The increasing numbers of the EP Faction.

Rahotu

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

showoff

Minnesinger

Best Forum PvP thread

Rin_Senya

Yeh I have to admit this thread started to deliver

SwampRaider

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

4. I agree with you about working on your weaknesses however when VE members come to forums complaining about "EP numbers" were you not expecting this reply?


I'll stop there to allow you to catch up.

This thread was originally started as just an observation of EP getting more numbers through rerolls as of late. Not as a complaint.

DC pop is 2 bars all day until primetime(8pm EST), whilst AD and EP are at 3 bars IF AD is not locked in pop already.

DC at 2 bars...is embarrassing. Half those people are zerg surfing to chalman, the other half are spread out complaining in zone about those chalamo addicts, calling out EP and AD hitting backline keeps(which rarely get responded to) or farming IC/sewers.

It is a far cry from the DC of last campaign cycle, so this was started to MERELY POINT OUT. What I see on Vivec

Agrippa_Invisus

SwampRaider wrote: »

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

4. I agree with you about working on your weaknesses however when VE members come to forums complaining about "EP numbers" were you not expecting this reply?


I'll stop there to allow you to catch up.

DC pop is 2 bars all day until primetime(8pm EST), whilst AD and EP are at 3 bars IF AD is not locked in pop already.

This is inaccurate. There's the pretty substantial oceanic crew that DC still has in the form of TKG and Vivace and the other Japanese players that push the map fairly well in the early morning. DC will typically have Innocents Abroad as well into the mid afternoon hours which are largely Western Euro players and they push the map consistently as well. It's the lull from about 3-4pm to 7 that you're talking about.

Rickter

This thread is now Vivec Campaign 2.0

Joy_Division

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

@Satiar @Ghost-Shot
Take a deep breath it's all going to be ok.

I would be genuinely interested if you actually replied to the points in my last post rather repeating the same thing again based on what you think they say.

1. I've never complained about running a smaller group then you. I'd rather run that size and I don't care what size you run.

Are you still with me?

2. When considering number in a keep you cannot compare pugs to organised groups. We can agree or disagree here. That's my view.
It's a fact that the biggest group running and you have said that the groups you used to fight at that size are gone.

3. I like your invention of the "outnumbered card". Perhaps we should tell the same to 1vXers when they complain they get zerged down by a group.

4. I agree with you about working on your weaknesses however when VE members come to forums complaining about "EP numbers" were you not expecting this reply?

5. Interesting about no reply to the GM rage comment.

I'll stop there to allow you to catch up.

@Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO

People are going to be sensitive about numbers because what they see in whispers is subjective nonsense. You say that you cannot count Pugs, we'll that's fine that you have such an opinion and there is some validity to that since those Pugs aren't in TS not in a group, aren't coordinating actions, etc., but that doesn't mean those pugs aren't dropping oil, popping negates, spamming encase, ganking healers, etc., and making vital contributions.

What exactly is a Pug? When I play on my Red I am very rarely in a group and never in yours. Well, I count There are many highly ranked skilled EP players who know what they are doing. A lot of us "potato" to Aleswell Farm or what not for various reasons - I mostly do it because I just want the most amount of action (I don't play this game to be some strategic genius) - but that doesn't mean we don't make key differences in any given fight. So selective counting is going to lead to pointless bickering

The whole argument about numbers is nonsense because the way the map has been designed with a single Emperor ring and the bottlenecks, it leads to a lot of faction stacking. I know BoD and other DC guilds are around us (even during the times we'd rather them not be) just like PM or other EP guilds are around you. It is what it is. I would very much prefer if neither group or guild sent derogatory whispers if they found themselves on the wrong side of such a fight considering how often is happens, but people have egos, people remember perceived slights/insults, people need to rationalize why they lose.

Do I feel a little guilty when your 14 are in whatever resource tower and we and BoD and pugs come in an destro bomb + negate you? I do. It's not like we coordinate and want this to happen. I suppose in a perfect world we'd sit by and see if BoD can do the job themselves - and sometimes we do -, but the world isn't perfect, Bulb tries to win campaigns and wants to play timely objectives, it happens to us to so some people want payback, and your group is too big of a threat not to decisively remove. So if the group leader makes the decision to go into the tower, I am going to try and play my best because your group is strong enough to wipe us if we half-ass it and besides as a competitor, I'd expect nothing less. I personally do not feel any sort of celebration, let alone stupid t-bagging or pointless whispering, is warranted in such a situation because the expectation was victory, but not everyone feels the way that I do.

If I had to guess, I would say the 16 man groups the EP runs probably do find themselves more in that situation than we do because I think the EP groups see more strategic value in venturing to the other side of the map and do it more often. Not by much though - no DC group skips chalman and hit BRK or Arrius as much as we do and all our raid leads make these calls - and when we do, then it is us who are swimming in a sea of Reds. I *never* complain about the EP response we get - anywhere for that matter - because I fully expect to see multiple guild tabbards when we do such a move. Even then there is the stupid pointless t-bagging and whispers so all this stuff gets etched in peoples' memories and come out in pointless forum arguments about how one faction or guild plays "wrong."

My 102nd suggestion to improve PvP is that system automatically blocks any salt or rage comments that have to do with numbers because they are always the product of bias, selective memory, selective criteria, and hypocrisy. In the 3+ years playing this game, I have never whispered, let alone complained in the confines of TS, about enemy numbers because I am well aware of the many many times I have befitted from numbers, even if the help was unintentional or unwanted. If people are skilled enough such that the only way they usually die is that they get zerged down, then what exactly are they expecting?
If you are at the top of the food chain, mathematics dictate the opportunities for even numbered competitive fights that are possible are few to begin with. Good players get Xv1ed, bad players get 1vXed.

Numerous other posters have said it an it bears repeating: every faction stacks, zergs, and engages in all the questionable or disliked practices that get complained about on these forums. Whether or not one does it more than another is impossible to measure and pointless: does it make it OK that AD commits said perceived unsportsman act 8 times because DC did 11 times? I would just assume it best not to throw rocks, but I guess the nature of these forums is that's what people are going to do. We all live in glass houses though, so those who throw rocks are going to be called out for it.

