Infinite Sustain IS Killing ESO

AtraisMachina

Eso is bad

leepalmer95

Solariken wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

It's a double edged sword . On Magblade the sustaine is so needed to keep certain builds playable while on some classes it really gives to much . We all seen the tanks that do no damage but can out defend entire groups beating on them . We need tanks and we need sustaine for many classes but ZoS is having a difficult time finding the sweet spot . The Marrowind patch is going to possibly change some of this . I have no idea for sure as I haven't had access to any of it .

I still don't have any clue what is the right way of approaching the issue .

@Rohamad_Ali That's very true, dear friend. Hence the agree I gave you. However, I think ZOS may have dug a hole a wee bit too deep in regards to sustain. And see, my concerns are also on a PvE-based level. While infinite sustain needs to go away, you have class builds like MagDK's who have horrible sustain straight out the gate. You know? And I know this, because I use my MagDK the second-most (my MagSorc is my main), and also have done the vast majority of my PvP'ing on my MagDK. So I know how sensitive of a thing sustain is. I really do. From both a PvE and PvP perspective. But, something must be done. Because as it is now, it's far too unhealthy for the game as a whole. And yes, it does pain me to say that as a MagDK secondary.

I keep seeing this parroted on the forums about how magDk sustain is so much worse than everything else, but it's a little disingenuous or at least small-picture perception. Why does everyone think they can roll their mDk into PvP wearing 1h/s, heavy armor, Bloodspawn, and block-cast spamming talons all over the place and then get bent out of shape because they have low damage and terrible sustain? That setup absolutely should have sustain and damage issues because it's an attempt to have everything without sacrifice. If you want great damage and sustain, you have to do the same thing the other classes have to do - don yourself a dress and a pew-pew stick.

Because every other class can roll heavy, s&b, monster set and sustain just fine.

In fact those heavy mag dk's usually use seducer + bloodspawn, giving up basically 7 slots to sustain and still have the worst sustain.

Mag dk's can't survive in light.

bg22

StamDk complaining ab 1v1 balance. XD

Ded.

Kensei_ESO

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

It's a double edged sword . On Magblade the sustaine is so needed to keep certain builds playable while on some classes it really gives to much . We all seen the tanks that do no damage but can out defend entire groups beating on them . We need tanks and we need sustaine for many classes but ZoS is having a difficult time finding the sweet spot . The Marrowind patch is going to possibly change some of this . I have no idea for sure as I haven't had access to any of it .

I still don't have any clue what is the right way of approaching the issue .

@Rohamad_Ali That's very true, dear friend. Hence the agree I gave you. However, I think ZOS may have dug a hole a wee bit too deep in regards to sustain. And see, my concerns are also on a PvE-based level. While infinite sustain needs to go away, you have class builds like MagDK's who have horrible sustain straight out the gate. You know? And I know this, because I use my MagDK the second-most (my MagSorc is my main), and also have done the vast majority of my PvP'ing on my MagDK. So I know how sensitive of a thing sustain is. I really do. From both a PvE and PvP perspective. But, something must be done. Because as it is now, it's far too unhealthy for the game as a whole. And yes, it does pain me to say that as a MagDK secondary.

I keep seeing this parroted on the forums about how magDk sustain is so much worse than everything else, but it's a little disingenuous or at least small-picture perception. Why does everyone think they can roll their mDk into PvP wearing 1h/s, heavy armor, Bloodspawn, and block-cast spamming talons all over the place and then get bent out of shape because they have low damage and terrible sustain? That setup absolutely should have sustain and damage issues because it's an attempt to have everything without sacrifice. If you want great damage and sustain, you have to do the same thing the other classes have to do - don yourself a dress and a pew-pew stick.

Because every other class can roll heavy, s&b, monster set and sustain just fine.

In fact those heavy mag dk's usually use seducer + bloodspawn, giving up basically 7 slots to sustain and still have the worst sustain.

Mag dk's can't survive in light.

Oh my bad, you're right, there are tons of mSorcs and mNb's running that setup...

Oh wait.

No there aren't.

Fasold666

You got outplayed. That's it. Tbh, I was kinda happy to see you died at the end of the video after you chased him and outnumbered him. That dude just did a good job on using LOS. He obviously learned how to kite a couple people away from a zerg to make them chase him and then kill them one by one.

Sorry but I don't know anything else to say but l2p.
I wish less people would call for a nerf this and that and instead improve their gameplay, optimize their builds, get out of their zerg and go for some outnumbered gameplay to acutally improve.

