Cyrodiil Performance Test and Double AP Event

silky_soft

@ZOS_BrianWheeler next time you guys have an idea like this, please remove aoe cap completely. Otherwise you will create another week of faction zergs. Oh an by the way, top tier groups don't run out of resources with or without cp.

Etaniel

Anti_Virus wrote: »

No CP campaigns = Best thing in PVP.

-No more super high burst dmg -- Lel proc sets
-no more infinite sustain -- lel 3k + reg
- People have to heavy attack -- see above
- Significantly less lagg ( fps drops still ) -- Haven't noticed less lag, fps drops ahve nothing to do with this test
- requires more tactical analysis of people -- Potatoes are still potatoes
- No destro ult trains-- Lel there are still plenty of them, still effective
- no BOL spammers --They die easier, true
- no block tanks --That's actually the single first thing I encoutered yesterday, took 5 people beating on him for 2 min to take him down

MusekininKanchou

Think I'm done till this is over. It's not the no CP per say. There's no organization going on anymore and TF and Haderus are swarming with AD like they're not pop blocked at all and many of the few that aren't running around in Zergs are OP like their CP isn't disabled.

driosketch

Joy_Division wrote: »

Whoever says there are no destro trains either isn't paying attention or is RPing at the South Morrowind Gate. They work just fine:

If anything, I think my bomber is more effective since people do not as much stamina/resources to escape the destro ult.

There was definitely one at Ash durning the dethrone at Roe on NA PC TF. I'm not sure about their effectiveness sense they wiped, lag may have played a part in that.

I don't think the test is meant to lay blame for lag on CP. It's just to rule out another variable. If players can still run trains on TF with no CP, maybe they also happen on AS. Or maybe they don't because they're less effective and that's something else different between the servers.

NBrookus

Faction stacks zerging barely or undefended keeps. Resources being flipped by full raids. Just as much lag and more load screens.

This weekend is going to be completely unplayable.

Thelon

MusekininKanchou wrote: »

the few that aren't running around in Zergs are OP like their CP isn't disabled.

Maybe they're actual pvpers that took time to learn the game as opposed to zergbads who run around in faction blobs.

bowmanz607

Pc/na here. Standard computer setup with 70mbs Internet.

The last few days I have played all campaigns besides bwb during prime time. In AZ and had I get damn near zero lag and minimal load screen issues. My fps dips as low as 20 in large fights on those campaigns, but usually sit right around 30fps in most encounters.

On tf i have noticed a significant improvement in lag. The only time I noticeably lagged was during huge 3 way keep fights usually when trying to employ or deemp. During these fights my frames take a huge hit and goes to like 10fps at times, but outside of those huge encounters fps is fine. Even when it does lag for me during those fights, it is much better thenow it pr3vuously was. Previously I would get 999+. Now I sit between 300-500. Again during huge fights.

My overall experience has been much better though.

That said, on had and tf I have had people in my group complain about lag and how bad it is. Just yesterday my raid leader was noting that it got worse for him, but at the time he said he was experience lag I was experiencing zero. We were in same location doing the same thing.

On another note, people complain about load screens, I highly doubt cp removal has anything to do with this. The likely cause is simply more people.in pvp jamming up loading into keeps and all that. Everyone is trying to Spawn at the smell place at the same time which, imo, is the reason for the load screens. It is also important to note that when I don't run in a group I rarely ever, if ever, get long load screens. However, the larger the group I am in the more potential for longer load screens in my experience. Especially when we are all dead and load into same shrine at same time.

LarsS

Playing on EU tf I dont see any improvements. Ping in huge battles seems lower but my guildies still complain about skills not working.

MusekininKanchou

Thelon wrote: »

MusekininKanchou wrote: »

the few that aren't running around in Zergs are OP like their CP isn't disabled.

Maybe they're actual pvpers that took time to learn the game as opposed to zergbads who run around in faction blobs.

I'm used to those guys. I'm sure I'm on Youtube being killed by some of them but I doubt they posted me killing them. My group has never gone 4v4 and lost 10 times in a row.

Anti_Virus

Etaniel wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

No CP campaigns = Best thing in PVP.

