Well despite very constructive threads by myself, @MaxwellC, and others we weren't even mentioned in the patch notes once.

DK can't take these hits and still be a unique or viable class compared to the other options. I understand it was over performing in CP campaigns but this guts the class for CP and decimates it for no-cp where stam sorc will still be able to run around in pure damage heavy sets relying solely on dark deal. What. The. Hell.

How did nothing we said get any consideration?

Dorrino wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

This is mostly incorrect. mDKs are not even close to StamDKs in terms of sustain on Live. mDK has by far the worst sustain of any spec right now.

While i respect your opinion, Kilandros, i'm really curious to hear a justification for that. AFAIK mDks are the only dps spec in pvp that blockcast their damage on regular basis. I assume if they can allow themselves that they have unique ways to sustain their resources (stamina in this case). In any case most complaints about DKs sustain don't include a numerical analysis, thus it's really hard to figure out how justified they are.

I'm urging the OP to actually perform that analysis for both ZOS and us, observers, to understand that there's indeed a unique problem with DKs sustain on PTS.

MaxwellC wrote: »

@Dorrino
On live sustain is also a problem which is why many people asked for a blanket reduction in costs for DKs. You can sustain on live in some situations but not as well as any other class because of the higher costs in abilities.

I understand that *some* DK players claim that. What i haven't seen - is a real-world analysis of that. Sometime like 'i'm having the same gear with same cp allocation as a mag sorc and i run out of magica 20% faster while doing the same or similar rotation'. If i missed that analysis being posted on the forums already please direct me to that thread. Thank you.

MaxwellC wrote: »

Igneous shield costs nearly 4.5k without reductions into magicka.

Yet stamDK are capable of using igneous shield each 6 sec to compliment vigor on live, without additional mag regen on their gear and food. So it feels like (feels like:p) that they somehow manage these high costs with DK passives only.

MaxwellC wrote: »

Magicka DKs cannot sustain their rotation in PvE when it comes to utilizing their class specific skills which is why a blanket reduction is needed.

As i said above i'd love to read an analysis of that.

MaxwellC wrote: »

Regarding this power creep you've stated. Stam DK is arguably the weakest class on live PvP wise.

Hm:) There's an opinion shared by some portion of PVP populace that this is the other way around. That stamDK are one of the strongest pvp specs on live (on par with mag sorcs) and magdks after the last update are really close to them.

MaxwellC wrote: »

There is no burst, and can only use DoTs that do not have a lot of immediate damage or can be healed, shield stacked, and purged.

On a pvp stamDK on live?:)

MaxwellC wrote: »

You've stated that standard of might would cause a power creep well first off all in PvP standard of might isn't exactly useful unless you are protecting an area. Shifting standard could be moved but again the damage this ultimate does, is not something so spectacular that it could cause imbalance. It is not like you cannot get out of the standard as well, you can root but that can be broken and the player can apply a root as well then escape the area.

Yep, but the same argument can be applied literally to any ultimate in the game:) Say, incap is single target, can be dodged and its debuff is just 6 sec and can be purged, so let's make it 50% heals reduction:)

We all know how to counterplay against the standard, thus justifying THIS buff to it has to include more than mere 'well you can do something against it'.

Btw Befoul (CP healing reduction star) now caps at 55%, so this proposed 50% can be increased to 75% just by taking that passive. And since the standard's debuff can't be effectively purged we'd have an non-brainer way to achieve 100% area heal reduction using it.

MaxwellC wrote: »

Regarding battle roar, Again this Class was about standing your ground. We could only do that when we would take more damage from huge fights thus giving us more ultimate (Dynamic ultimate regeneration).

This assumes that none of the balance changes since removal of dynamic ults regen never changed this paradigm:) So it's like current state of DKs REQUIRES having dynamic ult regen, which as a concept requires some really strong justification.

MaxwellC wrote: »

Since we lost that ability which was the sole reason why battle roar was made, we lost a huge chunk of our sustain. The suggestion is to get close to those days again but not go back to it completely because the nerf as I stated in my first post is arguably justifiable.

I'd argue that battle roar is just a unique way to achieve a desired level of resource sustain, by coupling it to ult regen. This approach has drawbacks (sometimes you need to cast ult just for the resources), and benefits (by altering ult regen you can buff your sustain). I don't see how would it require to have dynamic ults regen. Of all things dynamic ult regen would make DKs highly imbalanced, since they'd effectively have infinite sustain in group fights.

