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Sorcs and Favoritism
-
Draqone✭✭✭✭My comment was a response to a lot of the ridiculous comments of how NB were nerfs to the ground or how Sorc DPS over performs.
I gotta ask, your friend got 46k without Major Fracture? That'd actually be pretty impressive, unless I missed something, not used to having no buff trackers.
Anyway... the nightblade problem is that in a trial setting many of their tools are already provided by other players (tank/healer). The tools they lack - range and survivibility - can not be provided by the support.
The one thing nightblades had going for them was the easy resource management which meant they didn't really require healer assistance in that aspect. Now even that is gone.
I am looking forward to today's patch and to see how the Blade Cloak buff will affect stamina in trials.ESO Balance:
“All skills are equal, but some skills are more equal than others.”2 -
Mumyo✭✭✭✭✭IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »
Pardon my lack of clarity. I meant that no matter the shield strength, even if the base damage of the attack is totally absorbed by the shield, the extra crit damage is applied to health.What if shields could not take crit damage, but every time an attack would have been a crit, the leftover damage that could have been is instead applied to the Sorc's health pool and is mitigated by impen, armor, etc. 100% of the crit damage bleeds through, or 75% or what have you.
I do think that shields being uncrittable is fine, but pose this suggestion to those who think such a feature of shielding is too much.
@Tonturri
I think this is already somewhat implemented, unless they changed it some time ago, so it wouldn't change anything.
If the amount of damage your attack deals is greater than the remainder of the shield, then any leftover critical damage will be applied, mitigated by armor and resistances.
Extreme example - say you manage a 50k shield stack. Someone hits you for 10k damage. It crit, so 5k damage is applied to the sorc's health. Shield is still there - now at 40k - but the sorc took 5k damage.
How about... not?
If you want to do that, why not allow crit damage to completely bypass block and all armor mitigation?
Then all of us can die in a couple of hits. And it's a stupid idea.
@Minalan
Allowing only the crit damage through the shield is not at all equivalent to entirely removing resistances. Indeed, this suggestion has far more counterplay in favor of the sorc than does reducing shield duration, shield strength, or increasing the cost of shields.
"Why not allow crit damage to completely bypass block and all armor mitigation?" Because shields have a special relationship to critical damage for which there is no special counter. They are 100% resistant to crit damage. Even the crit reduction of Impen and the Resistant CP star can be countered by the Shadow mundus and the Precise Strikes CP star.
Stopped reading after the first line. Sorcs have NO resistances under that shield. Light armor. Sharpened weapons. Thanks. It is the same thing.
@Minalan
Go back and read carefully every word I wrote. I responded to you in very good faith and you are lucky to have thoughts like this out there, rather than the nerf hammer that will otherwise fall upon your class if you continue stonewalling discussion like this.
Sorcs absolutely have resistance under shields. Impen armor--which need not be light to deal damage--as well as streak, pets, negate, and the highest burst damage in the game.
Sorry I don't care about every 'brilliant' nerf sorc idea from every fool who doesn't know the first thing about the game.
So instead I'll make fun:
LOL light armor mitigation with sharpened weapons. Basic math is so hard.
LOL streak is a mitigation tool.
LOL negate as a defensive CD, it's an ultimate.
I feel so lucky!
@Minalan
Then you are beneath consideration, and everyone crying for sorc nerfs has nothing to fear from you.
/thread.
EDIT: Oh and by the way
1. Sharpened weapons can be mitigated with heavy armor or points in the resistance CP star for Light Armor.
2. Streak mitigates damage by removing you from it and stunning your attacker, similar to roll dodge but much more effective.
3. Negate is absolutely a valid defense, as is Veil of Blades for nightblades. Their status as ultimates does not diminish that fact.
Did I really just read that Streak is more effective than Roll Dodge? What kinda drugs you taking?
actually there arent many things u can dodge anymore.4 -
Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »
Pardon my lack of clarity. I meant that no matter the shield strength, even if the base damage of the attack is totally absorbed by the shield, the extra crit damage is applied to health.What if shields could not take crit damage, but every time an attack would have been a crit, the leftover damage that could have been is instead applied to the Sorc's health pool and is mitigated by impen, armor, etc. 100% of the crit damage bleeds through, or 75% or what have you.
I do think that shields being uncrittable is fine, but pose this suggestion to those who think such a feature of shielding is too much.
@Tonturri
I think this is already somewhat implemented, unless they changed it some time ago, so it wouldn't change anything.
If the amount of damage your attack deals is greater than the remainder of the shield, then any leftover critical damage will be applied, mitigated by armor and resistances.
Extreme example - say you manage a 50k shield stack. Someone hits you for 10k damage. It crit, so 5k damage is applied to the sorc's health. Shield is still there - now at 40k - but the sorc took 5k damage.
How about... not?
If you want to do that, why not allow crit damage to completely bypass block and all armor mitigation?
Then all of us can die in a couple of hits. And it's a stupid idea.
@Minalan
Allowing only the crit damage through the shield is not at all equivalent to entirely removing resistances. Indeed, this suggestion has far more counterplay in favor of the sorc than does reducing shield duration, shield strength, or increasing the cost of shields.
"Why not allow crit damage to completely bypass block and all armor mitigation?" Because shields have a special relationship to critical damage for which there is no special counter. They are 100% resistant to crit damage. Even the crit reduction of Impen and the Resistant CP star can be countered by the Shadow mundus and the Precise Strikes CP star.
Stopped reading after the first line. Sorcs have NO resistances under that shield. Light armor. Sharpened weapons. Thanks. It is the same thing.
@Minalan
Go back and read carefully every word I wrote. I responded to you in very good faith and you are lucky to have thoughts like this out there, rather than the nerf hammer that will otherwise fall upon your class if you continue stonewalling discussion like this.
Sorcs absolutely have resistance under shields. Impen armor--which need not be light to deal damage--as well as streak, pets, negate, and the highest burst damage in the game.
Sorry I don't care about every 'brilliant' nerf sorc idea from every fool who doesn't know the first thing about the game.
So instead I'll make fun:
LOL light armor mitigation with sharpened weapons. Basic math is so hard.
LOL streak is a mitigation tool.
LOL negate as a defensive CD, it's an ultimate.
I feel so lucky!
@Minalan
Then you are beneath consideration, and everyone crying for sorc nerfs has nothing to fear from you.
/thread.
