NA "All things True about True Flame"

LegacyDM

CPs are a crutch. Come to azura and prepare yourself for battlegrounds and real pvp.

Celas_Dranacea

IMO An 8-12 man group can absolutely be the "tip of the spear" so to speak in pushing map objectives but it usually depends on there being a population of cooperative pugs or other groups to help either with the primary objective (I.e. Let's start siege on this defended keep and hope allies are inspired to join us) or secondary objective (I.e. Let's light this keep to hopefully create opportunities for
Our allies elsewhere on the map).

Of course, sometimes an 8-12 man can also take objectives defended by groups larger than them, but that is more the exception to the rule.

No_True_Scotsman

Satiar wrote: »

Telel wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Takllin wrote: »

Anazasi wrote: »

fastolfv_ESO wrote: »

were the clips edited to remove the zerg behind you guys you stacked with all night? lol you find the nearest ad swarm and cling to them like life depended on it

I didn't cut out other groups. I try and show the fights. You can see the numbers we are running and that's about all I can do. Lets not drag any of this into the gutter, This is True Flame. If you don't run deep you just don't run.

Plenty of groups have been able to currently and, moreso in the past, play with 12 or less players and be significant players on the map.

I'm curious as to who. If by effective you mean "can PvDoor a keep or farm a resource/gate", sure. But I don't know of a single group that size that pushes the map on their own or is even interested in doing so. Mostly because at a certain point you're bumping up against content you're group simply isn't made for. Brute forcing a defended keep is not the job for 12 people. I've even watched some of the better EP guilds crown a morning emp and run around with 16ish farming their hearts out, but struggle to actually take a defended keep without serious faction backup.

I know when I'm running light (10-12ish), in terms of map play I'm pretty much confined to defending, or taking an I defended keep and then defending that. Which is why groups that size tend to roll around looking for farms and fights instead of pushing map objectives.

This one must repeat an earlier word.

"Ahem?"

To which I must reply:

"Eh?"

That's awfully Canadian of you

_Crow

The best thing about TF, is that (I like to think I am right in saying this) the guild and faction rivalry for the most part is amazing and very addicting. I for one have always been a fan of faction and team loyalty, I think it results in hardcore competition and fun gameplay! I wish everyone from small guilds to super guilds would have absolute faction loyalty and work hard to make their Faction (and guild) the best it can be! Because that is both fun, and VERY healthy for the community and the life of the game! And about the rivalries on TF... now that is something special imo! I love bashing and trash talking other enemy guilds, and I love it when they throw it back, because that shows that you care about beating them because you want to be better then them! Everything from Basketball to League of Legends, there are rivalries that make the game and gameplay sooooo much more interesting! Rock on ESO PvP guilds of all factions, and show no mercy!

DC faction strength-
If there is one thing I completely love about DC, it's their 24/7 guild rotation. Hell, I was up testing some things out in PvP a few times this week around 5-6AM CST when the factions were all at 2 bars, and what do I see? Vanzam running a zerg taking everything on the map. Now, while I am annoyed at this because it destroys any sort of competitive campaign in the close future, I can use it as an example of how DC has got their guild rotation down perfectly. AD and EP CANNOT compete with the amount of 16+ raids DC has up almost every night too! Plus on top of that, DC knows how to win a campaign and thats an undeniable fact.

DC faction weakness-
The only things that DC seems to have a weakness in, is that they do lack the amount of "Elite" guilds. Most of their guilds seem to be very "Zergy" and will run anything from 16-48+. Now, while this isn't bad in itself, it does cause problems for them sometimes because a lot of these "Elite" guilds that run 12-16 people... I like to think of them as "Zerg Busters" as in, they are made to kill kill kill dozens of players that have lower coordination and non required builds and knock out Zergs 4 times their size. So, the way I look at it, DC has one guild *Cough VE* that can put up a fight against these guilds. But if this 1 guild is not online and the other Factions have a good balance of Elite and Super guilds online, then DC will and does have major problems. Really though the only other weakness it seems they have is that DC guilds don't seem to like each other very much, but still they seem to have pretty decent teamwork and the drive to win so take that however you want.

AD faction strength-
While AD seems to be low on guilds that really have a notable identity and guilds in general, somehow the faction still seems to put up one hell of a fight even when getting pushed by DC and EP at the same time. AD's biggest strength is that they have VERY good timing on map control, as in they know when the right time is to strike a certain faction and strike them hard! If you watch the map throughout the whole prime time, you will see 3 or 4 times, AD owns half the map, pushed up to BRK and ASH, while EP and DC destroy each other around bleaks. AD also has some of the best players in the game on their team that cause problems and annoy the hell out of both other factions. And don't ever sleep on AD, they have a few up and coming guilds that are going to be a hard fight soon enough.