I can't really provide a numerical analysis I can only compare it to my experiences with other classes. mDK is constantly resource starved even when built for sustain. Compared to my MagSorc or Magplar, I have much more breathing room and can easily build for more damage.

Kilandros wrote: »

I can't really provide a numerical analysis I can only compare it to my experiences with other classes. mDK is constantly resource starved even when built for sustain. Compared to my MagSorc or Magplar, I have much more breathing room and can easily build for more damage.

Then let's test for it! On a stamblade on pts i experienced huge problems with sustain until i went all regen with a couple of cost reduce glyphs. Now it's surprisingly fine on sustain in pvp.

I trust you that magDks experience issues, i think our goal, as pts players is to perform the necessary tests and and provide ZOS with actual data to work with. 'It feels like' has almost zero credibility and baseline info to work with for devs.

NBrookus wrote: »

"Unique" ways are tri-stat enchants and tri food and often speccing for extra stam regen and the cost of damage output and a lower magicka pool. How many other magicka classes run 17k stamina in PvP?

But none of these help with sustain while permablocking. Higher pools only give longer time to run out of resources and any class can use this strategy if they need to permablock. There's some unique properties of magDKs that allow them to actually perform that permablock pvp playstyle.

NBrookus wrote: »

Battleroar and Helping Hands are part of this package (which are getting nerfed into oblivion) but remember we have no class cost reduction or sustain skills or passives, and no active skill that returns magicka. If anything, DK sustain should be natively better since we have no mechanism to disengage from combat and have to become vamps to get a basic mobility skill to reposition.

Yes, but can we support all these claims with exact numbers? We know DK passives are getting nerfed, so are other classes passive and active skills (besides sorc's:P). So we cannot say that DKs fall into a uniquely bad spot because their sustain passives got nerfed. For an outside observer it looks like they got nerfed along with all (sorcs) other classes.

NBrookus wrote: »

As for doing an analysis, I started one comparing Warden/Templar/DK magicka cost per damage output and no one was interested so I stopped.

I am intereseted:) But keep in mind you cannot just compare class skills by this criterion and call it 'state of dks'. You need to simulate a full fight of both specs and then try to figure out sources of worse sutain for DKs specifically (if you find that to be the case).

Right now my Stam sorc will eat my DK alive with rapid strikes...

Dorrino wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

I can't really provide a numerical analysis I can only compare it to my experiences with other classes. mDK is constantly resource starved even when built for sustain. Compared to my MagSorc or Magplar, I have much more breathing room and can easily build for more damage.

Then let's test for it! On a stamblade on pts i experienced huge problems with sustain until i went all regen with a couple of cost reduce glyphs. Now it's surprisingly fine on sustain in pvp.

I trust you that magDks experience issues, i think our goal, as pts players is to perform the necessary tests and and provide ZOS with actual data to work with. 'It feels like' has almost zero credibility and baseline info to work with for devs.

NBrookus wrote: »

"Unique" ways are tri-stat enchants and tri food and often speccing for extra stam regen and the cost of damage output and a lower magicka pool. How many other magicka classes run 17k stamina in PvP?

But none of these help with sustain while permablocking. Higher pools only give longer time to run out of resources and any class can use this strategy if they need to permablock. There's some unique properties of magDKs that allow them to actually perform that permablock pvp playstyle.

NBrookus wrote: »

Battleroar and Helping Hands are part of this package (which are getting nerfed into oblivion) but remember we have no class cost reduction or sustain skills or passives, and no active skill that returns magicka. If anything, DK sustain should be natively better since we have no mechanism to disengage from combat and have to become vamps to get a basic mobility skill to reposition.

Yes, but can we support all these claims with exact numbers? We know DK passives are getting nerfed, so are other classes passive and active skills (besides sorc's:P). So we cannot say that DKs fall into a uniquely bad spot because their sustain passives got nerfed. For an outside observer it looks like they got nerfed along with all (sorcs) other classes.

NBrookus wrote: »

As for doing an analysis, I started one comparing Warden/Templar/DK magicka cost per damage output and no one was interested so I stopped.

I am intereseted:) But keep in mind you cannot just compare class skills by this criterion and call it 'state of dks'. You need to simulate a full fight of both specs and then try to figure out sources of worse sutain for DKs specifically (if you find that to be the case).

