dozens of millions gold from unindentifed source.

Alcest

I already PMed Jessica Folsom, but i guess this problem need higher attention thats why i started this topic. As some of you already know, there is a goldseller who selling incredible amounts of gold(tens of millions) for overcheap price(some of you also know this person). He probably take this gold from his old stock, which has formed by selling duplicated/hacked resources (especially Aetherial Dusts(more details about it u can read here https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/356366/unlimited-aetherial-dust )) . In case if this goldseller take gold from his old stock it is not a big problem. But if he duplicate/hack gold OR still duplicate/hack resources(for trade it for gold later) - its a significant threat for game economy.
Now he selling gold not only to his own customers, but to another goldsellers(for reselling), who selling MMO gold(not only ESO) via their famous sites.

Obviously no point to ban his accounts - he can buy new ones. In case if he has stock(probably guild bank), ZOS should delete it. In case if he doesnot has stock, but take gold by hacking/duplicating gold/resources or from any other unindentifed sources - the situation is much worse...

starkerealm

As I recall, Gina said they'd actually checked out the Aetherial Dust and verified that the amount in play was legitimate. The actual issue was that players had been buying and flipping the stuff, not that it was actually being duped.

InvitationNotFound

ZOS simply doesn't care. Take a look on how *** is handled here. What happens with the PTS feedback and bug reports? What happens with the information posted on the "Cheaters / Exploiters" thread? What happens with your own reports? Yes, exactly nothing for month or even years.

They are focused on crown sales and not on improving / fixing the game and its issues.

Edit:

starkerealm wrote: »

As I recall, Gina said they'd actually checked out the Aetherial Dust and verified that the amount in play was legitimate. The actual issue was that players had been buying and flipping the stuff, not that it was actually being duped.

Yes, they say a lot of *** all day long. They weren't able to reproduce the easiest things in the past and throwing around with false statistics, numbers and diagrams. And there were so many strange things with this Aetherial Dust situation that I only can say you have to be very naive to simply believe what ZOS said there.

starkerealm

Let's see, angry user, or:

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hi everyone,

In digging into this with our BI team, we found a few things but none of them point to an exploit. We did find some gold sellers involved, and have since permanently banned the accounts and are investigating other accounts for potential involvement.

Beyond that, we looked at how many Aetherial Dust players have obtained daily over the course of the past two months on each server and how they obtained it. There is a possible (statistical) maximum that players can obtain via normal methods and no one has exceeded that. Now, something we are seeing is a few people buying low, selling high, and essentially cornering the market. This is resulting in what looks like someone having far more of a rare item than they should, but when we dug into how they got the items, we’re not seeing anything abnormal that would suggest item duping or an exploit.

(Small edit to clarify the limit comment.)

Wasn't Gina, it was Jessica, that one's on me.

Runs

starkerealm wrote: »

As I recall, Gina said they'd actually checked out the Aetherial Dust and verified that the amount in play was legitimate. The actual issue was that players had been buying and flipping the stuff, not that it was actually being duped.

One guy was selling something like 300 for 20k a piece... that's not flipping, I dont care what she says.

InvitationNotFound

starkerealm wrote: »

Let's see, angry user, or:

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hi everyone,

In digging into this with our BI team, we found a few things but none of them point to an exploit. We did find some gold sellers involved, and have since permanently banned the accounts and are investigating other accounts for potential involvement.

Beyond that, we looked at how many Aetherial Dust players have obtained daily over the course of the past two months on each server and how they obtained it. There is a possible (statistical) maximum that players can obtain via normal methods and no one has exceeded that. Now, something we are seeing is a few people buying low, selling high, and essentially cornering the market. This is resulting in what looks like someone having far more of a rare item than they should, but when we dug into how they got the items, we’re not seeing anything abnormal that would suggest item duping or an exploit.

(Small edit to clarify the limit comment.)

Wasn't Gina, it was Jessica, that one's on me.

so what? you got lied to, kid.

Take a look on their track record on how they handle such things... take a look on what happened and what they say. It doesn't match. In my opinion, they are just incompetent and denying or ignoring everything they don't like. There's no money to be made taking care about such issues, simple as that.

Feanor

Banker exploit? People got a 3 day suspension and kept their gold mats, the refined mats, and their gold made through it.

