PTS Patch Notes v3.0.1

Gomumon

JimT722 wrote: »

I feel that every class needs be rebuilt from the ground up. Even more so to fit the style of combat they strive to achieve.

Pretty much. I think every class should have clearly defined pros and cons, and an ability to play each role in a way that accommodates them. Each class should have one skill tree that's useful for DD, one for healing/ultility, and one for tanking/cc.

The problem with that (and with this patch in general) however, is that boss health and mechanics need to be touched as well. Boss mechanics are very vanilla and don't require much activity outside of your role. One element that would promote diversity, at least in PVE, would be to have bosses that could benefit from deviations from the current cookie-cutter meta.

I think the most fun boss in 4 player dungeons is Velidreth, followed by Lord Warden. Both are bosses that can be challenging even when you know EXACTLY what to do. They have the right balance of one shot mechanics, mobility, and phases that keeps you on your toes.

As for PVP, having a rock-paper-scissors style balance to each class would force people to play diverse without needing to gimp any one class to force diversity. If, for example, everyone started running Mag Sorcs, but Stamblades were their antithesis, then you'd see a rise in that, until whatever was the rival for nightblades rose in population. Over time, you'd start to see equilibrium, IMO.

Lifecode666

Even now you can kill 4-5 people alone with sorc..

Next 2-3 pacthes should be all about class balance or game will fail.

KramUzibra

I think your forgot to fix the Dk and redguard!!?

Darlgon

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Templar
Aedric Spear
Spear Shards: The synergy from this ability and its morphs now restores Magicka or Stamina based on whichever has the highest maximum, instead of whichever has the largest missing percentage.
Known Issue: Luminous Shard’s resource return for the casting Templar is still restoring resources based on the largest missing percent. This will be fixed in future PTS patch.

Do you not want magicka specs to be able to tank...anything ever?

When I left the game.. err.. 18 months agoish, they had successfully eliminated the tank. Nothing but raids needed tanks, and then just one in the entire raid. Four-mans were doable with all DPS and one of them using a healstick. The change to "no regen while blocking" was basically the death of the tank. Did something happen that tanks were relevant?

byrness

I'm confused does patch 3.0.1 replace 3.0.0.
Or are they just add on top of 3.0.0?

aeowulf

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Jitterbug wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno which parts, if any, are included in and or lifted from the NDA?

The class changes from the base game are not under NDA.

Also, everyone, please remember this is only the start of our second week on the PTS. There are still adjustments to be made in the coming patches.

groovy, please can you adjust siphoning attacks back to how it was pre 3.0.0 sorcs did not really get any class based sustain changes, DK got 'a buff if your stamina is under about 20k' but even if it was around 30k that's *only* a 1/3 reduction. NB got changed to basically zero resource sustain because the skill was turned into a heal (which they don't need). I understand templars also got hit.

Looking at the leaderboards NB already make up about 1 in 20 players completing end game trials. This is a good indication of where NB's actually are as opposed to where people think they are. If anything they needed to be made stronger not have constant negative changes applied over and over again. The change to siphoning attacks is a massively negative thing for many NB's. Please look at the following two threads which contain content from people way more knowledgable than myself:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/338303/update-3-0-resource-management-the-good-the-bad-and-the-very-bad-gills-video

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/337713/pve-stamina-dds-analysis-only-existing-classes/p1

The second was even read & commented on by @RichLambert and he even mentioned that it helped tremendously.

I don't believe many NB builds (especially tank) can currently withstand the current changes to siphoning attacks. They are getting a skill that restores +356 of a resource <on condition of landing a weapon attack> of one resource at a cost of over 2000 of that resource. DK get +990 stamina passively for basically performing an action of casting something (bare in mind that this is in addition to the effect given from casting) and sorcs retain their skill that allows them to gain over 4k of a resource whenever they like (barring interuptions) Meaning it will take around 14seconds of nothing but light attacks to get back the same resources a sorc can in about 1 second.

Also please consider tanks are the most sought after class & the reason dungeon finder takes so long. These resources changes will reduce the number of tanks in general when tanking needs to be made more popular so DPS are not waiting so long.

Right now, a tank can join a group and if he doesn't think they will finish the DLC dungeon can leave after 15 mins and be picked up by another group instantly. I believe finder is still broken for replacing roles? so the tank leaving will 9 times out of 10 mean the group collapses and the other classes are returned to waiting in line for a significant amount of time.

Thanks for reading.

elven.were_wolf

@ZOS_GinaBruno
Could you guys please condsider a free reassignment of skill points & CP when Morrowind goes live? Or reducing the cost of reassigning skills and CP, kind of like you guys did in the Dark Brotherhood patch?

