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Dive needs to be dodgeable
-
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭What is with the constant surprise attack this and that. Surprise attack is spammable of ONE class. One class that has like 10 other damage abilities. It can proc almost all proc effects in the game (from viper to redguard stam gain). It increases all your damage to the target by some amount by debuffing their armor. If you are invisible it stuns them and IN CP increases your damage to them by 10% for 4 sec (off balance effect of exploiter star). Also on hit increases your armor and simply having it increases your max HP. While enjoying +10% crit damage bonus of the class + all the other passives that in small ways affect it (like better crit chance or more stealth damage). All this while having worse damage than cutting dive by 3% and having higher stam cost by 11%.
While dive is undodgeable and ranged. Increases all your damage by 2% and heals your for 600hp in PVP, grants you 4 ultimate every 8sec and slotting it gives you 12% more regen. Screaming cliff racer is magicka spammable (so not even comparable to something like surprise attack) with 2% to all damage, 6% to itself in melee, 21% in range. Healing for 600hp in pvp.
Ok. Everybody can prefer more one than the other. But for fs stop comparing them like they can be compared.
We are comparing its damage to surprise attack. It got the same scaler slider as surprise attack yet is ranged and undodgable with 21% more dmg (23%) in we include the animal companions passive.
15% ranged morph
6% magicka from passive
2% animal companion
They can be compared, they are both spammables.
Dive going through roll is the same as surprise attack going through shields.PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...3 -
Alucardo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »What is with the constant surprise attack this and that. Surprise attack is spammable of ONE class. One class that has like 10 other damage abilities. It can proc almost all proc effects in the game (from viper to redguard stam gain). It increases all your damage to the target by some amount by debuffing their armor. If you are invisible it stuns them and IN CP increases your damage to them by 10% for 4 sec (off balance effect of exploiter star). Also on hit increases your armor and simply having it increases your max HP. While enjoying +10% crit damage bonus of the class + all the other passives that in small ways affect it (like better crit chance or more stealth damage). All this while having worse damage than cutting dive by 3% and having higher stam cost by 11%.
While dive is undodgeable and ranged. Increases all your damage by 2% and heals your for 600hp in PVP, grants you 4 ultimate every 8sec and slotting it gives you 12% more regen. Screaming cliff racer is magicka spammable (so not even comparable to something like surprise attack) with 2% to all damage, 6% to itself in melee, 21% in range. Healing for 600hp in pvp.
Ok. Everybody can prefer more one than the other. But for fs stop comparing them like they can be compared.
We are comparing its damage to surprise attack. It got the same scaler slider as surprise attack yet is ranged and undodgable with 21% more dmg (23%) in we include the animal companions passive.
15% ranged morph
6% magicka from passive
2% animal companion
They can be compared, they are both spammables.
Dive going through roll is the same as surprise attack going through shields.
You can't really compare a spammable ability when the class also has the ability to go invisible at will. Like, you just can't. Because you're not really just comparing a skill, you need to look at the classes entire toolbox.2 -
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »What is with the constant surprise attack this and that. Surprise attack is spammable of ONE class. One class that has like 10 other damage abilities. It can proc almost all proc effects in the game (from viper to redguard stam gain). It increases all your damage to the target by some amount by debuffing their armor. If you are invisible it stuns them and IN CP increases your damage to them by 10% for 4 sec (off balance effect of exploiter star). Also on hit increases your armor and simply having it increases your max HP. While enjoying +10% crit damage bonus of the class + all the other passives that in small ways affect it (like better crit chance or more stealth damage). All this while having worse damage than cutting dive by 3% and having higher stam cost by 11%.
While dive is undodgeable and ranged. Increases all your damage by 2% and heals your for 600hp in PVP, grants you 4 ultimate every 8sec and slotting it gives you 12% more regen. Screaming cliff racer is magicka spammable (so not even comparable to something like surprise attack) with 2% to all damage, 6% to itself in melee, 21% in range. Healing for 600hp in pvp.
Ok. Everybody can prefer more one than the other. But for fs stop comparing them like they can be compared.
We are comparing its damage to surprise attack. It got the same scaler slider as surprise attack yet is ranged and undodgable with 21% more dmg (23%) in we include the animal companions passive.
15% ranged morph
6% magicka from passive
2% animal companion
They can be compared, they are both spammables.
Dive going through roll is the same as surprise attack going through shields.
You can't really compare a spammable ability when the class also has the ability to go invisible at will. Like, you just can't. Because you're not really just comparing a skill, you need to look at the classes entire toolbox.
Im just comparing the spam.
Nothing to do with the defence, just the scaling of the skill and the fact it ignores stams main defence.PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...2 -
Alucardo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I also forgot to mention that incredibly cheap ultimate called Incap Strike. You know, the one that increases all of their damage against the target by 15% and decreases their healing? You don't have to worry about damage on a Nightblade. Trust me, they've got that in spades, so let's keep surprise attack out of the equation.0 -
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I also forgot to mention that incredibly cheap ultimate called Incap Strike. You know, the one that increases all of their damage against the target by 15% and decreases their healing? You don't have to worry about damage on a Nightblade. Trust me, they've got that in spades, so let's keep surprise attack out of the equation.
