[VIDEO] STAMBLADE IS DEAD

No_True_Scotsman

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Where is this incap < dbos nonsense coming from?

L2incap

He's not timing it. Just trying to fire and forget like DBoS. Therefore, he thinks it sucks.

zuto40

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Where is this incap < dbos nonsense coming from?

L2incap

Incap- multiple chances to be dodged, can be blocked, can be purged off, hits harder initially, 70 ult

dbos- cant be dodged, can be blocked, can be purged, with dot hits much harder, 125 ult, aoe

not a contest here, dbos>incap anyday

Subversus

@NightbladeMechanics lmfao exactly

@zuto40 old cloak would effectively be a buff to ganking, I wouldn't mind.

I won't get into the whole incap debate, really don't have the willpower for it lol.

NightbladeMechanics

zuto40 wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Where is this incap < dbos nonsense coming from?

L2incap

Incap- multiple chances to be dodged, can be blocked, can be purged off, hits harder initially, 70 ult

dbos- cant be dodged, can be blocked, can be purged, with dot hits much harder, 125 ult, aoe

not a contest here, dbos>incap anyday

All I hear is "dbos less burst no debuffs almost double the cost."

Incap allows for a faster paced play style with its lower cost and is more lethal against your primary target, but requires more precision and better timing. Dbos is more reliable and can stun multiple people, but it's less lethal to your primary target. Comes down to play style preference imo.

thankyourat

zuto40 wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Where is this incap < dbos nonsense coming from?

L2incap

Incap- multiple chances to be dodged, can be blocked, can be purged off, hits harder initially, 70 ult

dbos- cant be dodged, can be blocked, can be purged, with dot hits much harder, 125 ult, aoe

not a contest here, dbos>incap anyday

I just got hit for a 13k incap. I think incap is better against magicka players who aren't going to be dodging or players you need to kill really quickly, and dbos is better if you are out numbered or fighting someone who dodges too much

NightbladeMechanics

thankyourat wrote: »

zuto40 wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Where is this incap < dbos nonsense coming from?

L2incap

Incap- multiple chances to be dodged, can be blocked, can be purged off, hits harder initially, 70 ult

dbos- cant be dodged, can be blocked, can be purged, with dot hits much harder, 125 ult, aoe

not a contest here, dbos>incap anyday

I just got hit for a 13k incap. I think incap is better against magicka players who aren't going to be dodging or players you need to kill really quickly, and dbos is better if you are out numbered or fighting someone who dodges too much

just time the hit between dodge rolls, or as they go offensive or something. There are always openings.

Lexxypwns

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Where is this incap < dbos nonsense coming from?

L2incap

in a duel I think incap wins out, but when you're getting pressured by 4 people in a 1vX and can DBoS, CC them all and deliver big burst damage, with 1 button push, its really not close kena.

Edit: I see you mention it comes down to playstyle and I agree, but there's no question that DBoS is useful in a bigger number of situations than incap. As soon as you have two targets to hit DBoS becomes more efficient and that scales exponentially.

Chair

zuto40 wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Where is this incap < dbos nonsense coming from?

L2incap

Incap- multiple chances to be dodged, can be blocked, can be purged off, hits harder initially, 70 ult

dbos- cant be dodged, can be blocked, can be purged, with dot hits much harder, 125 ult, aoe

not a contest here, dbos>incap anyday

No offence id very much like to see a DBOS stamblade kill me 1v1.

NightbladeMechanics

Lexxypwns wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Where is this incap < dbos nonsense coming from?

L2incap

in a duel I think incap wins out, but when you're getting pressured by 4 people in a 1vX and can DBoS, CC them all and deliver big burst damage, with 1 button push, its really not close kena.

Edit: I see you mention it comes down to playstyle and I agree, but there's no question that DBoS is useful in a bigger number of situations than incap. As soon as you have two targets to hit DBoS becomes more efficient and that scales exponentially.

Actually scales linearly.

I back bar Dawnbreaker sometimes for this very purpose, but
1) hitting multiple people with a DB is not always necessary in a 1vX fight, and when it's not, Incap is almost always better
2) the killing power of Incap is greater on single targets
3) stamblade (the way I play it) is about jumping in, unloading on a single target to try to murder them, then dipping out with shade and continuing to kite. People don't often clump up where DB could hit a lot because I'm usually running around everywhere keeping them strung out.

I like to keep Incap on the main bar because I find that extra single target murdering power more valuable. I do dump a quick DB-bar swap from my bow bar when the cc is useful, though, but that isn't too frequent. I'm not a fan of bow ult's high cost, find barrier useless even with the regen passive, and am too lazy to level werewolf, so it's usually either Incap or DB back there.