Ghost-Shot

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

@Satiar @Ghost-Shot
Take a deep breath it's all going to be ok.

I would be genuinely interested if you actually replied to the points in my last post rather repeating the same thing again based on what you think they say.

1. I've never complained about running a smaller group then you. I'd rather run that size and I don't care what size you run.

Are you still with me?

2. When considering number in a keep you cannot compare pugs to organised groups. We can agree or disagree here. That's my view.
It's a fact that the biggest group running and you have said that the groups you used to fight at that size are gone.

3. I like your invention of the "outnumbered card". Perhaps we should tell the same to 1vXers when they complain they get zerged down by a group.

4. I agree with you about working on your weaknesses however when VE members come to forums complaining about "EP numbers" were you not expecting this reply?

5. Interesting about no reply to the GM rage comment.

I'll stop there to allow you to catch up.

1. Numbers have never interested me much, if we let that argument go I'm all for it, you guys just bring it up a lot. But yes, this thread whole thread wasn't really necessary.

2. I agree, you however seem to want to equate all of DC's numbers in a keep with organized groups and all of EP's, aside from your own, to pugs. It's a two way street.

3. I do on a regular basis, I have no sympathy for someone who willingly puts themselves in a situation then complains about it. Steve is 100% correct on that point, the rage tells from your own guild mates confirm that. You are big enough to wipe a group with a good bomb and small enough to complain that you got zerged when it doesn't work out.

4. I honestly have nothing to say here, I think its true that the EP pop is growing but I personally have no complaint about numbers.

5. I don't speak for the lettuce but that sounds uncharacteristic of him, he rarely initiates a rage tell. If you guys are raging at him and don't like the response I'm not sure what to tell you. Perhaps we could summon @x99Needles to enlighten us.

apostate9

Baconlad wrote: »

First of all, when theres a generic thread about cyrodil politics...its implied that the thread is about VIVEC...you know, where the real kids play. I know you all like to think that playing in no cp somehow makes you a better player...but it doesnt, im sorry you No CP players just like to get easy kills while surfing the zerg. Its a lot harder to be 1vXed in No CP...we get it

Second EP is the best faction by far. Biggest reason is simple, we have absolutely amazing zone leadership, these dudes are outright encouraging. They dont blast EP when were down, they lead the clueless pug nation to victory with awesome callouts and sacrifices. (By sacrifices i mean they and a small team will horse simulator deep into enemy territory to flag a back enemy keep, while leading the rest of pugs to take a ring keep, then they'll do it again and again, sacrificing the primal desire to surf a zerg for easy AP). Unlike a certain AD small man who continuously takes arrius mine...not trying to take the keep...

Third, nords

Shoutout to EP leadership. All the scrubs have been pushed away and sent to AD. Yall can keep em

The "real kids"?

x99Needles

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

Post has been active whilst I was at work

Satiar wrote: »

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

I'd be interested for you to quote the part from Anairi's post in which she says anything about EP not stacking to take back Chal at times.

Here ya go: " To be fair the only guild on EP side that occasionally runs 24m is Pact Militia whereas DC generally needs BOD and VE full groups (+overflows) stacked with AK and Pug guild + zone pugs, so it's not the same fashion, no "

This comment is talking about group sizes and full groups differences between the 2 factions nothing about Chalman. Try again if you would like to.

Satiar wrote: »

We both have people in our guilds who are quite passionate. If you want logs of rage whispers, I've got some seriously nasty stuff from your crew. Let he that is without sin, or so the saying goes. You tend to reap what you sow. VE is not perfect by any means but we've worked to silence or remove our bad actors and constantly tell our players to respect the opposition.

Sure show me a screenshot of Dracarys' GM rage whispering someone inside VE I'd be amazed.
You mention as a guild that you tell your players to respect the opposition yet your GM doesn't? Is it setting a good example?

I'm well aware of things some of my members have said and have also spoken out against doing this however after getting zerged down vs twice your numbers and then tbagged etc I can understand why tempers get a little frayed. I can't really understand it from the side of the larger group however.

Satiar wrote: »

As I've said before, I really don't care about group size. You get the fights you get and I fight them if I'm favored to win or not.

And as you know (as we have spoken in whisper) I'm of the same oppinion. That doesn't mean that I'm not gnna bring up the fact that I think its a poor playstyle to stack a full raid + and then also zerg surf.

Satiar wrote: »

I find that to be mostly nonsense. EP moves around in a giant blob. I regularly get on to find 3 guilds stacked inside Aleswell, and ALL THREE come to Bleakers and ALL THREE come to Chalman and ALL THREE come to Arius and ALL THREE come to Dragonclaw.

First some 'Math' of the 3 most prominent guilds for each faction:
EP: 16+16+24 = 56 + Pugs
DC: 37(according to one of the guys in your run the last time we fought) + 24 + 24 = 87 + Pugs

Now I'm sorry if you think 56vs87 is unfair for DC (as this post was inferring when first made and perpetuated by further comments about Chalman) but you can see why people might think this is a little deluded.

Satiar wrote: »

Ah well, my apologies. I wasn't aware my goal was winning you over. Personally, I've never found taking an outpost and farming there to be a particularly stunning accomplishment but I suppose we can have our own opinions.

Generally when people make an argument they do so in the hope that it alters the oppinions of those they are arguing with. Otherwise these people are just arguing for the sake of it.
Personally I value taking an outpost 16 v 40 a better accomplishment then taking chal 90 v 50. Just me I guess though

Satiar wrote: »

Nameplates and alliance indicators is always turned on, it's very handy to look over our footage and see 17+ people in a "16 man capped group"

I love to see footage of highlights from other guilds, if you make some more videos with all those clips of us being over 16 which you say you have I'd love to see it. Maybe a VE official channel?

Kilandros wrote: »

We all get faction blinders sometimes (ok, most of the time). That it's ZOS's fault we deal with unacceptable lag and loadscreens.

Agreed

Kilandros wrote: »

I can't control those pugs anymore than VE can.