EDIT: Oh and by the way
1. Sharpened weapons can be mitigated with heavy armor or points in the resistance CP star for Light Armor.
2. Streak mitigates damage by removing you from it and stunning your attacker, similar to roll dodge but much more effective.
3. Negate is absolutely a valid defense, as is Veil of Blades for nightblades. Their status as ultimates does not diminish that fact.
Did I really just read that Streak is more effective than Roll Dodge? What kinda drugs you taking?
actually there arent many things u can dodge anymore.
And you think *streak* prevents that damage?
The ball of lightning morph might catch a magicka projectile or two (hint: not arrows) in the two seconds the ball is up - IF you time it perfect.
Dodge however prevents just about anything that's not an AOE or ultimate.0 -
Aquanova✭✭✭✭✭What's wrong with just using harness or dampened? Answer....nothing.
I don't understand why this is such a hard concept to grasp. Every other class has their own native defensive mechanics that are parallels to Hardened Ward. Primarily, they got potent heals. Which can be fired off under harness. DKs have a reflect and big heals, templars have a purge and big heals, and nbs have a cloak and steady heals. All of these can be 'stacked' with the shield. None of those other classes "just" use harness of dampened.
You fundamentally do not understand how sorcerer works relative to these other classes.
Reflect from scales? Are you serious? Try using it. 4 Projectile attacks get reflected including invisible bow light attacks which makes it seem as if you only reflected 2. On my Sorc I can stack my shields and literally mitigate ALL incoming damage if my shields are strongenough, doesn't have a limit. Is that a fair comparison to you?
As for heals, I already said which skills a Sorc has at their disposal and even left 1 out, dark deal/exchange. Yeah, it gives a heal too but your gonna say " No one uses that" or "its useless".Your just arguing from a stand point of "it doesn't fit into the Sorc meta play style" but you have 3Well, looks like the devs are completely neglecting the Sorc issue as far as PvP is concerned. Shields are still insane and Dark Deal is still a ridiculous ability. Both Mag and Stam Sorcs are way better than their respective counterparts.
They aren't. They simply understand the kind of players who complain about sorcs, and how bad they are. You can't fix incompetence with balance changes.
Not gonna drop any names, but having fought against several of the vocal sorc nay sayers the past few weeks, my theories are so confirmed. I can see why you guys would hate the class so much. But your problems are personal issues, not balance concerns.
You compare dks scales and nb cloak to ward?????? It's you who completely doesn't understand Sorc and their relationship to the the other classes.
A typical biased Sorc who doesn't want to play on an even playing field. LMFAO at you and ZOS! for their idea of balance
NA/PC7 -
Chilly-McFreeze✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭What's wrong with just using harness or dampened? Answer....nothing.
I don't understand why this is such a hard concept to grasp. Every other class has their own native defensive mechanics that are parallels to Hardened Ward. Primarily, they got potent heals. Which can be fired off under harness. DKs have a reflect and big heals, templars have a purge and big heals, and nbs have a cloak and steady heals. All of these can be 'stacked' with the shield. None of those other classes "just" use harness of dampened.
You fundamentally do not understand how sorcerer works relative to these other classes.
Reflect from scales? Are you serious? Try using it. 4 Projectile attacks get reflected including invisible bow light attacks which makes it seem as if you only reflected 2. On my Sorc I can stack my shields and literally mitigate ALL incoming damage if my shields are strongenough, doesn't have a limit. Is that a fair comparison to you?
As for heals, I already said which skills a Sorc has at their disposal and even left 1 out, dark deal/exchange. Yeah, it gives a heal too but your gonna say " No one uses that" or "its useless".Your just arguing from a stand point of "it doesn't fit into the Sorc meta play style" but you have 3Well, looks like the devs are completely neglecting the Sorc issue as far as PvP is concerned. Shields are still insane and Dark Deal is still a ridiculous ability. Both Mag and Stam Sorcs are way better than their respective counterparts.
They aren't. They simply understand the kind of players who complain about sorcs, and how bad they are. You can't fix incompetence with balance changes.
Not gonna drop any names, but having fought against several of the vocal sorc nay sayers the past few weeks, my theories are so confirmed. I can see why you guys would hate the class so much. But your problems are personal issues, not balance concerns.
You compare dks scales and nb cloak to ward?????? It's you who completely doesn't understand Sorc and their relationship to the the other classes.
A typical biased Sorc who doesn't want to play on an even playing field. LMFAO at you and ZOS! for their idea of balance
Lol, what an argument. At least shields don't throw your skills back at you, don't they?
Yes, sorcs have three heals. One from the pet that costs you 2 bar slots, one proccing on crit dmg (not realy on demand) and d/d, that 1.2s interruptable channel.
Scales, cloak, ward - 3 different skills, 3 different concepts. DK scales can *** up a caster, cloak needs a tune up to be more reliable but it deprives you from all direct dmg, shields are strong in 1v1 but looses their worth fast in Xv1 situations. Cloak and dodge roll doesn't. Granted, scales only reflect 4 projectiles.
I understand where this sorc hate train comes from. DK, NB and templars got *** up and you are angry that sorcs recieved more indirect nerfs.
If someone scratches my car I wouldn't feel better if my neighbors car get scratched also. Don't know about you.1 -
Vosital✭✭✭✭Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »What's wrong with just using harness or dampened? Answer....nothing.
I don't understand why this is such a hard concept to grasp. Every other class has their own native defensive mechanics that are parallels to Hardened Ward. Primarily, they got potent heals. Which can be fired off under harness. DKs have a reflect and big heals, templars have a purge and big heals, and nbs have a cloak and steady heals. All of these can be 'stacked' with the shield. None of those other classes "just" use harness of dampened.
You fundamentally do not understand how sorcerer works relative to these other classes.
Reflect from scales? Are you serious? Try using it. 4 Projectile attacks get reflected including invisible bow light attacks which makes it seem as if you only reflected 2. On my Sorc I can stack my shields and literally mitigate ALL incoming damage if my shields are strongenough, doesn't have a limit. Is that a fair comparison to you?
As for heals, I already said which skills a Sorc has at their disposal and even left 1 out, dark deal/exchange. Yeah, it gives a heal too but your gonna say " No one uses that" or "its useless".Your just arguing from a stand point of "it doesn't fit into the Sorc meta play style" but you have 3Well, looks like the devs are completely neglecting the Sorc issue as far as PvP is concerned. Shields are still insane and Dark Deal is still a ridiculous ability. Both Mag and Stam Sorcs are way better than their respective counterparts.
