What is classified as "direct damage' re: Master-at-Arms

ADarklore

My guess is that many of the new CP changes are currently 'bugged'. However, perhaps they are also giving a damage boost to compensate for the massive overkill they did when nerfing sustain; so now you have lower sustain but do more damage upfront to compensate.

Izaki

Malamar1229 wrote: »

I am pretty sure it means single target dmg...aka the opposite of AOE

@Malamar1229 No. A damage over time effect (Thaumaturge) can be single target or AoE (Burning Embers/Poison Injection/etc. vs Wall of Elements/Endless Hail/etc.) and a direct damage effect (Master-At-Arms) can be single target or AoE (Force Pulse/Surprise Attack/etc. vs Pulsar/Steel Tornado/etc.)

Izaki

sly007 wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Ashamray wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Omg so much wrong information
Direct damage is EVERYTHING that delivers damage with a single hit. Ranged attacks and magic included, even daedric curse for example. It's not a melee exclusive thing.

Not true, I suppose.
Bloodthorn set doesn't proc off Jabs, Radiant, initial hit of Backlash (which looks like absolutely direct damage).
Zenimax should explain damage types really like they explained animation cancel with diagrams. Now everything is a mess. We have so many different categories: projectiles of 4 types, beam, channels, DoTs, aoe's, direct, cast-time...
@ZOS_GinaBruno

Jabs is and has always been, a channel aka a damage over time effect as considered by the game engine.

Jabs is also considered direct damage because it procs selene.

First hit of all channels and DoTs is direct damage. But Jabs has all its hits counting as both, much like Twisting Path, so they are bugged

KingJ

Master at arms also buff certain proc sets such as selene.

NightbladeMechanics

Sizaansil wrote: »

Just tested it and Master-at-Arms increases the damage of :
- Puncturing Sweep
- Radial Sweep (Initial Damage & DoT)
- Nova
- Sun Fire (Initial Damage & DoT)
- Eye of the Storm
- Wall of Elements
- Elemental Touch (Initial Damage & DoT)
- Meteor (Initial Damage & DoT)
- Mystic Orb
- and more I couldn't test because I don't have enough time

(Un)Surprisingly, it doesn't increase Radiant Oppression's damage.
Currently writing a ticket.

@ZOS_GinaBruno

Oh god it increases destro ult?.....

Strider_Roshin

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Sizaansil wrote: »

Just tested it and Master-at-Arms increases the damage of :
- Puncturing Sweep
- Radial Sweep (Initial Damage & DoT)
- Nova
- Sun Fire (Initial Damage & DoT)
- Eye of the Storm
- Wall of Elements
- Elemental Touch (Initial Damage & DoT)
- Meteor (Initial Damage & DoT)
- Mystic Orb
- and more I couldn't test because I don't have enough time

(Un)Surprisingly, it doesn't increase Radiant Oppression's damage.
Currently writing a ticket.

@ZOS_GinaBruno

Oh god it increases destro ult?.....

Oh no....

Malamar1229

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Malamar1229 wrote: »

I am pretty sure it means single target dmg...aka the opposite of AOE

@Malamar1229 No. A damage over time effect (Thaumaturge) can be single target or AoE (Burning Embers/Poison Injection/etc. vs Wall of Elements/Endless Hail/etc.) and a direct damage effect (Master-At-Arms) can be single target or AoE (Force Pulse/Surprise Attack/etc. vs Pulsar/Steel Tornado/etc.)

It could be the wording that throws people off...so let me ask you this....what types of damage are NOT impacted by this CP star?

Mojmir

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Sizaansil wrote: »

Just tested it and Master-at-Arms increases the damage of :
- Puncturing Sweep
- Radial Sweep (Initial Damage & DoT)
- Nova
- Sun Fire (Initial Damage & DoT)
- Eye of the Storm
- Wall of Elements
- Elemental Touch (Initial Damage & DoT)
- Meteor (Initial Damage & DoT)
- Mystic Orb
- and more I couldn't test because I don't have enough time

(Un)Surprisingly, it doesn't increase Radiant Oppression's damage.
Currently writing a ticket.

@ZOS_GinaBruno

Oh god it increases destro ult?.....

Oh no....

LOL, PVP just grew a new tumor

clocksstoppe

Grumble_and_Grunt wrote: »

The introduction of this star just doesn't even make sense given their intentions to reduce the potency of the CP system and bring dmg down.

