The increasing numbers of the EP Faction.

Joy_Division

When I read these threads, sometimes I think people are talking about the EU server or Sotha Sil.

I play EP and DC and know what happens at Chalman from both perspectives. 40+ DC Vs. 40+ EP is common

DisgracefulMind

Satiar wrote: »

I find that to be mostly nonsense. EP moves around in a giant blob. I regularly get on to find 3 guilds stacked inside Aleswell, and ALL THREE come to Bleakers and ALL THREE come to Chalman and ALL THREE come to Arius and ALL THREE come to Dragonclaw. It's an almost foolproof method of getting Aleswell back, just go literally anywhere else and EP will horde there, small man, "16 man capped groups" and full raids alike. Or it would be foolproof, if there was another guild that consistently had the numbers online to take things when another guild pushes.

DC has up times and down times, but in terms of groups that are regularly on the map and have the numbers to push? It's a serious down cycle. Saramis doesn't run the numbers he used to as often as he used to. I wish he did.

I mean, we only run 3 times a week, and any other groups you see are typically ZDM, which has quite a few IVS members in it. We try to spread out as much as we can, but we've gotta help defend our map when we can too, ya know? We do cap at 16, but I'd say 12-14 is our more common number.

But at the end of the day, everyone does the same stuff mostly. Can't we all just accept that? If we go to Aleswell, for example, and you guys go there and so does another raid, we expect that because it's your home keep. Just as you all should expect the same if you show up at our home keep. The only home keep EP seems to ignore in primetime is King's because it gets flipped like 1 million times a day, and we just go flip it back eventually for the free AP. /:

Also, sidenote, but I think it's cool you guys have been going across the map too. Omgosh if only you guys played early morning tho, there's been a juicy poplocked AD faction running around in a MASSIVE blob xD

Satiar

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

I find that to be mostly nonsense. EP moves around in a giant blob. I regularly get on to find 3 guilds stacked inside Aleswell, and ALL THREE come to Bleakers and ALL THREE come to Chalman and ALL THREE come to Arius and ALL THREE come to Dragonclaw. It's an almost foolproof method of getting Aleswell back, just go literally anywhere else and EP will horde there, small man, "16 man capped groups" and full raids alike. Or it would be foolproof, if there was another guild that consistently had the numbers online to take things when another guild pushes.

DC has up times and down times, but in terms of groups that are regularly on the map and have the numbers to push? It's a serious down cycle. Saramis doesn't run the numbers he used to as often as he used to. I wish he did.

I mean, we only run 3 times a week, and any other groups you see are typically ZDM, which has quite a few IVS members in it. We try to spread out as much as we can, but we've gotta help defend our map when we can too, ya know? We do cap at 16, but I'd say 12-14 is our more common number.

But at the end of the day, everyone does the same stuff mostly. Can't we all just accept that? If we go to Aleswell, for example, and you guys go there and so does another raid, we expect that because it's your home keep. Just as you all should expect the same if you show up at our home keep. The only home keep EP seems to ignore in primetime is King's because it gets flipped like 1 million times a day, and we just go flip it back eventually for the free AP. /:

Also, sidenote, but I think it's cool you guys have been going across the map too. Omgosh if only you guys played early morning tho, there's been a juicy poplocked AD faction running around in a MASSIVE blob xD

Yea Karstyl I don't mind this stuff, I've been at this a while, it's all good. It just kinda comes out when someone gets on the high horse I guess. I'm guilty of the same tho on occasion, so I suppose it comes around

Humphie

Joy_Division wrote: »

When I read these threads, sometimes I think people are talking about the EU server or Sotha Sil.

I play EP and DC and know what happens at Chalman from both perspectives. 40+ DC Vs. 40+ EP is common

Can't be Sotha...Sotha usually 40 DC vs 5 EP.

kijima

It's pretty simple, EP is the new AD.

SwampRaider

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Also, sidenote, but I think it's cool you guys have been going across the map too. Omgosh if only you guys played early morning tho, there's been a juicy poplocked AD faction running around in a MASSIVE blob xD

Pushing us when AD has a massive blob, hurts my feelings :;(. Pugs in zone chat can't handle an AD blob+ EP hitting rayles,glade.warden.

Even with a massive blob, AD tends to avoid EP and goes to DC. The map triggers me when that happens lol, It's like AD and EP have a hard on for us


tbh. 90% of DC's problems would be solved, IF AND ONLY IF the 30 DC that think bleakers to Chalamo fights is map control...learn how to play and fight somewhere else

Lucky28

SwampRaider wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Also, sidenote, but I think it's cool you guys have been going across the map too. Omgosh if only you guys played early morning tho, there's been a juicy poplocked AD faction running around in a MASSIVE blob xD

Pushing us when AD has a massive blob, hurts my feelings :;(. Pugs in zone chat can't handle an AD blob+ EP hitting rayles,glade.warden.

Even with a massive blob, AD tends to avoid EP and goes to DC. The map triggers me when that happens lol, It's like AD and EP have a hard on for us


tbh. 90% of DC's problems would be solved, IF AND ONLY IF the 30 DC that think bleakers to Chalamo fights is map control...learn how to play and fight somewhere else

sorry but that literally only happens because DC are so *** dumb when it comes to chal. they'll send wave after wave of DC to chal and literally let AD cap all their *** behind them. that's DC own fault man, they give AD that opening.

Kilandros

We all get faction blinders sometimes (ok, most of the time). But it's important to remember it's all a matter of perspective; That it's ZOS's fault we deal with unacceptable lag and loadscreens. That guilds like VE and Drac and BoD and IVS are all just playing the game as it was designed to be played.

I know I've been frustrated with other guilds for what I perceive is an effort to faction stack, etc. etc. But even I have to admit that most of the time it's me with my own faction blinders on. How many times has Invictus, with its cap of 16, had several pugs in tow making us look larger? Pretty often I imagine. In fact, I think we had Basbor glued to us for about 2 months straight. I can't control those pugs anymore than VE can.