Yet even incapped magicka dive still does more dmg xDPS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...1 -
SodanTok✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »What is with the constant surprise attack this and that. Surprise attack is spammable of ONE class. One class that has like 10 other damage abilities. It can proc almost all proc effects in the game (from viper to redguard stam gain). It increases all your damage to the target by some amount by debuffing their armor. If you are invisible it stuns them and IN CP increases your damage to them by 10% for 4 sec (off balance effect of exploiter star). Also on hit increases your armor and simply having it increases your max HP. While enjoying +10% crit damage bonus of the class + all the other passives that in small ways affect it (like better crit chance or more stealth damage). All this while having worse damage than cutting dive by 3% and having higher stam cost by 11%.
While dive is undodgeable and ranged. Increases all your damage by 2% and heals your for 600hp in PVP, grants you 4 ultimate every 8sec and slotting it gives you 12% more regen. Screaming cliff racer is magicka spammable (so not even comparable to something like surprise attack) with 2% to all damage, 6% to itself in melee, 21% in range. Healing for 600hp in pvp.
Ok. Everybody can prefer more one than the other. But for fs stop comparing them like they can be compared.
We are comparing its damage to surprise attack. It got the same scaler slider as surprise attack yet is ranged and undodgable with 21% more dmg (23%) in we include the animal companions passive.
15% ranged morph
6% magicka from passive
2% animal companion
They can be compared, they are both spammables.
Dive going through roll is the same as surprise attack going through shields.
They cant be compared.
They are spammables from totally different classes for totally different situations. With the % you listed even with different stats used.
Being spammable IS ONE AND ONLY ONE TRAIT that they have in common. Making comparing not just impossible, but totally stupid.
Not to mention you cant just list all +damage one class has and completely ignore all the +damage from other and then try to compare them. I could say surprise attacks gets 4k more damage every 4sec because of viper. Dive does not. Suddenly surprise attack does more damage.
Edited by SodanTok on July 8, 2017 7:31PM5 -
Alucardo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »I also forgot to mention that incredibly cheap ultimate called Incap Strike. You know, the one that increases all of their damage against the target by 15% and decreases their healing? You don't have to worry about damage on a Nightblade. Trust me, they've got that in spades, so let's keep surprise attack out of the equation.
Yet even incapped magicka dive still does more dmg xD
Nightblades have the highest single target burst potential in the game. Wardens throw a bird at you once a second. If they're close enough for deep fissure to land, then the cliff racer will hit like a noodle.2 -
Strider_Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »What is with the constant surprise attack this and that. Surprise attack is spammable of ONE class. One class that has like 10 other damage abilities. It can proc almost all proc effects in the game (from viper to redguard stam gain). It increases all your damage to the target by some amount by debuffing their armor. If you are invisible it stuns them and IN CP increases your damage to them by 10% for 4 sec (off balance effect of exploiter star). Also on hit increases your armor and simply having it increases your max HP. While enjoying +10% crit damage bonus of the class + all the other passives that in small ways affect it (like better crit chance or more stealth damage). All this while having worse damage than cutting dive by 3% and having higher stam cost by 11%.
While dive is undodgeable and ranged. Increases all your damage by 2% and heals your for 600hp in PVP, grants you 4 ultimate every 8sec and slotting it gives you 12% more regen. Screaming cliff racer is magicka spammable (so not even comparable to something like surprise attack) with 2% to all damage, 6% to itself in melee, 21% in range. Healing for 600hp in pvp.
Ok. Everybody can prefer more one than the other. But for fs stop comparing them like they can be compared.
We are comparing its damage to surprise attack. It got the same scaler slider as surprise attack yet is ranged and undodgable with 21% more dmg (23%) in we include the animal companions passive.
15% ranged morph
6% magicka from passive
2% animal companion
They can be compared, they are both spammables.
Dive going through roll is the same as surprise attack going through shields.
They cant be compared.
They are spammables from totally different classes for totally different situations. With the % you listed even with different stats used.
Being spammable IS ONE AND ONLY ONE TRAIT that they have in common. Making comparing not just impossible, but totally stupid.
Not to mention you can just list all +damage one class has and completly ignore all the +damage from other and then try to compare them.
Yes one hits harder, costs less, can hit from 38m away, and is undodgeable.
The other one is Surprise Attack2 -
Strider_Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »I also forgot to mention that incredibly cheap ultimate called Incap Strike. You know, the one that increases all of their damage against the target by 15% and decreases their healing? You don't have to worry about damage on a Nightblade. Trust me, they've got that in spades, so let's keep surprise attack out of the equation.
