What's the point of running Templar healers now? (PTS natch potes)

Bullitt

I agree w some that it is not fair for the max cp players to get *** on while the weekend warriors get to come on 1 time a month and now get to be just as strong. So for any 1 to say its right is the weekend warriors that are doing the complaining .
I have been playing for 2+ years I have spent a lot of time lvling up 12 toons and for a *** to be able to come on and be just as strong is really a stupid move on zos part. Cause in the end who is your real fan base the ones that play the game
1000+ Hours or the ones that come on 1 a damn year and cry why they cant win in a fight WTF ZOS use ur brain all them people working for you and you make stupid decisions think about what ur doing b4 you act common sense 101

KerinKor

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

We are 100% committed to supporting a single unified game where mechanics and abilities work consistently

Translation: We are 100% committed to continuing to try to balance two fundamentally different gameplay mechanics and will continue to nerf skills in the PVE domain to cater for the PVPers.

FleetwoodSmack

KerinKor wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

We are 100% committed to supporting a single unified game where mechanics and abilities work consistently

Translation: We are 100% committed to continuing to try to balance two fundamentally different gameplay mechanics and will continue to nerf skills in the PVE domain to cater for the PVPers.

Pretty much. But according to them "we don't have to be here".

Twohothardware

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

We’d like to provide some clarity on why we made some of the changes we did, specifically to the Templar. Reading about some of these changes can be a bit jarring at first, and we highly suggest you to log onto the PTS to give it a try first-hand; this may help you see how everything works together and in context.

First, we want to reiterate why we’re making these global changes to abilities and resource management (and most of this will sound very familiar if you read the PTS patch notes). Our combat system features fast-paced action where resource management plays a large part in performing effectively. Player abilities in ESO specifically do not have cooldowns for this very reason - resource management is a core pillar of the system. Due to the number of balance changes we’ve made over time, this core pillar of resource management has become trivialized in that it’s become easier than ever to have nearly infinite sustainability while still being fully maximized for damage. The overall goal here is to have a combat system that reinforces decision making and resource management.

With that being said, one of the main concerns we want to address is the worry that we’re nerfing Templars in order to make the Warden a stronger healing class, particularly by nerfing Major Mending and giving it to Wardens. We’ve made it so all classes have to meet conditional requirements to gain Major Mending. DK’s need to have their damage shields up, Wardens have to heal low health targets, and Resto Staff users have to complete a fully charged heavy attack. It’s also worth noting that we’re planning on adjusting the Warden passive, Accelerated Growth, because it’s currently too easy to keep it active for long periods of time.

If you’re worried that there’s no reason to play a Templar over a Warden, or any other class, keep in mind that Templars have a stronger single target burst heal that’s easier to aim (Rushed Ceremony), they have a faster healing spammable ability with Healing Ritual, and their Ultimate heal hits targets in a 28m radius instead of 8 meters. In addition, have also have a free heal with Repentance, can cleanse allies with the Cleansing Ritual synergy and can remove 5 effects from themselves. Rushed Ceremony is also still the strongest heal in ESO, so Templars still have a lot going for them.

Lastly, we know there’s some apprehension that we’re balancing PvE and PvP gameplay simultaneously without separating the two. We are 100% committed to supporting a single unified game where mechanics and abilities work consistently, with the goal being for players to learn how play efficiently and be able to transfer those skills to other environments. This is one of the reasons we added CC immunities to monsters; when ESO originally launched, you could knock the same mudcrab down over and over. The balance changes we made in this update are aimed at making gameplay more interesting in all areas of the game.

Again, we encourage everyone to hop on the PTS and give these changes a try in both PvE and PvP scenarios rather than just reading about the changes. Once you’ve had a chance to try everything out, we’d love to hear your feedback about what you played.

Have you guys just completely ignored the effect losing major mending has on Stamina Templars though? You talk about how you've made it so all classes have to meet conditional requirements to gain major mending, exactly what requirement is it that Stamina Templars are expected to use? A Resto Staff? And how does Stamina Templar benefit from the healing of Rushed Ceremony, Healing Ritual or that healing Ultimate when all of those are Magicka abilities?

You guys are nerfing healing on Stamina Templars in about a half a dozen different ways by removing Major Mending, increasing Vigor cost by 30%, nerfing Blessed and Quick Recovery CP, and nerfing the Troll King monster set all while you continue to ignore how blatantly overpowered Magicka Sorcerers are in PvP and PvE and did not do one single direct nerf to MagSorc's shields which get to completely avoid all these other nerfs to healing.

So while Stamina Templar and other Stamina classes will have a much harder time healing in Morrowind MagSorc will be exactly the same as they are now except for needing to invest a couple extra jewelry glyphs into magicka regen.

dcam86b14_ESO

My feedback as as long time templar healer.

