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「Desired Changes for DKs in Morrowind」Compendium of my desired changes for Dragon Knights

  • Durham
    Durham
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    Dorrino wrote: »
    MaxwellC wrote: »
    @Dorrino
    No, there's no exactly you completely ignored what I stated before which was the use of multiple abilities before executing with onslaught. No one simply just goes in and ulti slams an opponent and expects he/she to die immediately if that's your thinking then I'm not sure what to say.

    I didn't ignore anything. You do these attacks with any ultimate of your choice, thus this information is irrelevant to the comparison at hand.
    MaxwellC wrote: »
    Off balanced target as I stated I would knock back an opponent before using my ultimate or even using fossilize.

    Knock-backs don't apply off-balanced (unless it's a hidded proc in this cc category, then i'd like to have a source for that).

    Fossilize will invalidate the whole burst chain with any ultimate, since you just granted free 7 sec of cc immunity for the target to block/dodge/shield any subsequent damage.
    MaxwellC wrote: »
    Not sure if DS gets dodged, leap + execute still works lol

    If the target dodges ds the follow-up leap WILL hit it, since it will be in the middle of the dodge. That's the main allure of db/leap.
    MaxwellC wrote: »
    You're trying to push your narrative while ignoring that the same thing applies to any other close range ultimate as you stated at close range it's hard to dodge.

    I'm sorry, but i'm not pushing anything here. I'm explaining why db/leap is better and much wider used than onslaught. Please, try to keep this discussion civil.
    MaxwellC wrote: »
    Leap may apply the damage regardless but yet again it still is mitigated by armor and skills in play while onslaught will hit through it. Even if I miss, I miss and keep fighting; the lack of an ultimate on hand does not handicap me entirely.

    This is correct.
    MaxwellC wrote: »
    Onslaught costs more yet it provides mitigation if it hits the target and if it kills the target it provides you with another ultimate use immediately which aids the passive battle roar.

    This is correct as well.

    And never the less overall effectiveness of onslaught is noticeably lower than db/leap. Onslaught is such a skill that looks awesome and op on paper, but performs much worse than that.

    As a stamblade main, it's was quite obvious to me that onslaught would be a subpar skill from the start, because i know how hard it is to land an incap:) And onslaught has twice the costs, thus you waste twice as much ult when it misses.
    MaxwellC wrote: »
    Since you're most likely actively playing DK as I'm on a hiatus from the game until they make improvements to cyrodiil. Make a video and show me (using the exact same combo you would use on take flight) how its better. I have used take flight in the past and hand fun with it when it came to leaping into keeps (when they were heavily guarded) killing a few then escaping, or when I was emperor 1 hitting players before they nerf'd emperor.

    I don't play dks. My experience comes from the receiving end. What i described is what stamDk meta is right now.

    You can watch for instance Kodi's streams on twitch if you're looking for quality multiclass pvp content (including stamdk).

    edit: actually watch this from 1 hour mark.

    If THIS is not an example of current state of stamdk pvp meta, i don't know what is:)


    You watch Kodie.... so your basing viewpoints off streaming lol.. its called editing man ... and what he is running is old news man his stam DK video is a bit dated. I believe he is running Fury in his last video... Also most of the stam dk videos that you see out there are older with the vitality potions which is what made shield players OP..... Right now I have no issue with most DK out there most are fairly easy to take down honestly ... On test Stam DK's are like buffed up mud crabs ...
    Edited by Durham on May 3, 2017 2:03AM
    PVP DEADWAIT
    PVE Eternal Destiny
  • MaxwellC
    MaxwellC
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    @Dorrino
    I watched a bit of it and he uses take flight as a tactic which is effective when he's 1vXing a grouped a target which is only possible because he's rocking HA armor meta. He's a good DK since he knows how to utilize his skills correctly I won't dis that but I can't tell what HA armor he's using I know he's using blood spawn for extra mitigation but he's either using fasalla or something else can't tell.

    I do not play meta DK I stay away from proc sets and Heavy armor.
    不動の Steadfast - Unwavering
    XBL Gamer Tag - Maxwell
    XB1 Maxwell Crystal - NA DC CP 800+ Redguard Stamina DK
    XB1 Max Crystal - NA DC CP 800+ Brenton Magicka DK
    PC Maxwell-Crystal - NA DC - CP 200+ Brenton Magicka DK 「Retired」
    Band Camp statements: To state "But this one time I saw X doing X... so that justifies X" Refers to the Band camp statement.
    Coined by Maxwel
    l
  • Dorrino
    Dorrino
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    Durham wrote: »
    You watch Kodie.... so your basing viewpoints off streaming lol.. its called editing man ... and what he is running is old news man his stam DK video is a bit dated. I believe he is running Fury in his last video... Also most of the stam dk videos that you see out there are older with the vitality potions which is what made shield players OP.....

    It's a link to his 3-days old stream:) Live.

    I'd love to link anybody else, but i know nobody with a similar skill level playing stamdk who streams. Jules, maybe?
    Durham wrote: »
    Right now I have no issue with most DK out there most are fairly easy to take down honestly ... On test Stam DK's are like buffed up mud crabs ...

