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Dear non dk tanks, enough about swarm mother
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Rev Rielle✭✭✭✭✭
✭When the set is used well, it really is poetry in motion. As a healer and damage-dealer, I love it when a tank has, and knows how to use, this set in battle. It's simply brilliant.If you can be anything, be kind.1 -
raj72616a✭✭✭✭✭paulsimonps wrote: »WalksonGraves wrote: »paulsimonps wrote: »WalksonGraves wrote: »Well that explains it, you don't understand the difference between adding and multiplying percentages. 20% more block doesn't mean 20% mitigation it means 10%. The more important difference is I maintain close to blocking levels of dr when I'm not blocking.
Ahhh you are funny. The 20% from Sword and Board passive is only 10% extra mitigation if you only have that and blocking. Heard of diminishing returns? Say I did all my calculations with and then without it then the added mitigation to my total would be way less than 20% obviously. That's why that 30% that I showed you on my calculation turned out to be 2.4% added to the grand total of mitigation. And ok lets see how much a set up like that would get without blocking:
100*(1-0.5*0.7*0.7*0.75*0.85*0.92)=85.63075
But that is only when its proc'ed, when its not its:
100*(1-0.5*0.7*0.75*0.85*0.92)=79.4725
But since most people don't use Circle of Protection lets make it:
100*(1-0.5*0.7*0.75*0.85)=77.6875
That's not really all that impressive, there are more ways to get much higher than that and more consistently. Still don't want to lose that 15% healing received during a fight like the warrior. And in Dungeons you don't even need any of that to tank them, its not an issue at all.
You really think 15% healing is more than 30% of a trials boss heavy attack? I doubt it.
Im an argonian nb so I'm already peak healing taken/received. That and I run major healing/lingering pots.
Yea but as I have explain that "30%" is fricking nothing on a fully spec'ed tank. It adds only 2.4% to your total damage mitigation. I want those heals to count, and I want to make the most of it. 15% is 15%. That 30% is only 2.4%
why does nobody explain to you that, it isnt your damage mitigation going from 92% to 94.4%.
actually to your number,
it is actually damage received going from 8% to 5.6%.
if the boss unmitigated damage was to be 50k, the mitigated damage will be going to 4000 to 2800.
that is not a 2.4% difference.1 -
brandonv516✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭WalksonGraves wrote: »It's beyond crap. So normally a dk sees a ranged mob, pulls it in to the murder blender. Takes a second, uses on slot on the skillbar.
You never need to do this, it's just a minor convenience. Shaves maybe 20 seconds off a run.
Then you have swarm mother, which is like a much ****tier version. First you need to range taunt (either more expensive than chains for half the effect or 3 second hvy attack wind up) then the enemy's projectile has to hit you while you're blocking. This is about 5-9 seconds, longer if you are taunting multiples.
By the time you did all that, you could have walked there and asked nicely.
You might as well run no gear at all.
Better alternatives for nb? Teleport strike.
I prefer sentinel.0 -
WalksonGraves✭✭✭✭✭
✭brandonv516 wrote: »WalksonGraves wrote: »It's beyond crap. So normally a dk sees a ranged mob, pulls it in to the murder blender. Takes a second, uses on slot on the skillbar.
You never need to do this, it's just a minor convenience. Shaves maybe 20 seconds off a run.
Then you have swarm mother, which is like a much ****tier version. First you need to range taunt (either more expensive than chains for half the effect or 3 second hvy attack wind up) then the enemy's projectile has to hit you while you're blocking. This is about 5-9 seconds, longer if you are taunting multiples.
By the time you did all that, you could have walked there and asked nicely.
You might as well run no gear at all.
Better alternatives for nb? Teleport strike.
I prefer sentinel.
I've used sentinel, it's great. If I was using refreshing path I'd use it, I just don't heal often enough to proc it consistently.0 -
WalksonGraves✭✭✭✭✭
✭DocFrost72 wrote: »WalksonGraves wrote: »WalksonGraves wrote: »Lol @ you guys perma blocking, crawling around the boss fight scared to let go of left trigger. I only block heavy attacks because I'm a real tank and can take damage, the fact you need to block speaks volumes. You can't even imagine weaving, that 1 second of no defense scares you.