Yet even incapped magicka dive still does more dmg xD
Nightblades have the highest single target burst potential in the game. Wardens throw a bird at you once a second. If they're close enough for deep fissure to land, then the cliff racer will hit like a noodle.
Oh this is my favorite terminology right here.
If this move hits like a wet noodle then what does Surprise Attack hit like? A napkin from a little girl's birthday party?
3 -
Alucardo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Strider_Roshin wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »I also forgot to mention that incredibly cheap ultimate called Incap Strike. You know, the one that increases all of their damage against the target by 15% and decreases their healing? You don't have to worry about damage on a Nightblade. Trust me, they've got that in spades, so let's keep surprise attack out of the equation.
Yet even incapped magicka dive still does more dmg xD
Nightblades have the highest single target burst potential in the game. Wardens throw a bird at you once a second. If they're close enough for deep fissure to land, then the cliff racer will hit like a noodle.
Oh this is my favorite terminology right here.
If this move hits like a wet noodle then what does Surprise Attack hit like? A napkin from a little girl's birthday party?
No. Thanks to the NB passives and debuffs this ability actually hits quite hard1 -
Anti_Virus✭✭✭✭✭
✭leepalmer95 wrote: »What is with the constant surprise attack this and that. Surprise attack is spammable of ONE class. One class that has like 10 other damage abilities. It can proc almost all proc effects in the game (from viper to redguard stam gain). It increases all your damage to the target by some amount by debuffing their armor. If you are invisible it stuns them and IN CP increases your damage to them by 10% for 4 sec (off balance effect of exploiter star). Also on hit increases your armor and simply having it increases your max HP. While enjoying +10% crit damage bonus of the class + all the other passives that in small ways affect it (like better crit chance or more stealth damage). All this while having worse damage than cutting dive by 3% and having higher stam cost by 11%.
While dive is undodgeable and ranged. Increases all your damage by 2% and heals your for 600hp in PVP, grants you 4 ultimate every 8sec and slotting it gives you 12% more regen. Screaming cliff racer is magicka spammable (so not even comparable to something like surprise attack) with 2% to all damage, 6% to itself in melee, 21% in range. Healing for 600hp in pvp.
Ok. Everybody can prefer more one than the other. But for fs stop comparing them like they can be compared.
We are comparing its damage to surprise attack. It got the same scaler slider as surprise attack yet is ranged and undodgable with 21% more dmg (23%) in we include the animal companions passive.
15% ranged morph
6% magicka from passive
2% animal companion
They can be compared, they are both spammables.
Dive going through roll is the same as surprise attack going through shields.
They cant be compared.
They are spammables from totally different classes for totally different situations. With the % you listed even with different stats used.
Being spammable IS ONE AND ONLY ONE TRAIT that they have in common. Making comparing not just impossible, but totally stupid.
Not to mention you cant just list all +damage one class has and completely ignore all the +damage from other and then try to compare them. I could say surprise attacks gets 4k more damage every 4sec because of viper. Dive does not. Suddenly surprise attack does more damage.
He forgot to mention that surprise attack, deals 8%-10.5% more damage, stuns from stealth and adds major resolve and ward.
And no mNBs don't really use concealed weapons as most are ranged.Power Wealth And Influence.0 -
Alucardo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I honestly don't know why we're still talking about an ability from a completely different class. Shall we compare deep fissure with crystal fragments next?0 -
SodanTok✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Strider_Roshin wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »What is with the constant surprise attack this and that. Surprise attack is spammable of ONE class. One class that has like 10 other damage abilities. It can proc almost all proc effects in the game (from viper to redguard stam gain). It increases all your damage to the target by some amount by debuffing their armor. If you are invisible it stuns them and IN CP increases your damage to them by 10% for 4 sec (off balance effect of exploiter star). Also on hit increases your armor and simply having it increases your max HP. While enjoying +10% crit damage bonus of the class + all the other passives that in small ways affect it (like better crit chance or more stealth damage). All this while having worse damage than cutting dive by 3% and having higher stam cost by 11%.
While dive is undodgeable and ranged. Increases all your damage by 2% and heals your for 600hp in PVP, grants you 4 ultimate every 8sec and slotting it gives you 12% more regen. Screaming cliff racer is magicka spammable (so not even comparable to something like surprise attack) with 2% to all damage, 6% to itself in melee, 21% in range. Healing for 600hp in pvp.
Ok. Everybody can prefer more one than the other. But for fs stop comparing them like they can be compared.
We are comparing its damage to surprise attack. It got the same scaler slider as surprise attack yet is ranged and undodgable with 21% more dmg (23%) in we include the animal companions passive.
15% ranged morph
6% magicka from passive
2% animal companion
They can be compared, they are both spammables.
Dive going through roll is the same as surprise attack going through shields.
They cant be compared.
They are spammables from totally different classes for totally different situations. With the % you listed even with different stats used.
Being spammable IS ONE AND ONLY ONE TRAIT that they have in common. Making comparing not just impossible, but totally stupid.
