Infinite Sustain IS Killing ESO

hmsdragonfly

Maybe stop zerging the guy first?

Ch4mpTW

Iyas wrote: »

Oh and btw. There is always the no CP campaign for you if you hate the CP sustain

And dont come with on console no one wants to play azura booohoo crybaby stuff. Populate the no CP Server then with all of your mates who hate CP sustain.


Oh and btw btw no one cares about your pve achievements. Its PvP you were talking about and you are one of these Hardcore chasers (even mounted up wtf) who failed zerging one Guy and then gets killed.

Propably you reported him for cheating because no one should be able to beats you...

... Zerging 1 guy? I didn't know those people. Those were randoms I just encountered chasing someone, so I said, "Why not give it a whirl?" Also, I didn't report anyone for cheating. Yooooo, you deadass need to cool your jets. Because you're honestly assuming far too much, and doing the most right now. I don't know who you're trying to impress and flex for, but n'ah. Not here.

And also, none of what you just posted has ANYTHING to do with infinite sustain ruining the game. Except for how if I have a problem with it, to go play in Azura's Star. Smfh. Some of the toxic apples from the trees these days... Damn.

Kay1

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Kay1 wrote: »

So the OP is going to ignore all the real and honest reply and believe a guy who thinks like him, that he lost because of OP stuff.

If you are from EU I would like to invite you to do a 1v2 without cp and dark deal against me, I would like to see how it ends.

If you're not from EU I'm 100% sure that if you offer that guy a 1v1 or a 1v2 without dark deal and cp he would accept.

Let's get 1 thing straight. I don't normally PvP nowadays, and I don't follow the meta and trends. Let's get another thing straight. When I was actively PvP'ing, I used a MagDK. I'm far more knowledgeable of MagDK combat, than I am of StamDK combat. They are worlds apart in regards to differences. Although in a PvE environment, I'm pretty damn good with them both. Considering I've got Flawless Conqueror with them both, and have beaten VMoL with them both numerous times. So all that wolfing, and talking about how I'm a garbage player and making all those rude comments...? Keep them to yourself. Because I'm not about to sit here and ego flex with someone who doesn't know a damn thing about me. M'kay?

Also, let's go back on topic. Even if I was as you claimed to be the most "horrible" player and all that. How in the hell does that defend obviously unbalanced design...? How? I don't get it. If something is unbalanced, than it is what it is. Call it for what it is, and nothing else. If it's a CP issue, than call it as such. If it's a gear issue, or a class issue. And so on. Call it as such. But at the end of the day, infinite sustain is a HUGE problem that is killing the game.


... Meanwhile you're claiming doing away with infinite sustain is making the game "easy mode"? So it's "easy mode", when you can't tank and put out high damage at the same time? All the while healing yourself like it's nothing? Lmao. Okay Brodie. Whatever you say.

I've never said you are bad, or horrible or a garbage player? Can you tell me when did I said that?

Being flawless or skinned doesn't make you good, [SNIp].

It's a learn to play issue OP, I'm really being honest with you, like you said I don't know you, why I should be mad at you? I'm being 100% honest what happened there is a L2P issue.

I can do the exact same thing he does on a CP campaign without CP in a moderated way (Without dodge rolling and blocking more instead) so no, it's not because of the CP is because of:

1. He's a PvP player, by his moves and how he knows how to retreat he's definitely a solo player, a pro solo player is like 10 players in 1 so don't expect to win a lot against those.

2. He's wearing Medium armor by the look of his hands and health, so this guy really deserve a cookie because he's practically playing something that is currently garbage while you are using a cancer heavy set (Reactive), so again, you lost because you didn't played as well as him.

3. You didn't had buffs up, you didn't cared about your mates, I'm no expert Xv1 player but when I'm in group I do care a lot about my group because if we start dying we will loose, you didnt healed your mate, instead you just spammed dyz blow unbuffed so you lost half of the damage.

