PTS Update 16 - Feedback Thread for Dragonknights

Stamden

Please, please just make Inferno the AoE that it should be. One can be an DoT AoE, one can be a HoT AoE. It would improve the DK class sooo much..

Kilandros

@ZOS_GinaBruno any chance we could get a Developer response on why they're resistant to returning Inferno and morphs back to an AoE like it was at launch?

Glory

My thoughts regarding the Clockwork changes, and the current state of DK skills. I like a lot of the balance changes, particularly to Petrify!

Cauterize/Flames of Oblivion:

Kilandros wrote: »

Solution: Make Cauterize an AoE HoT that procs on nearby allies and yourself (5-8m) every second for 15 seconds. Cap it at 3-6 targets. I guarantee you this ability will start seeing use in both PvE and PvP. If someone's low on health, I can move my DK butt next to them and provide some cover healing. That would be cool. That feels like what a DK would bring to the table.

I agree with the above, I think a HoT that is reliable is important. A HoT/DoT for Cauterize/FoO every 1-2 seconds for your group within a radius (although I believe that the radius should be more around 8-10m if it is a smaller HoT) would improve the skill significantly. It is frustrating to use a skill that you literally have no control of after you activate it, and knowing that something consistent will happen instead of a weird mechanic would be great.

Petrify/Stonefist:

Kilandros wrote: »

The main issue here isn't just that these two abilities are redundant with each other (two ranged CC's, woo!), it's that one ability (Petrify) is strictly superior to the other (Stonefist). Neither ability will ever be used in competitive PvE except perhaps for learning in VMA, so I'm focusing on the PvP aspect. In PvP, when it comes to CCs, reliability is key--that's why Petrify has been king for so long. As long as my target doesn't have CC immunity and is in range, Petrify will land. Stonefist, on the other hand, sacrifices that clutch reliability for some extra damage. Damage that, honestly, I don't really need from my CC. I need my CC to CC. Stonefist just isn't worth the magicka costs against someone who dodges frequently or uses Miat's or permablocks. So why would I ever slot Stonefist? The few people that do are zerg surfers who spam it simply because it's the longest-ranged DK ability.

The Developers seem to think that there is some situation in which Stonefist is advantageous--there isn't. There's no need to "further differentiate" these abilities; one is good and the other is worse. No good PvPer will use Stonefist over Petrify.

Solution: Rework Stonefist. Petrify is in a good place and is the only ranged single-target CC that DK needs. There are so many defensive buffs in game that DK could really use right now (Major Evasion, Protection, Vitality, etc.), consider changing Stonefist to be a defensive/utility buff so DK can get some active defense back.

I generally agree that both skills are redundant. I prefer the Clockwork City updated version of Petrify over Stonefist (live Petrify is annoying often because it's free CC immunity). I think reworking the skill would be a great option. I don't think anyone uses the heal version due to its lack of reliability.

My concise thoughts would be: great change to Petrify! Now make Stone Fist something different, DKs would love access to one of the Buffs Kilandros mentions above, and possibly enjoy an entirely new rework of the skill itself (Stone Giant as a ground pound?!).

Shifting Standard:

Kilandros wrote: »

Solution: Reduce the cost back down to 200 Ultimate. The loss of uptime is a good tradeoff for being able to re-position this multiple times.

Pr0Skygon wrote: »

Shifting Standard: My favorite change of this morph, beside from the infinite shifting time, is how the skill now last for 25 freaking seconds. That's 10 more seconds. But here's the kicker. For PvE, Standard of Might will still be a better morph, since 12% more overall damage is a lot better than 10 seconds of standard. Also, you don't really need to re-locate your standard in PvE, since most bosses don't move that much. So Shifting Standard by default is for PvP. And for PvP, 250 is quite for this kind of ultimate. Another downside is that you don't gain ultimate while this skill is active, so that means 25 seconds without any ultimate regen, that's a dead flag for DK, which depends a lot on ultimate to survive.