    Most mediocre players are really easy to kill:) That goes without words.
    MaxwellC wrote: »
    @Dorrino
    I watched a bit of it and he uses take flight as a tactic which is effective when he's 1vXing a grouped a target which is only possible because he's rocking HA armor meta. He's a good DK since he knows how to utilize his skills correctly I won't dis that but I can't tell what HA armor he's using I know he's using blood spawn for extra mitigation but he's either using fasalla or something else can't tell.

    Fury, obviously. And some other 3-set for stats.
    MaxwellC wrote: »
    I do not play meta DK I stay away from proc sets and Heavy armor.

    Then i'm terribly sorry, but i don't see how can we discuss stamDK state in pvp. We can't just discard its strongest points and say that 'all the rest is kinda bad':)
  • Durham
    Durham
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    Dorrino wrote: »
    Durham wrote: »
    You watch Kodie.... so your basing viewpoints off streaming lol.. its called editing man ... and what he is running is old news man his stam DK video is a bit dated. I believe he is running Fury in his last video... Also most of the stam dk videos that you see out there are older with the vitality potions which is what made shield players OP.....

    It's a link to his 3-days old stream:) Live.

    I'd love to link anybody else, but i know nobody with a similar skill level playing stamdk who streams. Jules, maybe?
    Durham wrote: »
    Right now I have no issue with most DK out there most are fairly easy to take down honestly ... On test Stam DK's are like buffed up mud crabs ...

    Most mediocre players are really easy to kill:) That goes without words.
    MaxwellC wrote: »
    @Dorrino
    I watched a bit of it and he uses take flight as a tactic which is effective when he's 1vXing a grouped a target which is only possible because he's rocking HA armor meta. He's a good DK since he knows how to utilize his skills correctly I won't dis that but I can't tell what HA armor he's using I know he's using blood spawn for extra mitigation but he's either using fasalla or something else can't tell.

    Fury, obviously. And some other 3-set for stats.
    MaxwellC wrote: »
    I do not play meta DK I stay away from proc sets and Heavy armor.

    Then i'm terribly sorry, but i don't see how can we discuss stamDK state in pvp. We can't just discard its strongest points and say that 'all the rest is kinda bad':)

    All the strong points it has in PVP are gone on test lol...
    Umm Jules was on fengrush stream not to long ago talking about this crap and how much crap it was lol....

    I know all about Kodie and Jules I have fought them many times yes they are both good ... yes DK are strong now but on the test they are crap... I have tested and tested ... I have a rank 40 one that I play every night I mostly small man and solo also ...

    The heavy armor DK is a recent meta btw... When we were in medium those were the fun days but they nerfed the main way we did our burst back then ...

    RIGHT NOW IT'S BROKE THERE IS NOT ENOUGH SYNERGY WITH STAM...
    PVP DEADWAIT
    PVE Eternal Destiny
  • NBrookus
    NBrookus
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    Dorrino wrote: »
    So superficially it seems like magdk should have better stam sustain, while magplar should have better mag sustain (not taking into account battle roar for mag returns).

    Is this correct?

    Even taking into account Battle Roar as it is on live, magplar has better magicka sustain. (Both in heavy.) On PTS, the difference is even greater.

    DKs on live have better stamina sustain; on PTS I'd call it still slightly better than magplar, but magplars need stamina less than DKs. A LOT less. The Helping Hands change slightly buffs magicka DK stam regen, but it's fairly insignificant.

    Here's all I can think of for a pvp style test, and it has it's limitations, but fighting a person requires keeping up buffs, blocking/shielding, etc. the way a test dummy does not. No potions.
    Put template dunmer sorc in typical sorc gear. 3 or 4 sparring-style duels against one person. (I.E. not particularly going for a kill since we are testing sustain.)
    Put template dunmer DK in the same gear. Duel same person.
    Compare resource management times.
    PC NA
    Dunmer Magicka DK, Argonian Magicka Templar, Altmer Magicka NB, Breton Magicka Sorcerer, Orc Stamina Warden
    Breton Magicka Sorcerer, Argonian Magicka Templar, Orc Stamina DK, Bosmer Stamina NB, Nord Stamina Warden, Redguard Stamina Necro
    Dunmer Magicka DK, Argonian Magicka Templar, Altmer Magicka Sorcerer
  • Allu07neb18_ESO
    DK is stand your ground class and with all these nerfs idk how we are able to do that? Heavy armor, blocking,igneous, battleroar, cp system nerfs pushing us to light armor and we still have to get lot of sustain. probably 2 sustain sets?

    Idk is there anymore any reason to go with 2x S&B. resto staff is my personal choice because only reason why you slot igneous shield is helping hands and mountains blessing. You can just use fossalize/shattering rocks to get those passives. If you dont use igneous shield is there any good reason to use dragon blood? Restostaff also gives me some magicka sustain.

    And how we going to survive? our survivability is nerfed to the ground. You cant block nothing in no cp campaing or battlegrounds. We dont have mobility. we are stacking healing ward and harness and try to mistform.

    And we have to always use our ultimate when it is ready because our sustain sucks and we need some resources.