Ok i agree with some of your stuff .... but a 60% nerf to helping hands and basically removal of major mending.... thats very extreme
Battle Roar nerf again to extreme ....

MaxwellC wrote: »

@Dorrino
Regarding the Stam DK being the weakest in terms of skill wise yeah it is the weakest unless you consider DoTs being useful in PvP which the only form of DoTs that are useful are execute DoTs e.g. Poison injection. People state that Stam DK is the strongest but when asked about why it's the strongest you are mostly if not always given the following "They use Heavy armor meta" "They synergize well with heavy armor", etc. This claim evolved from wrecking blow pre nerf being what synergized best and before that perma-blocking meta. Currently it's the heavy armor and proc sets not synergize with Stam DK.. see the pattern here?

Stam DK is only good because of literally 2 skills and 2 passives from a PvP stand point and 1 ultimate. (Fossilize, Igneous shield, battle roar, helping hands, and corrosive armor).

I can answer that. StamDKs on LIVE are strong because:

1. Dragon Leap is a hard hitting ultimate that goes through dodge and is hard to block in melee range.
2. Igneous shield with major mending along with Burning Heart passive provides huge heals (3.5k-4k vigor crits) and another vigor crit tick equivalent of a shield.
3. Iron Skin + Scaled Armor passive contribute to higher mitigation.
4. Battle Roar + Helping Hands + Mountain's Blessing passives lead to a good unmitigated sustain (can't prevent resources return from it, unlike resources regen, stopping while blocking).

Combinations of all 4 above lead to very high damage mitigation, very high class sustain and very high burst damage.

MaxwellC wrote: »

Touching on battle roar, again no the original design was for it to be the main sustain of the class. Battle roar was designed around the dynamic ultimate regeneration system which is something far removed from the game currently.

Here we need a justification that Battle Roar is not designed around the lack of dynamic ultimate regen. As far is i know, battle roar alone made DKs highly OP while dynamic ults were a thing.

Since now on live Battle Roar + Helping Hands + Mountain's Blessing is more than enough to sustain a stamDK in heavy without additional regen, we have to conclude it's balanced around no dynamic ult regen.

MaxwellC wrote: »

You would have to stand your ground i.e. sustain the damage from multiple targets which allowed you to unleash your ultimate faster than others.

Yep, but if the class was designed to 'sustain the damage from multiple targets' why does it have to be additionally rewarded for that from dynamic ult regen?:)

MaxwellC wrote: »

Stam DKs strength lies in two passives and 2 skills + 1 ultimate (because I love corrosive armor).

I calculated 6 important passives for stam DK, 2 skills (igneous and Spiked Armor) and 1 ult (and it's not corrosive armor:)). Good stamdk pvp builds on live don't use Corrosive armor and Fossilize:) I even added Fossilize to mag spec detection in my pvpalerts.

Kilandros wrote: »

@Dorrino I would love you forever if you could put together a test examining sustain, especially mDK

I'll see what i can do. Keep in mind i never played DKs of any sorts, thus my personal tests might not be too trustworthy.

NBrookus wrote: »

Yes, exactly. I could easily permablock on my templars if I spec'd for it. The only differences are a DK passive that blocks more damage (which does not enable permablocking, just makes it more effective) and the Helping Hands passive, for which you can exchange about 4k magicka for under 1k stam now. Which is a terrible trade compared to something like Dark Deal.

We all know Dark Deal is the best sustain skill in the game:) The question we have is if DKs can sustain at the same (bad) levels as other classes (besides sorcs) on the current PTS? And we need to test for it.

NBrookus wrote: »

DKs don't permablock because they want to, but rather because blocking is to DKs what shields are to sorcs or dodge roll is to stam classes. A stamblade in medium that can't dodge roll is a dead stamblade, as you well know.

Have we mentioned doubling block costs? What if we doubled the cost of Hardened Ward and dodge rolls?

Dodge rolls are already countered by a skeever's sneeze:)

Hardened Ward is balanced because sorcs though /s

NBrookus wrote: »

I took both templars and sorcs into battlegrounds. The only concession I made to the changes was I put my no-CP setup on my templars, and for my sorc I switched to Witchmothers. My templar did run out of magicka sometimes -- I'm not spec'd as a healer so trying to BoL spam my allies was a real drain. My sorc never ran out of magicka.