At this point in the meta I don't see there even being a place for this skill. Not preferred in PvE, in PvP it now costs more for the benefit of having to use a GCD to change the place of it.
Here is an overall analysis/comparison:

• It does awful damage. Eye of the Storm is significantly better in dealing damage.
• It costs 250 ultimate for a ground placed AoE ultimate. Compare this to Sleet Storm: player casted, 200 cost, also gives Major Protection for all your allies. (Could also compare to EoTS).
• It's main benefit over other ultimates in the Major Defile AoE that can be dropped on the ground. You know what also does that? A skill on Warden that also heals your allies.
• As Pr0Skygon mentioned, you don't generate ultimate for this duration. What?

I think Shifting Standard needs a significant rework. I would say something appropriate would be putting the stand on your back (PBAoE) for the duration of SoM and significantly increasing the damage (less than EoTS but more closely matched to Sleet). Then people may benefit from using it. May.

Following are things I think should be looked into.
Other Skills

Dragon Scale

Pr0Skygon wrote: »

Also, a little off topic, but please god damn fix the dragon scale. It's utterly worthless now. At least Warden's Shimmering Shield gives them Major Heroism, Dragon Scale on the other hand gives Minor Ward, which is too situational at best, and totally non existent at worst.

Agree with the above. Warden's Shimmering Shield is an example of how Dragon Scale should be. The cost of Dragon Scale is atrocious compared to the Warden's shield, not even considering the Magicka return on getting hit.
Analysis:

I'm not going to ask for Major Heroism or something on Dragon Scale, etc. I just want everyone to acknowledge the fact that Dragon Scale cost is significantly worse than Crystallized Shield. Not even considering duration, access to Major Heroism, etc..

I'd propose any combination of: decreasing cost, increasing duration, adding more potent secondary effects, etc.

Ash Cloud
No major data to support this opinion, but I rarely see this skill being used outside of PvE DPS (Eruption). I would suggest giving something slightly more potent to Cinder Storm. Perhaps a significantly larger AoE or something? Just a thought!

Cheers.

Riggsy

As a life-long stamdk I've given up on stam ever getting some love from the devs. When 3/4 of my bar is non-class skills I think that speaks to the flaws with the class. That said, mag dks are in a rough spot, for other reasons, so any positive class change is good news.

Kilandros

Glory wrote: »

My thoughts regarding the Clockwork changes, and the current state of DK skills. I like a lot of the balance changes, particularly to Petrify!

Cauterize/Flames of Oblivion:

Kilandros wrote: »

Solution: Make Cauterize an AoE HoT that procs on nearby allies and yourself (5-8m) every second for 15 seconds. Cap it at 3-6 targets. I guarantee you this ability will start seeing use in both PvE and PvP. If someone's low on health, I can move my DK butt next to them and provide some cover healing. That would be cool. That feels like what a DK would bring to the table.

I agree with the above, I think a HoT that is reliable is important. A HoT/DoT for Cauterize/FoO every 1-2 seconds for your group within a radius (although I believe that the radius should be more around 8-10m if it is a smaller HoT) would improve the skill significantly. It is frustrating to use a skill that you literally have no control of after you activate it, and knowing that something consistent will happen instead of a weird mechanic would be great.

Petrify/Stonefist:

Kilandros wrote: »

The main issue here isn't just that these two abilities are redundant with each other (two ranged CC's, woo!), it's that one ability (Petrify) is strictly superior to the other (Stonefist). Neither ability will ever be used in competitive PvE except perhaps for learning in VMA, so I'm focusing on the PvP aspect. In PvP, when it comes to CCs, reliability is key--that's why Petrify has been king for so long. As long as my target doesn't have CC immunity and is in range, Petrify will land. Stonefist, on the other hand, sacrifices that clutch reliability for some extra damage. Damage that, honestly, I don't really need from my CC. I need my CC to CC. Stonefist just isn't worth the magicka costs against someone who dodges frequently or uses Miat's or permablocks. So why would I ever slot Stonefist? The few people that do are zerg surfers who spam it simply because it's the longest-ranged DK ability.

The Developers seem to think that there is some situation in which Stonefist is advantageous--there isn't. There's no need to "further differentiate" these abilities; one is good and the other is worse. No good PvPer will use Stonefist over Petrify.