    We cant kill good player without ultimate in live server and usually we cant kill them even with ultimate. So how we going to do that now if we have to stack more sustain and our damage is going down?

    Perhaps we have to use destro staff heavy attack build and be glass cannons.
  • Yuke
    Yuke
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    I'd love to see one of the Stonefist morphs going full stamina morph.

    Increased Damage + CC + Minor Protection/Mending. Something similar to the power level of Warden Skills...
    *** this *** im out.

    Noricum & Kitesquad™
    YT-Channel
  • Enslaved
    Enslaved
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    Beautiful post. I agree with many things that you wrote, but would like to add some comments and tweak stuff a bit.
    MaxwellC wrote: »
    First I will state that yes, I have played the beta both on a PC template (since my PC character is a Mag DK) and on my mates DK when he came over (since he has a lot of gear that I can mess with). I made a thread talking about my disdain for the terrible changes to the Stam DK variant but also DK as a whole, with the newest patch.
    Obviously this isn't the final phase as Morrowind comes out in June but I feel that I need to strongly voice my opinions with these changes, especially since this is a class that I loved to play when it was all about standing my ground and the more opponents the bigger threat I become. Unfortunately the DK class has been gutted from what it used to be with some changes argubly fair while others completely unjust.
    So now I will start with what I desire for the DK class which more than likely will never happen as the game changes are around the corner. I should mention I've more than certain I've made threads like this a while ago.
    9a1c38d3c666dfde4572d8e04fcd6e.png

    ARDENT FLAME

    DragonKnight
    • Standard of Might - I believe this should go back to 200 ultimate and provide the original 50% defile as this is an ultimate and it needs to be unique
    • Shifting Standard - Reduce the ultimate to 150 and also have the 50% defile apply.
    The reasoning behind the changes as it was practically stated was because the current gameplay there is nothing OP about having standard of might as a 200 costing ultimate in the PvP crowd nor is it OP in PvE. I also feel the unique defile needs to return because like I said this is an ultimate, why should an ultimate have the same debuffs a regular skill has when it's something you save up to use and cannot use consistently within a 5 second time frame.
    I would like this a lot, only thing I would change is way this defile would work. Initial defile would be lower, and the longer an enemy stands inside the Standard's AOE range, defile would grow stronger. For example, initial would be 10% defile, each tick would bring 5-10% more, and after 3 ticks that amount of defile would persist for 3 seconds even if you left AOE or standard expired.

    Lava Whip
    • Molten Whip - I feel instead of gaining spell damage (per tool-tip description) you should get increased spell penetration
    • Flame Lash - The 5% increase for this PTS patch should be reverted, it already preforms good enough on live.
    I feel that increased spell penetration would overall be better instead of increased spell damage in regards to molten whip. Lava whip as stated preforms well and with the current soft cc/hard cc spam it preforms just fine in PvP.
    Would be interesting to see the Molten Whip change to penetration, but not sure if we need this change in PvE enviroment, since most groups that knows what to do bring boss resistances to zero, anyways. Thus, you would actually underperform compared to what we do now. On the other hand, both morphs of the whip could have an interesting, stackable mechanic, that would make each consecutive whip penetrating 250 or so more spell resistance off target, capped at 1-1.5k penetration. This would help mDK in both PvE and PvP, in small scale or when solo.

    Searing Strike
    • Venomous Claw - It's fine although I still want a blue claw animation but regardless this preforms fine.
    • Burning Embers - Change the heal from instant to a Heal over time when reapplying for said heal.
    Venomous claw preforms fine in PvE so no changes needed; in PvP it's dismal but we'll come back to that later. Burning embers changes is because we have a consistent heal from our class now (Coagulated blood). Some may voice their opposition but I feel it's fair especially if the HoT was within 5-10 seconds max.
    I don't agree about embers, I think it's heal is the main thing that make you going in tight situations. Maybe it is strong, but also since everything will cost much more, making this only a HoT would hurt mDK a lot.

    Fiery Breath
    • Noxious Breath - Remove or reduce the animation when using it and look into the reliability for it's debuff/actually hitting the target. I also suggest increasing the range by 2m and possibly increasing the cones radius.
    • Engulfing Flames - Same as noxious breath.
    The reliability of both of these skills is annoying since sometimes mobs or players will somehow dodge the ability in front of you or noxious breath will not apply it's debuff. I also fee the range is a tad short; I do wish the stamina version was changed to blue flames.
    I think these should be undogeable if you hit enemies with it. I don't think range is too bad, if you make it undogeable.
    Also, maybe there could be an additional effect if you re apply it, like 10% more damage or something.

    Fiery Grip
    • Empowering Chains - Take away expedition and replace it with minor breech.
    • Unrelenting Change - Take away major expedition and replace it with minor maim reduce cost by 1500 Magicka.
    I feel expedition on a DK who is about standing your ground is pretty contradicting. Minor breech would aid dps in PvP while minor maim would prioritize PvE although it could/can be deemed useless.
    Interesting, maybe could be made to inflict minor breach if you use claw/embers 2 seconds after you used chains on same target. Would add a bit of combo into sometimes boring DK rotations.