They aren't. They simply understand the kind of players who complain about sorcs, and how bad they are. You can't fix incompetence with balance changes.
Not gonna drop any names, but having fought against several of the vocal sorc nay sayers the past few weeks, my theories are so confirmed. I can see why you guys would hate the class so much. But your problems are personal issues, not balance concerns.
You compare dks scales and nb cloak to ward?????? It's you who completely doesn't understand Sorc and their relationship to the the other classes.
A typical biased Sorc who doesn't want to play on an even playing field. LMFAO at you and ZOS! for their idea of balance
Lol, what an argument. At least shields don't throw your skills back at you, don't they?
Yes, sorcs have three heals. One from the pet that costs you 2 bar slots, one proccing on crit dmg (not realy on demand) and d/d, that 1.2s interruptable channel.
Scales, cloak, ward - 3 different skills, 3 different concepts. DK scales can *** up a caster, cloak needs a tune up to be more reliable but it deprives you from all direct dmg, shields are strong in 1v1 but looses their worth fast in Xv1 situations. Cloak and dodge roll doesn't. Granted, scales only reflect 4 projectiles.
I understand where this sorc hate train comes from. DK, NB and templars got *** up and you are angry that sorcs recieved more indirect nerfs.
If someone scratches my car I wouldn't feel better if my neighbors car get scratched also. Don't know about you.
If we're going with the car analogy, here is what it's like even before this patch:
-DKs are a 1996 Toyota with a broken transmission
-NBs and Templars are 2005 Honda Civics
-Sorcs are a brand new Porche
Now with this patch the Toyota and Hondas get in huge accidents and nearly totaled. Meanwhile, the Porche gets a small dent.
5 -
CyrusArya✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭@Aquanova
No, I'm not comparing ward to cloak and wings. I'm saying each class has their own defensive schemes which can be stacked with harness. You can't look at individual skills in a vacuum, but rather gotta appraise classes as a whole. At any rate, it's a moot point. Hardened will never scale with health because that would kill the class, and making hardened not stack with harness is completely against ZOS' design philosophy.
I am biased to my favorite class, but that doesn't mean I don't understand the relationship sorcerer has with other classes. In particular, when fighting other good players. I don't care how hard pugs who cry about sorcs get stomped because as Ive said many times, the game shouldn't be balanced around the incompetent.
You said you have a sorc? Why don't you come duel me like I've offered to many people who think Sorcs are broken. We can see who's idea of class balance and relationships is more off base.0 -
Juhasow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Nightblades are far from being the bottom dps. A friend did 46k dps on a Stamina Nightblade on a 3 million skeleton (with an off balance scenario but no other buff).
You do realise that we are talking about the PTS here, where the Siphoning nerf hits NBs hard...
Not sure what bringing up live scores has to do with this thread, on live sorcs can beat that parse selfbuffed! reaching nearly 50k DPS on the 3 mil skeleton. I don't have a video on hand but just yesterday I saw a selfbuffed 49.5k casually being thrown around in guild chat. *cough* @Juhasow *cough*
On live You can do something over 46k with perfect classic rotation when everything crits perfectly and over 50k with rotation using daedric tombs on skeleton locked in tight space. That doesnt change a fact it's just skeleton parse with lightning staff on offbar and high offballance uptime. 50k I maded on skeleton was because I tested rotation presented by @Vaoh here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnjTGYetGYs
using trick with locking skeleton in tight space so all 3 mines spawn at him.
On PTS the best parse from all builds I tested already was on ....Stam NB around 40k. Leeching strikes cost (988) makes that skill restoring around 3k stamina which is pretty decent. Magsorc DPS on PTS is one of the highest but not unbeatable number 1. Stam nb is atm the build i had the smallest problems with resources on skeleton I ended fight having around 30-40% stamina.2 -
Vaoh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Nightblades are far from being the bottom dps. A friend did 46k dps on a Stamina Nightblade on a 3 million skeleton (with an off balance scenario but no other buff).
You do realise that we are talking about the PTS here, where the Siphoning nerf hits NBs hard...
Not sure what bringing up live scores has to do with this thread, on live sorcs can beat that parse selfbuffed! reaching nearly 50k DPS on the 3 mil skeleton. I don't have a video on hand but just yesterday I saw a selfbuffed 49.5k casually being thrown around in guild chat. *cough* @Juhasow *cough*
On live You can do something over 46k with perfect classic rotation when everything crits perfectly and over 50k with rotation using daedric tombs on skeleton locked in tight space. That doesnt change a fact it's just skeleton parse with lightning staff on offbar and high offballance uptime. 50k I maded on skeleton was because I tested rotation presented by Vaoh herehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnjTGYetGYs
using trick with locking skeleton in tight space so all 3 mines spawn at him.
On PTS the best parse from all builds I tested already was on ....Stam NB around 40k. Leeching strikes cost (988) makes that skill restoring around 3k stamina which is pretty decent. Magsorc DPS on PTS is one of the highest but not unbeatable number 1. Stam nb is atm the build i had the smallest problems with resources on skeleton I ended fight having around 30-40% stamina.
Would like to add that it was not my intention to lock the mines in.... I didn't notice at the time
You can consistently and easily land 2 mines though on both the skeleton as well as bosses (sometimes all 3 depending on the boss).
It still results in a DPS boost at the expense of Magicka spent. Still to be determined how effective it'll be over the usual setup in Morrowind!Edited by Vaoh on May 15, 2017 6:11PM0 -
Xvorg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@Aquanova
No, I'm not comparing ward to cloak and wings. I'm saying each class has their own defensive schemes which can be stacked with harness. You can't look at individual skills in a vacuum, but rather gotta appraise classes as a whole. At any rate, it's a moot point. Hardened will never scale with health because that would kill the class, and making hardened not stack with harness is completely against ZOS' design philosophy.
I am biased to my favorite class, but that doesn't mean I don't understand the relationship sorcerer has with other classes. In particular, when fighting other good players. I don't care how hard pugs who cry about sorcs get stomped because as Ive said many times, the game shouldn't be balanced around the incompetent.
You said you have a sorc? Why don't you come duel me like I've offered to many people who think Sorcs are broken. We can see who's idea of class balance and relationships is more off base.
You know what does any smart player throwing range attacks to a mDK, right? immediately after the rannged attacks go, you dodgeroll to avoid the reflect, so those wings are a waste of magicka.