I tried taking my mDK no CP build into battlegrounds. Can't burst, can't sustain, still not tanky enough not to die to stamplar PotL + 3 proc sets. Switched to Witchmothers and did a little better, but the difference from live is not only dramatic, but utterly imbalanced with the sustain changes I felt on other classes.

It currently feels that it's not that magDKs are so much worse, it's that mag sorcs and mag templars are better. If we take sorcs out of the equation for now (for obvious reasons) than we need to compare magplars with magDKs. The question is, how magplars sustain their stam now? I understand that magsteal gives them a lot of mag sustain, but what about stam?

NBrookus wrote: »

I don't know how you would go about setting up a test that would accurately and repeatedly simulate every day open world game play, but if you have ideas I'm happy to help.

Since we indeed can't properly replicate pvp conditions for consistent tests we need to do simple dps rotations with the same gear and compare the sustain. Pvp shouldn't deviate much from this assessment, unless we outline why it should.

NBrookus wrote: »

This was the week ZOS wanted new characters, so I started with early class skills and how they stacked up, and added passives. TL;DR: Warden has all the toys except their group armor buff is more expensive. Dropped due to lack of interest -- and I am quite sure ZOS has all this data anyway. But here was what I started:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/336988/magicka-warden-versus-dragonknight-versus-templar

Comparing class skills will not show a large picture at all. That's the main problem with these types of comparisons. A live engagement (both pvp and pve) includes dozens of additional factors that might drastically change the outcome. That's why skill-by-skill comparison is worse than useless - it's misleading. As if it is assumed that both classes are going to spam that exact skill each second:)

Dorrino wrote: »

MaxwellC wrote: »

@Dorrino
Regarding the Stam DK being the weakest in terms of skill wise yeah it is the weakest unless you consider DoTs being useful in PvP which the only form of DoTs that are useful are execute DoTs e.g. Poison injection. People state that Stam DK is the strongest but when asked about why it's the strongest you are mostly if not always given the following "They use Heavy armor meta" "They synergize well with heavy armor", etc. This claim evolved from wrecking blow pre nerf being what synergized best and before that perma-blocking meta. Currently it's the heavy armor and proc sets not synergize with Stam DK.. see the pattern here?

Stam DK is only good because of literally 2 skills and 2 passives from a PvP stand point and 1 ultimate. (Fossilize, Igneous shield, battle roar, helping hands, and corrosive armor).

I can answer that. StamDKs on LIVE are strong because:

1. Dragon Leap is a hard hitting ultimate that goes through dodge and is hard to block in melee range.
2. Igneous shield with major mending along with Burning Heart passive provides huge heals (3.5k-4k vigor crits) and another vigor crit tick equivalent of a shield.
3. Iron Skin + Scaled Armor passive contribute to higher mitigation.
4. Battle Roar + Helping Hands + Mountain's Blessing passives lead to a good unmitigated sustain (can't prevent resources return from it, unlike resources regen, stopping while blocking).

Combinations of all 4 above lead to very high damage mitigation, very high class sustain and very high burst damage.

1. Nobody uses leap most people use Dawnbreaker since it has a higher total damage.

3. Every single stam class has access to resistance boosting abilities. Sorcs even act as free DOT's with a broken implosion passive so compare that to 12% healing at your own will.

Therefore that leaves DK's special because of points 2, and 4; both which were destroyed for the upcoming patch. What does DK have now?

@Dorrino
Ok no first of all let me correct you. Stam DKs utilize Fossilize like for you to tell me they don't is incredible and that makes me question your PvP time as or with a Stam DK. You even say good Stam DK builds do not use Corrosive armor? I can't... Corrosive armor helps you sustain the damage while allowing you to go more offensive or even get away from sticky situations which as a solo player only, I frequent those situations.

Spiked armor isn't need in PvP and what 6 class specific passives make Stam DK the best? There are only two so far that greatly make the Stam DK powerful the other two aren't as good but pretty handy such as mountains blessing and the draconic healing received passive/.

Dynamic ulti regen along with already nerf'd combat allowed the DK to engage multiple targets. Battle roar was built around that system, it allowed the class to sustain. When it was dropped the sustain of this class dropped to more so for Mag DKs. Every other class has either built in passives or class skills that provide a great deal of resources. DK the innate support tank received most of it's benefits from this system.

