Cyrodil PVE/Exploration campaign

ookami007

I would be VERY interested in a PvE version of Cyrodil and Imperial City. Lots of lore and sights to see or do in a COOPERATIVE mode.

Enemy-of-Coldharbour

ZOS could introduce a non-PVP campaign for Cyrodiil. That would make a lot of folks happy.

Enemy-of-Coldharbour

olivesforge wrote: »

Its really not the same. A lot of pvpers work hard trying to complete objectives and quest. We don't mind running across a map killing zergs fighting tanks and gathering. But what a majority of people do mind is having it interrupted by a one-shot or roaming Rakkhat. Just because its a pve zone. PVP in this game is a broken joke. It really should have never been implemented.

FTFY

apostate9

ookami007 wrote: »

I would be VERY interested in a PvE version of Cyrodil and Imperial City. Lots of lore and sights to see or do in a COOPERATIVE mode.

People in Cyrodiil ARE COOPERATING. You'd know if you had ever tried it.

I wonder when we will get a mob-free Maelstrom Arena for PvP, with VMA weapons in the reward bags?

Absolut_Turkey

Sorry kids. No risk, no reward. If you're too scared to step into Cryodiil, then you don't deserve to have the rewards that come with Cryodiil.

TequilaFire

The crux of the matter is there is no difference between getting killed by a player or a Daedra programmed to hunt and gank you. Or is it PvE players are so used to easily defeating PvE NPCs they never die in PvE?
Just stop worrying about being killed and you will be fine.
It doesn't hurt a bit and you lose nothing, you can't even be looted.
You don't even talk to the player that kills you and he will not even remember you 2 minutes later.
Never seen such lack of backbone in a game before.

kargen27

Menegroth wrote: »

klowdy1 wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

Its about give and take.

To give benefits of completing Cyrodiil stuff to people without them having to beat the content there (that content being surviving other players), you'd have to offer the same to people like myself....: PVPers who don't do trials or the harder dungeons.. Let me do them without having to beat the content - Empty all the bosses out, let me walk through them and give me the loot in a chest at the end - not to mention the titles, achievements and Undaunted levels etc...

Sounds a bit silly, doesn't it?

What they are asking for is a PvE version of a PvP zone. The mirror for you would be to fill a trial with other players attacking you (getting PvP in a PvE zone). Dungeons have predictable mechanics, while players are a bit harder to plan ahead for everything that needs to be done. You're comparing apples to oranges. The OP is asking to turn a PvP zone into a PvE zone in a different instance, you are asking for the best free loot.

It boggles my mind how people fail to understand something so simple as this. PvPers have absolutely nothing to lose with this. We'll get out of their queues and they'll have a PvP zone filled with PvPers only. The only people against this are the people that can only gain AP by ganking PvErs trying to do their PvE things. Real PvPers should have no problem at all with this.

You keep saying this but you also fail to see their side of things. PvP players really do not like PvE. They tolerate it to reach their goals in PvP. They do not see why they should have to tolerate your world to advance in their world if you get a pass visiting their world. On a side note I took a crafter through all of Cyrodiil for the achievements and he was so bad I had to hide near some of the delve bosses and wait for help because he couldn't at that time solo them. It took a lot of time (especially the fishing) but he got it done. Most of the time the PvP crowd left me alone.

And that brings me to my next point. The reason most PvP players left me alone is because they gained nothing by killing me. PvP players are not ganking PvE for AP. A PvE player isn't worth enough for the trouble. Good chance you are getting jumped by other people who are also there for the PvE content. Could also be people new to PvP just trying to figure things out. The serious PvP crowd will ignore you simply because you are not worth the jumping off a horse and killing.

I understand my healer is never going to get through vet Maelstrom without serious changes. Doesn't mean I am going to demand Maelstrom be changed just so I can get the achievement. Eventually I may shift her build learn a DPS rotation and give it a try. Not all content is meant for my characters and play style. I realize this and wouldn't want it changed for me because there are others out there that enjoy it as it is. I'm sure I do things in the game they would rather not do.

And yeah it may seem selfish that they don't want to give you the easy way out but in truth keeping Cyrodiil as is in respect to being PvP only is actually good for the game.

Enodoc

Absolut_Turkey wrote: »

Sorry kids. No risk, no reward. If you're too scared to step into Cryodiil, then you don't deserve to have the rewards that come with Cryodiil.

At the base level I have to agree with this. But I wouldn't be against something that altered the risk perception factor.

max_only

apostate9 wrote: »

max_only wrote: »

Osteos wrote: »

When you enter Cyrodiil you become a soldier for your faction. If you are unwilling to fight for your faction you have no business being in Cyrodiil.

What if I wanted to be a medic for the army, a non combatant?

Medics are not non-combatants. They get targeted and killed a lot. And if you want to be a medic, go join the fray as a healer. What you are asking to be isn't a medic, it's a deserter.