Izaki

See if you did that on a stam DK or Sorc, it would've been way easier and faster. If you see my point...

zuto40

Chair wrote: »

zuto40 wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Where is this incap < dbos nonsense coming from?

L2incap

Incap- multiple chances to be dodged, can be blocked, can be purged off, hits harder initially, 70 ult

dbos- cant be dodged, can be blocked, can be purged, with dot hits much harder, 125 ult, aoe

not a contest here, dbos>incap anyday

No offence id very much like to see a DBOS stamblade kill me 1v1.

I don't suppose your Xbox na are you?

WuffyCerulei

So much sin in one video.

MrBM

Troll King OP lol Idk if you are wearing it but it seems like it

NightbladeMechanics

Ok I just got around to watching the video... Now I know why you don't like Incap. Controller camera speed isn't fast or precise enough to land it on a mobile, rolling target.

Your enemies aren't the best...but I guess it's what you have to work with. I did notice that you cast Siphoning Attacks 5 times throughout the video -- 3 at the starts of fights and twice during them -- running yourself out of resources multiple times.

5 casts * 15s uptime = 75s total uptime
5:34 video is 334s long
75/334 = 22% uptime on your main sustain buff

That buff uptime might be a good next thing to work on. Oh, and I liked your transitions.

zuto40

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Ok I just got around to watching the video... Now I know why you don't like Incap. Controller camera speed isn't fast or precise enough to land it on a mobile, rolling target.

Your enemies aren't the best...but I guess it's what you have to work with. I did notice that you cast Siphoning Attacks 5 times throughout the video -- 3 at the starts of fights and twice during them -- running yourself out of resources multiple times.

5 casts * 15s uptime = 75s total uptime
5:34 video is 334s long
75/334 = 22% uptime on your main sustain buff

That buff uptime might be a good next thing to work on. Oh, and I liked your transitions.

Watch my skill bar, I hit it multiple times but sometimes it just doesn't activate on console, idk if it's cause my controllers broken or something else, and thanks but I didn't choose the transitions

NightbladeMechanics

zuto40 wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Ok I just got around to watching the video... Now I know why you don't like Incap. Controller camera speed isn't fast or precise enough to land it on a mobile, rolling target.

Your enemies aren't the best...but I guess it's what you have to work with. I did notice that you cast Siphoning Attacks 5 times throughout the video -- 3 at the starts of fights and twice during them -- running yourself out of resources multiple times.

5 casts * 15s uptime = 75s total uptime
5:34 video is 334s long
75/334 = 22% uptime on your main sustain buff

That buff uptime might be a good next thing to work on. Oh, and I liked your transitions.

Watch my skill bar, I hit it multiple times but sometimes it just doesn't activate on console, idk if it's cause my controllers broken or something else, and thanks but I didn't choose the transitions

I watched the bar for the ability icon to indent.

zuto40

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

zuto40 wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Ok I just got around to watching the video... Now I know why you don't like Incap. Controller camera speed isn't fast or precise enough to land it on a mobile, rolling target.

Your enemies aren't the best...but I guess it's what you have to work with. I did notice that you cast Siphoning Attacks 5 times throughout the video -- 3 at the starts of fights and twice during them -- running yourself out of resources multiple times.

5 casts * 15s uptime = 75s total uptime
5:34 video is 334s long
75/334 = 22% uptime on your main sustain buff

That buff uptime might be a good next thing to work on. Oh, and I liked your transitions.

Watch my skill bar, I hit it multiple times but sometimes it just doesn't activate on console, idk if it's cause my controllers broken or something else, and thanks but I didn't choose the transitions

I watched the bar for the ability icon to indent.

then you missed some because i counted 7 times i hit the button, and dont forget in most of the clips i had it up before it started, so right now i'm at a minimum of 105 seconds of up time for it out of 334s, im not gonna bother to count each second in the clips i had it up already when it started so its not nearly as bad as you made it out to be

NightbladeMechanics

zuto40 wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

zuto40 wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Ok I just got around to watching the video... Now I know why you don't like Incap. Controller camera speed isn't fast or precise enough to land it on a mobile, rolling target.

Your enemies aren't the best...but I guess it's what you have to work with. I did notice that you cast Siphoning Attacks 5 times throughout the video -- 3 at the starts of fights and twice during them -- running yourself out of resources multiple times.

5 casts * 15s uptime = 75s total uptime
5:34 video is 334s long
75/334 = 22% uptime on your main sustain buff

That buff uptime might be a good next thing to work on. Oh, and I liked your transitions.

