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What's the point of running Templar healers now? (PTS natch potes)
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KochDerDamonen✭✭✭✭✭
✭
ESO is my first MMO and as a noob to the genre, even I figured this out. This is, by far, the most accurate statement in this discussion.KochDerDamonen wrote: »This game has a problem. Zos can't decide if the classes are traditionalist (DK=Tank, Temp=Heals, NB=Rogue, Sorc=Mage) OR templates (all can fill any role with their own unique buffs and mechanics). It's neither balanced nor diverse, it's somewhere inbetween.
Makes the term "L2P" about as frustrating as the definition allows.
@Violynne And I'll keep saying it until it's no longer trueIf you quote someone, and intend for them to see what you have said, be sure to Mention them with @[insert name].0 -
Miswar✭✭✭✭✭You can count my Morrowind preorder as cancelled.
This does not make any sense and I think ZoS have dropped ball completely. Simple as that.
Good luck with continuous nerf patching. Maybe next time "nerf some people out of the development team".7 -
Nebthet78✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭You guys are totally missing the point(s):
1) Zenimax is in business to make money
2) You will *HAVE* to buy Morrowind once everybody sees how grossly over-powered the Warden is for at least the first year after release
3) All nerfs and "adjustments" are to make #1 and #2 (thus, again, #1) happen
That, or you can take a long vacation from the game, and maybe find a better, more balanced one out that that is just as fun to play.Far too many characters to list any more.0 -
Cêltic421✭✭✭✭These changes to cp and the major nerfing happening is basically proving to me that it is now time to quit this game and go get a real life.
Yea. I cancelled my collectors edition and will just use my bro digital copy on PS4 instead. Not sure how I will like all the changes and nerfs and RNG on weather my group mates gets mag or stam with shards and orbs. To much nerf with Templar at one time.2 -
F7sus4✭✭✭✭✭
✭Reasons to still use a Templar Healer:
- Radiant Aura
- Shards
- Breath of Life (180' isn't that problematic since we're casting Combat Prayer towards the group from the same position)
- Additional Minor Sorcery source
This alone is enough.
Edited by F7sus4 on April 19, 2017 4:06AM2 -
hmsdragonfly✭✭✭✭✭
✭hmsdragonfly wrote: »ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »
Templar- Aedric Spear
- Spear Shards: The synergy from this ability and its morphs now restore Stamina or Magicka, whichever percentage is lower. The amount restored is now based on your character level instead of your Max Resource. The synergy also has a shared cooldown with the Necrotic Orb synergy.
- Luminous Shards (Spear Shards morph): This morph now causes the synergy to also restore an equal amount of Magicka or Stamina to the casting Templar, with a 20-second cooldown.
Developer Comments:This reduces the need to have a Templar to constantly feed Stamina to your Stamina DPS and Tank, while making the Spear Shards synergy more useful to Magicka builds.
- Dawn’s Wrath
- Eclipse:
- This ability and its morphs now last for 3.5 seconds, down from 6 seconds, but can no longer be removed with Break Free. After the effect ends, enemies will gain CC-immunity.
- Reduced the cost of this ability and its morphs by approximately 20%.
- Power of the Light (Backlash morph): Fixed an issue where the damage from this morph could be dodged.
- Purifying Light (Backlash morph): Fixed an issue where the heal from this morph could not critically strike.
- Eclipse:
- Restoring Light
- Mending: This passive ability now increases the healing done by Restoring Light abilities by 6/12% based on the target’s missing health, up from 5/10%.
- Repentance (Restoring Aura morph): This morph now restores Health and Stamina based on your character level instead of your Max Resource. It also only restores Stamina to the casting Templar, but continues to restore Health to the casting Templar and his allies.
Developer Comments:This will be a buff if your Maximum Stamina is below 29,700 and a nerf if it is above.
- Rushed Ceremony: This ability and its morphs now heal friendly targets in a 180 degree cone in front of you, instead of all targets in a radius around you.
Developer Comments:Rushed Ceremony has been an extremely potent heal, and we wanted to adjust its effectiveness without making the ability heal for less. With these goals in mind, we made it so the ability only heals targets in front of the Templar. This makes the ability require more strategic positioning and gives the healer more control over who gets healed. You can now position yourself to ensure an ally being attacked will be healed, rather than another player standing in the back.
- Sacred Ground: This passive ability now grants Minor Mending instead of Major Mending when you are standing in your Cleansing Ritual, Rune Focus, or Rite of Passage areas of effect.