    Inferno
    • Flames Of Oblivion - Change this ability to an AoE while keeping it scaling to max damage stat.
    • Cauterize - Make it what current flames of oblivion is on live but also add a DoT when it hits the target. The DoT applied can or should be around 20-30% of your tool-tip damage.
    Flames of Oblivion AoE would benefit Stam DKs who do not have a really good class specific AoE, in the past this was an AoE and I feel it's time for it to become one again. Cauterize, this ability I do not feel any DK healer uses (coming from a DK healer), I've never seen a DK use this but changing it to a single target damage ability with an added DoT would be something I'd feel most people would like.
    I disagree about Cauterize. It should be changed to deal 1-2-3-2-1 number of healing flames each tick, and if friendly target healed was under 50% you should get 3 seconds of major mending.

    Combustion - Is fine

    Warmth - Remove the passive and replace it with something like...
    • Ardent Catalyst - When dealing damage with Ardent flame abilities, have a 2% and 5% chance of causing a(n) explosion dealing X damage based on the amount of ardent flame skills on your bar (could be based on the damage dealt by ardent flame abilities but I feel that is a bit powerful.
    I feel this adds to the "stand your ground" aspect that DKs were designed to have. Ardent flame abilities are close ranged abilities thus meaning you need to be in range (right next to them) for it to work. This also makes ardent flame abilities especially DoTs more useful in PvP for Stam DK.
    Warmth could be transformed into pseudo execute, something like "melting", making targets under multiple dots having 5% chance to proc 2x dot multiplier for 5 seconds every 20 seconds or so, while keeping the slow chance we have now.

    World in Ruin - Is fine

    DRACONIC POWER

    Dragon Leap - Is fine where it's at, nothing needed as it preforms well for both morphs.

    Spiked Armor
    • Hardened armor - Increase the duration of the shield you get and maybe bump it to 20%. The duration should be 6 seconds.
    • Spiked armor - Is fine
    Honestly this was difficult because minor maim would've worked but then that would be redundant because of chains. I thought minor protection but then that could just be OP so I went with the duration increase and shield size increase although I feel 30% would be better. Spiked armor does fine as it is now and it much more useful to use in comparison to hardened armor IMO (as it is currently on live).

    Choking Talons
    • Burning Talons -Increase the DoT damage.
    • Choking Talons - Make this ability utilize your highest resource or just make it stamina based.
    I feel the DoT increase would be welcomed and fair especially with the cost reduction being removed and our skills being incredibly costly. Choking talons needs to utilize your highest resource as this is extremely costly. I do not want a cost reduction as this promotes soft cc spam which is annoying.
    Not sure how good would transfer to stamina feel for choking talons... As tank, you need stamina to block, burning 3.5k stamina on this would be a luxury you won't have. And as DD, you are hit into the tusks by stamina cost increase, vigor cost increase, etc. If mDK, why on Nirn would you use stamina morph wjhen your pool is either way one cast away from being unable to CC break.

    Dragon's blood
    • Green Dragon's blood - Have it restore a fix amount of stamina over time and reduce the cost of the ability by 1,000. (Have the stamina restored be based off of your max stamina).
    • Coagulated Blood - Reduce cost by 1,000.
    I feel that Green dragon's blood is completely useless as stam recovery isn't exactly helpful especially when it's a byproduct of the same old terrible heal.
    The stamina on return ca be a problem with permablocking builds but that just needs adjustments to certain passives and with the sustain nerf incoming it shouldn't be a problem. Coag and well dragon's blood in general needs a cost reduction as it's extremely expensive.

    Reflective Scales
    • Reflective plate - Change name to Absorption plate and have it restore a fix amount of stamina or magicka (depending on the targets attack) e.g. restoring 300 stamina for each poison injection absorbed (I should add that you will not be damaged when using the ability nor would it reflect anything back at the target)
    • Dragon Fire Scale - This ability should return to reflecting all projectiles within 4 seconds but the shield ultimate does that now... so I suppose keep it the way it is now.
    Reflective plate is pretty much useless and doesn't really provide any use but with this change it would definitely provide some use (IMO). Dragon fire scale,
    I do wish this would go back to reflecting all projectiles but I doubt it; it could possibly be allowed to reflect projectile ultimates.

    Inhale
    • Deep Breath - is fine
    • Draw Essence - I feel this needs to restore magicka based on the players hit, like it used to but the current way is fine anyway (no spoiler this time).

    Iron skin - is fine (although I do want a change but this would be making it more damage focused).

    Burning Heart - Change healing received so it only effects heals you receive from other sources other than your own (not really a specific change but a change in how healing received works).

    Elder Dragon - Scrap it and replace the health recovery with reduction in dragon knight abilities (5% max) based on having 3 Draconic power abilities on one bar.
    Or maybe, 3% reduction to DK abilities but also 2% more healing done. Would be interesting for some DK healers maybe

    Scaled Armor - Is fine


    EARTHEN HEART

    Magma armor
    • Magma Shell - Increase duration by 2 seconds.
    • Corrosive armor - Increase duration by 2 seconds.
    I really feel a couple seconds would make this ultimate even better.