We don't need to weave because we can sustain our permablock. We permablock so we can run more support sets for our group. We run more supportive sets because that's how you get higher scores in raids...
I do not run pirate skeleton because I don't need the mitigation because I can block. I run warden to help my melee stack.
I run ebon to give my group more survivability. I don't run reactive because why would I be cc'd?
I run alkosh to give my group more damage. I don't run lekis because.. I don't even know why I would ever use that.
GROUP. GROUP.
Once more.
SUPPORT THE DAMN GROUP
Ebon adds less than 100 damage per player, it's trash to support paper thin dps. Garbage.
Reactive triggers when I get hit by any cc and lasts a few seconds, this means unblockable boss grabs, knockback, fear, stuns from adds all trigger it and make me nearly invincible.
Leki affects aoe, which happens to include any telegraphed conical attack or fire field or burst aoe which is more than half of boss attacks. I also don't run aoe heals and the one aoe damage ability is already uselessly low dmg to begin with.
Last I heard alkosh conflicts with other buffs, either way a dps can run it if they want more dmg, my job is survival.
Fyi I support the group more just by running guard, in a 4 man that 10% crit adds up to more than all the warhorns you can muster.
Ebon does not split the health given. It gives some 1k+ health to 12 people, for a possible total well over 12k.
Leki's explicitly states in the description it only works on players' attacks, not monsters attacks.
You trollin', m8?
That got changed pretty early in development. It's usually a pretty big hint a set is op if it was the only one considered too good for pve.0 -
hmsdragonfly✭✭✭✭✭
✭WalksonGraves wrote: »brandonv516 wrote: »WalksonGraves wrote: »It's beyond crap. So normally a dk sees a ranged mob, pulls it in to the murder blender. Takes a second, uses on slot on the skillbar.
You never need to do this, it's just a minor convenience. Shaves maybe 20 seconds off a run.
Then you have swarm mother, which is like a much ****tier version. First you need to range taunt (either more expensive than chains for half the effect or 3 second hvy attack wind up) then the enemy's projectile has to hit you while you're blocking. This is about 5-9 seconds, longer if you are taunting multiples.
By the time you did all that, you could have walked there and asked nicely.
You might as well run no gear at all.
Better alternatives for nb? Teleport strike.
I prefer sentinel.
I've used sentinel, it's great. If I was using refreshing path I'd use it, I just don't heal often enough to proc it consistently.
Dude, just show us your achievement of tanking vMoL HM successfully with pirate skeleton or whatever you use. We will shut up by then.Aldmeri Dominion Loyalist. For the Queen!2 -
WalksonGraves✭✭✭✭✭
✭hmsdragonfly wrote: »WalksonGraves wrote: »brandonv516 wrote: »WalksonGraves wrote: »It's beyond crap. So normally a dk sees a ranged mob, pulls it in to the murder blender. Takes a second, uses on slot on the skillbar.
You never need to do this, it's just a minor convenience. Shaves maybe 20 seconds off a run.
Then you have swarm mother, which is like a much ****tier version. First you need to range taunt (either more expensive than chains for half the effect or 3 second hvy attack wind up) then the enemy's projectile has to hit you while you're blocking. This is about 5-9 seconds, longer if you are taunting multiples.
By the time you did all that, you could have walked there and asked nicely.
You might as well run no gear at all.
Better alternatives for nb? Teleport strike.
I prefer sentinel.
I've used sentinel, it's great. If I was using refreshing path I'd use it, I just don't heal often enough to proc it consistently.
Dude, just show us your achievement of tanking vMoL HM successfully with pirate skeleton or whatever you use. We will shut up by then.