Give Wardens Major Mending but at a lower % and leave Major Mending on Templars but at a lower % passively
Leave shards but let the Templar morph which resource to restore, same with Nec orb.
Leave the armor passives alone.

Illurian

MissBizz wrote: »

I think Gina should tell us more about Remembrance. That 28 20m ultimate.... what's it do again?

I don't remember.

Hahahaha I'll let myself out.

dodgehopper_ESO

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Excellent changes! Reason to still use a Templar Healer? Breath of Life; it's still the easiest healing class in the game; only now other classes can potentially be stronger, but it requires more skill.

Zenimax is finally rewarding skill! Thank God!

It makes sense to turn a class into a skill-less steaming pile? I don't think so. Many of us picked our class based upon theme at the outset, and almost none of the classes look anything like they started. Templar is literally unrecognizable from its original state apart from Jabs/Sweeps and the ultimates. Templar has been a problem for them from the outset because they did a terrible job of making all of the parts work together, and they are still doing a terrible job of it. I love the class, but lets face it they put it together in a haphazard fashion. When I look at the Warden I think to myself that the Warden is basically designed in a more intelligent manner... how they should have made Templar. I'll wait to see though until I actually play the class.

NeuroAutonomy

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

We’d like to provide some clarity on why we made some of the changes we did, specifically to the Templar. Reading about some of these changes can be a bit jarring at first, and we highly suggest you to log onto the PTS to give it a try first-hand; this may help you see how everything works together and in context.

First, we want to reiterate why we’re making these global changes to abilities and resource management (and most of this will sound very familiar if you read the PTS patch notes). Our combat system features fast-paced action where resource management plays a large part in performing effectively. Player abilities in ESO specifically do not have cooldowns for this very reason - resource management is a core pillar of the system. Due to the number of balance changes we’ve made over time, this core pillar of resource management has become trivialized in that it’s become easier than ever to have nearly infinite sustainability while still being fully maximized for damage. The overall goal here is to have a combat system that reinforces decision making and resource management.

With that being said, one of the main concerns we want to address is the worry that we’re nerfing Templars in order to make the Warden a stronger healing class, particularly by nerfing Major Mending and giving it to Wardens. We’ve made it so all classes have to meet conditional requirements to gain Major Mending. DK’s need to have their damage shields up, Wardens have to heal low health targets, and Resto Staff users have to complete a fully charged heavy attack. It’s also worth noting that we’re planning on adjusting the Warden passive, Accelerated Growth, because it’s currently too easy to keep it active for long periods of time.

If you’re worried that there’s no reason to play a Templar over a Warden, or any other class, keep in mind that Templars have a stronger single target burst heal that’s easier to aim (Rushed Ceremony), they have a faster healing spammable ability with Healing Ritual, and their Ultimate heal hits targets in a 28m radius instead of 8 meters. In addition, have also have a free heal with Repentance, can cleanse allies with the Cleansing Ritual synergy and can remove 5 effects from themselves. Rushed Ceremony is also still the strongest heal in ESO, so Templars still have a lot going for them.

Lastly, we know there’s some apprehension that we’re balancing PvE and PvP gameplay simultaneously without separating the two. We are 100% committed to supporting a single unified game where mechanics and abilities work consistently, with the goal being for players to learn how play efficiently and be able to transfer those skills to other environments. This is one of the reasons we added CC immunities to monsters; when ESO originally launched, you could knock the same mudcrab down over and over. The balance changes we made in this update are aimed at making gameplay more interesting in all areas of the game.

Again, we encourage everyone to hop on the PTS and give these changes a try in both PvE and PvP scenarios rather than just reading about the changes. Once you’ve had a chance to try everything out, we’d love to hear your feedback about what you played.

@ZOS_GinaBruno I would love to participate in some form of testing but I'm a console player and as such, we don't really see any form of testing, closed beta or otherwise. There needs to be some way for console players to test things as well, besides having to purchase a whole other version of the game.

Since when is healing ritual classed as a spammable? I don't know many healers who even run it, mainly because of the cast time and the fact that it's not a HoT. Also, most trial templar healers don't run the healing ulti because it locks you in place while warhorns and novas are more useful. The healing ulti is more usful in pvp.

On the topic of repentance, I've never used repentance for the heal. It was always about timing it so the group would get stam back to block in the middle of a big add pull.

Tholian1

KerinKor wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

We are 100% committed to supporting a single unified game where mechanics and abilities work consistently

Translation: We are 100% committed to continuing to try to balance two fundamentally different gameplay mechanics and will continue to nerf skills in the PVE domain to cater for the PVPers.

