ARE U HAPPY NOW ZOS IS DOING SOMETHING***Interview With Miat*** Lets Talk Add Ons, Cheating and Q/A

Doctordarkspawn

laced wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Shadzilla wrote: »

How do you sleep at night?

Likely well.

It's not cheating, or it'd be disallowed. Get over it, cry baby.

The above comment is an official statement. If you disagree with it, find another game if it bothers you so much.

At this time, is what was said, and more recently they have said they are looking into it again, so stop posting out of date information.

I didn't post it. I directed people to it. Get your facts straight. Stop posting misinformation please.

And I guarentee, they're looking at it not because they feel it is cheating, but to appease the screeching PVP minority.

People will whine about the truth. People will screech about 'it's actually cheating'. They should be disreguarded. ZOS will choose how to run things in it's house. You do not like it? Pull monitary support from the game. Those are your options. They were your options when sustain was nerfed, when a thousand other things are nerfed, and then when something is not changing. You can opt out, at any time.

Biro123

Blanco wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Blanco wrote: »

Not worth watching. I already know the add on IS cheating.

Ridiculous video. Ban the add on pls.

Read ZOS's official statement.

Your opinion has nothing to do with it. That is ZOS's stance. Those are the facts. Dont like it? You are free to take your buisness elsewhere.

It may be a fact that ZOS's official stance is that it's not cheating, but that does not change the actual reality that it is, in fact cheating.

Just so you know an official stance is actually a meaningless thing and usually has nothing to do with the truth.

The capability of the add on is far beyond what was intended with the game, so claiming it is cheating is entirely appropriate.

Personally, I would like to see it removed from the game altogether.

Lol.

So the definition of cheating is whatever you decide, not what the devs/referee's/IP Owners etc. decide?

You must be great fun in a football match.. "You can't wear those boots with studs on - its cheating - because I said so!"

Betsararie

Biro123 wrote: »

Blanco wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Blanco wrote: »

Not worth watching. I already know the add on IS cheating.

Ridiculous video. Ban the add on pls.

Read ZOS's official statement.

Your opinion has nothing to do with it. That is ZOS's stance. Those are the facts. Dont like it? You are free to take your buisness elsewhere.

It may be a fact that ZOS's official stance is that it's not cheating, but that does not change the actual reality that it is, in fact cheating.

Just so you know an official stance is actually a meaningless thing and usually has nothing to do with the truth.

The capability of the add on is far beyond what was intended with the game, so claiming it is cheating is entirely appropriate.

Personally, I would like to see it removed from the game altogether.

Lol.

So the definition of cheating is whatever you decide, not what the devs/referee's/IP Owners etc. decide?

You must be great fun in a football match.. "You can't wear those boots with studs on - its cheating - because I said so!"

Just look at what it does, you should be able to make up your mind as to if what it does is actually appropriate or not without having ZOS make the decision for you.

In your case, their decision favors your view because you probably need it by now so you definitely don't want to see it banned.

I think an addon like this is entirely inappropriate and does not favor high level competitive play. If you look at ESO as an e sport, which it's not, but it would be much better if it was, a feature like this add on would never be allowed, because it's a disgrace.

The console-ies (yes, I know that's not a term) are entirely correct when they're saying that the game is doing half of the work for us, if/when they're referencing this add on. An add on like this should not be available as a crutch to help players that don't deserve it.

Jaybe_Mawfaka

Make a macro addon as well and let it play the game for you if you are bad enough to rely on bs like this.
And potatoes on the forum who are already abusing the *** out of it will also tell you that it's okay to use macros because basically it is not cheating since zos didn't say so.
The addon is a mess that forces every player to use it eventually to be in equal conditions with people who are already using it. Why do you even pvp at this point if you do not like any challenge and you let the addon do the job for you? What's the whole point? I don't really get it.