Solution: Rework Stonefist. Petrify is in a good place and is the only ranged single-target CC that DK needs. There are so many defensive buffs in game that DK could really use right now (Major Evasion, Protection, Vitality, etc.), consider changing Stonefist to be a defensive/utility buff so DK can get some active defense back.

I generally agree that both skills are redundant. I prefer the Clockwork City updated version of Petrify over Stonefist (live Petrify is annoying often because it's free CC immunity). I think reworking the skill would be a great option. I don't think anyone uses the heal version due to its lack of reliability.

My concise thoughts would be: great change to Petrify! Now make Stone Fist something different, DKs would love access to one of the Buffs Kilandros mentions above, and possibly enjoy an entirely new rework of the skill itself (Stone Giant as a ground pound?!).

Shifting Standard:

Kilandros wrote: »

Solution: Reduce the cost back down to 200 Ultimate. The loss of uptime is a good tradeoff for being able to re-position this multiple times.

Pr0Skygon wrote: »

Shifting Standard: My favorite change of this morph, beside from the infinite shifting time, is how the skill now last for 25 freaking seconds. That's 10 more seconds. But here's the kicker. For PvE, Standard of Might will still be a better morph, since 12% more overall damage is a lot better than 10 seconds of standard. Also, you don't really need to re-locate your standard in PvE, since most bosses don't move that much. So Shifting Standard by default is for PvP. And for PvP, 250 is quite for this kind of ultimate. Another downside is that you don't gain ultimate while this skill is active, so that means 25 seconds without any ultimate regen, that's a dead flag for DK, which depends a lot on ultimate to survive.

At this point in the meta I don't see there even being a place for this skill. Not preferred in PvE, in PvP it now costs more for the benefit of having to use a GCD to change the place of it.
Here is an overall analysis/comparison:

• It does awful damage. Eye of the Storm is significantly better in dealing damage.
• It costs 250 ultimate for a ground placed AoE ultimate. Compare this to Sleet Storm: player casted, 200 cost, also gives Major Protection for all your allies. (Could also compare to EoTS).
• It's main benefit over other ultimates in the Major Defile AoE that can be dropped on the ground. You know what also does that? A skill on Warden that also heals your allies.
• As Pr0Skygon mentioned, you don't generate ultimate for this duration. What?

I think Shifting Standard needs a significant rework. I would say something appropriate would be putting the stand on your back (PBAoE) for the duration of SoM and significantly increasing the damage (less than EoTS but more closely matched to Sleet). Then people may benefit from using it. May.

Following are things I think should be looked into.
Other Skills

Dragon Scale

Pr0Skygon wrote: »

Also, a little off topic, but please god damn fix the dragon scale. It's utterly worthless now. At least Warden's Shimmering Shield gives them Major Heroism, Dragon Scale on the other hand gives Minor Ward, which is too situational at best, and totally non existent at worst.

Agree with the above. Warden's Shimmering Shield is an example of how Dragon Scale should be. The cost of Dragon Scale is atrocious compared to the Warden's shield, not even considering the Magicka return on getting hit.
Analysis:

I'm not going to ask for Major Heroism or something on Dragon Scale, etc. I just want everyone to acknowledge the fact that Dragon Scale cost is significantly worse than Crystallized Shield. Not even considering duration, access to Major Heroism, etc..

I'd propose any combination of: decreasing cost, increasing duration, adding more potent secondary effects, etc.

Ash Cloud
No major data to support this opinion, but I rarely see this skill being used outside of PvE DPS (Eruption). I would suggest giving something slightly more potent to Cinder Storm. Perhaps a significantly larger AoE or something? Just a thought!

Cheers.

Great points and well said, Glory

Savos_Saren

Please, for all that is Fus Ro Dah, change Inferno and it's morphs back to the original state.


Who cares if Cauterize can now heal the casting DK if the heal is once every several seconds with a *chance* that it may heal the caster or some random person??? Not even intelligent heals.

The distance of the Inferno burst heals/damage is awkwardly placed within the mDK's ranged abilities (28 meter destroy abilities) and melee abilities (5 meter burning embers, 8 meter whips).

For those of you who are newer to the game: Inferno used to be an enveloping AOE somewhat similar in design as a Sorc's Hurricane/Lightning Storm.

