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What is classified as "direct damage' re: Master-at-Arms

  • Goshua
    Goshua
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    Didaco wrote: »
    What about resto/lightning staff heavy attacks?

    Staff expert. Physical Weapon Expert is the melee equivalent.
  • psychotic13
    psychotic13
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    Would also like clarification on this

    @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_KaiSchober
  • Dracane
    Dracane
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    ✭✭✭✭
    Omg so much wrong information
    Direct damage is EVERYTHING that delivers damage with a single hit. Ranged attacks and magic included, even daedric curse for example. It's not a melee exclusive thing.
    Auri-El is my lord,
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  • Ashamray
    Ashamray
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Dracane wrote: »
    Omg so much wrong information
    Direct damage is EVERYTHING that delivers damage with a single hit. Ranged attacks and magic included, even daedric curse for example. It's not a melee exclusive thing.

    Not true, I suppose.
    Bloodthorn set doesn't proc off Jabs, Radiant, initial hit of Backlash (which looks like absolutely direct damage).
    Zenimax should explain damage types really like they explained animation cancel with diagrams. Now everything is a mess. We have so many different categories: projectiles of 4 types, beam, channels, DoTs, aoe's, direct, cast-time...
    @ZOS_GinaBruno
    Edited by Ashamray on April 20, 2017 1:33PM
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  • DPShiro
    DPShiro
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'm guessing it's bugged at the moment since so many weird skills are affected.

    And Sweeps is not Direct or DoT, it's a channel.
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  • Ashamray
    Ashamray
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    DPShiro wrote: »
    I'm guessing it's bugged at the moment since so many weird skills are affected.

    And Sweeps is not Direct or DoT, it's a channel.

    is it?
    All channels are DoT, but not all DoT are channels -_-
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  • Dracane
    Dracane
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    Ashamray wrote: »
    Dracane wrote: »
    Omg so much wrong information
    Direct damage is EVERYTHING that delivers damage with a single hit. Ranged attacks and magic included, even daedric curse for example. It's not a melee exclusive thing.

    Not true, I suppose.
    Bloodthorn set doesn't proc off Jabs, Radiant, initial hit of Backlash (which looks like absolutely direct damage).
    Zenimax should explain damage types really like they explained animation cancel with diagrams. Now everything is a mess. We have so many different categories: projectiles of 4 types, beam, channels, DoTs, aoe's, direct, cast-time...
    @ZOS_GinaBruno

    Jabs is and has always been, a channel aka a damage over time effect as considered by the game engine.
    Edited by Dracane on April 20, 2017 1:45PM
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  • DPShiro
    DPShiro
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Ashamray wrote: »
    DPShiro wrote: »
    I'm guessing it's bugged at the moment since so many weird skills are affected.

    And Sweeps is not Direct or DoT, it's a channel.

    is it?
    All channels are DoT, but not all DoT are channels -_-

    I believe it is.
    @Asayre can probably enlighten us

    Edit: but I'm 100% sure it's bugged atm, since it's affecting WoE and LL etc.
    Edited by DPShiro on April 20, 2017 1:46PM
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  • Ashamray
    Ashamray
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Dracane wrote: »
    Ashamray wrote: »
    Dracane wrote: »
    Omg so much wrong information
    Direct damage is EVERYTHING that delivers damage with a single hit. Ranged attacks and magic included, even daedric curse for example. It's not a melee exclusive thing.

    Not true, I suppose.
    Bloodthorn set doesn't proc off Jabs, Radiant, initial hit of Backlash (which looks like absolutely direct damage).
    Zenimax should explain damage types really like they explained animation cancel with diagrams. Now everything is a mess. We have so many different categories: projectiles of 4 types, beam, channels, DoTs, aoe's, direct, cast-time...
    @ZOS_GinaBruno

    Jabs is and has always been, a channel aka a damage over time effect as considered by the game engine.