Oh I know, I was just playing devils advocate. When I pvp in Cyrodiil or BGs I play a healer and I'm always targeted and killed- a lot... it's kind of funny how much the other side targets dedicated healers in any game one plays.

Maikon

As soon as ZOS opens up PVP in all zones, then you can have your PVE Cyrodiil, until then, either deal with the risk of having to fight for achievements, or stay the *** outta PVP, you only take up space.

max_only

TequilaFire wrote: »

The crux of the matter is there is no difference between getting killed by a player or a Daedra programmed to hunt and gank you. Or is it PvE players are so used to easily defeating PvE NPCs they never die in PvE?
Just stop worrying about being killed and you will be fine.
It doesn't hurt a bit and you lose nothing, you can't even be looted.
You don't even talk to the player that kills you and he will not even remember you 2 minutes later.
Never seen such lack of backbone in a game before.

Being killed once by chance is not a problem for me. I usually laugh. It's being killed over and over and over and over and over and over by someone who is waiting with the sole purpose of disturbing your quest that can be the problem. And I know what you're going to say, a very hard boss can kill a player over and over, preventing a quest from moving forward. That's true. It's a different feeling when a machine that doesn't know any better constantly kills you versus a real life human bullying you inside your entertainment/escape that rankles people. "Honorable pvpers look for good fights don't do this" you say. I believe you, I wasn't teabagged once this past event. I was even able to grab a skyshard between contested keeps with an enemy EP nightblade. Most likely they were a pver there for the festival too. On day one of the festival I was able to go get an IC district by myself, didn't meet a single soul. I went to IC all the time before the festival to craft, no people.

It's also not a lack of backbone, it's an expectation of mmos, this one in particular. This is a casual game. For some, this is their first mmo coming from the single player Elder Scrolls titles. There is no extra threat from other players in those games. You can spend an inordinate amount of time just trying to make your character look cool. Completing every single side quest and mini hidden objective felt like a very satisfying experience in the single player Elder Scrolls. Being barred from the feeling of satisfaction on something you spend money on, by another person no less, is frustrating not exciting.

Honorable people don't stick out in the minds of others, sorry to say. Maybe if there was less glory and more shame dumped on the "bullies" when they crow about their pver smashing skills, it would start to die down as a culture.

badmojo

If you are being bullied by an enemy player preventing you from doing something then type something into zone chat like....
"WTB escort to kill a delve boss. Been killed by enemy camping it. 5k upon completion." Or whatever you can afford to offer...i bet you would get your boss on an active campaign.

As a pvper I have no respect for people ganking questers....so if i wasnt too busy i would gladly do it for free....all you gotta do is ask for help.

Menegroth

badmojo wrote: »

Menegroth wrote: »

It boggles my mind how people fail to understand something so simple as this. PvPers have absolutely nothing to lose with this. We'll get out of their queues and they'll have a PvP zone filled with PvPers only. The only people against this are the people that can only gain AP by ganking PvErs trying to do their PvE things. Real PvPers should have no problem at all with this.

Because it's not about us losing free kills, that's the part you have to understand. It's about not giving in to whiny PVE'ers who can't be bothered to even spend a few hours in a PVP zone. The zone was designed with PVP in mind. I don't want the developers to spend even 1minute retrofitting it so cowards can get their skyshards without worry...no...just no. I will say it again...because I know you will forget.....THIS IS NOT ABOUT WANTING FREE KILLS IN CYRODIIL. IT'S ABOUT YOU GUYS BEING SO CHICKEN **** THAT YOU REFUSE TO EVER STEP FOOT INSIDE A PVP ZONE.

#NoSafeSpaceInCyrodiil

Of all the excuses I've seen so far, this is the most pathetic one. It's so ridiculous that at first I thought for sure you were just a troll, but the internet taught me to not doubt the depths of people's stupidity.

You're crying for the sake of crying. What does it matter to you if someone else doesn't want to PvP? PvErs are the majority of the playerbase and, as much as you people want to deny it, PvPers will never return profit to ZOS. We are the reason you people can play around in Cyrodil. Never forget that.

Menegroth

kargen27 wrote: »

You keep saying this but you also fail to see their side of things. PvP players really do not like PvE. They tolerate it to reach their goals in PvP. They do not see why they should have to tolerate your world to advance in their world if you get a pass visiting their world. On a side note I took a crafter through all of Cyrodiil for the achievements and he was so bad I had to hide near some of the delve bosses and wait for help because he couldn't at that time solo them. It took a lot of time (especially the fishing) but he got it done. Most of the time the PvP crowd left me alone.

And that brings me to my next point. The reason most PvP players left me alone is because they gained nothing by killing me. PvP players are not ganking PvE for AP. A PvE player isn't worth enough for the trouble. Good chance you are getting jumped by other people who are also there for the PvE content. Could also be people new to PvP just trying to figure things out. The serious PvP crowd will ignore you simply because you are not worth the jumping off a horse and killing.