4. You didn't interrupt him like I said, you didn't used your ulti timed with another direct hit skill or when he had low health to completely execute him

5. You don't anim cancel, you have done vMsa and vMol so I really don't get how you don't anim cancel in PvP, PvP is the place that really requires you to be good at anim cancel so start doing it more.

6. Your build is pretty bad, you have a tank build but you wanna deal damage that's not gonna work, I recommend you using something different, if you like to be tanky and to deal damage you can try Ravager and Bloodspawn or maybe another different set, I won't recommend you Fury even if is the best heavy set that set is purely made for solo players that can handle 5 players on them, so if you're more into group stuff just go for Ravager.


I didn't wanted to be rude with you OP, with just letters you can misunderstand it, I apologize for that.

[Edited for TOS]

Korah_Eaglecry

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Well they are removing cost reduction and nerfing regen from 25-15% in cp next patch

Hes more than aware. This is more or less one of his weekly rant threads that he puts out so he can farm as many likes, awesomes and insightfuls as he can off of whatever drama is sweeping the forums at that time.

Iyas

Blaming it on Infinite ressources and then dont even Interrupt one of the Dark deals from the stam sorc.

You are the only person to blame here.

Yolokin_Swagonborn

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

To all the people saying he got outplayed, that's true, but you are missing the point. While it is true that he didn't bash dark deal enough or time his burst, that's what's wrong with the current meta. IT'S BORING.

The entire meta of tanking up, getting evasion up, then spamming vigor while flopping around on the ground dodge rolling until someone makes a mistake or you time your burst perfectly is what's wrong with the game.

People can get enough resources and mitigation now that they are un-killable unless you time your burst. But it didn't always work this way.

Before the disgusting champion system and removal of softcaps broke and unbalanced the game, we had a resource management meta. Instead of stacking damage sets and letting CP fill in the gaps of your build, you actually had to build for sustain and use more heavy attacks. Fights were much slower but much more meaningful.

If you didn't manage your resources, you died. Now with CP, power creep, and no softcaps, you don't even have to manage your resources, just mash buttons until your ult is up and you can get that sick combo.

For some people, this type of play is all they have ever experienced in ESO. So of course they are going to argue for the status quo and tell others to "get gud." I wish people realized there was a much more elegant way to play this game and we could get rid of this Call Of Duty, 360 no scope burst garbage that ESO gameplay has devolved to.

@Yolokin_Swagonborn That's what I'm saying. I agree with you 10 fold. I'll admit, I'm far from an adept at StamDK PvP. And overall, this isn't a PvP issue. And I'm hoping this doesn't get placed in the PvP section, as this wouldn't belong there. It's a sustain problem, meaning it's a global issue. My knowledge on PvP combat with a StamDK is atrocious. As is my performance with 1 in a PvP environment. I get it. And I know I made tons of tons of mistakes. However, I wanted to try something new. As when I did use to PvP frequently, I was on my MagDK.

But all that aside, infinite sustain is a huge problem. And it's not something that is okay. People can pick apart my mistakes all they want, but it's still not going to get away from the fact that infinite sustain has got to go. It's killing the game. It genuinely is.

Well I agree with you on the meta but not with the stam sorc nerf cry. If you want to have a discussion about resource management but you also call for nerfs to stam sorc, (while posting a video getting 1vX'ed by a stam sorc), you are going to derail your own thread and invite "get gud" type of comments.

Dark Deal has plenty of counters. You could have been pelting him with poison arrow and making it impossible for him to channel it. Every class has some strong abilities, if they didn't, they would be boring.

Just wait till everyone is running bone pirate + jewels of misrule next patch. Dark Deal will be the least of your worries.

What ZOS needs to do is bite the bullet and either remove CP completely from PvP or limit it to about 200. Then put a cap on how much damage/heals/shields you can get from stacking attributes, then remove battle spirit. That will really fix the meta and open up the game for hybrid builds as well.

CyrusArya

You literally have snipe and caltrops on your bars..I don't really care what you have to say. You got juked the *** out by a stam sorc, learn to play son.