Show me a player doing that with swarm mother1 -
xeNNNNN✭✭✭✭✭
✭hmsdragonfly wrote: »WalksonGraves wrote: »You missed my point, pulling mobs is never necessary and sacrificing a monster helm to do so is ridiculous. Btw Pirate is by far the best choice for tanks. It's pretty obvious I don't get why the forums are so slow to realize.
Umm nope. That's a terrible idea. Healing received is extremely important for a tank, both PvE and PvP.
That depends on a few things actually;
The type of tank.
The resistance and build of the tank.
And whether or not its for trials or dungeons. Obviously its a terrible choice for trials especially something like maw. I would love to see someone tank rhakkats gattling gun at some point with pirate skeleton should be funny or ill eat my own words.Edited by xeNNNNN on April 2, 2017 11:59PMAh, e-communities - the "pinnacle" of the internet............yeah, right.0 -
Gilliamtherogue✭✭✭✭✭
✭WalksonGraves wrote: »You missed my point, pulling mobs is never necessary and sacrificing a monster helm to do so is ridiculous. Btw Pirate is by far the best choice for tanks. It's pretty obvious I don't get why the forums are so slow to realize.
Are we playing the same game?Old member of The Order of Mundus, Mostly Harmless, Hostile, and Genesis Elite. Avid theorycrafter. Herald to competitive stamina DPS pre 1.5. How far we've come!
Have questions? Send me a message on the forums or my other social media. Seeing people learn is my dream and passion.
Guides and other fun videos at https://youtube.com/c/gilliamtherogue19 -
hmsdragonfly✭✭✭✭✭
✭WalksonGraves wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »WalksonGraves wrote: »brandonv516 wrote: »WalksonGraves wrote: »It's beyond crap. So normally a dk sees a ranged mob, pulls it in to the murder blender. Takes a second, uses on slot on the skillbar.
You never need to do this, it's just a minor convenience. Shaves maybe 20 seconds off a run.
Then you have swarm mother, which is like a much ****tier version. First you need to range taunt (either more expensive than chains for half the effect or 3 second hvy attack wind up) then the enemy's projectile has to hit you while you're blocking. This is about 5-9 seconds, longer if you are taunting multiples.
By the time you did all that, you could have walked there and asked nicely.
You might as well run no gear at all.
Better alternatives for nb? Teleport strike.
I prefer sentinel.
I've used sentinel, it's great. If I was using refreshing path I'd use it, I just don't heal often enough to proc it consistently.
Dude, just show us your achievement of tanking vMoL HM successfully with pirate skeleton or whatever you use. We will shut up by then.
Show me a player doing that with swarm mother
Who said anything about using swarm mother in vet trial?
But you said "You really think 15% healing is more than 30% of a trials boss heavy attack? I doubt it." and "Pirate is by far the best choice for tanks."
So yeah, show us your achievement of tanking vMoL HM successfully with pirate skeleton or whatever you use. We will shut up by then.Edited by hmsdragonfly on April 3, 2017 12:19AMAldmeri Dominion Loyalist. For the Queen!6 -
hmsdragonfly✭✭✭✭✭
✭hmsdragonfly wrote: »WalksonGraves wrote: »You missed my point, pulling mobs is never necessary and sacrificing a monster helm to do so is ridiculous. Btw Pirate is by far the best choice for tanks. It's pretty obvious I don't get why the forums are so slow to realize.
Umm nope. That's a terrible idea. Healing received is extremely important for a tank, both PvE and PvP.
That depends on a few things actually;
The type of tank.
The resistance and build of the tank.
And whether or not its for trials or dungeons. Obviously its a terrible choice for trials especially something like maw. I would love to see someone tank rhakkats gattling gun at some point with pirate skeleton should be funny or ill eat my own words.
I agree, but you can tank vet dungeons with tremorscale or even without any monster set, So we can make pirate skeleton work in vet dungeons, but i don't think it will change the fact that pirate is a bad set for tanking.Aldmeri Dominion Loyalist. For the Queen!7 -
WalksonGraves✭✭✭✭✭
✭hmsdragonfly wrote: »WalksonGraves wrote: »You missed my point, pulling mobs is never necessary and sacrificing a monster helm to do so is ridiculous. Btw Pirate is by far the best choice for tanks. It's pretty obvious I don't get why the forums are so slow to realize.
