Infinite Sustain IS Killing ESO

Ch4mpTW

https://youtu.be/mGDNysBzVvI

After being overwhelmed with joy at the great news of ZOS taking action against dishonest players, I decided to pop-in ESO and play a bit. And literally within the first 10mins., I encounter what you see above. WTF is that?

You're able to:
- Dodge Roll
- Sprint
- Self-Heal
- Tank
- And put out crazy high numbers of DPS

That's NOT okay. And while I'm aware I screwed up a bit in my rotations, what happened above should not be allowed in anyway. How the hell are you able to do all that, all the while I'm also applying stamina AND magicka resource poisons? Seriously? And the dude isn't even an emperor.

And the sad part is, you can't fix crap like that without damaging PvE. And that's not okay. Why? Because the developers refuse to seperate what happens in PvP and PvE. They refuse to balance things different. I understand that StamSorcs were too weak previously, and you wanted to buff them. I understand you've gone ahead nerfed stamina a bit. Really. I get it. But for that type of crap to occur still even now is ridiculous.

... Meanwhile people are saying stamina is dead in both PvE and PvP, and yet stamina builds have the highest scores in VMA. And still can do bs like you see above. Lmao. Yeah. Okay. Clearly it's not only an issue within a PvP environment. And while I'm pro-PvE to the fullest, and almost never PvP anymore? That crap has to get out of the game.

PS: And you can't really "git gud" when faced with nonsense like that either.

PSS: I rarely say this, but nerf StamSorcs. They're beyond ridiculous even now. And please don't mention how just because they're not top-tier in trials that their current state is fine, because they're not. Hurricane still is beyond broken. As is the morph that lets them heal and sustain.

leepalmer95

Well they are removing cost reduction and nerfing regen from 25-15% in cp next patch

Tryxus

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Well they are removing cost reduction and nerfing regen from 25-15% in cp next patch

And he did say he'd quit until Morrowind... so...

s7732425ub17_ESO

Play on a non-CP campaign. It's purely a problem with CP.

Ch4mpTW

Tryxus wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Well they are removing cost reduction and nerfing regen from 25-15% in cp next patch

And he did say he'd quit until Morrowind... so...

@Tryxus Out of curiosity, what does that have to do with the topic at hand? Let alone the video above? And if you read the very first sentence, it was a rather spontaneous decision to slide on ESO. It wasn't like a regular activity. In fact, I haven't set foot in PvP in I don't even know how long prior to today. So n'ah. Please stop trying to derail the topic.

Sigh... Damn I hate when people go off topic to justify obvious and blatant bs.

Edit: I hope you get the agrees and awesomes you're fishing for, as most people who post that type of nonsense in my threads tend to get upvoted heavily. Just disappointed that you too joined the bandwagon. Anything for that forum rep and cyber stars, right?

acw37162

The cost reduction CP change is going to hurt heavy armor builds in PVP the most.

They can get the regen through constitution but loosing 20 or 25% cost reduction is going to hurt them.

Smmokkee

Bro.. your resource bars weren't in trouble the whole time either and pretty much every chance you had to burst you missed.

I for sure think there is problems out there with certain things but watching this video I don't really think that's the case.

He beat you and a lot of the more cheesier stuff that people complain about isn't really in this video.

SanderBuraas

You died because of a mistake, but you sustained just as well. You also didn't interrupt his Dark Deal. Not to mention that was on a CP campaign. If you want better PvP, play on Azura's Star.

PvP in ESO is unbalanced, but your video does not demonstrate the main issues.

Deadfinger6

I understood about 20% of that....

Spottswoode

s7732425ub17_ESO wrote: »

Play on a non-CP campaign. It's purely a problem with CP.

Yup.



Unfortunately, CP is the root cause of most of the imbalances we have now and it's getting fixes at an extremely slow rate. At this point, it's almost assuredly going to continuously cause more harm to PVE than it does good for PVP for the forseeable future.

I still stand by my recommendation of campaigns with different CP caps. CP capped gear still gives an advantage over nonvet and low CP characters.

Ch4mpTW

Smepic wrote: »

You died because of a mistake, but you sustained just as well. You also didn't interrupt his Dark Deal. Not to mention that was on a CP campaign. If you want better PvP, play on Azura's Star.

PvP in ESO is unbalanced, but your video does not demonstrate the main issues.

Out of curiosity, how does it not demonstrate the main issues? Lol. The guy isn't an emperor and is sustaining crazy, all the while being effected by a combination of magicka and stamina resource cost poisons. And is being attacked by 2 people (was originally being attacked by multiple). Really though? And his damage output is heavy, and I was using a StamDK at the time with: 5x Reactive, 3x Agility, 1x Maelstrom's Battle Axe, and 1x Maelstrom's Bow. The weapons sharpened, the jewelry robust, and the body pieces impenetrable.