Kinda sad to see it even implemented. What's the point of increasing the diminishing returns of the other stars to give us a new dmg orientated star to put those lost points into?

I don't think it was stated anywhere that it is their intention to bring damage down. Perhaps you are confusing it with their intention to nerf sustain from CPs. They reduced the effectiveness of elemental expert and the stamina one in order to move power from it to other CP passives.

Didaco

Goshua wrote: »

Didaco wrote: »

What about resto/lightning staff heavy attacks?

Staff expert. Physical Weapon Expert is the melee equivalent.

@Goshua

No I mean, which one between Master-At-Arms and Thaumaturge affects them?

Or are they treated like Jabs/ Sweeps?

Goshua

Didaco wrote: »

Goshua wrote: »

Didaco wrote: »

What about resto/lightning staff heavy attacks?

Staff expert. Physical Weapon Expert is the melee equivalent.

@Goshua

No I mean, which one between Master-At-Arms and Thaumaturge affects them?

Or are they treated like Jabs/ Sweeps?

Neither. Light and heavy attacks are boosted by Staff Expert, always has (no change with 3.0)

Beardimus

Well think the OP asked a good question as damn there must be 20 separate answers on This thread!!!!

A full list might help us all ZOS!

Kadoozy

Sizaansil wrote: »

Just tested it and Master-at-Arms increases the damage of :
- Puncturing Sweep
- Radial Sweep (Initial Damage & DoT)
- Nova
- Sun Fire (Initial Damage & DoT)
- Eye of the Storm
- Wall of Elements
- Elemental Touch (Initial Damage & DoT)
- Meteor (Initial Damage & DoT)
- Mystic Orb
- and more I couldn't test because I don't have enough time

(Un)Surprisingly, it doesn't increase Radiant Oppression's damage.
Currently writing a ticket.

@ZOS_GinaBruno

Well it should increase radial sweeps initial hit as well as meteors at the least. They do a base direct damage attack followed by a dot.

I dont think the dot should be increased however unless there is no way to seperate the two damages.

Sizaansil

I totally agree. However I'm pretty sure Thaumaturge already increases the direct damage of that kind of ability (if anyone can confirm), and that bothers me ^^

Lum1on

Ashamray wrote: »

DPShiro wrote: »

I'm guessing it's bugged at the moment since so many weird skills are affected.

And Sweeps is not Direct or DoT, it's a channel.

is it?
All channels are DoT, but not all DoT are channels -_-

Wrong. If all channels are DoT then you're saying that Dark flare is a DoT? No it's not.

EDIT: Sorry, remembered Dark flare was listed as a channeled ability but it wasn't.

Ashamray

Lum1on wrote: »

Ashamray wrote: »

DPShiro wrote: »

I'm guessing it's bugged at the moment since so many weird skills are affected.

And Sweeps is not Direct or DoT, it's a channel.

is it?
All channels are DoT, but not all DoT are channels -_-

Wrong. If all channels are DoT then you're saying that Dark flare is a DoT? No it's not.

EDIT: Sorry, remembered Dark flare was listed as a channeled ability but it wasn't.

Yeah, it is a cast time ability. it's kinda another category (that is buffed by some special sets for both channels and cast time though)

GunsFireFreedom

Posted to wrong forum. This is an edit.

olsborg

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Non-DoT damage; which is why it's confusing that Jabs is increased by it. Apparently Jabs is a DoT, and a non-DoT at the same time. Since it benefits from both Master of Arms and Thaurmaturge.

Atleast jabs will be strong then, ups, why did we say that, because now ZOS will nerf it lol, they sure hate stamplars.

Sizaansil

Just an up to say that it seems to have been fixed with the v3.0.1 PTS update.
The Tooltip values are still wrong (ticket sent) but the value obtained are correct.
The way it seems to work now is that Master-at-Arms increases direct damage and only the initial damage of skills like Sun Fire, Meteor, ....
I didn't test it for every single skill though so there is a chance of having a few abilities still bugged.
Fix seems to have worked, except for the tooltip.

Goshua

Sizaansil wrote: »

Just an up to say that it seems to have been fixed with the v3.0.1 PTS update.
The Tooltip values are still wrong (ticket sent) but the value obtained are correct.
The way it seems to work now is that Master-at-Arms increases direct damage and only the initial damage of skills like Sun Fire, Meteor, ....
I didn't test it for every single skill though so there is a chance of having a few abilities still bugged.
Fix seems to have worked, except for the tooltip.