-No more super high burst dmg -- Lel proc sets
-no more infinite sustain -- lel 3k + reg
- People have to heavy attack -- see above
- Significantly less lagg ( fps drops still ) -- Haven't noticed less lag, fps drops ahve nothing to do with this test
- requires more tactical analysis of people -- Potatoes are still potatoes
- No destro ult trains-- Lel there are still plenty of them, still effective
- no BOL spammers --They die easier, true
- no block tanks --That's actually the single first thing I encoutered yesterday, took 5 people beating on him for 2 min to take him down

Etaniel wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

No CP campaigns = Best thing in PVP.

-No more super high burst dmg -- Lel proc sets
-no more infinite sustain -- lel 3k + reg
- People have to heavy attack -- see above
- Significantly less lagg ( fps drops still ) -- Haven't noticed less lag, fps drops ahve nothing to do with this test
- requires more tactical analysis of people -- Potatoes are still potatoes
- No destro ult trains-- Lel there are still plenty of them, still effective
- no BOL spammers --They die easier, true
- no block tanks --That's actually the single first thing I encoutered yesterday, took 5 people beating on him for 2 min to take him down

There are block tanks? I didn't think it was possible.

Also didn't think Detro ult trains were possible

IM glad I didn't experience that yet.

BuggeX

screw it...

umagon

Trueflame NA:
-While the latency indicator most of the time remains at ~100ms there are times where there is a 2-3 delay before skills activate.

-Dethroning events still have high latency, where siege weapons will give an error stating the weapon is “busy”; and I saw npcs bug out in a fort that was not a part of the emperor keep siege. The npcs would go to attack a target then reset and keep repeating that cycle.

-After the performance issues are resolved a player collision system needs to be reviewed. With the influx of additional players due to the ap changes; players having multiple large groups standing inside of each other is getting really tiresome.

-Area effects need to be reviewed (again) the whole stack 50 players on top of each other and spam aoe needs to stop, it’s time to stop, it’s not ok; No more.

-Siege weapons are more effective without the champion points however I feel they need ~5-8% more damage. And scattershot catapult debuff needs to last longer and include all forms of damage.

lllNutterlll

umagon wrote: »

-Dethroning events still have high latency, where siege weapons will give an error stating the weapon is “busy”; and I saw npcs bug out in a fort that was not a part of the emperor keep siege. The npcs would go to attack a target then reset and keep repeating that cycle.

I've see this today as well. Xbox NA thornblade which is not really one of the busy servers for Xbox NA. Taking a resource the NPC's would aggro on me and just stop moving toward me while keeping Aggro. It's like they ran into an invisible wall. That happened multiple times.

I mean it made my job easier but still not right lol

Karivaa

When does this end?

Forztr

Before the event I played AZ EU for a few weeks with little to no lag or big fps drops until the week before when some big fights would drop me to 20fps and double my ping to 160-200.

During this week my baseline in medium to full zerg v zerg fights is 20-25fps and 200ping compared to questing and general play where I get 60+ fps and a 100ish ping.

Today I tracked my GPU and CPU and was surprised to see that when my fps dropped to the 20's CPU was at 25% my GPU was at 60%. My GPU works harder looking at the character select screen and checking my inventory in a home base than in big scale fights.

It feels like the game is intentionally throttling my PC to leave it resources in case it needs to deal with a spike. I really don't understand why when my in-game experience is compromised with lower fps and unresponsive abilities my CPU and GPU are not being pushed to the max.

ThePonzzz

I'm still seeing massive lag at times with crazy low FPS drops (which I never had before this stress test). I mentioned it in the zone chat, but I was met with L2P and buying a better computer... LUIE stated my FPS dropped to .5. It made me laugh.

Playing with the 64-bit version of the game.
Processor: Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-5820K CPU @ 3.30GHz (12 CPUs), ~3.3GHz
Memory: 16384MB RAM
GPU: Radeon RX 480 8 GB

Unlikely_Ghostbuster

ThePonzzz wrote: »

I'm still seeing massive lag at times with crazy low FPS drops (which I never had before this stress test). I mentioned it in the zone chat, but I was met with L2P and buying a better computer... LUIE stated my FPS dropped to .5. It made me laugh.