Kay1

So, a DK using sniper and recovery food (Lol) is complaining that he got 1vX'd by a player with the same CP's than him that had the exact same sustain ability ( also using Engine Guardian as a StamDk, like is something that you need lol)

That player just played way better than any of you and he deserve to be that hard to kill, oh and btw he's a sorc, so you're complaining because Dark Deal is too strong?

Have you tried bashing him? "if u bash him he will get immune and restart lol" Wrong, in 3 seconds any good player can smoke a stunned stamsorc so this is definitely a L2P issue OP, when I 1vX on my Stamsorc any group that spam poisons on me, perma bash me or spam cc will kill me, you just played very bad while he kept playing good the whole fight.

Maybe stop playing with 10 more people around you and start playing solo and you will be as good as this guy, until then just complain in the forums and even if this was a fight without CP's, potions and Dark Deal he will still win OP, that's what you need to understand, you didn't even had half of your buffs up for the whole fight and your animation canceling skill is non existant while he was perma healing itself, keeping his buffs up, dodging at the right time and timing his ulti.

EDIT:"5x Reactive, 3x Agility, 1x Maelstrom's Battle Axe, and 1x Maelstrom's Bow. "

You really pretend to kill someone with that? Really? OP in the first place you should've asked for advice for your build.

raidentenshu_ESO

So you're complaining about getting owned in PVP and so now you want to nerf StamSorcs even more.


Wow just WOW! My wood elf Stam sorc would like to have a word with you pal.

Koolio

If I were you I would've just posted your issues and not that video in particular. Mainly because you should be ashamed LOL.

Asgari

You got outplayed.

You chased down one player with others and went in thinking easy kill but instead got packed up and sent home crying to forum.

The reduced cost regen nerf coming is only going to favor bad players like you an the others who chased him down while hurting that guy who outplayed you.

Pathetic how this game is going so easy mode

techprince

Darkdeal and CP both are broken.

Enemy-of-Coldharbour

Watched the video, all I can say is...poor mudcrab didn't see it coming.

Aedaryl

First an heavy armor problem, the consitution passive and the one giving ressources on heavy attacks is overperforming. Insane primery stats sustain + secondary stat sustain.

Then, also, it's can be combine with redguard passive returning stamina every 5s, overperforming too.

=> This make people going heavy armor meaning best resistance and heal receive. But also, 100% damage set possible, cuz hwo care about sustain in heavy ?

Secondly, it's a armor sets problems :

-Medium Best sets can be use on jewlery so you can go 3 jewlery, 1 weapon, 1piece of armor or 2 weapons. You don't sacrifise anything for medium best setsn you still in heavy.

-Heavy sets are most focus also on damage, instead of tanking, making combinaison between medium and heavy best sets.

-Monster sets : he maybe run OP sets like troll king (other op are pirate skeleton, Bloodspawn, ect).

Thirdly

As a stamina character, he can combine best defensive mechanics : not punishing for using his magicka for utility (hello dark deal), he can block (redguard + Constitution + (for dk battle roar) still work while blocking). And also dodge without too much punishement. Stamina also have cheaper skills, better weapon damage (compare to spell damage) and highter damage in general.

In four

Champion system is unbalanced : Roll dodge/break free is the same star, no counter to block, dodge in cps, ect.

In Five

Skills/passive/classe not balanced : this guy can use shuffle in heavy armor, an other way to stack more best defensive abilities.

Iyas

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

You got outplayed.

You chased down one player with others and went in thinking easy kill but instead got packed up and sent home crying to forum.

The reduced cost regen nerf coming is only going to favor bad players like you an the others who chased him down while hurting that guy who outplayed you.

Pathetic how this game is going so easy mode

You need more agrees

Ch4mpTW

Aedaryl wrote: »

First an heavy armor problem, the consitution passive and the one giving ressources on heavy attacks is overperforming. Insane primery stats sustain + secondary stat sustain.

Then, also, it's can be combine with redguard passive returning stamina every 5s, overperforming too.

=> This make people going heavy armor meaning best resistance and heal receive. But also, 100% damage set possible, cuz hwo care about sustain in heavy ?

Secondly, it's a armor sets problems :

-Medium Best sets can be use on jewlery so you can go 3 jewlery, 1 weapon, 1piece of armor or 2 weapons. You don't sacrifise anything for medium best setsn you still in heavy.