    I know, but people here claim it scales of this CP too.
    Your curse is, I guess, similar to Backlash and shouldn't get benefit from Master-at-Arms but should from Thaumaturgy. Meanwhile both Curse and Backlash do a single, direct delayed damage. That's why I really want devs to shed the light on this muddy CP.
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  • Ashamray
    Ashamray
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    There are only 2 categories: Direct damage and Damage over time.

    Damage over time is anything that deals damage over a set period of time (duh) including channels (i.e. Jabs, Jesus Beam, Soul Assault, Rapid Strikes, Endless hail, Liquid lightning, Wall of Elements). Basically lingering damage.

    Direct damage is basically the opposite. Its immediate damage (i.e. Force Pulse, Pulsar, Funnel Health, Whip, Sap Essence, Steel Tornado) but can include a cast time (i.e. Dizzy Swing, hard cast Frags, Dark Flare). All initial hits of damage over time are always direct damage (first tick of Liquid Lightning, WoE, Caltrops, Rending Slashes, Jabs, Rapids Strikes)

    Both of these categories can be AOE or ST.

    I suck at explaining stuff

    If it was like you said, first tick of aoe's would procc Bloodthorn set bonus.
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  • NightbladeMechanics
    NightbladeMechanics
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    ✭✭
    Direct damage is any damage minus ground aoes or dot ticks after the first.

    The initial impact of tether, sap essence, surprise attack, Grim focus, curse, the initial and execute portions of endless fury, the initial impact on dawnbreaker, the initial impact on burning embers, the initial impact on flame reach...those are all direct damage. Apparently every tick of jabs is both direct damage and a dot...lol

    Basically everything is direct damage unless it's a lingering aoe or dot effect like wall of elements, destro ult, nova, ticks after the first of vamp bane, burning embers, cripple, etc.

    Master at arms will be a very strong star and will be as core to burst builds as Mighty or ele expert.
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  • Izaki
    Izaki
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    Ashamray wrote: »
    There are only 2 categories: Direct damage and Damage over time.

    Damage over time is anything that deals damage over a set period of time (duh) including channels (i.e. Jabs, Jesus Beam, Soul Assault, Rapid Strikes, Endless hail, Liquid lightning, Wall of Elements). Basically lingering damage.

    Direct damage is basically the opposite. Its immediate damage (i.e. Force Pulse, Pulsar, Funnel Health, Whip, Sap Essence, Steel Tornado) but can include a cast time (i.e. Dizzy Swing, hard cast Frags, Dark Flare). All initial hits of damage over time are always direct damage (first tick of Liquid Lightning, WoE, Caltrops, Rending Slashes, Jabs, Rapids Strikes)

    Both of these categories can be AOE or ST.

    I suck at explaining stuff

    If it was like you said, first tick of aoe's would procc Bloodthorn set bonus.

    Then the set is bugged, because all of those things I mentionned proc either Selene or Scathing Mage.
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  • Ashamray
    Ashamray
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Ashamray wrote: »
    There are only 2 categories: Direct damage and Damage over time.

    Damage over time is anything that deals damage over a set period of time (duh) including channels (i.e. Jabs, Jesus Beam, Soul Assault, Rapid Strikes, Endless hail, Liquid lightning, Wall of Elements). Basically lingering damage.

    Direct damage is basically the opposite. Its immediate damage (i.e. Force Pulse, Pulsar, Funnel Health, Whip, Sap Essence, Steel Tornado) but can include a cast time (i.e. Dizzy Swing, hard cast Frags, Dark Flare). All initial hits of damage over time are always direct damage (first tick of Liquid Lightning, WoE, Caltrops, Rending Slashes, Jabs, Rapids Strikes)

    Both of these categories can be AOE or ST.

    I suck at explaining stuff

    If it was like you said, first tick of aoe's would procc Bloodthorn set bonus.

    Then the set is bugged, because all of those things I mentionned proc either Selene or Scathing Mage.

    Funny ;) Degree of mess is rising
    Edited by Ashamray on April 20, 2017 2:29PM
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  • Izaki
    Izaki
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    Ashamray wrote: »
    Ashamray wrote: »
    There are only 2 categories: Direct damage and Damage over time.

