@Dorrino
No, there's no exactly you completely ignored what I stated before which was the use of multiple abilities before executing with onslaught. No one simply just goes in and ulti slams an opponent and expects he/she to die immediately if that's your thinking then I'm not sure what to say.
I didn't ignore anything. You do these attacks with any ultimate of your choice, thus this information is irrelevant to the comparison at hand.Off balanced target as I stated I would knock back an opponent before using my ultimate or even using fossilize.
Knock-backs don't apply off-balanced (unless it's a hidded proc in this cc category, then i'd like to have a source for that).
Fossilize will invalidate the whole burst chain with any ultimate, since you just granted free 7 sec of cc immunity for the target to block/dodge/shield any subsequent damage.Not sure if DS gets dodged, leap + execute still works lol
If the target dodges ds the follow-up leap WILL hit it, since it will be in the middle of the dodge. That's the main allure of db/leap.You're trying to push your narrative while ignoring that the same thing applies to any other close range ultimate as you stated at close range it's hard to dodge.
I'm sorry, but i'm not pushing anything here. I'm explaining why db/leap is better and much wider used than onslaught. Please, try to keep this discussion civil.Leap may apply the damage regardless but yet again it still is mitigated by armor and skills in play while onslaught will hit through it. Even if I miss, I miss and keep fighting; the lack of an ultimate on hand does not handicap me entirely.
This is correct.Onslaught costs more yet it provides mitigation if it hits the target and if it kills the target it provides you with another ultimate use immediately which aids the passive battle roar.
This is correct as well.
And never the less overall effectiveness of onslaught is noticeably lower than db/leap. Onslaught is such a skill that looks awesome and op on paper, but performs much worse than that.
As a stamblade main, it's was quite obvious to me that onslaught would be a subpar skill from the start, because i know how hard it is to land an incap:) And onslaught has twice the costs, thus you waste twice as much ult when it misses.Since you're most likely actively playing DK as I'm on a hiatus from the game until they make improvements to cyrodiil. Make a video and show me (using the exact same combo you would use on take flight) how its better. I have used take flight in the past and hand fun with it when it came to leaping into keeps (when they were heavily guarded) killing a few then escaping, or when I was emperor 1 hitting players before they nerf'd emperor.
I don't play dks. My experience comes from the receiving end. What i described is what stamDk meta is right now.
You can watch for instance Kodi's streams on twitch if you're looking for quality multiclass pvp content (including stamdk).
edit: actually watch this from 1 hour mark.
If THIS is not an example of current state of stamdk pvp meta, i don't know what is:)
Band Camp statements: To state "But this one time I saw X doing X... so that justifies X" Refers to the Band camp statement.
Coined by Maxwell
You watch Kodie.... so your basing viewpoints off streaming lol.. its called editing man ... and what he is running is old news man his stam DK video is a bit dated. I believe he is running Fury in his last video... Also most of the stam dk videos that you see out there are older with the vitality potions which is what made shield players OP.....
Right now I have no issue with most DK out there most are fairly easy to take down honestly ... On test Stam DK's are like buffed up mud crabs ...
@Dorrino
I watched a bit of it and he uses take flight as a tactic which is effective when he's 1vXing a grouped a target which is only possible because he's rocking HA armor meta. He's a good DK since he knows how to utilize his skills correctly I won't dis that but I can't tell what HA armor he's using I know he's using blood spawn for extra mitigation but he's either using fasalla or something else can't tell.
I do not play meta DK I stay away from proc sets and Heavy armor.
You watch Kodie.... so your basing viewpoints off streaming lol.. its called editing man ... and what he is running is old news man his stam DK video is a bit dated. I believe he is running Fury in his last video... Also most of the stam dk videos that you see out there are older with the vitality potions which is what made shield players OP.....
It's a link to his 3-days old stream:) Live.
I'd love to link anybody else, but i know nobody with a similar skill level playing stamdk who streams. Jules, maybe?Right now I have no issue with most DK out there most are fairly easy to take down honestly ... On test Stam DK's are like buffed up mud crabs ...