Last thing: but the Bleakers corridor is just way more conducive to fights than Nikel or Sej. Nikel is too open field in both directions, while Sej is basically a fight at the bridge with people running to the bridge from Alessia or Sej depending on who controls it. It's hard to blame people for naturally gravitating to an area that provides good LoS and terrain for fighting all the way from Chal to Aleswell. That alone is a big reason why so many EP and DC are constantly pushing back and forth there. As a natural consequence of that ebb and flow, you get big stacks at Chal and Aleswell.

Rickter

Kilandros wrote: »

We all get faction blinders sometimes (ok, most of the time). But it's important to remember it's all a matter of perspective; That it's ZOS's fault we deal with unacceptable lag and loadscreens. That guilds like VE and Drac and BoD and IVS are all just playing the game as it was designed to be played.

I know I've been frustrated with other guilds for what I perceive is an effort to faction stack, etc. etc. But even I have to admit that most of the time it's me with my own faction blinders on. How many times has Invictus, with its cap of 16, had several pugs in tow making us look larger? Pretty often I imagine. In fact, I think we had Basbor glued to us for about 2 months straight. I can't control those pugs anymore than VE can.

Last thing: but the Bleakers corridor is just way more conducive to fights than Nikel or Sej. Nikel is too open field in both directions, while Sej is basically a fight at the bridge with people running to the bridge from Alessia or Sej depending on who controls it. It's hard to blame people for naturally gravitating to an area that provides good LoS and terrain for fighting all the way from Chal to Aleswell. That alone is a big reason why so many EP and DC are constantly pushing back and forth there. As a natural consequence of that ebb and flow, you get big stacks at Chal and Aleswell.

This was actually very well written and provided some really good perspective! thank you for taking the time to write this up Kilandros. Ive always wondered about the constant "Chalamo" and I think this is the first time it was really explained in this way!

CyrusArya

Lol, haxus pug zergers accusing others of guild and faction stacking. Some people are so oblivious.

DisgracefulMind

SwampRaider wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Also, sidenote, but I think it's cool you guys have been going across the map too. Omgosh if only you guys played early morning tho, there's been a juicy poplocked AD faction running around in a MASSIVE blob xD

Pushing us when AD has a massive blob, hurts my feelings :;(. Pugs in zone chat can't handle an AD blob+ EP hitting rayles,glade.warden.

Even with a massive blob, AD tends to avoid EP and goes to DC. The map triggers me when that happens lol, It's like AD and EP have a hard on for us


tbh. 90% of DC's problems would be solved, IF AND ONLY IF the 30 DC that think bleakers to Chalamo fights is map control...learn how to play and fight somewhere else

I was talking about the early morning AD blob that's been on recently. There's rarely an organized guild on during that time and I don't see EP pushing DC while trying to fight the megahoard.

You have to take off the goggles, man. Same thing happens to EP. DC won't have Ash and you will all push EP at Chal while we get pushed by AD at BRK. Same happens if the EP pugs go to Aleswell and don't have BRK. It's not just a one-sided thing here. Your faction does some really dumb things, just like my faction does, and just like the AD faction does. The AD blob doesn't ignore EP, ever. Why do you think we make so much AP on the EP side?

And yes, your pugs think of Bleakers like our pugs think of the bridge.

Agrippa_Invisus

Words.

Nevermind

scipionumatia

NACtron wrote: »

I have talked to a guild this week (which I will not name) and a few players that has considered moving over to EP. Their reasons are:
1. EP has a very non toxic community in comparison to other factions. We have our fair share of trolls but we have noticably better environment in zone.
2. Low Morale due to campaign loss. (I personally think they just need to not focus on map control so much, let campaign scoring go a bit.)
3. The momentum is with EP. We have two wins in a row under our belt with a solid list of guilds from the casual to the organized to the elite.


In my opinion players and guilds should NOT join EP cause:
1. EP's que is awful. Absolutely awful on vivec. The average que is 50-80 on a weeknight since Morrowind. I'm hoping players will leave ep or join other campaigns for this reason.
2. The other factions (In particular AD) need help on Vivec. Desperately. Grow where you are planted. If you want to be EP help make your faction more like it.
3. There is little room for growth. EP has so many guilds jf you are looking to recruit new players you will find a few but there are already two guilds on average a night recruiting daily in zone chat and more organized guilds like mine (Pact Militia) Drac and Invictus. There is also little room to find good fights without running into one of us.

wait wait wait.... we have the LEAST toxic community? lol AD and DC must be sewer water toxic bahahahaha

Joy_Division

Kilandros wrote: »

We all get faction blinders sometimes (ok, most of the time). But it's important to remember it's all a matter of perspective; That it's ZOS's fault we deal with unacceptable lag and loadscreens. That guilds like VE and Drac and BoD and IVS are all just playing the game as it was designed to be played.

I know I've been frustrated with other guilds for what I perceive is an effort to faction stack, etc. etc. But even I have to admit that most of the time it's me with my own faction blinders on. How many times has Invictus, with its cap of 16, had several pugs in tow making us look larger? Pretty often I imagine. In fact, I think we had Basbor glued to us for about 2 months straight. I can't control those pugs anymore than VE can.

Last thing: but the Bleakers corridor is just way more conducive to fights than Nikel or Sej. Nikel is too open field in both directions, while Sej is basically a fight at the bridge with people running to the bridge from Alessia or Sej depending on who controls it. It's hard to blame people for naturally gravitating to an area that provides good LoS and terrain for fighting all the way from Chal to Aleswell. That alone is a big reason why so many EP and DC are constantly pushing back and forth there. As a natural consequence of that ebb and flow, you get big stacks at Chal and Aleswell.

Insightful.

People are probably going to throw rotten vegetables at me for saying this, but when I am on EP and I see in zone chat "DC faction stack Chal," I immediately stop what I am doing and get to Chalman because I anticipate a lot of fun. The feeling I get when I pour oil on the gaggle of indecisive Smurfs over the inner breech is priceless. As far as I am concerned, the more the merrier (and the more AP).

As someone who probably has gone through over 1000 oil pots, IMHO these are the best three oil AP farms.

1. Chalman Inner West breech.
2. Alessia Bridge, Alessia side.
3. Best I think: Sejanus, south side Vs. AD. This one is really good because even if some sneaky AD sets up a fire treb to hit you, she has to do so on the North side and often gets ganked.

