Skill Point Exploit & Account Suspensions

MajBludd

So, is it listed as a suspension for a known exploit or a suspension for an exploit? If a know exploit, when did it become know to the player base?

ManwithBeard9

LiquidPony wrote: »

ManwithBeard9 wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

Hempyre wrote: »

The first skill point -normal

The second skill point -hmmm interesting

The third skill point -exploiting

Any further explanation required?

Pretty clear in every game I've ever played using bugs and exploits is bannable.

Give your head a shake...

This assumes that players are aware of how Skill Points are granted in Group Dungeons and also puts the responsibility on players to cease normal gameplay because of a bug. I understand that ZOS can put whatever they want in the TOS and shift the burden of responsibility to the players.

But the world isn't black and white. Some "exploits" are more heinous than others. This one is pretty innocent and far to easy to accidentally encounter.

And thats why its only 3 days and not more (assuming they have no previous infractions)

It's still ridiculous. Just revert the skill points and, if necessary, issue a warning. No reason to get ban-happy over something that any random player who decided to kill a Public Dungeon boss twice would be guilty of "exploiting."

I just spent an hour camping a Public Dungeon event last weekend, helping a guildie farm some gear. I was browsing Reddit on my phone while intermittently throwing out Caltrops and Endless Hail. Not sure I would've even noticed I was obtaining multiple skill points until after the fact, and then it would have been a head scratcher ... "did I really have that many unused skill points? Huh. Don't remember. Oh well."

Sounds like you were botting.

rullof

Yes

LiquidPony

ManwithBeard9 wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

ManwithBeard9 wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

Hempyre wrote: »

The first skill point -normal

The second skill point -hmmm interesting

The third skill point -exploiting

Any further explanation required?

Pretty clear in every game I've ever played using bugs and exploits is bannable.

Give your head a shake...

This assumes that players are aware of how Skill Points are granted in Group Dungeons and also puts the responsibility on players to cease normal gameplay because of a bug. I understand that ZOS can put whatever they want in the TOS and shift the burden of responsibility to the players.

But the world isn't black and white. Some "exploits" are more heinous than others. This one is pretty innocent and far to easy to accidentally encounter.

And thats why its only 3 days and not more (assuming they have no previous infractions)

It's still ridiculous. Just revert the skill points and, if necessary, issue a warning. No reason to get ban-happy over something that any random player who decided to kill a Public Dungeon boss twice would be guilty of "exploiting."

I just spent an hour camping a Public Dungeon event last weekend, helping a guildie farm some gear. I was browsing Reddit on my phone while intermittently throwing out Caltrops and Endless Hail. Not sure I would've even noticed I was obtaining multiple skill points until after the fact, and then it would have been a head scratcher ... "did I really have that many unused skill points? Huh. Don't remember. Oh well."

Sounds like you were botting.

@ManwithBeard9

Sounds like you don't know what "botting" is. I'll give you a hint: actively pressing buttons to play the game while not fully paying attention to what's going on on-screen is not "botting."

That's got to be the dumbest thing I've read all day. So kudos for that.

Bouldercleave

DarkAedin wrote: »

Hempyre wrote: »

The first skill point -normal

The second skill point -hmmm interesting

The third skill point -exploiting

Any further explanation required?

Pretty clear in every game I've ever played using bugs and exploits is bannable.

Give your head a shake...

This never happened to me but i got banned anyway. I did not farm any vvardenfel delve

They never said it was Vvardenfell as far as I'm aware. I may be wrong.

ewhite106b16_ESO

So appeal to reverse ban denied by customer service, and I'm still not even sure WTF it was I did that "violated the terms of service" and was a "skill point exploit". Seriously ZOS....this has gotten beyond ridiculous. You suspend innocent players who stumbled onto some kind of exploit without knowing it, then they are left to appeal the exploit suspension WITHOUT EVEN KNOWING WHAT THEY DID IN THE FIRST PLACE! What I wrote above was based on a wild guess and forum speculation.

Only thing I can guess is that something I did involving gaining skill points happened to be bugged, and my account showed up in a database query from a given time range....then you just went ahead and suspended everyone who stumbled on the bug without any real consideration whatsoever. Seriously, why should anyone who accidentally stumbles onto a bug and gets randomly suspended bother with this game anymore?

Sounds like ZOS just did a database pull of whoever did the "bugged skill point gaining thing" within a certain window of time and suspended them with little or no consideration whatsoever of the circumstances (ie suspending people for playing the game normally and tripping over a bug without knowing it or intending to exploit it).