-Heavy sets are most focus also on damage, instead of tanking, making combinaison between medium and heavy best sets.

-Monster sets : he maybe run OP sets like troll king (other op are pirate skeleton, Bloodspawn, ect).

Thirdly

As a stamina character, he can combine best defensive mechanics : not punishing for using his magicka for utility (hello dark deal), he can block (redguard + Constitution + (for dk battle roar) still work while blocking). And also dodge without too much punishement. Stamina also have cheaper skills, better weapon damage (compare to spell damage) and highter damage in general.

In four

Champion system is unbalanced : Roll dodge/break free is the same star, no counter to block, dodge in cps, ect.

In Five

Skills/passive/classe not balanced : this guy can use shuffle in heavy armor, an other way to stack more best defensive abilities.

Greatest post I've read on the forums all day, outside of the superb news Gina and Jessica delivered about players being suspended. I'd give you a million agrees if I could. I'm also definitely going to be actively checking for your posts. Keep supplying the truth, comrade. +1

Kay1

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

You got outplayed.

You chased down one player with others and went in thinking easy kill but instead got packed up and sent home crying to forum.

The reduced cost regen nerf coming is only going to favor bad players like you an the others who chased him down while hurting that guy who outplayed you.

Pathetic how this game is going so easy mode

Is not only pathetic but also disgusting.

Kay1

So the OP is going to ignore all the real and honest replies and believe a guy who thinks like him, that he lost because of OP stuff.

If you are from EU I would like to invite you to do a 1v2 without cp and dark deal against me, I would like to see how it ends.

If you're not from EU I'm 100% sure that if you offer that guy a 1v1 or a 1v2 without dark deal and cp he would accept.

leepalmer95

Also,

You simply got outplayed, your basically spammed dizzying and snipe, you never healed or rolled properly when you had like 30% hp.

Your running around in heavy with engine and 30k+ hp.

You didn't bash him once.

You let your buffs drops so much, volatile is 8% dmg reduction and 12% extra healing and shuffle is a very important skill.

You chased down a solo player after attempting to zerg him down with like 7 people, literally got on your horse to chase the guy.

You deserved it to be honest.


Honestly if this game was several patches ago you would of died within 10s because a 30k heavy armor build wouldn't have let you survive for so long.

brandonv516

Go magicka? You play stamina better than me, I would've died much earlier.

Ch4mpTW

Kay1 wrote: »

So the OP is going to ignore all the real and honest reply and believe a guy who thinks like him, that he lost because of OP stuff.

If you are from EU I would like to invite you to do a 1v2 without cp and dark deal against me, I would like to see how it ends.

If you're not from EU I'm 100% sure that if you offer that guy a 1v1 or a 1v2 without dark deal and cp he would accept.

Let's get 1 thing straight. I don't normally PvP nowadays, and I don't follow the meta and trends. Let's get another thing straight. When I was actively PvP'ing, I used a MagDK. I'm far more knowledgeable of MagDK combat, than I am of StamDK combat. They are worlds apart in regards to differences. Although in a PvE environment, I'm pretty damn good with them both. Considering I've got Flawless Conqueror with them both, and have beaten VMoL with them both numerous times. So all that wolfing, and talking about how I'm a garbage player and making all those rude comments...? Keep them to yourself. Because I'm not about to sit here and ego flex with someone who doesn't know a damn thing about me. M'kay?

Also, let's go back on topic. Even if I was as you claimed to be the most "horrible" player and all that. How in the hell does that defend obviously unbalanced design...? How? I don't get it. If something is unbalanced, than it is what it is. Call it for what it is, and nothing else. If it's a CP issue, than call it as such. If it's a gear issue, or a class issue. And so on. Call it as such. But at the end of the day, infinite sustain is a HUGE problem that is killing the game.


... Meanwhile you're claiming doing away with infinite sustain is making the game "easy mode"? So it's "easy mode", when you can't tank and put out high damage at the same time? All the while healing yourself like it's nothing? Lmao. Okay Brodie. Whatever you say.

Yolokin_Swagonborn

To all the people saying he got outplayed, that's true, but you are missing the point. While it is true that he didn't bash dark deal enough or time his burst, that's what's wrong with the current meta. IT'S BORING.

The entire meta of tanking up, getting evasion up, then spamming vigor while flopping around on the ground dodge rolling until someone makes a mistake or you time your burst perfectly is what's wrong with the game.

People can get enough resources and mitigation now that they are un-killable unless you time your burst. But it didn't always work this way.

