Dear non dk tanks, enough about swarm mother

Baconfat79

Rings of Mara for these two, immediately!

Caff32

OP is very concerned about using Pirate Skeleton over Swarm Mother on his nightblade tank. Meanwhile, I'm still trying to figure out why he'd use a nightblade over a DK to tank if he's so concerned with the perfect group setup.

paulsimonps

Orbital wrote: »

So many people talking numbers/
In depth strats about vet dungeons hahah
You can tank every dungeon in the game
In 7light

Swarm mother is terrible
Sentinel gives the team Stam
Warden gives the team resistance
Shadow/chokethorn gives the team more igneous and vigor

Put chains on your bar stop being a noob and learn how to stack fast and efficient

Bye

@Orbital
Like others have pointed out. Did you even read the thread at all? First of all it was about Tanks that were specifically NOT Dragonknights. Second, it later turned into a discussion about the functionality of Swarm Mother to determine how it worked in comparison to unrelenting grip to try and help with the Bugs that are plaguing Unrelenting grip. For non DK tanks swarm mother is really good. And seriously until changes are made I might actually run swarm mother in the room with the grievous twilight's to make that go faster even as a DK.

So please take time to actually read the discussion and perhaps learn a thing or too about the games mechanics and functionality.

WalksonGraves

Caff32 wrote: »

OP is very concerned about using Pirate Skeleton over Swarm Mother on his nightblade tank. Meanwhile, I'm still trying to figure out why he'd use a nightblade over a DK to tank if he's so concerned with the perfect group setup.

Where did I ever say anything about perfect group set ups? I'm not a dk because nbs have better passives for my build. Unless you have something relevant to add quit trying to chime in on someone else's week old argument.

actosh

paulsimonps wrote: »

Autolycus wrote: »

@paulsimonps @Magdalina

I agree, it certainly does seem to be over performing. Interesting news about the Watchers... I'll pay closer attention to it next time I'm in there.

I ran vWGT again tonight and played around with the Crematorial Guards a little more. Not only does the fire breath attack proc SM and pull them if standing >5m away, so does their bite attack. It seems to have a longer melee range, as I was still pulling him from ~7-8m, and I'm positive it was the bite.

But here's the really interesting one: You know that titan right before the Planar Inhibitor? He can be pulled as well, not just at the beginning, but from what appears to be any of his ranged attacks throughout the encounter.

Yea I did vWGT too and yeap, Titan, Crematorial Guardians and Grievous Twilights can all be chained with swarm mother but not with Unrelenting Grip. Also I did the DK chains on the first boss before she goes down the stairs its a lot of fun to see that and the titan fly across the rooms

Can anyone help me figure out other dungeons with Mobs with ranged attacks that are CC immune? I want to test on more things. Actually did a Normal Maw to test the mobs there, doesn't work there, which is good, would be broken OP in trash pulls otherwise.

In maw u can pull the adds on the second boss with swarm mother.
The light and dark adds. Havent testet it with the archer trash mobs.

paulsimonps

actosh wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

Autolycus wrote: »

@paulsimonps @Magdalina

I agree, it certainly does seem to be over performing. Interesting news about the Watchers... I'll pay closer attention to it next time I'm in there.

I ran vWGT again tonight and played around with the Crematorial Guards a little more. Not only does the fire breath attack proc SM and pull them if standing >5m away, so does their bite attack. It seems to have a longer melee range, as I was still pulling him from ~7-8m, and I'm positive it was the bite.

But here's the really interesting one: You know that titan right before the Planar Inhibitor? He can be pulled as well, not just at the beginning, but from what appears to be any of his ranged attacks throughout the encounter.

Yea I did vWGT too and yeap, Titan, Crematorial Guardians and Grievous Twilights can all be chained with swarm mother but not with Unrelenting Grip. Also I did the DK chains on the first boss before she goes down the stairs its a lot of fun to see that and the titan fly across the rooms

Can anyone help me figure out other dungeons with Mobs with ranged attacks that are CC immune? I want to test on more things. Actually did a Normal Maw to test the mobs there, doesn't work there, which is good, would be broken OP in trash pulls otherwise.

In maw u can pull the adds on the second boss with swarm mother.
The light and dark adds. Havent testet it with the archer trash mobs.

I specifically said mobs that we know are CC immune, so in maw I was referring to the trash pulls. We all know the Twin's has adds that can be chained, its how most people deal with them, actually I don't know of any group that doesn't chain them.

Flameheart

WalksonGraves wrote: »

Btw Pirate is by far the best choice for tanks. It's pretty obvious I don't get why the forums are so slow to realize.

Huh ?

Rev Rielle wrote: »

When the set is used well, it really is poetry in motion. As a healer and damage-dealer, I love it when a tank has, and knows how to use, this set in battle. It's simply brilliant.

This.