ADarklore

Funny OP admits he isn't great with the build he's playing, and yet complains because he was outperformed by a player who clearly knew how to play his class... and then comes to the forums to demand a nerf. It's these type of players we need less of in the game, and more players who are dedicated to L2P and maximizing their builds to perform at their best. I'm not even talking min/maxing, I'm talking simply learning to maximize what you play... and not whining because you got beat by a better player who took the time to do it.

dday3six

PVP certainly has issues I do not disagree with that, but I have no other way to say it: your build's bad, your play's sloppy, and people hone in on that issue because it will still exist no matter what changes are made to PVP. We could reset to the "glory days" that players like Swagonborn pine for, and bad play with bad builds will still get you dead.

Sustain did not beat you in that fight. Lacking CC and threat application did. You cannot bring up one issue, PVP imbalances, then in your example display poor setup and execution then expect people to just ignore it when it clearly contributed to your loss.

Waffennacht

Just real quick.

Played a week in no CP.

Red! And Empty! The whole week!

Popular? My foot! Not a single bar on any team, took a keep... no allies nor enemies showed.

On xbox NA no CP, while different, is a dang ghost town!

BRogueNZ

Expected another nerf templar thread but what do you know, its all classes. lmao

Smmokkee

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Kay1 wrote: »

So the OP is going to ignore all the real and honest reply and believe a guy who thinks like him, that he lost because of OP stuff.

If you are from EU I would like to invite you to do a 1v2 without cp and dark deal against me, I would like to see how it ends.

If you're not from EU I'm 100% sure that if you offer that guy a 1v1 or a 1v2 without dark deal and cp he would accept.

Let's get 1 thing straight. I don't normally PvP nowadays, and I don't follow the meta and trends. Let's get another thing straight. When I was actively PvP'ing, I used a MagDK. I'm far more knowledgeable of MagDK combat, than I am of StamDK combat. They are worlds apart in regards to differences. Although in a PvE environment, I'm pretty damn good with them both. Considering I've got Flawless Conqueror with them both, and have beaten VMoL with them both numerous times. So all that wolfing, and talking about how I'm a garbage player and making all those rude comments...? Keep them to yourself. Because I'm not about to sit here and ego flex with someone who doesn't know a damn thing about me. M'kay?

Also, let's go back on topic. Even if I was as you claimed to be the most "horrible" player and all that. How in the hell does that defend obviously unbalanced design...? How? I don't get it. If something is unbalanced, than it is what it is. Call it for what it is, and nothing else. If it's a CP issue, than call it as such. If it's a gear issue, or a class issue. And so on. Call it as such. But at the end of the day, infinite sustain is a HUGE problem that is killing the game.


... Meanwhile you're claiming doing away with infinite sustain is making the game "easy mode"? So it's "easy mode", when you can't tank and put out high damage at the same time? All the while healing yourself like it's nothing? Lmao. Okay Brodie. Whatever you say.

You don't run meta? Lol since when was a heavy armor reactive build not with the new pvp meta? Even with resource cost poisons???? Lol dude.. are you just talking out of your ass or what?

There was a couple times you were just standing still doing nothing while the guy was actively punching your face in..

I can't believe you can't watch that video and see how you screwed up and when you could of actually made some things happen.

ADarklore

Seems to me, based on this and other posts from the OP, that he is just bitter and seeks to find anything in ESO to complain about.

Rudyard

He casted Dark Deal fifteen times. FIFTEEN! Ya know, you can still use Dark Deal in the no-CP campaign...

waterfairy

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Well they are removing cost reduction and nerfing regen from 25-15% in cp next patch

That's only going to hurt pve players. Pvp players that others complain about abuse the cheese flavor of the month and that will never change.

Ch4mpTW

Smmokkee wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Kay1 wrote: »

So the OP is going to ignore all the real and honest reply and believe a guy who thinks like him, that he lost because of OP stuff.