Sylosi

It's clearly bypassing certain mechanics in the game (however cheesy those mechanics may be), so I'd say it was cheating, but then as I barely play this game any more, exactly because of things like this that show a laughable level of ineptitude / laziness / disregard from devs, it thankfully isn't much of an issue for me (not that I played NB much any way).

Derra

Enslaved wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Enslaved wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

thedude33 wrote: »

Malic wrote: »

The accent is perfect for this guy all things considered

I love it.

He sounds exactly how I imagined.

@Malic @thedude33 could you elaborate further what you mean by that?

Like a sad, lonely being that cannot be honest even in a video game, so he cheats.

There are "lonely being that cheats in videogame" accents? That´s new to me

Are you triggered because you sound similar

Why do i sound triggered to you?

I´m just trying to get the hillbilly logic that associates certain character traits/behavior and accent or tone of voice or anything else that a person has hardly any influence on.
"Oh you hear that? English is clearly not his first language - he must be a person of dubious morale."

Publius_Scipio

I can see many of you are blinded by emotions and are in no capacity to face the cunning and deadly Miat (pronounced My-At). You bested me in a 5 out of 5 duel to the death Miat. Your build with its healing and sustain is something even 17 year old Kodi can admire. My build had no chance, and you took the opportunity to strike like a viper waiting in the low-lying shrubbery.

No one, no man or woman, cat, lizard, elf, or buck tooth orc here in this thread or in all of Tamriel will be the one to send you to oblivion. And you know this Miat.... But at the same time anxiety grips your chest because you know something. You know of the PROPHECY whispered among the most ancient of argonians and the oldest of khajiit. The old fur balls on their 9th life. Their claws once ivory now yellowed with age like a nord's rotten teeth. These old cats and lizards whisper of the prophecy of the return of a great warrior! A warrior who walked Nirn long ago and who vanished without a trace. A warrior who sought to rid Mundus of dark magics and those who obey shadow.... "A blinding light will evaporate the dark, and the just shall walk Nirn free with a breeze carrying the aroma of sage".

Derra

laced wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

AzraelKrieg wrote: »

Ackwalan wrote: »

Wow, the first sentence he speaks makes him sound like an egotistical jerk.

Anybody that creates an addon to counter a type of play they don't like is pretty much exactly that.

Anyone who´s playstyle aims to kill opponents without chance to fight back is aswell - so what´s the point you´re trying to make?

Oh look, its the guy who doesnt know about the counters to stealth. Fancy that.

Please educate me

DDuke

eso_nya wrote: »

From december 2016.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/308947/miats-pvp-alerts/p4

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hi everyone,

Miat’s PVP Alerts addon was brought to our attention earlier in the week, and we’ve been running some internal tests on it to gauge functionality and impact. We are still evaluating this addon, and may make changes to the game’s API as a result. Here’s an explanation of how it works, and what it does and doesn’t do:

Miat’s PVP Alerts addon is built upon actions done by players that the combat log records. This includes sprinting, casting an ability, weapon swapping, drinking a potion, stealthing, etc. If a player executes any of those actions, basic messages are sent to the server and clients. This mod hooks into those notifications and filters them to give information about who is in the area. That info is then turned into either a KOS list determined by the player, a stealthier list, or simply an incremental value of players in the area (all are a rough estimation.)

The KOS list, specifically, is simply another layer on top of the above options, where the addon looks for specific players that you can choose to add to a list. When those players perform an action within your existing area of detection, you will be notified that they are in the area. You are not provided info on exactly where they are. Here are a few specific examples:

• If someone is in your existing area of detection and they fully enter stealth, the addon will notify you of the name of the player character that successfully went fully “hidden.”
• If someone is already stealthed and you’re traveling near then, or enter the area they were initially already stealthed in, you will not be notified of that player.
• If someone uses a Nightblade ability that results in them vanishing, they will not trigger the addon’s alert unless they enter the real “hidden” state (i.e. the eye on the HUD is closed).