AD faction weakness-
I am not picking on AD in the slightest, I am just calling it how I see it. Out of the three factions, AD seems to have the most problems atm (but things are definitely getting better). AD seems to have the same problem as EP does, as in after prime time, it's open season on the faction, and if DC decides to push south, they are going to make it south. AD also just doesn't seem to be able to protect a keep like they used to anymore. I remember when it would take a LOT of EP to take Alessia and the thought of FD'ing it was insane! Now, Alessia is easy to take and easy to FD most of primetime. Their biggest weakness seems to be what I said above, AD just seems to be lacking in Zerg Buster guilds and Super Guilds, at least on a regular basis during prime time.

EP faction strength-
If there is one thing you can say about the EP faction, is that they seem to have the most loyal and non cross faction members of the three. Not to say EP doesn't have some, but for the most, EP player's blood runs pure red. EP has some of the best players in the game and I have started to see more and more of them get into group with each other, which leads me to their next biggest strength, EP has more then just one "Zerg Buster" guild or "Elite" guild, which makes it hard to keep things under control against EP when just using Zergs to push them. EP also LOVES to have massive fights and AP farm (which is also a weakness), which at times can result in EP making very large pushes on the map. Out of all three factions at FULL strength, EP has the best chance to win the most fights, a very close second is DC, and AD seems to be somewhat lower then both.

EP faction weakness-
The first and by far biggest problem EP has is the downright AWFUL guild rotation, in that as SOON as primtime ends and the late night / early morning slot starts, EP has next to no groups running and no guilds, which means a lot like AD at that time, it's open season on the faction. Another problem is that DC has around 5-6 guilds that can and will run 16+ raid groups every night, AD has 3-4, EP has 1. Yes, EP does have some very talented and powerful small man groups, but in order to push the map forward without backcapping, it does take a lot of stacking due to the sheer lack of big groups running around. EP is in somewhat of an odd place atm, in that there really isn't any guild that picks up from zone , so that leaves a LOT of players running around not sure what to do. This has started to cause big problems because with no groups picking up form zone, showing new players the basics, and letting them spread their wings and transfer to the more elite guilds, EP is basically going to be hurting for numbers all the time.

Telel

Satiar wrote: »

Telel wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Takllin wrote: »

Anazasi wrote: »

fastolfv_ESO wrote: »

were the clips edited to remove the zerg behind you guys you stacked with all night? lol you find the nearest ad swarm and cling to them like life depended on it

I didn't cut out other groups. I try and show the fights. You can see the numbers we are running and that's about all I can do. Lets not drag any of this into the gutter, This is True Flame. If you don't run deep you just don't run.

Plenty of groups have been able to currently and, moreso in the past, play with 12 or less players and be significant players on the map.

I'm curious as to who. If by effective you mean "can PvDoor a keep or farm a resource/gate", sure. But I don't know of a single group that size that pushes the map on their own or is even interested in doing so. Mostly because at a certain point you're bumping up against content you're group simply isn't made for. Brute forcing a defended keep is not the job for 12 people. I've even watched some of the better EP guilds crown a morning emp and run around with 16ish farming their hearts out, but struggle to actually take a defended keep without serious faction backup.

I know when I'm running light (10-12ish), in terms of map play I'm pretty much confined to defending, or taking an I defended keep and then defending that. Which is why groups that size tend to roll around looking for farms and fights instead of pushing map objectives.

This one must repeat an earlier word.

"Ahem?"

To which I must reply:

"Eh?"

To which khajiit then goes.

Notice me sempai-domo-blooper-kun...chan.

Or at least that group of five to eight werewolves who try their darndest to take keeps even when the only other AD are the EP alts hiding on the bridge.

Elong

Telel wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Telel wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Takllin wrote: »

Anazasi wrote: »

fastolfv_ESO wrote: »

were the clips edited to remove the zerg behind you guys you stacked with all night? lol you find the nearest ad swarm and cling to them like life depended on it

I didn't cut out other groups. I try and show the fights. You can see the numbers we are running and that's about all I can do. Lets not drag any of this into the gutter, This is True Flame. If you don't run deep you just don't run.

Plenty of groups have been able to currently and, moreso in the past, play with 12 or less players and be significant players on the map.

I'm curious as to who. If by effective you mean "can PvDoor a keep or farm a resource/gate", sure. But I don't know of a single group that size that pushes the map on their own or is even interested in doing so. Mostly because at a certain point you're bumping up against content you're group simply isn't made for. Brute forcing a defended keep is not the job for 12 people. I've even watched some of the better EP guilds crown a morning emp and run around with 16ish farming their hearts out, but struggle to actually take a defended keep without serious faction backup.