I understand my healer is never going to get through vet Maelstrom without serious changes. Doesn't mean I am going to demand Maelstrom be changed just so I can get the achievement. Eventually I may shift her build learn a DPS rotation and give it a try. Not all content is meant for my characters and play style. I realize this and wouldn't want it changed for me because there are others out there that enjoy it as it is. I'm sure I do things in the game they would rather not do.

And yeah it may seem selfish that they don't want to give you the easy way out but in truth keeping Cyrodiil as is in respect to being PvP only is actually good for the game.

If PvE is something you people donb't want to have to deal with, petition ZOS for a PvP way to get the armor you need for PvP. Someone suggested a dungeon filled with players somewhere. And that's just one idea.

And no, the PvErs are not ganking other PvErs. There's a lot of people that specificaly wait in delves and other PvE spots to kill PvErs just for fun. And all the PvErs accounts on the matter when they were in Cyrodil atest to that. I'm sure there are a lot of honorable PvPers that don't do that, but the idiots hunting and killing PvErs are numerous enough to be a problem. And that's why we're petitioning ZOS for a completely separate PvE Cyrodil campaing.

And yes, being against this is selfish in the extreme. Specially when it'd not detract from anyone's game. Except the gankers. And anyone defending those scum cannot say they're honorable PvPers.
Like we've been saying again and again and again and again, having us out of your queues so you can battle only PvPers that'll give you a challenge while we're free to complete the PvE portion of Cyrodil in peace only benefits both groups.

kargen27

Menegroth wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

You keep saying this but you also fail to see their side of things. PvP players really do not like PvE. They tolerate it to reach their goals in PvP. They do not see why they should have to tolerate your world to advance in their world if you get a pass visiting their world. On a side note I took a crafter through all of Cyrodiil for the achievements and he was so bad I had to hide near some of the delve bosses and wait for help because he couldn't at that time solo them. It took a lot of time (especially the fishing) but he got it done. Most of the time the PvP crowd left me alone.

And that brings me to my next point. The reason most PvP players left me alone is because they gained nothing by killing me. PvP players are not ganking PvE for AP. A PvE player isn't worth enough for the trouble. Good chance you are getting jumped by other people who are also there for the PvE content. Could also be people new to PvP just trying to figure things out. The serious PvP crowd will ignore you simply because you are not worth the jumping off a horse and killing.

I understand my healer is never going to get through vet Maelstrom without serious changes. Doesn't mean I am going to demand Maelstrom be changed just so I can get the achievement. Eventually I may shift her build learn a DPS rotation and give it a try. Not all content is meant for my characters and play style. I realize this and wouldn't want it changed for me because there are others out there that enjoy it as it is. I'm sure I do things in the game they would rather not do.

And yeah it may seem selfish that they don't want to give you the easy way out but in truth keeping Cyrodiil as is in respect to being PvP only is actually good for the game.

If PvE is something you people donb't want to have to deal with, petition ZOS for a PvP way to get the armor you need for PvP. Someone suggested a dungeon filled with players somewhere. And that's just one idea.

And no, the PvErs are not ganking other PvErs. There's a lot of people that specificaly wait in delves and other PvE spots to kill PvErs just for fun. And all the PvErs accounts on the matter when they were in Cyrodil atest to that. I'm sure there are a lot of honorable PvPers that don't do that, but the idiots hunting and killing PvErs are numerous enough to be a problem. And that's why we're petitioning ZOS for a completely separate PvE Cyrodil campaing.

And yes, being against this is selfish in the extreme. Specially when it'd not detract from anyone's game. Except the gankers. And anyone defending those scum cannot say they're honorable PvPers.
Like we've been saying again and again and again and again, having us out of your queues so you can battle only PvPers that'll give you a challenge while we're free to complete the PvE portion of Cyrodil in peace only benefits both groups.

I do both so I'm not "you people". Doing both I realize each have aspects that are good/bad depending on point of view. Again I wouldn't want to change a part of the game I don't like if it would impact those who might like that part of the game as is. I get through it and move on if it is something I feel I must do. I also like different challenges. It does make me a bit sad they made most the PvE content a cake walk. I can change three skills on my healer and do many or the world bosses even with the latest bump they got. Personally I think if you try to solo a world boss it should one shot you just on general principle but that is a different topic for another day. My point being Cyrodiil offers a unique challenge when visiting the delves there. That uniqueness should not be taken away just for simplicity of completing the task.

The people attesting to being jumped by PvP'rs in delves are they sending a questionnaire to those that pop them? You originally said PvP'rs were hunting for AP. They are not. There isn't good AP popping people trying to do delves or find skyshards. You get better AP fixing keep walls. Sure there could be players just sitting on a delve trolling, they are not the typical PvP'r not by a long shot. And as others have mentioned if you say in guild chat hey EP is ganking at whatever delve the problem is usually solved in short order. I disagree with your selfish assessment. Keeping Cyrodiil PvP only is good for the game. It brings people to PvP that might otherwise not try it. Some of those people end up enjoying PvP and stick around. People sticking around playing the game is what benefits everyone. Just like keeping some skills or armor sets PvP only or PvE only is good for the game. Makes people play more content or repeat content which means more game time.