I disagree here. You can start by not inviting them to your raid. Secondly you can run lower numbers so they make less of an impact to your size (e.g 16 instead of 24+) and Lastly you can go to a distant part of the map to create your own fight there instead of stacking with the rest of the guilds and pugs to 'ensure' they follow you. All are quite effective. Guilds in my experience know 90% of the time when they create their own fight or zerg surf.
(I'm referring to play in general not to any guilds in particular)

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

I believe capping groups at 16 is true for IVS, but drac will absolutely go past that, to say you don't is flat out bull ***, I have seen you at ash with 20+ people. You guys really need to let this group numbers obsession go.

Lol are you serious? Even our TS only has 20 slots XD

@Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO
I'm really trying to see where your point in any of this is. It seems like you want my aggression. Very well then.

Did you think calling out the GM on the forums for "rage whispering" one of your guys, and I'll say it, Vile, was going to make you look better? Because my stance as a GM means I should refrain from showing anger? Or maybe because you want to look like you're sitting on a high horse as Drac's GM. What a laughing stock.

Vile and I had a pleasant conversation in which we agreed that we would always disagree. If you want to classify THAT as rage tells we should really get into what your players say on almost a daily basis. But its ok because you run less numbers amirite.

I enforce my players to remain respectful and cordial with all opposition. Fact. I follow the same procedure. And when you produce a single SC of me saying anything hateful or hurtful the way your players do, then you can come at me on the forums. Lets try a less passive aggressive stance next time though mmk? Just be aggressive with me. This beta *** is weak, much like your guild.
See? Not so hard.

I've no patience nor pity for Drac. At all. Nor am I going to apologize for whispering Vile and jabbing at him. I said, quote, after a humiliating fight inside Glade, "You've done better." Playful at the least and honestly very true. I've seen very impressive play from Drac. Naturally it was followed by an immediate "numbers and blah blah blah we got zerged you cant gloat because group size and blah blah blah." Lol. Whatever.

Take some notes Izzy, if you're going to come at me, with 24, 16, 12, *** 6. Be prepared to lose. I don't give a literal ***. If you're going to try, you need to be prepared to fail. Without the excuse. You run your guild behind this pathetic veil of "we will run enough that if we win its impressive but if we lose its ok because we only run this many. It makes your victories just as meaningless as your wins. You have some of the best damn players on red, and you let them hide in this toxic mindset instead of encouraging them to finally be something more than they've been in the past 3 years. Your guild will die, and when its reborn (again), I hope the next leader does something the last few of you failed to do.

I run 24. I will always run 24. And when they change the group limit to 16 I'll run 16. I play the way the game is intended. Don't retaliate with "can't handle it" or "it shouldn't be." I don't have time for that weak minded beat around the bush ***. Fact, group size is 24. You also play on the EASIEST, yea, I'm going to say easiest, faction. Most guilds, most player base, most presence. I moved my entire guild before you knew what NA PvP was to help a faction stay in the game. Come play on DC if you want to really make a difference. Right now you're just a spec in a sea of red. Not that it doesn't suit you.(<-- See again)

Thanks for repeatedly calling out the GM in every post Izzy. You got him here. I don't talk ***, I don't take ***. I speak my mind and I never bite my tongue or play these little games you seem so fond of. I'll see you on the battlefield. Try coming at me in game next time. This forum pvp bores me so.
B

Fruitdog

lettuce

Publius_Scipio

ataggs

Fruitdog wrote: »

lettuce

That's a lettuce - "rap"

Elong

x99Needles wrote: »

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

Post has been active whilst I was at work

Satiar wrote: »

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

I'd be interested for you to quote the part from Anairi's post in which she says anything about EP not stacking to take back Chal at times.

Here ya go: " To be fair the only guild on EP side that occasionally runs 24m is Pact Militia whereas DC generally needs BOD and VE full groups (+overflows) stacked with AK and Pug guild + zone pugs, so it's not the same fashion, no "

This comment is talking about group sizes and full groups differences between the 2 factions nothing about Chalman. Try again if you would like to.

Satiar wrote: »

We both have people in our guilds who are quite passionate. If you want logs of rage whispers, I've got some seriously nasty stuff from your crew. Let he that is without sin, or so the saying goes. You tend to reap what you sow. VE is not perfect by any means but we've worked to silence or remove our bad actors and constantly tell our players to respect the opposition.

Sure show me a screenshot of Dracarys' GM rage whispering someone inside VE I'd be amazed.
You mention as a guild that you tell your players to respect the opposition yet your GM doesn't? Is it setting a good example?

I'm well aware of things some of my members have said and have also spoken out against doing this however after getting zerged down vs twice your numbers and then tbagged etc I can understand why tempers get a little frayed. I can't really understand it from the side of the larger group however.

Satiar wrote: »

As I've said before, I really don't care about group size. You get the fights you get and I fight them if I'm favored to win or not.

And as you know (as we have spoken in whisper) I'm of the same oppinion. That doesn't mean that I'm not gnna bring up the fact that I think its a poor playstyle to stack a full raid + and then also zerg surf.

Satiar wrote: »

I find that to be mostly nonsense. EP moves around in a giant blob. I regularly get on to find 3 guilds stacked inside Aleswell, and ALL THREE come to Bleakers and ALL THREE come to Chalman and ALL THREE come to Arius and ALL THREE come to Dragonclaw.

First some 'Math' of the 3 most prominent guilds for each faction:
EP: 16+16+24 = 56 + Pugs
DC: 37(according to one of the guys in your run the last time we fought) + 24 + 24 = 87 + Pugs

Now I'm sorry if you think 56vs87 is unfair for DC (as this post was inferring when first made and perpetuated by further comments about Chalman) but you can see why people might think this is a little deluded.

Satiar wrote: »

Ah well, my apologies. I wasn't aware my goal was winning you over. Personally, I've never found taking an outpost and farming there to be a particularly stunning accomplishment but I suppose we can have our own opinions.

Generally when people make an argument they do so in the hope that it alters the oppinions of those they are arguing with. Otherwise these people are just arguing for the sake of it.
Personally I value taking an outpost 16 v 40 a better accomplishment then taking chal 90 v 50. Just me I guess though

Satiar wrote: »

Nameplates and alliance indicators is always turned on, it's very handy to look over our footage and see 17+ people in a "16 man capped group"

I love to see footage of highlights from other guilds, if you make some more videos with all those clips of us being over 16 which you say you have I'd love to see it. Maybe a VE official channel?