DarkAedin

Bouldercleave wrote: »

DarkAedin wrote: »

Hempyre wrote: »

The first skill point -normal

The second skill point -hmmm interesting

The third skill point -exploiting

Any further explanation required?

Pretty clear in every game I've ever played using bugs and exploits is bannable.

Give your head a shake...

This never happened to me but i got banned anyway. I did not farm any vvardenfel delve

They never said it was Vvardenfell as far as I'm aware. I may be wrong.

The most i know about this ive learned today. On this thread. After my ban.
The only thing i farmed was spriggans and that was 1 days worth i got no xtra skill points

MajBludd

According to some that have posted , you know what you did and should get a 7 day suspension.

Once again, I ask when did they post that this was a known exploit on the forums? I usually browse the forums each day and haven't recalled seeing a post up until today.

So, if it wasn't known to the player base or that information wasn't given out, how would you know you were doing something wrong so to speak?

Moi_523

What is wrong with this scenario? I get banned for 3 days (and who knows what setbacks on my character because its very unclear as to what you are going to do) because i happened to be in a dungeon that had a bug on the particular day i decided to do it and in the normal course of doing a dungeon i killed a boss more than once that give more skill points than it should have. Yet continually people uses racist and homophobic slurs in chat and when i report it i get told i should just ignore them and move on with playing?? You really need to get your priorities straight Zemimax.

Oh and by the way the dungeon was not in the new area for those that thought it was, I don't even have the new content. I believe it is the public dungeon in bangkori but tbh i don't know for sure because I did not knowingly exploit anything and happened to be working on my public dungeon achievements last week and that was one of the ones I did.

MajBludd

Yes, it is a little confusing when we had people using CE. Knowingly exploiting, get a 7 day ban.

I guess I need to keep a log book of every skill point I gain so I don't get a suspension again.

Elsonso

LiquidPony wrote: »

ManwithBeard9 wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

Hempyre wrote: »

The first skill point -normal

The second skill point -hmmm interesting

The third skill point -exploiting

Any further explanation required?

Pretty clear in every game I've ever played using bugs and exploits is bannable.

Give your head a shake...

This assumes that players are aware of how Skill Points are granted in Group Dungeons and also puts the responsibility on players to cease normal gameplay because of a bug. I understand that ZOS can put whatever they want in the TOS and shift the burden of responsibility to the players.

But the world isn't black and white. Some "exploits" are more heinous than others. This one is pretty innocent and far to easy to accidentally encounter.

And thats why its only 3 days and not more (assuming they have no previous infractions)

It's still ridiculous. Just revert the skill points and, if necessary, issue a warning. No reason to get ban-happy over something that any random player who decided to kill a Public Dungeon boss twice would be guilty of "exploiting."

I just spent an hour camping a Public Dungeon event last weekend, helping a guildie farm some gear. I was browsing Reddit on my phone while intermittently throwing out Caltrops and Endless Hail. Not sure I would've even noticed I was obtaining multiple skill points until after the fact, and then it would have been a head scratcher ... "did I really have that many unused skill points? Huh. Don't remember. Oh well."

Skill points are a fairly rare commodity, so if you see you are getting them with some regularity by doing an action over and over, something is wrong. I don't know this exploit, but I have to assume there was a notification that skill points were being earned flashed in the center of the screen.

So, yeah, a 3 day suspension is not out of line, along with removal of the additional skill points, for people who they catch.

If I know ZOS, they had a threshold. It probably took more than a couple times to show up on the radar. If there was an innocent player in all of this, I have no idea how they could prove that they did not notice they were farming skill points.

MajBludd

Possibly by not paying attention to the fact you are getting a skill point. Not everyone is malicious.
It is what it is but some of us had no clue what we did.

DarkAedin

Moi_523 wrote: »

What is wrong with this scenario? I get banned for 3 days (and who knows what setbacks on my character because its very unclear as to what you are going to do) because i happened to be in a dungeon that had a bug on the particular day i decided to do it and in the normal course of doing a dungeon i killed a boss more than once that give more skill points than it should have. Yet continually people uses racist and homophobic slurs in chat and when i report it i get told i should just ignore them and move on with playing?? You really need to get your priorities straight Zemimax.

Oh and by the way the dungeon was not in the new area for those that thought it was, I don't even have the new content. I believe it is the public dungeon in bangkori but tbh i don't know for sure because I did not knowingly exploit anything and happened to be working on my public dungeon achievements last week and that was one of the ones I did.