And I'll take that as an admission that all PvE nerfs are because of PvP balance, since NPCs don't complain about unfair fights and human players do.

Calandrae

I know all this has been said many times, but here we go again:

1. No skillful healer uses Healing Ritual. Ever. It has been a crappy skill and total waste of space since launch. Relying on such a heal with long cast-time would be suicidal and basically homicidal in any fast-paced end-game PvE content. (I can't speak for PvP as I've never played that). The skill should have been changed to something useful a long time ago. Even mentioning it as a "plus" for a Templar Healer is hypocritical.

2. The healing ultimate is also useless in end-game PvE healing. It doesn't make Templars useful because nobody slots it because there are way better options.

3. Templar is a class with a full skill-line dedicated to healing/support. It is unreasonable that the class won't have any class based access to major mending, especially while the other new (and paid) class with a healing skill-line will have an incredibly handy one. 1/3 of our class skills are for healing and support.

If this new patch goes live as it is, you have basically gutted Templar Healers. Our healing abilities will be greatly reduced, but also our abilities to support our team-mates with resource management. We won't have a lot going for us. Quite the contrary.

I understand some nerfs and adjusting are necessary. But this is too much, and the context seems pretty clear when it happens while Warden is introduced.

cheemers

What's the point of Restoring Focus now that they grant minor mending by default? Just the minor protection? Stamplars are getting double nerfed.

Catches_the_Sun

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

We’d like to provide some clarity on why we made some of the changes we did, specifically to the Templar. Reading about some of these changes can be a bit jarring at first, and we highly suggest you to log onto the PTS to give it a try first-hand; this may help you see how everything works together and in context.

First, we want to reiterate why we’re making these global changes to abilities and resource management (and most of this will sound very familiar if you read the PTS patch notes). Our combat system features fast-paced action where resource management plays a large part in performing effectively. Player abilities in ESO specifically do not have cooldowns for this very reason - resource management is a core pillar of the system. Due to the number of balance changes we’ve made over time, this core pillar of resource management has become trivialized in that it’s become easier than ever to have nearly infinite sustainability while still being fully maximized for damage. The overall goal here is to have a combat system that reinforces decision making and resource management.

With that being said, one of the main concerns we want to address is the worry that we’re nerfing Templars in order to make the Warden a stronger healing class, particularly by nerfing Major Mending and giving it to Wardens. We’ve made it so all classes have to meet conditional requirements to gain Major Mending. DK’s need to have their damage shields up, Wardens have to heal low health targets, and Resto Staff users have to complete a fully charged heavy attack. It’s also worth noting that we’re planning on adjusting the Warden passive, Accelerated Growth, because it’s currently too easy to keep it active for long periods of time.

If you’re worried that there’s no reason to play a Templar over a Warden, or any other class, keep in mind that Templars have a stronger single target burst heal that’s easier to aim (Rushed Ceremony), they have a faster healing spammable ability with Healing Ritual, and their Ultimate heal hits targets in a 28m radius instead of 8 meters. In addition, have also have a free heal with Repentance, can cleanse allies with the Cleansing Ritual synergy and can remove 5 effects from themselves. Rushed Ceremony is also still the strongest heal in ESO, so Templars still have a lot going for them.

Lastly, we know there’s some apprehension that we’re balancing PvE and PvP gameplay simultaneously without separating the two. We are 100% committed to supporting a single unified game where mechanics and abilities work consistently, with the goal being for players to learn how play efficiently and be able to transfer those skills to other environments. This is one of the reasons we added CC immunities to monsters; when ESO originally launched, you could knock the same mudcrab down over and over. The balance changes we made in this update are aimed at making gameplay more interesting in all areas of the game.

Again, we encourage everyone to hop on the PTS and give these changes a try in both PvE and PvP scenarios rather than just reading about the changes. Once you’ve had a chance to try everything out, we’d love to hear your feedback about what you played.

Do any of you knuckleheads play Trials? You weaving in some nice resto staff heavy attacks in between throwing shards, keeping your ritual up, keeping wards up, keeping HoT's up, keeping Combat Prayer up? What percentage of your player base do you figure can do that? What is your target number for the percentage of players that you actually want to complete end-game content?

To try to sell this as anything other than boosting the Warden by nerfing the Templar is insulting to our intelligence. It took you 3 years to figure out these balance changes and just so happened to plan to implement it the same day that Warden releases? And we're supposed to believe this is some sort of balancing coincidence? BS! Nonsense. Not buying it.