AP outpost farming exploit? People kept their Alliance ranks and the gold they laundered with selling AP exclusive style motifs. Only action was removing AP from the account and a 3 day suspension.

Notice the pattern?

bloodthirstyvampire

InvitationNotFound wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Let's see, angry user, or:

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hi everyone,

In digging into this with our BI team, we found a few things but none of them point to an exploit. We did find some gold sellers involved, and have since permanently banned the accounts and are investigating other accounts for potential involvement.

Beyond that, we looked at how many Aetherial Dust players have obtained daily over the course of the past two months on each server and how they obtained it. There is a possible (statistical) maximum that players can obtain via normal methods and no one has exceeded that. Now, something we are seeing is a few people buying low, selling high, and essentially cornering the market. This is resulting in what looks like someone having far more of a rare item than they should, but when we dug into how they got the items, we’re not seeing anything abnormal that would suggest item duping or an exploit.

(Small edit to clarify the limit comment.)

Wasn't Gina, it was Jessica, that one's on me.

so what? you got lied to, kid.

Take a look on their track record on how they handle such things... take a look on what happened and what they say. It doesn't match. In my opinion, they are just incompetent and denying or ignoring everything they don't like. There's no money to be made taking care about such issues, simple as that.

Dude take a chil pill your in denial they sorted it, its like you want to hate zos

Feanor

bloodthirstyvampire wrote: »

InvitationNotFound wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Let's see, angry user, or:

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hi everyone,

In digging into this with our BI team, we found a few things but none of them point to an exploit. We did find some gold sellers involved, and have since permanently banned the accounts and are investigating other accounts for potential involvement.

Beyond that, we looked at how many Aetherial Dust players have obtained daily over the course of the past two months on each server and how they obtained it. There is a possible (statistical) maximum that players can obtain via normal methods and no one has exceeded that. Now, something we are seeing is a few people buying low, selling high, and essentially cornering the market. This is resulting in what looks like someone having far more of a rare item than they should, but when we dug into how they got the items, we’re not seeing anything abnormal that would suggest item duping or an exploit.

(Small edit to clarify the limit comment.)

Wasn't Gina, it was Jessica, that one's on me.

so what? you got lied to, kid.

Take a look on their track record on how they handle such things... take a look on what happened and what they say. It doesn't match. In my opinion, they are just incompetent and denying or ignoring everything they don't like. There's no money to be made taking care about such issues, simple as that.

Dude take a chil pill your in denial they sorted it, its like you want to hate zos

Yeah. They sorted it out so well that their new policy after all these fiascos is not giving details about a fixed exploit anymore at all.

bloodthirstyvampire

Feanor wrote: »

bloodthirstyvampire wrote: »

InvitationNotFound wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Let's see, angry user, or:

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hi everyone,

In digging into this with our BI team, we found a few things but none of them point to an exploit. We did find some gold sellers involved, and have since permanently banned the accounts and are investigating other accounts for potential involvement.

Beyond that, we looked at how many Aetherial Dust players have obtained daily over the course of the past two months on each server and how they obtained it. There is a possible (statistical) maximum that players can obtain via normal methods and no one has exceeded that. Now, something we are seeing is a few people buying low, selling high, and essentially cornering the market. This is resulting in what looks like someone having far more of a rare item than they should, but when we dug into how they got the items, we’re not seeing anything abnormal that would suggest item duping or an exploit.

(Small edit to clarify the limit comment.)

Wasn't Gina, it was Jessica, that one's on me.

so what? you got lied to, kid.

Take a look on their track record on how they handle such things... take a look on what happened and what they say. It doesn't match. In my opinion, they are just incompetent and denying or ignoring everything they don't like. There's no money to be made taking care about such issues, simple as that.

Dude take a chil pill your in denial they sorted it, its like you want to hate zos

Yeah. They sorted it out so well that their new policy after all these fiascos is not giving details about a fixed exploit anymore at all.

More about not discussing disciplinary actions in the forums

Feanor

bloodthirstyvampire wrote: »

More about not discussing disciplinary actions in the forums

The ZOS fanboi is strong in this one. What has an explanation about the nature of an exploit to do with discussing disciplinary actions? Besides, that no naming and shaming and it's not allowed to discuss any action we take policy only serves as a soft cushion those exploiters land in. The truth is just like the poster above said: Dealing with exploits and cheats doesn't generate revenue and is bad PR on top. Unless you're Blizzard of course. They do it right.