Most mediocre players are really easy to kill:) That goes without words.@Dorrino
I watched a bit of it and he uses take flight as a tactic which is effective when he's 1vXing a grouped a target which is only possible because he's rocking HA armor meta. He's a good DK since he knows how to utilize his skills correctly I won't dis that but I can't tell what HA armor he's using I know he's using blood spawn for extra mitigation but he's either using fasalla or something else can't tell.
Fury, obviously. And some other 3-set for stats.I do not play meta DK I stay away from proc sets and Heavy armor.
Then i'm terribly sorry, but i don't see how can we discuss stamDK state in pvp. We can't just discard its strongest points and say that 'all the rest is kinda bad':)
So superficially it seems like magdk should have better stam sustain, while magplar should have better mag sustain (not taking into account battle roar for mag returns).
Is this correct?
I would like this a lot, only thing I would change is way this defile would work. Initial defile would be lower, and the longer an enemy stands inside the Standard's AOE range, defile would grow stronger. For example, initial would be 10% defile, each tick would bring 5-10% more, and after 3 ticks that amount of defile would persist for 3 seconds even if you left AOE or standard expired.First I will state that yes, I have played the beta both on a PC template (since my PC character is a Mag DK) and on my mates DK when he came over (since he has a lot of gear that I can mess with). I made a thread talking about my disdain for the terrible changes to the Stam DK variant but also DK as a whole, with the newest patch.
Obviously this isn't the final phase as Morrowind comes out in June but I feel that I need to strongly voice my opinions with these changes, especially since this is a class that I loved to play when it was all about standing my ground and the more opponents the bigger threat I become. Unfortunately the DK class has been gutted from what it used to be with some changes argubly fair while others completely unjust.
So now I will start with what I desire for the DK class which more than likely will never happen as the game changes are around the corner. I should mention I've more than certain I've made threads like this a while ago.
ARDENT FLAME
DragonKnight
- Standard of Might - I believe this should go back to 200 ultimate and provide the original 50% defile as this is an ultimate and it needs to be unique
- Shifting Standard - Reduce the ultimate to 150 and also have the 50% defile apply.
The reasoning behind the changes as it was practically stated was because the current gameplay there is nothing OP about having standard of might as a 200 costing ultimate in the PvP crowd nor is it OP in PvE. I also feel the unique defile needs to return because like I said this is an ultimate, why should an ultimate have the same debuffs a regular skill has when it's something you save up to use and cannot use consistently within a 5 second time frame.
Would be interesting to see the Molten Whip change to penetration, but not sure if we need this change in PvE enviroment, since most groups that knows what to do bring boss resistances to zero, anyways. Thus, you would actually underperform compared to what we do now. On the other hand, both morphs of the whip could have an interesting, stackable mechanic, that would make each consecutive whip penetrating 250 or so more spell resistance off target, capped at 1-1.5k penetration. This would help mDK in both PvE and PvP, in small scale or when solo.
Lava Whip
- Molten Whip - I feel instead of gaining spell damage (per tool-tip description) you should get increased spell penetration
- Flame Lash - The 5% increase for this PTS patch should be reverted, it already preforms good enough on live.
I feel that increased spell penetration would overall be better instead of increased spell damage in regards to molten whip. Lava whip as stated preforms well and with the current soft cc/hard cc spam it preforms just fine in PvP.
I don't agree about embers, I think it's heal is the main thing that make you going in tight situations. Maybe it is strong, but also since everything will cost much more, making this only a HoT would hurt mDK a lot.
Searing Strike
- Venomous Claw - It's fine although I still want a blue claw animation but regardless this preforms fine.
- Burning Embers - Change the heal from instant to a Heal over time when reapplying for said heal.
Venomous claw preforms fine in PvE so no changes needed; in PvP it's dismal but we'll come back to that later. Burning embers changes is because we have a consistent heal from our class now (Coagulated blood). Some may voice their opposition but I feel it's fair especially if the HoT was within 5-10 seconds max.