Developer Comments:With a similar goal to reducing uptime on Major Mending as noted with the Igneous Shield change, Templars having 100% uptime on Major Mending by just standing within their areas of protection is stronger than we’d like and is one of the reasons they are the most desirable healer in endgame situations. We’ve changed the bonus to Minor Mending instead, but have increased the bonus from the Mending passive to compensate slightly.
The one silver lining I saw with the Morrowind CP changes was the fact that Templars would still be able to aid in resource management. However, with Repentance no longer restoring stamina to the group, and Spear Shards sharing a synergy cooldown with Necrotic Orb, what is the point of running a Templar healer? The main niche of having a Templar over any other class as a healer was the fact that Templars could support resource management so efficiently. I understand the want to reduce that, but to remove it altogether? That's a bit too far.
I understand that Major Mending was too common, but removing it completely from Templars, the only class that has an entire skill line dedicated to healing, makes no sense.
Overall, I'm very disappointed by the patch notes, and hope that some serious reconsideration is done before it appears on live.
Also, I find it hilarious that the strongest class at the moment (mag sorcs) were completely untouched, while everything else suffered significant nerfs.
The idea is that templar-healers are no longer the only class favored in end-game pve, and making others viable as well (including the warden).
This is inaccurate. Live Templars are not favored for end game dps (magsorcs are king), nor as tanks (DKs or NBs are better). Thus, the only role in which Templars are currently favored is healing, due to resource support.
With these changes, Templars will not be even looked at in any of the categories. Why have a Templar at all?
Templars will still be great in healing, even with these changes go through. I think people will run like 1 Templar healer 1 Warden/DK healer in vet trials, as there's no need for 2 templar healers anymore.
I doubt it. Everything that defined a Templar has been either removed completely or nerfed significantly.
There will not be a reason to run a Templar over a Warden.
Nope, everything that made Templar healers overperforming compared to other classes (DK, sorc, NB healers) has been nerfed.
It depends on Warden's major mending uptime. If it's high, then I have a serious problem with that, as we just replace a de facto healer with another de facto healer, nothing has changed. If it's low, then Warden and DK will compete for a healer spot, while Templar takes another spot, because AOE minor magicka steal, minor sorcery, minor mending are still very important.
I am completely against having a class as the only viable healer, whether it's Warden or Templar.
My suggestion is that: Restro skill tree needs a 20-second Major Mending buff. That will be a buff for Templar healers, while giving other classes a chance in healing.
Aldmeri Dominion Loyalist. For the Queen!2 - Aedric Spear
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amasuriel✭✭✭✭People, hakuna those tatas!
Since we're talking PTS patch notes here, anything we've read can and probably will be changed before 6/6/'17. It seems as though ZOS is steering towards a different play-style for some established classes/builds with the introduction of the Warden. Which, to me, is reasonable and to be expected. Balancing the game is hard, even when you're not introducing new classes etc., so at least give them the opportunity to try.
And let's hold off on the torches and pitchforks until there's actually something to burn, eh?
But there is something to burn. Sometimes even when feedback is universally negative about a chance they will proceed anyway. If you think the changes in the patch notes are bad, and you don't scream at the top of your lungs, you cannot be surprised if they go out...I mean enough people at ZOS thought all these ideas were good that they got coded into the game. It's not like it was just a brainstorming session.1 -
clocksstoppe✭✭✭✭✭
✭Reasons to still use a Templar Healer:
- Radiant Aura
- Shards
- Breath of Life (180' isn't that problematic since we're casting Combat Prayer towards the group from the same position)
- Additional Minor Sorcery source
This alone is enough.
Elemental drain is the same as aura.
Orbs are now literally the same as shards.
Why would you now bother with breath of life instead of using combat prayer exclusively?
Edited by clocksstoppe on April 19, 2017 4:45AM3 -
hmsdragonfly✭✭✭✭✭
✭clocksstoppe wrote: »Reasons to still use a Templar Healer:
- Radiant Aura
- Shards
- Breath of Life (180' isn't that problematic since we're casting Combat Prayer towards the group from the same position)
- Additional Minor Sorcery source
This alone is enough.
Elemental drain is the same as aura.
Orbs are now literally the same as shards.
Why would you now bother with breath of life instead of using combat prayer exclusively?
It means other classes will be able to heal, not just Templar.
Restro skill tree needs a 20-second Major Mending buff. That will be a buff for Templar healers, while giving other classes a chance in healing.
