What's the point of running Templar healers now? (PTS natch potes)

Kneighbors

Repentance is less viable than Aura.

Overall I like the patch notes. The game was too easy before. My templar healer was OP in PvE and the nerfs didn't affect much of his performance. In worst case we are talking about 10% nerf.

Templar will be still strongest healing class besides possibly Warden.

If they want Warden to be strongest healing class then I can understand them.

I'm bored with my temp heal, I'll gladly make a new Warden heal to have him as a primary healer.

If Warden won't be the top heal or tank after the next update I see no point in bringing this class into game. I'll make both tank and heal builds and I'm happy ZoS want them to be viable.

danno8

Illurian wrote: »

Rickter wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno

no one uses the healing ultimate. its Warhorn or nova or gtfo.

so listing that "and their Ultimate heal hits targets in a 28m radius instead of 8 meters" is just fluff to make people feel better.

It's even incorrect. It has a 20m radius, not 28m, and one morph has an even smaller radius of 12m. (According to the wiki)

In-game they both have a tool tip for 20m. Just checked the PTS.

Gomumon

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Our combat system features fast-paced action where resource management plays a large part in performing effectively. Player abilities in ESO specifically do not have cooldowns for this very reason - resource management is a core pillar of the system. Due to the number of balance changes we’ve made over time, this core pillar of resource management has become trivialized in that it’s become easier than ever to have nearly infinite sustainability while still being fully maximized for damage. The overall goal here is to have a combat system that reinforces decision making and resource management.

If the goal is "fast-paced action," lowering damage, removing cost reduction, lowering regen, and nerfing resource scaling and synergies all at once seems like a recipe for slow-paced action. Slowing down your parses, doing more heavy attacks, standing still so you can be hit with BOL, and dealing less damage because you need to wear Seducer instead of Julianos/BSW makes the game less dynamic, not more. It's just going to make for even longer runs for content already difficult for the players you're trying to get up to speed. Maybe nerf resources but leave EE/Might alone. As it stands, however, everything about this screams "slow down!"

masterbroodub17_ESO

Gomumon wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Our combat system features fast-paced action where resource management plays a large part in performing effectively. Player abilities in ESO specifically do not have cooldowns for this very reason - resource management is a core pillar of the system. Due to the number of balance changes we’ve made over time, this core pillar of resource management has become trivialized in that it’s become easier than ever to have nearly infinite sustainability while still being fully maximized for damage. The overall goal here is to have a combat system that reinforces decision making and resource management.

If the goal is "fast-paced action," lowering damage, removing cost reduction, lowering regen, and nerfing resource scaling and synergies all at once seems like a recipe for slow-paced action. Slowing down your parses, doing more heavy attacks, standing still so you can be hit with BOL, and dealing less damage because you need to wear Seducer instead of Julianos/BSW makes the game less dynamic, not more. It's just going to make for even longer runs for content already difficult for the players you're trying to get up to speed. Maybe nerf resources but leave EE/Might alone. As it stands, however, everything about this screams "slow down!"

Nowhere there does it say that the goal is fast paced action, that's simply how they describe their combat system. Whether or not you agree is one thing but again, never says they're trying to speed things up. In fact what it DOES say is a focus on resource management is the goal, so.....

Gomumon

masterbroodub17_ESO wrote: »

Gomumon wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Our combat system features fast-paced action where resource management plays a large part in performing effectively. Player abilities in ESO specifically do not have cooldowns for this very reason - resource management is a core pillar of the system. Due to the number of balance changes we’ve made over time, this core pillar of resource management has become trivialized in that it’s become easier than ever to have nearly infinite sustainability while still being fully maximized for damage. The overall goal here is to have a combat system that reinforces decision making and resource management.

If the goal is "fast-paced action," lowering damage, removing cost reduction, lowering regen, and nerfing resource scaling and synergies all at once seems like a recipe for slow-paced action. Slowing down your parses, doing more heavy attacks, standing still so you can be hit with BOL, and dealing less damage because you need to wear Seducer instead of Julianos/BSW makes the game less dynamic, not more. It's just going to make for even longer runs for content already difficult for the players you're trying to get up to speed. Maybe nerf resources but leave EE/Might alone. As it stands, however, everything about this screams "slow down!"