This must be it. Trying to think of places where i was and i farmed out a lowbie setup for 7th legion/spriggans for lowbie pvp. Thnx zos

MajBludd

Yeah, that is all I can think it was. I farmed sprigs for pvp. I would hit the dolmens for jewelry then the public dungeon for 2 pcs of gear. Then back to pvp

radiospam

3 day ZOS vacation because of a buggy dungeon. GG

Vonbone

lordrichter wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

ManwithBeard9 wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

Hempyre wrote: »

The first skill point -normal

The second skill point -hmmm interesting

The third skill point -exploiting

Any further explanation required?

Pretty clear in every game I've ever played using bugs and exploits is bannable.

Give your head a shake...

This assumes that players are aware of how Skill Points are granted in Group Dungeons and also puts the responsibility on players to cease normal gameplay because of a bug. I understand that ZOS can put whatever they want in the TOS and shift the burden of responsibility to the players.

But the world isn't black and white. Some "exploits" are more heinous than others. This one is pretty innocent and far to easy to accidentally encounter.

And thats why its only 3 days and not more (assuming they have no previous infractions)

It's still ridiculous. Just revert the skill points and, if necessary, issue a warning. No reason to get ban-happy over something that any random player who decided to kill a Public Dungeon boss twice would be guilty of "exploiting."

I just spent an hour camping a Public Dungeon event last weekend, helping a guildie farm some gear. I was browsing Reddit on my phone while intermittently throwing out Caltrops and Endless Hail. Not sure I would've even noticed I was obtaining multiple skill points until after the fact, and then it would have been a head scratcher ... "did I really have that many unused skill points? Huh. Don't remember. Oh well."

Skill points are a fairly rare commodity, so if you see you are getting them with some regularity by doing an action over and over, something is wrong. I don't know this exploit, but I have to assume there was a notification that skill points were being earned flashed in the center of the screen.

So, yeah, a 3 day suspension is not out of line, along with removal of the additional skill points, for people who they catch.

If I know ZOS, they had a threshold. It probably took more than a couple times to show up on the radar. If there was an innocent player in all of this, I have no idea how they could prove that they did not notice they were farming skill points.

Skill points are fairly rare? You must not pvp. The starter quest in the cyrodill gives you 2 points just to skip the quest. I've gotten 5 or 6 points before I realized I'd even gotten them in pvp. So rare. No.

DarkAedin

MajBludd wrote: »

Yeah, that is all I can think it was. I farmed sprigs for pvp. I would hit the dolmens for jewelry then the public dungeon for 2 pcs of gear. Then back to pvp

Thats 3 of us confirming that we were farming spriggans. At least i know what i did "wrong" now. Not that the *** who answered the email was any help. All he could do was tell me i was one of the worst exploiters! Amd then closed my ticket. Thanks for ur help zos!!

Mojmir

Wish I knew which dungeon so I don't go there,lol.god forbid someone accidentally ya know play the game and farm for gear.

DarkAedin

Dont care bout the excess skillpoints. I didnt even know i had em. Are we just gonna get boned for 72 hrs bc they fubard? And they want my money? Maybe ill go get a refund and a new dog

DarkAedin

Mojmir wrote: »

Wish I knew which dungeon so I don't go there,lol.god forbid someone accidentally ya know play the game and farm for gear.

Srsly. First time i even heard about this was after i was banned and hopped on the forums. How was i to know? I just wanted to farm gear for my lowbie warden for kyne pvp!

ManwithBeard9

Mojmir wrote: »

Wish I knew which dungeon so I don't go there,lol.god forbid someone accidentally ya know play the game and farm for gear.

I forget where it was said, but someone said Bangkorai, so the people saying the were farming Spriggans would make sense.

OutLaw_Nynx

Would like to know where this happening so I can avoid this area when I get morrowind on console or will this be fixed prior to launch?

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom

MajBludd

Yeah, that's why I asked the question when did it become known? Why did they wait til today to post that it was an "exploit" after they decided to suspend 300 + people?

Think the best for of action would have been the following;
We found this issue with our coding or whatever and we will do maintenance to fix the issue. At which time your skill points will be reset.

ManwithBeard9

Exploits arent widely known until its been abused for a while. There are people that play exclusively to find exploits, some to report, others to keep hidden and gain an unfair advantage. Writ survey exploit that became easier with the banker, gap closing into keeps, numerous other skills, Cheat Engine, all that stuff stays secret until non-cancerous people find out about it and report it.