Ele drain isn't the same, it's not AOE.Aldmeri Dominion Loyalist. For the Queen!0 -
AL16✭✭✭Just pray and wait patiently until 3.1....Guess that's the only solution.Joined 2015, didn't play a lot and quit. Returned recently
Stamblade main, trying out other builds atm.0 -
Lightspeedflashb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Uhm. Read the bolded part again. Both morphs are affected.
Conceded and that's not what I would have done. I would have left one morph pbaoe so that there's an additional effect morph of both styles.
Though at least you can just not morph it if you prefer pbaoe.And yet Wardens will get perma major mending, but you don't seem to have a problem with that.
Why lie? That's sad and desperate.
Wardens can only get class-derived major mending by healing someone under 50% health and if you're throwing out heals to people who are that heavily wounded constantly - which you would need to maintain it permanently - then something's probably horribly wrong.Templars have no source of Major Mending now, aside from heavy attacking with the restoration staff.
Nightblades and sorcerers have had to suffer that pretty much since the introduction of the major mending buff.
Now everyone is on a more equal footing. Awesome.
Where is Templar's Hardened Ward then? That would be equal footing
http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/blazing+shield
Yes, a 6k ward is the same as a 22k Ward, thanks for pointing that out.3 -
austinwalter87ub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭Cancelled my account. Later.PC and PS4 (bring back character transfers please?)
Templar Extraordinaire2 -
hmsdragonfly✭✭✭✭✭
✭Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Uhm. Read the bolded part again. Both morphs are affected.
Conceded and that's not what I would have done. I would have left one morph pbaoe so that there's an additional effect morph of both styles.
Though at least you can just not morph it if you prefer pbaoe.And yet Wardens will get perma major mending, but you don't seem to have a problem with that.
Why lie? That's sad and desperate.
Wardens can only get class-derived major mending by healing someone under 50% health and if you're throwing out heals to people who are that heavily wounded constantly - which you would need to maintain it permanently - then something's probably horribly wrong.Templars have no source of Major Mending now, aside from heavy attacking with the restoration staff.
Nightblades and sorcerers have had to suffer that pretty much since the introduction of the major mending buff.
Now everyone is on a more equal footing. Awesome.
Where is Templar's Hardened Ward then? That would be equal footing
http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/blazing+shield
Yes, a 6k ward is the same as a 22k Ward, thanks for pointing that out.
Hardened Ward doesn't go boom and kill people. So there's that xDEdited by hmsdragonfly on April 19, 2017 6:32AMAldmeri Dominion Loyalist. For the Queen!0 -
Coilbox✭✭✭✭KochDerDamonen wrote: »So repentance no longer restores stamina to the group, shards and orbs share the same timer...Ugh
The only good thing I like us now shards will give templars resources. At a cost.KochDerDamonen wrote: »This is a good thing.
Templars were never good healers/supports, they've been broken. Any class can dps, any class can tank (DK and NB moreso in vTrials) but you might maybe see a sorc off-healer rarely.
Down with the op free sustain
You are the only one that thinks they are not good healers lol
@Cêltic421 Broken, I said they are not good but broken. As in, they were grossly outperforming other classes while the other classes were mostly incapable of filling the healer role in serious content at all.
Sorry if I worded this in an unclear way.
Awh FFS why in heaven would you pick another class for 'serious content' healing if you have a damn class with a full skill line dedicated only to heal and support?? Yeah, ZOS promotes that *** of 'play as you want' but cmon! what kind of elite raid would use a sorc or a DK healer for veteran Maw of Lorkhaj?
Serious content requires the best class/race, and any other class with a resto staff wont ever be as competent as a Templar in the role of Heal/Support...and that doesnt justify all these nonsense nerfs.
The only reason for this is promoting the warden at the cost of nerfing everything else to ****. Period.Comrade, a word...4 -
Lightspeedflashb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭hmsdragonfly wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Uhm. Read the bolded part again. Both morphs are affected.
Conceded and that's not what I would have done. I would have left one morph pbaoe so that there's an additional effect morph of both styles.
Though at least you can just not morph it if you prefer pbaoe.And yet Wardens will get perma major mending, but you don't seem to have a problem with that.
Why lie? That's sad and desperate.
Wardens can only get class-derived major mending by healing someone under 50% health and if you're throwing out heals to people who are that heavily wounded constantly - which you would need to maintain it permanently - then something's probably horribly wrong.Templars have no source of Major Mending now, aside from heavy attacking with the restoration staff.