Nowhere there does it say that the goal is fast paced action, that's simply how they describe their combat system. Whether or not you agree is one thing but again, never says they're trying to speed things up. In fact what it DOES say is a focus on resource management is the goal, so.....

"Combat in ESO is, and has always been, about fast-paced action..." - @ZOS_GinaBruno

To remain fast paced, they implemented resource management over cooldowns, but feel that resource management is now trivialized. However, the focus is still fast-paced, exciting combat. And, again, what they're doing now will contradict that.

linoge63

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

On a serious note....I'm done with this game.

I need to figure out how to cancel Morrowind possibly as well.

If y'all need anything I'll read the forums but moving to Elite Dangerous and some GR Wildlands off and on

Elite dangerous? Yur kidding right? Have you been there recently? Isn't that like jumping from the pan into the fire?
(facepalm)

masterbroodub17_ESO

Gomumon wrote: »

masterbroodub17_ESO wrote: »

Gomumon wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Our combat system features fast-paced action where resource management plays a large part in performing effectively. Player abilities in ESO specifically do not have cooldowns for this very reason - resource management is a core pillar of the system. Due to the number of balance changes we’ve made over time, this core pillar of resource management has become trivialized in that it’s become easier than ever to have nearly infinite sustainability while still being fully maximized for damage. The overall goal here is to have a combat system that reinforces decision making and resource management.

If the goal is "fast-paced action," lowering damage, removing cost reduction, lowering regen, and nerfing resource scaling and synergies all at once seems like a recipe for slow-paced action. Slowing down your parses, doing more heavy attacks, standing still so you can be hit with BOL, and dealing less damage because you need to wear Seducer instead of Julianos/BSW makes the game less dynamic, not more. It's just going to make for even longer runs for content already difficult for the players you're trying to get up to speed. Maybe nerf resources but leave EE/Might alone. As it stands, however, everything about this screams "slow down!"

Nowhere there does it say that the goal is fast paced action, that's simply how they describe their combat system. Whether or not you agree is one thing but again, never says they're trying to speed things up. In fact what it DOES say is a focus on resource management is the goal, so.....

"Combat in ESO is, and has always been, about fast-paced action..." - @ZOS_GinaBruno

To remain fast paced, they implemented resource management over cooldowns, but feel that resource management is now trivialized. However, the focus is still fast-paced, exciting combat. And, again, what they're doing now will contradict that.

That's really subjective. "Fast paced" to you obviously means infinitely spamming skills, whereas to me it means the pace at which combat happens is fast, regardless of how spammy it is. Then there's ttk which is another topic entirely

Gomumon

masterbroodub17_ESO wrote: »

Gomumon wrote: »

masterbroodub17_ESO wrote: »

Gomumon wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Our combat system features fast-paced action where resource management plays a large part in performing effectively. Player abilities in ESO specifically do not have cooldowns for this very reason - resource management is a core pillar of the system. Due to the number of balance changes we’ve made over time, this core pillar of resource management has become trivialized in that it’s become easier than ever to have nearly infinite sustainability while still being fully maximized for damage. The overall goal here is to have a combat system that reinforces decision making and resource management.

If the goal is "fast-paced action," lowering damage, removing cost reduction, lowering regen, and nerfing resource scaling and synergies all at once seems like a recipe for slow-paced action. Slowing down your parses, doing more heavy attacks, standing still so you can be hit with BOL, and dealing less damage because you need to wear Seducer instead of Julianos/BSW makes the game less dynamic, not more. It's just going to make for even longer runs for content already difficult for the players you're trying to get up to speed. Maybe nerf resources but leave EE/Might alone. As it stands, however, everything about this screams "slow down!"

Nowhere there does it say that the goal is fast paced action, that's simply how they describe their combat system. Whether or not you agree is one thing but again, never says they're trying to speed things up. In fact what it DOES say is a focus on resource management is the goal, so.....

"Combat in ESO is, and has always been, about fast-paced action..." - @ZOS_GinaBruno

To remain fast paced, they implemented resource management over cooldowns, but feel that resource management is now trivialized. However, the focus is still fast-paced, exciting combat. And, again, what they're doing now will contradict that.