And I doubt people running the delves have any real impact on the queues. People running the sewers or the city for keys and telvar stones, they do impact the queue but again different topic for a different day.

Menegroth

kargen27 wrote: »

I do both so I'm not "you people". Doing both I realize each have aspects that are good/bad depending on point of view. Again I wouldn't want to change a part of the game I don't like if it would impact those who might like that part of the game as is. I get through it and move on if it is something I feel I must do. I also like different challenges. It does make me a bit sad they made most the PvE content a cake walk. I can change three skills on my healer and do many or the world bosses even with the latest bump they got. Personally I think if you try to solo a world boss it should one shot you just on general principle but that is a different topic for another day. My point being Cyrodiil offers a unique challenge when visiting the delves there. That uniqueness should not be taken away just for simplicity of completing the task.

The people attesting to being jumped by PvP'rs in delves are they sending a questionnaire to those that pop them? You originally said PvP'rs were hunting for AP. They are not. There isn't good AP popping people trying to do delves or find skyshards. You get better AP fixing keep walls. Sure there could be players just sitting on a delve trolling, they are not the typical PvP'r not by a long shot. And as others have mentioned if you say in guild chat hey EP is ganking at whatever delve the problem is usually solved in short order. I disagree with your selfish assessment. Keeping Cyrodiil PvP only is good for the game. It brings people to PvP that might otherwise not try it. Some of those people end up enjoying PvP and stick around. People sticking around playing the game is what benefits everyone. Just like keeping some skills or armor sets PvP only or PvE only is good for the game. Makes people play more content or repeat content which means more game time.

And I doubt people running the delves have any real impact on the queues. People running the sewers or the city for keys and telvar stones, they do impact the queue but again different topic for a different day.

That's exactly the thing we've been saying all this time: it won't affect you people at all. The arguments of people against this always revolve around the assumption that this will affect them negatively, which is completely false.

Please, people, understand this once and for all:

- We're NOT asking to transform Cyrodil in a PvE map. We want a SEPARATE PvE campaing that would earn us NO AP and won't help any faction.
- Regardless of what you believe the impact of PvErs pursuing achievments have on your queues, you'll simply not have to worry about us AT ALL. All the slots will be filled by people that WANT to PvP, be them veterans or newbies.

kargen27 wrote: »

Doing both I realize each have aspects that are good/bad depending on point of view. Again I wouldn't want to change a part of the game I don't like if it would impact those who might like that part of the game as is. I get through it and move on if it is something I feel I must do. I also like different challenges.

What will change for you people that are completely honorable and never-ever gank PvErs if we got a SEPARATE PvE Cyrodil instance if we're not worth AP? Again, nothing. You people are just crying for cyring's sake. And I'm sorry to be blunt but your personal preference regarding content is completely irrelevant to the issue since it doesn't affect you at all. The only change for you is that there won't be PvErs to gank.

kargen27 wrote: »

The people attesting to being jumped by PvP'rs in delves are they sending a questionnaire to those that pop them? You originally said PvP'rs were hunting for AP. They are not. There isn't good AP popping people trying to do delves or find skyshards. You get better AP fixing keep walls. Sure there could be players just sitting on a delve trolling, they are not the typical PvP'r not by a long shot.

Have you been sending gankers questionnaires in order to confirm that? If they're not hunting AP, they're trolling. And regardless of which is their moronic reason of choice, their numbers are enough to be an issue for us PvErs. And we do have is the testimony of countless PvErs, me included, that get constantly ganked while trying to do their PvE things. Wheter you people want to admit it or not, it happens and it happen often.

kargen27 wrote: »

Keeping Cyrodiil PvP only is good for the game. It brings people to PvP that might otherwise not try it.

Loads of people try PvP as soon as they hit lvl 10. What makes you think a, have to repeat this so you people understand, COMPLETELY SEPARATE PvE instance of Cyrodil will diminish the number of people trying PvP? Your PvP Cyrodil WILL STILL BE THERE for you and everyone the WANT to do it. If anything, after they're done with their PvE achievements, they might even try it just for the sake of trying something new in the game. Some guilds already do runs with newbies and there's no reason for that to stop if this is implemented.

As we've been saying and are already getting tired of repeating, this can only benefit both groups.

Enodoc

@Menegroth I don't think you or the OP has yet addressed the fact that Cyrodiil's PvE content was specifically designed to be PvE content in a PvP zone. Removing half of that would be not playing the content as designed. What's your take on that?