Anti_Virus

Please make GDB a stam morph I'm tired of running 2h on my builds.

Joy_Division

DK used to be my favorite class to play. I only use it as an occasional PvE DPS class (and even that's tough now because it's a melee class that's outclassed by stam builds). I don't find them fun to play anymore.

• I *really* dislike the changes ZoS made to Inferno way back in the 1.6 patch. I am absolutely flabbergasted how anyone though stripping away what was unique and flavorful skill and then making into a generic DoT that performs the exact same function as Mage Light was something that would make the class more appealing to play. It's been nearly three years, but I still remember watching ESO live and hearing Wrobel say they were changing the ability because it wasn't used. THAT WAS WRONG. We used it all the time, it was a mainstay of DK DPS. I know the new Inferno is a good single target DPS skill, that's not the point. It's generic, boring, and a shadow of what it once was.
• I also really dislike how Standard has become so overshadowed by the Destro ultimate. I get it, in a stationary pure DPS rotation, I know Standard is a little more efficient, but your trials have moved away from those fights and 9 times out of 10 the destro ultiamte is better because it quickly burns down adds in addition to covering a much larger area. In PvP, even inexperienced players can easily step away from it and it's once unique contribution of applying major defile is now done by a spammable Warden skill that also heals allies. I know you're trying to make Shifting more appealing, but as long as Wardens exist, DK ulti regen is halted, and it costs 250 [wow!], there are much better options. If I'm a DPS, I'm dropping a destro or Leaping. If I'm a tank, I'm using Spellwall. This ultimate is obsolete and needs a makeover.
• I feel in PvP if I don't make a perma-block whip spam build, I can't compete. Reflective Scales, Cinderstorm, and dynamic ult regen were ways DKs could defend themselves without resorting to perma-block nonsense. Now scales was overnerfed and so many things aren't reflected anymore, the defensive functions of cinderstrom has been removed, and DKs are the worst ultiamte regeners mean go farm sturdy gear and get your sword and shield because otherwise you're toast. Yes the perma-block whip in your face build is solid, but I felt very frustrated moving away from that archetype because the DKs non block oriented defensive toolkit is largely gone.

I would really like it if the DKs morphs gave DKs one of two vectors to follow: either the swift, nimble, damage route (because dragons are this too!) or the rugged, stand their ground, tough as Earth route. It would not only make for more options but get rid of a lot of the perma-block troll builds in cyrodiil.

As far as the changes for update 16, what @Glory wrote covers most of what I think needs to be said. I'll add:

• Cauterize is better, sure, but it's hard to use a precious bar slot on a heal I can't control. Make it (and the Inferno morph) AoE as it once was and I would prefer it perform a different buff than what any class can get from the Mage's Guild or a potion do DKs can be a little unique.
• Shitting is easier to use. It's still outclassed by alternative and way too expensive for what it does.
• Petrify was already a strong skill and it's better. Nothing much to add except I agree with the other posters who feel the Stonefist is a clear lesser option and ought to be reworked.

IxSTALKERxI

Cauterize feedback:

Increase the target cap to 2 targets. Make it tick every 3 seconds instead of every 5. Then you might have a winner.

Fireball(s) heals yourself or up to 2 nearby allies every 3 seconds for 15 seconds.

Kilandros

IxSTALKERxI wrote: »

Cauterize feedback:

Increase the target cap to 2 targets. Make it tick every 3 seconds instead of every 5. Then you might have a winner.

Fireball(s) heals yourself or up to 2 nearby allies every 3 seconds for 15 seconds.

I really think it just needs to be a flat AoE, even if it's capped at 3 targets. The benefit of a pure AoE compared to just having the fireball target more people is that I can move the AoE over to an area or a person that I want to heal. Increasing the number of fireballs is still unreliable; I can't control it at all.

ZOS - Inferno really needs to be changed into an AoE. Only an AoE will give us the control over the ability that we need to make it useful. Don't half ass it. Let's try it DURING A TEST CYCLE LIKE THIS and we can balance it.