Attackopsn

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wN74sRAnTjY
He gets 1vxed quite often, even when sustain isn't broken.. so, wouldn't pay too much mind to this

Ch4mpTW

Attackopsn wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wN74sRAnTjY
He gets 1vxed quite often, even when sustain isn't broken.. so, wouldn't pay too much mind to this

@Attackopsn Is that right? So are you going to also tell everyone of how that occurred when there was no champion points available, and during the double AP event...? And how also, I wasn't there for long? If you're going to try and kick dirt on my name. Tell the FULL story. In fact, I should thank you. Thank you for proving my point of how you're capable of "1vX" even with no CP active, and having heavy CC's applied on you. Mind explaining that?

Or are you going to also tell everyone how you exploited the TBS glitch months back, and set a few records and got your reputation of being a good player behind it...? Inb4 you deny it, here. Let me tag a few old buddies, that you may know. @Mortehl @Titans_Bane

Edit: And I want you to decline any of this, so we can take things a step further. Lol. Want to make videos talking about how I'm "exposed", and stir up drama...? Lol. Okay. Gladly. Mind you, you're also the same person who had issues with the fact that I had a problem with you and those in your guild charging people for VMoL clears. Rather than helping others out, and teaching mechanics. You sold carry runs. Just like you sold VMA runs. Whoops. That kinda slipped out too. My bad.

Attackopsn

1. I have never exploited a tbs mundus bug in my life, and I am still number 1 on every leaderboard on your server even after they fixed it. I've boosted AP, that's it hun. You harass people, cry about nothing, slander me with complete nonsense and fantasy, and at the end of the day, you get 1vxed. Why were you 1vxed? Because you aren't very good at the game. Yes there are issues, but the video you present and the issues you highlight are utter nonsense. Cheers!

Fasold666

Btw, I just noticed that mount chase...that already explains a lot.

Ch4mpTW

Attackopsn wrote: »

1. I have never exploited a tbs mundus bug in my life, and I am still number 1 on every leaderboard on your server even after they fixed it. I've boosted AP, that's it hun. You harass people, cry about nothing, slander me with complete nonsense and fantasy, and at the end of the day, you get 1vxed. Cheers!

You haven't...? Really? And boosting AP is definitely not the only thing you've done. But that all in and of itself is off topic. Just like your original post here was.

And why are you so quick to leave the topic now? Lmao. Because I'm pretty sure that I can have at least 20+ people vouch for me right now to say otherwise, with video proof. Even your ex-guildies. You even slipped up and showed it during 1 of your streams. But okay. Lol. "Cheers" as you say.

Attackopsn

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Attackopsn wrote: »

1. I have never exploited a tbs mundus bug in my life, and I am still number 1 on every leaderboard on your server even after they fixed it. I've boosted AP, that's it hun. You harass people, cry about nothing, slander me with complete nonsense and fantasy, and at the end of the day, you get 1vxed. Cheers!

You haven't...? Really? And boosting AP is definitely not the only thing you've done. But that all in and of itself is off topic. Just like your original post here was.

And why are you so quick to leave the topic now? Lmao. Because I'm pretty sure that I can have at least 20+ people vouch for me right now to say otherwise, with video proof. Even your ex-guildies. You even slipped up and showed it during 1 of your streams. But okay. Lol. "Cheers" as you say.

I slipped up during one of my streams? lmao I have never exploited a mundus bug in my life, players like mortehl and others are salty because I left a dying guild and made my own without them, I'm sure you have video proof, and the only reason I'm quick to leave is because I have work in half an hour sooo.. haha, am very interested to see what kind of funny stuff you post
@ZOS feel free to look through every second of my history and check for mundus glitching, it would be really nice to see that salty rumor die

Cadbury

Well, at the end of the day, sustain is the next target anyway for ZOS with the kerfuffle over CP cost reduction removal and regen nerf.

Whatever the case, Morrowind is gonna shake things up for all of us. Buckle up...

usmcjdking

This is not really a sustain issue. OP and his friend did not bash 1 dark deal.

S1ipperyJim

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

After being overwhelmed with joy at the great news of ZOS taking action against dishonest players, I decided to pop-in ESO and play a bit. And literally within the first 10mins., I encounter what you see above. WTF is that?