Umm nope. That's a terrible idea. Healing received is extremely important for a tank, both PvE and PvP.
That depends on a few things actually;
The type of tank.
The resistance and build of the tank.
And whether or not its for trials or dungeons. Obviously its a terrible choice for trials especially something like maw. I would love to see someone tank rhakkats gattling gun at some point with pirate skeleton should be funny or ill eat my own words.
I'd love to see it too but getting a full run of people to do it is beyond video games and into "this is now a job".hmsdragonfly wrote: »WalksonGraves wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »WalksonGraves wrote: »brandonv516 wrote: »WalksonGraves wrote: »It's beyond crap. So normally a dk sees a ranged mob, pulls it in to the murder blender. Takes a second, uses on slot on the skillbar.
You never need to do this, it's just a minor convenience. Shaves maybe 20 seconds off a run.
Then you have swarm mother, which is like a much ****tier version. First you need to range taunt (either more expensive than chains for half the effect or 3 second hvy attack wind up) then the enemy's projectile has to hit you while you're blocking. This is about 5-9 seconds, longer if you are taunting multiples.
By the time you did all that, you could have walked there and asked nicely.
You might as well run no gear at all.
Better alternatives for nb? Teleport strike.
I prefer sentinel.
I've used sentinel, it's great. If I was using refreshing path I'd use it, I just don't heal often enough to proc it consistently.
Dude, just show us your achievement of tanking vMoL HM successfully with pirate skeleton or whatever you use. We will shut up by then.
Show me a player doing that with swarm mother
Who said anything about using swarm mother in vet trial?
But you said "You really think 15% healing is more than 30% of a trials boss heavy attack? I doubt it.".
So yeah, show us your achievement of tanking vMoL HM successfully with pirate skeleton or whatever you use. We will shut up by then.
Listen, you can do whatever you want. I honestly don't care how badly you tank because I'll never have to find out.0 -
xeNNNNN✭✭✭✭✭
✭hmsdragonfly wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »WalksonGraves wrote: »You missed my point, pulling mobs is never necessary and sacrificing a monster helm to do so is ridiculous. Btw Pirate is by far the best choice for tanks. It's pretty obvious I don't get why the forums are so slow to realize.
Umm nope. That's a terrible idea. Healing received is extremely important for a tank, both PvE and PvP.
That depends on a few things actually;
The type of tank.
The resistance and build of the tank.
And whether or not its for trials or dungeons. Obviously its a terrible choice for trials especially something like maw. I would love to see someone tank rhakkats gattling gun at some point with pirate skeleton should be funny or ill eat my own words.
I agree, but you can tank vet dungeons with tremorscale or even without any monster set, So we can make pirate skeleton work in vet dungeons, but i don't think it will change the fact that pirate is a bad set for tanking.
Thats fair, I mean the dungeons generally are easy enough I mean if you're the tank though in something like HM RoM or HM CoS you'd probably just want to run blood spawn purely for the increase in resistance and ult gen though. I mean Okay you "could" do those dungeons with Tremor but idk, feels more like an off tank set up than a true tank. That said, I have seen many very good off tank builds running those dungeons and infact in cases of maw some very good ones there as well.
Idk I guess its my preception of tanking really. Hell in those dungeons you can run alkosh + Tremor + powerful assault and it would probably work if your group played around your setup lol I would be interested to see and videos of tanks running that in dungeons actually. I think some people have tried it in maw however.Edited by xeNNNNN on April 3, 2017 12:23AMAh, e-communities - the "pinnacle" of the internet............yeah, right.0 -
hmsdragonfly✭✭✭✭✭
✭WalksonGraves wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »WalksonGraves wrote: »You missed my point, pulling mobs is never necessary and sacrificing a monster helm to do so is ridiculous. Btw Pirate is by far the best choice for tanks. It's pretty obvious I don't get why the forums are so slow to realize.