Agrippa_Invisus

Joy_Division wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

We all get faction blinders sometimes (ok, most of the time). But it's important to remember it's all a matter of perspective; That it's ZOS's fault we deal with unacceptable lag and loadscreens. That guilds like VE and Drac and BoD and IVS are all just playing the game as it was designed to be played.

I know I've been frustrated with other guilds for what I perceive is an effort to faction stack, etc. etc. But even I have to admit that most of the time it's me with my own faction blinders on. How many times has Invictus, with its cap of 16, had several pugs in tow making us look larger? Pretty often I imagine. In fact, I think we had Basbor glued to us for about 2 months straight. I can't control those pugs anymore than VE can.

Last thing: but the Bleakers corridor is just way more conducive to fights than Nikel or Sej. Nikel is too open field in both directions, while Sej is basically a fight at the bridge with people running to the bridge from Alessia or Sej depending on who controls it. It's hard to blame people for naturally gravitating to an area that provides good LoS and terrain for fighting all the way from Chal to Aleswell. That alone is a big reason why so many EP and DC are constantly pushing back and forth there. As a natural consequence of that ebb and flow, you get big stacks at Chal and Aleswell.

Insightful.

People are probably going to throw rotten vegetables at me for saying this, but when I am on EP and I see in zone chat "DC faction stack Chal," I immediately stop what I am doing and get to Chalman because I anticipate a lot of fun. The feeling I get when I pour oil on the gaggle of indecisive Smurfs over the inner breech is priceless. As far as I am concerned, the more the merrier (and the more AP).

As someone who probably has gone through over 1000 oil pots, IMHO these are the best three oil AP farms.

1. Chalman Inner West breech.
2. Alessia Bridge, Alessia side.
3. Best I think: Sejanus, south side Vs. AD. This one is really good because even if some sneaky AD sets up a fire treb to hit you, she has to do so on the North side and often gets ganked.

When a logjam happens at Chalman Milegate, that can be a particularly lucrative farm. Just need the forces on each side to reach the right level of size for the EP to be able to hold while the DC have trouble pushing, but have enough to feed the oils.

Make sure to slot siege shield and purge or purify before doing so though, as there are several spots that the top of the milegate can be sieged from.

DisgracefulMind

Joy_Division wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

We all get faction blinders sometimes (ok, most of the time). But it's important to remember it's all a matter of perspective; That it's ZOS's fault we deal with unacceptable lag and loadscreens. That guilds like VE and Drac and BoD and IVS are all just playing the game as it was designed to be played.

I know I've been frustrated with other guilds for what I perceive is an effort to faction stack, etc. etc. But even I have to admit that most of the time it's me with my own faction blinders on. How many times has Invictus, with its cap of 16, had several pugs in tow making us look larger? Pretty often I imagine. In fact, I think we had Basbor glued to us for about 2 months straight. I can't control those pugs anymore than VE can.

Last thing: but the Bleakers corridor is just way more conducive to fights than Nikel or Sej. Nikel is too open field in both directions, while Sej is basically a fight at the bridge with people running to the bridge from Alessia or Sej depending on who controls it. It's hard to blame people for naturally gravitating to an area that provides good LoS and terrain for fighting all the way from Chal to Aleswell. That alone is a big reason why so many EP and DC are constantly pushing back and forth there. As a natural consequence of that ebb and flow, you get big stacks at Chal and Aleswell.

Insightful.

People are probably going to throw rotten vegetables at me for saying this, but when I am on EP and I see in zone chat "DC faction stack Chal," I immediately stop what I am doing and get to Chalman because I anticipate a lot of fun. The feeling I get when I pour oil on the gaggle of indecisive Smurfs over the inner breech is priceless. As far as I am concerned, the more the merrier (and the more AP).

As someone who probably has gone through over 1000 oil pots, IMHO these are the best three oil AP farms.

1. Chalman Inner West breech.
2. Alessia Bridge, Alessia side.
3. Best I think: Sejanus, south side Vs. AD. This one is really good because even if some sneaky AD sets up a fire treb to hit you, she has to do so on the North side and often gets ganked.

I'm with you here, Joy. I do love defending keeps/outposts with some expertly placed oils. Fairly, Ren, and I can hold a breach for a long, long time with our oil rotations xD

Kilandros

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

We all get faction blinders sometimes (ok, most of the time). But it's important to remember it's all a matter of perspective; That it's ZOS's fault we deal with unacceptable lag and loadscreens. That guilds like VE and Drac and BoD and IVS are all just playing the game as it was designed to be played.

I know I've been frustrated with other guilds for what I perceive is an effort to faction stack, etc. etc. But even I have to admit that most of the time it's me with my own faction blinders on. How many times has Invictus, with its cap of 16, had several pugs in tow making us look larger? Pretty often I imagine. In fact, I think we had Basbor glued to us for about 2 months straight. I can't control those pugs anymore than VE can.

Last thing: but the Bleakers corridor is just way more conducive to fights than Nikel or Sej. Nikel is too open field in both directions, while Sej is basically a fight at the bridge with people running to the bridge from Alessia or Sej depending on who controls it. It's hard to blame people for naturally gravitating to an area that provides good LoS and terrain for fighting all the way from Chal to Aleswell. That alone is a big reason why so many EP and DC are constantly pushing back and forth there. As a natural consequence of that ebb and flow, you get big stacks at Chal and Aleswell.

Insightful.

People are probably going to throw rotten vegetables at me for saying this, but when I am on EP and I see in zone chat "DC faction stack Chal," I immediately stop what I am doing and get to Chalman because I anticipate a lot of fun. The feeling I get when I pour oil on the gaggle of indecisive Smurfs over the inner breech is priceless. As far as I am concerned, the more the merrier (and the more AP).

As someone who probably has gone through over 1000 oil pots, IMHO these are the best three oil AP farms.

1. Chalman Inner West breech.
2. Alessia Bridge, Alessia side.
3. Best I think: Sejanus, south side Vs. AD. This one is really good because even if some sneaky AD sets up a fire treb to hit you, she has to do so on the North side and often gets ganked.