Not to mention you can just list all +damage one class has and completly ignore all the +damage from other and then try to compare them.
Yes one hits harder, costs less, can hit from 38m away, and is undodgeable.
The other one is Surprise Attack
One stuns you and debuffs you
The other one is Dive.
We can play this game all day long.2 -
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I honestly don't know why we're still talking about an ability from a completely different class. Shall we compare deep fissure with crystal fragments next?
If you cant compare abilities between classes what do you compare them with? Npc's?PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...0 -
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Strider_Roshin wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »What is with the constant surprise attack this and that. Surprise attack is spammable of ONE class. One class that has like 10 other damage abilities. It can proc almost all proc effects in the game (from viper to redguard stam gain). It increases all your damage to the target by some amount by debuffing their armor. If you are invisible it stuns them and IN CP increases your damage to them by 10% for 4 sec (off balance effect of exploiter star). Also on hit increases your armor and simply having it increases your max HP. While enjoying +10% crit damage bonus of the class + all the other passives that in small ways affect it (like better crit chance or more stealth damage). All this while having worse damage than cutting dive by 3% and having higher stam cost by 11%.
While dive is undodgeable and ranged. Increases all your damage by 2% and heals your for 600hp in PVP, grants you 4 ultimate every 8sec and slotting it gives you 12% more regen. Screaming cliff racer is magicka spammable (so not even comparable to something like surprise attack) with 2% to all damage, 6% to itself in melee, 21% in range. Healing for 600hp in pvp.
Ok. Everybody can prefer more one than the other. But for fs stop comparing them like they can be compared.
We are comparing its damage to surprise attack. It got the same scaler slider as surprise attack yet is ranged and undodgable with 21% more dmg (23%) in we include the animal companions passive.
15% ranged morph
6% magicka from passive
2% animal companion
They can be compared, they are both spammables.
Dive going through roll is the same as surprise attack going through shields.
They cant be compared.
They are spammables from totally different classes for totally different situations. With the % you listed even with different stats used.
Being spammable IS ONE AND ONLY ONE TRAIT that they have in common. Making comparing not just impossible, but totally stupid.
Not to mention you can just list all +damage one class has and completly ignore all the +damage from other and then try to compare them.
Yes one hits harder, costs less, can hit from 38m away, and is undodgeable.
The other one is Surprise Attack
One stuns you and debuffs you
The other one is Dive.
We can play this game all day long.
Who even uses the stun from SA?PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...3 -
Alucardo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »
As I said, you need to look at the class as a whole. Not just single abilities. You'll never balance a game that way.
For example, Nightblades have a wide assortment of damage skills, including a ranged execute. Warden has basically dive, a 3 second ground aoe that takes fancy footwork, and a DoT that isn't a DoT. You nerf their spammable and they've got nothing. So yes, Dive will need a buff it you want to nerf its core feature of being undodgeable.Edited by Alucardo on July 8, 2017 7:46PM1 -
SodanTok✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »Strider_Roshin wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »What is with the constant surprise attack this and that. Surprise attack is spammable of ONE class. One class that has like 10 other damage abilities. It can proc almost all proc effects in the game (from viper to redguard stam gain). It increases all your damage to the target by some amount by debuffing their armor. If you are invisible it stuns them and IN CP increases your damage to them by 10% for 4 sec (off balance effect of exploiter star). Also on hit increases your armor and simply having it increases your max HP. While enjoying +10% crit damage bonus of the class + all the other passives that in small ways affect it (like better crit chance or more stealth damage). All this while having worse damage than cutting dive by 3% and having higher stam cost by 11%.
While dive is undodgeable and ranged. Increases all your damage by 2% and heals your for 600hp in PVP, grants you 4 ultimate every 8sec and slotting it gives you 12% more regen. Screaming cliff racer is magicka spammable (so not even comparable to something like surprise attack) with 2% to all damage, 6% to itself in melee, 21% in range. Healing for 600hp in pvp.
Ok. Everybody can prefer more one than the other. But for fs stop comparing them like they can be compared.
We are comparing its damage to surprise attack. It got the same scaler slider as surprise attack yet is ranged and undodgable with 21% more dmg (23%) in we include the animal companions passive.
15% ranged morph
6% magicka from passive
2% animal companion
They can be compared, they are both spammables.
Dive going through roll is the same as surprise attack going through shields.
They cant be compared.
They are spammables from totally different classes for totally different situations. With the % you listed even with different stats used.
Being spammable IS ONE AND ONLY ONE TRAIT that they have in common. Making comparing not just impossible, but totally stupid.
Not to mention you can just list all +damage one class has and completly ignore all the +damage from other and then try to compare them.
Yes one hits harder, costs less, can hit from 38m away, and is undodgeable.
The other one is Surprise Attack
One stuns you and debuffs you
The other one is Dive.
We can play this game all day long.
Who even uses the stun from SA?