If you are from EU I would like to invite you to do a 1v2 without cp and dark deal against me, I would like to see how it ends.

If you're not from EU I'm 100% sure that if you offer that guy a 1v1 or a 1v2 without dark deal and cp he would accept.

Let's get 1 thing straight. I don't normally PvP nowadays, and I don't follow the meta and trends. Let's get another thing straight. When I was actively PvP'ing, I used a MagDK. I'm far more knowledgeable of MagDK combat, than I am of StamDK combat. They are worlds apart in regards to differences. Although in a PvE environment, I'm pretty damn good with them both. Considering I've got Flawless Conqueror with them both, and have beaten VMoL with them both numerous times. So all that wolfing, and talking about how I'm a garbage player and making all those rude comments...? Keep them to yourself. Because I'm not about to sit here and ego flex with someone who doesn't know a damn thing about me. M'kay?

Also, let's go back on topic. Even if I was as you claimed to be the most "horrible" player and all that. How in the hell does that defend obviously unbalanced design...? How? I don't get it. If something is unbalanced, than it is what it is. Call it for what it is, and nothing else. If it's a CP issue, than call it as such. If it's a gear issue, or a class issue. And so on. Call it as such. But at the end of the day, infinite sustain is a HUGE problem that is killing the game.


... Meanwhile you're claiming doing away with infinite sustain is making the game "easy mode"? So it's "easy mode", when you can't tank and put out high damage at the same time? All the while healing yourself like it's nothing? Lmao. Okay Brodie. Whatever you say.

You don't run meta? Lol since when was a heavy armor reactive build not with the new pvp meta? Even with resource cost poisons???? Lol dude.. are you just talking out of your ass or what?

There was a couple times you were just standing still doing nothing while the guy was actively punching your face in..

I can't believe you can't watch that video and see how you screwed up and when you could of actually made some things happen.

No. I don't run the meta (PvP-wise), and I don't know what it is. That's rather rude of you. I used Reactive, because I hate gankers. And since playing last, I recalled facing a lot of players who are NB's. Not to mention I hate being CC'd in general. Thus my choice of Reactive. As for resource cost poisons, yes. I do indeed run them, because I hate INFINITE SUSTAIN. So logically I went with it, in an attempt to counter it.

Now my question to you is, are you going to actually comment on INFINITE SUSTAIN that's running rampant, or keep throwing out rude comments? =/

Sigtric

While we are nerfing things will someone alert the town criers that their leader has unquit the game, again.

Kensei_ESO

s7732425ub17_ESO wrote: »

Play on a non-CP campaign. It's purely a problem with CP.

QFT

Non-CP is the way forward.

Splattercat_83

How about just pull all cp out of PvP and leave pve alone for once?

Ch4mpTW

Sigtric wrote: »

While we are nerfing things will someone alert the town criers that their leader has unquit the game, again.

Hopefully like @Tryxus you too can get the agrees and awesomes you're fishing for, by baiting and making rude comments that are off-topic. In fact, I personally hope you get at least 10 of each for making such an amazing contribution to the topic at hand.

zyk

I agree that sustain is too easy.

But:

- in your in your clip is cheese vs cheese.
- his cheese seemed much better optimized.
- you got sucked into playing his game.

All in all, this fight is a good example of why I'm posting and not pvping.

Ch4mpTW

zyk wrote: »

I agree that sustain is too easy.

But:

- in your in your clip is cheese vs cheese.
- his cheese seemed better optimized.
- you got sucked into playing his game

All in all, this fight is a good example of why I'm posting and not pvping.

@zyk I don't even blame you, comrade. Not in the slightest bit. I called myself dipping my foot into the water, and having a go in PvP after such a long vacation from it. And the regrets are real and strong. If I had known that I'd be so immediately put-off, and would end-up making a thread of my negative experience...? I wouldn't have even made the champion point changes I made. Let alone getting gear off of an alt/mule. PvP is horrible at the moment, and in my opinion at an all time low. But then again, this isn't so much of a PvP issue as it is an issue with a bigger problem: Infinite Sustain.

