Skill Point Exploit & Account Suspensions

SickDuck

3 day is good since they did not gain any long term advantage. Unlike xp, ap, gold or mats grinding exploiters.

White wabbit

SickDuck wrote: »

3 day is good since they did not gain any long term advantage. Unlike xp, ap, gold or mats grinding exploiters.

Sorry but I don't agree needs to be longer and Zos needs to start setting examples to warn off this type of play

Mojmir

SickDuck wrote: »

3 day is good since they did not gain any long term advantage. Unlike xp, ap, gold or mats grinding exploiters.

You gain zero advantage,I have skill points leftover, I'll never use

Orjix

i'm going to say it, and everyone is going to hate me for it, but i believe that if you find an exploit in any game you should be able to use it with out there being bans or restrictions placed on their account. the goal of the game is to use its rules to get as good as possible and if someone finds an exploit they are just using what they found to their advantage. PEOPLE SHOULD NOT BE PUNISHED FOR USING EXPLOITS, it is the developers fault they are in the game in the first place (yes, yes, i know it is impossible to make a flawless game, but it's still in the game thanks to them) and therefore the exploiters are just using what the developers put in the game (purposely or not) to achieve the max that they can.

Moi_523

KevinMK wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

affected accounts will have all skill points reset to their original state before this exploit occurred

What does this mean exactly? Will the skill points be reset to the amount of skill points they had at the point before the exploit? What happens to the skill points that were obtained legally during the time since the exploit?

I too would like to know the answer to this. What happens to the skill points earned and skills unlocked in the past week??

@ZOS_GinaBruno

Moi_523

Oh and also...the email has links to your Terms of service and Code of Conduct... the pages they link to don't exist. Good Job...can't even read what I might have done wrong

@ZOS_GinaBruno

Aurie

Orjix wrote: »

i'm going to say it, and everyone is going to hate me for it, but i believe that if you find an exploit in any game you should be able to use it with out there being bans or restrictions placed on their account. the goal of the game is to use its rules to get as good as possible and if someone finds an exploit they are just using what they found to their advantage. PEOPLE SHOULD NOT BE PUNISHED FOR USING EXPLOITS, it is the developers fault they are in the game in the first place (yes, yes, i know it is impossible to make a flawless game, but it's still in the game thanks to them) and therefore the exploiters are just using what the developers put in the game (purposely or not) to achieve the max that they can.

Just to make things clear, I absolutely do not believe in exploiting and have never knowingly done so.

But well, the way things are, it does come over as being the easy way out for devs to deal with the problem while they get around to eventually fixing it in the distant future! As it is, the onus is on those players who exploit an exploit that should be fixed asap by the devs.

Bouldercleave

It sounds like a group boss in one of the public dungeons was bugged giving you a skill point every time you killed him. At least that is what I can decipher from the cryptic posts.

I think is would be easy to determine if a player got more than 1 skill point at a certain place.

Rogue78

Yes please! Check that and unban those already that killed it only once with a new character!

Mojmir

Lol it's the community's fault for grinding

ArvenAldmeri

Woeler wrote: »

Moi_523 wrote: »

Well this kinda sucks because we just happened to be doing that public dungeon (myself and 2 others) that day. One of us had missed the group event boss when it was up so we went back to kill it again. We also were around the dungeon several times in order to get all the bosses for the achievement and and passed by the group event many times. We did not camp it like so many others did but are getting punished because their programming was *** up. Thanks a lot ZOS. There was NO WAY to prevent from getting an extra skill point when we killed it again for the other group members that missed it...

4 people in my guild that went to do all the public dungeons with their new wardens to get the skillpoints from there were also banned.

Great job banning people for playing the game.

Same for my boyfriend who was leveling up his warden... Zenimax response? Request from unbanning declined. Weekened (and friday) is time we have raid with our best guild. Now he cant go. On top, weekeneds are only days we can play together all day as in work week I go to work and get to play with him only in evenings...

Thanks Zenimax for nothing, I am gonna unsub, I hope he will too and you will never see any money from us (because I was buying his crowns) ever again. Good job.

Thrasher91604

Wow. Brilliant handling of the bug infestation that is this game.

LiquidPony

Turelus wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Sheey wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Will punishments be worse if any of these people were repeat offenders?