WildWilbur

bloodthirstyvampire wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

bloodthirstyvampire wrote: »

InvitationNotFound wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Let's see, angry user, or:

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hi everyone,

In digging into this with our BI team, we found a few things but none of them point to an exploit. We did find some gold sellers involved, and have since permanently banned the accounts and are investigating other accounts for potential involvement.

Beyond that, we looked at how many Aetherial Dust players have obtained daily over the course of the past two months on each server and how they obtained it. There is a possible (statistical) maximum that players can obtain via normal methods and no one has exceeded that. Now, something we are seeing is a few people buying low, selling high, and essentially cornering the market. This is resulting in what looks like someone having far more of a rare item than they should, but when we dug into how they got the items, we’re not seeing anything abnormal that would suggest item duping or an exploit.

(Small edit to clarify the limit comment.)

Wasn't Gina, it was Jessica, that one's on me.

so what? you got lied to, kid.

Take a look on their track record on how they handle such things... take a look on what happened and what they say. It doesn't match. In my opinion, they are just incompetent and denying or ignoring everything they don't like. There's no money to be made taking care about such issues, simple as that.

Dude take a chil pill your in denial they sorted it, its like you want to hate zos

Yeah. They sorted it out so well that their new policy after all these fiascos is not giving details about a fixed exploit anymore at all.

More about not discussing disciplinary actions in the forums

What is generally deemed as a good way to strenghten trust in these 'disciplinary actions'...

InvitationNotFound

bloodthirstyvampire wrote: »

InvitationNotFound wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Let's see, angry user, or:

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hi everyone,

In digging into this with our BI team, we found a few things but none of them point to an exploit. We did find some gold sellers involved, and have since permanently banned the accounts and are investigating other accounts for potential involvement.

Beyond that, we looked at how many Aetherial Dust players have obtained daily over the course of the past two months on each server and how they obtained it. There is a possible (statistical) maximum that players can obtain via normal methods and no one has exceeded that. Now, something we are seeing is a few people buying low, selling high, and essentially cornering the market. This is resulting in what looks like someone having far more of a rare item than they should, but when we dug into how they got the items, we’re not seeing anything abnormal that would suggest item duping or an exploit.

(Small edit to clarify the limit comment.)

Wasn't Gina, it was Jessica, that one's on me.

so what? you got lied to, kid.

Take a look on their track record on how they handle such things... take a look on what happened and what they say. It doesn't match. In my opinion, they are just incompetent and denying or ignoring everything they don't like. There's no money to be made taking care about such issues, simple as that.

Dude take a chil pill your in denial they sorted it, its like you want to hate zos

just because you want the world to be like you would like it, doesn't mean that the world is that way.
just as a recent example: I've reported an exploit including a video. according to youtube, this video hasn't been look at after even two weeks (at least not from the US, only people I've shared the link otherwise took a look at it).
So this is the way ZOS handles cheats and exploits. They give a *** *** about it. Deal with it.

WaltherCarraway

I have seen the negatives of staying up late.

Wifeaggro13

Alcest wrote: »

I already PMed Jessica Folsom, but i guess this problem need higher attention thats why i started this topic. As some of you already know, there is a goldseller who selling incredible amounts of gold(tens of millions) for overcheap price(some of you also know this person). He probably take this gold from his old stock, which has formed by selling duplicated/hacked resources (especially Aetherial Dusts(more details about it u can read here https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/356366/unlimited-aetherial-dust )) . In case if this goldseller take gold from his old stock it is not a big problem. But if he duplicate/hack gold OR still duplicate/hack resources(for trade it for gold later) - its a significant threat for game economy.
Now he selling gold not only to his own customers, but to another goldsellers(for reselling), who selling MMO gold(not only ESO) via their famous sites.

Obviously no point to ban his accounts - he can buy new ones. In case if he has stock(probably guild bank), ZOS should delete it. In case if he doesnot has stock, but take gold by hacking/duplicating gold/resources or from any other unindentifed sources - the situation is much worse...

they dont get their gold that way. they get it through operating multiple trade guilds.