Free Repentance heals aren't worth slotting if they're not giving Stamina back to the group. Heck, I don't use it for the heals now because when there are corpses, 9 times out of 10, they're trash mobs, and my group doesn't need heals...they need Stamina to continue to mow through trash mobs. There just aren't that many bosses that have enough adds that make this a viable "healing" skill. Also, with bosses that DO have adds, many times, they don't count as corpses when they're dead. It's slotted for the occasions that I can give some Stamina back to my group. That is no longer a thing.

No matter how you try to spin it, you can't convince me that making 100% negative changes to the Templar will somehow result in a positive change. Nonsense. You're taking 25% off of my base healing (17% from Major to Minor Mending, 10% reduction in Blessed cap, +2 back from Mending passive), and it's going to cost me 21% more Magicka to cast (15% from loss of CP cost reduction, 7% from change to Light Armor passive). You've essentially given everybody Shards by putting them on the same cooldown as Orbs. No matter what you say we have "going for us" as Templars, it'll be far less in a few weeks than it is now.

I could give a skeever's dirty arse how it compares to the Warden, there is no doubt my class is not going to be nearly as good, as fun, or as desired when Morrowind releases as it is today. I'm very put out by it, and can't bring myself to log in to the game since reading this update. We've cancelled our Morrowind Collector's Edition preorders for now and will see if you guys get some sense between now & release.

Neoauspex

cheemers wrote: »

What's the point of Restoring Focus now that they grant minor mending by default? Just the minor protection? Stamplars are getting double nerfed.

xaraan

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

We’d like to provide some clarity on why we made some of the changes we did, specifically to the Templar. Reading about some of these changes can be a bit jarring at first, and we highly suggest you to log onto the PTS to give it a try first-hand; this may help you see how everything works together and in context.

First, we want to reiterate why we’re making these global changes to abilities and resource management (and most of this will sound very familiar if you read the PTS patch notes). Our combat system features fast-paced action where resource management plays a large part in performing effectively. Player abilities in ESO specifically do not have cooldowns for this very reason - resource management is a core pillar of the system. Due to the number of balance changes we’ve made over time, this core pillar of resource management has become trivialized in that it’s become easier than ever to have nearly infinite sustainability while still being fully maximized for damage. The overall goal here is to have a combat system that reinforces decision making and resource management.

With that being said, one of the main concerns we want to address is the worry that we’re nerfing Templars in order to make the Warden a stronger healing class, particularly by nerfing Major Mending and giving it to Wardens. We’ve made it so all classes have to meet conditional requirements to gain Major Mending. DK’s need to have their damage shields up, Wardens have to heal low health targets, and Resto Staff users have to complete a fully charged heavy attack. It’s also worth noting that we’re planning on adjusting the Warden passive, Accelerated Growth, because it’s currently too easy to keep it active for long periods of time.

If you’re worried that there’s no reason to play a Templar over a Warden, or any other class, keep in mind that Templars have a stronger single target burst heal that’s easier to aim (Rushed Ceremony), they have a faster healing spammable ability with Healing Ritual, and their Ultimate heal hits targets in a 28m radius instead of 8 meters. In addition, have also have a free heal with Repentance, can cleanse allies with the Cleansing Ritual synergy and can remove 5 effects from themselves. Rushed Ceremony is also still the strongest heal in ESO, so Templars still have a lot going for them.

Lastly, we know there’s some apprehension that we’re balancing PvE and PvP gameplay simultaneously without separating the two. We are 100% committed to supporting a single unified game where mechanics and abilities work consistently, with the goal being for players to learn how play efficiently and be able to transfer those skills to other environments. This is one of the reasons we added CC immunities to monsters; when ESO originally launched, you could knock the same mudcrab down over and over. The balance changes we made in this update are aimed at making gameplay more interesting in all areas of the game.

Again, we encourage everyone to hop on the PTS and give these changes a try in both PvE and PvP scenarios rather than just reading about the changes. Once you’ve had a chance to try everything out, we’d love to hear your feedback about what you played.

I think the concern is that by taking away repentance returning stam and having shards orbs be the same thing, you are removing a core reason to run a templar period. The heals are not the big reason, so pointing to Breath of Life (sorc pet rivals this in some ways as a heal plus has other advantages - omnidirectional, goes through line of site, pet attacks while out and provides a buff to caster) as the big reason doesn't quite equal out what they lost.

And then to say every class has to do something for major mending and then only list two classes that have to do something makes my head spin. So DK has to cast shields (might be ok in pve, horrible in pvp) & warden has to heal to get it? Everyone else must rely on resto - so then why not just have that be the way for every single class. Go back to giving DK the buff regardless of their shield, but make it minor. Same for Warden. Then every class can earn Major with rest staff, which means they are probably running a healer anyhow and would make the most sense to have it.