Lastly this addon adds a kill spam list which shows you when someone has died in your existing area of detection, and to what ability. When you first get these messages, it simply says “Someone has died to Dark Flare.” When you start to get more information on the players around you, it adds that player name to the Saved Variables file for PVPAlerts.lua, then starts to add that information into your UI while playing.

Note that in all the above examples, you are not notified of exactly where the player is. This addon does not add a little blip to your map or compass, and does not give you an overlay that points out specifically where players are. This addon is not radar, a Doppler, or any other means of giving away another player’s exact position.

We want to thank everyone for sharing your concerns with us about this addon.

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hi everyone,

Are we allowed to use this addon until you decide upon a judgement?

At this time, we will not be taking action on accounts using this addon.

That's from December and the post doesn't even mention the addon showing unseen opponents' cast timers. Based on that, it is likely ZOS wasn't even aware of those (or the addon didn't provide them back in December 2016).


Here's a post (and context) from January this year from the ZOS person in charge of the game's API/addons:

Originally Posted by dorrino View Post
While you're here i have a question.

This change obviously severely limits the features of my addon. Can i (we) get an official stance on which parts of the addon are not desirable within ZOS design direction?

Even after the change i have some ideas how to still get the info i need for the addon to work. This will be noticeably more cumbersome and unreliable (probably) though.

In any case my intention is NOT to start an arms race with you guys. And i don't really want to spend hours of developing an intricate system to circumvent this change only to realize you will counter it with some other change

So, please, tell me which features are fine to have within your vision and which features will get an active countermeasures from you?

Thank you,

PS. Chip, in 5-10 min i'll PM you an exploit, that i found, that is very much possible with the current API. It technically allows to automate almost any players actions and CONDITIONALLY call protected and PRIVATE functions even when in combat. Cheers

ZOS_ChipHilseberg
I believe that it was anything that allows you to detect the presence or actions of a hostile player without having to see them.

http://www.esoui.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6745

Ulfgarde

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

I can see many of you are blinded by emotions and are in no capacity to face the cunning and deadly Miat (pronounced My-At). You bested me in a 5 out of 5 duel to the death Miat. Your build with its healing and sustain is something even 17 year old Kodi can admire. My build had no chance, and you took the opportunity to strike like a viper waiting in the low-lying shrubbery.

No one, no man or woman, cat, lizard, elf, or buck tooth orc here in this thread or in all of Tamriel will be the one to send you to oblivion. And you know this Miat.... But at the same time anxiety grips your chest because you know something. You know of the PROPHECY whispered among the most ancient of argonians and the oldest of khajiit. The old fur balls on their 9th life. Their claws once ivory now yellowed with age like a nord's rotten teeth. These old cats and lizards whisper of the prophecy of the return of a great warrior! A warrior who walked Nirn long ago and who vanished without a trace. A warrior who sought to rid Mundus of dark magics and those who obey shadow.... "A blinding light will evaporate the dark, and the just shall walk Nirn free with a breeze carrying the aroma of sage".

To be fair, you have to have very high AP to understand Miat. The addon itself is extremely subtle, and without a solid grasp of the API most of the features will go over a typical player's head. There’s also ZOS's self-destructing approach, which is deftly woven into their patch notes - their personal philosophy draws heavily from Dark Age of Camelot's unique game literature, for instance. The hardcore fans understand this stuff; they have the intellectual capacity to truly appreciate the depths of this unique addon, to realise that it's not just an addon - they say something deep about ZOS. As a consequence people who dislike Miat truly ARE idiots- of course they wouldn’t appreciate, for instance, the humour in the podcast with Miat, where he first mentions how his true name is ME-at which itself is a cryptic self-reference to how no one truly understands him. I’m smirking right now just imagining one of those addlepated simpletons scratching their heads in confusion as Miat's genius wit unfolds itself on their gaming monitors. What fools.. how I pity them.