Rohamad_Ali

It's a double edged sword . On Magblade the sustaine is so needed to keep certain builds playable while on some classes it really gives to much . We all seen the tanks that do no damage but can out defend entire groups beating on them . We need tanks and we need sustaine for many classes but ZoS is having a difficult time finding the sweet spot . The Marrowind patch is going to possibly change some of this . I have no idea for sure as I haven't had access to any of it .

I still don't have any clue what is the right way of approaching the issue .

AzraelKrieg

So you and your buddies lost to a guy doing the same thing as you and you feel that you got screwed and should have won because he did a better job at it? You lost, get over it. And for god's sake stop creating topics about PvP when you hate playing it so much. You sound like PvE crybaby carebear.

Ch4mpTW

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

It's a double edged sword . On Magblade the sustaine is so needed to keep certain builds playable while on some classes it really gives to much . We all seen the tanks that do no damage but can out defend entire groups beating on them . We need tanks and we need sustaine for many classes but ZoS is having a difficult time finding the sweet spot . The Marrowind patch is going to possibly change some of this . I have no idea for sure as I haven't had access to any of it .

I still don't have any clue what is the right way of approaching the issue .

@Rohamad_Ali That's very true, dear friend. Hence the agree I gave you. However, I think ZOS may have dug a hole a wee bit too deep in regards to sustain. And see, my concerns are also on a PvE-based level. While infinite sustain needs to go away, you have class builds like MagDK's who have horrible sustain straight out the gate. You know? And I know this, because I use my MagDK the second-most (my MagSorc is my main), and also have done the vast majority of my PvP'ing on my MagDK. So I know how sensitive of a thing sustain is. I really do. From both a PvE and PvP perspective. But, something must be done. Because as it is now, it's far too unhealthy for the game as a whole. And yes, it does pain me to say that as a MagDK secondary.

Sigtric

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Sigtric wrote: »

While we are nerfing things will someone alert the town criers that their leader has unquit the game, again.

Hopefully like @Tryxus you too can get the agrees and awesomes you're fishing for, by baiting and making rude comments that are off-topic. In fact, I personally hope you get at least 10 of each for making such an amazing contribution to the topic at hand.

Thank you for the hopes!

Since you find my contribution so amazing I'll be sure to add another the next time you unquit.

Tryxus

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

It's a double edged sword . On Magblade the sustaine is so needed to keep certain builds playable while on some classes it really gives to much . We all seen the tanks that do no damage but can out defend entire groups beating on them . We need tanks and we need sustaine for many classes but ZoS is having a difficult time finding the sweet spot . The Marrowind patch is going to possibly change some of this . I have no idea for sure as I haven't had access to any of it .

I still don't have any clue what is the right way of approaching the issue .

Well, NB are resource machines thx to Siphoning. It's our edge

There's 2 main contributors to inf on any class: Heavy Armor and the CP. ZOS decided to do smth about the CP, but like you said it's a double edged sword since it'll make it harder for PvE healers and tanks without the CP regen.

The best way for ZOS to handle this would be to remove CP from PvP, and to give Heavy Armor another review

Smmokkee

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Smmokkee wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Kay1 wrote: »

So the OP is going to ignore all the real and honest reply and believe a guy who thinks like him, that he lost because of OP stuff.

If you are from EU I would like to invite you to do a 1v2 without cp and dark deal against me, I would like to see how it ends.

If you're not from EU I'm 100% sure that if you offer that guy a 1v1 or a 1v2 without dark deal and cp he would accept.

Let's get 1 thing straight. I don't normally PvP nowadays, and I don't follow the meta and trends. Let's get another thing straight. When I was actively PvP'ing, I used a MagDK. I'm far more knowledgeable of MagDK combat, than I am of StamDK combat. They are worlds apart in regards to differences. Although in a PvE environment, I'm pretty damn good with them both. Considering I've got Flawless Conqueror with them both, and have beaten VMoL with them both numerous times. So all that wolfing, and talking about how I'm a garbage player and making all those rude comments...? Keep them to yourself. Because I'm not about to sit here and ego flex with someone who doesn't know a damn thing about me. M'kay?