    Stonefist
    • Obsidian shard - I'd like to change this but have no clue what to put in place of it or make it into a trap ability.
    • Stone Giant - Is fine (no extra details for this one).

    Molten Weapons
    • igneous weapons - Allow this ability to be cast from stealth without breaking stealth. Plus reduce cost by 1,000
    • Molten Armaments - Allow this ability to be cast from stealth without breaking stealth. Plus reduce cost by 1,000.
    I feel that the stealth change would just be a quality of life change but the reduction is definitely needed to sustain the up-time and extra resource cost that comes in june.

    Obsidian shield
    • Igneous shield - Revert changes proposed in the most recent patch and reduce cost by 1,000.
    • Fragmented shield - The damage dealt after shield expires should be increased and reduction of cost dropped by 1,000.
    Overall I feel that 1,000 reduction in the cost for both of these skills are definitely needed especially with the changes coming. Fragmented shield needs to be worth using so increasing the damage provided may make it worth using.
    Absolutely. Or give us 2 seconds of major mending after shield expires to that.

    Petrify and morphs - is fine.

    Ash cloud
    • Cinder storm - There's really no use for the ability so why not revert changes? Make it so when standing in the storm you will receive major evasion. Reduce cost by 1,000
    • Eruption - I believe it's diameter should be increased 2 to 3m. Reduce cost by 1,000
    Yet again the costs for the DK abilities are very expensive. I believe cinderstorm should go back as it was a rather unique ability that was powerful.
    I believe eruption needed to increase the field it's one just to add a difference between the two and that it was rather small to begin with.

    Eternal Mountain - Is fine

    Battle Roar - I feel this passive needs an update. I believe when you use an ultimate you should receive Major Heroism for 5 or 10 seconds (That's if Major heroism gives you 3 per second). I believe 15 or 30 ultimate after using one would aid in recovering resources which is where it all comes down to. I also believe that the current changes for PTS version should also be looked at and reverted.

    Mountain's blessing - Is fine

    Helping Hands - Revert ability to where it was before and do not touch.


    I definitely didn't steal that combat and gameplay pic from Gina
    I did but don't tell anyone.
    . This took sometime (around 1hr n 30 mins) but these are the changes I would desire for the DK class. Some changes a bit drastic but this is with keeping the stand your ground aspect aka the identity in mind; at-least I think I did.

    Edit: Forgot to add this but I hope this is constructive for you @ZOS_RichLambert and @ZOS_GinaBruno ; although it isn't too detailed with numbers and statistics, I felt based on playing the PTS and playing on live as a DK that these changes would be pretty good for the class.
    TL;DR These are my changes for the DK class that was created based on hope that will most likely never come.


    Against Aldmeri Doorminion
  • MaxwellC
    MaxwellC
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    @Durham
    I'm probably that unicorn in PvP because I only wear 5 med 2 heavy and I still bust up meta builds. The only problem I really have is a stam sorc heavy using faslla, that crap is annoying AF. Usually if I time my onslaught right I could nearly execute him after I take away some health.
    I know jules too, she's a good MagDK and I liked her opinions in the thread she posted way back then; the changes proposed for DKs in this PTS is pretty terrible. Nothing can justify a already struggling class when it comes to sustain and burst damage.

    I just can't fall into the meta zone, I prefer to lead rather than follow if that makes any sense.
    不動の Steadfast - Unwavering
    XBL Gamer Tag - Maxwell
    XB1 Maxwell Crystal - NA DC CP 800+ Redguard Stamina DK
    XB1 Max Crystal - NA DC CP 800+ Brenton Magicka DK
    PC Maxwell-Crystal - NA DC - CP 200+ Brenton Magicka DK 「Retired」
    Band Camp statements: To state "But this one time I saw X doing X... so that justifies X" Refers to the Band camp statement.
    Coined by Maxwel
    l
  • Dubhliam
    Dubhliam
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    MaxwellC wrote: »
    @Dorrino
    I forgot the numbers for battle roar but for helping hands I was receiving I believe either 800 or 900 stamina for a 4k igneous shield on PTS

    So let's say that my Magic regen is bare bones 600. Currently on live when I use Igneous shield in my PvP setup I get back around 1750 stamina and will recover that use within 6.6 seconds since the skill on live is 4k. With the changes on PTS which have stamina return based on max level and if your stamina is below the threshold I receive around 900 stamina for a 4k costing skill.
    Do you not see the disparity there especially when stamina sorcerer pays slightly less for something that gives back both health and stamina?

    Basically, you're saying that if ZOS nerfs Dark Deal, you would be okay with the changes?
    >>>Detailed Justice System Concept thread<<<
  • MaxwellC
    MaxwellC
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    @Dubhliam
    Uh no? Did I in anyway state that because I'm sure I never said "Since we DKs are getting a nerf sorcerers dark deal should too".
    What I think should happen is that the current live for Stam DKs helping hands is fine and should not be touched. If they want they can base off the stamina they get back on max resource so If I'm a Mag DK with 40k magicka then you can get back 2k stamina (which is a HUGE BUFF).