Cpt_Teemo

Runs wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

As I recall, Gina said they'd actually checked out the Aetherial Dust and verified that the amount in play was legitimate. The actual issue was that players had been buying and flipping the stuff, not that it was actually being duped.

One guy was selling something like 300 for 20k a piece... that's not flipping, I dont care what she says.

Yeah, definitely not flipping at that price, the average price to everyone is about 70-80k

Jurand80

have you seen all the bots farming gold? not a single GM ingame to see it for himself and ban them on the spot. the bots just roam tamriel in packs of 10+

Alcest

Jurand80 wrote: »

have you seen all the bots farming gold? not a single GM ingame to see it for himself and ban them on the spot. the bots just roam tamriel in packs of 10+

yea i seen.. but botters are not able to make ~10 millions gold per day. the person who i am talking about is able

MLGProPlayer

starkerealm wrote: »

As I recall, Gina said they'd actually checked out the Aetherial Dust and verified that the amount in play was legitimate. The actual issue was that players had been buying and flipping the stuff, not that it was actually being duped.

Did you read the actual thread? There are screenshots in there with evidence... People were selling thousands of dust for 20k. You don't buy at 75k to flip for 20k.

All Gina said was that there was no duping. Botting is still very much in play.

MLGProPlayer

Alcest wrote: »

Jurand80 wrote: »

have you seen all the bots farming gold? not a single GM ingame to see it for himself and ban them on the spot. the bots just roam tamriel in packs of 10+

yea i seen.. but botters are not able to make ~10 millions gold per day. the person who i am talking about is able

Sure they are. They have an army of bots (no botter has just one account).

Axoinus

You know, personally, I have never played and MMO where the base currency was more meaningless. I do not intend that as an insult, but IMO, gold has limited influence on your performance.

From what I have experienced, time >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gold

Elsonso

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

As I recall, Gina said they'd actually checked out the Aetherial Dust and verified that the amount in play was legitimate. The actual issue was that players had been buying and flipping the stuff, not that it was actually being duped.

Did you read the actual thread? There are screenshots in there with evidence... People were selling thousands of dust for 20k. You don't buy at 75k to flip for 20k.

All Gina said was that there was no duping. Botting is still very much in play.

The concern was a duping exploit, and that has been confirmed by ZOS to not be the case.

Botting is a different thing. Anyone who came along and observed how ZOS treats botting would assume that it is a legitimate and sanctioned method for obtaining materials and gold in the game. These players are probably among the most loyal and stable customers they have.

vyndral13preub18_ESO

Axoinus wrote: »

You know, personally, I have never played and MMO where the base currency was more meaningless. I do not intend that as an insult, but IMO, gold has limited influence on your performance.

From what I have experienced, time >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gold

A trend i have noticed more and more in mmos. As more and more of them go ftp or btp all the cool extra stuff you use to spend in game currency on, gets moved to the cash shop, for real world currency. Leaving in game currency less meaningful.

Then add in that most of the fluff ESO sells in the crown store is all bound. So there is no secondary market of in game currency for them. Further pushing down the value.

I suppose it doesn't help that the main game is silly easy. Pay to upgrade your gear? Why?

zaria

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Alcest wrote: »

Jurand80 wrote: »

have you seen all the bots farming gold? not a single GM ingame to see it for himself and ban them on the spot. the bots just roam tamriel in packs of 10+

yea i seen.. but botters are not able to make ~10 millions gold per day. the person who i am talking about is able

Sure they are. They have an army of bots (no botter has just one account).

So where are the bot armies? only bots I have seen has been players farming mobs for xp.
One verified, some other idiot grindings was probably bots. (idiot as in overland with little mobs)
This was player run bots, real names, all sort of classes, gear and levels, not very synchronized,
Most who was here at launch know that gold seller bot trains look like and how easy its to spot.

Mettaricana

Here i am now still to this day never found a single dust

Elsonso

zaria wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Alcest wrote: »

Jurand80 wrote: »

have you seen all the bots farming gold? not a single GM ingame to see it for himself and ban them on the spot. the bots just roam tamriel in packs of 10+

yea i seen.. but botters are not able to make ~10 millions gold per day. the person who i am talking about is able

Sure they are. They have an army of bots (no botter has just one account).