I'm with you here, Joy. I do love defending keeps/outposts with some expertly placed oils. Fairly, Ren, and I can hold a breach for a long, long time with our oil rotations xD

Until I steal Ren's oil from her little baby Warden. Probably the most satisfying thing in game tbh

DisgracefulMind

Kilandros wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

We all get faction blinders sometimes (ok, most of the time). But it's important to remember it's all a matter of perspective; That it's ZOS's fault we deal with unacceptable lag and loadscreens. That guilds like VE and Drac and BoD and IVS are all just playing the game as it was designed to be played.

I know I've been frustrated with other guilds for what I perceive is an effort to faction stack, etc. etc. But even I have to admit that most of the time it's me with my own faction blinders on. How many times has Invictus, with its cap of 16, had several pugs in tow making us look larger? Pretty often I imagine. In fact, I think we had Basbor glued to us for about 2 months straight. I can't control those pugs anymore than VE can.

Last thing: but the Bleakers corridor is just way more conducive to fights than Nikel or Sej. Nikel is too open field in both directions, while Sej is basically a fight at the bridge with people running to the bridge from Alessia or Sej depending on who controls it. It's hard to blame people for naturally gravitating to an area that provides good LoS and terrain for fighting all the way from Chal to Aleswell. That alone is a big reason why so many EP and DC are constantly pushing back and forth there. As a natural consequence of that ebb and flow, you get big stacks at Chal and Aleswell.

Insightful.

People are probably going to throw rotten vegetables at me for saying this, but when I am on EP and I see in zone chat "DC faction stack Chal," I immediately stop what I am doing and get to Chalman because I anticipate a lot of fun. The feeling I get when I pour oil on the gaggle of indecisive Smurfs over the inner breech is priceless. As far as I am concerned, the more the merrier (and the more AP).

As someone who probably has gone through over 1000 oil pots, IMHO these are the best three oil AP farms.

1. Chalman Inner West breech.
2. Alessia Bridge, Alessia side.
3. Best I think: Sejanus, south side Vs. AD. This one is really good because even if some sneaky AD sets up a fire treb to hit you, she has to do so on the North side and often gets ganked.

I'm with you here, Joy. I do love defending keeps/outposts with some expertly placed oils. Fairly, Ren, and I can hold a breach for a long, long time with our oil rotations xD

Until I steal Ren's oil from her little baby Warden. Probably the most satisfying thing in game tbh

I'll help her keel you, Puglandros.

JumpAllOver

I once stole bee's oil, and lived to tell the tale.

Ghost-Shot

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Rin_Senya wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Rin_Senya wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Rin_Senya wrote: »

To be fair the only time NA DC can actually take Chalman is when they literally stack 3-4 guilds there with all DC pugs lol xD or by PVDooring it...

To be fair, we only lose it in exactly the same fashion.

To be fair the only guild on EP side that occasionally runs 24m is Pact Militia whereas DC generally needs BOD and VE full groups (+overflows) stacked with AK and Pug guild + zone pugs, so it's not the same fashion, no

Ah right. EP doesn't zerg. It's just those dastardly DC and AD.

I don't know if your ego is just that big or if your eyes have failed you, but either way some introspection may be required.

If you re-read my post you will see that I've never said that EP doesn't zerg, in fact in the past posts (on Dracarys thread) I've said exactly that "All players zerg with their factions (some occasionally some more often)".

I'm simply responding to the fact that someone commented that EP lose Chalman all the time. The only reason EP loses Chalman is because DC guilds faction stack their full 24m+ raids together to take it instead of these guilds spreading out over the map to push different objectives and fight their own fights.

However it’s really interesting to see that as soon as someone mentions certain guilds, which are always faction stacking, players in those guilds hide behind the "everyone zergs" tag.

My eyes can see perfectly well when I'm zerged down by 24-40 people in a coordinated raid stacking with a second coordinated raid and pugs compared to when i'm fighting 40 pugs. The pugs have no excuse but the guilds claiming victory and that their opponents suck at defending when there only way a keep can be taken is via PVD or an entire faction stack vs generally some pugs / small groups definately has some "introspection" to do (I'm talking about all factions, not only DC).

I read your post quite closely. You quite clearly stated DC needs to raid stack to take Chalman but EP doesn't. Then started waxing on about how many numbers people run. It's some nonsense and I really expect better from long time players.

I'd be interested for you to quote the part from Anairi's post in which she says anything about EP not stacking to take back Chal at times.

Satiar wrote: »

More to the original point, EP pretty much PvEdoors Chalman to take it back. During primetime I'd say a solid 90% of the time. I know this because I'm usually the group at Roebeck seeing Chal flag 20/20 and arriving justtttt in time to see the front door goes up. DC doesn't know how to scout or defend keeps. 'Tis what it is. Hard to take and then instantly forgotten about.

A full VE raid had absolutely no qualms about sitting in Chalman with BoD, AK and Pugs the entire night not so long ago (to the detriment of the rest of the DC map) so your comment that you are normally at Roe is a little cynical.

As you have mentioned in the past you aren't in control of what the raid does when you don't lead, thats fair enough but it doesn't change what the raid you play in is doing or when your players will tbag, /cheer and rage whisper after zerging down a 14m group being 24+overflow.

Satiar wrote: »

You might also want to brush up on your DC groups. AD and EP are the only factions actually capable of bringing multiple stacked groups to an engagement. I can't even remember the last time I had a full raid online at the same time as BoD, most of the time I'm asking what they've got and I hear "9 people".

I suggest you turn character nameplates and alliance indicators to always on. BoD is generally at least twice that size when VE is running a full raid. Also having 23 people doesn't negate the 'full group' argument.

Satiar wrote: »

I've seen Invictus, Drac and PM all on at the same time, 3 organized groups that can comfortably stomp on most of the groups they'll encounter IN ADDITION to a PR raid + pugs nearby. That's alot more than DC can bring forward at any one time, which is why I double take at your "DC faction stacking 24 man raids" bit.