Watch my skill bar, I hit it multiple times but sometimes it just doesn't activate on console, idk if it's cause my controllers broken or something else, and thanks but I didn't choose the transitions

I watched the bar for the ability icon to indent.

then you missed some because i counted 7 times i hit the button, and dont forget in most of the clips i had it up before it started, so right now i'm at a minimum of 105 seconds of up time for it out of 334s, im not gonna bother to count each second in the clips i had it up already when it started so its not nearly as bad as you made it out to be

I counted what stuck out to me while I was watching the fights. Regardless, that's still under 1/3 uptime, and you're still drained for stamina against pretty weak opponents. Just be more conscious of that Siphoning Attacks uptime going forward, and you'll notice a marked increase in your sustain. You really want Siphoning up 100% of the time, even if your resources don't feel particularly pressured.

Chair

zuto40 wrote: »

Chair wrote: »

zuto40 wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Where is this incap < dbos nonsense coming from?

L2incap

Incap- multiple chances to be dodged, can be blocked, can be purged off, hits harder initially, 70 ult

dbos- cant be dodged, can be blocked, can be purged, with dot hits much harder, 125 ult, aoe

not a contest here, dbos>incap anyday

No offence id very much like to see a DBOS stamblade kill me 1v1.

I don't suppose your Xbox na are you?

Nah sadly not im not a peasant (Dont hurt me )

Lucky28

zuto40 wrote: »

LeifErickson wrote: »

I can't tell if this is supposed to be sarcastic or not, but I think stamblades are probably one of the best solo classes in the game, maybe only behind magicka sorc, because of their ability to not have to win a fight to escape. Not to mention they have great burst and most builds tend to have defenses that scale well outnumbered. When I play my stamblade, I tend to have to try much harder than all of my other classes, but I can also accomplish more, things other classes could never do.

It is sarcastic to a point, I'm tired of seeing threads and comments calling stamblade bad and in need of help so this weekend I recorded some fights to show these bad players it is possible to kick ass on a stamblade, and I agree we are one of the best solo classes since we don't need to win to live and that definitely helped me while recording these fights but we do have to try harder to do more then other classes, the very first fight you see another stamblade fail a gank on me while I'm wearing medium armor, and the last fight you see 2 stamblades get wiped because of their bad play within 5 seconds, I've personally never encountered a stamblade as good as me in open world and I think our very high skill cap has something to do with this and is a problem, we can say L2P all we want but if 99% of stamblades are trash there's a problem

aren't the complaints about stamblades mostly in regards to PvE tho?.

zuto40

Lucky28 wrote: »

zuto40 wrote: »

LeifErickson wrote: »

I can't tell if this is supposed to be sarcastic or not, but I think stamblades are probably one of the best solo classes in the game, maybe only behind magicka sorc, because of their ability to not have to win a fight to escape. Not to mention they have great burst and most builds tend to have defenses that scale well outnumbered. When I play my stamblade, I tend to have to try much harder than all of my other classes, but I can also accomplish more, things other classes could never do.

It is sarcastic to a point, I'm tired of seeing threads and comments calling stamblade bad and in need of help so this weekend I recorded some fights to show these bad players it is possible to kick ass on a stamblade, and I agree we are one of the best solo classes since we don't need to win to live and that definitely helped me while recording these fights but we do have to try harder to do more then other classes, the very first fight you see another stamblade fail a gank on me while I'm wearing medium armor, and the last fight you see 2 stamblades get wiped because of their bad play within 5 seconds, I've personally never encountered a stamblade as good as me in open world and I think our very high skill cap has something to do with this and is a problem, we can say L2P all we want but if 99% of stamblades are trash there's a problem

aren't the complaints about stamblades mostly in regards to PvE tho?.

No, there have been a couple threads in the PvP sections

Hankrabbit

IMO Stamblades are perfect for small scale PvP. So they will shine in the Battlegrounds.

I think the reason why people are complaining is because Stamblades gives no advantages for group play or zerging.
Im doing just fine with my nb, doing 1vsX or small scale.

rfennell_ESO

Eh the main problem with stamblades is that no matter your level of skill, you would be better on any other stam class.

The only thing you get over them is the ability to escape from fights and it can be argued that a stam sorc is better at it.

A big part of it is the 4 seconds of major resolve/ward. That's versus 15s, 20s, 15s major resolve/ward on the other classes.

Couple that with the fact that most nightblade will run a bow with sharpened instead of defending (because of the need of damage bow abilities as the class lacks ranged options as stamina). Well that's a whole lot of armor/spell resist (~11k) that you find yourself without. Even with heavy armor that increases the class buff, it's not going to be 100% uptime.