You're able to:
- Dodge Roll
- Sprint
- Self-Heal
- Tank
- And put out crazy high numbers of DPS

That's NOT okay. And while I'm aware I screwed up a bit in my rotations, what happened above should not be allowed in anyway. How the hell are you able to do all that, all the while I'm also applying stamina AND magicka resource poisons? Seriously? And the dude isn't even an emperor.

The fact that you didn't have infinite sustain yourself doesn't support your contention. When they remove reduce cost CP it'll hurt players like yourself more than these players who min max and know their builds inside and out.

Ch4mpTW

@Attackopsn I just noticed something by the way, that doesn't add up. In that video you just linked of me being "exposed". How is it possible with the thief mundus to do so much damage, barely take any damage, heal as much as you were, sustain as were, deal with as much crowd-control, AND fight off numerous players? Even with a non-recovery mundus, when champion points were NOT allowed on ANY server. Can you explain that...? Because mathematically, that shouldn't occur. And I'd really love for you to break it down.

Mind you, I can replicate any type of build you throw out. And run the numbers in it. So if in fact you weren't exploiting in that video, or if there wasn't anything fishy at all it should be able to be proven and done.

Attackopsn

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

@Attackopsn I just noticed something by the way, that doesn't add up. In that video you just linked of me being "exposed". How is it possible with the thief mundus to do so much damage, barely take any damage, heal as much as you were, sustain as were, deal with as much crowd-control, AND fight off numerous players? Even with a non-recovery mundus, when champion points were NOT allowed on ANY server. Can you explain that...? Because mathematically, that shouldn't occur. And I'd really love for you to break it down.

Mind you, I can replicate any type of build you throw out. And run the numbers in it. So if in fact you weren't exploiting in that video, or if there wasn't anything fishy at all it should be able to be proven and done.

Between engine guardian, Channeled Focus, seducer, transmutation, and radiant aura, which btw, is quite strong when zergling *** like you jump in, I'd hope at a minimum I'd be sustaining. Also I wasn't really doing that much damage at all in my heavy seducer, you just suck, you didn't even try to get an embers heal, Lol.

Fasold666

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

How is it possible with the thief mundus to do so much damage, barely take any damage, heal as much as you were, sustain as were, deal with as much crowd-control, AND fight off numerous players? Even with a non-recovery mundus, when champion points were NOT allowed on ANY server. Can you explain that...? Because mathematically, that shouldn't occur. And I'd really love for you to break it down.

Wait, you want to tell us you are calculating the damage and healing output and so on in that video? Lol ......

FlicksZ

I agree with the CP/sustain issues, which was easy to predict before cp even implemented. However, I think you should have known the outcome when he literally put 200m between himself and the zerg like Usain Bolt.

I am no better player then you but as soon as I saw him escape I knew what was coming when you mounted up. Even with current sustain state its no small feat to escape. It relies just as heavily upon player error as it does player skill. He done well. No, he done very well. He didn't even tea bag you.

Berenhir

OP please for heaven's sake, stop posting about PvP. Whatever you achieved in PvE is of no importance to anyone in Cyrodiil.
You are obviously a really bad PvP Player. You are a heavy armor stamdk in reactive and got rekt by someone spamming dizzying swing. You should be embarrassed and stay in PvE land where you can chat with your friends about things you hopefully understand.

This is no bait. It's a honest advice.

Ch4mpTW

Attackopsn wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

@Attackopsn I just noticed something by the way, that doesn't add up. In that video you just linked of me being "exposed". How is it possible with the thief mundus to do so much damage, barely take any damage, heal as much as you were, sustain as were, deal with as much crowd-control, AND fight off numerous players? Even with a non-recovery mundus, when champion points were NOT allowed on ANY server. Can you explain that...? Because mathematically, that shouldn't occur. And I'd really love for you to break it down.

Mind you, I can replicate any type of build you throw out. And run the numbers in it. So if in fact you weren't exploiting in that video, or if there wasn't anything fishy at all it should be able to be proven and done.

Between engine guardian, Channeled Focus, seducer, transmutation, and radiant aura, which btw, is quite strong when zergling *** like you jump in. Also I wasn't really doing that much damage at all in my heavy seducer, you just suck, you didn't even try to get an embers heal, Lol.

That doesn't add. You'd barely be doing any damage at all. You'd have sacrificed damage for sustain. In that video you linked, I too was wearing heavy Seducer and Engine Guardian. Lol. Please try again. I'm listening. You weren't even emperor at the time, and the numbers don't lie. So again, how were you able to do what you did? Channeled Focus, Seducer, Transmutation, Radiant Aura, etc. would not cause your health to fly back up so fast. Plus no CP. That's a factor. And according to the video, you're a vampire. That's even more of a negative against health recovery, although an added benefit to magicka recovery. Still, you shouldn't be able to do as much damage as you were. Same with get out of those situations if heavy CC. So elaborate.