IVS and Drac only run 16 max and PM hasn't had a raid over 24 in a long time (to my knowledge). Generally if IVS or Drac is present somewhere the other guild goes in the opposite direction because it should be enough to achieve anything required just having one guild there. I can't say this is the same for DC.
Sure there are times when I see both raids in one place too. Generally because the entirety of DC is at that location to begin with and has been for some time and the other EP raid goes there to finish the fight because the lag is unbearable for the rest of the map.


I've been impressed by VE occasionally going to Sej / BRK whilst chal is red recently but until your standard procedure is to separate from the rest of your guilds in a similar way as the other factions do I can't be won over sorry.

I believe capping groups at 16 is true for IVS, but drac will absolutely go past that, to say you don't is flat out bull ***, I have seen you at ash with 20+ people. You guys really need to let this group numbers obsession go.

Kilandros wrote: »

We all get faction blinders sometimes (ok, most of the time). But it's important to remember it's all a matter of perspective; That it's ZOS's fault we deal with unacceptable lag and loadscreens. That guilds like VE and Drac and BoD and IVS are all just playing the game as it was designed to be played.

I know I've been frustrated with other guilds for what I perceive is an effort to faction stack, etc. etc. But even I have to admit that most of the time it's me with my own faction blinders on. How many times has Invictus, with its cap of 16, had several pugs in tow making us look larger? Pretty often I imagine. In fact, I think we had Basbor glued to us for about 2 months straight. I can't control those pugs anymore than VE can.

Last thing: but the Bleakers corridor is just way more conducive to fights than Nikel or Sej. Nikel is too open field in both directions, while Sej is basically a fight at the bridge with people running to the bridge from Alessia or Sej depending on who controls it. It's hard to blame people for naturally gravitating to an area that provides good LoS and terrain for fighting all the way from Chal to Aleswell. That alone is a big reason why so many EP and DC are constantly pushing back and forth there. As a natural consequence of that ebb and flow, you get big stacks at Chal and Aleswell.

Bruh, we are farming salt here, no time for well thought out reasonable posts.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO

Post has been active whilst I was at work

Satiar wrote: »

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

I'd be interested for you to quote the part from Anairi's post in which she says anything about EP not stacking to take back Chal at times.

Here ya go: " To be fair the only guild on EP side that occasionally runs 24m is Pact Militia whereas DC generally needs BOD and VE full groups (+overflows) stacked with AK and Pug guild + zone pugs, so it's not the same fashion, no "

This comment is talking about group sizes and full groups differences between the 2 factions nothing about Chalman. Try again if you would like to.

Satiar wrote: »

We both have people in our guilds who are quite passionate. If you want logs of rage whispers, I've got some seriously nasty stuff from your crew. Let he that is without sin, or so the saying goes. You tend to reap what you sow. VE is not perfect by any means but we've worked to silence or remove our bad actors and constantly tell our players to respect the opposition.

Sure show me a screenshot of Dracarys' GM rage whispering someone inside VE I'd be amazed.
You mention as a guild that you tell your players to respect the opposition yet your GM doesn't? Is it setting a good example?

I'm well aware of things some of my members have said and have also spoken out against doing this however after getting zerged down vs twice your numbers and then tbagged etc I can understand why tempers get a little frayed. I can't really understand it from the side of the larger group however.

Satiar wrote: »

As I've said before, I really don't care about group size. You get the fights you get and I fight them if I'm favored to win or not.

And as you know (as we have spoken in whisper) I'm of the same oppinion. That doesn't mean that I'm not gnna bring up the fact that I think its a poor playstyle to stack a full raid + and then also zerg surf.

Satiar wrote: »

I find that to be mostly nonsense. EP moves around in a giant blob. I regularly get on to find 3 guilds stacked inside Aleswell, and ALL THREE come to Bleakers and ALL THREE come to Chalman and ALL THREE come to Arius and ALL THREE come to Dragonclaw.

First some 'Math' of the 3 most prominent guilds for each faction:
EP: 16+16+24 = 56 + Pugs
DC: 37(according to one of the guys in your run the last time we fought) + 24 + 24 = 87 + Pugs

Now I'm sorry if you think 56vs87 is unfair for DC (as this post was inferring when first made and perpetuated by further comments about Chalman) but you can see why people might think this is a little deluded.

Satiar wrote: »

Ah well, my apologies. I wasn't aware my goal was winning you over. Personally, I've never found taking an outpost and farming there to be a particularly stunning accomplishment but I suppose we can have our own opinions.

Generally when people make an argument they do so in the hope that it alters the oppinions of those they are arguing with. Otherwise these people are just arguing for the sake of it.
Personally I value taking an outpost 16 v 40 a better accomplishment then taking chal 90 v 50. Just me I guess though

Satiar wrote: »

Nameplates and alliance indicators is always turned on, it's very handy to look over our footage and see 17+ people in a "16 man capped group"

I love to see footage of highlights from other guilds, if you make some more videos with all those clips of us being over 16 which you say you have I'd love to see it. Maybe a VE official channel?

Kilandros wrote: »

We all get faction blinders sometimes (ok, most of the time). That it's ZOS's fault we deal with unacceptable lag and loadscreens.

Agreed

Kilandros wrote: »

I can't control those pugs anymore than VE can.

I disagree here. You can start by not inviting them to your raid. Secondly you can run lower numbers so they make less of an impact to your size (e.g 16 instead of 24+) and Lastly you can go to a distant part of the map to create your own fight there instead of stacking with the rest of the guilds and pugs to 'ensure' they follow you. All are quite effective. Guilds in my experience know 90% of the time when they create their own fight or zerg surf.
(I'm referring to play in general not to any guilds in particular)

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

I believe capping groups at 16 is true for IVS, but drac will absolutely go past that, to say you don't is flat out bull ***, I have seen you at ash with 20+ people. You guys really need to let this group numbers obsession go.

Lol are you serious? Even our TS only has 20 slots XD

Rin_Senya

Satiar wrote: »

Here ya go: " To be fair the only guild on EP side that occasionally runs 24m is Pact Militia whereas DC generally needs BOD and VE full groups (+overflows) stacked with AK and Pug guild + zone pugs, so it's not the same fashion, no "

lol, nice try but:

Rin_Senya wrote: »

If you re-read my post you will see that I've never said that EP doesn't zerg, in fact in the past posts (on Dracarys thread) I've said exactly that "All players zerg with their factions (some occasionally some more often)".