That's really subjective. "Fast paced" to you obviously means infinitely spamming skills, whereas to me it means the pace at which combat happens is fast, regardless of how spammy it is. Then there's ttk which is another topic entirely

It's not. They literally said they allow for quick casting to feel fast paced, which is why they added resource management instead of universal cooldowns like many other MMOs have. You're the one taking something pretty cut and dry and trying to reshape it to mean what you want it to.

Catches_the_Sun

masterbroodub17_ESO wrote: »

Catches_the_Sun wrote: »

Alchemical wrote: »

If you play Templar because it's the objectively strongest healer and/or it was easy to play, well, then go play Warden for your easy mode flavor of the month. Then in a few patches it'll get nerf'd back into line and people will cry "Why even run a Warden when Templar is so much better now?"

Sorry, I don't do this "flavor of the month" nonsense. I have a character that I've invested years of play into, that has high end achievements that I had hoped to continue to build on. Getting everything I needed for this character has been a daunting task for me. I've put way too many hours into this character to just sideline him and pick up another healer because ZoS decided to nerf me to hell & back to sell their DLC class.

Our 4-man group has just completed some nice vet dungeons with only Ruins of Mazzatun remaining...and now I am to be told that we have to just suck it up with these changes, learn to how to respec our builds, farm new gear, learn new rotations, etc, just to continue to maybe be able to do the same content in the future that we're already doing today? Our tank will have to relearn how to block, have to farm new gear, have to manage resources that I can no longer give him. Our Stamblade DPS will decrease drastically, and he'll be out of resources too, likely also have to farm new gear. I think I'll pass on that. It's taken us months to get to this point. To start over does not sound at all appealing to me. I thought we really were accomplishing something, and I'm not sure I have the energy or motivation to start that process over again.

It's akin to being in an abusive relationship...ZoS comes back in this thread after smacking us down and says "hey, we still love you, honest!", but it doesn't feel right to continue to throw money at them. The crazy thing is that I've already preordered Morrowind, and planned to check out the Warden as an alt...but not at the expense of losing my beloved main character's strengths & identity.

Every game goes through major shake-ups throughout it's lifespan. In a game like this it's felt much more because of the amount of freedom you get. It has a price, and that price is that when even one skill is changed by something as small as 2% the entire meta shifts.
It's the nature of the beast in a game like this, suck it up buttercup.

I am not new to MMO's. Been playing them since UO/Everquest. This is the first time that I've felt this way about any DLC patches in all those years. I've had classes or abilities that were legitimately overpowered, and were rightfully adjusted. This is not that. Gaming is a very competitive market for our time though, and the beauty of it is I don't have to suck it up. I can simply cancel my preorders, unsub, and play something else that feels more rewarding and less dirty. So no, I don't have to suck it up. ZoS does.

@ZOS_GinaBruno

Another thing that has Templars fired up is this statement:

"Group based buffs/synergies - Several of these abilities were near-mandatory in end-game situations and have been adjusted."

Followed by these:

Aedric Spear
Spear Shards: The synergy from this ability and its morphs now restore Stamina or Magicka, whichever percentage is lower. The amount restored is now based on your character level instead of your Max Resource. The synergy also has a shared cooldown with the Necrotic Orb synergy.
Luminous Shards (Spear Shards morph): This morph now causes the synergy to also restore an equal amount of Magicka or Stamina to the casting Templar, with a 20-second cooldown.

Undaunted
Mystic Orb (Necrotic Orb morph): This morph now increases the damage the orb deals.
Necrotic Orb: The synergy from this ability and its morphs now restore Stamina or Magicka to the synergy-user, whichever percentage is lower. The amount restored is now based on your character level instead of your Max Resource. The synergy also has a shared cooldown with the Spear Shards synergy.

Repentance (Restoring Aura morph): This morph now restores Health and Stamina based on your character level instead of your Max Resource. It also only restores Stamina to the casting Templar, but continues to restore Health to the casting Templar and his allies.

Once again, insulting our intelligence by claiming that "several" synergies & group buffs were "near-mandatory" in end-game situations and have been adjusted. Yet you didn't adjust "several" synergies and group buffs...you only adjusted Templar group buffs & synergies, removing Repentance altogether as a group buff, and bastardizing the Spear by putting it on same cooldown as the Orb. Why not just change the original statement to something along these lines:

"Templars bring too much group buff & synergy utility to the table and are desired in end-game situations. Since healing Wardens will fulfill the same role, we've removed any reason to need to bring a Templar with you in those situations. Buy our expansion."