As for the repentance/shards thing - I'd have knocked repentance down to giving others 25% of what the caster gets or something instead of taken it all away. It wouldn't be crazy strong then, but would still offer templars a reason to run it for groups besides the heal (usually the healing isn't the stressful part and won't be with the nerfs to resources in next patch). Combining the fact that: no cost reduction in CP (cool, whatever), with increased skill cost, less regen bonuses, blocking nerf again with the inability to do anything about it brings the concern to another level.

The statement in the patch notes "we wanted to remove the need to feed shards/repentance to dps" is a little odd since anyone should see the need is still there (actually greater now), only the ability to do anything about it is gone.

Anyhow, I've run plenty of end-game content as a healer without ever even needing to use breath of life (rushed ceremony) and don't even bring up ritual, that's useless compared to almost every other option. (Granted, I'd probably always have BoL on back bar just in case for the hardest stuff because I'm not saying it's horrible). But it's not the reason I run a templar healer. Neither is the ultimate. Shards and repentance are.

Without that, why run them over Warden? Get major mending just for healing. Give your WHOLE GROUP the major buffs for armor and spell resist with good duration and free up bar space for them. Give your group a free ebon health buff. Plus they have some decent heals that combined with orbs and resto staff make them a better choice. At least leaving templars with the ability to help resources gives them something to combat all the group buffs warden gives and a reason to play the class. Not necessarily a reason to play them over warden, but makes them both look like good options.

Tanis-Stormbinder

3 sec's of Major mending after a heavy attack with Restoration Staff isn't enough. Bump that up to 6 secs

austinwalter87ub17_ESO

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

We’d like to provide some clarity on why we made some of the changes we did, specifically to the Templar. Reading about some of these changes can be a bit jarring at first, and we highly suggest you to log onto the PTS to give it a try first-hand; this may help you see how everything works together and in context.

First, we want to reiterate why we’re making these global changes to abilities and resource management (and most of this will sound very familiar if you read the PTS patch notes). Our combat system features fast-paced action where resource management plays a large part in performing effectively. Player abilities in ESO specifically do not have cooldowns for this very reason - resource management is a core pillar of the system. Due to the number of balance changes we’ve made over time, this core pillar of resource management has become trivialized in that it’s become easier than ever to have nearly infinite sustainability while still being fully maximized for damage. The overall goal here is to have a combat system that reinforces decision making and resource management.

With that being said, one of the main concerns we want to address is the worry that we’re nerfing Templars in order to make the Warden a stronger healing class, particularly by nerfing Major Mending and giving it to Wardens. We’ve made it so all classes have to meet conditional requirements to gain Major Mending. DK’s need to have their damage shields up, Wardens have to heal low health targets, and Resto Staff users have to complete a fully charged heavy attack. It’s also worth noting that we’re planning on adjusting the Warden passive, Accelerated Growth, because it’s currently too easy to keep it active for long periods of time.

If you’re worried that there’s no reason to play a Templar over a Warden, or any other class, keep in mind that Templars have a stronger single target burst heal that’s easier to aim (Rushed Ceremony), they have a faster healing spammable ability with Healing Ritual, and their Ultimate heal hits targets in a 28m radius instead of 8 meters. In addition, have also have a free heal with Repentance, can cleanse allies with the Cleansing Ritual synergy and can remove 5 effects from themselves. Rushed Ceremony is also still the strongest heal in ESO, so Templars still have a lot going for them.

Lastly, we know there’s some apprehension that we’re balancing PvE and PvP gameplay simultaneously without separating the two. We are 100% committed to supporting a single unified game where mechanics and abilities work consistently, with the goal being for players to learn how play efficiently and be able to transfer those skills to other environments. This is one of the reasons we added CC immunities to monsters; when ESO originally launched, you could knock the same mudcrab down over and over. The balance changes we made in this update are aimed at making gameplay more interesting in all areas of the game.

Again, we encourage everyone to hop on the PTS and give these changes a try in both PvE and PvP scenarios rather than just reading about the changes. Once you’ve had a chance to try everything out, we’d love to hear your feedback about what you played.

Your reasoning still makes zero sense

masterbroodub17_ESO

Unrelated topic but @ZOS_GinaBruno can you tell us why stamina (which is already lackluster compared to magicka in every way) is getting a 5% cost increase? Just making sure you have the final nail in the coffin?

Spottswoode

Northern_Eve wrote: »

I know all this has been said many times, but here we go again:

1. No skillful healer uses Healing Ritual. Ever. It has been a crappy skill and total waste of space since launch. Relying on such a heal with long cast-time would be suicidal and basically homicidal in any fast-paced end-game PvE content. (I can't speak for PvP as I've never played that). The skill should have been changed to something useful a long time ago. Even mentioning it as a "plus" for a Templar Healer is hypocritical.