No one uses Dragon leap as someone pointed out. You've got Dawnbreaker or Onslaught that helps the others you listed aside from igneous shield which I am quite sure I listed as one of the things that helps out incredibly is what makes us strong.

Lastly if you think No good stam DK uses Corrosive armor, if you play on XBL I will glady duel you a few times to prove otherwise. As a solo player who has played PvP only solo until I reigned as emperor, I will gladly help open your eyes to why corrosive armor is if not the best defensive ultimate in the game.

@Dorrino
I forgot the numbers for battle roar but for helping hands I was receiving I believe either 800 or 900 stamina for a 4k igneous shield on PTS

So let's say that my Magic regen is bare bones 600. Currently on live when I use Igneous shield in my PvP setup I get back around 1750 stamina and will recover that use within 6.6 seconds since the skill on live is 4k. With the changes on PTS which have stamina return based on max level and if your stamina is below the threshold I receive around 900 stamina for a 4k costing skill.
Do you not see the disparity there especially when stamina sorcerer pays slightly less for something that gives back both health and stamina?

MaxwellC wrote: »

@Dorrino
I forgot the numbers for battle roar but for helping hands I was receiving I believe either 800 or 900 stamina for a 4k igneous shield on PTS

So let's say that my Magic regen is bare bones 600. Currently on live when I use Igneous shield in my PvP setup I get back around 1750 stamina and will recover that use within 6.6 seconds since the skill on live is 4k. With the changes on PTS which have stamina return based on max level and if your stamina is below the threshold I receive around 900 stamina for a 4k costing skill.
Do you not see the disparity there especially when stamina sorcerer pays slightly less for something that gives back both health and stamina?

So we have 1 - 900/1750 = 45% nerf to this passive. Nightblade's syphonings got about 2*75% nerf in sustain (one resources instead of 2 and ~75% less resource return).

Sorcs is not an example since unlike other classes they have NOT receive any sustain nerfs yet.

NBrookus wrote: »

I think a static PvE DPS test is about the worst possible way to test PvP performance for magicka DKs.

Still it's the only repeatable way to access general sustainability of the classes.

NBrookus wrote: »

The two aren't remotely similar in gear, abilities used or situation. No one is holding a boss still for you in PvP while you concentrate on a DPS rotation, and bosses don't purge the 10k of magicka you spent layering dots with a 2k purge (templars). Bosses don't dodge 50% of your skills (everything stamina), all of which each cost more than a single dodge. Nor run circles around you with mobility (sorcs.)

Still we need to start with a reliable metrics before factoring out pvp specific details.

NBrookus wrote: »

As for magplar stamina sustain, I usually run tri-food and that gives me more than enough stam to CC break, selectively block, and dodge when essential. Many times I don't have to burn stam, I can mistform or purge roots. Purging 5 things makes up for a lot of resources that would otherwise be spent on healing and shielding on a DK. Although both classes lack mobility and tend to wear heavy armor for mitigation, the playstyle is not very similar.

Lack of purge on magdk leads to worse mag sustain, stam should still be unaffected, while mistform is de facto a class skill for both magdk and magtemplar:)

So superficially it seems like magdk should have better stam sustain, while magplar should have better mag sustain (not taking into account battle roar for mag returns).

Is this correct?

MaxwellC wrote: »

@Dorrino

So you're talking about the Heavy armor meta where someone rocks 2h/ swordnboard?

We're talking about what makes stamDK one of the strongest 1v1, 1vx and small man specs in the game on live.

We definitely need to consider meta builds since everything else by definition will provide a similar (not higher) performance at best.

MaxwellC wrote: »

Take flight will not beat onslaught on raw damage, tooltip wise sure it looks better but you have to calculate mitigation with that. Onslaught on the other hand does immediate damage but ignores mitigation so again take flight does not beat onslaught whatsoever. I'm not sure what builds you look up but I advise you to test it for yourself as I have as numbers prove otherwise.

Pvp isn't about raw damage. Pvp is about raw damage on a cc-ed opponent:) That's why db, leap and incap beat onslaught that hard. If a target gets onslaught it will immediately react and recover. If the target gets hit by anything of the 'holy trio' above there will be an unavoidable follow-up with executioner.