What about a shield that last 4 projectiles in 4 secs?Sarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly
I was born with the wrong sign
In the wrong house
With the wrong ascendancy
I took the wrong road
That led to the wrong tendencies
I was in the wrong place at the wrong time
For the wrong reason and the wrong rhyme
On the wrong day of the wrong week
Used the wrong method with the wrong technique0 -
Chilly-McFreeze✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭@Aquanova
No, I'm not comparing ward to cloak and wings. I'm saying each class has their own defensive schemes which can be stacked with harness. You can't look at individual skills in a vacuum, but rather gotta appraise classes as a whole. At any rate, it's a moot point. Hardened will never scale with health because that would kill the class, and making hardened not stack with harness is completely against ZOS' design philosophy.
I am biased to my favorite class, but that doesn't mean I don't understand the relationship sorcerer has with other classes. In particular, when fighting other good players. I don't care how hard pugs who cry about sorcs get stomped because as Ive said many times, the game shouldn't be balanced around the incompetent.
You said you have a sorc? Why don't you come duel me like I've offered to many people who think Sorcs are broken. We can see who's idea of class balance and relationships is more off base.
You know what does any smart player throwing range attacks to a mDK, right? immediately after the rannged attacks go, you dodgeroll to avoid the reflect, so those wings are a waste of magicka.
What about a shield that last 4 projectiles in 4 secs?
Nice, not only it avoids projectile damage, it forces the attack also to waste their stamina
0 -
Stamden✭✭✭✭✭
✭Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »What's wrong with just using harness or dampened? Answer....nothing.
I don't understand why this is such a hard concept to grasp. Every other class has their own native defensive mechanics that are parallels to Hardened Ward. Primarily, they got potent heals. Which can be fired off under harness. DKs have a reflect and big heals, templars have a purge and big heals, and nbs have a cloak and steady heals. All of these can be 'stacked' with the shield. None of those other classes "just" use harness of dampened.
You fundamentally do not understand how sorcerer works relative to these other classes.
Reflect from scales? Are you serious? Try using it. 4 Projectile attacks get reflected including invisible bow light attacks which makes it seem as if you only reflected 2. On my Sorc I can stack my shields and literally mitigate ALL incoming damage if my shields are strongenough, doesn't have a limit. Is that a fair comparison to you?
As for heals, I already said which skills a Sorc has at their disposal and even left 1 out, dark deal/exchange. Yeah, it gives a heal too but your gonna say " No one uses that" or "its useless".Your just arguing from a stand point of "it doesn't fit into the Sorc meta play style" but you have 3Well, looks like the devs are completely neglecting the Sorc issue as far as PvP is concerned. Shields are still insane and Dark Deal is still a ridiculous ability. Both Mag and Stam Sorcs are way better than their respective counterparts.
They aren't. They simply understand the kind of players who complain about sorcs, and how bad they are. You can't fix incompetence with balance changes.
Not gonna drop any names, but having fought against several of the vocal sorc nay sayers the past few weeks, my theories are so confirmed. I can see why you guys would hate the class so much. But your problems are personal issues, not balance concerns.
You compare dks scales and nb cloak to ward?????? It's you who completely doesn't understand Sorc and their relationship to the the other classes.
A typical biased Sorc who doesn't want to play on an even playing field. LMFAO at you and ZOS! for their idea of balance
Lol, what an argument. At least shields don't throw your skills back at you, don't they?
Yes, sorcs have three heals. One from the pet that costs you 2 bar slots, one proccing on crit dmg (not realy on demand) and d/d, that 1.2s interruptable channel.
Scales, cloak, ward - 3 different skills, 3 different concepts. DK scales can *** up a caster, cloak needs a tune up to be more reliable but it deprives you from all direct dmg, shields are strong in 1v1 but looses their worth fast in Xv1 situations. Cloak and dodge roll doesn't. Granted, scales only reflect 4 projectiles.
I understand where this sorc hate train comes from. DK, NB and templars got *** up and you are angry that sorcs recieved more indirect nerfs.
If someone scratches my car I wouldn't feel better if my neighbors car get scratched also. Don't know about you.
If we're going with the car analogy, here is what it's like even before this patch:
-DKs are a 1996 Toyota with a broken transmission
-NBs and Templars are 2005 Honda Civics
-Sorcs are a brand new Porche
Now with this patch the Toyota and Hondas get in huge accidents and nearly totaled. Meanwhile, the Porche gets a small dent.
Yup. The problem isn't that all classes except Sorc are getting hit super hard this match. The problem is Mag and Stam Sorcs are already godlike in every aspect of the game.
Me personally though.. I just wish they would give Dark Deal a real nerf and make it so shields aren't so insanely strong. It's a simple request but I guess we can't even have that.PC NA
~Currently taking a break from the game until my DK can become something more than just a crafter~4 -
Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »What's wrong with just using harness or dampened? Answer....nothing.
I don't understand why this is such a hard concept to grasp. Every other class has their own native defensive mechanics that are parallels to Hardened Ward. Primarily, they got potent heals. Which can be fired off under harness. DKs have a reflect and big heals, templars have a purge and big heals, and nbs have a cloak and steady heals. All of these can be 'stacked' with the shield. None of those other classes "just" use harness of dampened.
You fundamentally do not understand how sorcerer works relative to these other classes.
Reflect from scales? Are you serious? Try using it. 4 Projectile attacks get reflected including invisible bow light attacks which makes it seem as if you only reflected 2. On my Sorc I can stack my shields and literally mitigate ALL incoming damage if my shields are strongenough, doesn't have a limit. Is that a fair comparison to you?
As for heals, I already said which skills a Sorc has at their disposal and even left 1 out, dark deal/exchange. Yeah, it gives a heal too but your gonna say " No one uses that" or "its useless".Your just arguing from a stand point of "it doesn't fit into the Sorc meta play style" but you have 3Well, looks like the devs are completely neglecting the Sorc issue as far as PvP is concerned. Shields are still insane and Dark Deal is still a ridiculous ability. Both Mag and Stam Sorcs are way better than their respective counterparts.
They aren't. They simply understand the kind of players who complain about sorcs, and how bad they are. You can't fix incompetence with balance changes.
Not gonna drop any names, but having fought against several of the vocal sorc nay sayers the past few weeks, my theories are so confirmed. I can see why you guys would hate the class so much. But your problems are personal issues, not balance concerns.