2. The healing ultimate is also useless in end-game PvE healing. It doesn't make Templars useful because nobody slots it because there are way better options.

3. Templar is a class with a full skill-line dedicated to healing/support. It is unreasonable that the class won't have any class based access to major mending, especially while the other new (and paid) class with a healing skill-line will have an incredibly handy one. 1/3 of our class skills are for healing and support.

If this new patch goes live as it is, you have basically gutted Templar Healers. Our healing abilities will be greatly reduced, but also our abilities to support our team-mates with resource management. We won't have a lot going for us. Quite the contrary.

I understand some nerfs and adjusting are necessary. But this is too much, and the context seems pretty clear when it happens while Warden is introduced.

1. Barring the cast time, Healing Ritual heals more and costs less than BoL. The cast time does need to be shortened but the skill does have a niche place for close range healing. It's not all that useful in boss fights like Lord Warden Dusk where you need to move constantly but Bogdan the Nightflame type fights can suit it just fine.
2. I actually use Practiced Incantation quite frequently because it raises my Resistance to the cap and used to give immunity to CC. It definitely needs to have more defensive pluses to it for most people, but for me it makes me invulnerable to anything short of instakills for six seconds and heals the entire party. I have taken to using Life Giver because it has a smaller cost and longer range though.
3. I do have to agree that it was overboard to remove major mending from Sacred Ground. Especially when I use Cleaning Ritual extensively to keep the party on point.


ZOS does seem to have an unhealthy fixation on heavy attacks in a game that severely punishes being stuck in cast times and animations. The fact that Wardens aren't going to be stuck with the heavy attack limitation does certainly suggest that it was changed just to make it marketable.

Decon98b16_ESO

I just brought my Templar back from solely being a crafter to adventuring when the anniversary week hit.
After reading the posts and what ESO is saying, I guess I will be shelving my Templar back to crafting duty.
Back to my sorcerer for adventuring and I will pass on the expansion - it will be awhile before this all works itself out.

The players have the all important game-play knowledge and ESO has the power for the changes.
The expansion is purely a money grab - it has to be for a game to survive.
We have players that know what is going on..
We have ESO that has to sell the expansion - which means to make it attractive to buy. Warden versus Templar. It only makes sense for them to make it better to have the Warden.
It is typical for a game like all other games - have to get you to upgrade and spend money.
I believe, like so many other games out there, the "We will go this route, and like always, we will be monitoring the situation and will adjust accordingly down the road. So please buy the expansion." will be presented after they tell us that they have read and understood our concerns.
What most companies do not tell you, imo, is that the monitoring is not of the game asset mechanics but of the cash flow.

Having worked for a gaming company and played many multiplayer games, it is suicide and pretty naïve to think you can have one formula that will apply for both pve and pvp.
I would propose that we have 2 skill profile lines - one that applies in the pve areas and one that applies to the pvp areas. Let the players decide if they carry 2 different sets of weapons and armors for that particular play style.
I do not mean the 2 ability bars - since we are already limited to what skills for adventure and crafting we currently have.

dmanlongb14_ESO

Fuxo wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno This is all understandable and some changes are really needed, but this really doesn't explain the need to remove major mending from templars. Even more when the class has no major sorcery and has a skill line dedicated to healing. Many effects are stationary, including the major mending buf. Healing really isn't about having strongest heals. Nobody needs 20k heals. This is not a dps race. The argument about a stronger burst heal is not really applicable.

you have lots of ways to get Majory Sorcery and you bring full time minor sorcery. Structure entrophy or any dragon Knight, or pots can easily get you the buff. Templars have a full time hot that sits on the ground and can also spec into the resto staff hot like the rest of the healers. Casting a heavy resto staff buffs both of those ablitys, one which is already buffed by 12% after the patch.

L2P

Vaoh

Not gonna sugarcoat things..... @ZOS_GinaBruno

The nerf to Repentance is not a good idea. If the resource return on dead enemies is too great, simply lower it. The removal of its group utility is absolutely wrong as must be reconsidered, since you are essentially deleting a staple Templar utility here.

The nerf to the Spear Shards skill synergy is also a very bad idea. If the intent was to lower the amount of resources obtainable from this synergy, then lower them. Absolute removal is a very bad idea which no one ever asked for or wanted. Necrotic Orbs sharing its cooldown is a joke. As a side note, Necrotic Orb will actually be stronger, meaning the unique class-based version of the resource restore synergy will be weaker than the generic Undaunted version. Never thought out whatsoever by the balance team.