Also, let's go back on topic. Even if I was as you claimed to be the most "horrible" player and all that. How in the hell does that defend obviously unbalanced design...? How? I don't get it. If something is unbalanced, than it is what it is. Call it for what it is, and nothing else. If it's a CP issue, than call it as such. If it's a gear issue, or a class issue. And so on. Call it as such. But at the end of the day, infinite sustain is a HUGE problem that is killing the game.


... Meanwhile you're claiming doing away with infinite sustain is making the game "easy mode"? So it's "easy mode", when you can't tank and put out high damage at the same time? All the while healing yourself like it's nothing? Lmao. Okay Brodie. Whatever you say.

You don't run meta? Lol since when was a heavy armor reactive build not with the new pvp meta? Even with resource cost poisons???? Lol dude.. are you just talking out of your ass or what?

There was a couple times you were just standing still doing nothing while the guy was actively punching your face in..

I can't believe you can't watch that video and see how you screwed up and when you could of actually made some things happen.

No. I don't run the meta (PvP-wise), and I don't know what it is. That's rather rude of you. I used Reactive, because I hate gankers. And since playing last, I recalled facing a lot of players who are NB's. Not to mention I hate being CC'd in general. Thus my choice of Reactive. As for resource cost poisons, yes. I do indeed run them, because I hate INFINITE SUSTAIN. So logically I went with it, in an attempt to counter it.

Now my question to you is, are you going to actually comment on INFINITE SUSTAIN that's running rampant, or keep throwing out rude comments? =/

A reactive heavy armor build with cost increase poisons? Yes you do run the meta.. lol. Which is beside the point.

As for the infinite sustain it really depends. If someone built for high sustain in medium armor then it's not really a problem for me. Especially if the player is skilled enough to maintain his resources. The problem is builds like yours if you want to know the truth. It's just funny that you're built very similar to your opponent and complaining about it. Heavy armor should have survivabiltity not sustain.

KingYogi415

Good players know how to LOS to force 1v1's.

This looked completly normal.

And reactive is not a dps set. It's a zerg tool .

Cheers!

Kensei_ESO

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

It's a double edged sword . On Magblade the sustaine is so needed to keep certain builds playable while on some classes it really gives to much . We all seen the tanks that do no damage but can out defend entire groups beating on them . We need tanks and we need sustaine for many classes but ZoS is having a difficult time finding the sweet spot . The Marrowind patch is going to possibly change some of this . I have no idea for sure as I haven't had access to any of it .

I still don't have any clue what is the right way of approaching the issue .

@Rohamad_Ali That's very true, dear friend. Hence the agree I gave you. However, I think ZOS may have dug a hole a wee bit too deep in regards to sustain. And see, my concerns are also on a PvE-based level. While infinite sustain needs to go away, you have class builds like MagDK's who have horrible sustain straight out the gate. You know? And I know this, because I use my MagDK the second-most (my MagSorc is my main), and also have done the vast majority of my PvP'ing on my MagDK. So I know how sensitive of a thing sustain is. I really do. From both a PvE and PvP perspective. But, something must be done. Because as it is now, it's far too unhealthy for the game as a whole. And yes, it does pain me to say that as a MagDK secondary.

I keep seeing this parroted on the forums about how magDk sustain is so much worse than everything else, but it's a little disingenuous or at least small-picture perception. Why does everyone think they can roll their mDk into PvP wearing 1h/s, heavy armor, Bloodspawn, and block-cast spamming talons all over the place and then get bent out of shape because they have low damage and terrible sustain? That setup absolutely should have sustain and damage issues because it's an attempt to have everything without sacrifice. If you want great damage and sustain, you have to do the same thing the other classes have to do - don yourself a dress and a pew-pew stick.