I know when I'm running light (10-12ish), in terms of map play I'm pretty much confined to defending, or taking an I defended keep and then defending that. Which is why groups that size tend to roll around looking for farms and fights instead of pushing map objectives.

This one must repeat an earlier word.

"Ahem?"

To which I must reply:

"Eh?"

To which khajiit then goes.

Notice me sempai-domo-blooper-kun...chan.

Or at least that group of five to eight werewolves who try their darndest to take keeps even when the only other AD are the EP alts hiding on the bridge.

"five to eight"

LOL

Okay x

Takllin

Satiar wrote: »

Takllin wrote: »

Anazasi wrote: »

fastolfv_ESO wrote: »

were the clips edited to remove the zerg behind you guys you stacked with all night? lol you find the nearest ad swarm and cling to them like life depended on it

I didn't cut out other groups. I try and show the fights. You can see the numbers we are running and that's about all I can do. Lets not drag any of this into the gutter, This is True Flame. If you don't run deep you just don't run.

Plenty of groups have been able to currently and, moreso in the past, play with 12 or less players and be significant players on the map.

I'm curious as to who. If by effective you mean "can PvDoor a keep or farm a resource/gate", sure. But I don't know of a single group that size that pushes the map on their own or is even interested in doing so. Mostly because at a certain point you're bumping up against content you're group simply isn't made for. Brute forcing a defended keep is not the job for 12 people. I've even watched some of the better EP guilds crown a morning emp and run around with 16ish farming their hearts out, but struggle to actually take a defended keep without serious faction backup.

I know when I'm running light (10-12ish), in terms of map play I'm pretty much confined to defending, or taking an I defended keep and then defending that. Which is why groups that size tend to roll around looking for farms and fights instead of pushing map objectives.

There's no point even responding to this trash.

Anazasi wrote: »

Takllin, I'm not going to disagree with you because there certainly are several groups that size running effectively. Let me tell a story. The Grand Army of Virginia was massive, slow at times, and chased repeatedly by the Army of the Potomac. Lee utilized his Calvary in such a way that it acted as both the eyes of the Army and the brute force where needed. If we take this concept and look at ESO we find this. (just an example so no one get mad or upset.) EP likes to ball up, we know this and they are not any different than AD or DC. Haxus, a guild that I have repeatedly complimented and admired, likes to surf inside that ball. Haxus is acting like a small Calvary group inside a larger army. We see this all the time and many players simply cry out faction stacking as if its a bad thing to play the objectives on the map. It is not at all. It's a very strong group meta and we see it all the time.

Just as Crispen identified each guild group in an early post we can see how this all plays out. Small groups that are good like VE, Haxus, Fantasia, are all playing to the strengths of there group comp. Everyone else is playing to the strengths of there groups as well and we all should be happy, holding hands, and passing around that flask; because this is an awesome game that gives us the opportunity to play as you like.

Thanks for the laugh Taran :P you saved the best of your post for last.

LegacyDM wrote: »

CPs are a crutch. Come to azura and prepare yourself for battlegrounds and real pvp.

I think we found that to be entirely untrue during no-CP week. Also I've been to Azuras numerous times. The competition is bad, really bad, and there's a reason why certain people like it there. Azuras pugs are worse than TF pugs, and there's more of them during primetime.

Satiar

Telel wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Telel wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Takllin wrote: »

Anazasi wrote: »

fastolfv_ESO wrote: »

were the clips edited to remove the zerg behind you guys you stacked with all night? lol you find the nearest ad swarm and cling to them like life depended on it

I didn't cut out other groups. I try and show the fights. You can see the numbers we are running and that's about all I can do. Lets not drag any of this into the gutter, This is True Flame. If you don't run deep you just don't run.

Plenty of groups have been able to currently and, moreso in the past, play with 12 or less players and be significant players on the map.

I'm curious as to who. If by effective you mean "can PvDoor a keep or farm a resource/gate", sure. But I don't know of a single group that size that pushes the map on their own or is even interested in doing so. Mostly because at a certain point you're bumping up against content you're group simply isn't made for. Brute forcing a defended keep is not the job for 12 people. I've even watched some of the better EP guilds crown a morning emp and run around with 16ish farming their hearts out, but struggle to actually take a defended keep without serious faction backup.

I know when I'm running light (10-12ish), in terms of map play I'm pretty much confined to defending, or taking an I defended keep and then defending that. Which is why groups that size tend to roll around looking for farms and fights instead of pushing map objectives.

This one must repeat an earlier word.

"Ahem?"

To which I must reply:

"Eh?"