The removal of Major Mending from a Templar's skill kit is a huge mistake, and coincides with a DK's damage shield nerf to truly create a "P2W" type situation around the Warden. To put it bluntly, the Restoration Staff Heavy Attack Major Mending will never become a relied upon buff. If the intent was to nerf the uptime on Major Mending to healers, then perhaps you should nerf Major Mending itself, bringing it down from a 25% buff to 20% buff. A Templar absolutely must gain easy access to Major Mending due to it being a healing class like the Warden (both have healing skill lines, and therefore should have access to Major Mending). A Dragonknight may see nerfs to it's Major Mending uptime, but the current rendition of it causes the buff to be impossible to keep up for any amount of time when in PvP (one weak DoT of any kind can melt your shield quickly). One important thing to note is that Sorcs and NBs survive thanks to mobility over pure tackiness, which gets flipped around for the Templar and DK. With this new patch, Templars and DKs lose their tackiness whilst still lacking mobility. Just an all-around terrible idea.

The nerf to Breath of Life is an odd one. People have different ideas here. It has some justification, though I'd rather it stay an easy way to heal for noobie players with perhaps a nerf to the healing it actually does. If we nerf the radius to 180 degrees, the same must apply to a Sorcerer's healing as well.


Overall, the nerfs to Repentance, Spear Shards, and Major Mending are horrible. These were very badly thought out (if we can call these thought out...) and must be reverted immediately. There's just no way around it. There is a reason so many of these skills have remained fundamentally the same since launch. They are unique and bring unique elements to the game. Why ZOS would want to remove such unique elements to the gameplay of ESO and essentially gut a balanced class is beyond me.

Koolio

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

We’d like to provide some clarity on why we made some of the changes we did, specifically to the Templar. Reading about some of these changes can be a bit jarring at first, and we highly suggest you to log onto the PTS to give it a try first-hand; this may help you see how everything works together and in context.

First, we want to reiterate why we’re making these global changes to abilities and resource management (and most of this will sound very familiar if you read the PTS patch notes). Our combat system features fast-paced action where resource management plays a large part in performing effectively. Player abilities in ESO specifically do not have cooldowns for this very reason - resource management is a core pillar of the system. Due to the number of balance changes we’ve made over time, this core pillar of resource management has become trivialized in that it’s become easier than ever to have nearly infinite sustainability while still being fully maximized for damage. The overall goal here is to have a combat system that reinforces decision making and resource management.

With that being said, one of the main concerns we want to address is the worry that we’re nerfing Templars in order to make the Warden a stronger healing class, particularly by nerfing Major Mending and giving it to Wardens. We’ve made it so all classes have to meet conditional requirements to gain Major Mending. DK’s need to have their damage shields up, Wardens have to heal low health targets, and Resto Staff users have to complete a fully charged heavy attack. It’s also worth noting that we’re planning on adjusting the Warden passive, Accelerated Growth, because it’s currently too easy to keep it active for long periods of time.

If you’re worried that there’s no reason to play a Templar over a Warden, or any other class, keep in mind that Templars have a stronger single target burst heal that’s easier to aim (Rushed Ceremony), they have a faster healing spammable ability with Healing Ritual, and their Ultimate heal hits targets in a 28m radius instead of 8 meters. In addition, have also have a free heal with Repentance, can cleanse allies with the Cleansing Ritual synergy and can remove 5 effects from themselves. Rushed Ceremony is also still the strongest heal in ESO, so Templars still have a lot going for them.

Lastly, we know there’s some apprehension that we’re balancing PvE and PvP gameplay simultaneously without separating the two. We are 100% committed to supporting a single unified game where mechanics and abilities work consistently, with the goal being for players to learn how play efficiently and be able to transfer those skills to other environments. This is one of the reasons we added CC immunities to monsters; when ESO originally launched, you could knock the same mudcrab down over and over. The balance changes we made in this update are aimed at making gameplay more interesting in all areas of the game.

Again, we encourage everyone to hop on the PTS and give these changes a try in both PvE and PvP scenarios rather than just reading about the changes. Once you’ve had a chance to try everything out, we’d love to hear your feedback about what you played.

To me this sounds like the scrambling people do after you catch them with there pants down.

disturbed99x

Templars are fine.

They needed this to bring them in line with others.

Tiitus

so will they nerf trails with this blanket nerf to sustain? i cant image trying to block and use abilities etc. all while still having trail bosses hitting like trucks. are we going the "wildstar" route, hardcore no life or gtfo?

ZOS i get you want a certain vision for your game, but i play games to have fun... not to get frustrated and want to smash my screen in.

austinwalter87ub17_ESO

Notice how Gina claims they wanted classes to meet conditional requirements to gain access to the Major Mending buff. Then she mentions the DK major Mending buff, then she claims Resto Staff users can use a heavy attack.