Menegroth

Enodoc wrote: »

@Menegroth I don't think you or the OP has yet addressed the fact that Cyrodiil's PvE content was specifically designed to be PvE content in a PvP zone. Removing half of that would be not playing the content as designed. What's your take on that?

Again, your PvP Cyrodil will still exist the way it is and you people will still be free to join it with your alts and complete it while dealing with the other factions trying to stop you.

My take on Cyrodil having being designed to to have PvE content in a PvP zone is simple: so what? We know how it is now and how it was deisgned. Our point here is that it doesn't appeal to us the way it is now. That's why we're petitioning for a change. What does it matter to you if someone that don't want to have anything to do with PvP completed their skyshards, delves and lorebooks achievements in a completely separate PvE instance of Cyrodil? Unless you're a ganker that either farm PvErs for fun and/or AP, absolutely nothing will change for you.

Well, the fact that there'll be no PvErs clogging your queues and, from that point on, everyone in a PvP campaing will be there because they want to PvP, providing a much better experience for true PvPers that want the challenge. While we PvErs will be free to get our PvE achievements without having to partake in content that we don't want to do. Everyone profits.

badmojo

Why does a change have to effect me directly in order for my opinion to be valid? I would argue that those who stand to benefit the most from a change are more likely to have a strong bias towards the pros and ignore and minimize the cons.

If someone suggested that all group content in the game should be opened to full 24 person groups I wouldnt be in support of that change for the same reasons I dont support this one. Opening up group content would certainly make my pve experiences a lot easier, but being objective about game design means you put the integrity of the game above your own adjenda.

Do I really care which way this suggestion goes? No, Im just sharing my opinions on the subject. Opinions that might also be held by the people making these decisions. But go ahead and dismiss me as a troll...if you think that will help you get your way.

Menegroth

badmojo wrote: »

Why does a change have to effect me directly in order for my opinion to be valid? I would argue that those who stand to benefit the most from a change are more likely to have a strong bias towards the pros and ignore and minimize the cons.

If someone suggested that all group content in the game should be opened to full 24 person groups I wouldnt be in support of that change for the same reasons I dont support this one. Opening up group content would certainly make my pve experiences a lot easier, but being objective about game design means you put the integrity of the game above your own adjenda.

Do I really care which way this suggestion goes? No, Im just sharing my opinions on the subject. Opinions that might also be held by the people making these decisions. But go ahead and dismiss me as a troll...if you think that will help you get your way.

I really don't know how to this clearer. It should be entirely obvious that, if it doesn't affect you at all, your opinion on the matter is completely and utterly irrelevant. Because, well... It doesn't affect you. And if it doesn't affect you, you're only crying for crying's sake without any reason whatsoever. It boggles my mind how someone can't understand this.

You're comparing apples to truck tires. This analogy makes absolutely no sense. I'll quote myself in hopes that, this time, this will be understood:

Menegroth wrote: »

Please, people, understand this once and for all:

- We're NOT asking to transform Cyrodil in a PvE map. We want a SEPARATE PvE campaing that would earn us NO AP and won't help any faction.
- Regardless of what you believe the impact of PvErs pursuing achievments have on your queues, you'll simply not have to worry about us AT ALL. All the slots will be filled by people that WANT to PvP, be them veterans or newbies.

To try to make this even clearer, your experience will not change at all. Which would not be the case if "all group content in the game should be opened to full 24 person groups". The only thing that'll really change is that people who have no interest in PvP, will get an option to do their PvE achievements without having to bother with PvP. Simple.

"Integrity" of the game? What are you talking about? Are you talking about Elder Scrolls Online, the same game that went through multiple changes since it's release? That ditched the P2P model despite the uproar of the hordes of P2P fanboys? The one that later almost ditched it's entire main premisse and became Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited?
Accept this: change happens and will continue to happen regardless of how you personally feel about it.

That's how this thing works, after all. ZOS does something, we provide feedback, ZOS (sometimes) changes something. Sometimes even for the better. This gme would've sunk faster than a sack of rocks if ZOS hadn't introduced certain big changes. So your "game integrity" argument is completely absurd.

And yes, I do consider you a troll. Your "arguments" are so convoluted and all over the place that I can't really accept you really believe or have any idea of what you're saying.

That being said, I will no longer feed the troll and this will be my last response to you.

badmojo

Integrity in this case means the zone was developed with the risk of pvp encounters being the main focus, so throwing that away to appease some whiny cowardly pvers would go against their intended design. Essentially they would be "selling out" to make a few people(who dont share the developers vision) happy. The existance of changes in this game does not invalidate the concept of integrity.

Thats too bad that you wont respond to my comments. I guess you giving up instead of working with those around you isnt isolated to Cyrodiil.



For anyone else that wants this change... keep in mind that you have two options for a cyrodiil campaign, home and guest. So even if you refuse to group up and overcome a camping ganker you can join the other campaign and chances are pretty good there wont be enemies camping the same spot on that one too.