You compare dks scales and nb cloak to ward?????? It's you who completely doesn't understand Sorc and their relationship to the the other classes.
A typical biased Sorc who doesn't want to play on an even playing field. LMFAO at you and ZOS! for their idea of balance
Lol, what an argument. At least shields don't throw your skills back at you, don't they?
Yes, sorcs have three heals. One from the pet that costs you 2 bar slots, one proccing on crit dmg (not realy on demand) and d/d, that 1.2s interruptable channel.
Scales, cloak, ward - 3 different skills, 3 different concepts. DK scales can *** up a caster, cloak needs a tune up to be more reliable but it deprives you from all direct dmg, shields are strong in 1v1 but looses their worth fast in Xv1 situations. Cloak and dodge roll doesn't. Granted, scales only reflect 4 projectiles.
I understand where this sorc hate train comes from. DK, NB and templars got *** up and you are angry that sorcs recieved more indirect nerfs.
If someone scratches my car I wouldn't feel better if my neighbors car get scratched also. Don't know about you.
If we're going with the car analogy, here is what it's like even before this patch:
-DKs are a 1996 Toyota with a broken transmission
-NBs and Templars are 2005 Honda Civics
-Sorcs are a brand new Porche
Now with this patch the Toyota and Hondas get in huge accidents and nearly totaled. Meanwhile, the Porche gets a small dent.
Yup. The problem isn't that all classes except Sorc are getting hit super hard this match. The problem is Mag and Stam Sorcs are already godlike in every aspect of the game.
Me personally though.. I just wish they would give Dark Deal a real nerf and make it so shields aren't so insanely strong. It's a simple request but I guess we can't even have that.
An HA build is running 50% mitigation, 3K+ impen, block for another 50% mitigation, then tack on (insert heal of choice). You're looking at taking a minute amount of damage compared to your heals, and an equivalent amount of health than a double stacked shield sorc. Having 25-30K health and taking half damage is worth twice that, tape down the block button? Double that again. Critable? Yes but you're not taking more than 10-20% crit damage because of stacked resist, and there's no cap on it.
As crappy as double stack shield sorcs are, it's not that far off from an equivalent HA build, and they hit about as hard as a stam Templar does.
What needs to happen is a bigger buff to medium armor against shielded or blocking targets. Otherwise it's just not a viable PVP option.Edited by Minalan on May 15, 2017 11:36PM1 -
Stamden✭✭✭✭✭
✭Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »What's wrong with just using harness or dampened? Answer....nothing.
I don't understand why this is such a hard concept to grasp. Every other class has their own native defensive mechanics that are parallels to Hardened Ward. Primarily, they got potent heals. Which can be fired off under harness. DKs have a reflect and big heals, templars have a purge and big heals, and nbs have a cloak and steady heals. All of these can be 'stacked' with the shield. None of those other classes "just" use harness of dampened.
You fundamentally do not understand how sorcerer works relative to these other classes.
Reflect from scales? Are you serious? Try using it. 4 Projectile attacks get reflected including invisible bow light attacks which makes it seem as if you only reflected 2. On my Sorc I can stack my shields and literally mitigate ALL incoming damage if my shields are strongenough, doesn't have a limit. Is that a fair comparison to you?
As for heals, I already said which skills a Sorc has at their disposal and even left 1 out, dark deal/exchange. Yeah, it gives a heal too but your gonna say " No one uses that" or "its useless".Your just arguing from a stand point of "it doesn't fit into the Sorc meta play style" but you have 3Well, looks like the devs are completely neglecting the Sorc issue as far as PvP is concerned. Shields are still insane and Dark Deal is still a ridiculous ability. Both Mag and Stam Sorcs are way better than their respective counterparts.
They aren't. They simply understand the kind of players who complain about sorcs, and how bad they are. You can't fix incompetence with balance changes.
Not gonna drop any names, but having fought against several of the vocal sorc nay sayers the past few weeks, my theories are so confirmed. I can see why you guys would hate the class so much. But your problems are personal issues, not balance concerns.
You compare dks scales and nb cloak to ward?????? It's you who completely doesn't understand Sorc and their relationship to the the other classes.
A typical biased Sorc who doesn't want to play on an even playing field. LMFAO at you and ZOS! for their idea of balance
Lol, what an argument. At least shields don't throw your skills back at you, don't they?
Yes, sorcs have three heals. One from the pet that costs you 2 bar slots, one proccing on crit dmg (not realy on demand) and d/d, that 1.2s interruptable channel.
Scales, cloak, ward - 3 different skills, 3 different concepts. DK scales can *** up a caster, cloak needs a tune up to be more reliable but it deprives you from all direct dmg, shields are strong in 1v1 but looses their worth fast in Xv1 situations. Cloak and dodge roll doesn't. Granted, scales only reflect 4 projectiles.
I understand where this sorc hate train comes from. DK, NB and templars got *** up and you are angry that sorcs recieved more indirect nerfs.
If someone scratches my car I wouldn't feel better if my neighbors car get scratched also. Don't know about you.
If we're going with the car analogy, here is what it's like even before this patch:
-DKs are a 1996 Toyota with a broken transmission
-NBs and Templars are 2005 Honda Civics
-Sorcs are a brand new Porche
Now with this patch the Toyota and Hondas get in huge accidents and nearly totaled. Meanwhile, the Porche gets a small dent.
Yup. The problem isn't that all classes except Sorc are getting hit super hard this match. The problem is Mag and Stam Sorcs are already godlike in every aspect of the game.
Me personally though.. I just wish they would give Dark Deal a real nerf and make it so shields aren't so insanely strong. It's a simple request but I guess we can't even have that.
An HA build is running 50% mitigation, 3K+ impen, block for another 50% mitigation, then tack on (insert heal of choice). You're looking at taking a minute amount of damage compared to your heals, and an equivalent amount of health than a double stacked shield sorc. Having 25-30K health and taking half damage is worth twice that, tape down the block button? Double that again. Critable? Yes but you're not taking more than 10-20% crit damage because of stacked resist, and there's no cap on it.
As crappy as double stack shield sorcs are, it's not that far off from an equivalent HA build, and they hit about as hard as a stam Templar does.
What needs to happen is a bigger buff to medium armor against shielded or blocking targets. Otherwise it's just not a viable PVP option.