Umm nope. That's a terrible idea. Healing received is extremely important for a tank, both PvE and PvP.
That depends on a few things actually;
The type of tank.
The resistance and build of the tank.
And whether or not its for trials or dungeons. Obviously its a terrible choice for trials especially something like maw. I would love to see someone tank rhakkats gattling gun at some point with pirate skeleton should be funny or ill eat my own words.
I'd love to see it too but getting a full run of people to do it is beyond video games and into "this is now a job".hmsdragonfly wrote: »WalksonGraves wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »WalksonGraves wrote: »brandonv516 wrote: »WalksonGraves wrote: »It's beyond crap. So normally a dk sees a ranged mob, pulls it in to the murder blender. Takes a second, uses on slot on the skillbar.
You never need to do this, it's just a minor convenience. Shaves maybe 20 seconds off a run.
Then you have swarm mother, which is like a much ****tier version. First you need to range taunt (either more expensive than chains for half the effect or 3 second hvy attack wind up) then the enemy's projectile has to hit you while you're blocking. This is about 5-9 seconds, longer if you are taunting multiples.
By the time you did all that, you could have walked there and asked nicely.
You might as well run no gear at all.
Better alternatives for nb? Teleport strike.
I prefer sentinel.
I've used sentinel, it's great. If I was using refreshing path I'd use it, I just don't heal often enough to proc it consistently.
Dude, just show us your achievement of tanking vMoL HM successfully with pirate skeleton or whatever you use. We will shut up by then.
Show me a player doing that with swarm mother
Who said anything about using swarm mother in vet trial?
But you said "You really think 15% healing is more than 30% of a trials boss heavy attack? I doubt it.".
So yeah, show us your achievement of tanking vMoL HM successfully with pirate skeleton or whatever you use. We will shut up by then.
Listen, you can do whatever you want. I honestly don't care how badly you tank because I'll never have to find out.
Listen, simple question, yes or no: Have you ever tanked vMoL HM successfully with Pirate skeleton or whatever you use?
Yes, no?
I take silence or the absence of a direct yes/no answer as a No.
Edited by hmsdragonfly on April 3, 2017 12:23AMAldmeri Dominion Loyalist. For the Queen!8 -
SienneYviete✭✭✭✭✭
✭Was going to reply rationally to the op but instead I chose to go kick a puppy thanks a lot op, thanks a lot.Delta
Valheru's7 -
DocFrost72✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭paulsimonps wrote: »DocFrost72 wrote: »WalksonGraves wrote: »WalksonGraves wrote: »Lol @ you guys perma blocking, crawling around the boss fight scared to let go of left trigger. I only block heavy attacks because I'm a real tank and can take damage, the fact you need to block speaks volumes. You can't even imagine weaving, that 1 second of no defense scares you.
We don't need to weave because we can sustain our permablock. We permablock so we can run more support sets for our group. We run more supportive sets because that's how you get higher scores in raids...
I do not run pirate skeleton because I don't need the mitigation because I can block. I run warden to help my melee stack.
I run ebon to give my group more survivability. I don't run reactive because why would I be cc'd?
I run alkosh to give my group more damage. I don't run lekis because.. I don't even know why I would ever use that.
GROUP. GROUP.
Once more.
SUPPORT THE DAMN GROUP
Ebon adds less than 100 damage per player, it's trash to support paper thin dps. Garbage.
Reactive triggers when I get hit by any cc and lasts a few seconds, this means unblockable boss grabs, knockback, fear, stuns from adds all trigger it and make me nearly invincible.
Leki affects aoe, which happens to include any telegraphed conical attack or fire field or burst aoe which is more than half of boss attacks. I also don't run aoe heals and the one aoe damage ability is already uselessly low dmg to begin with.
Last I heard alkosh conflicts with other buffs, either way a dps can run it if they want more dmg, my job is survival.