Idk why you keep trying to turn this thread into another "you zerg - no you zerg" argument (and so do many other people here) it wasn't about this at all.
I don't care at all if VE run a 24 man group, if you like to play that style - go for it. However if you are so comfortable running at this size why are you so triggered by people talking about it. Perhaps you feel some guilt or need to prove yourselves?

It was you who said this not me:

Satiar wrote: »

I will admit, VE is a bit of a dinosaur. All the old big guilds we played against for the map and for fights are gone.

Ghost-Shot

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

Post has been active whilst I was at work

Satiar wrote: »

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

I'd be interested for you to quote the part from Anairi's post in which she says anything about EP not stacking to take back Chal at times.

Here ya go: " To be fair the only guild on EP side that occasionally runs 24m is Pact Militia whereas DC generally needs BOD and VE full groups (+overflows) stacked with AK and Pug guild + zone pugs, so it's not the same fashion, no "

This comment is talking about group sizes and full groups differences between the 2 factions nothing about Chalman. Try again if you would like to.

Satiar wrote: »

We both have people in our guilds who are quite passionate. If you want logs of rage whispers, I've got some seriously nasty stuff from your crew. Let he that is without sin, or so the saying goes. You tend to reap what you sow. VE is not perfect by any means but we've worked to silence or remove our bad actors and constantly tell our players to respect the opposition.

Sure show me a screenshot of Dracarys' GM rage whispering someone inside VE I'd be amazed.
You mention as a guild that you tell your players to respect the opposition yet your GM doesn't? Is it setting a good example?

I'm well aware of things some of my members have said and have also spoken out against doing this however after getting zerged down vs twice your numbers and then tbagged etc I can understand why tempers get a little frayed. I can't really understand it from the side of the larger group however.

Satiar wrote: »

As I've said before, I really don't care about group size. You get the fights you get and I fight them if I'm favored to win or not.

And as you know (as we have spoken in whisper) I'm of the same oppinion. That doesn't mean that I'm not gnna bring up the fact that I think its a poor playstyle to stack a full raid + and then also zerg surf.

Satiar wrote: »

I find that to be mostly nonsense. EP moves around in a giant blob. I regularly get on to find 3 guilds stacked inside Aleswell, and ALL THREE come to Bleakers and ALL THREE come to Chalman and ALL THREE come to Arius and ALL THREE come to Dragonclaw.

First some 'Math' of the 3 most prominent guilds for each faction:
EP: 16+16+24 = 56 + Pugs
DC: 37(according to one of the guys in your run the last time we fought) + 24 + 24 = 87 + Pugs

Now I'm sorry if you think 56vs87 is unfair for DC (as this post was inferring when first made and perpetuated by further comments about Chalman) but you can see why people might think this is a little deluded.

Satiar wrote: »

Ah well, my apologies. I wasn't aware my goal was winning you over. Personally, I've never found taking an outpost and farming there to be a particularly stunning accomplishment but I suppose we can have our own opinions.

Generally when people make an argument they do so in the hope that it alters the oppinions of those they are arguing with. Otherwise these people are just arguing for the sake of it.
Personally I value taking an outpost 16 v 40 a better accomplishment then taking chal 90 v 50. Just me I guess though

Satiar wrote: »

Nameplates and alliance indicators is always turned on, it's very handy to look over our footage and see 17+ people in a "16 man capped group"

I love to see footage of highlights from other guilds, if you make some more videos with all those clips of us being over 16 which you say you have I'd love to see it. Maybe a VE official channel?

Kilandros wrote: »

We all get faction blinders sometimes (ok, most of the time). That it's ZOS's fault we deal with unacceptable lag and loadscreens.

Agreed

Kilandros wrote: »

I can't control those pugs anymore than VE can.

I disagree here. You can start by not inviting them to your raid. Secondly you can run lower numbers so they make less of an impact to your size (e.g 16 instead of 24+) and Lastly you can go to a distant part of the map to create your own fight there instead of stacking with the rest of the guilds and pugs to 'ensure' they follow you. All are quite effective. Guilds in my experience know 90% of the time when they create their own fight or zerg surf.
(I'm referring to play in general not to any guilds in particular)

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

I believe capping groups at 16 is true for IVS, but drac will absolutely go past that, to say you don't is flat out bull ***, I have seen you at ash with 20+ people. You guys really need to let this group numbers obsession go.

Lol are you serious? Even our TS only has 20 slots XD

I might be wrong here, but when I add 37+24+24 I get 85, do I not know how to math? And who is the 37 if not pugs? I'm fairly certain groups only go to 24 so I'm not following, seems like you are trying to heavily weight this equation in your favor. We also don't invite pugs to our raid, we recruit after a roster purge, that's how you keep a guild roster active.

Why would we go out of our way to run less than 24? That doesn't make sense, if we have 16 online great, we'll run 16. But if I log in and start a raid up and 23 people want to join, why would I say 7 of you can *** off? And your own members have acknowledged groups of more than 16 bro, nice try.

We go across the map just as often as you do, but Bulb likes playing the map and winning campaigns. The fact is that Chal goes further towards accomplishing that goal than Drakelowe.

Agrippa_Invisus

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

Post has been active whilst I was at work

Satiar wrote: »

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

I'd be interested for you to quote the part from Anairi's post in which she says anything about EP not stacking to take back Chal at times.

Here ya go: " To be fair the only guild on EP side that occasionally runs 24m is Pact Militia whereas DC generally needs BOD and VE full groups (+overflows) stacked with AK and Pug guild + zone pugs, so it's not the same fashion, no "

This comment is talking about group sizes and full groups differences between the 2 factions nothing about Chalman. Try again if you would like to.

Satiar wrote: »

We both have people in our guilds who are quite passionate. If you want logs of rage whispers, I've got some seriously nasty stuff from your crew. Let he that is without sin, or so the saying goes. You tend to reap what you sow. VE is not perfect by any means but we've worked to silence or remove our bad actors and constantly tell our players to respect the opposition.