And yes, by the way, i DO have a Miat's tattoo. And no, you cannot see it. It’s for the ladies’ eyes only- and even then they have to demonstrate that they’re within 1,000 AP points of my own (preferably lower) beforehand. Nothin personnel kid

Voxicity

Ulfgarde wrote: »

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

I can see many of you are blinded by emotions and are in no capacity to face the cunning and deadly Miat (pronounced My-At). You bested me in a 5 out of 5 duel to the death Miat. Your build with its healing and sustain is something even 17 year old Kodi can admire. My build had no chance, and you took the opportunity to strike like a viper waiting in the low-lying shrubbery.

No one, no man or woman, cat, lizard, elf, or buck tooth orc here in this thread or in all of Tamriel will be the one to send you to oblivion. And you know this Miat.... But at the same time anxiety grips your chest because you know something. You know of the PROPHECY whispered among the most ancient of argonians and the oldest of khajiit. The old fur balls on their 9th life. Their claws once ivory now yellowed with age like a nord's rotten teeth. These old cats and lizards whisper of the prophecy of the return of a great warrior! A warrior who walked Nirn long ago and who vanished without a trace. A warrior who sought to rid Mundus of dark magics and those who obey shadow.... "A blinding light will evaporate the dark, and the just shall walk Nirn free with a breeze carrying the aroma of sage".

To be fair, you have to have a very high AP to understand Miat. The addon itself is extremely subtle, and without a solid grasp of the API most of the features will go over a typical player's head. There’s also ZOS's self-destructing approach, which is deftly woven into their patch notes - their personal philosophy draws heavily from Dark Age of Camelot's unique game literature, for instance. The hardcore fans understand this stuff; they have the intellectual capacity to truly appreciate the depths of this unique addon, to realise that it's not just an addon - they say something deep about ZOS. As a consequence people who dislike Miat truly ARE idiots- of course they wouldn’t appreciate, for instance, the humour in the podcast with Miat, where he first mentions how his true name is ME-at which itself is a cryptic self-reference to how no one truly understands him. I’m smirking right now just imagining one of those addlepated simpletons scratching their heads in confusion as Miat's genius wit unfolds itself on their gaming monitors. What fools.. how I pity them.

And yes, by the way, i DO have a Miat's tattoo. And no, you cannot see it. It’s for the ladies’ eyes only- and even then they have to demonstrate that they’re within 1,000 AP points of my own (preferably lower) beforehand. Nothin personnel kid

I love you

DDuke

Defending this cheat 3rd party plugin as "not cheating because it is allowed by ZOS" is pretty much the same as defending exploiting like Sharpened Maces back in 2015-2016, Double Mundus, teleporting inside enemy keeps etc.

Were they "allowed" because people (pretty much half the player base) could use those exploits and didn't get banned/punished? Sure.

Doesn't change the fact that it was cheating in the essence, just like exploiting flaws in the game's API to create 3rd party plugins to cheat is.

Onigar

Just to be clear, Cheating is a bad thing.

Cheating is where someone ignores the rules and breaks the game in some way that gives them an advantage.

Using a published interface along with its functions to access/generate/manipulate information is not cheating

However, as we see in almost every main patch ZOS continually "tweaks" the game to realign the gameplay/gamebalance in the direction they see most appropriate.

I imagine that should ZOS consider the capabilities available through their customisable game interface allows players to gain advantages that ZOS do not consider appropriate then they will address the scope of the available functions and variables made available in the game interface.

Therefore the use of any addon programmed using the ZOS game interface is not cheating.


The second point is "do you believe players using a particular addon gain an unfair advantage?"

First you should understand the intention of ZOS was to present a game with a slightly raw interface such that the game community would be involved and through the development of addons create a wide variation of player interfaces.

The whole purpose of addons is to allow players to have an advantage of some sort or another.

I used the "...unfair advantage" above on purpose to highlight an important point. I see this is as more about "I don't want to use... / I don't want to have " so why can someone else.


In the end, whatever is used, it comes down simply to some players being better than others and a few being exceptional.

Lets just play the game, live or die and die again, again , ...