Fyi I support the group more just by running guard, in a 4 man that 10% crit adds up to more than all the warhorns you can muster.
Ebon does not split the health given. It gives some 1k+ health to 12 people, for a possible total well over 12k.
Leki's explicitly states in the description it only works on players' attacks, not monsters attacks.
You trollin', m8?
No it actually doesn't.
Now THAT is interesting, because my phone app still has it listed as player damage only. Apologies, I was wrong about Leki's.
Now, graves, will you admit you were wrong about Paul's mitigation numbers, ebon's function, the necessity (albeit limited) for swarm mother, and not needing to support the group any other way than being unkillable?Edited by DocFrost72 on April 3, 2017 4:37AM3 -
Baconfat79✭✭✭✭WalksonGraves wrote: »backbar frost staff dingus. Fyi light and heavy attacks get you ult and resources you might give it a try.
Hahahahahahaha! This guy is CLUELESS. Backbar a frost staff and wind up heavy attacks against a vet trial boss. See how long you live.
1 -
Gaggin✭✭✭✭It is not enough to chain adds in. A tank also has to taunt. This is where swarm mother is beautiful even on a dk tank. You run in and melee taunt an add and then range taunt the far adds to pull them in quick, the cooldown is 2sec and you never have to rechain cus of cc immunity. It's particularly awesome in vdsa where you gotta grab those pesky mages that can 1-2 shot a dps.
I think OP is one of those dk tanks who KNOWs that chains are the only thing dks got goin special for them and now sees this uniqueness being threatened by a monster helm set. Gee some people are so insecure.1 -
EldritchPenguin✭✭✭✭✭
That's not entirely true. DKs also have phenomenal crowd control, which has fantastic synergy with Chains. They also have Battle Roar, giving them more benefit from ultimate-based builds than any other class, while having more than enough ultimate generation for Trials (since Trial Warhorn rotations don't need the extra generation that you could squeeze out of, say, a NB tank).It is not enough to chain adds in. A tank also has to taunt. This is where swarm mother is beautiful even on a dk tank. You run in and melee taunt an add and then range taunt the far adds to pull them in quick, the cooldown is 2sec and you never have to rechain cus of cc immunity. It's particularly awesome in vdsa where you gotta grab those pesky mages that can 1-2 shot a dps.
I think OP is one of those dk tanks who KNOWs that chains are the only thing dks got goin special for them and now sees this uniqueness being threatened by a monster helm set. Gee some people are so insecure.
It's really the combination of Chains, Talons, and Battle Roar that makes DK tanks meta. It's good that the devs introduced Swarm Mother and Frost Staff tanking to help bridge the gap between DK tanks and every other tank, but the simple fact that DKs can double-bar S&B and wear Blood Spawn without sacrificing their ability to chain and lock down adds will mean that they will remain meta for the foreseeable future.Edited by EldritchPenguin on April 3, 2017 5:18AMLilelle Adlis - Dark Elf Dragonknight
Vaynothah Sailenar - Dark Elf Templar
Sherivah Telvanni - Dark Elf Sorcerer
Nephiah Telvanni - Dark Elf Nightblade7 -
IronCrystal✭✭✭✭✭
✭EldritchPenguin wrote: »
That's not entirely true. DKs also have phenomenal crowd control, which has fantastic synergy with Chains. They also have Battle Roar, giving them more benefit from ultimate-based builds than any other class, while having more than enough ultimate generation for Trials (since Trial Warhorn rotations don't need the extra generation that you could squeeze out of, say, a NB tank).It is not enough to chain adds in. A tank also has to taunt. This is where swarm mother is beautiful even on a dk tank. You run in and melee taunt an add and then range taunt the far adds to pull them in quick, the cooldown is 2sec and you never have to rechain cus of cc immunity. It's particularly awesome in vdsa where you gotta grab those pesky mages that can 1-2 shot a dps.