As I feel whilst this issue was reversible the fact we often see suspensions only leads people to promote exploiting, cash out before the suspension, take a suspension and enjoy the rewards still.

As I have posted many times in other threads about exploiting I feel ZOS would do well to adopt a strike system (if not already) to make sure first time offended who may not know better learn, but repeat offenders are eventually removed from the game.

No. Just No.

Repeat offenders should not be removed from the game. As long as it is game expirienced-related the punishments should stay ingame related and not account related.

Suspending someone from the game permanently is never to take in action just because someone abusing a bug in game. Permanently bans are reserved for Bots and system hacks ONLY.

This is the procedure for almost every other MMO, there are clear ToS rules stating you are not to exploit bugs if encountered.

The issue we have with ESO and exploiting is that because ZOS has rarely ever made a harsh stance we literally see people telling one another to abuse bugs on the forums and have active groups within the game which find them and abuse for massive gains yet face only a temporary suspension.

I've been banging on about this for over a year now linking the same old information again and again. If ZOS wants ESO to have a reputation of a fair and competitive online game then they need to start taking actual actions against people who continuously exploit bugs for advantages in the game.

Here are some examples to prove I am not just touting rubbish.

https://community.eveonline.com/support/policies/suspension-and-ban-policy/
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/legal/guild-wars-2-conduct-breaches-outcomes/
http://www.playonline.com/ff11eu/rule/manner05.html?pageID=manner

Maybe I'm a jerk, but, I feel like a more reasonable solution to this problem would be ... fix the bugs? Invest in a competent QA team? Hold the developers responsible for consistently releasing bug-riddled code that never gets fixed?

It just seems to me that if ZOS "wants ESO to have a reputation of a fair and competitive online game," then they should produce a game that isn't a donkey show of bugs, crashes, and lag.

Stuff like this leading to permabans would be a great way to let ESO rest in pepperoni. I've spent many an evening grinding Public Dungeons for various purposes (guild events, gear farm, gold farm, etc.).

The issue and the reason a ToS exists is because not all bugs can be foreseen and fixed instantly. You have to remember there are groups who go on PTS to find issues, don't report them then abuse in the live game.

ToS which gives a company freedom to suspend or ban due to unforeseen bugs. It should only lead to a perma ban if a player constantly after one or two strikes continues to exploit bugs.

If you find a bug which can be exploited, report it, don't use it, don't get banned. It's that simple.

My point is that bugs like this one can easily be accidentally "exploited" by people who had no ill intent.

And there are other bugs that are "exploited" to work around broken content that can't be played otherwise.

And there are many potential bugs that are, by some definition, being "exploited" in competitive end-game content ... but of course we have no idea if those are actually bugs that we are exploiting or intentional mechanics.

Anyway, all I'm saying is that it cuts both ways. People should be banned for repeatedly exploiting known bugs, but ZOS should do a better job of communicating the existence of those bugs and then fixing them. The sheer number of bugs and exploits in this game is astounding.

If ZOS wants this to be a fair and competitive online game, the buck starts and stops with ZOS. Putting all of the blame on players, especially in cases like this, just allows ZOS to continue raking in cash for delivering broken content.

I agree with you on some parts. I do wish ZOS would announce when an exploit is found and warn everyone that if they use it they will face actions, then take action against those who did to some level.

I come from another game which was very tough on exploitation and much better at communication, so my views are very heavily influenced by that.

I understand and I agree.

ZOS is, IMO, unnecessarily secretive about exploits and does a poor job of communicating the status of bug fixes. Almost like if they ignore it, it'll go away.

Just post a notification when people log in: "There is a known exploit wherein players can obtain a skill point from a single quest/location/objective multiple times. Reminder: using exploits is a violation of the terms of service and you will be banned for exploiting this bug. Please press 'A' to acknowledge this message."

Hell, if it were me, I'd straight up advertise exactly what the exploit is in the warning message as a preventative measure.

Then, no one really has room to complain unless they truly hit the exploit by accident (which, based on my understanding of this particular bug, is entirely possible).

NewBlacksmurf

SMH just do a reset then....