Publius_Scipio

Ulfgarde wrote: »

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

I can see many of you are blinded by emotions and are in no capacity to face the cunning and deadly Miat (pronounced My-At). You bested me in a 5 out of 5 duel to the death Miat. Your build with its healing and sustain is something even 17 year old Kodi can admire. My build had no chance, and you took the opportunity to strike like a viper waiting in the low-lying shrubbery.

No one, no man or woman, cat, lizard, elf, or buck tooth orc here in this thread or in all of Tamriel will be the one to send you to oblivion. And you know this Miat.... But at the same time anxiety grips your chest because you know something. You know of the PROPHECY whispered among the most ancient of argonians and the oldest of khajiit. The old fur balls on their 9th life. Their claws once ivory now yellowed with age like a nord's rotten teeth. These old cats and lizards whisper of the prophecy of the return of a great warrior! A warrior who walked Nirn long ago and who vanished without a trace. A warrior who sought to rid Mundus of dark magics and those who obey shadow.... "A blinding light will evaporate the dark, and the just shall walk Nirn free with a breeze carrying the aroma of sage".

To be fair, you have to have a very high AP to understand Miat. The addon itself is extremely subtle, and without a solid grasp of the API most of the features will go over a typical player's head. There’s also ZOS's self-destructing approach, which is deftly woven into their patch notes - their personal philosophy draws heavily from Dark Age of Camelot's unique game literature, for instance. The hardcore fans understand this stuff; they have the intellectual capacity to truly appreciate the depths of this unique addon, to realise that it's not just an addon - they say something deep about ZOS. As a consequence people who dislike Miat truly ARE idiots- of course they wouldn’t appreciate, for instance, the humour in the podcast with Miat, where he first mentions how his true name is ME-at which itself is a cryptic self-reference to how no one truly understands him. I’m smirking right now just imagining one of those addlepated simpletons scratching their heads in confusion as Miat's genius wit unfolds itself on their gaming monitors. What fools.. how I pity them.

And yes, by the way, i DO have a Miat's tattoo. And no, you cannot see it. It’s for the ladies’ eyes only- and even then they have to demonstrate that they’re within 1,000 AP points of my own (preferably lower) beforehand. Nothin personnel kid

I don't hate Miat. I don't think his addon allows for an even playing field if some use it and others don't. As far as your paragraph goes.... He is AD and I am DC, I am supposed to want to kick his a**.

Enslaved

Derra wrote: »

Enslaved wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Enslaved wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

thedude33 wrote: »

Malic wrote: »

The accent is perfect for this guy all things considered

I love it.

He sounds exactly how I imagined.

@Malic @thedude33 could you elaborate further what you mean by that?

Like a sad, lonely being that cannot be honest even in a video game, so he cheats.

There are "lonely being that cheats in videogame" accents? That´s new to me

Are you triggered because you sound similar

Why do i sound triggered to you?

I´m just trying to get the hillbilly logic that associates certain character traits/behavior and accent or tone of voice or anything else that a person has hardly any influence on.
"Oh you hear that? English is clearly not his first language - he must be a person of dubious morale."

"HurrDurr I'm not triggered"
"HurrDurr let me call you a hillbilly"
"HurrDurr muh engrish is fine"

Yeah.

Derra

DDuke wrote: »

Defending this cheat 3rd party plugin as "not cheating because it is allowed by ZOS" is pretty much the same as defending exploiting like Sharpened Maces back in 2015-2016, Double Mundus, teleporting inside enemy keeps etc.

Were they "allowed" because people (pretty much half the player base) could use those exploits and didn't get banned/punished? Sure.

Doesn't change the fact that it was cheating in the essence, just like exploiting flaws in the game's API to create 3rd party plugins to cheat is.

Nobody knows if it´s a flaw because zos does not communicate if it is or not.

Contrary to that zos very clearly communicated that teleporting into closed keeps, doublemundus, magelight from overlol bar was not intentional but unless done excessively would have no consequences.