To which khajiit then goes.

Notice me sempai-domo-blooper-kun...chan.

Or at least that group of five to eight werewolves who try their darndest to take keeps even when the only other AD are the EP alts hiding on the bridge.

Taklin was, as I understood it, referring to those guilds that pride themselves on being elite and purposefully cap their numbers to remain small. Which is their choice and that's fine, I was merely taking exception to the idea that they're big players on the map like he suggests.

I don't think your group fits that description, unless you changed a lot without me noticing. You guys always seemed more focused on playing the map, training new players and worshipping Hicerne. All worthy past times, I indulge in several of them myself! It was less "small groups can't be useful" and more "under a certain size, you're going to be limited in what you can do". If you bring 8 young wolves to Ash with a DC force present, you can siege it; if you bring 20 wolves, perhaps you can take it.

Elong

Satiar wrote: »

Elong wrote: »

Telel wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Telel wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Takllin wrote: »

Anazasi wrote: »

fastolfv_ESO wrote: »

were the clips edited to remove the zerg behind you guys you stacked with all night? lol you find the nearest ad swarm and cling to them like life depended on it

I didn't cut out other groups. I try and show the fights. You can see the numbers we are running and that's about all I can do. Lets not drag any of this into the gutter, This is True Flame. If you don't run deep you just don't run.

Plenty of groups have been able to currently and, moreso in the past, play with 12 or less players and be significant players on the map.

I'm curious as to who. If by effective you mean "can PvDoor a keep or farm a resource/gate", sure. But I don't know of a single group that size that pushes the map on their own or is even interested in doing so. Mostly because at a certain point you're bumping up against content you're group simply isn't made for. Brute forcing a defended keep is not the job for 12 people. I've even watched some of the better EP guilds crown a morning emp and run around with 16ish farming their hearts out, but struggle to actually take a defended keep without serious faction backup.

I know when I'm running light (10-12ish), in terms of map play I'm pretty much confined to defending, or taking an I defended keep and then defending that. Which is why groups that size tend to roll around looking for farms and fights instead of pushing map objectives.

This one must repeat an earlier word.

"Ahem?"

To which I must reply:

"Eh?"

To which khajiit then goes.

Notice me sempai-domo-blooper-kun...chan.

Or at least that group of five to eight werewolves who try their darndest to take keeps even when the only other AD are the EP alts hiding on the bridge.

"five to eight"

LOL

Okay x

Taklin was, as I understood it, referring to those guilds that pride themselves on being elite and purposefully cap their numbers to remain small. Which is their choice and that's fine, I was merely taking exception to the idea that they're big players on the map like he suggests.

I don't think your group fits that description, unless you changed a lot without me noticing. You guys always seemed more focused on playing the map, training new players and worshipping Hicerne. All worthy past times, I indulge in several of them myself! It was less "small groups can't be useful" and more "under a certain size, you're going to be limited in what you can do". If you bring 8 young wolves to Ash with a DC force present, you can siege it; if you bring 20 wolves, perhaps you can take it.

I'm not a wolf Steve!

Satiar

Elong wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Elong wrote: »

Telel wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Telel wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Takllin wrote: »

Anazasi wrote: »

fastolfv_ESO wrote: »

were the clips edited to remove the zerg behind you guys you stacked with all night? lol you find the nearest ad swarm and cling to them like life depended on it

I didn't cut out other groups. I try and show the fights. You can see the numbers we are running and that's about all I can do. Lets not drag any of this into the gutter, This is True Flame. If you don't run deep you just don't run.

Plenty of groups have been able to currently and, moreso in the past, play with 12 or less players and be significant players on the map.

I'm curious as to who. If by effective you mean "can PvDoor a keep or farm a resource/gate", sure. But I don't know of a single group that size that pushes the map on their own or is even interested in doing so. Mostly because at a certain point you're bumping up against content you're group simply isn't made for. Brute forcing a defended keep is not the job for 12 people. I've even watched some of the better EP guilds crown a morning emp and run around with 16ish farming their hearts out, but struggle to actually take a defended keep without serious faction backup.

I know when I'm running light (10-12ish), in terms of map play I'm pretty much confined to defending, or taking an I defended keep and then defending that. Which is why groups that size tend to roll around looking for farms and fights instead of pushing map objectives.

This one must repeat an earlier word.

"Ahem?"

To which I must reply:

"Eh?"

To which khajiit then goes.

Notice me sempai-domo-blooper-kun...chan.

Or at least that group of five to eight werewolves who try their darndest to take keeps even when the only other AD are the EP alts hiding on the bridge.