Vynn

I personally like the change to Petrify. However if the goal is to buff unused abilities where is the Shattering Rocks love? My biggest problem with petrify, which will still be a problem in the upcoming patch, is that it does nothing but burn magicka if someone becomes CC immune for any reason. At least let the secondary effect occur that happens when the "stun effect ends". Shatrocks can have an aoe 50% off balance proc, fossilized can immobilize. Stone fist still does some damage and gives a minor buff. Just a waste of magicka that DKs can ill afford with our high ability costs.

Btw, major expedition should be on wings, not chains. Chains needs a range buff, not a speed effect after the gap has been closed.

theamazingx

Vynn wrote: »

Btw, major expedition should be on wings, not chains. Chains needs a range buff, not a speed effect after the gap has been closed.

Couldn't agree more on this. Beyond balance, it just makes sense.

lucky_Sage

I like the idea of stone fist a ground pound that's ets enemies of balance would make magdk rotation a lot more enjoyable
and flame of oblivions needs to be a aoe dks are the aoe magicka class
make chains work and make it where magdks don't need vampire as a crutch

lucky_Sage

Vynn wrote: »

I personally like the change to Petrify. However if the goal is to buff unused abilities where is the Shattering Rocks love? My biggest problem with petrify, which will still be a problem in the upcoming patch, is that it does nothing but burn magicka if someone becomes CC immune for any reason. At least let the secondary effect occur that happens when the "stun effect ends". Shatrocks can have an aoe 50% off balance proc, fossilized can immobilize. Stone fist still does some damage and gives a minor buff. Just a waste of magicka that DKs can ill afford with our high ability costs.

Btw, major expedition should be on wings, not chains. Chains needs a range buff, not a speed effect after the gap has been closed.

I actually use shattering rocks because I like the of balance chance over root even though it should be higher chance

Xsorus

Stonefist - remove the knockdown, make it explode your dots.

Give two morphs, one that when it explodes your dots it causes increased damage to your next 5 flame damage attacks

The other morph heals every one around the explosion area and increases in strength based on the amount detonated.

Cauterize should become a purge that cost health initially but applies a long duration hot.

For example purge 3 effects but cost 2k health and applies a 6k heal over time for 8 seconds.

Fuxo

I really hope that the changes to Petrify (and Rune Prison) will be reverted. Instead, disorient should only be broken with damage from direct attacks.

dirtykdx

Xsorus wrote: »

Cauterize should become a purge that cost health initially but applies a long duration hot.

For example purge 3 effects but cost 2k health and applies a 6k heal over time for 8 seconds.

While I'd love to see that, I can't think of a skill that costs one resource, only to give back more than it used over a duration. It'd be much more likely to cost magicka. And combining a hot with a purge, I imagine that would be knocked to 2 effects -- or the purge would be like purify with a synergy to use the purge.

Glory

dirtykdx wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Cauterize should become a purge that cost health initially but applies a long duration hot.

For example purge 3 effects but cost 2k health and applies a 6k heal over time for 8 seconds.

While I'd love to see that, I can't think of a skill that costs one resource, only to give back more than it used over a duration. It'd be much more likely to cost magicka. And combining a hot with a purge, I imagine that would be knocked to 2 effects -- or the purge would be like purify with a synergy to use the purge.

The new NB heal does exactly that. Also, a skill doesn't have to be already in game to be worth suggesting (it makes it a unique skill!).

Also, combining a HoT with a purge is exactly what two of the three (four if you include Cloak DoT "purge" effect) are - purify (5 effects) and the Purge: Cleanse morph.

dirtykdx

Glory wrote: »

dirtykdx wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Cauterize should become a purge that cost health initially but applies a long duration hot.

For example purge 3 effects but cost 2k health and applies a 6k heal over time for 8 seconds.

While I'd love to see that, I can't think of a skill that costs one resource, only to give back more than it used over a duration. It'd be much more likely to cost magicka. And combining a hot with a purge, I imagine that would be knocked to 2 effects -- or the purge would be like purify with a synergy to use the purge.

The new NB heal does exactly that. Also, a skill doesn't have to be already in game to be worth suggesting (it makes it a unique skill!).

Also, combining a HoT with a purge is exactly what two of the three (four if you include Cloak DoT "purge" effect) are - purify (5 effects) and the Purge: Cleanse morph.