Also just because an enemy might seemingly be camping a delve with the intent of ruining your life, that might just be your perception of things. Cyrodiil delves used to be THE place to go to grind for xp. Im sure there are still people doing that. So while they might attack you while you pose no direct threat to them, your presence in the delve threatens their xp farm.

Enodoc

Menegroth wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

Menegroth I don't think you or the OP has yet addressed the fact that Cyrodiil's PvE content was specifically designed to be PvE content in a PvP zone. Removing half of that would be not playing the content as designed. What's your take on that?

Again, your PvP Cyrodil will still exist the way it is and you people will still be free to join it with your alts and complete it while dealing with the other factions trying to stop you.

My take on Cyrodil having being designed to to have PvE content in a PvP zone is simple: so what? We know how it is now and how it was deisgned. Our point here is that it doesn't appeal to us the way it is now. That's why we're petitioning for a change. What does it matter to you if someone that don't want to have anything to do with PvP completed their skyshards, delves and lorebooks achievements in a completely separate PvE instance of Cyrodil? Unless you're a ganker that either farm PvErs for fun and/or AP, absolutely nothing will change for you.

Well, the fact that there'll be no PvErs clogging your queues and, from that point on, everyone in a PvP campaing will be there because they want to PvP, providing a much better experience for true PvPers that want the challenge. While we PvErs will be free to get our PvE achievements without having to partake in content that we don't want to do. Everyone profits.

My PvP Cyrodiil? Are you thinking I'm a PvPer? Certainly not. I may dabble occasionally, but I don't enjoy the current meta and stay out of it at the moment. Just like you, I would love to be able to get around Cyrodiil and do my PvE content in peace. But I also understand that in order to do my PvE content in Cyrodiil, I must respect the way that PvE is designed in Cyrodiil, and that design involves being susceptible to PvP. What would a PvE-only Cyrodiil even have in it? Without the PvP objectives, there's basically nothing there, it's just an empty zone sparsely populated with enemies. No real challenge worthy of all those skyshards and lorebooks that you're after, as you'd just be able to pick them all up without putting in any effort. And why does it matter to me? Because it reduces the number of PvE players that I can complete Cyrodiil content with, not to mention giving all of them completely free and unrestricted access to something those of us who have already done it had to carefully orchestrate over a few days so as to not cross the PvP blackspots.

That's why my suggestion is to keep the PvEers in Cyrodiil, but to make it easier for them to express no interest in PvP. For the gankers, who are only out to kill you, this probably would make no difference, but for the decent PvPers who want a good fight, having an indicator that you won't provide that fight (or any AP) is more likely to encourage them to leave you alone.

Menegroth

Enodoc wrote: »

My PvP Cyrodiil? Are you thinking I'm a PvPer? Certainly not. I may dabble occasionally, but I don't enjoy the current meta and stay out of it at the moment. Just like you, I would love to be able to get around Cyrodiil and do my PvE content in peace. But I also understand that in order to do my PvE content in Cyrodiil, I must respect the way that PvE is designed in Cyrodiil, and that design involves being susceptible to PvP. What would a PvE-only Cyrodiil even have in it? Without the PvP objectives, there's basically nothing there, it's just an empty zone sparsely populated with enemies. No real challenge worthy of all those skyshards and lorebooks that you're after, as you'd just be able to pick them all up without putting in any effort. And why does it matter to me? Because it reduces the number of PvE players that I can complete Cyrodiil content with, not to mention giving all of them completely free and unrestricted access to something those of us who have already done it had to carefully orchestrate over a few days so as to not cross the PvP blackspots.

That's why my suggestion is to keep the PvEers in Cyrodiil, but to make it easier for them to express no interest in PvP. For the gankers, who are only out to kill you, this probably would make no difference, but for the decent PvPers who want a good fight, having an indicator that you won't provide that fight (or any AP) is more likely to encourage them to leave you alone.

I see. I did indeed think you were a PvPer trying make your way into an argument about how PvErs are trying to transform Cyrodil in a PvE zone only. Sorry, my mistake.

I completely disagree that the original design must be respected. ZOS themselves changed the game a lot since it's release. The biggest of them in my opinion was the transition to Tamriel Unlimited, which basically scrapped the original premisse of the game. While having a separate PvE Cyrodil campaing is not nearly as big of a change, it must be noted that ZOS is no stranger to such things.

As for what to do to fill the PvE Cyrodil, anything will do actually. Any excuse can be made. For me, the best case scenario would be to fill it with Daedra and have Cyrodil be like a huge Public Dungeon. With stronger mobs and bosses everywhere, which would encourage people to help each other in order to complete the map. Just like in regular Public Dungeons. That's just one idea. I'm sure people can brainstorm and find even better solutions.

What you're suggesting already happens and doesn't help at all. People not fighting back, people fishing or talking to NPCs are obviously trying to do PvE stuff. And we're still having this discussion. Having some way to make PvErs even more distinguishable would only paint a giant target on their backs as griefers would seek them out even more. Don't underestimate the lengths those kind of morons would go to just to ruin someone else's day.