Nightblades and sorcerers have had to suffer that pretty much since the introduction of the major mending buff.
Now everyone is on a more equal footing. Awesome.
Where is Templar's Hardened Ward then? That would be equal footing
http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/blazing+shield
Yes, a 6k ward is the same as a 22k Ward, thanks for pointing that out.
Hardened Ward doesn't go boom and kill people. So there's that xD
that 6k ward does half that as damage, please get real, that is nothing.2 -
R1DD1CK✭✭KochDerDamonen wrote: »So repentance no longer restores stamina to the group, shards and orbs share the same timer...Ugh
The only good thing I like us now shards will give templars resources. At a cost.KochDerDamonen wrote: »This is a good thing.
Templars were never good healers/supports, they've been broken. Any class can dps, any class can tank (DK and NB moreso in vTrials) but you might maybe see a sorc off-healer rarely.
Down with the op free sustain
You are the only one that thinks they are not good healers lol
@Cêltic421 Broken, I said they are not good but broken. As in, they were grossly outperforming other classes while the other classes were mostly incapable of filling the healer role in serious content at all.
Sorry if I worded this in an unclear way.
Infact other classes shouldn't perform the healing role , Templars were the class meant to be Healers .5 -
Illurian✭✭✭✭✭
✭hmsdragonfly wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »
Templar- Aedric Spear
- Spear Shards: The synergy from this ability and its morphs now restore Stamina or Magicka, whichever percentage is lower. The amount restored is now based on your character level instead of your Max Resource. The synergy also has a shared cooldown with the Necrotic Orb synergy.
- Luminous Shards (Spear Shards morph): This morph now causes the synergy to also restore an equal amount of Magicka or Stamina to the casting Templar, with a 20-second cooldown.
Developer Comments:This reduces the need to have a Templar to constantly feed Stamina to your Stamina DPS and Tank, while making the Spear Shards synergy more useful to Magicka builds.
- Dawn’s Wrath
- Eclipse:
- This ability and its morphs now last for 3.5 seconds, down from 6 seconds, but can no longer be removed with Break Free. After the effect ends, enemies will gain CC-immunity.
- Reduced the cost of this ability and its morphs by approximately 20%.
- Power of the Light (Backlash morph): Fixed an issue where the damage from this morph could be dodged.
- Purifying Light (Backlash morph): Fixed an issue where the heal from this morph could not critically strike.
- Eclipse:
- Restoring Light
- Mending: This passive ability now increases the healing done by Restoring Light abilities by 6/12% based on the target’s missing health, up from 5/10%.
- Repentance (Restoring Aura morph): This morph now restores Health and Stamina based on your character level instead of your Max Resource. It also only restores Stamina to the casting Templar, but continues to restore Health to the casting Templar and his allies.
Developer Comments:This will be a buff if your Maximum Stamina is below 29,700 and a nerf if it is above.
- Rushed Ceremony: This ability and its morphs now heal friendly targets in a 180 degree cone in front of you, instead of all targets in a radius around you.
Developer Comments:Rushed Ceremony has been an extremely potent heal, and we wanted to adjust its effectiveness without making the ability heal for less. With these goals in mind, we made it so the ability only heals targets in front of the Templar. This makes the ability require more strategic positioning and gives the healer more control over who gets healed. You can now position yourself to ensure an ally being attacked will be healed, rather than another player standing in the back.
- Sacred Ground: This passive ability now grants Minor Mending instead of Major Mending when you are standing in your Cleansing Ritual, Rune Focus, or Rite of Passage areas of effect.
Developer Comments:With a similar goal to reducing uptime on Major Mending as noted with the Igneous Shield change, Templars having 100% uptime on Major Mending by just standing within their areas of protection is stronger than we’d like and is one of the reasons they are the most desirable healer in endgame situations. We’ve changed the bonus to Minor Mending instead, but have increased the bonus from the Mending passive to compensate slightly.
The one silver lining I saw with the Morrowind CP changes was the fact that Templars would still be able to aid in resource management. However, with Repentance no longer restoring stamina to the group, and Spear Shards sharing a synergy cooldown with Necrotic Orb, what is the point of running a Templar healer? The main niche of having a Templar over any other class as a healer was the fact that Templars could support resource management so efficiently. I understand the want to reduce that, but to remove it altogether? That's a bit too far.
I understand that Major Mending was too common, but removing it completely from Templars, the only class that has an entire skill line dedicated to healing, makes no sense.