    Damage over time is anything that deals damage over a set period of time (duh) including channels (i.e. Jabs, Jesus Beam, Soul Assault, Rapid Strikes, Endless hail, Liquid lightning, Wall of Elements). Basically lingering damage.

    Direct damage is basically the opposite. Its immediate damage (i.e. Force Pulse, Pulsar, Funnel Health, Whip, Sap Essence, Steel Tornado) but can include a cast time (i.e. Dizzy Swing, hard cast Frags, Dark Flare). All initial hits of damage over time are always direct damage (first tick of Liquid Lightning, WoE, Caltrops, Rending Slashes, Jabs, Rapids Strikes)

    Both of these categories can be AOE or ST.

    I suck at explaining stuff

    If it was like you said, first tick of aoe's would procc Bloodthorn set bonus.

    Then the set is bugged, because all of those things I mentionned proc either Selene or Scathing Mage.

    Funny ;) Degree of mess is rising

    Does it really surprise you? :lol:
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  • Ashamray
    Ashamray
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Ashamray wrote: »
    Ashamray wrote: »
    There are only 2 categories: Direct damage and Damage over time.

    Damage over time is anything that deals damage over a set period of time (duh) including channels (i.e. Jabs, Jesus Beam, Soul Assault, Rapid Strikes, Endless hail, Liquid lightning, Wall of Elements). Basically lingering damage.

    Direct damage is basically the opposite. Its immediate damage (i.e. Force Pulse, Pulsar, Funnel Health, Whip, Sap Essence, Steel Tornado) but can include a cast time (i.e. Dizzy Swing, hard cast Frags, Dark Flare). All initial hits of damage over time are always direct damage (first tick of Liquid Lightning, WoE, Caltrops, Rending Slashes, Jabs, Rapids Strikes)

    Both of these categories can be AOE or ST.

    I suck at explaining stuff

    If it was like you said, first tick of aoe's would procc Bloodthorn set bonus.

    Then the set is bugged, because all of those things I mentionned proc either Selene or Scathing Mage.

    Funny ;) Degree of mess is rising

    Does it really surprise you? :lol:

    I keep my best hopes in my heart. Zos won't crash it so easily!
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  • Izaki
    Izaki
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    Ashamray wrote: »
    Ashamray wrote: »
    Ashamray wrote: »
    There are only 2 categories: Direct damage and Damage over time.

    Damage over time is anything that deals damage over a set period of time (duh) including channels (i.e. Jabs, Jesus Beam, Soul Assault, Rapid Strikes, Endless hail, Liquid lightning, Wall of Elements). Basically lingering damage.

    Direct damage is basically the opposite. Its immediate damage (i.e. Force Pulse, Pulsar, Funnel Health, Whip, Sap Essence, Steel Tornado) but can include a cast time (i.e. Dizzy Swing, hard cast Frags, Dark Flare). All initial hits of damage over time are always direct damage (first tick of Liquid Lightning, WoE, Caltrops, Rending Slashes, Jabs, Rapids Strikes)

    Both of these categories can be AOE or ST.

    I suck at explaining stuff

    If it was like you said, first tick of aoe's would procc Bloodthorn set bonus.

    Then the set is bugged, because all of those things I mentionned proc either Selene or Scathing Mage.

    Funny ;) Degree of mess is rising

    Does it really surprise you? :lol:

    I keep my best hopes in my heart. Zos won't crash it so easily!

    Well at least you found a bug and its what we are kinda here for! Now we just have to wait for ZOS to fix it. Cause I mean Twisting Path not scaling with Thaumaturge for about a year now is getting old.
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  • Dracane
    Dracane
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    Ashamray wrote: »
    Dracane wrote: »
    Ashamray wrote: »
    Dracane wrote: »
    Omg so much wrong information
    Direct damage is EVERYTHING that delivers damage with a single hit. Ranged attacks and magic included, even daedric curse for example. It's not a melee exclusive thing.