"five to eight"

LOL

Okay x

Taklin was, as I understood it, referring to those guilds that pride themselves on being elite and purposefully cap their numbers to remain small. Which is their choice and that's fine, I was merely taking exception to the idea that they're big players on the map like he suggests.

I don't think your group fits that description, unless you changed a lot without me noticing. You guys always seemed more focused on playing the map, training new players and worshipping Hicerne. All worthy past times, I indulge in several of them myself! It was less "small groups can't be useful" and more "under a certain size, you're going to be limited in what you can do". If you bring 8 young wolves to Ash with a DC force present, you can siege it; if you bring 20 wolves, perhaps you can take it.

I'm not a wolf Steve!

Dammit I meant to quote Telel

Telel

Satiar wrote: »

Elong wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Elong wrote: »

Telel wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Telel wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Takllin wrote: »

Anazasi wrote: »

fastolfv_ESO wrote: »

were the clips edited to remove the zerg behind you guys you stacked with all night? lol you find the nearest ad swarm and cling to them like life depended on it

I didn't cut out other groups. I try and show the fights. You can see the numbers we are running and that's about all I can do. Lets not drag any of this into the gutter, This is True Flame. If you don't run deep you just don't run.

Plenty of groups have been able to currently and, moreso in the past, play with 12 or less players and be significant players on the map.

I'm curious as to who. If by effective you mean "can PvDoor a keep or farm a resource/gate", sure. But I don't know of a single group that size that pushes the map on their own or is even interested in doing so. Mostly because at a certain point you're bumping up against content you're group simply isn't made for. Brute forcing a defended keep is not the job for 12 people. I've even watched some of the better EP guilds crown a morning emp and run around with 16ish farming their hearts out, but struggle to actually take a defended keep without serious faction backup.

I know when I'm running light (10-12ish), in terms of map play I'm pretty much confined to defending, or taking an I defended keep and then defending that. Which is why groups that size tend to roll around looking for farms and fights instead of pushing map objectives.

This one must repeat an earlier word.

"Ahem?"

To which I must reply:

"Eh?"

To which khajiit then goes.

Notice me sempai-domo-blooper-kun...chan.

Or at least that group of five to eight werewolves who try their darndest to take keeps even when the only other AD are the EP alts hiding on the bridge.

"five to eight"

LOL

Okay x

Taklin was, as I understood it, referring to those guilds that pride themselves on being elite and purposefully cap their numbers to remain small. Which is their choice and that's fine, I was merely taking exception to the idea that they're big players on the map like he suggests.

I don't think your group fits that description, unless you changed a lot without me noticing. You guys always seemed more focused on playing the map, training new players and worshipping Hicerne. All worthy past times, I indulge in several of them myself! It was less "small groups can't be useful" and more "under a certain size, you're going to be limited in what you can do". If you bring 8 young wolves to Ash with a DC force present, you can siege it; if you bring 20 wolves, perhaps you can take it.

I'm not a wolf Steve!

Dammit I meant to quote Telel

And yet for a brief moment of nirvana someone else got to be talked to like the most humble of khajiits.

For some this could be considered a highlight to an otherwise dreary day spent prancing along with their fellow herd members in a southwards journey that always ends in a respawn.

For Telel it was just something that happened five minutes ago.

Also. Why would this one go to Ash when they could instead go to Rayles, Glademist or Drakelowe for the salty buffets? Now with extra salt, and fatter orcs.

Elong

Telel wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Elong wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Elong wrote: »

Telel wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Telel wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Takllin wrote: »

Anazasi wrote: »

fastolfv_ESO wrote: »

were the clips edited to remove the zerg behind you guys you stacked with all night? lol you find the nearest ad swarm and cling to them like life depended on it

I didn't cut out other groups. I try and show the fights. You can see the numbers we are running and that's about all I can do. Lets not drag any of this into the gutter, This is True Flame. If you don't run deep you just don't run.

Plenty of groups have been able to currently and, moreso in the past, play with 12 or less players and be significant players on the map.

I'm curious as to who. If by effective you mean "can PvDoor a keep or farm a resource/gate", sure. But I don't know of a single group that size that pushes the map on their own or is even interested in doing so. Mostly because at a certain point you're bumping up against content you're group simply isn't made for. Brute forcing a defended keep is not the job for 12 people. I've even watched some of the better EP guilds crown a morning emp and run around with 16ish farming their hearts out, but struggle to actually take a defended keep without serious faction backup.

I know when I'm running light (10-12ish), in terms of map play I'm pretty much confined to defending, or taking an I defended keep and then defending that. Which is why groups that size tend to roll around looking for farms and fights instead of pushing map objectives.

This one must repeat an earlier word.

"Ahem?"

To which I must reply:

"Eh?"