Overall, I'm very disappointed by the patch notes, and hope that some serious reconsideration is done before it appears on live.
Also, I find it hilarious that the strongest class at the moment (mag sorcs) were completely untouched, while everything else suffered significant nerfs.
The idea is that templar-healers are no longer the only class favored in end-game pve, and making others viable as well (including the warden).
This is inaccurate. Live Templars are not favored for end game dps (magsorcs are king), nor as tanks (DKs or NBs are better). Thus, the only role in which Templars are currently favored is healing, due to resource support.
With these changes, Templars will not be even looked at in any of the categories. Why have a Templar at all?
Templars will still be great in healing, even with these changes go through. I think people will run like 1 Templar healer 1 Warden/DK healer in vet trials, as there's no need for 2 templar healers anymore.
I doubt it. Everything that defined a Templar has been either removed completely or nerfed significantly.
There will not be a reason to run a Templar over a Warden.
Nope, everything that made Templar healers overperforming compared to other classes (DK, sorc, NB healers) has been nerfed.
It depends on Warden's major mending uptime. If it's high, then I have a serious problem with that, as we just replace a de facto healer with another de facto healer, nothing has changed. If it's low, then Warden and DK will compete for a healer spot, while Templar takes another spot, because AOE minor magicka steal, minor sorcery, minor mending are still very important.
I am completely against having a class as the only viable healer, whether it's Warden or Templar.
My suggestion is that: Restro skill tree needs a 20-second Major Mending buff. That will be a buff for Templar healers, while giving other classes a chance in healing.
All Wardens have to do is literally heal to get Major Mending. Yes, their allies have to be below 50%, but if they aren't, chances are you won't need Major Mending. Wardens will have it where it counts. Templars legitimately have zero ways of getting Major Mending aside from heavy attacking with the Restoration Staff. That's just a tad ridiculous.
I am not against your suggestion of having a reliable source of Major Mending in the Restoration Staff skill line.Kiss the chaos.0 - Aedric Spear
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Magdalina✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Uhm. Read the bolded part again. Both morphs are affected.
Conceded and that's not what I would have done. I would have left one morph pbaoe so that there's an additional effect morph of both styles.
Though at least you can just not morph it if you prefer pbaoe.And yet Wardens will get perma major mending, but you don't seem to have a problem with that.
Why lie? That's sad and desperate.
Wardens can only get class-derived major mending by healing someone under 50% health and if you're throwing out heals to people who are that heavily wounded constantly - which you would need to maintain it permanently - then something's probably horribly wrong.Templars have no source of Major Mending now, aside from heavy attacking with the restoration staff.
Nightblades and sorcerers have had to suffer that pretty much since the introduction of the major mending buff.
Now everyone is on a more equal footing. Awesome.
Where is Templar's Hardened Ward then? That would be equal footing
http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/blazing+shield
Yes, a 6k ward is the same as a 22k Ward, thanks for pointing that out.
Hardened Ward doesn't go boom and kill people. So there's that xD
that 6k ward does half that as damage, please get real, that is nothing.
Far as whole templar (also NB and DK) Hardened, it's called Annulment, not Blazing. It's pretty much the same as Hardened except heaps cheaper if morphed to Harness Magicka. That's what they've been doing, taking class defining abilities and nerfing them/buffing others to where they're no longer class unique and special. The sorc shield is no longer unique to sorcs and personally I'm not sure I like it, and I've been playing my templars more than my sorc lately. I will admit sorc have other things going for them and it doesn't make any sense there was no "balancing" for sorc in this patch.
Templar stamina support is no longer unique to templar, it's same exact treatment as sorc shields. Major Mending is basically gone from the base game classes. These changes would actually be fine(I do NOT actually like them trying to homogenise the game but that's the route they're taking and nothing to be done I guess) if there wasn't a very potent healing class with these buffs coming out at the same time that you gotta buy for real money. That just makes these moves seem like a cheap, mean cashgrab.
Oh and I'm absolutely boggled by BoL change. What? They already fixed(or tried to at least) its healing through walls by making it require LoS, why nerf it to frontal "cone" while, say, sorc Twilight still heals everything around? I'm not even bringing Warden into equation, I don't have pts and viability of bol vs Warden heals is going to depend on how much burst healing Wardens can do(as far as I gather, they have heaps of healing but it's all HoTs?), but even from base game classes, Twilightdoes same exact thing as BoL(pure numbers wise her heals are actually even stronger) and she even provides mag regen buff iirc, yet she didn't get same treatment?o.O That makes no sense whatsoever. ...maybe I'll just replace my templar healer with sorc healer next patch
2 -
Lightspeedflashb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Uhm. Read the bolded part again. Both morphs are affected.