Kilandros wrote: »

We all get faction blinders sometimes (ok, most of the time). That it's ZOS's fault we deal with unacceptable lag and loadscreens.

Agreed

Kilandros wrote: »

I can't control those pugs anymore than VE can.

I disagree here. You can start by not inviting them to your raid. Secondly you can run lower numbers so they make less of an impact to your size (e.g 16 instead of 24+) and Lastly you can go to a distant part of the map to create your own fight there instead of stacking with the rest of the guilds and pugs to 'ensure' they follow you. All are quite effective. Guilds in my experience know 90% of the time when they create their own fight or zerg surf.
(I'm referring to play in general not to any guilds in particular)

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

I believe capping groups at 16 is true for IVS, but drac will absolutely go past that, to say you don't is flat out bull ***, I have seen you at ash with 20+ people. You guys really need to let this group numbers obsession go.

Lol are you serious? Even our TS only has 20 slots XD

@Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO
I'm really trying to see where your point in any of this is. It seems like you want my aggression. Very well then.

Did you think calling out the GM on the forums for "rage whispering" one of your guys, and I'll say it, Vile, was going to make you look better? Because my stance as a GM means I should refrain from showing anger? Or maybe because you want to look like you're sitting on a high horse as Drac's GM. What a laughing stock.

Vile and I had a pleasant conversation in which we agreed that we would always disagree. If you want to classify THAT as rage tells we should really get into what your players say on almost a daily basis. But its ok because you run less numbers amirite.

I enforce my players to remain respectful and cordial with all opposition. Fact. I follow the same procedure. And when you produce a single SC of me saying anything hateful or hurtful the way your players do, then you can come at me on the forums. Lets try a less passive aggressive stance next time though mmk? Just be aggressive with me. This beta *** is weak, much like your guild.
See? Not so hard.

I've no patience nor pity for Drac. At all. Nor am I going to apologize for whispering Vile and jabbing at him. I said, quote, after a humiliating fight inside Glade, "You've done better." Playful at the least and honestly very true. I've seen very impressive play from Drac. Naturally it was followed by an immediate "numbers and blah blah blah we got zerged you cant gloat because group size and blah blah blah." Lol. Whatever.

Take some notes Izzy, if you're going to come at me, with 24, 16, 12, *** 6. Be prepared to lose. I don't give a literal ***. If you're going to try, you need to be prepared to fail. Without the excuse. You run your guild behind this pathetic veil of "we will run enough that if we win its impressive but if we lose its ok because we only run this many. It makes your victories just as meaningless as your wins. You have some of the best damn players on red, and you let them hide in this toxic mindset instead of encouraging them to finally be something more than they've been in the past 3 years. Your guild will die, and when its reborn (again), I hope the next leader does something the last few of you failed to do.

I run 24. I will always run 24. And when they change the group limit to 16 I'll run 16. I play the way the game is intended. Don't retaliate with "can't handle it" or "it shouldn't be." I don't have time for that weak minded beat around the bush ***. Fact, group size is 24. You also play on the EASIEST, yea, I'm going to say easiest, faction. Most guilds, most player base, most presence. I moved my entire guild before you knew what NA PvP was to help a faction stay in the game. Come play on DC if you want to really make a difference. Right now you're just a spec in a sea of red. Not that it doesn't suit you.(<-- See again)

Thanks for repeatedly calling out the GM in every post Izzy. You got him here. I don't talk ***, I don't take ***. I speak my mind and I never bite my tongue or play these little games you seem so fond of. I'll see you on the battlefield. Try coming at me in game next time. This forum pvp bores me so.
B

I know Bulb dislikes me and the feeling is very mutual, but that was one hell of a retort.

SwampRaider

Elong wrote: »

I know Bulb dislikes me and the feeling is very mutual, but that was one hell of a retort.

Lettuce Discuss this as we all romaine calm.

Reroll DC for some great fights!

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO

@x99Needles

Oh boy another VE horde to play with here too
Nice of you to take some of your time 'B'

Reading skills are often very important in life but i'll go easy on you don't participate often here.

I called out VE for tbagging and cheering after zerging us down 30 vs 14 with BoD on top of that (we had just wiped them and wiped a chunk of your '24' too.)
You're second then decided to try and reply that as a guild you tell people to show respect. To which I mentioned the fact that how can this be true if the GM acts with disrespect like this.
Seeing as your guys then decided not to respond to this I mentioned how interesting it was that they didn't. I hardly think this constitutes 'calling you out in every post' but you can think if it makes you feel better.

Now that you're caught up we can begin.

Throwing a lot of words at the screen doesn't constitute a good argument. Much like your leading style of "add people till you win".
The Beta thing is really cute, its amazing how many people actually think it works as an insult. Perhaps I'll try it the next time your '24' are sitting outside a tower or gate waiting for your pugs before you summon the courage to try a push against us.

Regardless of your numbers advantage we've all seen what happens when the two guilds get into an actual fight in an relatively equal situation which requires some tactics greater then 'WAIT FOR PUGS USE ULTIS'. So the whole 'Prepare to fail' line falls a bit short. (You should really let @Satiar lead more so you can get some more experience there he does a good job in those situations imo.)

I honestly wondered how far you would go with the whole '16 is just to have an excuse when you die' thing. It seems you're all really invested in it perhaps come up with something slighly less rant'y next guild meeting though... oh btw whats your excuse for when you die with 24+ I really hope its not 'we got zerged'.

I don't agree that the pinnacle of pvp in this game is running as many players as you can get together in one spot where all the other players on the map are so when you refer to "instead of encouraging them to finally be something more than they've been in the past 3 years." I'm not really sure what you mean.

I'll pass on your kind offer to join DC side, whilst you might like our help with things like emp pushes etc I'm sure you don't really need it


@Joy_Division
When I mentioned "When considering number in a keep you cannot compare pugs to organised groups." I didn't write, 'you can't count pugs'. There are some decent players playing solo / zerg surfing and defending I agree and their siege and ultis especially negates can add difficulty but in general pugs are not a challenge to a well put together coordinated group. Especially one so large with their own pugs behind them.