They reviewed those actions and very clearly stated: Not OK.
They reviewed this addon and very clearly stated: ... - but we changed sth in the api.

Jayman1000

lol there are people who thinks addons are cheating? This video just covers the basics about what addons are, I was actually expecting something more. But if there really are a lot of players that have somehow got it into their heads that addons are cheating I guess this video is a nice way to explain to them how things really work.

In a nutshell: ZOS decided to give us all a very rudimentary and imo lacking UI, which is then really fortunate that they decided to support addons. Without addons playing this game would be a major pain in the kazoo.

DDuke

Derra wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Defending this cheat 3rd party plugin as "not cheating because it is allowed by ZOS" is pretty much the same as defending exploiting like Sharpened Maces back in 2015-2016, Double Mundus, teleporting inside enemy keeps etc.

Were they "allowed" because people (pretty much half the player base) could use those exploits and didn't get banned/punished? Sure.

Doesn't change the fact that it was cheating in the essence, just like exploiting flaws in the game's API to create 3rd party plugins to cheat is.

Nobody knows if it´s a flaw because zos does not communicate if it is or not.

Contrary to that zos very clearly communicated that teleporting into closed keeps, doublemundus, magelight from overlol bar was not intentional but unless done excessively would have no consequences.

They reviewed those actions and very clearly stated: Not OK.
They reviewed this addon and very clearly stated: ... - but we changed sth in the api.

And how long did it take for ZOS to communicate regarding other exploits (anyone with common sense can tell this is one)?

Yeah, months - and some of those exploits functioned for many, many months even after they were supposedly "fixed". Double mundus for example was "fixed" in 2016, but still functioned until Homestead patch 2017.


Hopefully we'll have a better reply on this topic soon as Gina posted that this has been brought to devs' attention.

Jayman1000

Jaimeh wrote: »

... having an addon that automatically activates synergies, and although it’s a hyperbole, all these things make me wonder what’s next - having an addon that plays the game for us?

No addon activates abilities automatically, so why are you bringing this up as if drawing a comparison to existing addons?

DDuke

Jayman1000 wrote: »

lol there are people who thinks addons are cheating? This video just covers the basics about what addons are, I was actually expecting something more. But if there really are a lot of players that have somehow got it into their heads that addons are cheating I guess this video is a nice way to explain to them how things really work.

In a nutshell: ZOS decided to give us all a very rudimentary and imo lacking UI, which is then really fortunate that they decided to support addons. Without addons playing this game would be a major pain in the kazoo.

You know, I used to think like that - and I still love most of my addons. But exploitative ones like Miat's (and private ones utilizing the same flaws in the game's API) have poisoned my conception of addons in multiplayer games forever.

This is what Miat's addon allows you to do:
https://youtu.be/zaB-sXFKHdE


It gives you opponents' cast timers even when you can't see them (not part of the base game/design intent obviously) and pretty much ruins any build utilizing cast time abilities.

Ulfgarde

Btw, for anyone wondering, Miat's will have its first anniversary in 2 months. This means it's been out for 10 months to the public.

If ZOS was truly concerned about this, they would've responded much faster and with much more impact. Not to mention the addon has been in use for much longer than that. Again, not a good thing, but something to consider if you truly think this is a "cheat".

DDuke

Ulfgarde wrote: »

Btw, for anyone wondering, Miat's will have its first anniversary in 2 months. This means it's been out for 10 months to the public.

If ZOS was truly concerned about this, they would've responded much faster and with much more impact. Not to mention the addon has been in use for much longer than that. Again, not a good thing, but something to consider if you truly think this is a "cheat".

Something to consider: it took ZOS over half a year to address sharpened maces exploit too, which made the game unplayable for heavy armor builds (because they didn't have any armor thanks to that) - just like Miat's is currently making the game unplayable for bow builds, dark flare magplars & making any ZOS attempt at making Crystal Blast a thing futile.


The only thing ZOS's slow response time says is that they're slow at responding to cheats/exploits.