I am able to play all my 4 magicka classes as tanks. As my DK has chains and does not really need Swarm Mother (although I don't find it a mistake to use it at least on trash nevertheless, it saves resources and works reliable while chains are bugged sometimes and even on mobs where chains do not work), I use it for trash and bosses with adds on my Sorc, my Templar and my NB. A good group (aka not bad PUGs where people aren't able to do good dps, especially AoE dps, because slotting AoE damage skills seems to cause cancer...) will be absolutely thankful for the effect of Swarm Mother, drawing all mobs together so that it is possible to apply AoE to ALL mobs. There is no running around, no wasted ground dots and focused healing possible with Combat Prayer and Healing Springs etc.

...and yes, taking aggro - especially initial aggro (NB -> path/Sap Essence, Templar -> Ritual/Spears, Sorc -> Liquid Lightning/Streak, or just slot Caltrops) is enough to trigger the effect. For mobs farer away just use your Undaunted taunt on your second bar. As a magicka tank I have usually 28k+ magicka and around 1400 magicka reg, so no issue at all.

For solo boss fights just change to Bloodspawn or Warden or what else is useful for a special encounter, main thing is that it will support not just you, but the group.

Autolycus

Orbital wrote: »

So many people talking numbers/
In depth strats about vet dungeons hahah
You can tank every dungeon in the game
In 7light

Swarm mother is terrible
Sentinel gives the team Stam
Warden gives the team resistance
Shadow/chokethorn gives the team more igneous and vigor

Put chains on your bar stop being a noob and learn how to stack fast and efficient

Bye

*yawn*

I can tank every dungeon in this game naked.
No you're terrible. Since I said it, it must be true right?
We already mentioned Sentinel.
We already mentioned Warden.
We already mentioned Shadow/Choke

Learn to read because this thread is about non-DK tanks stop being lazy and arrogant

Bye

WalksonGraves

Autolycus wrote: »

Orbital wrote: »

So many people talking numbers/
In depth strats about vet dungeons hahah
You can tank every dungeon in the game
In 7light

Swarm mother is terrible
Sentinel gives the team Stam
Warden gives the team resistance
Shadow/chokethorn gives the team more igneous and vigor

Put chains on your bar stop being a noob and learn how to stack fast and efficient

Bye

*yawn*

I can tank every dungeon in this game naked.
You're terrible.
We already mentioned Sentinel.
We already mentioned Warden.
We already mentioned Shadow/Choke

Learn to read because this thread is about non-DK tanks stop being lazy and arrogant

Bye

Would you mind starting a thread about SM mechanics so this doesn't keep getting dredged up?

Autolycus

WalksonGraves wrote: »

Autolycus wrote: »

Orbital wrote: »

So many people talking numbers/
In depth strats about vet dungeons hahah
You can tank every dungeon in the game
In 7light

Swarm mother is terrible
Sentinel gives the team Stam
Warden gives the team resistance
Shadow/chokethorn gives the team more igneous and vigor

Put chains on your bar stop being a noob and learn how to stack fast and efficient

Bye

*yawn*

I can tank every dungeon in this game naked.
You're terrible.
We already mentioned Sentinel.
We already mentioned Warden.
We already mentioned Shadow/Choke

Learn to read because this thread is about non-DK tanks stop being lazy and arrogant

Bye

Would you mind starting a thread about SM mechanics so this doesn't keep getting dredged up?

Yeah it's probably a good idea to do so... when I resurrected this thread to mention the mechanics of Swarm Mother I didn't mean for people to dwell on the points that have already been put to rest. Sorry, I'll add one in the Combat section.

elijafire

WalksonGraves wrote: »

It's beyond crap. So normally a dk sees a ranged mob, pulls it in to the murder blender. Takes a second, uses on slot on the skillbar.
You never need to do this, it's just a minor convenience. Shaves maybe 20 seconds off a run.


Then you have swarm mother, which is like a much ****tier version. First you need to range taunt (either more expensive than chains for half the effect or 3 second hvy attack wind up) then the enemy's projectile has to hit you while you're blocking. This is about 5-9 seconds, longer if you are taunting multiples.

By the time you did all that, you could have walked there and asked nicely.

You might as well run no gear at all.
Better alternatives for nb? Teleport strike.

Love it.

Stinkyremy

elijafire wrote: »

WalksonGraves wrote: »

It's beyond crap. So normally a dk sees a ranged mob, pulls it in to the murder blender. Takes a second, uses on slot on the skillbar.
You never need to do this, it's just a minor convenience. Shaves maybe 20 seconds off a run.


Then you have swarm mother, which is like a much ****tier version. First you need to range taunt (either more expensive than chains for half the effect or 3 second hvy attack wind up) then the enemy's projectile has to hit you while you're blocking. This is about 5-9 seconds, longer if you are taunting multiples.

By the time you did all that, you could have walked there and asked nicely.

You might as well run no gear at all.
Better alternatives for nb? Teleport strike.

Love it.

bit of thread necroing there.
I like the set too, It is great, perfect for stam tanking and great fro certain dungeons like selenes web. plus it procs off of the 1h and shield ult.
Good in aduel as well as it is undogeable.

SquareSausage

Isnt silver leash getting changed to pull enemies to you in summerset? allowing non dk tanks to have chains?