Cringed as I submitted that actually cause I thought of the new NB skill. Still not going to hold my breath for an essentially free health for purge + hot though.


About the Inferno talk:
Was talking in discord and someone linked me to a video of how it used to work, and I found the skill specs online from way back. Just wanted to say, the toggle w/ cost yet still OP nature of it wasn't what I was picturing for it, but rather just the still 15 second duration AOE (even the same animation would be fine) with the DOT/HOT would be excellent. The 5m radius of old should even be fine on the DPS side, as that's claw range, but backing up to whip range would be too far out. I would like to see 8m on the heal though. If the DPS version still scales with spell & weapon damage, that'd be even better to still give a class skill for stam dk.

Xsorus

dirtykdx wrote: »

Glory wrote: »

dirtykdx wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Cauterize should become a purge that cost health initially but applies a long duration hot.

For example purge 3 effects but cost 2k health and applies a 6k heal over time for 8 seconds.

While I'd love to see that, I can't think of a skill that costs one resource, only to give back more than it used over a duration. It'd be much more likely to cost magicka. And combining a hot with a purge, I imagine that would be knocked to 2 effects -- or the purge would be like purify with a synergy to use the purge.

The new NB heal does exactly that. Also, a skill doesn't have to be already in game to be worth suggesting (it makes it a unique skill!).

Also, combining a HoT with a purge is exactly what two of the three (four if you include Cloak DoT "purge" effect) are - purify (5 effects) and the Purge: Cleanse morph.

Cringed as I submitted that actually cause I thought of the new NB skill. Still not going to hold my breath for an essentially free health for purge + hot though.


About the Inferno talk:
Was talking in discord and someone linked me to a video of how it used to work, and I found the skill specs online from way back. Just wanted to say, the toggle w/ cost yet still OP nature of it wasn't what I was picturing for it, but rather just the still 15 second duration AOE (even the same animation would be fine) with the DOT/HOT would be excellent. The 5m radius of old should even be fine on the DPS side, as that's claw range, but backing up to whip range would be too far out. I would like to see 8m on the heal though. If the DPS version still scales with spell & weapon damage, that'd be even better to still give a class skill for stam dk.

Its not just the new skill

Siphoning Strikes for example cost a certain amount of mana and gives back more when it ends.

In this case you're using Health as the resource.

Gan Xing

Pr0Skygon wrote: »

After 3 hours of testing:

Petrify: I think the change is a right step in the right direction. However, just ask everyone else, this new Petrify makes Stone Fist look like a cheap knock off. If you're going to change Petrify, then also make some changes to Stone Fist. For example, make Stone Fist become a melee CC stamDK?

Cauterize: Still utterly useless in both PvE and PvP. Everything about this skill go against any helpful healing skill. The fact that you cannot fully control the skill is laughable, it's even worse than Mutagen. The cooldown is way too long. Templar's Healing Ritual with 1.5s delay is already deemed useless, let alone 5 secs. I either proc the heal at full health, or just die right before the heal proc. This skill is hands down the worst healing skill possible.

Shifting Standard: My favorite change of this morph, beside from the infinite shifting time, is how the skill now last for 25 freaking seconds. That's 10 more seconds. But here's the kicker. For PvE, Standard of Might will still be a better morph, since 12% more overall damage is a lot better than 10 seconds of standard. Also, you don't really need to re-locate your standard in PvE, since most bosses don't move that much. So Shifting Standard by default is for PvP. And for PvP, 250 is quite for this kind of ultimate. Another downside is that you don't gain ultimate while this skill is active, so that means 25 seconds without any ultimate regen, that's a dead flag for DK, which depends a lot on ultimate to survive.

Also, a little off topic, but please god damn fix the dragon scale. It's utterly worthless now. At least Warden's Shimmering Shield gives them Major Heroism, Dragon Scale on the other hand gives Minor Ward, which is too situational at best, and totally non existent at worst.

Yea, I switched out of Dragon scale in favor of Immovable (and morphs)
Petrify is too much like Stone Fist. Perhaps make stonefist a stam/magicka execute? (but then you will need to adjust the Warden's execute... bear is pointless in PvP)

reduce the cost of Shifting Standard and allow slower ult regen during cast??? (call it minor cowardice)

kojou

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

ztyhurstub17_ESO wrote: »

For stone fist...