Sure show me a screenshot of Dracarys' GM rage whispering someone inside VE I'd be amazed.
You mention as a guild that you tell your players to respect the opposition yet your GM doesn't? Is it setting a good example?

I'm well aware of things some of my members have said and have also spoken out against doing this however after getting zerged down vs twice your numbers and then tbagged etc I can understand why tempers get a little frayed. I can't really understand it from the side of the larger group however.

Satiar wrote: »

As I've said before, I really don't care about group size. You get the fights you get and I fight them if I'm favored to win or not.

And as you know (as we have spoken in whisper) I'm of the same oppinion. That doesn't mean that I'm not gnna bring up the fact that I think its a poor playstyle to stack a full raid + and then also zerg surf.

Satiar wrote: »

I find that to be mostly nonsense. EP moves around in a giant blob. I regularly get on to find 3 guilds stacked inside Aleswell, and ALL THREE come to Bleakers and ALL THREE come to Chalman and ALL THREE come to Arius and ALL THREE come to Dragonclaw.

First some 'Math' of the 3 most prominent guilds for each faction:
EP: 16+16+24 = 56 + Pugs
DC: 37(according to one of the guys in your run the last time we fought) + 24 + 24 = 87 + Pugs

Now I'm sorry if you think 56vs87 is unfair for DC (as this post was inferring when first made and perpetuated by further comments about Chalman) but you can see why people might think this is a little deluded.

Satiar wrote: »

Ah well, my apologies. I wasn't aware my goal was winning you over. Personally, I've never found taking an outpost and farming there to be a particularly stunning accomplishment but I suppose we can have our own opinions.

Generally when people make an argument they do so in the hope that it alters the oppinions of those they are arguing with. Otherwise these people are just arguing for the sake of it.
Personally I value taking an outpost 16 v 40 a better accomplishment then taking chal 90 v 50. Just me I guess though

Satiar wrote: »

Nameplates and alliance indicators is always turned on, it's very handy to look over our footage and see 17+ people in a "16 man capped group"

I love to see footage of highlights from other guilds, if you make some more videos with all those clips of us being over 16 which you say you have I'd love to see it. Maybe a VE official channel?

Kilandros wrote: »

We all get faction blinders sometimes (ok, most of the time). That it's ZOS's fault we deal with unacceptable lag and loadscreens.

Agreed

Kilandros wrote: »

I can't control those pugs anymore than VE can.

I disagree here. You can start by not inviting them to your raid. Secondly you can run lower numbers so they make less of an impact to your size (e.g 16 instead of 24+) and Lastly you can go to a distant part of the map to create your own fight there instead of stacking with the rest of the guilds and pugs to 'ensure' they follow you. All are quite effective. Guilds in my experience know 90% of the time when they create their own fight or zerg surf.
(I'm referring to play in general not to any guilds in particular)

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

I believe capping groups at 16 is true for IVS, but drac will absolutely go past that, to say you don't is flat out bull ***, I have seen you at ash with 20+ people. You guys really need to let this group numbers obsession go.

Lol are you serious? Even our TS only has 20 slots XD

I might be wrong here, but when I add 37+24+24 I get 85, do I not know how to math? And who is the 37 if not pugs? I'm fairly certain groups only go to 24 so I'm not following, seems like you are trying to heavily weight this equation in your favor. We also don't invite pugs to our raid, we recruit after a roster purge, that's how you keep a guild roster active.

Why would we go out of our way to run less than 24? That doesn't make sense, if we have 16 online great, we'll run 16. But if I log in and start a raid up and 23 people want to join, why would I say 7 of you can *** off? And your own members have acknowledged groups of more than 16 bro, nice try.

We go across the map just as often as you do, but Bulb likes playing the map and winning campaigns. The fact is that Chal goes further towards accomplishing that goal than Drakelowe.

To concur with Ghost here for a moment -- It is perfectly possible to get a vast amount of AP in a campaign, find some amazing fights, and play the map.

I'm ranked 6 right now in the same moment I've put over 1.5million in AP earnings on two different alts as well as my DK and spending time leveling one of those alts to 50 and skyshard hunting for him extensively.

There's also been some stellar fights between the guild I'm in and multiple other opponent guild groups such as VE, DD, DK, BoD, and others. Many of those are over some of the most important objectives on the map.

I doubt anyone would accuse me of not playing the map. Everyone knows me enough by now to know that's what I do.

I just think it's a mistake to think that you can't find a) good fights and b) good AP while also playing to help your faction.

Elong

I simply don't understand why DC are upset, or complaining, that we do faction stack at times to get Chal back. I mean, it is a home keep after all? I know some DC do truly believe it is a DC home keep after all but...

If I take Ales or Glade, I fully expect to get zerged the hell down.

Agrippa_Invisus

Elong wrote: »

I simply don't understand why DC are upset, or complaining, that we do faction stack at times to get Chal back. I mean, it is a home keep after all? I know some DC do truly believe it is a DC home keep after all but...

If I take Ales or Glade, I fully expect to get zerged the hell down.

Even better is seeing Arrius mentioned.

Um. Yeah. Literally our most important keep. Nothing on this earth would prevent it getting zerged. The same goes at Fare and Glade, which I've seen happen repeatedly.

There are times though at places like BRK, Chalman, and even Ash and the other ring keeps when the enemy factions just keep pushing. For up to an hour sometimes, and by that point players on both sides are crashing like crazy and the sound's cutting out and yes, that's ZOS's FAULT, but at what point do the attackers go 'ya know, this ain't fun anymore' and pull out?

Satiar

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

Post has been active whilst I was at work

Satiar wrote: »

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

I'd be interested for you to quote the part from Anairi's post in which she says anything about EP not stacking to take back Chal at times.

Here ya go: " To be fair the only guild on EP side that occasionally runs 24m is Pact Militia whereas DC generally needs BOD and VE full groups (+overflows) stacked with AK and Pug guild + zone pugs, so it's not the same fashion, no "

This comment is talking about group sizes and full groups differences between the 2 factions nothing about Chalman. Try again if you would like to.