Biro123

Blanco wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

Blanco wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Blanco wrote: »

Not worth watching. I already know the add on IS cheating.

Ridiculous video. Ban the add on pls.

Read ZOS's official statement.

Your opinion has nothing to do with it. That is ZOS's stance. Those are the facts. Dont like it? You are free to take your buisness elsewhere.

It may be a fact that ZOS's official stance is that it's not cheating, but that does not change the actual reality that it is, in fact cheating.

Just so you know an official stance is actually a meaningless thing and usually has nothing to do with the truth.

The capability of the add on is far beyond what was intended with the game, so claiming it is cheating is entirely appropriate.

Personally, I would like to see it removed from the game altogether.

Lol.

So the definition of cheating is whatever you decide, not what the devs/referee's/IP Owners etc. decide?

You must be great fun in a football match.. "You can't wear those boots with studs on - its cheating - because I said so!"

Just look at what it does, you should be able to make up your mind as to if what it does is actually appropriate or not without having ZOS make the decision for you.

In your case, their decision favors your view because you probably need it by now so you definitely don't want to see it banned.

I think an addon like this is entirely inappropriate and does not favor high level competitive play. If you look at ESO as an e sport, which it's not, but it would be much better if it was, a feature like this add on would never be allowed, because it's a disgrace.

The console-ies (yes, I know that's not a term) are entirely correct when they're saying that the game is doing half of the work for us, if/when they're referencing this add on. An add on like this should not be available as a crutch to help players that don't deserve it.

Wow, @Blanco, I've never seen such ignorance. I know what it does. I can and have made up my mind - but regardless of what my mind decides - whether something is cheating or not is the decision of the Devs - not me.

Where did I say their decision favours my view.? I have said repeatedly that I disagree with the concept of it - and that I think the Devs should re-asses their API. In fact I said it just a few posts earlier in this very thread. For what its worth, my main is a DW magsorc - relying on frags for its main source of damage - one of the main abilities that Miats alerts people to. I also don't rely on active defences - the very kind that Miats helps. You couldn't be more wrong about this BS you are making up about me.

Again, I agree that the addon isn't appropriate - just like some people may think that wearing running spikes isn't appropriate to give an advantage in a 100m race... but guess what IT ISN'T UP TO ME, and IT ISN'T UP TO YOU to determine what is within the rules and what isn't.
The fact is that this IS allowed, so:

PLEASE STOP ACCUSING PEOPLE OF CHEATING WHEN THEY ARE NOT.

Grabmoore

It is Cheating. Just because ZOS are unable to change the API for it, doesn't mean anything. They tried to change it and saw which other add ons would suffer ( f.e. all other buff and damage addons).

Skullstachio

Maybe if Zenimax were smarter, they could have made the terms of use & other acceptable terms policies on the PC/Mac version of ESO similar to that of sony's policies, you know, preventing the use of external assets & other similar things from being used like they did for Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim on PS4.

Ulfgarde

DDuke wrote: »

Ulfgarde wrote: »

Btw, for anyone wondering, Miat's will have its first anniversary in 2 months. This means it's been out for 10 months to the public.

If ZOS was truly concerned about this, they would've responded much faster and with much more impact. Not to mention the addon has been in use for much longer than that. Again, not a good thing, but something to consider if you truly think this is a "cheat".

Something to consider: it took ZOS over half a year to address sharpened maces exploit too, which made the game unplayable for heavy armor builds (because they didn't have any armor thanks to that) - just like Miat's is currently making the game unplayable for bow builds, dark flare magplars & making any ZOS attempt at making Crystal Blast a thing futile.


The only thing ZOS's slow response time says is that they're slow at responding to cheats/exploits.

Crystal Blast's design is pretty weak on itself, considering its magicka cost, interruptibility, and cast time. I don't think that Miat's would make a difference to that against a formidable player. Otherwise you make a valid point.