Everyone? How else would you stun players? There is no incap strike when you ignore everything else and compare only spammable.1 -
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »Strider_Roshin wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »What is with the constant surprise attack this and that. Surprise attack is spammable of ONE class. One class that has like 10 other damage abilities. It can proc almost all proc effects in the game (from viper to redguard stam gain). It increases all your damage to the target by some amount by debuffing their armor. If you are invisible it stuns them and IN CP increases your damage to them by 10% for 4 sec (off balance effect of exploiter star). Also on hit increases your armor and simply having it increases your max HP. While enjoying +10% crit damage bonus of the class + all the other passives that in small ways affect it (like better crit chance or more stealth damage). All this while having worse damage than cutting dive by 3% and having higher stam cost by 11%.
While dive is undodgeable and ranged. Increases all your damage by 2% and heals your for 600hp in PVP, grants you 4 ultimate every 8sec and slotting it gives you 12% more regen. Screaming cliff racer is magicka spammable (so not even comparable to something like surprise attack) with 2% to all damage, 6% to itself in melee, 21% in range. Healing for 600hp in pvp.
Ok. Everybody can prefer more one than the other. But for fs stop comparing them like they can be compared.
We are comparing its damage to surprise attack. It got the same scaler slider as surprise attack yet is ranged and undodgable with 21% more dmg (23%) in we include the animal companions passive.
15% ranged morph
6% magicka from passive
2% animal companion
They can be compared, they are both spammables.
Dive going through roll is the same as surprise attack going through shields.
They cant be compared.
They are spammables from totally different classes for totally different situations. With the % you listed even with different stats used.
Being spammable IS ONE AND ONLY ONE TRAIT that they have in common. Making comparing not just impossible, but totally stupid.
Not to mention you can just list all +damage one class has and completly ignore all the +damage from other and then try to compare them.
Yes one hits harder, costs less, can hit from 38m away, and is undodgeable.
The other one is Surprise Attack
One stuns you and debuffs you
The other one is Dive.
We can play this game all day long.
Who even uses the stun from SA?
Everyone? How else would you stun players? There is no incap strike when you ignore everything else and compare only spammable.
Fear?PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...3 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »What is with the constant surprise attack this and that. Surprise attack is spammable of ONE class. One class that has like 10 other damage abilities. It can proc almost all proc effects in the game (from viper to redguard stam gain). It increases all your damage to the target by some amount by debuffing their armor. If you are invisible it stuns them and IN CP increases your damage to them by 10% for 4 sec (off balance effect of exploiter star). Also on hit increases your armor and simply having it increases your max HP. While enjoying +10% crit damage bonus of the class + all the other passives that in small ways affect it (like better crit chance or more stealth damage). All this while having worse damage than cutting dive by 3% and having higher stam cost by 11%.
While dive is undodgeable and ranged. Increases all your damage by 2% and heals your for 600hp in PVP, grants you 4 ultimate every 8sec and slotting it gives you 12% more regen. Screaming cliff racer is magicka spammable (so not even comparable to something like surprise attack) with 2% to all damage, 6% to itself in melee, 21% in range. Healing for 600hp in pvp.
Ok. Everybody can prefer more one than the other. But for fs stop comparing them like they can be compared.
We are comparing its damage to surprise attack. It got the same scaler slider as surprise attack yet is ranged and undodgable with 21% more dmg (23%) in we include the animal companions passive.
15% ranged morph
6% magicka from passive
2% animal companion
They can be compared, they are both spammables.
Dive going through roll is the same as surprise attack going through shields.
They cant be compared.
If someone has an agenda, then they will most certainly remove inconvenient context and compare apples to oranges saying "they're both fruit and thus comparable"
Edited by Joy_Division on July 8, 2017 8:00PM4 -
Twohothardware✭✭✭✭✭
✭Dive would be useless if it was dodgeable. They would have to make it deal more damage or add some sort of snare to it if it could be dodged.1 -
SodanTok✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »Strider_Roshin wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »What is with the constant surprise attack this and that. Surprise attack is spammable of ONE class. One class that has like 10 other damage abilities. It can proc almost all proc effects in the game (from viper to redguard stam gain). It increases all your damage to the target by some amount by debuffing their armor. If you are invisible it stuns them and IN CP increases your damage to them by 10% for 4 sec (off balance effect of exploiter star). Also on hit increases your armor and simply having it increases your max HP. While enjoying +10% crit damage bonus of the class + all the other passives that in small ways affect it (like better crit chance or more stealth damage). All this while having worse damage than cutting dive by 3% and having higher stam cost by 11%.
While dive is undodgeable and ranged. Increases all your damage by 2% and heals your for 600hp in PVP, grants you 4 ultimate every 8sec and slotting it gives you 12% more regen. Screaming cliff racer is magicka spammable (so not even comparable to something like surprise attack) with 2% to all damage, 6% to itself in melee, 21% in range. Healing for 600hp in pvp.