Because the changes are quite significant and that would mean I'll need to pay at least 20k gold upon the fist login on the morrowind patch to switch up my characters builds for these changes. ( I have accumilated quite an amount skill points you see.)

I'm already broke on live.

Khaos_Bane

At least they changed shards to go to your highest max stat. I am glad they listed to feedback but we shouldn't even have to mention this to the developers. Going to the resource that has the greatest percentage missing never should have been the mechanic.

Tib

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Unrelated, we’ve also removed the cat from the office.

Not even the innocent cats are left untouched by nerfs

Nazarousb14_ESO

Well even one of the best players in the game doesn't know why this is being done. He agrees with what I try to say about these changes, and the effects on the game, if put much better than I can manage.
He does use some colorful words, which is unlike him, so if you are offended easily I would suggest not watching, but his professionalism beyond that is incredibale.
https://youtu.be/fK5D32QGsy0

Gomumon

Darlgon wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Templar
Aedric Spear
Spear Shards: The synergy from this ability and its morphs now restores Magicka or Stamina based on whichever has the highest maximum, instead of whichever has the largest missing percentage.
Known Issue: Luminous Shard’s resource return for the casting Templar is still restoring resources based on the largest missing percent. This will be fixed in future PTS patch.

Do you not want magicka specs to be able to tank...anything ever?

When I left the game.. err.. 18 months agoish, they had successfully eliminated the tank. Nothing but raids needed tanks, and then just one in the entire raid. Four-mans were doable with all DPS and one of them using a healstick. The change to "no regen while blocking" was basically the death of the tank. Did something happen that tanks were relevant?

Some of the former veteran dungeons (now version II) have one shot mechanics on Vet. DLC dungeons as well. For the most part, however, dungeons can still be done with 3 DPS and a healer doing DPS between Spell Power Cure buffs.

Gomumon

aeowulf wrote: »

Right now, a tank can join a group and if he doesn't think they will finish the DLC dungeon can leave after 15 mins and be picked up by another group instantly. I believe finder is still broken for replacing roles? so the tank leaving will 9 times out of 10 mean the group collapses and the other classes are returned to waiting in line for a significant amount of time.

Don't queue for a DLC dungeon you can't do. Also, be the change you want to see. Tank. It's the easiest way to learn dungeon mechanics without dying or holding everyone back. Just go poke the obvious threats and block.

Darlgon

byrness wrote: »

I'm confused does patch 3.0.1 replace 3.0.0.
Or are they just add on top of 3.0.0?

Err. Every patch EVER adds to the top of the main version?

They will usually note if something reverses a previous patch.

Games are like onions, they have layers. If they have to replace something, its called a rollback and they take away any advancement.

Angi

@ZOS_GinaBruno


I can't find the "Donolon's Holiday Book" in the Ultimate Crafting Crate ,is a bug or maybe im just looking at it bad? ,in the other hand i got the "Aetherial Ambrosia and Mythic Aetherial Ambrosia" in the Donolon's rare recipe book ,but still the Donolon's holiday book is missing

Ajaxduo

Have to say it, but the balance changes are pretty poor. The functionality change to shards is nice, but people will still find the homogenization upsetting.

-Warden, still retains major mending...instead of it being converted to minor mending - even though it was ripped from Templar.
-Warden, so about that stam morph of swarm...
-Nightblades still get shafted with siphoning attacks, it costs to cast and restores a minimal amount of resource. Can you just make one morph a heal and the other a free resource management? Warden gets a free resource management skill, unbalanced if you ask me.
-Nothing for DK's...

Going to need to big changes very soon to reassure the player base. Oh and stop purposefully miswording nerfs as buffs, you are triggering Alcast!

Kaymorolis

DemonNinja wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

JamieAubrey wrote: »

Still NO FIX for Streak

GG

Posted about this in a streak-specific thread, but we have a fix for this coming in next week's PTS patch to be fully tested.

@ZOS_GinaBruno

The point of patch notes is to be INCLUSIVE OF ALL RELEVANT PLAYER FACING CHANGES to the game. (Excluding NDA type things, of course.)

Please stop spreading stuff around - it gets confusing and lost in the clutter of the forums. This is the first game I have ever played or worked on professionally where the development team does things piecemeal like this.

I thought the point of patch notes was to show what changed with THIS patch, not what will change with the NEXT patch.

Elsonso

.

Kaymorolis wrote: »

DemonNinja wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

JamieAubrey wrote: »

Still NO FIX for Streak

GG

Posted about this in a streak-specific thread, but we have a fix for this coming in next week's PTS patch to be fully tested.

@ZOS_GinaBruno

The point of patch notes is to be INCLUSIVE OF ALL RELEVANT PLAYER FACING CHANGES to the game. (Excluding NDA type things, of course.)