Gomumon

Catches_the_Sun wrote: »

This is the first time that I've felt this way about any DLC patches in all those years. I've had classes or abilities that were legitimately overpowered, and were rightfully adjusted. This is not that. Gaming is a very competitive market for our time though, and the beauty of it is I don't have to suck it up. I can simply cancel my preorders, unsub, and play something else that feels more rewarding and less dirty. So no, I don't have to suck it up. ZoS does.

My sentiments exactly! People are so quick to call you entitled, ignoring the fact that ZOS isn't entitled to anyone's money, either. I cancelled my preorder and my 180 day Plus. While voicing your opinion is your right, I would encourage everyone upset with these changes to do the same. Stop financially supporting a company you're not happy with. It may or may not change the game, but at least you won't be supporting something you don't like--That's your right too. It will make more of a difference than arguing with people who disagree.

max_only

Notice how Nightblades aren't addressed.

masterbroodub17_ESO

Catches_the_Sun wrote: »

masterbroodub17_ESO wrote: »

Catches_the_Sun wrote: »

Alchemical wrote: »

If you play Templar because it's the objectively strongest healer and/or it was easy to play, well, then go play Warden for your easy mode flavor of the month. Then in a few patches it'll get nerf'd back into line and people will cry "Why even run a Warden when Templar is so much better now?"

Sorry, I don't do this "flavor of the month" nonsense. I have a character that I've invested years of play into, that has high end achievements that I had hoped to continue to build on. Getting everything I needed for this character has been a daunting task for me. I've put way too many hours into this character to just sideline him and pick up another healer because ZoS decided to nerf me to hell & back to sell their DLC class.

Our 4-man group has just completed some nice vet dungeons with only Ruins of Mazzatun remaining...and now I am to be told that we have to just suck it up with these changes, learn to how to respec our builds, farm new gear, learn new rotations, etc, just to continue to maybe be able to do the same content in the future that we're already doing today? Our tank will have to relearn how to block, have to farm new gear, have to manage resources that I can no longer give him. Our Stamblade DPS will decrease drastically, and he'll be out of resources too, likely also have to farm new gear. I think I'll pass on that. It's taken us months to get to this point. To start over does not sound at all appealing to me. I thought we really were accomplishing something, and I'm not sure I have the energy or motivation to start that process over again.

It's akin to being in an abusive relationship...ZoS comes back in this thread after smacking us down and says "hey, we still love you, honest!", but it doesn't feel right to continue to throw money at them. The crazy thing is that I've already preordered Morrowind, and planned to check out the Warden as an alt...but not at the expense of losing my beloved main character's strengths & identity.

Every game goes through major shake-ups throughout it's lifespan. In a game like this it's felt much more because of the amount of freedom you get. It has a price, and that price is that when even one skill is changed by something as small as 2% the entire meta shifts.
It's the nature of the beast in a game like this, suck it up buttercup.

I am not new to MMO's. Been playing them since UO/Everquest. This is the first time that I've felt this way about any DLC patches in all those years. I've had classes or abilities that were legitimately overpowered, and were rightfully adjusted. This is not that. Gaming is a very competitive market for our time though, and the beauty of it is I don't have to suck it up. I can simply cancel my preorders, unsub, and play something else that feels more rewarding and less dirty. So no, I don't have to suck it up. ZoS does.

@ZOS_GinaBruno

Another thing that has Templars fired up is this statement:

"Group based buffs/synergies - Several of these abilities were near-mandatory in end-game situations and have been adjusted."

Followed by these:

Aedric Spear
Spear Shards: The synergy from this ability and its morphs now restore Stamina or Magicka, whichever percentage is lower. The amount restored is now based on your character level instead of your Max Resource. The synergy also has a shared cooldown with the Necrotic Orb synergy.
Luminous Shards (Spear Shards morph): This morph now causes the synergy to also restore an equal amount of Magicka or Stamina to the casting Templar, with a 20-second cooldown.