MattT1988

elijafire wrote: »

WalksonGraves wrote: »

It's beyond crap. So normally a dk sees a ranged mob, pulls it in to the murder blender. Takes a second, uses on slot on the skillbar.
You never need to do this, it's just a minor convenience. Shaves maybe 20 seconds off a run.


Then you have swarm mother, which is like a much ****tier version. First you need to range taunt (either more expensive than chains for half the effect or 3 second hvy attack wind up) then the enemy's projectile has to hit you while you're blocking. This is about 5-9 seconds, longer if you are taunting multiples.

By the time you did all that, you could have walked there and asked nicely.

You might as well run no gear at all.
Better alternatives for nb? Teleport strike.

Love it.

This thread is a year old. Why’d you necro it?

Yolokin_Swagonborn

SquareSausage wrote: »

Isnt silver leash getting changed to pull enemies to you in summerset? allowing non dk tanks to have chains?

Yes. ZOS's continued homogenization of the classes renders this whole thread pointless. Next patch everyone will be able to chain pull.

I shudder to think of what that will look like in PvP.

_Salty_

Op is famous for making crazy claims about trash sets being good and good sets being trash and when confronted by facts usually becomes hostile and combative.

D0PAMINE

Im actually glad this thread was necro'd.

1. It was entertaining

2. Gave me insight on Swarm Mother that I was ignorant about.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

SquareSausage wrote: »

Isnt silver leash getting changed to pull enemies to you in summerset? allowing non dk tanks to have chains?

Yes. ZOS's continued homogenization of the classes renders this whole thread pointless. Next patch everyone will be able to chain pull.

I shudder to think of what that will look like in PvP.

Silver leash cost ~3k stam, isn't that a big no no in PVP? And a bad thing in pve for tanks as well, cause they need that for blocking? Making dk chains still top dog?

Sparr0w

WalksonGraves wrote: »

Dantaria wrote: »

WalksonGraves wrote: »

OutLaw_Nynx wrote: »

Put up a video of you doing a hm trial with this set up.

I will when I have one. You have to have no life to have enough free time to organize that many people for a multi hour dungeon. That and there is no reason since there are no sets I want, only thing left to get is the veli skin my build is already at it's peak.

Multi hour dungeon?! Multi hour...

Ok, I see. I see

That's what the vmol guides say...

Just saying, with a progression group (many first time running) we did this in under 2 hours...

Raraaku

This will probably change with the new change of silver leash in the Summerset patch. Non-DK tanks will now be able to pull enemies as well. Might even be more popular since it will be stamina based.

Yolokin_Swagonborn

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

SquareSausage wrote: »

Isnt silver leash getting changed to pull enemies to you in summerset? allowing non dk tanks to have chains?

Yes. ZOS's continued homogenization of the classes renders this whole thread pointless. Next patch everyone will be able to chain pull.

I shudder to think of what that will look like in PvP.

Silver leash cost ~3k stam, isn't that a big no no in PVP? And a bad thing in pve for tanks as well, cause they need that for blocking? Making dk chains still top dog?

3k stam is nothing to an entire zerg of people spamming it on solo players.

josiahva

paulsimonps wrote: »

WalksonGraves wrote: »

It's beyond crap. So normally a dk sees a ranged mob, pulls it in to the murder blender. Takes a second, uses on slot on the skillbar.
You never need to do this, it's just a minor convenience. Shaves maybe 20 seconds off a run.


Then you have swarm mother, which is like a much ****tier version. First you need to range taunt (either more expensive than chains for half the effect or 3 second hvy attack wind up) then the enemy's projectile has to hit you while you're blocking. This is about 5-9 seconds, longer if you are taunting multiples.

By the time you did all that, you could have walked there and asked nicely.

You might as well run no gear at all.
Better alternatives for nb? Teleport strike.

Its not beyond crap. I find it really help full. It has its uses. And thing is, what else would you use? Bloodspawn? Overrated, Lord Warden? unnecessary in dungeons. Tanks don't have a lot of good options for Monster helmets in my opinion so its not like you are losing something super vital by running swarm mother as a non DK. And the ranged taunt isn't that much more expensive, you range taunt a few ranged mobs, the groups stacks on one of them and the melee mobs will flock to them and then the swarm mother does it work over time and the tank can make sure to get melee taunt on the melee mobs to make sure less group members gets hurt. Its not a bad set up. Non DK tanks are at a disadvantage and this helps to close the gap(get it? ;P)

Believe it or not, even on my DK tank I usually run Chudan. Yes, I know I could just slot hardened armor and have the same effect....however, Chudan provides this passively without me having to waste a slot, or more importantly, the resources to maintain it, which means I can cast more igneous shields for the group, or more chains, etc. The only better monster set for a tank is probably Blood Spawn, but I still prefer Chudan because unlike 99.9% of the monster sets out there, its NOT a proc set, there is no RNG involved, its just there.

As for Swarm Mother, with the release of Summerset it will be total crap(even if it wasn't before) with the changes to silver leash so its kinda a moot point.