3 days is a joke but guess it's more important to you that they can spend crowns
How about min of 30 days on first offense and 90 or permanent for 2nd and third not limited to multiples being enforced at one time

DarkAedin

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Last week, there was an exploit reported on PC that allowed you to repeatedly gain skill points from a single location. We have since fixed this issue as of our most recent incremental patch, but accounts had not yet been actioned… until now. This afternoon, we’ll be suspending close to 300 PC accounts that were found exploiting this issue. In addition to a 3-day suspension, affected accounts will have all skill points reset to their original state before this exploit occurred.

We encourage everyone to review the Terms of Service and Code of Conduct. If you’re unsure if you’ve found an exploit in ESO, please reach out to a staff member or contact Support.

DarkAedin wrote: »

I just got banned for this but quested normally and grabbed skyshards normally. Also have several pvp levels. I did not exploit. I quested through main story zones like we are supposed to. Zos help @ZOS_GaryA @ZOS_TristanK @ZOS_AmeliaR

I didnt farm any dungeons in vvarden.
I did one overworld boss 2 times on seperate occasions and i never stepped foot into any delves. I farmed some spriggan gear and some gear from malabal tor but thats it. I had no clue about any of this till i got banned and read this thread sigh

Kreatyve

My personal opinion is that 3 days isn't long enough, and it should be a week or longer, but that's just my opinion. Exploiters ruin so much for honest players. The devs have to stop whatever they are doing and work on a fix, and a fix is not always something that can happen right away, even if the devs become aware of it on day 1. And sometimes they have to fix things in a way that make things harder for honest players.

I don't see how anyone could "accidentally" exploit this one either. I don't have the details of this exploit, but to me "players can obtain a skill point from a single quest/location/objective multiple times" screams that it would be extremely obvious that there is a bug, which should be reported and not abused.

That's just my opinion on the matter. Do with it what you will.

bebynnag

based on how long fixes usually take to be addressed on console i assume this will be going live on may 6th!

NobleGuardian

So... Now ZOS is banning people for things that ZOS does wrong. ZOS doesnt know how to make a patch that doesnt break something, so the players who find these bugs are getting punished for ZOS's mistakes? Maybe instead of banning players for the mistakes of the devs they should take more time when making a new patch so that these bugs arent a thing in the first place. I find it very hard to understand how you can say "Oh yea we messed up and these players showed up what we did wrong, so lets ban them for 3 days," and be okay with that. just doesnt add up that all these players ended up finding a flaw in your game that you allow to go live and they get punished for it. Think ZOS needs to realize it was them who are in the wrong for letting this bug happen in the first place and not the players that found it.

NobleGuardian

White wabbit wrote: »

SickDuck wrote: »

3 day is good since they did not gain any long term advantage. Unlike xp, ap, gold or mats grinding exploiters.

Sorry but I don't agree needs to be longer and Zos needs to start setting examples to warn off this type of play

warn off what type of play? the type of play that ZOS punishes players for finding flaws in their game so they can fix it? because its the players that are in the wrong for this being a bug right?

MajBludd

Lmao, so because you run the dungeon then did a daily you get suspended. Great logic.
My first post ever on the forums. Been subscribing for almost 3yrs and never exploited anything in the game. So, to the ones that say the suspension should be more harsh, hopefully you enjoy such a situation at some point this in this game.

Vonbone

You know I'm just wondering if i need to stop player ESO now? I have never gotten a ban or do i have one now but if I'm going to get banned for anything they feel like at any time why waste my time playing.. Not a good investment move as a business. I'm talking with players that have this penalty imposed on them and they have no clue what they did. Do I really need to worry about losing my account to something I don't know I'm doing? I've played this game for 2+ years now. That's alot of time to lose.

LiquidPony

Kreatyve wrote: »

My personal opinion is that 3 days isn't long enough, and it should be a week or longer, but that's just my opinion. Exploiters ruin so much for honest players. The devs have to stop whatever they are doing and work on a fix, and a fix is not always something that can happen right away, even if the devs become aware of it on day 1. And sometimes they have to fix things in a way that make things harder for honest players.

I don't see how anyone could "accidentally" exploit this one either. I don't have the details of this exploit, but to me "players can obtain a skill point from a single quest/location/objective multiple times" screams that it would be extremely obvious that there is a bug, which should be reported and not abused.

That's just my opinion on the matter. Do with it what you will.