"I personally do not feel any sort of celebration, let alone stupid t-bagging or pointless whispering, is warranted in such a situation because the expectation was victory, but not everyone feels the way that I do." Agreed.

"My 102nd suggestion to improve PvP is that system automatically blocks any salt or rage comments that have to do with numbers because they are always the product of bias, selective memory, selective criteria, and hypocrisy. " - The overwatch system looks really good tbh and often hilarious.


@Ghost-Shot
I just realised you're referring to bulb when you say the word lettuce.
Is this actually his nickname with your guild XD? I guess it doesn't mean the same on NA as it does over here.


@Satiar
off cooldown yet?

Elong wrote: »

I know Bulb dislikes me and the feeling is very mutual, but that was one hell of a retort.

We have different levels of expectation lol

Fruitdog

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

@Ghost-Shot
I just realised you're referring to bulb when you say the word lettuce.
Is this actually his nickname with your guild XD? I guess it doesn't mean the same on NA as it does over here.

oh boy, memes incoming

what it feels like to PVE with bulb

Rin_Senya

Wow @x99Needles some really top quality hysterics there! Didn't expect it from VE members when I mentioned the Chalman fights!

x99Needles wrote: »

@Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO
I'm really trying to see where your point in any of this is. It seems like you want my aggression. Very well then.

Did you think calling out the GM on the forums for "rage whispering" one of your guys, and I'll say it, Vile, was going to make you look better? Because my stance as a GM means I should refrain from showing anger? Or maybe because you want to look like you're sitting on a high horse as Drac's GM. What a laughing stock.

Vile and I had a pleasant conversation in which we agreed that we would always disagree. If you want to classify THAT as rage tells we should really get into what your players say on almost a daily basis. But its ok because you run less numbers amirite.

I enforce my players to remain respectful and cordial with all opposition. Fact. I follow the same procedure. And when you produce a single SC of me saying anything hateful or hurtful the way your players do, then you can come at me on the forums. Lets try a less passive aggressive stance next time though mmk? Just be aggressive with me. This beta *** is weak, much like your guild.
See? Not so hard.

I've no patience nor pity for Drac. At all. Nor am I going to apologize for whispering Vile and jabbing at him. I said, quote, after a humiliating fight inside Glade, "You've done better." Playful at the least and honestly very true. I've seen very impressive play from Drac. Naturally it was followed by an immediate "numbers and blah blah blah we got zerged you cant gloat because group size and blah blah blah." Lol. Whatever.

Take some notes Izzy, if you're going to come at me, with 24, 16, 12, *** 6. Be prepared to lose. I don't give a literal ***. If you're going to try, you need to be prepared to fail. Without the excuse. You run your guild behind this pathetic veil of "we will run enough that if we win its impressive but if we lose its ok because we only run this many. It makes your victories just as meaningless as your wins. You have some of the best damn players on red, and you let them hide in this toxic mindset instead of encouraging them to finally be something more than they've been in the past 3 years. Your guild will die, and when its reborn (again), I hope the next leader does something the last few of you failed to do.

I run 24. I will always run 24. And when they change the group limit to 16 I'll run 16. I play the way the game is intended. Don't retaliate with "can't handle it" or "it shouldn't be." I don't have time for that weak minded beat around the bush ***. Fact, group size is 24. You also play on the EASIEST, yea, I'm going to say easiest, faction. Most guilds, most player base, most presence. I moved my entire guild before you knew what NA PvP was to help a faction stay in the game. Come play on DC if you want to really make a difference. Right now you're just a spec in a sea of red. Not that it doesn't suit you.(<-- See again)

Thanks for repeatedly calling out the GM in every post Izzy. You got him here. I don't talk ***, I don't take ***. I speak my mind and I never bite my tongue or play these little games you seem so fond of. I'll see you on the battlefield. Try coming at me in game next time. This forum pvp bores me so.
B

Come GVG us if you feel so confident against us (we offered it many times!) and we will see who will fail

Agrippa_Invisus

This thread is better PVP than ESO is offering to us at this point.

I'm just gonna sit back, put my feet up, and observe.

HoloYoitsu

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

Throwing a lot of words at the screen doesn't constitute a good argument.

You don't say???

You know Izzy, you seem to be starting to descend into more and more emotionally driven diatribe re: bagging or supposed trash talking. That's nice and all, but I don't get what the point of you trying to hold that over people's heads is when you continue to neglect to provide screenshots of said conversations (which you yourself imply to having). Not trying to bait you into violating any TOS, you can edit out names/expletives and still show the screens, or just PM them to one of our officers.

You can't say that we "refuse to address" that point when we are literally asking you for the evidence.

As far as bagging goes, you aren't really on a position to complain when your guildies literally do the exact same thing you are acting indignant over. Not that I have a problem wth bagging or getting bagged to begin with, it's just part of the competitive spirit and a simple troll.

Telel

SwampRaider wrote: »

Elong wrote: »

I know Bulb dislikes me and the feeling is very mutual, but that was one hell of a retort.

Lettuce Discuss this as we all romaine calm.

Reroll DC for some great fights!

This one was unsure if you meant great fights because you'd have a lot of guys who felt really good about anything they accomplished. Positivity is key to fun after all.

Or did you mean Great fights because you have opponents so skilled they require a...reasonably sized bloop group. Per opponent

Or was that just a comment about who has the most engaging zone chat?

On the other hand if one wishes to get okay fights, and be in the faction where a 'terrible zergbaddy who only zergling zergs' player is apparently worth a dozen 'good' players from the other team then this one cane make a recommendation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7h89u8GqWmA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GG2KXkuaz20&amp;t=19s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yUeAwn4rpkM

Rohamad_Ali

Winnamine

When ZoS makes Cyrodiil pvp as exciting as forum pvp, we'll really have something here!

ataggs

I guess this is a mute point if EP loses the campaign even with the better numbers

DisgracefulMind

Oh w0w this thread is exciting O:

Nivellan

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Rin_Senya wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Rin_Senya wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Rin_Senya wrote: »

To be fair the only time NA DC can actually take Chalman is when they literally stack 3-4 guilds there with all DC pugs lol xD or by PVDooring it...