Undaunted
Mystic Orb (Necrotic Orb morph): This morph now increases the damage the orb deals.
Necrotic Orb: The synergy from this ability and its morphs now restore Stamina or Magicka to the synergy-user, whichever percentage is lower. The amount restored is now based on your character level instead of your Max Resource. The synergy also has a shared cooldown with the Spear Shards synergy.

Repentance (Restoring Aura morph): This morph now restores Health and Stamina based on your character level instead of your Max Resource. It also only restores Stamina to the casting Templar, but continues to restore Health to the casting Templar and his allies.

Once again, insulting our intelligence by claiming that "several" synergies & group buffs were "near-mandatory" in end-game situations and have been adjusted. Yet you didn't adjust "several" synergies and group buffs...you only adjusted Templar group buffs & synergies, removing Repentance altogether as a group buff, and bastardizing the Spear by putting it on same cooldown as the Orb. Why not just change the original statement to something along these lines:

"Templars bring too much group buff & synergy utility to the table and are desired in end-game situations. Since healing Wardens will fulfill the same role, we've removed any reason to need to bring a Templar with you in those situations. Buy our expansion."

TL;DR: I'm not meta anymore and I'm going to throw a fit over it.

Welcome to Nightblades since forever.

Gomumon

masterbroodub17_ESO wrote: »

Catches_the_Sun wrote: »

masterbroodub17_ESO wrote: »

Catches_the_Sun wrote: »

Alchemical wrote: »

If you play Templar because it's the objectively strongest healer and/or it was easy to play, well, then go play Warden for your easy mode flavor of the month. Then in a few patches it'll get nerf'd back into line and people will cry "Why even run a Warden when Templar is so much better now?"

Sorry, I don't do this "flavor of the month" nonsense. I have a character that I've invested years of play into, that has high end achievements that I had hoped to continue to build on. Getting everything I needed for this character has been a daunting task for me. I've put way too many hours into this character to just sideline him and pick up another healer because ZoS decided to nerf me to hell & back to sell their DLC class.

Our 4-man group has just completed some nice vet dungeons with only Ruins of Mazzatun remaining...and now I am to be told that we have to just suck it up with these changes, learn to how to respec our builds, farm new gear, learn new rotations, etc, just to continue to maybe be able to do the same content in the future that we're already doing today? Our tank will have to relearn how to block, have to farm new gear, have to manage resources that I can no longer give him. Our Stamblade DPS will decrease drastically, and he'll be out of resources too, likely also have to farm new gear. I think I'll pass on that. It's taken us months to get to this point. To start over does not sound at all appealing to me. I thought we really were accomplishing something, and I'm not sure I have the energy or motivation to start that process over again.

It's akin to being in an abusive relationship...ZoS comes back in this thread after smacking us down and says "hey, we still love you, honest!", but it doesn't feel right to continue to throw money at them. The crazy thing is that I've already preordered Morrowind, and planned to check out the Warden as an alt...but not at the expense of losing my beloved main character's strengths & identity.

Every game goes through major shake-ups throughout it's lifespan. In a game like this it's felt much more because of the amount of freedom you get. It has a price, and that price is that when even one skill is changed by something as small as 2% the entire meta shifts.
It's the nature of the beast in a game like this, suck it up buttercup.

I am not new to MMO's. Been playing them since UO/Everquest. This is the first time that I've felt this way about any DLC patches in all those years. I've had classes or abilities that were legitimately overpowered, and were rightfully adjusted. This is not that. Gaming is a very competitive market for our time though, and the beauty of it is I don't have to suck it up. I can simply cancel my preorders, unsub, and play something else that feels more rewarding and less dirty. So no, I don't have to suck it up. ZoS does.

@ZOS_GinaBruno

Another thing that has Templars fired up is this statement:

"Group based buffs/synergies - Several of these abilities were near-mandatory in end-game situations and have been adjusted."

Followed by these:

Aedric Spear
Spear Shards: The synergy from this ability and its morphs now restore Stamina or Magicka, whichever percentage is lower. The amount restored is now based on your character level instead of your Max Resource. The synergy also has a shared cooldown with the Necrotic Orb synergy.
Luminous Shards (Spear Shards morph): This morph now causes the synergy to also restore an equal amount of Magicka or Stamina to the casting Templar, with a 20-second cooldown.