Playing with the 64-bit version of the game.
Processor: Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-5820K CPU @ 3.30GHz (12 CPUs), ~3.3GHz
Memory: 16384MB RAM
GPU: Radeon RX 480 8 GB

One small tangent -- you and I both have CPUs with six cores that can handle up to 12 32-bit processes, concurrently. Some hardware monitors misconstrue this as having 12 CPUs.

But no, it's definitely not your system's specs. Your system is good, but yep, there's still lag. I'm running a similar build with an NVIDIA card and 24gb of system memory on a 64-bit system and the lag is still prevalent in any/every clustered encounter at all the "usual suspects" locations on PC NA Trueflame (gates/bridges, outposts, and emperor keeps).

This test is not a precursor to removing CP from all PvP campaigns. Sadly, I think this diagnostic. They're trying to eliminate champion point passives as the culprit, or rather, see if/how there are performance differences between Trueflame and Azura's Star, now that both campaigns have CP disabled. I say "sadly" because that means they have no idea what the problem is, or they know what the problem is, but they believe the problem is prohibitively difficult to solve directly, so they're looking for mitigating "duct-tape" fixes to ease the performance issues.

Honestly, I don't think they're going to see Trueflame's performance improved in the slightest. I don't think the problem is lurking behind additional passives enabled. Personally, I maintain the problem is the ability to animation-cancel through an obscene number of attacks in less than a second using keyboard/controller macros. That's WAY more information that has to get relayed to/from the server and all the players involved in a given encounter than the server is expecting, given the number of players. There shouldn't be lag at a resource when there's only a group of 12 fighting another group of 12. If I hit a key to activate a skill or drink a potion and I hear the sound telling me that the UI registered the keystroke, but *NOTHING* actually happens -- I just stand there while I get melted down by the guys whose attacks DID fire, full stamina, but unable to roll/break-free because the server is lagging too hard to register my commands. With a *relatively* small number of players around, there shouldn't be too much activity for the server to be able to keep up and register my actions, as well -- unless some of those players' clients are demanding WAY more from the server than those of us "plebs" who still play the old-fashioned way.

If you have a group of players -- even a relatively small group -- using VOIP to coordinate "popping" macro attacks that feature ultimate, execution, dot, light, and burst-damage attacks weaved together using animation-cancelling to cram as many effective attacks into as small a window of time as possible, then the server is going to hiccup (probably severely). Those players using this strategy tantamount to a DDOS attack are having a great time, while the rest of us respawn and wonder why our attacks, blocks, and rolls just refused to fire. Not only does it lag the server, it's only fun for relatively few people.

If you have 1/50 players using macros to animation-cancel, maybe the system can handle it on the back-end. But consider what it means if every person in zone-chat who childishly and unapologetically responds to any/every complaint or question with "L2P n00b" uses macros. Under those circumstances, I'd be surprised if the PvP servers didn't explode.

This aspect of the game, as I understand it, allows for insanely good timed runs in dungeons/trials and other PvE content. If the developers ever made the hard (but arguably the best) choice to remove animation cancelling as a viable DPS strategy, there would be a full-scale revolt from players who can no longer produce ungodly DPS for competitively timed PvE content.

lllNutterlll

I can't even play PvP right now... Xbox NA Thornblade (not very populated) I can't CC break and I used my ultimate and it pulled the ultimate from me like I used it but it never went off. This was on small scale PvP. I went to one keep where there was actually large scale PvP and the frames dropped was unreal so I left again and went back to solo and literally had to hop offline. I'll be back next week when things are back to the way they were. I've never experienced it this bad and that's a non populated campaign.

ishilb14_ESO

Overall, the removal of CP has only improved latency in a minor way, but the change required was very large. Minor gains should be achieved by minor changes, not large ones. If large changes are going to be made in order to improve the game, then the quality of the improvement had best be high.