MaxwellC wrote: »

How can onslaught not be effectively used? Take flight you can see it coming and dodge as far as I know and you state that onslaught is easy to avoid?

Because in close melee range there's NOT enough time to properly react to the leap. Unlike leaps from distance that are really easy to avoid.

MaxwellC wrote: »

It's like a nightblades incap which you barely dodge unless you know the players habits lol.

Incap to the face works so rarely on good players, so many good nightblades fear first. With the only goal to land the incap.

MaxwellC wrote: »

Not sure how I would apply numbers to that. If we were to take away a class and strip it naked and Nightblades, Templars, and Sorcerers fight using any skill aside from resource replenishing skills, then judge how long it takes for the person to run out then that would be a different thing. Unfortunately I do not play 3 other classes but only and will only main one, the DK.

People don't play naked. On the other hand people tend to use similar gear in a similar pve role.

@Dorrino
That is not enough to justify your claim regarding take flight beating onslaught whatsoever. PvP is about raw damage, chance, and tactic. I'm not sure what makes you think that onslaught is not better when it provides far more damage PvP wise then take flight.

Ok so you just said that at close range take flight is hard to avoid BUT Onslaught is also the same way lol.. It's even faster than take flight by a small factor. Take flight provides a knock back and? So that means your ultimate is not going to proc exploiter immediately unlike if you were to use dizzing swing into onslaught or if you're lucky dizzing swing animation cancel heavy attack (for the added damage bonus) into onslaught.

If a target gets immediately hit by an onslaught and survives well it's the fault of the player. No rational person executes from full health unless they feel they can provide a decent follow up Example would be what I usually do.
I engage with stampede (DoT applied from merciless charge), Dizzing swing into animation cancel the heavy attack into an onslaught. With this combo I've hit well over 15k on players. Take flight does not provide the immediate access to your CP system nor does it make it difficult for someone to react especially at close range.

Addition not only that onslaught provides even more added mitigation which allows you to sustain even more damage for x amount of seconds. Take flight provides nothing more than a knock back that is without taking into account if the opponent uses immovable pots (which a majority of the pvp players use) or if that opponent has already broken a CC which most DKs try to go for a knock back into ultimate for the exploiter CP.

@Dorrino
No, there's no exactly you completely ignored what I stated before which was the use of multiple abilities before executing with onslaught. No one simply just goes in and ulti slams an opponent and expects he/she to die immediately if that's your thinking then I'm not sure what to say.

Off balanced target as I stated I would knock back an opponent before using my ultimate or even using fossilize.

Not sure if DS gets dodged, leap + execute still works lol You're trying to push your narrative while ignoring that the same thing applies to any other close range ultimate as you stated at close range it's hard to dodge. Leap may apply the damage regardless but yet again it still is mitigated by armor and skills in play while onslaught will hit through it. Even if I miss, I miss and keep fighting; the lack of an ultimate on hand does not handicap me entirely.

Onslaught costs more yet it provides mitigation if it hits the target and if it kills the target it provides you with another ultimate use immediately which aids the passive battle roar.

Since you're most likely actively playing DK as I'm on a hiatus from the game until they make improvements to cyrodiil. Make a video and show me (using the exact same combo you would use on take flight) how its better. I have used take flight in the past and hand fun with it when it came to leaping into keeps (when they were heavily guarded) killing a few then escaping, or when I was emperor 1 hitting players before they nerf'd emperor.

Addition: No it is relevant the buff you receive from onslaught if and when it hits is pretty significant, 8 seconds allows you to fend off abilities, ultimates,,etc. In a 1 v 1 the target will recover let's say they use rally the amount of heal provided by rally nearing it's end can easily heal you to full so they will be up and ready to strike at that time. In 1 vX this has helped me to survive fights as well lol, I can sustain some extra damage and LoS before I use my escape pot (invis + speed).

DS procs exploiter because of knocking a target back is equivalent to an enemy being off balanced. Any form of hard CC/soft CC or knock back is a off balanced target. Just like when you or if you use stone giant on a mag dk and proc flame lash.

@Dorrino
Then I suggest you should play it mate. If you're making this based off of watching another player than I cannot argue that, only points that suit what you've seen will make sense. Make a DK and play one and also take flight does not cost twice as much as onslaught, take flight costs 125 and onslaught is 150.
I will make a video once I feel like returning to ESO to grind out my warlord rank but as for now I have no intention on doing so.