MissBizz

Here's a thought.

Whether true or not, I don't know, but people are claiming they had no clue about this and are now on suspension.

We know Zos knew, heck there was a thread on the forums - but it didn't say what dungeon(s).

What IF... when Zos knew, they put a popup in game stating "There is a known exploit pertaining the X and Y dungeons bosses. Please do not defeat these bosses more than once until a fix has been put in place"

That way, anyone who does it after that, is damn sure aware of it.

To be honest, it might stop some from exploiting it... since they know Zos knows.

Montayva

A friend and I discovered this (not claiming to be the first, by any means) while we were leveling our new toons and getting skyshards. Despite the fact that we reported it and left the area as soon as we realized what was going on, we both still got the banhammer gg. Would like to know how they determined guilty parties. Skill point gain after entering this delve? I wonder how many innocent suspects are banned as they were leveling new Wardens (or new characters in general) like us and gathering shards and group event skill points.

out51d3r

Skill points aren't rare, at all. I've got like 300 of them, and I usually have 5-10 unspent. Aside from skyshards(due to addon), I don't keep track of where I've gotten them from, and I most likely don't notice every time I get them, especially when multiple quest completions, champion points, and whatever else is being flashed in my face at the same time. For all I know I've gotten extra skill points from the same dungeon/quest/whatever myself. It's not my job to remember where those 300 skill points came from. It is completely asinine to suspend people over something like this. Fix the bug, take away any incorrectly rewarded rewards, and call it done.

Note: I didn't get suspended for this.

MajBludd

I get that, but is this really on the same level as, say, using CE?
I see no point to in whining about the suspension. Not much point in it. It's in their hands. So, if I grind a dungeon and dot really pay attention to the fact I'm getting an extra skill point or points, how would I know unless I get a warning as to this exploit?
90% of my time is spent in Cyro. I pve to hit lvl 10 then got to BWB or Kyne, as it's called now. I go back to pve to grind gear. So I don't exactly pay attention to what skill points I get and from where.

Elsonso

Vonbone wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

ManwithBeard9 wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

Hempyre wrote: »

The first skill point -normal

The second skill point -hmmm interesting

The third skill point -exploiting

Any further explanation required?

Pretty clear in every game I've ever played using bugs and exploits is bannable.

Give your head a shake...

This assumes that players are aware of how Skill Points are granted in Group Dungeons and also puts the responsibility on players to cease normal gameplay because of a bug. I understand that ZOS can put whatever they want in the TOS and shift the burden of responsibility to the players.

But the world isn't black and white. Some "exploits" are more heinous than others. This one is pretty innocent and far to easy to accidentally encounter.

And thats why its only 3 days and not more (assuming they have no previous infractions)

It's still ridiculous. Just revert the skill points and, if necessary, issue a warning. No reason to get ban-happy over something that any random player who decided to kill a Public Dungeon boss twice would be guilty of "exploiting."

I just spent an hour camping a Public Dungeon event last weekend, helping a guildie farm some gear. I was browsing Reddit on my phone while intermittently throwing out Caltrops and Endless Hail. Not sure I would've even noticed I was obtaining multiple skill points until after the fact, and then it would have been a head scratcher ... "did I really have that many unused skill points? Huh. Don't remember. Oh well."

Skill points are a fairly rare commodity, so if you see you are getting them with some regularity by doing an action over and over, something is wrong. I don't know this exploit, but I have to assume there was a notification that skill points were being earned flashed in the center of the screen.

So, yeah, a 3 day suspension is not out of line, along with removal of the additional skill points, for people who they catch.

If I know ZOS, they had a threshold. It probably took more than a couple times to show up on the radar. If there was an innocent player in all of this, I have no idea how they could prove that they did not notice they were farming skill points.

Skill points are fairly rare? You must not pvp. The starter quest in the cyrodill gives you 2 points just to skip the quest. I've gotten 5 or 6 points before I realized I'd even gotten them in pvp. So rare. No.

Yes, fairly rare. Seriously. Getting 5 or 6 is nothing, and you aren't getting that every day for doing the same things.

Mojmir wrote: »

Wish I knew which dungeon so I don't go there,lol.god forbid someone accidentally ya know play the game and farm for gear.

Well, they fixed it, so I guess it is not a worry. A dungeon boss that awards a skill point does not sound familiar to me, so I have no idea where this was or how it worked. I am curious, though.

MajBludd

I'm curious too, and I got suspended