I think OP is one of those dk tanks who KNOWs that chains are the only thing dks got goin special for them and now sees this uniqueness being threatened by a monster helm set. Gee some people are so insecure.
It's really the combination of Chains, Talons, and Battle Roar that makes DK tanks meta. It's good that the devs introduced Swarm Mother and Frost Staff tanking to help bridge the gap between DK tanks and every other tank, but the simple fact that DKs can double-bar S&B and wear Blood Spawn without sacrificing their ability to chain and lock down adds will mean that they will remain meta for the foreseeable future.
Don't forget Helping Hands where you gain stamina by using igneous shield while blocking, in addition to the fact it gives major mending for big vigor self-heals along with melee dps heals.Make PC NA raiding great again!
Down with drama!
What Mechanics Healer - Dro-m'Athra Destroyer
Homestead Raid Scores
vHRC 157,030
vAA 138,287
vSO 153,393
vMoL 154,550
Not raiding in Morrowind5 -
Magdalina✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Hahahahaha. Oh my god, OP, are you...for real? Becase if you're tolling, job well done, look how many people are biting.
In all seriousness, you do realize you're arguing actual facts at this point right? "This is how mitigation maths works in this game, I've tested it and I've done hardest content in this game using build I made based on my knowledge. - I haven't done sh** in this game but I know better anyway and your maths is just wrong and you all suck." This is so funny lol.Edited by Magdalina on April 3, 2017 9:28AM8 -
Koensol✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Please don't come up with the same nonsense as you did on the Blazeplar tanking thread a while ago. A tanks role in eso is to support the group with buffs and debuffs. Staying alive is important but you don't need 2 uber tanky defensive gear sets plus monster set for it. Period. Please, stop.WalksonGraves wrote: »HatchetHaro wrote: »WalksonGraves wrote: »You missed my point, pulling mobs is never necessary and sacrificing a monster helm to do so is ridiculous. Btw Pirate is by far the best choice for tanks. It's pretty obvious I don't get why the forums are so slow to realize.
Like, wow, just. Wow.
Pirate Skeleton? I really hope you're just joking.
First of all: chains may not be necessary, but it is insanely useful. And as a tank, you're supposed to be all about utility.
Secondly, you seriously do not need Pirate Skeleton. It makes you overly tanky and does absolutely nothing for the group. Hell, I've tanked all vet dungeons on hardmode at 20k resistances and no resistance buffs. I've tanked all Craglorn vet trials with Bloodspawn. You really do not need more than 30k resistances. At 33k it gets capped anyway. Even a defending weapon does more than Pirate Skeleton.
Overly tanky? Oh god I sure wouldn't want to be taking less damage as a tank. Thank you for saving me from being effective in my role. You know how it helps the group? I can rez the group between hvy attacks because between my dr and my hp pool I can survive it. Not wiping is pretty useful.
You do realize the cap at 50% dr is only for armor and not other dr effects right?
I'd say 30% less damage most of the time (guard) is far more important than wasting your time trying to attract trash mobs.
OT: I have tried swarm mother on my templar tank. I agree it is beyond crap, for the same reasons you listed. Takes too long, unreliable, draining on resources, requires you to full time block and prevents you from using a better monster set.
Edited by Koensol on April 3, 2017 7:19AM4 -
Stannum✭✭✭✭WalksonGraves wrote: »It's beyond crap. So normally a dk sees a ranged mob, pulls it in to the murder blender. Takes a second, uses on slot on the skillbar.
You never need to do this, it's just a minor convenience. Shaves maybe 20 seconds off a run.
Then you have swarm mother, which is like a much ****tier version. First you need to range taunt (either more expensive than chains for half the effect or 3 second hvy attack wind up) then the enemy's projectile has to hit you while you're blocking. This is about 5-9 seconds, longer if you are taunting multiples.
By the time you did all that, you could have walked there and asked nicely.
You might as well run no gear at all.
Better alternatives for nb? Teleport strike.
lol.
1. If you re NB tank you should have over 2k mag regen and siphoning atacks so cost of inner fire is not an issue for you.