You sacrifice resource management when you run heavy (unless you're a Stam Sorc b/c Dark Deal exists). When you're a shield stacking Sorc you get resource management passives, damage passives, and overpowered sets like Lich that there is no heavy armor equivalent for.
There really isn't any comparison here.PC NA
~Currently taking a break from the game until my DK can become something more than just a crafter~5 -
Chilly-McFreeze✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »What's wrong with just using harness or dampened? Answer....nothing.
I don't understand why this is such a hard concept to grasp. Every other class has their own native defensive mechanics that are parallels to Hardened Ward. Primarily, they got potent heals. Which can be fired off under harness. DKs have a reflect and big heals, templars have a purge and big heals, and nbs have a cloak and steady heals. All of these can be 'stacked' with the shield. None of those other classes "just" use harness of dampened.
You fundamentally do not understand how sorcerer works relative to these other classes.
Reflect from scales? Are you serious? Try using it. 4 Projectile attacks get reflected including invisible bow light attacks which makes it seem as if you only reflected 2. On my Sorc I can stack my shields and literally mitigate ALL incoming damage if my shields are strongenough, doesn't have a limit. Is that a fair comparison to you?
As for heals, I already said which skills a Sorc has at their disposal and even left 1 out, dark deal/exchange. Yeah, it gives a heal too but your gonna say " No one uses that" or "its useless".Your just arguing from a stand point of "it doesn't fit into the Sorc meta play style" but you have 3Well, looks like the devs are completely neglecting the Sorc issue as far as PvP is concerned. Shields are still insane and Dark Deal is still a ridiculous ability. Both Mag and Stam Sorcs are way better than their respective counterparts.
They aren't. They simply understand the kind of players who complain about sorcs, and how bad they are. You can't fix incompetence with balance changes.
Not gonna drop any names, but having fought against several of the vocal sorc nay sayers the past few weeks, my theories are so confirmed. I can see why you guys would hate the class so much. But your problems are personal issues, not balance concerns.
You compare dks scales and nb cloak to ward?????? It's you who completely doesn't understand Sorc and their relationship to the the other classes.
A typical biased Sorc who doesn't want to play on an even playing field. LMFAO at you and ZOS! for their idea of balance
Lol, what an argument. At least shields don't throw your skills back at you, don't they?
Yes, sorcs have three heals. One from the pet that costs you 2 bar slots, one proccing on crit dmg (not realy on demand) and d/d, that 1.2s interruptable channel.
Scales, cloak, ward - 3 different skills, 3 different concepts. DK scales can *** up a caster, cloak needs a tune up to be more reliable but it deprives you from all direct dmg, shields are strong in 1v1 but looses their worth fast in Xv1 situations. Cloak and dodge roll doesn't. Granted, scales only reflect 4 projectiles.
I understand where this sorc hate train comes from. DK, NB and templars got *** up and you are angry that sorcs recieved more indirect nerfs.
If someone scratches my car I wouldn't feel better if my neighbors car get scratched also. Don't know about you.
If we're going with the car analogy, here is what it's like even before this patch:
-DKs are a 1996 Toyota with a broken transmission
-NBs and Templars are 2005 Honda Civics
-Sorcs are a brand new Porche
Now with this patch the Toyota and Hondas get in huge accidents and nearly totaled. Meanwhile, the Porche gets a small dent.
Yup. The problem isn't that all classes except Sorc are getting hit super hard this match. The problem is Mag and Stam Sorcs are already godlike in every aspect of the game.
Me personally though.. I just wish they would give Dark Deal a real nerf and make it so shields aren't so insanely strong. It's a simple request but I guess we can't even have that.
An HA build is running 50% mitigation, 3K+ impen, block for another 50% mitigation, then tack on (insert heal of choice). You're looking at taking a minute amount of damage compared to your heals, and an equivalent amount of health than a double stacked shield sorc. Having 25-30K health and taking half damage is worth twice that, tape down the block button? Double that again. Critable? Yes but you're not taking more than 10-20% crit damage because of stacked resist, and there's no cap on it.
As crappy as double stack shield sorcs are, it's not that far off from an equivalent HA build, and they hit about as hard as a stam Templar does.
What needs to happen is a bigger buff to medium armor against shielded or blocking targets. Otherwise it's just not a viable PVP option.
You sacrifice resource management when you run heavy (unless you're a Stam Sorc b/c Dark Deal exists). When you're a shield stacking Sorc you get resource management passives, damage passives, and overpowered sets like Lich that there is no heavy armor equivalent for.
There really isn't any comparison here.
Then I must have dreamed as the forums got spammend with "nerf permablocking unkillable infinite regen tank builds". Gosh, you know you can still run lich or bone pirates as second set to heavy armor? You know constitution + black rose + any regen skill essentially kept your resources up? BTW a dark dealing stam sorc can't permablock bc, you know, he has to channel that dark deal. It's not like they get stamina back from throwing a class skill or an ultimate.
But I guess that all doesn't matter to you. This isn't any comparison because you are obvious biased. Everything a sorc can or does is bad and op. mSorcs shields - too strong. sSorcs d/d - too strong. Now tell me how a LA mSorc should defend without it's shields? A sSorc doesn't get resources back in an uninterruptable way by simply continuing his offense. And are you really telling us that these permablocking HA tanks are fine or any less of an issue than a shield stackin LA user?
Edit:
If you haven't noticed, pirate skeleton doesn't procs on shields anymore. Rendering it unreliable, extremly risky and therefore probably useless to shield stackers. Also, mind the frontloading CP, they will work on shattering blows. Mind the unmitigable, unshiedable oblivion damage. Mind shield breaker and Knight Slayer set.
And you're still feeling that shields should be even weaker?Edited by Chilly-McFreeze on May 16, 2017 7:08AM0 -
Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@Chilly-McFreeze
Of course shields should be even weaker. I have not seen a viable suggestion yet what else should be a light Armour Sorcs defense if you tone down shields. But that's the point: the image of non-killable shield stacking Sorcs that one shot everything left and right while streaking from Aleswell to Faregyl has become so fixed on this forums here that it is no use arguing any longer. Also people simply QQ for simple hatred.
And it really shows now those target skeletons were a bad idea. Stationary target parses just misrepresent what a class is capable of in game. Also the YouTube videos are misleading. A great player will pull insane DPS no matter which class. Sadly the 40k+ Sorcs are not all that common for a class that is supposedly so OP and so easy to play with a pet build. Smh.Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 46 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1700+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.2 -
grim_tactics✭✭✭✭✭All this butthurt still?