Osteos

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/363721/psa-there-are-45-skyshards-in-cyrodiil-easy-skill-points/p1

sentientomega

Osteos wrote: »

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/363721/psa-there-are-45-skyshards-in-cyrodiil-easy-skill-points/p1

Thanks for this link, I've been making a post in that thread, the point of which is to ascertain which campaign is the least-populated, so I can PvE in Cyro in relative peace. Any info anyone here has on that would be most welcome, thank you.

Menegroth

Osteos wrote: »

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/363721/psa-there-are-45-skyshards-in-cyrodiil-easy-skill-points/p1

Menegroth wrote: »

Takes-No-Prisoner wrote: »

I completed all of the PvE achievements for Cyrodiil[not including Imperial City]. You say 'force', no one is forcing you here sweetheart. If asked, I can give you a pretty nicely detailed guide as to how to take advantage Cyrodiil's map to complete the PvE portion, without engaging a single target. I've done it before myself, but it took time, planning and very careful game play from myself to get through the whole map without being singled out.

I didn't mention anything about singling out PvERs. But, Cyrodiil is, and always will be a war zone. I'm not wishing for it to get anything else-- other then PvP.

I will say this again, there is a way to complete PvE achievements without engaging anyone. All it requires is a few simple rules to follow and careful planning. The honest to Akatosh hard part of it is the how much the map flips different colors, where to be--where not to be. That is where a PvPer's valued perspective comes into play.

A round of applause for you for completing the PvE achievements in Cyrodil, baby doll. But we're not discussing if it's possible or not. What we're asking is for a PvE instance of Cyrodil completely separate from your PvP Holy Land. Understand this: some people hate PvP and don't want to have nothing to do with it whatsoever.

With the new PvE instance, PvErs will get out of your queues and you'll have a PvP zone filled only with PvPers that will give you a challenge. And the skyshards and lorfebooks will still be there in your PvP zone if you wantg to collect them again with another character.

As we've been saying again and again, you people have absolutely nothing to lose from this. Both groups have only to gain.

kargen27

"Because, well... It doesn't affect you"

Actually it does and I have said why.

This game survives on players playing the game. It needs not only new players but players that will be around for a long time. When it comes to PvE new content and repeated content through RNG helps keep people around. Back to topic though...

The way the game works now people who prefer PvP find they sometimes want/need to PvE. People who prefer PvE find sometimes they want/need to go into the PvP zones. Some people dislike one or the other and go back to what they enjoy as soon as they can. Others though find they actually enjoy the content they were avoiding and that leads to them playing the game longer. I know many people in the guilds I am in were reluctant to PvP but once we got them out there doing it (sometimes through helping with PvE stuff in Cyradiil) they found they enjoyed it. Some were even thinking of leaving the game but PvP became their reason to stay. And that is why creating a PvE only Cyrodiil potentially affects PvP players. This idea would decrease the player base affecting the entire game.

Same thing really with RNG. Sure it sucks (for some) having to run the same dungeon twenty times for gear but it keeps them playing the game. If they get the gear first run the end result is they run out of things to do in game sooner causing a drop in player base. People hate RNG but it is needed.

Menegroth

kargen27 wrote: »

"Because, well... It doesn't affect you"

Actually it does and I have said why.

This game survives on players playing the game. It needs not only new players but players that will be around for a long time. When it comes to PvE new content and repeated content through RNG helps keep people around. Back to topic though...

The way the game works now people who prefer PvP find they sometimes want/need to PvE. People who prefer PvE find sometimes they want/need to go into the PvP zones. Some people dislike one or the other and go back to what they enjoy as soon as they can. Others though find they actually enjoy the content they were avoiding and that leads to them playing the game longer. I know many people in the guilds I am in were reluctant to PvP but once we got them out there doing it (sometimes through helping with PvE stuff in Cyradiil) they found they enjoyed it. Some were even thinking of leaving the game but PvP became their reason to stay. And that is why creating a PvE only Cyrodiil potentially affects PvP players. This idea would decrease the player base affecting the entire game.

Same thing really with RNG. Sure it sucks (for some) having to run the same dungeon twenty times for gear but it keeps them playing the game. If they get the gear first run the end result is they run out of things to do in game sooner causing a drop in player base. People hate RNG but it is needed.

To make it easier to answer this one more time, I'll quote myself:

Menegroth wrote: »

Please, people, understand this once and for all:

- We're NOT asking to transform Cyrodil in a PvE map. We want a SEPARATE PvE campaing that would earn us NO AP and won't help any faction.
- Regardless of what you believe the impact of PvErs pursuing achievments have on your queues, you'll simply not have to worry about us AT ALL. All the slots will be filled by people that WANT to PvP, be them veterans or newbies.

kargen27 wrote: »

Keeping Cyrodiil PvP only is good for the game. It brings people to PvP that might otherwise not try it.