@Kreatyve

So you know how Public Dungeons have "Group Events," which can involve killing a boss, which grants a skill point?

So you know how people often farm Public Dungeons for gear, or for gold, or for XP, or for guild events?

Can you see how it would be very easy for someone to complete a "Group Event" multiple times and receive multiple skill points for doing so?

Hempyre

The first skill point -normal

The second skill point -hmmm interesting

The third skill point -exploiting

Any further explanation required?

Pretty clear in every game I've ever played using bugs and exploits is bannable.

Give your head a shake...

ManwithBeard9

NobleGuardian wrote: »

So... Now ZOS is banning people for things that ZOS does wrong. ZOS doesnt know how to make a patch that doesnt break something, so the players who find these bugs are getting punished for ZOS's mistakes? Maybe instead of banning players for the mistakes of the devs they should take more time when making a new patch so that these bugs arent a thing in the first place. I find it very hard to understand how you can say "Oh yea we messed up and these players showed up what we did wrong, so lets ban them for 3 days," and be okay with that. just doesnt add up that all these players ended up finding a flaw in your game that you allow to go live and they get punished for it. Think ZOS needs to realize it was them who are in the wrong for letting this bug happen in the first place and not the players that found it.

Not sure if ignorant of ToS or baiting

DarkAedin

Hempyre wrote: »

The first skill point -normal

The second skill point -hmmm interesting

The third skill point -exploiting

Any further explanation required?

Pretty clear in every game I've ever played using bugs and exploits is bannable.

Give your head a shake...

This never happened to me but i got banned anyway. I did not farm any vvardenfel delve

MajBludd

Yes, everybody is a cheat and no honest mistakes are made. Ban everybody

MajBludd

Can we rename that PD, which ever one it is, to Banhammer Dungeon?

LiquidPony

Hempyre wrote: »

The first skill point -normal

The second skill point -hmmm interesting

The third skill point -exploiting

Any further explanation required?

Pretty clear in every game I've ever played using bugs and exploits is bannable.

Give your head a shake...

This assumes that players are aware of how Skill Points are granted in Public Dungeons and also puts the responsibility on players to cease normal gameplay because of a bug. I understand that ZOS can put whatever they want in the TOS and shift the burden of responsibility to the players.

But the world isn't black and white. Some "exploits" are more heinous than others. This one is pretty innocent and far too easy to accidentally encounter.

ManwithBeard9

LiquidPony wrote: »

Hempyre wrote: »

The first skill point -normal

The second skill point -hmmm interesting

The third skill point -exploiting

Any further explanation required?

Pretty clear in every game I've ever played using bugs and exploits is bannable.

Give your head a shake...

This assumes that players are aware of how Skill Points are granted in Group Dungeons and also puts the responsibility on players to cease normal gameplay because of a bug. I understand that ZOS can put whatever they want in the TOS and shift the burden of responsibility to the players.

But the world isn't black and white. Some "exploits" are more heinous than others. This one is pretty innocent and far to easy to accidentally encounter.

And thats why its only 3 days and not more (assuming they have no previous infractions)

LiquidPony

ManwithBeard9 wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

Hempyre wrote: »

The first skill point -normal

The second skill point -hmmm interesting

The third skill point -exploiting

Any further explanation required?

Pretty clear in every game I've ever played using bugs and exploits is bannable.

Give your head a shake...

This assumes that players are aware of how Skill Points are granted in Group Dungeons and also puts the responsibility on players to cease normal gameplay because of a bug. I understand that ZOS can put whatever they want in the TOS and shift the burden of responsibility to the players.

But the world isn't black and white. Some "exploits" are more heinous than others. This one is pretty innocent and far to easy to accidentally encounter.

And thats why its only 3 days and not more (assuming they have no previous infractions)

It's still ridiculous. Just revert the skill points and, if necessary, issue a warning. No reason to get ban-happy over something that any random player who decided to kill a Public Dungeon boss twice would be guilty of "exploiting."

I just spent an hour camping a Public Dungeon event last weekend, helping a guildie farm some gear. I was browsing Reddit on my phone while intermittently throwing out Caltrops and Endless Hail. Not sure I would've even noticed I was obtaining multiple skill points until after the fact, and then it would have been a head scratcher ... "did I really have that many unused skill points? Huh. Don't remember. Oh well."