Conceded and that's not what I would have done. I would have left one morph pbaoe so that there's an additional effect morph of both styles.
Though at least you can just not morph it if you prefer pbaoe.And yet Wardens will get perma major mending, but you don't seem to have a problem with that.
Why lie? That's sad and desperate.
Wardens can only get class-derived major mending by healing someone under 50% health and if you're throwing out heals to people who are that heavily wounded constantly - which you would need to maintain it permanently - then something's probably horribly wrong.Templars have no source of Major Mending now, aside from heavy attacking with the restoration staff.
Nightblades and sorcerers have had to suffer that pretty much since the introduction of the major mending buff.
Now everyone is on a more equal footing. Awesome.
Where is Templar's Hardened Ward then? That would be equal footing
http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/blazing+shield
Yes, a 6k ward is the same as a 22k Ward, thanks for pointing that out.
Hardened Ward doesn't go boom and kill people. So there's that xD
that 6k ward does half that as damage, please get real, that is nothing.
Far as whole templar (also NB and DK) Hardened, it's called Annulment, not Blazing. .
Templar stamina support is no longer unique to templar, it's same exact treatment as sorc shields. Major Mending is basically gone from the base game classes. These changes would actually be fine(I do NOT actually like them trying to homogenise the game but that's the route they're taking and nothing to be done I guess) if there wasn't a very potent healing class with these buffs coming out at the same time that you gotta buy for real money. That just makes these moves seem like a cheap, mean cashgrab.
Obviously we were talking about in class versions.
You can NOT compare what they did with hardened and harness to what they are going to do with shards and orbs. As a sorc you can stack both hardened and harness and get like 40 to 50k of sheilds, the way it is now, you CANNOT stack shards and orbs. So literally not the same. Maybe if they let shards and orbs stack, IE be on a different synergy cooldown timer, they would be compareable. But they are not, so it really renders shards moot. It would be the same if sorcs could NOT stack hardened and harness.
They need to revert the repentance Stam sharing and the shards being on the same cool down timer as orbs to keep Templar healers relevant, it is really that simple. The loss of major mending is bad but most of the time healers were overhealing anyways.
1 -
ArchMikem✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭This makes the ability require more strategic positioning and gives the healer more control over who gets healed. You can now position yourself to ensure an ally being attacked will be healed, rather than another player standing in the back.
What does it matter if it heals the player standing in the back? It heals everyone around you at the same time, that's why it's the "Oh crap!" moment Heal where you mash it if you notice your group is about to wipe.
But you know what this makes me think of? ZOS watched this,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DxS7eT_ky4
Especially Lesson #6: You are a God. ZOS is helping us choose who we Heal and who is left in the red begging for mercy.
CP2,000 Master Explorer - AvA One Star General - Console Peasant - The Clan
Quest Objective: OMG Go Talk To That Kitty!0 -
Phinix1✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭lunalitetempler wrote: »
Warden Major Mending comes from the Green Balance passive Accelerated Growth: "When healing you or an ally under 50% Health with a Green Balance ability gain Major Mending, increasing your healing done by 25% for 6 seconds."
It seems to me that in PVP (where it really matters, let's be honest) this will see near 100% uptime, especially when you or a team mate is focused, as damage is fast and heavy. ZOS claims "it was too easy for the Templar to just stand in their house while healing and get Major Mending?" The Warden doesn't even have to stand in anything, JUST HEAL.
It is EASIER for Warden to maintain Major Mending NOW than it was for Tempalr pre-nerf.
So I have to assume the rationale then is that it is OK for 100% Major Mending uptime in PVP, but not PVE?
OK, so why not allow Templar's to keep their 100% "house" uptime of Major Mending when in PVP?
If the argument is that it is too strong in PVE I still don't see how this is really fair or rational. Healers have by far the most difficult role in the group. They have to worry about positioning, buffs, debuffs, heals, not dying, doing damage, all at the same time. They are an even more difficult role to master in challenging content then tanks in many ways, though it is a close synergy between the two.
