PTS Patch Notes v3.0.0

EldritchPenguin

Phinix1 wrote: »

jediprime74 wrote: »

I haven't played this game for nearly two years to be forced to focus almost exclusively on resource management, nor do I like the Care Bear approach of decreasing the gap between newer players and established endgame players.

Such a perfect opportunity with the first major "chapter" addition to separate PVP and PVE balancing, a change so desperately called for over the last 3 years, and instead you opt for a blanket nerf to all resources?

Then you drop the resource CP passives completely ON TOP of this AND reduce the remaining most desirable CP perks from 25% max bonus to 15%? Doesn't this sort of scream "thanks for the support long term players, but all that progress you worked for was for nothing because we can't be bothered to add a separate effect for skills and passives in PVP."

I'm sorry but that is really disappointing guys.

I'm sure i"ll get nothing but quantum hate vibrations for saying this, but why is it so hard for you to balance PVP and PVE separately? It seems it would make things SO much simpler and avoid demoralizing your players by constantly sweeping the progress rug out from under them.

I am saying this on behalf of those that have a long term investment in your product. You don't build long term relationships by constantly undermining trust.

I think these changes are pretty explicitly intended to nerf PvE players at least as hard as PvP players. In fact, the changes are crap for PvP as well. Everyone's sustain abilities are getting massive nerfs, except for Dark Deal, and Dark Deal was already one of the best sustain abilities in the game. Weak classes aren't getting buffs, and Stamina Sorcerers, who are already extremely popular, are going to be almost completely dominant.

So please don't blame PvP for these changes, because these changes suck for both sides.

t3hdubzy

I like how zos has killed the game every update, yet were all still here

alexkdd99

Not saying your patch will kill the game as that is unlikely, especially since you were wise enough to couple all those nerfs with Morrowind. (Basically the most wanted expansion yet)

But you know what does kill games? Big sweeping changes that the majority object to. 1 very good example of this is SWG.

Hitting things with the nerf hammer so hard all at once is ridiculous.

Hopefully some of the crazier nerfs will get taken back a little. I'm looking at you repentance.

Forsakiin

Somebody reassure me and tell me previous big changes on PTS have been reverted on live. Anybody? PLEASE!

oterWitz

Goodbye Stamina my old friend...

Anyone want to make me a max level destro staff and farm BSW?

masterbroodub17_ESO

oterWitz wrote: »

Goodbye Stamina my old friend...

Anyone want to make me a max level destro staff and farm BSW?

This is the real problem, honestly.

MyKillv2.0

I am beyond happy with the nerfs to Templars. They still have plenty of awesome tools in their kit but now it is not a requirement to be a Templar Healer at end game! Templars and Warden healers will still be best, don't get me wrong but at least Sorc/Dk/NB will be comparable.

We will have to see how the reduction nerf effects the game. Good players will learn to deal with it. Quitters will rage quit but yet come back in time to quit again for the next patch.

If they reverse one thing, I hope they reverse the Siphon nerf to NBs. It is an important part of their kit and gives the class an identity in all three phases of the game.

Phinix1

I hoped they would have added some long awaited features in the first big chapter update:

• Jewelry crafting and improvement.
• Gear re-styling (even for Crowns what the heck?)
• Weapon dying (like, seriously?)
• Token system for dungeon gear.
• Spellmaking?

I guess I am just sort of lost with the direction this is taking...

I am trying to understand the WHY of it all. I see the affect, on the game and player's perceptions, and it isn't a very positive one. So, WHAT IS GAINED BY THIS to offset all that downside?

Are they trying to improve hybrid builds, with the "scales off level, nerf if resource pool above X buff if below Y" mechanics? Because you don't need complex math to tell you nerfing resources isn't the way to do that. Hybrids starve for resources more than single-resources classes by a landslide.

I honestly can't think of anything.

Of course I will play and enjoy the game for what it does offer. It's Morrowind! Exploring will be AWESOME. Questing there will be AWESOME. Experimenting with a new class will be AWESOME.

But in terms of game mechanics this patch is looking to be all downside with no upside to me.