    Dark deal really needs to offer what many others have suggested even fengrush. If someone decides to use dark deal and if they are bashed they should not be able to keep spamming it until no end. It should cost the resource up front. I for one don't believe nerfing another class to make it in line with other nerfs is the right way to go about it but I feel the classes that are behind should be brought in line.
    不動の Steadfast - Unwavering
    XBL Gamer Tag - Maxwell
    XB1 Maxwell Crystal - NA DC CP 800+ Redguard Stamina DK
    XB1 Max Crystal - NA DC CP 800+ Brenton Magicka DK
    PC Maxwell-Crystal - NA DC - CP 200+ Brenton Magicka DK 「Retired」
    Band Camp statements: To state "But this one time I saw X doing X... so that justifies X" Refers to the Band camp statement.
    Coined by Maxwel
    l
  • Weps
    Weps
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    Ok guys,
    I think we should restart from this point:
    Short answer is DKs likely won't be seeing a ton of changes before we go live; this class is still quite powerful (as it should be being a tank), even after some of the adjustments we've made to other classes and abilities.

    We should now turn this thread into an official request for a Q&A with Wrobel or whoever can really make us understand what they want to do with the class, because clearly there is a brobdingnagian chasm between what the players want and what are ZoS vision and plans for the class.
    PS4 EU - CP 1000+ - EP Loyal

    My EU Preciouses
    Aemon Dk | Imperial Dragonknight Tank
    Guari Gaburiefu | PvP Stamplar - Soon PvE tank
    Nadija Zenobia | 45k+ PvE Dk - PvP Leaper
    Naga del Serpente | High Elf Magicka Sorc PVE DPS - Soon tb 2nd crafter
    Azor Ahai V | Dunmer Magicka DK for PVP and Pve
    Jabba D'Cat | Khajiit Stamplar
    Gennarino Auditore | 7k Weapon damage Bosmer Stamblade / Ganking experimental build
    Rina Inbasu | Dunmer Magblade, my bomblade
    Zelgadis Greywords | High Elf Magplar
    Nachael Jordan | Redguard Stamsorc DPS
    Orghuz Diul | StamWar DPS
    This-Will-Buff-If | Argonian Warden Trial Off tank
    Amelia Tesla Sallilune | Breton Magden PvP DD / PvE healer
    Sap-My-Shield | PvP Nooblade, now dead PvE Tank
  • Kilandros
    Kilandros
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    Weps wrote: »
    Ok guys,
    I think we should restart from this point:
    Short answer is DKs likely won't be seeing a ton of changes before we go live; this class is still quite powerful (as it should be being a tank), even after some of the adjustments we've made to other classes and abilities.

    We should now turn this thread into an official request for a Q&A with Wrobel or whoever can really make us understand what they want to do with the class, because clearly there is a brobdingnagian chasm between what the players want and what are ZoS vision and plans for the class.

    Agreed. @ZOS_GinaBruno can we make an official request for some kind of Q&A session please?
    Invictus
    Kilandros - Dragonknight / Grand Overlord
    Deimos - Templar / Grand Warlord
    Sias - Sorcerer / Prefect
    Short answer is DKs likely won't be seeing a ton of changes before we go live; this class is still quite powerful (as it should be being a tank), even after some of the adjustments we've made to other classes and abilities.

    DK IS NOT JUST A TANK CLASS. #PLAYTHEWAYYOUWANT
  • MaxwellC
    MaxwellC
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    @Weps
    Where is the thread that comment was posted? I cannot find it, I'd rather not lose my cool until I verify this.
    不動の Steadfast - Unwavering
    XBL Gamer Tag - Maxwell
    XB1 Maxwell Crystal - NA DC CP 800+ Redguard Stamina DK
    XB1 Max Crystal - NA DC CP 800+ Brenton Magicka DK
    PC Maxwell-Crystal - NA DC - CP 200+ Brenton Magicka DK 「Retired」
    Band Camp statements: To state "But this one time I saw X doing X... so that justifies X" Refers to the Band camp statement.
    Coined by Maxwel
    l
  • Kilandros
    Kilandros
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    MaxwellC wrote: »
    @Weps
    Where is the thread that comment was posted? I cannot find it, I'd rather not lose my cool until I verify this.

    Don't shoot the messenger. We finally got a response.
    Invictus
    Kilandros - Dragonknight / Grand Overlord
    Deimos - Templar / Grand Warlord
    Sias - Sorcerer / Prefect
    Short answer is DKs likely won't be seeing a ton of changes before we go live; this class is still quite powerful (as it should be being a tank), even after some of the adjustments we've made to other classes and abilities.

    DK IS NOT JUST A TANK CLASS. #PLAYTHEWAYYOUWANT
  • Arthg
    Arthg
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    MaxwellC wrote: »
    @Weps
    Where is the thread that comment was posted? I cannot find it, I'd rather not lose my cool until I verify this.

    Here
    PC/EU. NoCP PvP. sDK Orc IRL. Flawless tamperor. AR 41+. CP 900+. Pro scrub.