So where are the bot armies? only bots I have seen has been players farming mobs for xp.
One verified, some other idiot grindings was probably bots. (idiot as in overland with little mobs)
This was player run bots, real names, all sort of classes, gear and levels, not very synchronized,
Most who was here at launch know that gold seller bot trains look like and how easy its to spot.

More like "squads" but they are common on PC NA in a variety of places. I check in on them from time to time. Last time I spent any time in Shadowfen, there were probably 15-20 of them out farming. I don't recall the exact number.

Bouldercleave

LOL! Why in the world you buy gold in this game??? What is there to spend it on besides useless motifs or crap for your more useless house?

People usually craft their own gear so they can grind for the better gear that is all BoP. If you spend a few minutes a day farming mats and a few skill points in provisioning and alchemy, you never need to buy anything.

Cpt_Teemo

Axoinus wrote: »

You know, personally, I have never played and MMO where the base currency was more meaningless. I do not intend that as an insult, but IMO, gold has limited influence on your performance.

From what I have experienced, time >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gold

I don't know about that, decorating sure does cost alot and all those expensive patterns and motifs.

starkerealm

lordrichter wrote: »

zaria wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Alcest wrote: »

Jurand80 wrote: »

have you seen all the bots farming gold? not a single GM ingame to see it for himself and ban them on the spot. the bots just roam tamriel in packs of 10+

yea i seen.. but botters are not able to make ~10 millions gold per day. the person who i am talking about is able

Sure they are. They have an army of bots (no botter has just one account).

So where are the bot armies? only bots I have seen has been players farming mobs for xp.
One verified, some other idiot grindings was probably bots. (idiot as in overland with little mobs)
This was player run bots, real names, all sort of classes, gear and levels, not very synchronized,
Most who was here at launch know that gold seller bot trains look like and how easy its to spot.

More like "squads" but they are common on PC NA in a variety of places. I check in on them from time to time. Last time I spent any time in Shadowfen, there were probably 15-20 of them out farming. I don't recall the exact number.

Yeah, I used to see them down around Drowned Coast. Supposedly their favorite spot now is somewhere in The Rift, though I don't care enough to go find them.

Elsonso

starkerealm wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

zaria wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Alcest wrote: »

Jurand80 wrote: »

have you seen all the bots farming gold? not a single GM ingame to see it for himself and ban them on the spot. the bots just roam tamriel in packs of 10+

yea i seen.. but botters are not able to make ~10 millions gold per day. the person who i am talking about is able

Sure they are. They have an army of bots (no botter has just one account).

So where are the bot armies? only bots I have seen has been players farming mobs for xp.
One verified, some other idiot grindings was probably bots. (idiot as in overland with little mobs)
This was player run bots, real names, all sort of classes, gear and levels, not very synchronized,
Most who was here at launch know that gold seller bot trains look like and how easy its to spot.

More like "squads" but they are common on PC NA in a variety of places. I check in on them from time to time. Last time I spent any time in Shadowfen, there were probably 15-20 of them out farming. I don't recall the exact number.

Yeah, I used to see them down around Drowned Coast. Supposedly their favorite spot now is somewhere in The Rift, though I don't care enough to go find them.

There are lots of "favorite spots" in the game.

starkerealm

lordrichter wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

zaria wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Alcest wrote: »

Jurand80 wrote: »

have you seen all the bots farming gold? not a single GM ingame to see it for himself and ban them on the spot. the bots just roam tamriel in packs of 10+

yea i seen.. but botters are not able to make ~10 millions gold per day. the person who i am talking about is able

Sure they are. They have an army of bots (no botter has just one account).

So where are the bot armies? only bots I have seen has been players farming mobs for xp.
One verified, some other idiot grindings was probably bots. (idiot as in overland with little mobs)
This was player run bots, real names, all sort of classes, gear and levels, not very synchronized,
Most who was here at launch know that gold seller bot trains look like and how easy its to spot.

More like "squads" but they are common on PC NA in a variety of places. I check in on them from time to time. Last time I spent any time in Shadowfen, there were probably 15-20 of them out farming. I don't recall the exact number.

Yeah, I used to see them down around Drowned Coast. Supposedly their favorite spot now is somewhere in The Rift, though I don't care enough to go find them.

There are lots of "favorite spots" in the game.

Yeah, and I've seen the shadowfen mob you're talking about. Just, not recently. Though, that's mostly because I stay out of shadowfen whenever possible.