All for what? All I keep coming back to is that it is just too much to set up a separate balance template for PVE and PVP so that when some Rockstar Streamer tells everyone what build meta to chase in one or the other, they can make tweaks to that side without dropping a load of bricks on the other.

I heard some people on the forums complaining about infinite sustain builds in PVP. Is that really a reason to wreck Templar healers, destroy sustain needed for higher end content, and sweep the last year and a half of CP progress out from under everyone?

It literally makes no sense. JUST BALANCE PVE AND PVP SEPARATELY!

templesus

KramUzibra wrote: »

iFord wrote: »

so you nerfed stamina templar sustain even though they have the worst sustain in the game....

i think you mean stamdk bud

You really think stam dk has worst stam sustain in the game? Like seriously? You're kidding right? There is a reason you see all these stam dk builds with 600 recovery and stamplars with 2000, because one can sustain off having no sustain and the other cant.

lonewolf26

Wow only 20 minutes in and I already feel like I want to uninstall and go play another game. Well Played ZoS. Resource regen nerfs hit pretty hard, even for stamblade.

Godspeed

Where is the note for two handed weapons counting as two for sets?

rsantijw13

Sad to see the direction of the game yet again. Not sure the numbers of people completing the endgame content on vet let alone vet hardmode. Pretty sure its still very low percentage but hey the game needs so be made harder to do those things even more. Me i remember when doshia fight for the fighters guild quest was a challenge. Why not bring a little challenge back to the regular game stuff instead. I sneeze and she dies. The time and effort put into making the characters I have now is completely useless now. Gear now has to be redone/farmed/bought. I just recently got done doing this. I know i am not hardcore player but i do like to be a viable player to my guilds when i am online. Now you put me further behind yet again. This gets old fast. Constantly changing passives and how we unlock the skills now takes what i have been doing for 3+ years and throws it out the window. Keep doing massive changes to the game that i see most dont like or approve of and you will lose yet another long term player. Was looking forward to going back to Morrowind but i guess i will have to just go back the old fashioned way, through the game i own. You want gameplay to be good and for the most part it has been. To keep changing the way you have to do things take the fun out of the game if what i have been doing for years now is pointless. Make base game and quests a challenge again not make complete changes to things that were not broke.

DirtySmeegs33

luen79rwb17_ESO wrote: »

I'll have to login to PTS and test, but seems to me that Templars have been almost completely stripped off the Major Mending buff?

I understand the philosophy of making this buff more rare and tactical but Templars out of the 5 classes, should be the ones to have an easier access and higher uptime, I mean, it's the healing class by design.

But they don't want a "healing class" they r working to get their game to have more choices. It is clear that magplars were too far ahead on the healing curve.

mirog

welp...rip stamdk

rsantijw13

skwherl wrote: »

I think zos should remove gear, skills and cp from the game and just give everyone a stick as a weapon

we do have broom and bucket

Ffastyl

I am pleasantly surprised to see you returning (or attempting to return) the resource management to the resource driven combat. The one concern with combat besides resource management is time to kill (TTK). It has been low in general for a long time and it seems like you intend to keep it low, given the phrasing "fast paced" combat and the increased tick rate to block costs.

What I would like to see is some return to flow of 1.5, where resource management and active defenses were critical. Back then people died fast but active defenses (blocking, damage shields, healing [though to a lesser extent than today], rolling [also lesser extent to today]) were so strong that fights would last minutes as each side attempted to bypass their opponent's defense. Dark Souls PvP plays the same way when simplified: players die in 3 hits, but potent active defenses in blocking, rolling and parrying enables fights to drag on and places emphasis on bypassing those tools with well timed or persistent strikes.

Well, the return of resource management may increase TTK. The initial burst kill is still present, but the fear of not lasting the long haul should push players towards less damage. The decrease to healing may also fix the very issue you cite: health bars popping back to full from almost dead. This may make lower damage more viable. Be aware the extremes are still there, but hopefully this raises the TTK a fair amount in most cases. Watch the Siphoner CP, however, as it may force players entirely to cost reduction as they can no longer rely upon regenerating resources.

skwherl

Also curious about gap closer animation fixes, are they coming next patch or...never?