You can argue that you *can* build to have those things... and sure, you can. But you are not on equal footing with the other classes that can achieve it and give up less to do it. If you end up building as the other classes do, you just aren't as effective and it doesn't seem to synergize as well.

Lastly, another issue is that in large fights... stealth attacks become irrelevant, dark cloak becomes irrelevant and the entire point of a stamina build in the mix is better served by the other classes.

Addendum: I guess I'll add one little point to it all. The change to "charges" to make them function like ambush actually makes them function better than ambush. Ambush fails so often on fast moving targets and los that's it's largely terrible, it certainly does not function like a charge does currently. They "in theory" have identical ranges, but "in practice" they don't. They also do not operate nearly the same way and there are little nuances to their operation that makes charges much better (ie the loading up of a heavy attack right before charges, which you just can't do with ambush). Sure... Ambush has an empower attached to it... but it's so buggy it becomes irrelevant. Another little thing, related to the first part of this paragraph is that when Crit charge "misses" it still seems to bring you to the target. When Ambush fails, it just drains your resource and you don't end up near your target.

No_True_Scotsman

All this talk of stamblade's not being really strong makes me wonder if we're even playing the same class. High damage, high sustain, good ability to escape ... maybe a little weak on the healing, but there should be a trade off somewhere. Besides, if you're trying to stick it out and brawl you're probably on the wrong class anyways.

clocksstoppe

I don't think stamblade is bad, but at the same time I'm not at all impressed by this video. You played against horrible players, I can tell by 3 critical things:

• They are in the sewers and not at the surface
• Literally NONE of them ever used any sort of detection like magelight.
• They don't have much stone on them.

Just like all the 1vX videos out there, one good guy outplaying a bunch of bad zerglings.

tonemd

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Dyride wrote: »

Eh, maybe it is because players are more willing to share their insight with other classes than they are with a successful Stamblade build...

This could be a community knowledge problem in part.

Playing defensively is an important skill and it pays off to shore up class weaknesses in a successful builds and not just build towards the class strengths.

I usually see two things happen, overreliance on cloak in situations it won't perform well and overreliance on dodgeroll which can quickly lead to OOS.

Despite what people think, Stamblades can have strong heals however.

Nightblades already have the widest access to Major/Minor buffs. I don't disagree there can't be tweaks though.

I'm not going to comment on small-scale and solo Magblade because that is out of my experience to comment, but I do see Magblade bomber builds that exceed the capability of other classes.

Outside of that bomber role, it seems trickier to define success though.

I think over-reliance on overwhelming damage is what kills most stamblades. Rather than just playing all defense until its time to unload the burst and get a kill.

People think "wow, I've got all this damage in my kit" and want to rely too much on cloak or dodge as you mentioned. Neither of those things is adequate as a primary defense. This results in most stamblade players either being terrible, building for ganking, or playing a different class.

As for healing, you're correct, people drastically underestimate how strong forcing a crit on that rally burst heal or first vigor tick can be.

People actually think "I'll add all this damage to my kit so I can kill quickly otherwise I'm toast." I do agree that successful stamblade knowledge needs to be shared with the rest of us 80%rs. Tired of ganking.

Also tired of having to rely on Two-Hand but hey what can you do.

ostrapz

Cloak was nerfed to stop purging dots and then to stop allowing people in cloak to vigor, 1 of these was should come back,both make cloak alot weaker considering you must stay cloaked to escape dots but 7/10 dots actually break cloak. Large group stamblade is useless. My main issue with stamblade is in 1.6 we were good, maybe too good, but the point is we were squishy but had high damage, there was a balance too it. With various changes to the class and game crit for example isn't as efficient and overall stamblade damage is a slight bit lower than it used to be. This wouldn't be a problem if so many other classes didn't have the same burst we have now without needing to sacrifice the survivability. Yeah you can still get a heavy attk/incap/execute weave and burst some1 down but you can get that same burst with more survivability doing a heavy attk/crit rush/dawnbreaker/execute on stam sorc. I'd just like a bit more survivability now that other classes have received comparable burst.

On a side note can some1 at zos fix incap, why is it that in capping some1 with shuffle gives a dodge chance to not only your damage but the debuffs and the cc

NightbladeMechanics

tonemd wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Dyride wrote: »

Eh, maybe it is because players are more willing to share their insight with other classes than they are with a successful Stamblade build...

This could be a community knowledge problem in part.

Playing defensively is an important skill and it pays off to shore up class weaknesses in a successful builds and not just build towards the class strengths.