Miat's addon is the result of something permitted by ZOS in their API. It cannot be accurately defined as cheating, but it is such an unfair advantage in competitive play (which is dwindling so much at this stage of the game) and something needs to be done.

Again, communication is key to this, and I feel as though ZOS's communication is severely lacking. Should Miat's be allowed? Hell no, but if their response time is slower than more than an entire year, then they chance on the sake of the player base, and ANY decent gaming company, especially an AAA corporation at that, knows much better than to play such high stakes.

thedude33

I'm concerned

Ulfgarde wrote: »

Btw, for anyone wondering, Miat's will have its first anniversary in 2 months. This means it's been out for 10 months to the public.

If ZOS was truly concerned about this, they would've responded much faster and with much more impact. Not to mention the addon has been in use for much longer than that. Again, not a good thing, but something to consider if you truly think this is a "cheat".

Being concerned about it is one thing. Being willing to put the effort and manpower towards solving the problem is another. Doesn't mean ZoS likes the idea of Miats, just that they don't have the resources to deal with it.

Jayman1000

DDuke wrote: »

Jayman1000 wrote: »

lol there are people who thinks addons are cheating? This video just covers the basics about what addons are, I was actually expecting something more. But if there really are a lot of players that have somehow got it into their heads that addons are cheating I guess this video is a nice way to explain to them how things really work.

In a nutshell: ZOS decided to give us all a very rudimentary and imo lacking UI, which is then really fortunate that they decided to support addons. Without addons playing this game would be a major pain in the kazoo.

You know, I used to think like that - and I still love most of my addons. But exploitative ones like Miat's (and private ones utilizing the same flaws in the game's API) have poisoned my conception of addons in multiplayer games forever.

This is what Miat's addon allows you to do:
https://youtu.be/zaB-sXFKHdE


It gives you opponents' cast timers even when you can't see them (not part of the base game/design intent obviously) and pretty much ruins any build utilizing cast time abilities.

I agree that I don't like how this work. But this is how ZOS have decided it should be, ZOS have intentionally let this go on, they are not considering this a cheat.

If we could take the thought a bit further though: consider that invisible archer player in the video you linked. How can he become invisible from such close distance and then vanish in a cloud of smoke? I mean what is the explanation that he is invisible? Is he casting an invisible spell on himself? Clearly from that range it would be impossible to completely conceal yourself as to become 100% invisible. But that is exactly what is showed in the video (I don't like that either btw). That could be perceived as cheating too, but it isn't because it's part of the game, it's intentional.

Publius_Scipio

Alpha-Lupi wrote: »

Maybe if Zenimax were smarter, they could have made the terms of use & other acceptable terms policies on the PC/Mac version of ESO similar to that of sony's policies, you know, preventing the use of external assets & other similar things from being used like they did for Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim on PS4.

You need to account for the fact that players on PC are accustomed to (for ages now) and in many cases demand the ability to mod, addons, customize, etc. If I remember correctly Paul Sage lost the battle in his valiant effort to have all API closed to players because many players (and addon creators) flipped out upon reading the announcement right before official game launch.

I would argue that PC and console players mindsets are different in many ways.

Ulfgarde

thedude33 wrote: »

I'm concerned

Ulfgarde wrote: »

Btw, for anyone wondering, Miat's will have its first anniversary in 2 months. This means it's been out for 10 months to the public.

If ZOS was truly concerned about this, they would've responded much faster and with much more impact. Not to mention the addon has been in use for much longer than that. Again, not a good thing, but something to consider if you truly think this is a "cheat".

Being concerned about it is one thing. Being willing to put the effort and manpower towards solving the problem is another. Doesn't mean ZoS likes the idea of Miats, just that they don't have the resources to deal with it.

Again, a valid point. What could bridge between this being simply a "point" and an actual underlying issue is ZOS and their communication.

Even if it's bad PR, you're better off admitting to some consistent problems in your game community and making attempts at the very least than ignoring them, not answering serious questions, and releasing new content for the hopes of more subs.