  • MaxwellC
    MaxwellC
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    @Kilandros
    Ah nah I won't shoot the messenger, I just want to make sure my anger would be warranted or not. If anything I'd love to hear from @ZOS_RichLambert and @Wrobel on how they feel an innate support class who's PvP damage abilities (class wise) consist of DoTs that apply no real pressure is deemed 'powerful'.

    People can cite our passives that have been changed incredibly, but this does not solve the main issue which is sustain mainly for mag, and more class specific abilities for stam + lack of an AoE,etc.
    不動の Steadfast - Unwavering
    XBL Gamer Tag - Maxwell
    XB1 Maxwell Crystal - NA DC CP 800+ Redguard Stamina DK
    XB1 Max Crystal - NA DC CP 800+ Brenton Magicka DK
    PC Maxwell-Crystal - NA DC - CP 200+ Brenton Magicka DK 「Retired」
    Band Camp statements: To state "But this one time I saw X doing X... so that justifies X" Refers to the Band camp statement.
    Coined by Maxwel
    l
  • MaxwellC
    MaxwellC
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    @Arthg
    Thanks so much I can see that this class pretty much just needs to be erased from this game. Like seriously wtf, they provided nerf after nerf and after the class was so crippled they buff it slightly. Because this class is a tanking class does not mean we want to STAY IN A TANKING ROLE - FFS.


    Like wow we have added healing received when using a draconic ability and increased block THAT ONLY CALCULATES AFTER MITIGATION TAKES PLACE. Amazing.. so powerful... so much sustain... so much resistance.

    I'm not sure anyone see a passive in the DK line that boosts it's damage overall aside from minor brutality? I don't see ***.

    Last PTS, we asked for an AoE and improve sustain for Mag DK... we got none of that. This PTS some ask for the same, we get nothing but even more nerfs. I think I'm done with this game, Destiny 2 can not come any sooner.
    不動の Steadfast - Unwavering
    XBL Gamer Tag - Maxwell
    XB1 Maxwell Crystal - NA DC CP 800+ Redguard Stamina DK
    XB1 Max Crystal - NA DC CP 800+ Brenton Magicka DK
    PC Maxwell-Crystal - NA DC - CP 200+ Brenton Magicka DK 「Retired」
    Band Camp statements: To state "But this one time I saw X doing X... so that justifies X" Refers to the Band camp statement.
    Coined by Maxwel
    l
  • Arthg
    Arthg
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    MaxwellC wrote: »
    @Arthg
    Thanks so much I can see that this class pretty much just needs to be erased from this game. Like seriously wtf, they provided nerf after nerf and after the class was so crippled they buff it slightly. Because this class is a tanking class does not mean we want to STAY IN A TANKING ROLE - FFS.

    Well thanks for representing our interests, mate - I've been following this thread with great interest :)
    PC/EU. NoCP PvP. sDK Orc IRL. Flawless tamperor. AR 41+. CP 900+. Pro scrub.


  • NBrookus
    NBrookus
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    ✭✭✭
    Agreed. A reddit or something where we can discuss this new bombshell that DKs are only supposed to be tanks.

    If ESO is moving toward classes having role restrictions, that's one thing, and ESO needs to lay it all out on the table which class gets to be which role. But to limit just DKs to a particular role -- and then nerfing their ability to perform that roll -- seems poorly thought out.
    PC NA
    Dunmer Magicka DK, Argonian Magicka Templar, Altmer Magicka NB, Breton Magicka Sorcerer, Orc Stamina Warden
    Breton Magicka Sorcerer, Argonian Magicka Templar, Orc Stamina DK, Bosmer Stamina NB, Nord Stamina Warden, Redguard Stamina Necro
    Dunmer Magicka DK, Argonian Magicka Templar, Altmer Magicka Sorcerer
  • Kilandros
    Kilandros
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    ✭✭✭
    They need to explain why, on one hand, they make changes with the explanation that classes should be able to perform all roles when, on the other hand, they say point blank that DKs are tanks.
    Invictus
    Kilandros - Dragonknight / Grand Overlord
    Deimos - Templar / Grand Warlord
    Sias - Sorcerer / Prefect
    Short answer is DKs likely won't be seeing a ton of changes before we go live; this class is still quite powerful (as it should be being a tank), even after some of the adjustments we've made to other classes and abilities.

    DK IS NOT JUST A TANK CLASS. #PLAYTHEWAYYOUWANT
  • Nelson_Rebel
    Nelson_Rebel
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    Did they really state DK's are now only supposed to be tanks?
  • MaxwellC
    MaxwellC
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    ✭✭
    @Arthg
    I don't represent anyone other than my own and don't take it the wrong way its just that I cannot do that role justice. My opinions some may agree and some may not agree but as long as something gets changed for the better then I can be happy with that. Unfortunately these changes are not good and just further contradicts what they said this game was about (Play how you want).
    不動の Steadfast - Unwavering
    XBL Gamer Tag - Maxwell
    XB1 Maxwell Crystal - NA DC CP 800+ Redguard Stamina DK
    XB1 Max Crystal - NA DC CP 800+ Brenton Magicka DK
    PC Maxwell-Crystal - NA DC - CP 200+ Brenton Magicka DK 「Retired」
    Band Camp statements: To state "But this one time I saw X doing X... so that justifies X" Refers to the Band camp statement.
    Coined by Maxwel
    l
  • Weps
    Weps
    ✭✭✭✭
    Did they really state DK's are now only supposed to be tanks?