2. True sap tank permablocks so all ranged atacks hits you block and SM proc even on AoE. So the point is only in set CD.
So, when you initiate (usually with lotus fan) you take the first aggro and will pull some rangers automatically, then you spit rest with inner fire, and they all will be near you sooner or later. I've never seen DK using chains with same effectivness (may be they can, but usually they do not do it).Edited by Stannum on April 3, 2017 7:09AM0 -
Stannum✭✭✭✭And btw, i like SM in PvP also. D'you know what happens when DKs try to pull you with their chains?
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Duiwel✭✭✭✭✭
✭Best combo for tank is definitely - Kra'gh & Iceheart
On a serious note, I prefer Chudan / Chokethorn / Engine Guardian or sometimes Tremorscale for lulz@Duiwel:Join ORDER OF SITHIS We're recruiting! PC EU"Dear Brother. I do not spread rumours. I create them..."0 -
Enslaved✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭WalksonGraves wrote: »Lol @ you guys perma blocking, crawling around the boss fight scared to let go of left trigger. I only block heavy attacks because I'm a real tank and can take damage, the fact you need to block speaks volumes. You can't even imagine weaving, that 1 second of no defense scares you.
Actually, I do hold right mouse button most of the time. Left would make me a poor tank, heavy attacking all the time and similar. At least, that is how I play, since I am using standard, non left mouse/keyboard setup. If this was related to controlers, I am clueless about them.
About sets I like to use, I am pretty muck old school and still like bloodspawn, tava's, ebon, dragonguard etc. On the other hand, I am a DK and do use chains to pull stuff. I can't say I like pirate skelly since group has little to no utillity from it, and DK has no need for swarmom. I can understand why would another class see it as something nice, but I still like ulti generating or mana regen better even on saptank. I don't say I am bestest tank evur, but I still think DK is tanking masterrace(class)
Pic related, its me and my sisters after our healer left the group.
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Enslaved✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭DocFrost72 wrote: »WalksonGraves wrote: »WalksonGraves wrote: »Lol @ you guys perma blocking, crawling around the boss fight scared to let go of left trigger. I only block heavy attacks because I'm a real tank and can take damage, the fact you need to block speaks volumes. You can't even imagine weaving, that 1 second of no defense scares you.
We don't need to weave because we can sustain our permablock. We permablock so we can run more support sets for our group. We run more supportive sets because that's how you get higher scores in raids...
I do not run pirate skeleton because I don't need the mitigation because I can block. I run warden to help my melee stack.
I run ebon to give my group more survivability. I don't run reactive because why would I be cc'd?
I run alkosh to give my group more damage. I don't run lekis because.. I don't even know why I would ever use that.
GROUP. GROUP.
Once more.
SUPPORT THE DAMN GROUP
Ebon adds less than 100 damage per player, it's trash to support paper thin dps. Garbage.
Reactive triggers when I get hit by any cc and lasts a few seconds, this means unblockable boss grabs, knockback, fear, stuns from adds all trigger it and make me nearly invincible.
Leki affects aoe, which happens to include any telegraphed conical attack or fire field or burst aoe which is more than half of boss attacks. I also don't run aoe heals and the one aoe damage ability is already uselessly low dmg to begin with.
Last I heard alkosh conflicts with other buffs, either way a dps can run it if they want more dmg, my job is survival.
Fyi I support the group more just by running guard, in a 4 man that 10% crit adds up to more than all the warhorns you can muster.
Ebon does not split the health given. It gives some 1k+ health to 12 people, for a possible total well over 12k.
Leki's explicitly states in the description it only works on players' attacks, not monsters attacks.
You trollin', m8?
I think you mistake leki's for heartland http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Bastion+of+the+Heartland+Set0 -
Oompuh✭✭✭✭✭hmsdragonfly wrote: »
That is trueXbox NA - Oompa
Khajiit DK Tank
Founder of Major Aegis
Main Tank of Dissonant Crusade Uprising Savages0