I'm sure a minor improvement to server performance could be gained by doing something like simplifying guard tactics and behaviors (keep, outpost, and resource NPCs). The melee guards analyze to see if the player is charging a heavy attack so they can block accordingly, and the guards with negate are analyzing to see if the player is casting any magicka abilities so they can negate. Honor guards check to see if their target is in melee range so they can switch from a ranged fire attack to close range shock attack. I'm sure simplifying all NPC behaviors would provide a minor improvement to server performance.

If you want to see a major improvement in server performance, then you can remove AoE caps entirely. The server has to recalculate damage or healing done for every tick of every AoE, just consider the number of calculations required for one person using destro ultimate, or spamming sap essence, in the middle of 30 people who are moving in and out. This would change the way PvP is played entirely but you would see a very large reduction of lag.

I'm not pushing for either of these two changes, but I want to point out that large changes should provide large gains, and that small gains should be achieved by small changes and not large ones.

I would not be opposed to CP being removed from PvP permanently, but many changes that were made in response to the strengths of CP need to be reverted as well, such as Efficient Purge having its cost decreased, as well as the damage done by siege being decreased.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_BrianWheeler

bowmanz607

ishilb14_ESO wrote: »

Overall, the removal of CP has only improved latency in a minor way, but the change required was very large. Minor gains should be achieved by minor changes, not large ones. If large changes are going to be made in order to improve the game, then the quality of the improvement had best be high.

I'm sure a minor improvement to server performance could be gained by doing something like simplifying guard tactics and behaviors (keep, outpost, and resource NPCs). The melee guards analyze to see if the player is charging a heavy attack so they can block accordingly, and the guards with negate are analyzing to see if the player is casting any magicka abilities so they can negate. Honor guards check to see if their target is in melee range so they can switch from a ranged fire attack to close range shock attack. I'm sure simplifying all NPC behaviors would provide a minor improvement to server performance.

If you want to see a major improvement in server performance, then you can remove AoE caps entirely. The server has to recalculate damage or healing done for every tick of every AoE, just consider the number of calculations required for one person using destro ultimate, or spamming sap essence, in the middle of 30 people who are moving in and out. This would change the way PvP is played entirely but you would see a very large reduction of lag.

I'm not pushing for either of these two changes, but I want to point out that large changes should provide large gains, and that small gains should be achieved by small changes and not large ones.

I would not be opposed to CP being removed from PvP permanently, but many changes that were made in response to the strengths of CP need to be reverted as well, such as Efficient Purge having its cost decreased, as well as the damage done by siege being decreased.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_BrianWheeler

Idk what is so hard for people to grasp about this. Cp is NOT being removed. This was a test to see how cp can be optimized to HELP reduce lag NOT to solve the problem.

Liley

Haderus EU. 5 Minutes in, getting loading screen and getting kicked out after a while. Now it wont let be log back onto my character. So I cant play on a saturday evening. Seriously??? Never ever have had that before, wtf is this?!

bowmanz607

Liley wrote: »

Haderus EU. 5 Minutes in, getting loading screen and getting kicked out after a while. Now it wont let be log back onto my character. So I cant play on a saturday evening. Seriously??? Never ever have had that before, wtf is this?!

It was likely a hard crash. Sometimes when this happens you need to log into another character and then back onto the one you want to play. Been around for awhile.

themdogesbite

Liley wrote: »

Haderus EU. 5 Minutes in, getting loading screen and getting kicked out after a while. Now it wont let be log back onto my character. So I cant play on a saturday evening. Seriously??? Never ever have had that before, wtf is this?!

It's due to all the people at bleakers, you cannot go there without crashing. If you are on a faction that's not poplocked and you crashed at bleakers you can kiss you char goodbye until pops die down or you get ZOS to port you out.

Unlikely_Ghostbuster

Ok, wow. So ya. I did my writs, ran dailies, then decided to go to Cyrodiil. Got into the queue at spot 44, only had to wait about ten or fifteen minutes. Not so bad.

I get to the gate, open my map, check the landscape, and start jogging to the transitus shrine. Mid-jog, my ping goes bonkers. My character starts to teleport/backtrack all over the place. Ping still through the roof, I get forcibly kicked to the login screen. YEP -- I lagged out of the game at HOME BASE.