    Not really.
    In the quoted post it's stated that a Dk is still considered powerful because it should be a tank.

    However, I'm still trying to get how being tankier with less damaging capabilities makes you powerful.
    More resistant. Tougher to burst down. But powerful? Where is the power coming from? From the fact I can block 10% more damage? Great, that means I will get 4.5k swings out of 5k. JESUS I FEEL LIKE A GOD WALKING THE EARTH
    PS4 EU - CP 1000+ - EP Loyal

    My EU Preciouses
    Aemon Dk | Imperial Dragonknight Tank
    Guari Gaburiefu | PvP Stamplar - Soon PvE tank
    Nadija Zenobia | 45k+ PvE Dk - PvP Leaper
    Naga del Serpente | High Elf Magicka Sorc PVE DPS - Soon tb 2nd crafter
    Azor Ahai V | Dunmer Magicka DK for PVP and Pve
    Jabba D'Cat | Khajiit Stamplar
    Gennarino Auditore | 7k Weapon damage Bosmer Stamblade / Ganking experimental build
    Rina Inbasu | Dunmer Magblade, my bomblade
    Zelgadis Greywords | High Elf Magplar
    Nachael Jordan | Redguard Stamsorc DPS
    Orghuz Diul | StamWar DPS
    This-Will-Buff-If | Argonian Warden Trial Off tank
    Amelia Tesla Sallilune | Breton Magden PvP DD / PvE healer
    Sap-My-Shield | PvP Nooblade, now dead PvE Tank
  • Toraf
    Toraf
    ✭✭✭
    kom81gm0o1k6.png

    (this post will probably be deleted soon, but I regret nothing)

    PC - EU - Pact
    Toraf Lunathi - Grumpy nord dunmer (DK magicka nord dunmer CP750).
    - AR 46.
    - Achiev' 29,585.
  • NBrookus
    NBrookus
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    PC NA
    Dunmer Magicka DK, Argonian Magicka Templar, Altmer Magicka NB, Breton Magicka Sorcerer, Orc Stamina Warden
    Breton Magicka Sorcerer, Argonian Magicka Templar, Orc Stamina DK, Bosmer Stamina NB, Nord Stamina Warden, Redguard Stamina Necro
    Dunmer Magicka DK, Argonian Magicka Templar, Altmer Magicka Sorcerer
  • Dragath
    Dragath
    ✭✭✭✭
    still issues here that have to be addressed, devs.
    lets hope 3.03 fixes some of them.
  • Dubhliam
    Dubhliam
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    .

    Those willing to adapt will survive.

    Special snowflakes will die out.
    >>>Detailed Justice System Concept thread<<<
  • MaxwellC
    MaxwellC
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    @Dubhliam
    No one is crying about sustain in PvE, you can mitigate the impact based on heavy attacking like seriously this argument or response you posted is invalidated. The issue is sustain in the PvP aspect, if you feel you can heavy attack your way to victory on the PTS well good luck lol..
    The sustain changes to the DK skills were and still is not justified, I can live with the changes to CP, armor, and even to my redguard race DK but changing helping hands and battle roar does nothing but further handicaps me in PvP.

    I do not run the HA meta nor will I ever, that's primarily because I want to be an example that following the meta doesn't mean it is the only route to go in terms of PvP. I even forgot to mention major mending changes to igneous shield which is also completely to be frank.. stupid.
    How the hell do you expect someone to get a vigor tick in when a DoT is applied to you, actually about half the time you can get 1 tick but the shield is broken. The best thing is the shield scales off of your bloody health which is weakened even more by battle spirit. It is not an exaggeration that you can light attack the bloody thing and have it break. This affects not just Stam DKs but also Mag DKs who already are suffering sustain issues to begin with.
    Edited by MaxwellC on May 6, 2017 9:26PM
    不動の Steadfast - Unwavering
    XBL Gamer Tag - Maxwell
    XB1 Maxwell Crystal - NA DC CP 800+ Redguard Stamina DK
    XB1 Max Crystal - NA DC CP 800+ Brenton Magicka DK
    PC Maxwell-Crystal - NA DC - CP 200+ Brenton Magicka DK 「Retired」
    Band Camp statements: To state "But this one time I saw X doing X... so that justifies X" Refers to the Band camp statement.
    Coined by Maxwel
    l
  • Durham
    Durham
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Dubhliam wrote: »
    .

    Those willing to adapt will survive.

    Special snowflakes will die out.

    . tried this last night in PVP ... PVP is about burst not sustain that major difference between the two.. anyone that is decent will not stand in one place for 3 to 5 secs to let you dot them up... I dueled a stam sorc last night with the heavy attack build duel wield I was killed every time ... I went back to burst and I was able to win ... by the way most of us have been heavy attacking for a while in PVP lol but the duel wield option is still lacking...
    PVP DEADWAIT
    PVE Eternal Destiny
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