Edit: I noticed you also ate a Destro Ult. Mind explaining?

Attackopsn

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Attackopsn wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

@Attackopsn I just noticed something by the way, that doesn't add up. In that video you just linked of me being "exposed". How is it possible with the thief mundus to do so much damage, barely take any damage, heal as much as you were, sustain as were, deal with as much crowd-control, AND fight off numerous players? Even with a non-recovery mundus, when champion points were NOT allowed on ANY server. Can you explain that...? Because mathematically, that shouldn't occur. And I'd really love for you to break it down.

Mind you, I can replicate any type of build you throw out. And run the numbers in it. So if in fact you weren't exploiting in that video, or if there wasn't anything fishy at all it should be able to be proven and done.

Between engine guardian, Channeled Focus, seducer, transmutation, and radiant aura, which btw, is quite strong when zergling *** like you jump in. Also I wasn't really doing that much damage at all in my heavy seducer, you just suck, you didn't even try to get an embers heal, Lol.

That doesn't add. You'd barely be doing any damage at all. You'd have sacrificed damage for sustain. In that video you linked, I too was wearing heavy Seducer and Engine Guardian. Lol. Please try again. I'm listening. You weren't even emperor at the time, and the numbers don't lie. So again, how were you able to do what you did? Channeled Focus, Seducer, Transmutation, Radiant Aura, etc. would not cause your health to fly back up so fast. Plus no CP. That's a factor. And according to the video, you're a vampire. That's even more of a negative against health recovery, although an added benefit to magicka recovery. Still, you shouldn't be able to do as much damage as you were. Same with get out of those situations if heavy CC. So elaborate.

Edit: I noticed you also ate a Destro Ult. Mind explaining?

The moment you said health recovery and magplar in the same sentence I realized that this conversation was pointless. Watch the video, maybe go back to the drawing board, take your time this time around, you're gonna need it.

Ch4mpTW

Attackopsn wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Attackopsn wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

@Attackopsn I just noticed something by the way, that doesn't add up. In that video you just linked of me being "exposed". How is it possible with the thief mundus to do so much damage, barely take any damage, heal as much as you were, sustain as were, deal with as much crowd-control, AND fight off numerous players? Even with a non-recovery mundus, when champion points were NOT allowed on ANY server. Can you explain that...? Because mathematically, that shouldn't occur. And I'd really love for you to break it down.

Mind you, I can replicate any type of build you throw out. And run the numbers in it. So if in fact you weren't exploiting in that video, or if there wasn't anything fishy at all it should be able to be proven and done.

Between engine guardian, Channeled Focus, seducer, transmutation, and radiant aura, which btw, is quite strong when zergling *** like you jump in. Also I wasn't really doing that much damage at all in my heavy seducer, you just suck, you didn't even try to get an embers heal, Lol.

That doesn't add. You'd barely be doing any damage at all. You'd have sacrificed damage for sustain. In that video you linked, I too was wearing heavy Seducer and Engine Guardian. Lol. Please try again. I'm listening. You weren't even emperor at the time, and the numbers don't lie. So again, how were you able to do what you did? Channeled Focus, Seducer, Transmutation, Radiant Aura, etc. would not cause your health to fly back up so fast. Plus no CP. That's a factor. And according to the video, you're a vampire. That's even more of a negative against health recovery, although an added benefit to magicka recovery. Still, you shouldn't be able to do as much damage as you were. Same with get out of those situations if heavy CC. So elaborate.

Edit: I noticed you also ate a Destro Ult. Mind explaining?

The moment you said health recovery and magplar in the same sentence I realized that this conversation was pointless. Watch the video, maybe go back to the drawing board, take your time this time around, you're gonna need it.

All the BoL's in the world shouldn't stop you from being effected with cost reduction poisons, CC's, a destro ult, and numerous people wailing on you. Especially not in a no-CP environment. Plus as you said, you weren't even in tanky gear. Heavy armor adds defense; sure. However, you mean to tell me that there's no foul play at hand being eaten up by multiple people attacking you in the gear you're in, with the wrong mundus, and all those factors at hand? Lmao. Okay. Yeah. Right. This dialogue is definitely over. Anytime you want to run that build by me, or anyone who'll happily crush numbers. You let me know. Because there's obviously something being left out of the picture. But again, I'm happy you showed that video.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom Mind having a look at that video when you get the chance, and having some fellow employees also try to replicate that if possible by a chance? Because mathematically, that shouldn't even be possible. I'm also going to try and replicate it with some buddies in a few moments personally.