Ok. Everybody can prefer more one than the other. But for fs stop comparing them like they can be compared.
We are comparing its damage to surprise attack. It got the same scaler slider as surprise attack yet is ranged and undodgable with 21% more dmg (23%) in we include the animal companions passive.
15% ranged morph
6% magicka from passive
2% animal companion
They can be compared, they are both spammables.
Dive going through roll is the same as surprise attack going through shields.
They cant be compared.
They are spammables from totally different classes for totally different situations. With the % you listed even with different stats used.
Being spammable IS ONE AND ONLY ONE TRAIT that they have in common. Making comparing not just impossible, but totally stupid.
Not to mention you can just list all +damage one class has and completly ignore all the +damage from other and then try to compare them.
Yes one hits harder, costs less, can hit from 38m away, and is undodgeable.
The other one is Surprise Attack
One stuns you and debuffs you
The other one is Dive.
We can play this game all day long.
Who even uses the stun from SA?
Everyone? How else would you stun players? There is no incap strike when you ignore everything else and compare only spammable.
Fear?
Fear is not surprise attack. But I guess that only proved my point. Very quickly after surprise attack stopped being sooo much worse than dive in this spammable face off, you turned to another skill that is not spammable to make your point. Proving you cant compare them if just minor tweaking can totally change the outcome.Edited by SodanTok on July 8, 2017 8:07PM1 -
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »Strider_Roshin wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »What is with the constant surprise attack this and that. Surprise attack is spammable of ONE class. One class that has like 10 other damage abilities. It can proc almost all proc effects in the game (from viper to redguard stam gain). It increases all your damage to the target by some amount by debuffing their armor. If you are invisible it stuns them and IN CP increases your damage to them by 10% for 4 sec (off balance effect of exploiter star). Also on hit increases your armor and simply having it increases your max HP. While enjoying +10% crit damage bonus of the class + all the other passives that in small ways affect it (like better crit chance or more stealth damage). All this while having worse damage than cutting dive by 3% and having higher stam cost by 11%.
While dive is undodgeable and ranged. Increases all your damage by 2% and heals your for 600hp in PVP, grants you 4 ultimate every 8sec and slotting it gives you 12% more regen. Screaming cliff racer is magicka spammable (so not even comparable to something like surprise attack) with 2% to all damage, 6% to itself in melee, 21% in range. Healing for 600hp in pvp.
Ok. Everybody can prefer more one than the other. But for fs stop comparing them like they can be compared.
We are comparing its damage to surprise attack. It got the same scaler slider as surprise attack yet is ranged and undodgable with 21% more dmg (23%) in we include the animal companions passive.
15% ranged morph
6% magicka from passive
2% animal companion
They can be compared, they are both spammables.
Dive going through roll is the same as surprise attack going through shields.
They cant be compared.
They are spammables from totally different classes for totally different situations. With the % you listed even with different stats used.
Being spammable IS ONE AND ONLY ONE TRAIT that they have in common. Making comparing not just impossible, but totally stupid.
Not to mention you can just list all +damage one class has and completly ignore all the +damage from other and then try to compare them.
Yes one hits harder, costs less, can hit from 38m away, and is undodgeable.
The other one is Surprise Attack
One stuns you and debuffs you
The other one is Dive.
We can play this game all day long.
Who even uses the stun from SA?
Everyone? How else would you stun players? There is no incap strike when you ignore everything else and compare only spammable.
Fear?
Fear is not surprise attack. But I guess that only proved my point. Very quickly after surprise attack stopped being sooo much worse than dive in this spammable face off, you turned to another skill that is not spammable to make your point. Proving you cant compare them if just minor tweaking can totally change the outcome.
Wtf are you on about.
I was comparing it to surprise attack because it has the same basic scaling before passives. Thats all. Pick another skill if you want but make that go through shields.
Your the one bring 'it cc's' into it. I literally don't care if it cc's which no one uses. Im on about the fact it has the same basic scaling but gets buffed by 23% as surprise attack yet ignores stamina defence.
PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...0 -
SodanTok✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »Strider_Roshin wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »What is with the constant surprise attack this and that. Surprise attack is spammable of ONE class. One class that has like 10 other damage abilities. It can proc almost all proc effects in the game (from viper to redguard stam gain). It increases all your damage to the target by some amount by debuffing their armor. If you are invisible it stuns them and IN CP increases your damage to them by 10% for 4 sec (off balance effect of exploiter star). Also on hit increases your armor and simply having it increases your max HP. While enjoying +10% crit damage bonus of the class + all the other passives that in small ways affect it (like better crit chance or more stealth damage). All this while having worse damage than cutting dive by 3% and having higher stam cost by 11%.
While dive is undodgeable and ranged. Increases all your damage by 2% and heals your for 600hp in PVP, grants you 4 ultimate every 8sec and slotting it gives you 12% more regen. Screaming cliff racer is magicka spammable (so not even comparable to something like surprise attack) with 2% to all damage, 6% to itself in melee, 21% in range. Healing for 600hp in pvp.