I ask you, Zenimax, if it doesn't matter that Warden will have essentially 100% uptime on Major Mending in PVP, then why did you feel it was necessary to take it from Templar in PVP, and why should this even be considered for PVE nerfing as it accomplishes nothing other than making the most challenging and tedious role a little more accessible to the majority of players?
Wouldn't that tend to improve queue times and increase access to more content most people completely miss out on by making more capable healers available for pick up groups and guilds?
Seems to me like a case of nerfing for the sake of nerfing without really thinking it through.
Edited by Phinix1 on April 19, 2017 9:12AM7 -
Magdalina✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Uhm. Read the bolded part again. Both morphs are affected.
Conceded and that's not what I would have done. I would have left one morph pbaoe so that there's an additional effect morph of both styles.
Though at least you can just not morph it if you prefer pbaoe.And yet Wardens will get perma major mending, but you don't seem to have a problem with that.
Why lie? That's sad and desperate.
Wardens can only get class-derived major mending by healing someone under 50% health and if you're throwing out heals to people who are that heavily wounded constantly - which you would need to maintain it permanently - then something's probably horribly wrong.Templars have no source of Major Mending now, aside from heavy attacking with the restoration staff.
Nightblades and sorcerers have had to suffer that pretty much since the introduction of the major mending buff.
Now everyone is on a more equal footing. Awesome.
Where is Templar's Hardened Ward then? That would be equal footing
http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/blazing+shield
Yes, a 6k ward is the same as a 22k Ward, thanks for pointing that out.
Hardened Ward doesn't go boom and kill people. So there's that xD
that 6k ward does half that as damage, please get real, that is nothing.
Far as whole templar (also NB and DK) Hardened, it's called Annulment, not Blazing. .
Templar stamina support is no longer unique to templar, it's same exact treatment as sorc shields. Major Mending is basically gone from the base game classes. These changes would actually be fine(I do NOT actually like them trying to homogenise the game but that's the route they're taking and nothing to be done I guess) if there wasn't a very potent healing class with these buffs coming out at the same time that you gotta buy for real money. That just makes these moves seem like a cheap, mean cashgrab.
Obviously we were talking about in class versions.
You can NOT compare what they did with hardened and harness to what they are going to do with shards and orbs. As a sorc you can stack both hardened and harness and get like 40 to 50k of sheilds, the way it is now, you CANNOT stack shards and orbs. So literally not the same. Maybe if they let shards and orbs stack, IE be on a different synergy cooldown timer, they would be compareable. But they are not, so it really renders shards moot. It would be the same if sorcs could NOT stack hardened and harness.
They need to revert the repentance Stam sharing and the shards being on the same cool down timer as orbs to keep Templar healers relevant, it is really that simple. The loss of major mending is bad but most of the time healers were overhealing anyways.
True for the shieldstacking. However not very relevant in PvE because there's no point in stacking 6 second shields in PvE and now my magsorc actually often just runs Harness instead of Hardened when needed. So that change is in line with the shield one. Which doesn't make either of them good because like someone already said, ESO is stuck between ZOS trying to make game versatile where every class has their unique things and trying to "balance" it to where everyone can do the same, just by using different skills. Well and the part where Wardens have skills restoring resources to their allies that other classes don't...yeah.
(Far as PvP goes, shards/orbs aren't widely used there for sustain anyway)0 -
Lightspeedflashb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Uhm. Read the bolded part again. Both morphs are affected.
Conceded and that's not what I would have done. I would have left one morph pbaoe so that there's an additional effect morph of both styles.
Though at least you can just not morph it if you prefer pbaoe.And yet Wardens will get perma major mending, but you don't seem to have a problem with that.
Why lie? That's sad and desperate.
Wardens can only get class-derived major mending by healing someone under 50% health and if you're throwing out heals to people who are that heavily wounded constantly - which you would need to maintain it permanently - then something's probably horribly wrong.Templars have no source of Major Mending now, aside from heavy attacking with the restoration staff.
Nightblades and sorcerers have had to suffer that pretty much since the introduction of the major mending buff.
Now everyone is on a more equal footing. Awesome.
Where is Templar's Hardened Ward then? That would be equal footing
http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/blazing+shield
Yes, a 6k ward is the same as a 22k Ward, thanks for pointing that out.
Hardened Ward doesn't go boom and kill people. So there's that xD
that 6k ward does half that as damage, please get real, that is nothing.
Far as whole templar (also NB and DK) Hardened, it's called Annulment, not Blazing. .