I usually see two things happen, overreliance on cloak in situations it won't perform well and overreliance on dodgeroll which can quickly lead to OOS.

Despite what people think, Stamblades can have strong heals however.

Nightblades already have the widest access to Major/Minor buffs. I don't disagree there can't be tweaks though.

I'm not going to comment on small-scale and solo Magblade because that is out of my experience to comment, but I do see Magblade bomber builds that exceed the capability of other classes.

Outside of that bomber role, it seems trickier to define success though.

I think over-reliance on overwhelming damage is what kills most stamblades. Rather than just playing all defense until its time to unload the burst and get a kill.

People think "wow, I've got all this damage in my kit" and want to rely too much on cloak or dodge as you mentioned. Neither of those things is adequate as a primary defense. This results in most stamblade players either being terrible, building for ganking, or playing a different class.

As for healing, you're correct, people drastically underestimate how strong forcing a crit on that rally burst heal or first vigor tick can be.

People actually think "I'll add all this damage to my kit so I can kill quickly otherwise I'm toast." I do agree that successful stamblade knowledge needs to be shared with the rest of us 80%rs. Tired of ganking.

Also tired of having to rely on Two-Hand but hey what can you do.

@LeifErickson made a really good build video here to share what he runs, and there are tons of gameplay videos on his channel. Learn from those if anywhere.

manny254

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

tonemd wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Dyride wrote: »

Eh, maybe it is because players are more willing to share their insight with other classes than they are with a successful Stamblade build...

This could be a community knowledge problem in part.

Playing defensively is an important skill and it pays off to shore up class weaknesses in a successful builds and not just build towards the class strengths.

I usually see two things happen, overreliance on cloak in situations it won't perform well and overreliance on dodgeroll which can quickly lead to OOS.

Despite what people think, Stamblades can have strong heals however.

Nightblades already have the widest access to Major/Minor buffs. I don't disagree there can't be tweaks though.

I'm not going to comment on small-scale and solo Magblade because that is out of my experience to comment, but I do see Magblade bomber builds that exceed the capability of other classes.

Outside of that bomber role, it seems trickier to define success though.

I think over-reliance on overwhelming damage is what kills most stamblades. Rather than just playing all defense until its time to unload the burst and get a kill.

People think "wow, I've got all this damage in my kit" and want to rely too much on cloak or dodge as you mentioned. Neither of those things is adequate as a primary defense. This results in most stamblade players either being terrible, building for ganking, or playing a different class.

As for healing, you're correct, people drastically underestimate how strong forcing a crit on that rally burst heal or first vigor tick can be.

People actually think "I'll add all this damage to my kit so I can kill quickly otherwise I'm toast." I do agree that successful stamblade knowledge needs to be shared with the rest of us 80%rs. Tired of ganking.

Also tired of having to rely on Two-Hand but hey what can you do.

@LeifErickson made a really good build video here to share what he runs, and there are tons of gameplay videos on his channel. Learn from those if anywhere.

Eh if you are going to wear Medium armor you should almost always run shadow stone in CP campaign, and especially on NB where you can guarantee crits with cloak.

This is more what a nb's stats should look like in this patch. Buffed with rally and relentless. You can take away 2% crit from owning some enemy keeps, but in combat you can add about 186 magicka and stam regen from wearing two heavy.

clocksstoppe

ostrapz wrote: »

Cloak was nerfed to stop purging dots and then to stop allowing people in cloak to vigor, 1 of these was should come back,both make cloak alot weaker considering you must stay cloaked to escape dots but 7/10 dots actually break cloak. Large group stamblade is useless. My main issue with stamblade is in 1.6 we were good, maybe too good, but the point is we were squishy but had high damage, there was a balance too it. With various changes to the class and game crit for example isn't as efficient and overall stamblade damage is a slight bit lower than it used to be. This wouldn't be a problem if so many other classes didn't have the same burst we have now without needing to sacrifice the survivability. Yeah you can still get a heavy attk/incap/execute weave and burst some1 down but you can get that same burst with more survivability doing a heavy attk/crit rush/dawnbreaker/execute on stam sorc. I'd just like a bit more survivability now that other classes have received comparable burst.

On a side note can some1 at zos fix incap, why is it that in capping some1 with shuffle gives a dodge chance to not only your damage but the debuffs and the cc

Cloak shouldn't purge dots, just not be broken by them. In fact cloak should also have a 1sec period at the beginning of it where you can't be revealed no matter what. This skill pretty much IS nightblade, as a class, it's quite sad that the class defining skill for nightblade is gimped beyond belief and is only useful for nuking people out of stealth now.