Undaunted
Mystic Orb (Necrotic Orb morph): This morph now increases the damage the orb deals.
Necrotic Orb: The synergy from this ability and its morphs now restore Stamina or Magicka to the synergy-user, whichever percentage is lower. The amount restored is now based on your character level instead of your Max Resource. The synergy also has a shared cooldown with the Spear Shards synergy.

Repentance (Restoring Aura morph): This morph now restores Health and Stamina based on your character level instead of your Max Resource. It also only restores Stamina to the casting Templar, but continues to restore Health to the casting Templar and his allies.

Once again, insulting our intelligence by claiming that "several" synergies & group buffs were "near-mandatory" in end-game situations and have been adjusted. Yet you didn't adjust "several" synergies and group buffs...you only adjusted Templar group buffs & synergies, removing Repentance altogether as a group buff, and bastardizing the Spear by putting it on same cooldown as the Orb. Why not just change the original statement to something along these lines:

"Templars bring too much group buff & synergy utility to the table and are desired in end-game situations. Since healing Wardens will fulfill the same role, we've removed any reason to need to bring a Templar with you in those situations. Buy our expansion."

TL;DR: I'm not meta anymore and I'm going to throw a fit over it.

Welcome to Nightblades since forever.

Why are you even here? You're not adding anything substantial to anyone's discussion, nor are you giving any sort of proper rebuttal. If you're fine with the changes, then have fun on the PTS. But continuously misrepresenting people's arguments is bordering trolling.

spiiros

You know that so called "fit" is a valid complaint. A lot of these changes are good, a lot of them are flat out terrible and it makes you wonder if they play their game at any end game level. Resource management is a good change... the way they're implementing the change is another aspect in itself.

ZOS_GinaBruno

Hey guys, we’d like to address a couple outstanding issues that we’ve seen brought up over the past couple days. We understand many of you are upset about the change with Repentance, and we’d like to explain why we made this change. Previously, Templars were able to restore the entire stamina bar for them and their whole group. In this upcoming update, we’re really focusing on resource recovery, so this ability needed to be adjusted. Additionally, running out of resources essentially provides a cooldown into a game that is currently without one, and restoring your group’s stamina through Repentance goes against these goals. Repentance does still heal the whole group for a large amount, and additionally, has no cost to boot. Now that resources are going to be more important, free abilities are quite powerful.

Regarding Necrotic Orb and it now sharing a cooldown with Spear Shards, there are a few key differences between these two abilities we’d like to touch on first. Spear Shards is significantly cheaper and easier to target. Additionally, with the Luminous Shards morph, the Templar can also get this resource restore for himself. This change was ultimately made to make all classes viable healers in concordance with the reduction to resources. If Templars were the only healers that could restore resources after these changes, they would be outrageously superior healers, and we want all classes to be viable in some way. With that being said, despite the changes we’ve made, Templars are still the best class to heal. We just had to make some adjustments so they weren’t far beyond the other classes.

Lastly, the Ultimate ability we called out as having 28 meters is Rite of Passage, and that should’ve been 20 meters. Apologies for the typo and confusion! For what it’s worth, the Warden’s heal is only 8 meters.

Catches_the_Sun

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Repentance does still heal the whole group for a large amount, and additionally, has no cost to boot. Now that resources are going to be more important, free abilities are quite powerful.

Think about what situations you actually used Repentance for it's heal, though. I used it during trash mob fights to keep the train moving, so to speak, giving back resources to my group, not for the heals. In boss fights, where you actually need heals, it's either a single boss (no corpses to use), or the adds don't count as corpses for the Repentance ability in the first place. It still reads to me that from my gameplay style, as a PvE healer, this skill might as well have been removed entirely.

After reading notes on PTS, it also appears that once a corpse has been "Repented" by one Templar, it can not be used by another. Is this intended, or a bug?

ViRUSsamtastic

I got what you you're doing with the recource management changes ZOS, but why do you keep saying that you want every class to be a viable healer? Obviously every player that wants to heal is gonna pick templar or warden and thats normal because you actualy gave them a class skillline specificaly for healing... So to me its pretty normal and logical you give them passives
and abilities to be the superior healer/support classes.

Koolio

So your saying repentance gets minorstamina steal???