I think these should be undogeable if you hit enemies with it. I don't think range is too bad, if you make it undogeable.
Fiery Breath
- Noxious Breath - Remove or reduce the animation when using it and look into the reliability for it's debuff/actually hitting the target. I also suggest increasing the range by 2m and possibly increasing the cones radius.
- Engulfing Flames - Same as noxious breath.
The reliability of both of these skills is annoying since sometimes mobs or players will somehow dodge the ability in front of you or noxious breath will not apply it's debuff. I also fee the range is a tad short; I do wish the stamina version was changed to blue flames.
Interesting, maybe could be made to inflict minor breach if you use claw/embers 2 seconds after you used chains on same target. Would add a bit of combo into sometimes boring DK rotations.
Fiery Grip
- Empowering Chains - Take away expedition and replace it with minor breech.
- Unrelenting Change - Take away major expedition and replace it with minor maim reduce cost by 1500 Magicka.
I feel expedition on a DK who is about standing your ground is pretty contradicting. Minor breech would aid dps in PvP while minor maim would prioritize PvE although it could/can be deemed useless.
I disagree about Cauterize. It should be changed to deal 1-2-3-2-1 number of healing flames each tick, and if friendly target healed was under 50% you should get 3 seconds of major mending.
Inferno
- Flames Of Oblivion - Change this ability to an AoE while keeping it scaling to max damage stat.
- Cauterize - Make it what current flames of oblivion is on live but also add a DoT when it hits the target. The DoT applied can or should be around 20-30% of your tool-tip damage.
Flames of Oblivion AoE would benefit Stam DKs who do not have a really good class specific AoE, in the past this was an AoE and I feel it's time for it to become one again. Cauterize, this ability I do not feel any DK healer uses (coming from a DK healer), I've never seen a DK use this but changing it to a single target damage ability with an added DoT would be something I'd feel most people would like.
Warmth could be transformed into pseudo execute, something like "melting", making targets under multiple dots having 5% chance to proc 2x dot multiplier for 5 seconds every 20 seconds or so, while keeping the slow chance we have now.
Combustion - Is fine
Warmth - Remove the passive and replace it with something like...
- Ardent Catalyst - When dealing damage with Ardent flame abilities, have a 2% and 5% chance of causing a(n) explosion dealing X damage based on the amount of ardent flame skills on your bar (could be based on the damage dealt by ardent flame abilities but I feel that is a bit powerful.
I feel this adds to the "stand your ground" aspect that DKs were designed to have. Ardent flame abilities are close ranged abilities thus meaning you need to be in range (right next to them) for it to work. This also makes ardent flame abilities especially DoTs more useful in PvP for Stam DK.
Not sure how good would transfer to stamina feel for choking talons... As tank, you need stamina to block, burning 3.5k stamina on this would be a luxury you won't have. And as DD, you are hit into the tusks by stamina cost increase, vigor cost increase, etc. If mDK, why on Nirn would you use stamina morph wjhen your pool is either way one cast away from being unable to CC break.
World in Ruin - Is fine
DRACONIC POWER
Dragon Leap - Is fine where it's at, nothing needed as it preforms well for both morphs.
Spiked Armor
- Hardened armor - Increase the duration of the shield you get and maybe bump it to 20%. The duration should be 6 seconds.
- Spiked armor - Is fine
Honestly this was difficult because minor maim would've worked but then that would be redundant because of chains. I thought minor protection but then that could just be OP so I went with the duration increase and shield size increase although I feel 30% would be better. Spiked armor does fine as it is now and it much more useful to use in comparison to hardened armor IMO (as it is currently on live).
Choking Talons
- Burning Talons -Increase the DoT damage.
- Choking Talons - Make this ability utilize your highest resource or just make it stamina based.
I feel the DoT increase would be welcomed and fair especially with the cost reduction being removed and our skills being incredibly costly. Choking talons needs to utilize your highest resource as this is extremely costly. I do not want a cost reduction as this promotes soft cc spam which is annoying.