Ok. Everybody can prefer more one than the other. But for fs stop comparing them like they can be compared.
We are comparing its damage to surprise attack. It got the same scaler slider as surprise attack yet is ranged and undodgable with 21% more dmg (23%) in we include the animal companions passive.
15% ranged morph
6% magicka from passive
2% animal companion
They can be compared, they are both spammables.
Dive going through roll is the same as surprise attack going through shields.
They cant be compared.
They are spammables from totally different classes for totally different situations. With the % you listed even with different stats used.
Being spammable IS ONE AND ONLY ONE TRAIT that they have in common. Making comparing not just impossible, but totally stupid.
Not to mention you can just list all +damage one class has and completly ignore all the +damage from other and then try to compare them.
Yes one hits harder, costs less, can hit from 38m away, and is undodgeable.
The other one is Surprise Attack
One stuns you and debuffs you
The other one is Dive.
We can play this game all day long.
Who even uses the stun from SA?
Everyone? How else would you stun players? There is no incap strike when you ignore everything else and compare only spammable.
Fear?
Fear is not surprise attack. But I guess that only proved my point. Very quickly after surprise attack stopped being sooo much worse than dive in this spammable face off, you turned to another skill that is not spammable to make your point. Proving you cant compare them if just minor tweaking can totally change the outcome.
Wtf are you on about.
I was comparing it to surprise attack because it has the same basic scaling before passives. Thats all. Pick another skill if you want but make that go through shields.
Your the one bring 'it cc's' into it. I literally don't care if it cc's which no one uses. Im on about the fact it has the same basic scaling but gets buffed by 23% as surprise attack yet ignores stamina defence.
I see. Not only you were comparing two totally different spammable skills just because they are spammable and have similiar scaling. You were actually trying to compare how would totally different spammable skill on totally different class worked if it ignored totally different defense mechanic. Now it makes sense. You lost your your mind
Edited by SodanTok on July 8, 2017 8:40PM1 -
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »Strider_Roshin wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »What is with the constant surprise attack this and that. Surprise attack is spammable of ONE class. One class that has like 10 other damage abilities. It can proc almost all proc effects in the game (from viper to redguard stam gain). It increases all your damage to the target by some amount by debuffing their armor. If you are invisible it stuns them and IN CP increases your damage to them by 10% for 4 sec (off balance effect of exploiter star). Also on hit increases your armor and simply having it increases your max HP. While enjoying +10% crit damage bonus of the class + all the other passives that in small ways affect it (like better crit chance or more stealth damage). All this while having worse damage than cutting dive by 3% and having higher stam cost by 11%.
While dive is undodgeable and ranged. Increases all your damage by 2% and heals your for 600hp in PVP, grants you 4 ultimate every 8sec and slotting it gives you 12% more regen. Screaming cliff racer is magicka spammable (so not even comparable to something like surprise attack) with 2% to all damage, 6% to itself in melee, 21% in range. Healing for 600hp in pvp.
Ok. Everybody can prefer more one than the other. But for fs stop comparing them like they can be compared.
We are comparing its damage to surprise attack. It got the same scaler slider as surprise attack yet is ranged and undodgable with 21% more dmg (23%) in we include the animal companions passive.
15% ranged morph
6% magicka from passive
2% animal companion
They can be compared, they are both spammables.
Dive going through roll is the same as surprise attack going through shields.
They cant be compared.
They are spammables from totally different classes for totally different situations. With the % you listed even with different stats used.
Being spammable IS ONE AND ONLY ONE TRAIT that they have in common. Making comparing not just impossible, but totally stupid.
Not to mention you can just list all +damage one class has and completly ignore all the +damage from other and then try to compare them.
Yes one hits harder, costs less, can hit from 38m away, and is undodgeable.
The other one is Surprise Attack
One stuns you and debuffs you
The other one is Dive.
We can play this game all day long.
Who even uses the stun from SA?
Everyone? How else would you stun players? There is no incap strike when you ignore everything else and compare only spammable.
Fear?
Fear is not surprise attack. But I guess that only proved my point. Very quickly after surprise attack stopped being sooo much worse than dive in this spammable face off, you turned to another skill that is not spammable to make your point. Proving you cant compare them if just minor tweaking can totally change the outcome.
Wtf are you on about.
I was comparing it to surprise attack because it has the same basic scaling before passives. Thats all. Pick another skill if you want but make that go through shields.
Your the one bring 'it cc's' into it. I literally don't care if it cc's which no one uses. Im on about the fact it has the same basic scaling but gets buffed by 23% as surprise attack yet ignores stamina defence.
I see. Not only you were comparing two totally different spammable skills just because they are spammable and have similiar scaling. You were actually trying to compare how would totally different spammable skill on totally different class worked if it ignored totally different defense mechanic. Now it makes sense. You lost your your mind
By totally different you mean ones ranged and ones melee right?