To which khajiit then goes.

Notice me sempai-domo-blooper-kun...chan.

Or at least that group of five to eight werewolves who try their darndest to take keeps even when the only other AD are the EP alts hiding on the bridge.

"five to eight"

LOL

Okay x

Taklin was, as I understood it, referring to those guilds that pride themselves on being elite and purposefully cap their numbers to remain small. Which is their choice and that's fine, I was merely taking exception to the idea that they're big players on the map like he suggests.

I don't think your group fits that description, unless you changed a lot without me noticing. You guys always seemed more focused on playing the map, training new players and worshipping Hicerne. All worthy past times, I indulge in several of them myself! It was less "small groups can't be useful" and more "under a certain size, you're going to be limited in what you can do". If you bring 8 young wolves to Ash with a DC force present, you can siege it; if you bring 20 wolves, perhaps you can take it.

I'm not a wolf Steve!

Dammit I meant to quote Telel

And yet for a brief moment of nirvana someone else got to be talked to like the most humble of khajiits.

For some this could be considered a highlight to an otherwise dreary day spent prancing along with their fellow herd members in a southwards journey that always ends in a respawn.

For Telel it was just something that happened five minutes ago.

Also. Why would this one go to Ash when they could instead go to Rayles, Glademist or Drakelowe for the salty buffets? Now with extra salt, and fatter orcs.

edited for cannot be arsed.

Telel

Elong wrote: »

Telel wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Elong wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Elong wrote: »

Telel wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Telel wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Takllin wrote: »

Anazasi wrote: »

fastolfv_ESO wrote: »

were the clips edited to remove the zerg behind you guys you stacked with all night? lol you find the nearest ad swarm and cling to them like life depended on it

I didn't cut out other groups. I try and show the fights. You can see the numbers we are running and that's about all I can do. Lets not drag any of this into the gutter, This is True Flame. If you don't run deep you just don't run.

Plenty of groups have been able to currently and, moreso in the past, play with 12 or less players and be significant players on the map.

I'm curious as to who. If by effective you mean "can PvDoor a keep or farm a resource/gate", sure. But I don't know of a single group that size that pushes the map on their own or is even interested in doing so. Mostly because at a certain point you're bumping up against content you're group simply isn't made for. Brute forcing a defended keep is not the job for 12 people. I've even watched some of the better EP guilds crown a morning emp and run around with 16ish farming their hearts out, but struggle to actually take a defended keep without serious faction backup.

I know when I'm running light (10-12ish), in terms of map play I'm pretty much confined to defending, or taking an I defended keep and then defending that. Which is why groups that size tend to roll around looking for farms and fights instead of pushing map objectives.

This one must repeat an earlier word.

"Ahem?"

To which I must reply:

"Eh?"

To which khajiit then goes.

Notice me sempai-domo-blooper-kun...chan.

Or at least that group of five to eight werewolves who try their darndest to take keeps even when the only other AD are the EP alts hiding on the bridge.

"five to eight"

LOL

Okay x

Taklin was, as I understood it, referring to those guilds that pride themselves on being elite and purposefully cap their numbers to remain small. Which is their choice and that's fine, I was merely taking exception to the idea that they're big players on the map like he suggests.

I don't think your group fits that description, unless you changed a lot without me noticing. You guys always seemed more focused on playing the map, training new players and worshipping Hicerne. All worthy past times, I indulge in several of them myself! It was less "small groups can't be useful" and more "under a certain size, you're going to be limited in what you can do". If you bring 8 young wolves to Ash with a DC force present, you can siege it; if you bring 20 wolves, perhaps you can take it.

I'm not a wolf Steve!

Dammit I meant to quote Telel

And yet for a brief moment of nirvana someone else got to be talked to like the most humble of khajiits.

For some this could be considered a highlight to an otherwise dreary day spent prancing along with their fellow herd members in a southwards journey that always ends in a respawn.

For Telel it was just something that happened five minutes ago.

Also. Why would this one go to Ash when they could instead go to Rayles, Glademist or Drakelowe for the salty buffets? Now with extra salt, and fatter orcs.

edited for cannot be arsed.

This one muchly approves of any thoughts that basically end with 'just ignore whatever that khajiit is doing. He's not worth going after.'

This one would also prefer to see that line of thinking continue on with. "This bridge is dumb, and farming people's alts is dumb. Let's go fight some blues at least once this week. Then maybe that dumb cat will stop attacking Drakelowe with his ultra mega zerg of eight guys."

tonemd

LegacyDM wrote: »

CPs are a crutch. Come to azura and prepare yourself for battlegrounds and real pvp.