To be fair, we only lose it in exactly the same fashion.

To be fair the only guild on EP side that occasionally runs 24m is Pact Militia whereas DC generally needs BOD and VE full groups (+overflows) stacked with AK and Pug guild + zone pugs, so it's not the same fashion, no

Ah right. EP doesn't zerg. It's just those dastardly DC and AD.

I don't know if your ego is just that big or if your eyes have failed you, but either way some introspection may be required.

If you re-read my post you will see that I've never said that EP doesn't zerg, in fact in the past posts (on Dracarys thread) I've said exactly that "All players zerg with their factions (some occasionally some more often)".

I'm simply responding to the fact that someone commented that EP lose Chalman all the time. The only reason EP loses Chalman is because DC guilds faction stack their full 24m+ raids together to take it instead of these guilds spreading out over the map to push different objectives and fight their own fights.

However it’s really interesting to see that as soon as someone mentions certain guilds, which are always faction stacking, players in those guilds hide behind the "everyone zergs" tag.

My eyes can see perfectly well when I'm zerged down by 24-40 people in a coordinated raid stacking with a second coordinated raid and pugs compared to when i'm fighting 40 pugs. The pugs have no excuse but the guilds claiming victory and that their opponents suck at defending when there only way a keep can be taken is via PVD or an entire faction stack vs generally some pugs / small groups definately has some "introspection" to do (I'm talking about all factions, not only DC).

I read your post quite closely. You quite clearly stated DC needs to raid stack to take Chalman but EP doesn't. Then started waxing on about how many numbers people run. It's some nonsense and I really expect better from long time players.

I'd be interested for you to quote the part from Anairi's post in which she says anything about EP not stacking to take back Chal at times.

Satiar wrote: »

More to the original point, EP pretty much PvEdoors Chalman to take it back. During primetime I'd say a solid 90% of the time. I know this because I'm usually the group at Roebeck seeing Chal flag 20/20 and arriving justtttt in time to see the front door goes up. DC doesn't know how to scout or defend keeps. 'Tis what it is. Hard to take and then instantly forgotten about.

A full VE raid had absolutely no qualms about sitting in Chalman with BoD, AK and Pugs the entire night not so long ago (to the detriment of the rest of the DC map) so your comment that you are normally at Roe is a little cynical.

As you have mentioned in the past you aren't in control of what the raid does when you don't lead, thats fair enough but it doesn't change what the raid you play in is doing or when your players will tbag, /cheer and rage whisper after zerging down a 14m group being 24+overflow.

Satiar wrote: »

You might also want to brush up on your DC groups. AD and EP are the only factions actually capable of bringing multiple stacked groups to an engagement. I can't even remember the last time I had a full raid online at the same time as BoD, most of the time I'm asking what they've got and I hear "9 people".

I suggest you turn character nameplates and alliance indicators to always on. BoD is generally at least twice that size when VE is running a full raid. Also having 23 people doesn't negate the 'full group' argument.

Satiar wrote: »

I've seen Invictus, Drac and PM all on at the same time, 3 organized groups that can comfortably stomp on most of the groups they'll encounter IN ADDITION to a PR raid + pugs nearby. That's alot more than DC can bring forward at any one time, which is why I double take at your "DC faction stacking 24 man raids" bit.

IVS and Drac only run 16 max and PM hasn't had a raid over 24 in a long time (to my knowledge). Generally if IVS or Drac is present somewhere the other guild goes in the opposite direction because it should be enough to achieve anything required just having one guild there. I can't say this is the same for DC.
Sure there are times when I see both raids in one place too. Generally because the entirety of DC is at that location to begin with and has been for some time and the other EP raid goes there to finish the fight because the lag is unbearable for the rest of the map.


I've been impressed by VE occasionally going to Sej / BRK whilst chal is red recently but until your standard procedure is to separate from the rest of your guilds in a similar way as the other factions do I can't be won over sorry.

I believe capping groups at 16 is true for IVS, but drac will absolutely go past that, to say you don't is flat out bull ***, I have seen you at ash with 20+ people. You guys really need to let this group numbers obsession go.

DisgracefulMind

Nivellan wrote: »

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Rin_Senya wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Rin_Senya wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Rin_Senya wrote: »

To be fair the only time NA DC can actually take Chalman is when they literally stack 3-4 guilds there with all DC pugs lol xD or by PVDooring it...

To be fair, we only lose it in exactly the same fashion.

To be fair the only guild on EP side that occasionally runs 24m is Pact Militia whereas DC generally needs BOD and VE full groups (+overflows) stacked with AK and Pug guild + zone pugs, so it's not the same fashion, no

Ah right. EP doesn't zerg. It's just those dastardly DC and AD.

I don't know if your ego is just that big or if your eyes have failed you, but either way some introspection may be required.

If you re-read my post you will see that I've never said that EP doesn't zerg, in fact in the past posts (on Dracarys thread) I've said exactly that "All players zerg with their factions (some occasionally some more often)".

I'm simply responding to the fact that someone commented that EP lose Chalman all the time. The only reason EP loses Chalman is because DC guilds faction stack their full 24m+ raids together to take it instead of these guilds spreading out over the map to push different objectives and fight their own fights.

However it’s really interesting to see that as soon as someone mentions certain guilds, which are always faction stacking, players in those guilds hide behind the "everyone zergs" tag.

My eyes can see perfectly well when I'm zerged down by 24-40 people in a coordinated raid stacking with a second coordinated raid and pugs compared to when i'm fighting 40 pugs. The pugs have no excuse but the guilds claiming victory and that their opponents suck at defending when there only way a keep can be taken is via PVD or an entire faction stack vs generally some pugs / small groups definately has some "introspection" to do (I'm talking about all factions, not only DC).

I read your post quite closely. You quite clearly stated DC needs to raid stack to take Chalman but EP doesn't. Then started waxing on about how many numbers people run. It's some nonsense and I really expect better from long time players.

I'd be interested for you to quote the part from Anairi's post in which she says anything about EP not stacking to take back Chal at times.