Thanks for your input. I initially thought it was for stamina attacks only.
I haven't played anything other than have a look at BG's so no CP anyway.

Joy_Division

Mojmir wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Sizaansil wrote: »

Just tested it and Master-at-Arms increases the damage of :
- Puncturing Sweep
- Radial Sweep (Initial Damage & DoT)
- Nova
- Sun Fire (Initial Damage & DoT)
- Eye of the Storm
- Wall of Elements
- Elemental Touch (Initial Damage & DoT)
- Meteor (Initial Damage & DoT)
- Mystic Orb
- and more I couldn't test because I don't have enough time

(Un)Surprisingly, it doesn't increase Radiant Oppression's damage.
Currently writing a ticket.

@ZOS_GinaBruno

Oh god it increases destro ult?.....

Oh no....

LOL, PVP just grew a new tumor

Better invest in Ironclad!

Minno

Joy_Division wrote: »

Mojmir wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Sizaansil wrote: »

Just tested it and Master-at-Arms increases the damage of :
- Puncturing Sweep
- Radial Sweep (Initial Damage & DoT)
- Nova
- Sun Fire (Initial Damage & DoT)
- Eye of the Storm
- Wall of Elements
- Elemental Touch (Initial Damage & DoT)
- Meteor (Initial Damage & DoT)
- Mystic Orb
- and more I couldn't test because I don't have enough time

(Un)Surprisingly, it doesn't increase Radiant Oppression's damage.
Currently writing a ticket.

@ZOS_GinaBruno

Oh god it increases destro ult?.....

Oh no....

LOL, PVP just grew a new tumor

Better invest in Ironclad!

54 points gets you 20% last I checked. So you can split 100 across two trees, and negate two blue dmg stars.

Lynx7386

Single target, non dot damage. Area effect attacks usually don't count as direct damage.

Integral1900 wrote: »

Anything that involves a weapon physically contacting a target, so staffs don't count, really looking forward to these changes

You're way off there.

Force pulse, elemental clench, and light/heavy staff attacks all cause direct damage

elium85

Has anyone test if Puncturing Sweeps still counts as direct damage?

Lum1on

Yes, Puncturing strikes and its morphs is increased by Master-at-arms but also reduced by Ironclad. Although, I don't think that's supposed to be so. Anyways...

Tomg999

Beardimus wrote: »

Well think the OP asked a good question as damn there must be 20 separate answers on This thread!!!!

Most of them starting with "you don't know what you're talking about!" type comments.

Invincible

Why do people keep tagging admins for information lol. What in the history of eso leads you to believe they have any idea how their own game works?

Ashamray

Lum1on wrote: »

Yes, Puncturing strikes and its morphs is increased by Master-at-arms but also reduced by Ironclad. Although, I don't think that's supposed to be so. Anyways...

When I tested it on PTS (3.0.2, if I'm not mistaken), MaA didn't work with Sweeps.

Sizaansil

I tested in PTS v3.0.4 and I found the same. MaA was not affecting it.

F7sus4

Ashamray wrote: »

There are only 2 categories: Direct damage and Damage over time.

Damage over time is anything that deals damage over a set period of time (duh) including channels (i.e. Jabs, Jesus Beam, Soul Assault, Rapid Strikes, Endless hail, Liquid lightning, Wall of Elements). Basically lingering damage.

Direct damage is basically the opposite. Its immediate damage (i.e. Force Pulse, Pulsar, Funnel Health, Whip, Sap Essence, Steel Tornado) but can include a cast time (i.e. Dizzy Swing, hard cast Frags, Dark Flare). All initial hits of damage over time are always direct damage (first tick of Liquid Lightning, WoE, Caltrops, Rending Slashes, Jabs, Rapids Strikes)

Both of these categories can be AOE or ST.

Funny Degree of mess is rising

Therefore I raise a question about Ironclad which is meant to be % reduction from Direct Damage attacks and how incosistently does it work with PvE mobs/bosses. Tested it and so far the patterns from examples above didn't really add up. Especially with mobs/bosses "special attacks" which felt utterly random to any mentioned rule here. So is it meant to work properly only in PvP or what's the deal? Any further insight guys?