Man - ran into a NB tonight again. Here was how it went.
Guy knew what he was doing - was stealthed, pops up behind some random riding next to me (guy is dead before he fell off horse.)
I get down and pop magelight and run all over looking for him. Nothing. Ok - lil f'er ran off in stealth.
To draw him out I pretend to res the fallen teammate and get hit by poison injection. See him, he immediately goes into stealth.
Two more guys show up and are look for him and again, guy pops from stealth and kills another Sorc before the guy even had a chance.
I pop shields and keep magelight on the guy but he kites around a tree.
Not being able to find him I walk around popping magelight and an immovability pot every time I can just in case.
Well, guy catches me, full shields, I hear 3 stabbing sounds and I'm dead. Fully shield stacked and all. No chance to cast shields or break CC. Guess what the recap was?
Surprise Attack
Surprise Attack
Incap
Velidreth
Which in total was almost 35k damage to me in less time than pressing the shield button. Had no chance.
I can't do 30k damage in that amount of time, Sorcs can't go in and out of stealth like that. But yeah, poor NBs are so weak. Pffffffffff.
Everyone that is a NB crying about Sorcs are just terrible NBs.
Stop running into zergs head first. Quit face tanking your enemies. Play the class how it's suppose to be played - stealth. Pick your spots- hit your rotations - and stop thinking you should be able to just tank as a NB in every fight.
It's ridiculous. Even messaged the guy afterward and said "And you guys complain Sorcs are OP." To which he responded "Nah man, most people are just terrible and don't know how to play their class"
Couldn't agree more.Edited by grim_tactics on May 16, 2017 7:35AM7 -
Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 46 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1700+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.1 -
Biro123✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »
If you haven't noticed, pirate skeleton doesn't procs on shields anymore. Rendering it unreliable, extremly risky and therefore probably useless to shield stackers. Also, mind the frontloading CP, they will work on shattering blows. Mind the unmitigable, unshiedable oblivion damage. Mind shield breaker and Knight Slayer set.
And you're still feeling that shields should be even weaker?
Exactly.
Frontloading CP changes makes shields 20% less effective.
Pirate Skelly makes them 30% less effective.
That's a straight 50% nerf to the shield effectiveness of some builds - that's before factoring things that ignore shields and the resourcing impact of being able to spam shields.
I just don't get how a 50% nerf isn't enough for some people.
Minalan owes me a beer.
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BohnT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »
If you haven't noticed, pirate skeleton doesn't procs on shields anymore. Rendering it unreliable, extremly risky and therefore probably useless to shield stackers. Also, mind the frontloading CP, they will work on shattering blows. Mind the unmitigable, unshiedable oblivion damage. Mind shield breaker and Knight Slayer set.
And you're still feeling that shields should be even weaker?
Exactly.
Frontloading CP changes makes shields 20% less effective.
Pirate Skelly makes them 30% less effective.
That's a straight 50% nerf to the shield effectiveness of some builds - that's before factoring things that ignore shields and the resourcing impact of being able to spam shields.
I just don't get how a 50% nerf isn't enough for some people.
No one will put 50 points into Shield damage. You have 210 points to spent you'll boost raw damage, healing, direct damage, LA/HA damage and dot damage that means you habe no points to spare for a cp that helps you only against one build.
Pirate Skeleton was op as f... It should have never make it into the game.
And for block builds the nerfs are even worse 50% flat increase of block costs with changes to resource management3 -
Chilly-McFreeze✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »
If you haven't noticed, pirate skeleton doesn't procs on shields anymore. Rendering it unreliable, extremly risky and therefore probably useless to shield stackers. Also, mind the frontloading CP, they will work on shattering blows. Mind the unmitigable, unshiedable oblivion damage. Mind shield breaker and Knight Slayer set.
And you're still feeling that shields should be even weaker?
Exactly.
Frontloading CP changes makes shields 20% less effective.
Pirate Skelly makes them 30% less effective.
That's a straight 50% nerf to the shield effectiveness of some builds - that's before factoring things that ignore shields and the resourcing impact of being able to spam shields.
I just don't get how a 50% nerf isn't enough for some people.
No one will put 50 points into Shield damage. You have 210 points to spent you'll boost raw damage, healing, direct damage, LA/HA damage and dot damage that means you habe no points to spare for a cp that helps you only against one build.
Pirate Skeleton was op as f... It should have never make it into the game.
And for block builds the nerfs are even worse 50% flat increase of block costs with changes to resource management
It's not about if you decide to spend all possible cp into shattering blows, it's about the option that is clearly there. If you don't put at least some cp into shattering blows you may shouldn't complain about shield strengths. I always have put roughly 10cp into that and got 5% more dmg against shields. With the same "effort" I will get more than 5% after the update. So to say, it didn't cost me anything to get more shield damage.
And that doesn't even count the additional 10cp for the blue constellations in, nor the effect the frontloading and the new cp options will have or how to spec more into regen will probably cause to lower max magicka.
Plus I have mentioned even more options to deal with shield users.
I tend to agree that Pirate skeleton is overtuned. But that was something avaible to all toons, no matter class or build. Sorcs and shield users in general won't benefit from it anymore.
Block cost increase is bad for permablocks, right. But mind that these resource management changes (lower regen, higher costs) also affect shield spammers. To summon three shields you will need to utilize 12.5k+ magicka then.0 -
Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@Chilly-McFreeze
Stop arguing. It's not about available choices. Yes we have been told for example that we just have to slot Radiant Magelight or use detect pots to deal with gankers when we complained about stealth damage being too high. Altering your build for one specific play style was not a legit counter argument in that discussion. Same standards doesn't hold for this discussion. Ofc people can't be told to use different CP allocations or run nirnhoned weapons *gasp*. It's. Those. Damn. Sorcs.
Need MOAR NERFS.Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 46 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1700+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.0 -
Biro123✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭@Chilly-McFreeze
Stop arguing. It's not about available choices. Yes we have been told for example that we just have to slot Radiant Magelight or use detect pots to deal with gankers when we complained about stealth damage being too high. Altering your build for one specific play style was not a legit counter argument in that discussion. Same standards doesn't hold for this discussion. Ofc people can't be told to use different CP allocations or run nirnhoned weapons *gasp*. It's. Those. Damn. Sorcs.
Need MOAR NERFS.