Faulgor

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey guys, we’d like to address a couple outstanding issues that we’ve seen brought up over the past couple days. We understand many of you are upset about the change with Repentance, and we’d like to explain why we made this change. Previously, Templars were able to restore the entire stamina bar for them and their whole group. In this upcoming update, we’re really focusing on resource recovery, so this ability needed to be adjusted. Additionally, running out of resources essentially provides a cooldown into a game that is currently without one, and restoring your group’s stamina through Repentance goes against these goals. Repentance does still heal the whole group for a large amount, and additionally, has no cost to boot. Now that resources are going to be more important, free abilities are quite powerful.

Regarding Necrotic Orb and it now sharing a cooldown with Spear Shards, there are a few key differences between these two abilities we’d like to touch on first. Spear Shards is significantly cheaper and easier to target. Additionally, with the Luminous Shards morph, the Templar can also get this resource restore for himself. This change was ultimately made to make all classes viable healers in concordance with the reduction to resources. If Templars were the only healers that could restore resources after these changes, they would be outrageously superior healers, and we want all classes to be viable in some way. With that being said, despite the changes we’ve made, Templars are still the best class to heal. We just had to make some adjustments so they weren’t far beyond the other classes.

Lastly, the Ultimate ability we called out as having 28 meters is Rite of Passage, and that should’ve been 20 meters. Apologies for the typo and confusion! For what it’s worth, the Warden’s heal is only 8 meters.

So, why are Templars allowed to keep their AoE Minor Magickasteal on Radiant Aura? Why doesn't this make them "outrageously superior" healers, but Repentance does? That seems simply like favoring magicka over stamina builds to me, considering there isn't even a Minor Staminasteal debuff in the game.

Gomumon

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

If Templars were the only healers that could restore resources after these changes, they would be outrageously superior healers, and we want all classes to be viable in some way.

Therein lies the problem: trying to make every class okay at everything but excel at nothing. Damage dealing is essential to this game: it's the only way anything can be completed. Until there's content where you can only take out a boss with floor mechanics, or by surviving until time runs out, damage is the only way to move forward.

So for all intents and purposes, we'll consider damage dealing primary.

Healing and tanking are merely roles to keep damage dealers safe and full until everything is dead. Thus, we'll call this secondary role utility.

I feel like a much better way to balance would be to have every class optimized for damage and for ONE type of utility. For example, DKs and NBs as DPS/Tanks with good self resource management; Sorcs and Templars as DPS/Healers with good burst healing (BOL/Twilight).

From here, let the effects of some (or all) skills change depending on what players have their role actively set to. For example, Burning Embers in DPS mode would do 100% of it's damage and a fraction of your own damage dealt as a heal, while in Tank mode it would do a fraction of it's damage but heal and much higher percentage of damage done by the group.

This way players can excel at what role they'd like, without being GREAT at everything in an active combat situation (PVP). You wouldn't see 5H tanks taking a torrent of fire from 3 people AND still being able to burst one with uppercut > leap > reverse slice. This would also give you more control over what moves benefited sustain under what role.

Turelus

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey guys, we’d like to address a couple outstanding issues that we’ve seen brought up over the past couple days. We understand many of you are upset about the change with Repentance, and we’d like to explain why we made this change. Previously, Templars were able to restore the entire stamina bar for them and their whole group. In this upcoming update, we’re really focusing on resource recovery, so this ability needed to be adjusted. Additionally, running out of resources essentially provides a cooldown into a game that is currently without one, and restoring your group’s stamina through Repentance goes against these goals. Repentance does still heal the whole group for a large amount, and additionally, has no cost to boot. Now that resources are going to be more important, free abilities are quite powerful.

Regarding Necrotic Orb and it now sharing a cooldown with Spear Shards, there are a few key differences between these two abilities we’d like to touch on first. Spear Shards is significantly cheaper and easier to target. Additionally, with the Luminous Shards morph, the Templar can also get this resource restore for himself. This change was ultimately made to make all classes viable healers in concordance with the reduction to resources. If Templars were the only healers that could restore resources after these changes, they would be outrageously superior healers, and we want all classes to be viable in some way. With that being said, despite the changes we’ve made, Templars are still the best class to heal. We just had to make some adjustments so they weren’t far beyond the other classes.

Lastly, the Ultimate ability we called out as having 28 meters is Rite of Passage, and that should’ve been 20 meters. Apologies for the typo and confusion! For what it’s worth, the Warden’s heal is only 8 meters.