Templar stamina support is no longer unique to templar, it's same exact treatment as sorc shields. Major Mending is basically gone from the base game classes. These changes would actually be fine(I do NOT actually like them trying to homogenise the game but that's the route they're taking and nothing to be done I guess) if there wasn't a very potent healing class with these buffs coming out at the same time that you gotta buy for real money. That just makes these moves seem like a cheap, mean cashgrab.
Obviously we were talking about in class versions.
You can NOT compare what they did with hardened and harness to what they are going to do with shards and orbs. As a sorc you can stack both hardened and harness and get like 40 to 50k of sheilds, the way it is now, you CANNOT stack shards and orbs. So literally not the same. Maybe if they let shards and orbs stack, IE be on a different synergy cooldown timer, they would be compareable. But they are not, so it really renders shards moot. It would be the same if sorcs could NOT stack hardened and harness.
They need to revert the repentance Stam sharing and the shards being on the same cool down timer as orbs to keep Templar healers relevant, it is really that simple. The loss of major mending is bad but most of the time healers were overhealing anyways.
True for the shieldstacking. However not very relevant in PvE because there's no point in stacking 6 second shields in PvE and now my magsorc actually often just runs Harness instead of Hardened when needed.
(Far as PvP goes, shards/orbs aren't widely used there for sustain anyway)
Shards are absolutely used in small scale PvP for this reason, though you might not consider this to be "widely". I don't watch much streamers but the little I did of deltia and fengrush playing together, repentance and shards were a huge deal.
My sorc also runs harness now too, cause of the pet changes, the scamp survives much better now and doesn't need a ward. Though for pve the only time I use a ward is in vMA, the rest of the time I have a healer and with a healer and power surge, is more then enough to survive.
My point is that you CAN stack them to a greater effect then sun sheild/harness I might add, not that you NEED/WANT to, were you CAN'T stack orbs and shards, even if you NEEDED/WANTED to.
Edited by Lightspeedflashb14_ESO on April 19, 2017 9:41AM0 -
F7sus4✭✭✭✭✭
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This is relatively narrow-minded reasoning.clocksstoppe wrote: »Elemental drain is the same as aura.
Orbs are now literally the same as shards.
Why would you now bother with breath of life instead of using combat prayer exclusively?
1) Radiant Aura is applied as AoE with 1 cast whereas Elemental Drain requires spamming on each single target. Of course the Drain is needed when tank uses Inner Rage solely because of Major Breach debuff.
2) Shards are thrown to the tank as a here-and-now spell whereas Orbs need to reach the place first with a chance of being either used by other DD or reaching target location too late.
3) Breath of Life over Combat Prayer because of significantly stronger single-target burst (BoL is ca. 2x stronger) and also bigger radius (180' > 8x20m).Edited by F7sus4 on April 19, 2017 10:09AM0 -
peak99✭✭✭So warden gets EASY access to major mending.
But the class with an entire skill line for healing does not.
LOL. Warden is pay-walled, yeah?9 -
technohic✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
This is relatively narrow-minded reasoning.clocksstoppe wrote: »Elemental drain is the same as aura.
Orbs are now literally the same as shards.
Why would you now bother with breath of life instead of using combat prayer exclusively?
1) Radiant Aura is applied as AoE with 1 cast whereas Elemental Drain requires spamming on each single target. Of course the Drain is needed when tank uses Inner Rage solely because of Major Breach debuff.
2) Shards are thrown to the tank as a here-and-now spell whereas Orbs need to reach the place first with a chance of being either used by other DD or reaching target location too late.
3) Breath of Life over Combat Prayer because of significantly stronger single-target burst (BoL is ca. 2x stronger) and also bigger radius (180' > 8x20m).
You don't need an AOE magic steal as generally you are either focusing a target or AOEing a bunch down to where you likely will hit the one with ele drain on it and steal doesn't stack. And ele drain is free and does not agro anything let alone the entire room.
Then taking radiant aura means no repentance for that stam return, but that's gone as well now.
As far as the rest goes; they are certainly convenient but we are sitting here with an entire tree dedicated to just convenience now in Templars main role. Still will work in PVE but PVP it's dropping as well along with major maim coming spammable and stacking with sets.1 -
PantokratorSoul ShrivenPlease remove Cloak from nightblades.
They are the only ones who have an infight tool to get into stealth and that is not fair.
If the healer class cannot have the major healer buff, why should the stealth class have a means to stealth?
Also, DKs shouldn't be able to carry shields.Edited by Pantokrator on April 19, 2017 10:35AM6