Its not about altering your build for one playstyle - its about having a build that either has weaknesses or doesn't.
Seriously, its incredibly easy to put a significant amount into shattering blows now while losing very little elsewhere. If you Choose to have shielded enemies as a weakness in your build - then don't complain about them. Its just like running with 0 penetration and complaining about heavy armour..
Its not like sorcs are the only ones using shields either - its every magica class - so shattering blows will benefit against quite a lot of players.
And yes, pirate skeleton DID need nerfing. But its still relevant. People look at shields that they can't get past NOW - and that INCLUDES pirate skeleton in the mix. Removing it IS a nerf. and WILL make those unbreakable shields more breakable. You cannot just discount it from any discussion on shields.
Edited by Biro123 on May 16, 2017 11:13AMMinalan owes me a beer.
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Jamascus✭✭✭✭Every single patch, we expect some kind of nerfs or adjustments to the overtuned class that is the Sorcerer in this game. Yet every single time, they get the best of the patch notes. The gap between Mag Sorcs and everybody else just gets more and more ridiculous every time.
Take last patch for example. Mag Sorcs were god tier in PvP and PvE. What happened? A raw 8% damage increase and a better Haunting Curse.
This patch? Almost every aspect of the game is getting toned down and nerfed, except Sorcs and shields.
There is a major problem in this game when a full light armor Sorc in Lich can spam shield indefinitely and be harder to kill than any kind of heavy armor tank. There is no reason to play anything else in PvP. You do the most damage, are the most mobile, and are the hardest to kill. In PvE you outparse everyone by a huge margin.
We get it Zenimax, this class is your favorite and they need to be vastly superior to every other class in the game in every aspect of the game. But this is just getting ridiculous. It is so unprofessional for this kind of ridiculous favoritism to exist by a major company.
Do you know hardened ward used to last 20 seconds? If you're fighting a Sorc and he/she streaks away while you're still alive and you can't catch up to them, you won the fight. Do you know streak used to cost the same with repetitive use? Now it costs more if used within 4 seconds of the last one.
Do you know that critical rush was given a ninja CC? And only after numerous threads and bug reports did ZOS admit they added it without telling us. Critical Rush doesn't cost more if used within 4 seconds of the last one. Viper procs on all melee damage done, every 4 seconds... there is no proc chance. That means you can spam critical rush with no penalty and it will cc enemies and every 4 seconds your critical rush will do an extra "x" amount of damage because viper procs too.1 -
Marto✭✭✭✭✭
✭In my opinion, shields should not stack.
Make them last longer, if needed. Make them stronger, if needed. But as a sorc, people should forced to pick:
Do I want to recover magicka when hit?
Do I want to heal?
Do I want a cheaper/more effective shield?
But just 1. I feel giving players the ability to choose 2, or even all 3 is broken, by design."According to the calculations of the sages of the Cult of the Ancestor Moth, the batam guar is the cutest creature in all Tamriel"5 -
Biro123✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭@Biro123 Shields themselves are still completely broken though regardless. Pirate Skeleton was just 1 of the many reasons they are so stupid.
I see.. a 50% nerf isn't enough - you just want the whole mechanic removing?
Now I'd see that as a straight dumbing down of the game. Effectively it would mean that there is one build to rule them all from an offensive perspective. Penetration and Crit > all. Surely the game is better and more diverse when some defences are stronger against certain offensive setups, yet others are weaker vs those same builds ?Minalan owes me a beer.
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grim_tactics✭✭✭✭✭Are the people with issues still even 600cp?
I only ask because the people I see complaining in area chat are under leveled when they complain about losing a duel.
As others have said - Sorcs were originally OP. There have been numerous HUGE nerfs to our abilities in the past.
The way it stands now, even a minor change to shields or how an ability works could break the class into being unplayable.
I have to run detect pots on top of magelight now because I get tired of constantly spamming it trying to find a stealthed player. It was an ability that was a toggle - now it lasts 5 seconds.
Streak was OP - now you use it to basically just run away because the increase in cost to spam it already will destroy resources.
Even stacking shields lasts, realistically, 4-5 seconds after having to cast both, especially if you are running 1 on each bar.
If this whole argument for destroying the Sorc class is based on how people do against them in a 1v1 - this game isn't balanced around 1v1 and never will be.
I've never encountered a scenario in either PvP campaign (CP or Non) where 2 or more people had any trouble killing me if I hung around.
My class isn't made for face tanking groups of enemies unless some DK or someone roots several people then I can run through with Destro Ult - but anyone that uses a Destro can do the same thing.
Unfortunately, I have this bad feeling that update 15 later on will nerf shields. Fine, break the class for these players who refuse to learn counterplay. If they decide to go that route - it'll only last until the next update.
Why do you think Sorcs have been backed into a corner and basically still have to run the same build after every update? Because that's all we can do to be viable.
Any small change to sustain with Sorcs will have them dying by one shot gank builds every match they go into.
I feel this whole situation was started because the top 1-5% of great Sorc players are running through players because of really good group communication and because of this people want the class made unplayable for the other 95% that are just decent.
Now with CP changes - just apply pressure. Let a shield stacking Sorc spam shields and then burn him when he's got no Magicka to continue to do so because having to keep casting them to negate damage leaves them with no more offensive utility.
Maybe I should just record every instance of another player just destroying Sorcs with ease so people will realize it's a L2P issue and not a class issue.Edited by grim_tactics on May 18, 2017 8:44AM1 -
Biro123✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I can't see them nerfing shields any more than they have, to be honest.. People will realise once they get used to Morrowind - but look at the indirect shield nerfs they have already:
Very easy to get Shattering Blows - 20% nerf
Waste of points to go over 50cp in Bastion - 5% nerf
or
PVP moving to NOCP - 20%? nerf to max mag = a significant nerf to base shield strength, + No Bastion and No Shattering blows (which compared to live setups = around a 20% nerf)
Loss of Pirate Skelly for shield users - 30% nerf
Building for recov = less max mag = smaller shields.
Smaller shields = needeing to re-apply them more often = needing even more recov = even smaller shields.
More stuff that does damage through shields.
Honestly, I'm starting to worry about the viability of shields...
Hard to know for sure, but overall I'm looking at what are now the strongest shield setups on live being at least 60% weaker in Morrowind.
But people think they haven't been nerfed...
Edited by Biro123 on May 18, 2017 8:53AMMinalan owes me a beer.
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