CromulentForumID

Phinix1 wrote: »

CromulentForumID wrote: »

I agree it is needed. However, how can they do it? Abilities do not have separate definitions for PVP and PVE as far as I know, and there has to be some kind of practical limit to what they can do with Battle Spirit.

There are a few examples of abilities that have an extra tooltip line stating it works different when used against a player.

It would be really simple to do. Just stop yourself every time you feel the twitch response to make massive unwarranted changes that completely undermine the game dynamics in response to forum QQ and PVP meta and implement it as a tooltip change for PVP-specific effects instead.

I agree with your sentiment, but I think you're drastically underestimating how hard it would be to actually implement it. Should they wait and get the best balance possible? Sure. Can they technically do it? Dunno. Certainly not easily.

In your example, you talk about differences when attacking a player. That makes sense. Target = player. What about self-buffs? Buffs to other players that rely on proximity? There is a lot to account for when you try to separate everything.

Should they have put this into the game design? Oh yeah. Years of MMO history should have told them it was the only good choice. It would have been more expensive in the short run, but I think over time it would have paid for itself.

You start to get into trouble when you assume things are easy, because then the only reason something is not there is laziness.

HatchetHaro

These patch notes just show how much ZOS wants us to choke on Templar orbs and shards.

Completely stupid and unnecessary changes. Too much focus on nerfing, you didn't even consider the end-game audience who actually give a crap about performing to the best of their abilities.

Kram8ion

Two steps forward and two steps back?
Please insert Jlo clip here'

Banana

Oh dear

Rataroto

How about make Bone Shield scale with maximum stamina instead of health?

and make debilitate (cripple morph) stamina version? no one uses that morph

mtwiggz

Haven't had a chance to hop on the PTS yet, but these patch notes look very grim.

All I imagine Cyrodiil to be from here on out is large zergs light and heavy attacking each other for hours because none of them have any resources left to actually fight, heal or run...

ColoredScreams

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Templar

[*]Sacred Ground: This passive ability now grants Minor Mending instead of Major Mending when you are standing in your Cleansing Ritual, Rune Focus, or Rite of Passage areas of effect.
Developer Comments:

With a similar goal to reducing uptime on Major Mending as noted with the Igneous Shield change, Templars having 100% uptime on Major Mending by just standing within their areas of protection is stronger than we’d like and is one of the reasons they are the most desirable healer in endgame situations. We’ve changed the bonus to Minor Mending instead, but have increased the bonus from the Mending passive to compensate slightly.

You "increased the bonus from the Mending passive to compensate" for the nerf to Templars Major mending, but the Mending passive ONLY effects Magicka Templars. Where is the compensation for Stamina Templars, which undoubtedly have the worst sustain out of all of the stamina classes? Instead they get a nerf to their repentance, healing, and the cost of their stamina skills, without the same compensation as Magicka Templar. Unbelievable.

@ZOS_GinaBruno

BalticBlues

RIP Templars
Class change token for Warden Class please.

SydneyGrey

Well, the Champion Point changes to Tumbling (the shadow) and Magician (the tower) are going to ruin my character. I'll have to completely re-spect my champion points at a huge cost. Not very happy right now.

Oh, and heavy armor is also messed up. Great.

FlyLionel

So nerfs and nightblades get nothing. Awesome, stamina has caltrops for pve now...everyone has that. Okay....wow just gotta let this one go live and feel it out. Hold on fellas.

Methariorn

Put a dam Token system for dungeon: this game is like some korean mmorpg sh*t farming mode to complete some build and few players can invest that time. Second bring crafting back in action: put jewelcraft, give crafters the option to change the trait of a dropped item and/or the motif even at very high price.

Ashtaris

It seems like every recent update, I have to keep working harder and harder just to keep up with the changes and nerfs. I spend more gold and mats for new gear, train to try new skills and rotations, and then get my ass kicked my ZOS again. It's starting to get to the point where I'm getting the feeling the game is not fun anymore and playing is just getting to be too much work. After reading the patch notes, I wonder how much longer I will be able to hold on.

SydneyGrey

Kram8ion wrote: »

Two steps forward and two steps back?
Please insert Jlo clip here'

I think you mean Paula Abdul, unless J.Lo did a song about it, too.