Do you really want to invite the hordes to your no-CP island?

stuartx13

'' BoD and SG pretty much hate each other.'' NO SG ShadowGrabber has never said in comms anything said anything about BOD ever (not to say guild members might hold something but not ShadowGrabber ) as far as i know only thing i know at the end of last campain on TF SG said go to BRK make him emp for DC. him as he knows who he is.

Kilandros

Did Crispen just say that DC guilds try to avoid stacking? I just assumed VE and BoD and Shadowgrabber had all merged. Whoops.

Texas

Kilandros wrote: »

Did Crispen just say that DC guilds try to avoid stacking? I just assumed VE and BoD and Shadowgrabber had all merged. Whoops.

Same could be said for EP and their Haxvictus Militia that is seen at almost every keep engagement.......it appears that high concentrations of Himalayan Pink makes people a little too reactive.

Elong

This thread has now been officially zerged by VE with the emergence of Tex.

Texas

The calling to zerg is strong in me!

No_True_Scotsman

Kilandros wrote: »

Did Crispen just say that DC guilds try to avoid stacking? I just assumed VE and BoD and Shadowgrabber had all merged. Whoops.

And yet how often do all of us see Invictus balls deep in EP faction stacks? Hint: a lot. The presence of the entire faction has never deterred you. So stop complaining about other people doing the shite you do as well. No one likes a hypocrite.

Elong

Everyone zergs.

VE are better at it.

No_True_Scotsman

Elong wrote: »

Everyone zergs.

VE are better at it.

I always preferred terran tho

Elong

No_True_Scotsman wrote: »

Elong wrote: »

Everyone zergs.

VE are better at it.

I always preferred terran tho

Let's be perfectly honest, IR were a bigger zerg than most of the guilds people QQ about these days, me included.

Satiar

Elong wrote: »

No_True_Scotsman wrote: »

Elong wrote: »

Everyone zergs.

VE are better at it.

I always preferred terran tho

Let's be perfectly honest, IR were a bigger zerg than most of the guilds people QQ about these days, me included.

Accusations of zerging grow as the game shrinks.

Elong

Satiar wrote: »

Elong wrote: »

No_True_Scotsman wrote: »

Elong wrote: »

Everyone zergs.

VE are better at it.

I always preferred terran tho

Let's be perfectly honest, IR were a bigger zerg than most of the guilds people QQ about these days, me included.

Accusations of zerging grow as the game shrinks.

Most people are just apathetic towards it now, and the gameplay has been made to cater to it. The population caps being decreased time and again by ZOS despite them denying it also makes these zergs smaller.

Still, it's always painful to see BOD/Arcadian/Pug Guild running around holding hands. They claim to dislike eachother, but it must be only at the top of the food chain, because it's been a common sight the last 2 weeks, and very hard to counter late at night.

No_True_Scotsman

Elong wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Elong wrote: »

No_True_Scotsman wrote: »

Elong wrote: »

Everyone zergs.

VE are better at it.

I always preferred terran tho

Let's be perfectly honest, IR were a bigger zerg than most of the guilds people QQ about these days, me included.

Accusations of zerging grow as the game shrinks.

Most people are just apathetic towards it now, and the gameplay has been made to cater to it. The population caps being decreased time and again by ZOS despite them denying it also makes these zergs smaller.

Still, it's always painful to see BOD/Arcadian/Pug Guild running around holding hands. They claim to dislike eachother, but it must be only at the top of the food chain, because it's been a common sight the last 2 weeks, and very hard to counter late at night.

Cyrodiil is a giant game of connect-the-dots. Even if no one likes each other, and DC guilds certainly don't, people will end up in the same place regardless. It's why accusations of faction stacking are so dumb. No one does it on purpose. It just happens, and even the most anti-zerg of the remaining guilds are ambivalent about it.

The only people I've seen look at a faction zerg and actually walk away from it are KHole and Mojican & friends. VE will run passed a faction zerg, but if the faction shows up to our fight we're not going to just prance away for internet morality points. It's just gaem

Elong

No_True_Scotsman wrote: »

Elong wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Elong wrote: »

No_True_Scotsman wrote: »

Elong wrote: »

Everyone zergs.

VE are better at it.

I always preferred terran tho

Let's be perfectly honest, IR were a bigger zerg than most of the guilds people QQ about these days, me included.

Accusations of zerging grow as the game shrinks.

Most people are just apathetic towards it now, and the gameplay has been made to cater to it. The population caps being decreased time and again by ZOS despite them denying it also makes these zergs smaller.

Still, it's always painful to see BOD/Arcadian/Pug Guild running around holding hands. They claim to dislike eachother, but it must be only at the top of the food chain, because it's been a common sight the last 2 weeks, and very hard to counter late at night.