Reduce the cost, change it to a fireball, and make it a ranged DoT for when DKs can't be in melee. Also give it a synergy while the DoT is active.

The only thing I can think of that DKs really lack is the ability to do decent DPS at range.

I would love a ranged DoT, but I want a morph that scales somewhat with max resource.

Also Flame doesn't match the tree theme.

I would suggest some sort of reliable or placeable heal or mitigation. Say a large area akin to domihaus set, but you get minor protection.

Different morphs could offer different buffs.

Morph 1: Magma Shard

Slam an enemy with a ball of molten magma dealing X Flame damage and X Flame damage for 10 seconds.
Allies can activated a synergy that makes the magma explode to nearby enemies for X damage.

Morph 2: Obsidian Shard

Slam an enemy with solid rock, dealing [x] Magic Damage and stunning them for 3 seconds.
Also heals you or a nearby ally for [y] Health for 10 seconds.
Deals significantly less damage, but heals you or an ally near the enemy.

strebor2095

Shifting Standard change: good. Ultimates on DKs are significantly better than any other class because of your passives. Probably still too expensive, but if this was 200 it would be disgusting with Bloodstain/Dragon sets. Maybe make it 200 but last 20% less time.

Petrify: good.


Now, Stonefist needs a change to actually be useful. I propose making it DKs spammable Stam skill (2k DPS?). It loses the CC component, has a Stam Morph and possibly empowers the next Heavy Attack. (stone fists = big smack). Give it ~10 metres of range, to still retain DKs major distance weakness. Or a cool option would be it increases CC duration on next ability. (Might be too annoying).

Please also change Flames of Oblivion to just be a mini flame-destro Ult (follows you, burns for 500 dps AoE).

GeorgeBlack

the changes will not help dragonknights against the meta
You need to fix wings/leap/chains.
you need to boost stamDKs. Unless you want to force everybody in playing 2h/SnB in PvP.
you need to give stamDKs a class CC with stamina cost

Anne_Firehawk

I said it before in this thread and I will say it again: Change the Elder Dragon-Passive to give Major Heroism on activating a Draconic Power-Skill for 2/5 seconds. Draconic Power Skills are not spammable, their cost is huge and it would give DKs Something to work around with, magicka same as stamina.

Also as I mentioned here you should rename the morph of Scales that gives spell resistance to "Swift Plate" granting Major Expedition for 4 Seconds on activation, making the DK choose between either Damage (Dragonfire Scales) or Utility (Swift Plate).

Reduce the Cost of Dragonknight Standard and its morphs to 200. None of the morphs is competitive to the destruction staff Ultimate, not in PVE not in PVP. In vHoF HM you always drop a storm on the adds/boss, always, banner is borderline useless and inferior in every situation to a destro ultimate.
A unique class ultimate should'nt be outclassed by a weapon ultimate. The destruction Staff ultimate does everything Banner does, just better, way better.
On top of that, you DO NOT generate ultimate while it is active with the new changes to Shifting Standard, I assume that is a bug which needs to be fixed. This is really counterproductive in PVP as you not getting any ultimate.

I really like the changes to petrify and its morphs!

Return Flames of Oblivion back to its former state of being a playerbased AOE over time, it is needed for PVE, it really is. Magicka DK gets outclassed in PVE by every stamina player and it is not about risk and reward, for Magicka DK as melee DD it is just risk, no reward. On top of that, Bladecloak is far far superior in melee compared to a shield like Harness Magicka.
Keep Cauterize as it is, reduce the time between the heals and it would become a really strong healing skill.

Rework Stonefist into either a working gapcloser outside of chains OR some form of execute. Maybe a debuff which causes DoTs to do 50% more damage? on executerange?

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_RichLambert and last but not least! @Wrobel

Anne_Firehawk

Also adding something like Minor Protection to fragmented shield might make it more desirable than it is now.

I_killed_Vivec

Joy_Division wrote: »

DK used to be my favorite class to play. I only use it as an occasional PvE DPS class (and even that's tough now because it's a melee class that's outclassed by stam builds). I don't find them fun to play anymore.