The performance is so terrible that I can't even GET to combat.

Tried logging back in several times to the "Already logged in" error message. Eventually, I get to logged into the character select screen. UNFORTUNATELY, after trying to log into my main character (in Cyrodiil). Sat there watching the loading screen for about ten minutes before I decided to leave a comment to describe this lovely turn of events.

Let me check again...

Yup, still at the loading screen.

One more time...

YUP, STILL LOADING. This is exactly what I wanted to do this weekend. I'm having so much fun looking at this loading screen. Yes, I can absolutely do this all day. So much fun. I can hardly contain my enthusiasm. Ten out of ten, this is the best loading screen, EVAR.

FluffyReachWitch

@Unlikely_Ghostbuster if you're on PC NA, the server crashed and had to be taken down for maintenance. Trying to log in right now will lead to infinite loading.

C4rt3r_H4ll

NBrookus wrote: »

Faction stacks zerging barely or undefended keeps. Resources being flipped by full raids. Just as much lag and more load screens.

This weekend is going to be completely unplayable.

You had no idea how utterly unplayable it would be.
Ever consider a career writing fortune cookies ?

bugmom

Saw no improvement here - other than the nice extra AP, the lag was still there, lots of zeros, stupid long loading screens and missed prime time fun with my guild because after waiting in queue forever I got a long loading screen again, crashed, and had to start in queue again! It really sucks to pay a subscription and not even get to play. Now, servers are down.

Starshadw

Have seen zero improvements since the removal of CP. Have instead seen (and this includes during the weeknights before everyone and their mother decided to play PvP last night and thus cannot be blamed solely on increased population):

• Longer and more frequent unending load screens
• More lag - to the point where I died several times to people and skills I never saw. This generally turned out to be the ridiculous Destro ulti and/or siege hits which never rendered.
• More hitching and rubberbanding

In addition, this new increased offensive tick AP has turned the vast majority of PvP into PvDoor - and this has only been made worse by this week's AP bonus. Few want to defend anything - to the point where groups I was in deliberately didn't defend, instead waiting until a keep flipped before running in to attack the enemy and flip it back.

bowmanz607

Starshadw wrote: »

Have seen zero improvements since the removal of CP. Have instead seen (and this includes during the weeknights before everyone and their mother decided to play PvP last night and thus cannot be blamed solely on increased population):

• Longer and more frequent unending load screens
• More lag - to the point where I died several times to people and skills I never saw. This generally turned out to be the ridiculous Destro ulti and/or siege hits which never rendered.
• More hitching and rubberbanding

In addition, this new increased offensive tick AP has turned the vast majority of PvP into PvDoor - and this has only been made worse by this week's AP bonus. Few want to defend anything - to the point where groups I was in deliberately didn't defend, instead waiting until a keep flipped before running in to attack the enemy and flip it back.

it is very likely that it has to do with the increased population. Every server has been poplocked every night all week. you cant just say this was before the weekend so its not the increased population. that is false. the pop has been there all week.

Additionally, people really need to stop flipping out and saying that the lack of cp has somehow contributed to the lag. That is crazy and makes zero since. calculations were removed across the server. ou cant look and say that the removal of calculations made it worse. that is illogical. it seems quite obvious that it is the number of people now playing and less skilled pve players running in more ball groups for the increased ap.

further, you say everyone is pvdooring and then say that everyone waits to flip to fight. Which is it? people pvdooring or fighting???

also, how are people pvdooring in poplocked servers?? omg people are no longer running in a straight line from keep to keep and have spread out. Idk maybe you should learn to fight outside the ring and spread out to attack these other players spreading out. but alas i guess that is too much work for pugs. no more people just camping a keep, but actually *gasp* attacking keeps outside the circle and spreading fights out.

DSwatloski

Simple feedback. I like the no CP in PVP. Play is smoother over all. I have seen some lag with my key strokes building up and launching in rapid flurry about three or four times. I'm on a 50 MB Fios connection. What I don't like is the queue of 120 plus anytime after 6PM Eastern. I'd rather have the lag than not be able to play and wait over an hour to get in. Might not be worth playing at all if you can get the capacity up.