Cadbury

MFW I realize I've seen certain PS4 players ingame

hmsdragonfly

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Edit: I noticed you also ate a Destro Ult. Mind explaining?

He healed through your destro ult with jabs.

Destro ulting a solo player tho. That's not something you should boast about, actually you should feel ashamed of it.
Don't do it next time.

DDemon

You were barely attacking him... Your ultimate missed and you started executing him when he was 100% health. Your friend didn't even bother healing himself, so obviously he died.

This guy totally outplayed you.

hmsdragonfly

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Attackopsn wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Attackopsn wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

@Attackopsn I just noticed something by the way, that doesn't add up. In that video you just linked of me being "exposed". How is it possible with the thief mundus to do so much damage, barely take any damage, heal as much as you were, sustain as were, deal with as much crowd-control, AND fight off numerous players? Even with a non-recovery mundus, when champion points were NOT allowed on ANY server. Can you explain that...? Because mathematically, that shouldn't occur. And I'd really love for you to break it down.

Mind you, I can replicate any type of build you throw out. And run the numbers in it. So if in fact you weren't exploiting in that video, or if there wasn't anything fishy at all it should be able to be proven and done.

Between engine guardian, Channeled Focus, seducer, transmutation, and radiant aura, which btw, is quite strong when zergling *** like you jump in. Also I wasn't really doing that much damage at all in my heavy seducer, you just suck, you didn't even try to get an embers heal, Lol.

That doesn't add. You'd barely be doing any damage at all. You'd have sacrificed damage for sustain. In that video you linked, I too was wearing heavy Seducer and Engine Guardian. Lol. Please try again. I'm listening. You weren't even emperor at the time, and the numbers don't lie. So again, how were you able to do what you did? Channeled Focus, Seducer, Transmutation, Radiant Aura, etc. would not cause your health to fly back up so fast. Plus no CP. That's a factor. And according to the video, you're a vampire. That's even more of a negative against health recovery, although an added benefit to magicka recovery. Still, you shouldn't be able to do as much damage as you were. Same with get out of those situations if heavy CC. So elaborate.

Edit: I noticed you also ate a Destro Ult. Mind explaining?

The moment you said health recovery and magplar in the same sentence I realized that this conversation was pointless. Watch the video, maybe go back to the drawing board, take your time this time around, you're gonna need it.

All the BoL's in the world shouldn't stop you from being effected with cost reduction poisons, CC's, a destro ult, and numerous people wailing on you. Especially not in a no-CP environment. Plus as you said, you weren't even in tanky gear. Heavy armor adds defense; sure. However, you mean to tell me that there's no foul play at hand being eaten up by multiple people attacking you in the gear you're in, with the wrong mundus, and all those factors at hand? Lmao. Okay. Yeah. Right. This dialogue is definitely over. Anytime you want to run that build by me, or anyone who'll happily crush numbers. You let me know. Because there's obviously something being left out of the picture. But again, I'm happy you showed that video.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom Mind having a look at that video when you get the chance, and having some fellow employees also try to replicate that if possible by a chance? Because mathematically, that shouldn't even be possible. I'm also going to try and replicate it with some buddies in a few moments personally.

OMG, you zerg, destro ult and cost poison a solo player? All three at the same time? Dude, I hate magplars with a passion, but i either 2v1 or cost poison them, not all three, that's over the top dirty.

Banana

Not all of us can sustain indefinitely

Riga_Mortis

It's been a while since the OP moaned about something or other on the forums so guess this was due.

Ch4mpTW

Riga_Mortis wrote: »

It's been a while since the OP moaned about something or other on the forums so guess this was due.

...

ArgoCye

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

You got outplayed.

You chased down one player with others and went in thinking easy kill but instead got packed up and sent home crying to forum.

The reduced cost regen nerf coming is only going to favor bad players like you an the others who chased him down while hurting that guy who outplayed you.

Pathetic how this game is going so easy mode

Nah, you're wrong there, Princess. The nerf to sustain will GREATLY help skillful players and harm poor ones. There's nothing skillful about being able to spam BoL.