Satiar wrote: »

More to the original point, EP pretty much PvEdoors Chalman to take it back. During primetime I'd say a solid 90% of the time. I know this because I'm usually the group at Roebeck seeing Chal flag 20/20 and arriving justtttt in time to see the front door goes up. DC doesn't know how to scout or defend keeps. 'Tis what it is. Hard to take and then instantly forgotten about.

A full VE raid had absolutely no qualms about sitting in Chalman with BoD, AK and Pugs the entire night not so long ago (to the detriment of the rest of the DC map) so your comment that you are normally at Roe is a little cynical.

As you have mentioned in the past you aren't in control of what the raid does when you don't lead, thats fair enough but it doesn't change what the raid you play in is doing or when your players will tbag, /cheer and rage whisper after zerging down a 14m group being 24+overflow.

Satiar wrote: »

You might also want to brush up on your DC groups. AD and EP are the only factions actually capable of bringing multiple stacked groups to an engagement. I can't even remember the last time I had a full raid online at the same time as BoD, most of the time I'm asking what they've got and I hear "9 people".

I suggest you turn character nameplates and alliance indicators to always on. BoD is generally at least twice that size when VE is running a full raid. Also having 23 people doesn't negate the 'full group' argument.

Satiar wrote: »

I've seen Invictus, Drac and PM all on at the same time, 3 organized groups that can comfortably stomp on most of the groups they'll encounter IN ADDITION to a PR raid + pugs nearby. That's alot more than DC can bring forward at any one time, which is why I double take at your "DC faction stacking 24 man raids" bit.

IVS and Drac only run 16 max and PM hasn't had a raid over 24 in a long time (to my knowledge). Generally if IVS or Drac is present somewhere the other guild goes in the opposite direction because it should be enough to achieve anything required just having one guild there. I can't say this is the same for DC.
Sure there are times when I see both raids in one place too. Generally because the entirety of DC is at that location to begin with and has been for some time and the other EP raid goes there to finish the fight because the lag is unbearable for the rest of the map.


I've been impressed by VE occasionally going to Sej / BRK whilst chal is red recently but until your standard procedure is to separate from the rest of your guilds in a similar way as the other factions do I can't be won over sorry.

I believe capping groups at 16 is true for IVS, but drac will absolutely go past that, to say you don't is flat out bull ***, I have seen you at ash with 20+ people. You guys really need to let this group numbers obsession go.

ooo i remember that, that was a long time ago, but that wasn't really an invictus group. that was a fair weather friends mixed with ivs people group with a haxus friend included. =P

There are rare times that we play with all our friends from everywhere, ya know.

Abram

Rin_Senya wrote: »

Come GVG us if you feel so confident against us (we offered it many times!) and we will see who will fail

In my opinion, and I think most experienced players would agree, all the salt and arguments come down to whose tactics and players are better, or more effective. Why do we not put an end to the argument and just get a Guild vs Guild fight? I honestly think it will ease a lot of the salt on both sides. Its like when you get in an IRL fight with someone, you shake hands after and move on. Lets spend less time fighting on the forums and more time actually settling the debate.

I have no love for Crispen or Steve, I dislike the way that they play, but I have respect for them now because I ran into them in Stormhaven a couple of months ago and they manned up and accepted my duel challenge. We will always disagree on tactics and etiquette, but showing up for a fair fight earns some respect from me.

Kilandros

Nivellan wrote: »

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Rin_Senya wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Rin_Senya wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Rin_Senya wrote: »

To be fair the only time NA DC can actually take Chalman is when they literally stack 3-4 guilds there with all DC pugs lol xD or by PVDooring it...

To be fair, we only lose it in exactly the same fashion.

To be fair the only guild on EP side that occasionally runs 24m is Pact Militia whereas DC generally needs BOD and VE full groups (+overflows) stacked with AK and Pug guild + zone pugs, so it's not the same fashion, no

Ah right. EP doesn't zerg. It's just those dastardly DC and AD.

I don't know if your ego is just that big or if your eyes have failed you, but either way some introspection may be required.

If you re-read my post you will see that I've never said that EP doesn't zerg, in fact in the past posts (on Dracarys thread) I've said exactly that "All players zerg with their factions (some occasionally some more often)".

I'm simply responding to the fact that someone commented that EP lose Chalman all the time. The only reason EP loses Chalman is because DC guilds faction stack their full 24m+ raids together to take it instead of these guilds spreading out over the map to push different objectives and fight their own fights.

However it’s really interesting to see that as soon as someone mentions certain guilds, which are always faction stacking, players in those guilds hide behind the "everyone zergs" tag.

My eyes can see perfectly well when I'm zerged down by 24-40 people in a coordinated raid stacking with a second coordinated raid and pugs compared to when i'm fighting 40 pugs. The pugs have no excuse but the guilds claiming victory and that their opponents suck at defending when there only way a keep can be taken is via PVD or an entire faction stack vs generally some pugs / small groups definately has some "introspection" to do (I'm talking about all factions, not only DC).

I read your post quite closely. You quite clearly stated DC needs to raid stack to take Chalman but EP doesn't. Then started waxing on about how many numbers people run. It's some nonsense and I really expect better from long time players.

I'd be interested for you to quote the part from Anairi's post in which she says anything about EP not stacking to take back Chal at times.

Satiar wrote: »

More to the original point, EP pretty much PvEdoors Chalman to take it back. During primetime I'd say a solid 90% of the time. I know this because I'm usually the group at Roebeck seeing Chal flag 20/20 and arriving justtttt in time to see the front door goes up. DC doesn't know how to scout or defend keeps. 'Tis what it is. Hard to take and then instantly forgotten about.

A full VE raid had absolutely no qualms about sitting in Chalman with BoD, AK and Pugs the entire night not so long ago (to the detriment of the rest of the DC map) so your comment that you are normally at Roe is a little cynical.

As you have mentioned in the past you aren't in control of what the raid does when you don't lead, thats fair enough but it doesn't change what the raid you play in is doing or when your players will tbag, /cheer and rage whisper after zerging down a 14m group being 24+overflow.

Satiar wrote: »

You might also want to brush up on your DC groups. AD and EP are the only factions actually capable of bringing multiple stacked groups to an engagement. I can't even remember the last time I had a full raid online at the same time as BoD, most of the time I'm asking what they've got and I hear "9 people".