Or maybe, 3% reduction to DK abilities but also 2% more healing done. Would be interesting for some DK healers maybe
Dragon's blood
- Green Dragon's blood - Have it restore a fix amount of stamina over time and reduce the cost of the ability by 1,000. (Have the stamina restored be based off of your max stamina).
- Coagulated Blood - Reduce cost by 1,000.
I feel that Green dragon's blood is completely useless as stam recovery isn't exactly helpful especially when it's a byproduct of the same old terrible heal.
The stamina on return ca be a problem with permablocking builds but that just needs adjustments to certain passives and with the sustain nerf incoming it shouldn't be a problem. Coag and well dragon's blood in general needs a cost reduction as it's extremely expensive.
Reflective Scales
- Reflective plate - Change name to Absorption plate and have it restore a fix amount of stamina or magicka (depending on the targets attack) e.g. restoring 300 stamina for each poison injection absorbed (I should add that you will not be damaged when using the ability nor would it reflect anything back at the target)
- Dragon Fire Scale - This ability should return to reflecting all projectiles within 4 seconds but the shield ultimate does that now... so I suppose keep it the way it is now.
Reflective plate is pretty much useless and doesn't really provide any use but with this change it would definitely provide some use (IMO). Dragon fire scale,
I do wish this would go back to reflecting all projectiles but I doubt it; it could possibly be allowed to reflect projectile ultimates.
Inhale
- Deep Breath - is fine
- Draw Essence - I feel this needs to restore magicka based on the players hit, like it used to but the current way is fine anyway (no spoiler this time).
Iron skin - is fine (although I do want a change but this would be making it more damage focused).
Burning Heart - Change healing received so it only effects heals you receive from other sources other than your own (not really a specific change but a change in how healing received works).
Elder Dragon - Scrap it and replace the health recovery with reduction in dragon knight abilities (5% max) based on having 3 Draconic power abilities on one bar.
Absolutely. Or give us 2 seconds of major mending after shield expires to that.
Scaled Armor - Is fine
EARTHEN HEART
Magma armor
- Magma Shell - Increase duration by 2 seconds.
- Corrosive armor - Increase duration by 2 seconds.
I really feel a couple seconds would make this ultimate even better.
Stonefist
- Obsidian shard - I'd like to change this but have no clue what to put in place of it or make it into a trap ability.
- Stone Giant - Is fine (no extra details for this one).
Molten Weapons
- igneous weapons - Allow this ability to be cast from stealth without breaking stealth. Plus reduce cost by 1,000
- Molten Armaments - Allow this ability to be cast from stealth without breaking stealth. Plus reduce cost by 1,000.
I feel that the stealth change would just be a quality of life change but the reduction is definitely needed to sustain the up-time and extra resource cost that comes in june.
Obsidian shield
- Igneous shield - Revert changes proposed in the most recent patch and reduce cost by 1,000.
- Fragmented shield - The damage dealt after shield expires should be increased and reduction of cost dropped by 1,000.
Overall I feel that 1,000 reduction in the cost for both of these skills are definitely needed especially with the changes coming. Fragmented shield needs to be worth using so increasing the damage provided may make it worth using.
Petrify and morphs - is fine.
Ash cloud
- Cinder storm - There's really no use for the ability so why not revert changes? Make it so when standing in the storm you will receive major evasion. Reduce cost by 1,000
- Eruption - I believe it's diameter should be increased 2 to 3m. Reduce cost by 1,000
Yet again the costs for the DK abilities are very expensive. I believe cinderstorm should go back as it was a rather unique ability that was powerful.
I believe eruption needed to increase the field it's one just to add a difference between the two and that it was rather small to begin with.
Eternal Mountain - Is fine
Battle Roar - I feel this passive needs an update. I believe when you use an ultimate you should receive Major Heroism for 5 or 10 seconds (That's if Major heroism gives you 3 per second). I believe 15 or 30 ultimate after using one would aid in recovering resources which is where it all comes down to. I also believe that the current changes for PTS version should also be looked at and reverted.