    Not true, I suppose.
    Bloodthorn set doesn't proc off Jabs, Radiant, initial hit of Backlash (which looks like absolutely direct damage).
    Zenimax should explain damage types really like they explained animation cancel with diagrams. Now everything is a mess. We have so many different categories: projectiles of 4 types, beam, channels, DoTs, aoe's, direct, cast-time...
    @ZOS_GinaBruno

    Jabs is and has always been, a channel aka a damage over time effect as considered by the game engine.

    I know, but people here claim it scales of this CP too.
    Your curse is, I guess, similar to Backlash and shouldn't get benefit from Master-at-Arms but should from Thaumaturgy. Meanwhile both Curse and Backlash do a single, direct delayed damage. That's why I really want devs to shed the light on this muddy CP.

    They made it so, that curse is no longer a damage over time effect. (so that it doesn't scale with traumaturge)
    I too think it should be a dot. But since they changed that a few updates ago, I assume it is supposed to be a direct hit now.
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  • Xvorg
    Xvorg
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    ✭✭
    Goshua wrote: »
    So class skills are classed as direct damage even magicka based? eg first hit of vampires bane, dark flare.

    It was mentioned above 'weapon physically contacting a target' is that not a fact? I am confused lol

    NBs have a skill called veiled strike, that's direct dmg. They can either morph it into surprise attack (direct dmg physical) or Concealed weapon (direct dmg magical). They are affected by Master-at-arms

    Templars have a skill called puncturing strikes, that's a dot. They cai either morph it into bitting jabs (doT physical) or puncturing sweep (dot magical). They are affected by Thaumaturge
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  • Grumble_and_Grunt
    Grumble_and_Grunt
    ✭✭✭✭
    The introduction of this star just doesn't even make sense given their intentions to reduce the potency of the CP system and bring dmg down.

    Kinda sad to see it even implemented. What's the point of increasing the diminishing returns of the other stars to give us a new dmg orientated star to put those lost points into?

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  • Xvorg
    Xvorg
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    The introduction of this star just doesn't even make sense given their intentions to reduce the potency of the CP system and bring dmg down.

    Kinda sad to see it even implemented. What's the point of increasing the diminishing returns of the other stars to give us a new dmg orientated star to put those lost points into?

    I think similar. With the previous set up, DoTs were in a great spot to compete against burst dmg. Now DoTs will be way weaker.
    Sarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly

    I was born with the wrong sign
    In the wrong house
    With the wrong ascendancy
    I took the wrong road
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    On the wrong day of the wrong week
    Used the wrong method with the wrong technique
  • Dracane
    Dracane
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭
    The introduction of this star just doesn't even make sense given their intentions to reduce the potency of the CP system and bring dmg down.

    Kinda sad to see it even implemented. What's the point of increasing the diminishing returns of the other stars to give us a new dmg orientated star to put those lost points into?

    It's only a damage increase in pve, which makes sense considering that they reduced sustain.
    And in pvp, nothing changes at all, because everyone can invest in Ironclad to counter master at arms and everyone will do so.

    If I would spend 50 points in elemental expert and master at arms and if my opponent hast 50 into the counter stars ironclad and elemental defender, I would still deal 4% less damage than on live. But since I could invest more into spell erosion to get like 2 k more pen, I could compensate these 4%. End of the story: Damage in pvp remains the same on the first glance and is greatly reduced on the 2nd, because we all have to invest more into sustain.
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  • makreth
    makreth
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    Direct damage is any damage minus ground aoes or dot ticks after the first.