I suggest you turn character nameplates and alliance indicators to always on. BoD is generally at least twice that size when VE is running a full raid. Also having 23 people doesn't negate the 'full group' argument.

Satiar wrote: »

I've seen Invictus, Drac and PM all on at the same time, 3 organized groups that can comfortably stomp on most of the groups they'll encounter IN ADDITION to a PR raid + pugs nearby. That's alot more than DC can bring forward at any one time, which is why I double take at your "DC faction stacking 24 man raids" bit.

IVS and Drac only run 16 max and PM hasn't had a raid over 24 in a long time (to my knowledge). Generally if IVS or Drac is present somewhere the other guild goes in the opposite direction because it should be enough to achieve anything required just having one guild there. I can't say this is the same for DC.
Sure there are times when I see both raids in one place too. Generally because the entirety of DC is at that location to begin with and has been for some time and the other EP raid goes there to finish the fight because the lag is unbearable for the rest of the map.


I've been impressed by VE occasionally going to Sej / BRK whilst chal is red recently but until your standard procedure is to separate from the rest of your guilds in a similar way as the other factions do I can't be won over sorry.

I believe capping groups at 16 is true for IVS, but drac will absolutely go past that, to say you don't is flat out bull ***, I have seen you at ash with 20+ people. You guys really need to let this group numbers obsession go.

There are IVS people in there but that's pretty clearly not a guild group. Am curious to know who you are now - there are only a couple of people I can think of who would actually surf through old footage to pull a screen grab just to try to dispute our claim that we run 16.

Elong

Kilandros wrote: »

Nivellan wrote: »

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Rin_Senya wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Rin_Senya wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Rin_Senya wrote: »

To be fair the only time NA DC can actually take Chalman is when they literally stack 3-4 guilds there with all DC pugs lol xD or by PVDooring it...

To be fair, we only lose it in exactly the same fashion.

To be fair the only guild on EP side that occasionally runs 24m is Pact Militia whereas DC generally needs BOD and VE full groups (+overflows) stacked with AK and Pug guild + zone pugs, so it's not the same fashion, no

Ah right. EP doesn't zerg. It's just those dastardly DC and AD.

I don't know if your ego is just that big or if your eyes have failed you, but either way some introspection may be required.

If you re-read my post you will see that I've never said that EP doesn't zerg, in fact in the past posts (on Dracarys thread) I've said exactly that "All players zerg with their factions (some occasionally some more often)".

I'm simply responding to the fact that someone commented that EP lose Chalman all the time. The only reason EP loses Chalman is because DC guilds faction stack their full 24m+ raids together to take it instead of these guilds spreading out over the map to push different objectives and fight their own fights.

However it’s really interesting to see that as soon as someone mentions certain guilds, which are always faction stacking, players in those guilds hide behind the "everyone zergs" tag.

My eyes can see perfectly well when I'm zerged down by 24-40 people in a coordinated raid stacking with a second coordinated raid and pugs compared to when i'm fighting 40 pugs. The pugs have no excuse but the guilds claiming victory and that their opponents suck at defending when there only way a keep can be taken is via PVD or an entire faction stack vs generally some pugs / small groups definately has some "introspection" to do (I'm talking about all factions, not only DC).

I read your post quite closely. You quite clearly stated DC needs to raid stack to take Chalman but EP doesn't. Then started waxing on about how many numbers people run. It's some nonsense and I really expect better from long time players.

I'd be interested for you to quote the part from Anairi's post in which she says anything about EP not stacking to take back Chal at times.

Satiar wrote: »

More to the original point, EP pretty much PvEdoors Chalman to take it back. During primetime I'd say a solid 90% of the time. I know this because I'm usually the group at Roebeck seeing Chal flag 20/20 and arriving justtttt in time to see the front door goes up. DC doesn't know how to scout or defend keeps. 'Tis what it is. Hard to take and then instantly forgotten about.

A full VE raid had absolutely no qualms about sitting in Chalman with BoD, AK and Pugs the entire night not so long ago (to the detriment of the rest of the DC map) so your comment that you are normally at Roe is a little cynical.

As you have mentioned in the past you aren't in control of what the raid does when you don't lead, thats fair enough but it doesn't change what the raid you play in is doing or when your players will tbag, /cheer and rage whisper after zerging down a 14m group being 24+overflow.

Satiar wrote: »

You might also want to brush up on your DC groups. AD and EP are the only factions actually capable of bringing multiple stacked groups to an engagement. I can't even remember the last time I had a full raid online at the same time as BoD, most of the time I'm asking what they've got and I hear "9 people".

I suggest you turn character nameplates and alliance indicators to always on. BoD is generally at least twice that size when VE is running a full raid. Also having 23 people doesn't negate the 'full group' argument.

Satiar wrote: »

I've seen Invictus, Drac and PM all on at the same time, 3 organized groups that can comfortably stomp on most of the groups they'll encounter IN ADDITION to a PR raid + pugs nearby. That's alot more than DC can bring forward at any one time, which is why I double take at your "DC faction stacking 24 man raids" bit.

IVS and Drac only run 16 max and PM hasn't had a raid over 24 in a long time (to my knowledge). Generally if IVS or Drac is present somewhere the other guild goes in the opposite direction because it should be enough to achieve anything required just having one guild there. I can't say this is the same for DC.
Sure there are times when I see both raids in one place too. Generally because the entirety of DC is at that location to begin with and has been for some time and the other EP raid goes there to finish the fight because the lag is unbearable for the rest of the map.


I've been impressed by VE occasionally going to Sej / BRK whilst chal is red recently but until your standard procedure is to separate from the rest of your guilds in a similar way as the other factions do I can't be won over sorry.

I believe capping groups at 16 is true for IVS, but drac will absolutely go past that, to say you don't is flat out bull ***, I have seen you at ash with 20+ people. You guys really need to let this group numbers obsession go.

There are IVS people in there but that's pretty clearly not a guild group. Am curious to know who you are now - there are only a couple of people I can think of who would actually surf through old footage to pull a screen grab just to try to dispute our claim that we run 16.

Probably AOE BBQ's 4th forum account lmao.