• I *really* dislike the changes ZoS made to Inferno way back in the 1.6 patch. I am absolutely flabbergasted how anyone though stripping away what was unique and flavorful skill and then making into a generic DoT that performs the exact same function as Mage Light was something that would make the class more appealing to play. It's been nearly three years, but I still remember watching ESO live and hearing Wrobel say they were changing the ability because it wasn't used. THAT WAS WRONG. We used it all the time, it was a mainstay of DK DPS. I know the new Inferno is a good single target DPS skill, that's not the point. It's generic, boring, and a shadow of what it once was.
• I also really dislike how Standard has become so overshadowed by the Destro ultimate. I get it, in a stationary pure DPS rotation, I know Standard is a little more efficient, but your trials have moved away from those fights and 9 times out of 10 the destro ultiamte is better because it quickly burns down adds in addition to covering a much larger area. In PvP, even inexperienced players can easily step away from it and it's once unique contribution of applying major defile is now done by a spammable Warden skill that also heals allies. I know you're trying to make Shifting more appealing, but as long as Wardens exist, DK ulti regen is halted, and it costs 250 [wow!], there are much better options. If I'm a DPS, I'm dropping a destro or Leaping. If I'm a tank, I'm using Spellwall. This ultimate is obsolete and needs a makeover.
• I feel in PvP if I don't make a perma-block whip spam build, I can't compete. Reflective Scales, Cinderstorm, and dynamic ult regen were ways DKs could defend themselves without resorting to perma-block nonsense. Now scales was overnerfed and so many things aren't reflected anymore, the defensive functions of cinderstrom has been removed, and DKs are the worst ultiamte regeners mean go farm sturdy gear and get your sword and shield because otherwise you're toast. Yes the perma-block whip in your face build is solid, but I felt very frustrated moving away from that archetype because the DKs non block oriented defensive toolkit is largely gone.

I would really like it if the DKs morphs gave DKs one of two vectors to follow: either the swift, nimble, damage route (because dragons are this too!) or the rugged, stand their ground, tough as Earth route. It would not only make for more options but get rid of a lot of the perma-block troll builds in cyrodiil.

As far as the changes for update 16, what @Glory wrote covers most of what I think needs to be said. I'll add:

• Cauterize is better, sure, but it's hard to use a precious bar slot on a heal I can't control. Make it (and the Inferno morph) AoE as it once was and I would prefer it perform a different buff than what any class can get from the Mage's Guild or a potion do DKs can be a little unique.
• Shitting is easier to use. It's still outclassed by alternative and way too expensive for what it does.
• Petrify was already a strong skill and it's better. Nothing much to add except I agree with the other posters who feel the Stonefist is a clear lesser option and ought to be reworked.

Speak for yourself! I find it easier to fight when my trousers aren't round my ankles

Savos_Saren

Could someone please post the Tooltip for Shifting Standard with a Lighting Staff equipped... and then post Eye of Flame with an inferno staff equipped?

I'd like to see the comparison of the flame damage between Shifting (with the aoe lightning staff passive buff) and Eye. A 25 second Standard vs a 10 second Eye...

@Kilandros if you get my drift...

Sleep724

Had an idea for a shifting standard rework. Have the standard on the players back, like the sewer bosses do and grant a 15-20% damage reduction and minor heroism to allied players within a 10 meter circle of you. It could be like soldiers on a battlefield following a banner into battle with high morale. Could also be a good defense against destro ult groups.

Glory

jaburns wrote: »

Could someone please post the Tooltip for Shifting Standard with a Lighting Staff equipped... and then post Eye of Flame with an inferno staff equipped?

I'd like to see the comparison of the flame damage between Shifting (with the aoe lightning staff passive buff) and Eye. A 25 second Standard vs a 10 second Eye...

@Kilandros if you get my drift...

Tested on a template with: template character with 5 purple Wizard Riposte, no attribute allocation, Perfected Aslyum weapons, basic CP allocation and all passives, major sorcery. Altmer for racial passives.

Here you go:


Ironically it looks like Shifting Standard doesn't even benefit from the lightning staff AoE passive. Bug?