Basically she just said "too bad, use the inefficient Resto heavy attack if you don't like it."

Peekachu99

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

We’d like to provide some clarity on why we made some of the changes we did, specifically to the Templar. Reading about some of these changes can be a bit jarring at first, and we highly suggest you to log onto the PTS to give it a try first-hand; this may help you see how everything works together and in context.

First, we want to reiterate why we’re making these global changes to abilities and resource management (and most of this will sound very familiar if you read the PTS patch notes). Our combat system features fast-paced action where resource management plays a large part in performing effectively. Player abilities in ESO specifically do not have cooldowns for this very reason - resource management is a core pillar of the system. Due to the number of balance changes we’ve made over time, this core pillar of resource management has become trivialized in that it’s become easier than ever to have nearly infinite sustainability while still being fully maximized for damage. The overall goal here is to have a combat system that reinforces decision making and resource management.

With that being said, one of the main concerns we want to address is the worry that we’re nerfing Templars in order to make the Warden a stronger healing class, particularly by nerfing Major Mending and giving it to Wardens. We’ve made it so all classes have to meet conditional requirements to gain Major Mending. DK’s need to have their damage shields up, Wardens have to heal low health targets, and Resto Staff users have to complete a fully charged heavy attack. It’s also worth noting that we’re planning on adjusting the Warden passive, Accelerated Growth, because it’s currently too easy to keep it active for long periods of time.

If you’re worried that there’s no reason to play a Templar over a Warden, or any other class, keep in mind that Templars have a stronger single target burst heal that’s easier to aim (Rushed Ceremony), they have a faster healing spammable ability with Healing Ritual, and their Ultimate heal hits targets in a 28m radius instead of 8 meters. In addition, have also have a free heal with Repentance, can cleanse allies with the Cleansing Ritual synergy and can remove 5 effects from themselves. Rushed Ceremony is also still the strongest heal in ESO, so Templars still have a lot going for them.

Lastly, we know there’s some apprehension that we’re balancing PvE and PvP gameplay simultaneously without separating the two. We are 100% committed to supporting a single unified game where mechanics and abilities work consistently, with the goal being for players to learn how play efficiently and be able to transfer those skills to other environments. This is one of the reasons we added CC immunities to monsters; when ESO originally launched, you could knock the same mudcrab down over and over. The balance changes we made in this update are aimed at making gameplay more interesting in all areas of the game.

Again, we encourage everyone to hop on the PTS and give these changes a try in both PvE and PvP scenarios rather than just reading about the changes. Once you’ve had a chance to try everything out, we’d love to hear your feedback about what you played.

Gina, thanks for taking the time to post all this. Still, it shouldn't be necessary if people would just behave themselves, read the notes and act like adults. I, for one, wholeheartedy support these changes to bring the game out of the power creep that has consumed it--and my main is a temp!

Keep up the good work, and don't worry too much about the echo chamber here. All the best.

Drdeath20

disturbed99x wrote: »

Templars are fine.

They needed this to bring them in line with others.

Except their not. They are a really bad class.

koralr33fer

From notes:

Sacred Ground: This passive ability now grants Minor Mending instead of Major Mending when you are standing in your Cleansing Ritual, Rune Focus, or Rite of Passage areas of effect.
Developer Comments:
Spoiler:
With a similar goal to reducing uptime on Major Mending as noted with the Igneous Shield change, Templars having 100% uptime on Major Mending by just standing within their areas of protection is stronger than we’d like and is one of the reasons they are the most desirable healer in endgame situations. We’ve changed the bonus to Minor Mending instead, but have increased the bonus from the Mending passive to compensate slightly.

Meaning we're the most desirable healer now, but don't get used to it, ur getting bumped from trial healer slot for a shiny new warden. I was stoked about the new class, now....not so much.

Plus how does ZOS not see that getting major mending just by healing vs. having to stop and charge a 2 sec heavy attack is the same thing?

Nerouyn

I'm not at all worried about these changes and they actually make me more inclined to play my templars than I was before. But it's good someone stepped in to say something.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Lastly, we know there’s some apprehension that we’re balancing PvE and PvP gameplay simultaneously without separating the two. We are 100% committed to supporting a single unified game where mechanics and abilities work consistently, with the goal being for players to learn how play efficiently and be able to transfer those skills to other environments.

I hope you never change this. It's one of the things I like most about ESO. I'd be happy for you do away with animation cancelling but that's a different story.

Integral1900

You see my little quivering fuzz balls, the sky isn't falling in, it's all going to be fine, but it will be different, which is also fine

My Templar healer will still be my go to healer, thanks Gina for putting my mind at rest