Please stop spreading stuff around - it gets confusing and lost in the clutter of the forums. This is the first game I have ever played or worked on professionally where the development team does things piecemeal like this.

I thought the point of patch notes was to show what changed with THIS patch, not what will change with the NEXT patch.

If a current patch note will be influenced by a future patch change, we need to be told.

Arcturius

Well, if it wasn't evident before, it should be now. ZOS is fully committed to these changes to sustain. Continue to complain about it, but I expect Patch Notes 3.0.2 to include @ZOS_GinaBruno doing her best Willy Wonka impression:

Gomumon

Arcturius wrote: »

Well, if it wasn't evident before, it should be now. ZOS is fully committed to these changes to sustain. Continue to complain about it, but I expect Patch Notes 3.0.2 to include @ZOS_GinaBruno doing her best Willy Wonka impression:

This thread should be closed now, as there's no following that.

Uriel_Nocturne

My suggestion:

All of the Sustain and Cost Reduction changes together are killing 3 of 5 classes. If introduced separately, they probably wouldn't have been too bad to work around; but together, they're soul-crushing.

So I deeply understand that you guys at ZOS seem to think that Sustain and Cost Reduction are "out of control" (pro tip: they aren't...), so I came up with an alternative suggestion that would still allow you to reign in Sustain and Cost Reduction, but won't prohibitively punish your player base.

Don't remove the Cost Reduction and Sustain CP nodes, change their values.

You've done it with many other nodes in this PTS patch, you can do it for the Sustain and Cost Reduction nodes as well.

Just make it so that Warlock/Warlord only have a maximum of 15% on your precious 100pt scale like you've done to other nodes. That will "reign in" the sustain and cost reduction, and the player will still have to make adjustments while keeping the "fast paced" feel of battle, but will keep the mythical "infinite sustain" builds from being able to sustain indefinitely.

This would be a far more accepted change IMO, and would do quite a lot to stem the rampant negativity that the current PTS patch is receiving... pretty much across the entirety of the internet.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_JessicaFolsom What do you think? I believe that this would be a much more viable "middle-ground" to meet your players on, because honestly; only a very small minority of players are fans of the upcoming changes as they stand right now.

Kodrac

Yeah you listened to feedback alright. Just like group finder it's all DPS all the time. So is the game going full ***? The shard/orb changes make all tanks have to be stamina based to get back stamina. Are you going to be making a boat load of stamina morphs for the tanking skills? Are you going to bring back stam regen for blocking? Or will you make a stam/mag morph for each shard/orb skill? And, no, I'm not going to tank with a flippin stick.

Gomumon

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

My suggestion:

All of the Sustain and Cost Reduction changes together are killing 3 of 5 classes. If introduced separately, they probably wouldn't have been too bad to work around; but together, they're soul-crushing.

So I deeply understand that you guys at ZOS seem to think that Sustain and Cost Reduction are "out of control" (pro tip: they aren't...), so I came up with an alternative suggestion that would still allow you to reign in Sustain and Cost Reduction, but won't prohibitively punish your player base.

Don't remove the Cost Reduction and Sustain CP nodes, change their values.

You've done it with many other nodes in this PTS patch, you can do it for the Sustain and Cost Reduction nodes as well.

Just make it so that Warlock/Warlord only have a maximum of 15% on your precious 100pt scale like you've done to other nodes. That will "reign in" the sustain and cost reduction, and the player will still have to make adjustments while keeping the "fast paced" feel of battle, but will keep the mythical "infinite sustain" builds from being able to sustain indefinitely.

This would be a far more accepted change IMO, and would do quite a lot to stem the rampant negativity that the current PTS patch is receiving... pretty much across the entirety of the internet.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_JessicaFolsom What do you think? I believe that this would be a much more viable "middle-ground" to meet your players on, because honestly; only a very small minority of players are fans of the upcoming changes as they stand right now.

ZOS trying to digest your suggestions:

Elsonso

Gomumon wrote: »

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

My suggestion:

All of the Sustain and Cost Reduction changes together are killing 3 of 5 classes. If introduced separately, they probably wouldn't have been too bad to work around; but together, they're soul-crushing.

So I deeply understand that you guys at ZOS seem to think that Sustain and Cost Reduction are "out of control" (pro tip: they aren't...), so I came up with an alternative suggestion that would still allow you to reign in Sustain and Cost Reduction, but won't prohibitively punish your player base.

Don't remove the Cost Reduction and Sustain CP nodes, change their values.

You've done it with many other nodes in this PTS patch, you can do it for the Sustain and Cost Reduction nodes as well.

Just make it so that Warlock/Warlord only have a maximum of 15% on your precious 100pt scale like you've done to other nodes. That will "reign in" the sustain and cost reduction, and the player will still have to make adjustments while keeping the "fast paced" feel of battle, but will keep the mythical "infinite sustain" builds from being able to sustain indefinitely.