Either with all the nb passive nb buffs dive still has overall better damage.
But dive ignoring dodge is the equivalent of a stamina spammable with similar damage ignoring shields.PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...2 -
SodanTok✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »Strider_Roshin wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »What is with the constant surprise attack this and that. Surprise attack is spammable of ONE class. One class that has like 10 other damage abilities. It can proc almost all proc effects in the game (from viper to redguard stam gain). It increases all your damage to the target by some amount by debuffing their armor. If you are invisible it stuns them and IN CP increases your damage to them by 10% for 4 sec (off balance effect of exploiter star). Also on hit increases your armor and simply having it increases your max HP. While enjoying +10% crit damage bonus of the class + all the other passives that in small ways affect it (like better crit chance or more stealth damage). All this while having worse damage than cutting dive by 3% and having higher stam cost by 11%.
While dive is undodgeable and ranged. Increases all your damage by 2% and heals your for 600hp in PVP, grants you 4 ultimate every 8sec and slotting it gives you 12% more regen. Screaming cliff racer is magicka spammable (so not even comparable to something like surprise attack) with 2% to all damage, 6% to itself in melee, 21% in range. Healing for 600hp in pvp.
Ok. Everybody can prefer more one than the other. But for fs stop comparing them like they can be compared.
We are comparing its damage to surprise attack. It got the same scaler slider as surprise attack yet is ranged and undodgable with 21% more dmg (23%) in we include the animal companions passive.
15% ranged morph
6% magicka from passive
2% animal companion
They can be compared, they are both spammables.
Dive going through roll is the same as surprise attack going through shields.
They cant be compared.
They are spammables from totally different classes for totally different situations. With the % you listed even with different stats used.
Being spammable IS ONE AND ONLY ONE TRAIT that they have in common. Making comparing not just impossible, but totally stupid.
Not to mention you can just list all +damage one class has and completly ignore all the +damage from other and then try to compare them.
Yes one hits harder, costs less, can hit from 38m away, and is undodgeable.
The other one is Surprise Attack
One stuns you and debuffs you
The other one is Dive.
We can play this game all day long.
Who even uses the stun from SA?
Everyone? How else would you stun players? There is no incap strike when you ignore everything else and compare only spammable.
Fear?
Fear is not surprise attack. But I guess that only proved my point. Very quickly after surprise attack stopped being sooo much worse than dive in this spammable face off, you turned to another skill that is not spammable to make your point. Proving you cant compare them if just minor tweaking can totally change the outcome.
Wtf are you on about.
I was comparing it to surprise attack because it has the same basic scaling before passives. Thats all. Pick another skill if you want but make that go through shields.
Your the one bring 'it cc's' into it. I literally don't care if it cc's which no one uses. Im on about the fact it has the same basic scaling but gets buffed by 23% as surprise attack yet ignores stamina defence.
I see. Not only you were comparing two totally different spammable skills just because they are spammable and have similiar scaling. You were actually trying to compare how would totally different spammable skill on totally different class worked if it ignored totally different defense mechanic. Now it makes sense. You lost your your mind
By totally different you mean ones ranged and ones melee right?
Either with all the nb passive nb buffs dive still has overall better damage.
But dive ignoring dodge is the equivalent of a stamina spammable with similar damage ignoring shields.
If you think spammable ignoring dodge is equivalent of spammable ignoring shield then there is no point in discussing it. And I am stamina player and I really dislike shields, but what are you saying is just stupid.3 -
Alucardo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »But dive ignoring dodge is the equivalent of a stamina spammable with similar damage ignoring shields.
I have to disagree there. If Nightblades could ignore shields the world would be on fire. Dive being undodgeable isn't hurting much at all, except those stam builds thinking they can dodge roll out of a 1v10. It's true, maybe they could have been able to do that before, but if you're getting chased by a Warden, then chances are you aren't getting away as easily as you used to.
But if you fight a warden using cliff racer as their spammable in a 1v1, it's not going to do them any favours. By the time a single cliff racer hits a nightblade, they've already unloaded 19k damage in 1.5 seconds on you.Edited by Alucardo on July 8, 2017 9:13PM6 -
oMrRust✭✭✭✭Dive does need to be dodgeable, as a stam sorc, I was trying to get away by roll dodging but it only hit me in about 3 hits at full health til death.. block should not be the only counter0 -
Alucardo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Dive does need to be dodgeable, as a stam sorc, I was trying to get away by roll dodging but it only hit me in about 3 hits at full health til death.. block should not be the only counter
Best defence against cliff racer is to, you know, actually attack the warden and heal through the damage or block it instead of rolling around. If they're not alone then you're screwed anyway, and having an undodgeable attack makes zero difference.
I know you stam builds are used to rolling around like monkeys, evading all that damage, but you can't do that against a Warden. It'll take time, but you'll learn.1 -
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
So what are you mean't to do?
We've already discussed blocking it will achieve nothing.PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...0