Satiar wrote: »

We both have people in our guilds who are quite passionate. If you want logs of rage whispers, I've got some seriously nasty stuff from your crew. Let he that is without sin, or so the saying goes. You tend to reap what you sow. VE is not perfect by any means but we've worked to silence or remove our bad actors and constantly tell our players to respect the opposition.

Sure show me a screenshot of Dracarys' GM rage whispering someone inside VE I'd be amazed.
You mention as a guild that you tell your players to respect the opposition yet your GM doesn't? Is it setting a good example?

I'm well aware of things some of my members have said and have also spoken out against doing this however after getting zerged down vs twice your numbers and then tbagged etc I can understand why tempers get a little frayed. I can't really understand it from the side of the larger group however.

Satiar wrote: »

As I've said before, I really don't care about group size. You get the fights you get and I fight them if I'm favored to win or not.

And as you know (as we have spoken in whisper) I'm of the same oppinion. That doesn't mean that I'm not gnna bring up the fact that I think its a poor playstyle to stack a full raid + and then also zerg surf.

Satiar wrote: »

I find that to be mostly nonsense. EP moves around in a giant blob. I regularly get on to find 3 guilds stacked inside Aleswell, and ALL THREE come to Bleakers and ALL THREE come to Chalman and ALL THREE come to Arius and ALL THREE come to Dragonclaw.

First some 'Math' of the 3 most prominent guilds for each faction:
EP: 16+16+24 = 56 + Pugs
DC: 37(according to one of the guys in your run the last time we fought) + 24 + 24 = 87 + Pugs

Now I'm sorry if you think 56vs87 is unfair for DC (as this post was inferring when first made and perpetuated by further comments about Chalman) but you can see why people might think this is a little deluded.

Satiar wrote: »

Ah well, my apologies. I wasn't aware my goal was winning you over. Personally, I've never found taking an outpost and farming there to be a particularly stunning accomplishment but I suppose we can have our own opinions.

Generally when people make an argument they do so in the hope that it alters the oppinions of those they are arguing with. Otherwise these people are just arguing for the sake of it.
Personally I value taking an outpost 16 v 40 a better accomplishment then taking chal 90 v 50. Just me I guess though

Satiar wrote: »

Nameplates and alliance indicators is always turned on, it's very handy to look over our footage and see 17+ people in a "16 man capped group"

I love to see footage of highlights from other guilds, if you make some more videos with all those clips of us being over 16 which you say you have I'd love to see it. Maybe a VE official channel?

Kilandros wrote: »

We all get faction blinders sometimes (ok, most of the time). That it's ZOS's fault we deal with unacceptable lag and loadscreens.

Agreed

Kilandros wrote: »

I can't control those pugs anymore than VE can.

I disagree here. You can start by not inviting them to your raid. Secondly you can run lower numbers so they make less of an impact to your size (e.g 16 instead of 24+) and Lastly you can go to a distant part of the map to create your own fight there instead of stacking with the rest of the guilds and pugs to 'ensure' they follow you. All are quite effective. Guilds in my experience know 90% of the time when they create their own fight or zerg surf.
(I'm referring to play in general not to any guilds in particular)

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

I believe capping groups at 16 is true for IVS, but drac will absolutely go past that, to say you don't is flat out bull ***, I have seen you at ash with 20+ people. You guys really need to let this group numbers obsession go.

Lol are you serious? Even our TS only has 20 slots XD

If you think you're fighting outnumbered at Chalman, you're delusional. Like, I don't know any other way to put it, your unsubstantiated headmath nonwithstanding.

I'll repeat what I said earlier: 16 is as much as a crutch as 24 or whatever number you imagine we run. It's a safe size. Big enough to get good hits in and feel great cuz your landed your destros, but small enough that whenever you die you can play the outnumbered card. EP guilds freaking love this number I suspect for exactly this reason.

I don't care how many people you run. But if you're going to hoist yourself up on this high horse and preach to the unwashed masses below of their sins, you better be spotless. But you're not. You do the same things you call out other people for. You zerg surf. You maneuver around and bomb me when im fighting a zerg. You stack inside keeps with multiple guilds for easy defense. You run more numbers then you claim. None of these things are bad, but you're calling other people out for this stuff so yeah, I get bent out of shape when you do. If you wanna play that way, play that way and stop pretending otherwise.

When you started Drac and I talked to you and some of your officers I had.... high hopes? I was told you were recruiting, you had new build you were trying, overall quite nice. Not a month later and it's like I'm watching a carbon copy of Haxus talking about how small they run and whining constantly about being outnumbered and talking down to anyone who dares to run bigger then the arbitrary number they settled on. Is there something in the water over there?

This argument is so old and so dumb. Just run what you wanna run and fight your fights. If you like your win rate than jolly for you. If you don't, then change something. Complaining at your opponents over that is just so dumb. Try to see it from my perspective. You know I run full raids, at least 16 and usually 20ish anytime you see me. If you engage on that, win or lose you know what you're getting into. I do. I own my losses and I enjoy my wins. Game is much more fun when you're less focused on complaining about the enemy and more focused on how you can improve. It infuriates me when we lose and ppl just wanna talk about how they were outnumbered or or it was so cheesy or whatever, there's no improvement to be found there. Just toxicity and and a culture of blame.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO

@Satiar @Ghost-Shot
Take a deep breath it's all going to be ok.

I would be genuinely interested if you actually replied to the points in my last post rather repeating the same thing again based on what you think they say.

1. I've never complained about running a smaller group then you. I'd rather run that size and I don't care what size you run.

Are you still with me?

2. When considering number in a keep you cannot compare pugs to organised groups. We can agree or disagree here. That's my view.
It's a fact that the biggest group running and you have said that the groups you used to fight at that size are gone.

3. I like your invention of the "outnumbered card". Perhaps we should tell the same to 1vXers when they complain they get zerged down by a group.

4. I agree with you about working on your weaknesses however when VE members come to forums complaining about "EP numbers" were you not expecting this reply?

5. Interesting about no reply to the GM rage comment.

I'll stop there to allow you to catch up.

Rahotu

ad/dc are the angry spoiled brats of cyro,ep take 'exploit' to a new level,words got around,peeps want in,miats not working as well now so many have it

Rohamad_Ali