Before the disgusting champion system and removal of softcaps broke and unbalanced the game, we had a resource management meta. Instead of stacking damage sets and letting CP fill in the gaps of your build, you actually had to build for sustain and use more heavy attacks. Fights were much slower but much more meaningful.

If you didn't manage your resources, you died. Now with CP, power creep, and no softcaps, you don't even have to manage your resources, just mash buttons until your ult is up and you can get that sick combo.

For some people, this type of play is all they have ever experienced in ESO. So of course they are going to argue for the status quo and tell others to "get gud." I wish people realized there was a much more elegant way to play this game and we could get rid of this Call Of Duty, 360 no scope burst garbage that ESO gameplay has devolved to.

P.S. Stam Sorc nerf cry is unneeded here, any class can get enough resources to perma-spam. No more nerfs unless it the Champion system.

br0steen

Your crit rush hit for under 3k and wrecking blow hit for 4k. You are using recovery food AND engine guardian AND you're a DK (passives, dude).

I know you didn't want to hear this, and I don't say it much but this truly is a "learn to play" situation.

You can tell the stam sorc was struggling with his resources towards the end, so your poisons worked, but you did quite a few things wrong. You missed a dawnbreaker, you didn't connect several dizzying swings, you tried reverse slicing while still above 60% health, you clearly have an almost purely sustain build (which is unnecessary right now with how cp is) so your damage is really low, and you simply did not do a good job at trying to set up a burst at all.

As far as "dps" and "rotation" goes, that's not what PvP is.


CP is the cause of the insane power creep that has lots of people complaining right now. You are correct in that it is super easy to sustain with how CP is. Play in non CP for a bit and you will see people having HUGE issues managing resources.



But this.... this is not an excellent example of your point. The game is relatively balanced right now, balanced as in you can be really good on just about any type of character.

No worries though. CP changes are coming. Also heard a rumor PvP might go all no CP. I think that would be awesome, but I know it's probably an unpopular idea.

Anhedonie

L2P is getting old, so what else can I say?

Uuuh...suck my fart?

Ch4mpTW

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

To all the people saying he got outplayed, that's true, but you are missing the point. While it is true that he didn't bash dark deal enough or time his burst, that's what's wrong with the current meta. IT'S BORING.

The entire meta of tanking up, getting evasion up, then spamming vigor while flopping around on the ground dodge rolling until someone makes a mistake or you time your burst perfectly is what's wrong with the game.

People can get enough resources and mitigation now that they are un-killable unless you time your burst. But it didn't always work this way.

Before the disgusting champion system and removal of softcaps broke and unbalanced the game, we had a resource management meta. Instead of stacking damage sets and letting CP fill in the gaps of your build, you actually had to build for sustain and use more heavy attacks. Fights were much slower but much more meaningful.

If you didn't manage your resources, you died. Now with CP, power creep, and no softcaps, you don't even have to manage your resources, just mash buttons until your ult is up and you can get that sick combo.

For some people, this type of play is all they have ever experienced in ESO. So of course they are going to argue for the status quo and tell others to "get gud." I wish people realized there was a much more elegant way to play this game and we could get rid of this Call Of Duty, 360 no scope burst garbage that ESO gameplay has devolved to.

@Yolokin_Swagonborn That's what I'm saying. I agree with you 10 fold. I'll admit, I'm far from an adept at StamDK PvP. And overall, this isn't a PvP issue. And I'm hoping this doesn't get placed in the PvP section, as this wouldn't belong there. It's a sustain problem, meaning it's a global issue. My knowledge on PvP combat with a StamDK is atrocious. As is my performance with 1 in a PvP environment. I get it. And I know I made tons of tons of mistakes. However, I wanted to try something new. As when I did use to PvP frequently, I was on my MagDK.

But all that aside, infinite sustain is a huge problem. And it's not something that is okay. People can pick apart my mistakes all they want, but it's still not going to get away from the fact that infinite sustain has got to go. It's killing the game. It genuinely is.

silky_soft

Pretty sure we see here how much dd is out of tune with the rest of the game and how healing is out of control and needs to be nerfed into the ground.

Cloak has multiple 100% counter, why doesn't dodge/block/heal? Oh that right richard lambert players a block casting bol spamming templar.

Iyas

Oh and btw. There is always the no CP campaign for you if you hate the CP sustain

And dont come with on console no one wants to play azura booohoo crybaby stuff. Populate the no CP Server then with all of your mates who hate CP sustain.


Oh and btw btw no one cares about your pve achievements. Its PvP you were talking about and you are one of these Hardcore chasers (even mounted up wtf) who failed zerging one Guy and then gets killed.

Propably you reported him for cheating because no one should be able to beats you...