    Ground aoes (non-Dot) are direct damage as well and should be included in this CP. They are not included in Thaumaturge.

    ok you probably meant the ground dot aoes (persisting, with duration) and not the ground targeted aoes (the non-dot ones). I see that now but it needs clarifications when refered to those.
    Edited by makreth on April 20, 2017 3:19PM
  • SturgeHammer
    SturgeHammer
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    ZOS should really get some symbology to go on to the tool tips to show the damage types, similar to how they have symbols for the role indicators on abilities like puncture.
    First-in-Line - Swings-for-Lethal
    Green-Thumb - Scale-Factor
    Hist-Tree-Major - A-Late-One
    Needs-Some-Help - Dead-Last
  • Izaki
    Izaki
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    ✭✭
    Anything that involves a weapon physically contacting a target, so staffs don't count, really looking forward to these changes :)

    @Integral1900 Please change that comment cause its just really false and people seem to be getting confused because of it :)
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  • Sizaansil
    Sizaansil
    ✭✭
    Just tested it and Master-at-Arms increases the damage of :
    - Puncturing Sweep
    - Radial Sweep (Initial Damage & DoT)
    - Nova
    - Sun Fire (Initial Damage & DoT)
    - Eye of the Storm
    - Wall of Elements
    - Elemental Touch (Initial Damage & DoT)
    - Meteor (Initial Damage & DoT)
    - Mystic Orb
    - and more I couldn't test because I don't have enough time :D

    (Un)Surprisingly, it doesn't increase Radiant Oppression's damage.
    Currently writing a ticket.

    @ZOS_GinaBruno
    Edited by Sizaansil on April 20, 2017 3:29PM
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  • makreth
    makreth
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Sizaansil wrote: »
    Just tested it and Master-at-Arms increases the damage of :
    - Puncturing Sweep
    - Radial Sweep (Initial Damage & DoT)
    - Nova
    - Sun Fire (Initial Damage & DoT)
    - Eye of the Storm
    - Wall of Elements
    - Elemental Touch (Initial Damage & DoT)
    - Meteor (Initial Damage & DoT)
    - Mystic Orb
    - and more I couldn't test because I don't have enough time :D

    (Un)Surprisingly, it doesn't increase Radiant Oppression's damage.
    Currently writing a ticket.

    @ZOS_GinaBruno

    obviously its broken...
  • Malamar1229
    Malamar1229
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    I am pretty sure it means single target dmg...aka the opposite of AOE
  • Xvorg
    Xvorg
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    makreth wrote: »
    Sizaansil wrote: »
    Just tested it and Master-at-Arms increases the damage of :
    - Puncturing Sweep
    - Radial Sweep (Initial Damage & DoT)
    - Nova
    - Sun Fire (Initial Damage & DoT)
    - Eye of the Storm
    - Wall of Elements
    - Elemental Touch (Initial Damage & DoT)
    - Meteor (Initial Damage & DoT)
    - Mystic Orb
    - and more I couldn't test because I don't have enough time :D

    (Un)Surprisingly, it doesn't increase Radiant Oppression's damage.
    Currently writing a ticket.

    @ZOS_GinaBruno

    obviously its broken...

    and will be broken when going live...

    Sarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly

    I was born with the wrong sign
    In the wrong house
    With the wrong ascendancy
    I took the wrong road
    That led to the wrong tendencies
    I was in the wrong place at the wrong time
    For the wrong reason and the wrong rhyme
    On the wrong day of the wrong week
    Used the wrong method with the wrong technique
  • sly007
    sly007
    ✭✭✭✭
    Dracane wrote: »
    Ashamray wrote: »
    Dracane wrote: »
    Omg so much wrong information
    Direct damage is EVERYTHING that delivers damage with a single hit. Ranged attacks and magic included, even daedric curse for example. It's not a melee exclusive thing.

    Not true, I suppose.
    Bloodthorn set doesn't proc off Jabs, Radiant, initial hit of Backlash (which looks like absolutely direct damage).
    Zenimax should explain damage types really like they explained animation cancel with diagrams. Now everything is a mess. We have so many different categories: projectiles of 4 types, beam, channels, DoTs, aoe's, direct, cast-time...
    @ZOS_GinaBruno

    Jabs is and has always been, a channel aka a damage over time effect as considered by the game engine.

    Jabs is also considered direct damage because it procs selene.
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