Thanks Gina, these updates are great to read. I really hope people start listening and calming down soon.

runa_gate

I don't know that the issue is that other healers will be closer to templars (whatever isn't best basically won't be used, anyway) but that therefor all healing, all group content and all trials will thus be harder. Which, given how many people can even beat vMoL atm with the current, vastly superior healers, bodes ill for the game.

Making bad groups much, much worse doesn't really seem to have an upside, either.

The_Lex

Faulgor wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey guys, we’d like to address a couple outstanding issues that we’ve seen brought up over the past couple days. We understand many of you are upset about the change with Repentance, and we’d like to explain why we made this change. Previously, Templars were able to restore the entire stamina bar for them and their whole group. In this upcoming update, we’re really focusing on resource recovery, so this ability needed to be adjusted. Additionally, running out of resources essentially provides a cooldown into a game that is currently without one, and restoring your group’s stamina through Repentance goes against these goals. Repentance does still heal the whole group for a large amount, and additionally, has no cost to boot. Now that resources are going to be more important, free abilities are quite powerful.

Regarding Necrotic Orb and it now sharing a cooldown with Spear Shards, there are a few key differences between these two abilities we’d like to touch on first. Spear Shards is significantly cheaper and easier to target. Additionally, with the Luminous Shards morph, the Templar can also get this resource restore for himself. This change was ultimately made to make all classes viable healers in concordance with the reduction to resources. If Templars were the only healers that could restore resources after these changes, they would be outrageously superior healers, and we want all classes to be viable in some way. With that being said, despite the changes we’ve made, Templars are still the best class to heal. We just had to make some adjustments so they weren’t far beyond the other classes.

Lastly, the Ultimate ability we called out as having 28 meters is Rite of Passage, and that should’ve been 20 meters. Apologies for the typo and confusion! For what it’s worth, the Warden’s heal is only 8 meters.

So, why are Templars allowed to keep their AoE Minor Magickasteal on Radiant Aura? Why doesn't this make them "outrageously superior" healers, but Repentance does? That seems simply like favoring magicka over stamina builds to me, considering there isn't even a Minor Staminasteal debuff in the game.

This is a valid point.

Gomumon

runa_gate wrote: »

I don't know that the issue is that other healers will be closer to templars (whatever isn't best basically won't be used, anyway) but that therefor all healing, all group content and all trials will thus be harder. Which, given how many people can even beat vMoL atm with the current, vastly superior healers, bodes ill for the game.

Making bad groups much, much worse doesn't really seem to have an upside, either.

Right? I already know a lot of people who aren't max yet (and a few who are) who already don't want to try tanking or healing cause of the hate they'll get if they let everyone die. These changes are going to give tanks and healers more "L2P" hate mail.

UppGRAYxDD

The_Lex

Given the Repentance loss, I'd love for Templars to be given the ability to throw out more than one shard at a time to support the tank and stamina DDs a lot more. Could be a max of 2 for all I care; it would, at least, be something.

Kneighbors

I've said the same. With all the changes templar is still the most viable healer. Besides maybe Warden which is still not clear.

Calandrae

So the goal is to make every class viable to heal. Please give us templars new, useful abilities in return for those you are making redundant then?

Dagoth_Rac

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Additionally, running out of resources essentially provides a cooldown into a game that is currently without one

But that is not really how cooldowns work in other games. In other games Skill A might be on cooldown, so you fall back on Skill B or Skill C or Skill D or Skill E or Skill F, etc. In a skill cooldown game, there is generally a large variety of skills available to be cast at any time, just not *any* skill you want because some are on cooldown. But in ESO, running out of resources does not mean you cannot cast a particular skill. It means you cannot cast anything. In other games, if a particular skill is on cooldown, you use one of a dozen other active skills. In ESO, if you run out of resources and are on "cooldown", all your choices are removed. All you can do is heavy attack. Which takes the MMO with the most exciting combat on the market and turns into the MMO with the dullest combat on the market.

kyle.wilson

Turelus wrote: »

Thanks Gina, these updates are great to read. I really hope people start listening and calming down soon.

It's going to be just like homestead, most of the ultimatums faded after people realized it wasn't the apocalypse.