Loads of people try PvP as soon as they hit lvl 10. What makes you think a, have to repeat this so you people understand, COMPLETELY SEPARATE PvE instance of Cyrodil will diminish the number of people trying PvP? Your PvP Cyrodil WILL STILL BE THERE for you and everyone the WANT to do it. If anything, after they're done with their PvE achievements, they might even try it just for the sake of trying something new in the game. Some guilds already do runs with newbies and there's no reason for that to stop if this is implemented.

As we've been saying and are already getting tired of repeating, this can only benefit both groups.

Menegroth wrote: »

Osteos wrote: »

And people arguing that a pve cyrodiil does nothing to pvpers, when I first started this game I had NO interest in pvp. I went into Cyrodiil on a skyshard run with a guild. When we exited a delve there was a siege going on at a keep near us and we went over to see what was happening. I have been an avid pvper since that day. SO you tell me. If that had been a pve version of Cyrodiil would I still be a pvper? How many others went in for skyshards or something else and came out loving pvp?

And yes, PvE Cyrodil does not affect you people at all. Concentrate and read because this is not hard to understand, I guarantee.

- The PvP Cyrodil will not cease to exist
- PvErs will get out of your queues
- Cyrodil will be filled with PvPers only, providing you the challenge you desire
- Players in the PvE Cyrodil campaing won't earn any AP or help any factions
- Again, the PvP Cyrodil will still exist the way it is today

So, yes, you'd still be a PvPer since you and yourr guild would still be able to run newbies through it and get people hooked in the battle. What won't help either PvPers nor PvErs is trying force people that have absolutely no interest in PvP in there so they can complete their PvE achievements.

As we've been saying again and again, both groups have only to gain from this. The only group that will lose are the people that seek and farm PvErs in order to gain AP, since they lack the ability to actually fight other PvPers for it.
So, if you really not one of those, you should have no problem at all with a completely separate PvE Cyrodil campaing.

kargen27

You repeating what has already been said does nothing. It didn't address my statement the first time and still doesn't. Your idea is bad for the entire game and that means it is bad for PvP. Nothing you have posted disputes that let alone proves it not true.

And you also failed to address the different challenge Cyrodiil represents to the PvE players. A challenge many found interesting. You have posted no good reason for the change other than you don't want to do it as is.

It is good for the game for crossover activity. It is what helps keep the game alive.

Menegroth

kargen27 wrote: »

You repeating what has already been said does nothing. It didn't address my statement the first time and still doesn't. Your idea is bad for the entire game and that means it is bad for PvP. Nothing you have posted disputes that let alone proves it not true.

And you also failed to address the different challenge Cyrodiil represents to the PvE players. A challenge many found interesting. You have posted no good reason for the change other than you don't want to do it as is.

It is good for the game for crossover activity. It is what helps keep the game alive.

*sigh*
Alright... Let's go over this one more time.

The fact that you fail to recognize or accept that a SEPARATE PvE campaing won't change anything for PvPers does not make it invalid. It just means you failed to understand or accept it since you seem to have already decided that this is bad no matter what. Let's try to be more open minded and have a bit more of intelectual honesty, shall we?

Now, let's go over the topics. Again.

Please, let this into your heads: The Cyrodil PvP campaings WILL NOT cease to exist.

Once more: The Cyrodil PvP campaings WILL NOT cease to exist.

Is that clear enough now? You people and people INTERESTED in PvP will still be able to frequent and use those campaings for doing their Cyrodil delves, lorebooks and skyshards. And better yet: with all the slots filled only with PvPers that WANT to be there.

Are you people capable of understanding that those challenges will still be there for those who WANT to be there? Please, pay close attention to the keyword want. Your personal preference and how you think others should experience content, no matter how absolutely right you think you are, is completely irrelevant. Some people DO NOT WANT to have anything to do with PvP. Everyone have their reasons and they are also irrelevant to the discussion. Which means, for those who struggle to understand things, that the fact that they simply don't want to is reason enough.

What we do have is a percentage of the playerbase that will not touch Cyrodil because of this. Some felt pressured to go in there and came back only with countless ganks that discouraged them from PvP completely. Can you imagine how many more PvErs would be more willing and accepting of PvP if they weren't forced into a gankers cesspool like we are now?

If anything, forcing people to do things they don't want is much more detrimental to the game than anything else. Just like having the separate factions that couldn't interact with one another, while the idea had it's charm, it proved to be completely impractical in the real world.

And as we've been saying all this time, please ram this into your skulls untill it's well understood, The Cyrodil PvP campaings WILL NOT cease to exist. It'll still be there for guilds to run events or try to run newbies through it so they can experience and get hooked on it without being forced to it. So, do you understand now that there's absolutely NO REASON WHATSOEVER to think people will lose interest in PvP because of this? You'll only lose the people that already don't want to be there anyway.