Cyrodiil is a giant game of connect-the-dots. Even if no one likes each other, and DC guilds certainly don't, people will end up in the same place regardless. It's why accusations of faction stacking are so dumb. No one does it on purpose. It just happens, and even the most anti-zerg of the remaining guilds are ambivalent about it.

The only people I've seen look at a faction zerg and actually walk away from it are KHole and Mojican & friends. VE will run passed a faction zerg, but if the faction shows up to our fight we're not going to just prance away for internet morality points. It's just gaem

That's a fair point, even now in my TS we'll all be like "ah ffs EP zerg showed up to steal our fight!", but we will rarely move on. Try to find another fight next time though for sure.

I will walk away from anywhere Raven And The Rose are though, and if they're pulling a stealth raid maneuver against 5 players I will put down an oil pot.

Satiar

Elong wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Elong wrote: »

No_True_Scotsman wrote: »

Elong wrote: »

Everyone zergs.

VE are better at it.

I always preferred terran tho

Let's be perfectly honest, IR were a bigger zerg than most of the guilds people QQ about these days, me included.

Accusations of zerging grow as the game shrinks.

Most people are just apathetic towards it now, and the gameplay has been made to cater to it. The population caps being decreased time and again by ZOS despite them denying it also makes these zergs smaller.

Still, it's always painful to see BOD/Arcadian/Pug Guild running around holding hands. They claim to dislike eachother, but it must be only at the top of the food chain, because it's been a common sight the last 2 weeks, and very hard to counter late at night.

I forgive most guilds for stacking, if only from a practical point of view. When we were first training zone pugs in VE back when, nights were damn frustrating. It got very old going to Chalman and then OH NO it's No Mercy and we're dead. Prance down to BRK or Arrius and it's Decibel layering us with more negates than we had people in raid. At a certain point it's just not fun, and I imagine that many groups are weary of running into the death machines that are the few top level guilds on the server.

I know Saramis, for example, will go to get Aleswell back; take bleakers, siege from north or front door a few times....and then will get frustrated and go somewhere else. And in an AvAvA game, why not go back with another group? What's the point of a faction if you're supposed to do it all yourself? The way I see it, as much as ZoS created the Zerg mindset, so did all us high level players and guilds that happily farmed people until the only reasonable options were "quit pvp" or "come back with more".

Anyways. There's only 3 or so guilds I don't like seeing as part of the faction stack, and that's only because they're loud and proud about Not doing it and happily call out others for doing so. No one likes a hypocrite.

Elong

Satiar wrote: »

Elong wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Elong wrote: »

No_True_Scotsman wrote: »

Elong wrote: »

Everyone zergs.

VE are better at it.

I always preferred terran tho

Let's be perfectly honest, IR were a bigger zerg than most of the guilds people QQ about these days, me included.

Accusations of zerging grow as the game shrinks.

Most people are just apathetic towards it now, and the gameplay has been made to cater to it. The population caps being decreased time and again by ZOS despite them denying it also makes these zergs smaller.

Still, it's always painful to see BOD/Arcadian/Pug Guild running around holding hands. They claim to dislike eachother, but it must be only at the top of the food chain, because it's been a common sight the last 2 weeks, and very hard to counter late at night.

I forgive most guilds for stacking, if only from a practical point of view. When we were first training zone pugs in VE back when, nights were damn frustrating. It got very old going to Chalman and then OH NO it's No Mercy and we're dead. Prance down to BRK or Arrius and it's Decibel layering us with more negates than we had people in raid. At a certain point it's just not fun, and I imagine that many groups are weary of running into the death machines that are the few top level guilds on the server.

I know Saramis, for example, will go to get Aleswell back; take bleakers, siege from north or front door a few times....and then will get frustrated and go somewhere else. And in an AvAvA game, why not go back with another group? What's the point of a faction if you're supposed to do it all yourself? The way I see it, as much as ZoS created the Zerg mindset, so did all us high level players and guilds that happily farmed people until the only reasonable options were "quit pvp" or "come back with more".

Anyways. There's only 3 or so guilds I don't like seeing as part of the faction stack, and that's only because they're loud and proud about Not doing it and happily call out others for doing so. No one likes a hypocrite.

I'm at that same stage as you were with Red VE. But we'll get there. After a few wipes you do end up falling back into the zerg surf. It's natural because you want to win and get morale up too.

stuartx13

Pug Guild SG just run as a group sometimes we happen to be at the same spot as others like today at alswell 3 EP guilds you think we were going to let BOD or AK (not sure who was there ) get bushwacked no way.Only time we team up is with our brother guild Pug's of DC that it But it's all fun SG gives respct to all the guilds we fight .