This would be a far more accepted change IMO, and would do quite a lot to stem the rampant negativity that the current PTS patch is receiving... pretty much across the entirety of the internet.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_JessicaFolsom What do you think? I believe that this would be a much more viable "middle-ground" to meet your players on, because honestly; only a very small minority of players are fans of the upcoming changes as they stand right now.

ZOS trying to digest your suggestions:

No, they are reading the comments and putting them in context.

I have to think that they have already considered, and abandoned, this idea. It is simply too obvious. That should have been the first thing they considered. Granted, they might be blind to the obvious solutions. I have seen this sort of blindness from them, in the past. It is like they are leaping from one decision to the next in a long and twisty path, only to end up right next to where they started.

Still, it is worth mentioning since it might be an option they are considering and additional commentary on this line of reasoning might be beneficial.

HoboSteveIrwin

reads patch notes

walks to developers office

Arcturius

Kodrac wrote: »

Yeah you listened to feedback alright. Just like group finder it's all DPS all the time. So is the game going full ***? The shard/orb changes make all tanks have to be stamina based to get back stamina. Are you going to be making a boat load of stamina morphs for the tanking skills? Are you going to bring back stam regen for blocking? Or will you make a stam/mag morph for each shard/orb skill? And, no, I'm not going to tank with a flippin stick.

Gomumon

lordrichter wrote: »

No, they are reading the comments and putting them in context.

Putting them in context:

Artis

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Warden

• Animal Companions
  • Savage Beast: This passive ability now generates Ultimate when you cast an Animal Companion ability, instead of when you deal damage with an Animal Companion ability.
    Developer Comments:
    This change will make generating Ultimate from this passive more reliable for Wardens, as it can now proc off non-damaging Animal Companion abilities such as Betty Netch and Falcon’s Swiftness.

Doesn't sound like a good idea. Of course it will be more reliable. But dealing damage has to be reliable enough + it rewards players for successfully doing damage and is in line with other classes who can't gain ultimate out of combat.

What you're doing is making sure Wardens can prepare for any combat by casting their nondamaging abilities and having ultimate in the beginning of most fights. In pvp they can gain ultimate without really pressuring another player - sounds like he might ,say, dodge an ability but a Warden will still gain ultimate just for casting it.

People will complain that you're making warden p2w and overpowered. And I think now you see it yourself that this passive is unfair considering what other classes have (except for sorcs, who benefit from reduced cost all the time - but they still at least need to do something to gain ultimate). This change should be reverted or you should give something similar to other classes, in my opinion.

Kemenril

Like the changes to Barrier duration on NB, but is ANYBODY up there not hearing the screaming that's happening down here about siphoning? Self-heals are not what NBs are concerned about!

Also, while I do like the Barrier duration changes, all it does is keep up the supremacy of the heavy armor meta. Are you a StamBlade? Or like using Light Armor sets? Keep on walking by, nothing for you to see here. If the intent was to provoke some diversity in builds and in the meta, this does exactly the opposite of that.

So:
1) Keep the Barrier change. (On its own, it's good.)
2) Roll back those changes to Siphoning Strikes. They are almost universally loathed and nobody is able to tell what your motivations for the change are.

Bazeric

Nazarousb14_ESO wrote: »

I don't understand, why we would be going back to beta and early launch type game play, where sustain was terrible. If we remember this game almost died and the terrible sustain was one reason. I thought this lesson had been learned already?

I thought is was all the bugs, lack of new content, and the subscription model being outdated to the younger gaming market... but who knows, balancing for the money (casuals) and more veteran skill driven players seems to be impossible. CP was for those who needed to feel progress instead of proficiency, then everyone got comfortable with their godlike prowess and now the sky is falling because they are finally taking steps to mask the imbalance the CP plague brought to this game. The unfortunate thing is that they stacked this with a whole slew of skill changes and a new class that hasn't had 3 years to develop. Balance can't achieved when they have to balance the difficulty of the game on CP, especially when they only allocate a certain amount of CP to be used. Otherwise they'd have to balance based on max CP, and either leave content unachievable or allow the epic power gap between people who have unlocked all the CP and players who haven't.

F7sus4

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

• Siphoning
  • Siphoning Strikes: Fixed an issue where the heal from this ability and its morphs could not critically strike.

Seriously? That's just it? Did you guys intentionally choose to ignore all the feedback provided on how literally nobody wants Leeching Strikes/Siphoning Attacks to become a healing ability instead of proper resource management ability like before? Seriously?! When you compare this skill to Warden's Netch it is utter garbage on all levels.

I guess I'm not able to express anything more without breaking forum rules... so let's just say I share the same the feelings towards you that you have towards Nightblades.

/cuckoo