Mountain's blessing - Is fine
Helping Hands - Revert ability to where it was before and do not touch.
I definitely didn't steal that combat and gameplay pic from GinaI did but don't tell anyone.. This took sometime (around 1hr n 30 mins) but these are the changes I would desire for the DK class. Some changes a bit drastic but this is with keeping the stand your ground aspect aka the identity in mind; at-least I think I did.
Edit: Forgot to add this but I hope this is constructive for you @ZOS_RichLambert and @ZOS_GinaBruno ; although it isn't too detailed with numbers and statistics, I felt based on playing the PTS and playing on live as a DK that these changes would be pretty good for the class.
TL;DR These are my changes for the DK class that was created based on hope that will most likely never come.
Band Camp statements: To state "But this one time I saw X doing X... so that justifies X" Refers to the Band camp statement.
Coined by Maxwell
@Dorrino
I forgot the numbers for battle roar but for helping hands I was receiving I believe either 800 or 900 stamina for a 4k igneous shield on PTS
So let's say that my Magic regen is bare bones 600. Currently on live when I use Igneous shield in my PvP setup I get back around 1750 stamina and will recover that use within 6.6 seconds since the skill on live is 4k. With the changes on PTS which have stamina return based on max level and if your stamina is below the threshold I receive around 900 stamina for a 4k costing skill.
Do you not see the disparity there especially when stamina sorcerer pays slightly less for something that gives back both health and stamina?
Band Camp statements: To state "But this one time I saw X doing X... so that justifies X" Refers to the Band camp statement.
Coined by Maxwell
ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Short answer is DKs likely won't be seeing a ton of changes before we go live; this class is still quite powerful (as it should be being a tank), even after some of the adjustments we've made to other classes and abilities.
Ok guys,
I think we should restart from this point:ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Short answer is DKs likely won't be seeing a ton of changes before we go live; this class is still quite powerful (as it should be being a tank), even after some of the adjustments we've made to other classes and abilities.
We should now turn this thread into an official request for a Q&A with Wrobel or whoever can really make us understand what they want to do with the class, because clearly there is a brobdingnagian chasm between what the players want and what are ZoS vision and plans for the class.
ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Short answer is DKs likely won't be seeing a ton of changes before we go live; this class is still quite powerful (as it should be being a tank), even after some of the adjustments we've made to other classes and abilities.
Band Camp statements: To state "But this one time I saw X doing X... so that justifies X" Refers to the Band camp statement.
Coined by Maxwell
@Weps
Where is the thread that comment was posted? I cannot find it, I'd rather not lose my cool until I verify this.
ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Short answer is DKs likely won't be seeing a ton of changes before we go live; this class is still quite powerful (as it should be being a tank), even after some of the adjustments we've made to other classes and abilities.
Band Camp statements: To state "But this one time I saw X doing X... so that justifies X" Refers to the Band camp statement.
Coined by Maxwell
Band Camp statements: To state "But this one time I saw X doing X... so that justifies X" Refers to the Band camp statement.
Coined by Maxwell
@Arthg
Thanks so much I can see that this class pretty much just needs to be erased from this game. Like seriously wtf, they provided nerf after nerf and after the class was so crippled they buff it slightly. Because this class is a tanking class does not mean we want to STAY IN A TANKING ROLE - FFS.
ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Short answer is DKs likely won't be seeing a ton of changes before we go live; this class is still quite powerful (as it should be being a tank), even after some of the adjustments we've made to other classes and abilities.
Band Camp statements: To state "But this one time I saw X doing X... so that justifies X" Refers to the Band camp statement.
Coined by Maxwell
Nelson_Rebel wrote: »Did they really state DK's are now only supposed to be tanks?
Band Camp statements: To state "But this one time I saw X doing X... so that justifies X" Refers to the Band camp statement.
Coined by Maxwell
.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSGAqjC4Lbw
Those willing to adapt will survive.
Special snowflakes will die out.