Cyrodiil Performance Test and Double AP Event

JesQPlays

Well after the newest patch, it just froze my game and kicks out, also my ping is over 200 even with good net and fps is below 30(low settings).

RinaldoGandolphi

SneaK wrote: »

So since the removal of CP didn't improve anything, it's safe to say ZOS has no idea why the lag is so bad.

That's depressing.

@SneaK

this is NOT TRUE. Right now there are 5-6 times as many players in Cyrodiill then there are normally. Heck my PVE Guild that NEVER PVP's ever had 400 members in Cyrodiil last night trying to get Allaince skills unlocked for trials.

the fact there was easily over 300 players at Ash last night and I (nor any of my PVE guildies) ever dropped below 35 FPS or saw any pings higher then 120 is HUGE.

This means once the double XP event is over and Cyrodiil populations go back to normal, if they decide to stay no-cp the lag will be completely gone, and whatever small incremental code changes they have been doing over the last year may infact be being held back by CP calculations.

Sometimes its just not possible hardware wise to calculate some stuff.

I don't know if your familiar with Project Discovery, Folding@Home/Team Helix, and Team Starfire, but these are gigantic distributed computer projects where everyone from your neighbors desktop computer, to some super computer own by the government donate CPU cycles to solve complex problems to finding cures for diseases and all other sorts of things. These things would not be possible without a gigantic cluster of donated CPU cycles from hundreds of millions of computers world wide.

The Champion System is a very ambitious project from ZOS. I think they may have underestimated how much CPU horsepower you would need to do all those calculations. I myself just looking at everything it has to calculate just for one person per sec and then times that by server population....I don't think they could buy a server cluster large enough to do all that and still remain in business....you would almost need folks to donate CPU cycles to solve it...I'll even go one step farhter and say Microsoft's Azure Cloud(the largest Could computer cluster in the entire world) would not be able to claculate what ZOS is doing with the CP system.

You attack one person with Crushing Shock and you got

1. Base Damage - 50%
2. Spell Resistance - Spell Penetration = X
3. X- % in Elemental Defender = X
4. If DOT applies then X - Elemental Defender % - Thick Skinned %
5. If Also a Crit then Crit damage + Crit increase % - Crit Resistance
6. Damage taken = Y

Vs without CP you got

1. Base Damage - 50%
2. Spell Resistance - Spell Pentration = X
3. If X is a Crit then Crit damage modifier - Crit Resist = Damage taken = Y

thats twice as many calcs, and I may be missing some in the CP system that adds even more....such as the various passives that happen when certain conditions are true that also must be run through the same ring.

I fully believe it is NOT technologically feasible to perform all the Calcs the CP system adds to the game and remain profitable.Even if they change the way they are calculated, it will make little difference. The hardware is simply not there yet, and the CP system was a very ambitious project in the first place. If CPU's were there it would be groundbreaking. ZOS would have to quadruple their server infrastructure, which would probably cost them millions per year thus putting them in the red.

I fully believe outside of a distributed computing model(is everyone here going to leave their PC on 24/7 and donate CPU cycles to ZOS to solve these math calcs?) that we are 5-6 generations away in CPU architecture (Intel is moving away from Silicon after the 7nm process next year) before something like the CP system can function on the scale they want it too at a reasonable cost.

Todd Howard hinted with TES6 they are a few years away from having the tech needed to do the game they want. The CP system sadly IMO is in the same boat. CPU can only service so many requests at one time, and even without the CP calcs the server is probably close to its max, adding more on that gives these stupid 700+ lag pings it just can't do that many calcs for that many people at once as long as CP is involved.

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2015/02/intel-forges-ahead-to-10nm-will-move-away-from-silicon-at-7nm/

Last nights test showed me they actually fixed the lighting patch issues, but i think there is a technological barrier with CP....i don't think their is a cluster of CPU on the planet for any less then 2.5 mill per year that will be able to handle those kinda calcs...even Microsoft's Azure Cloud(the largest cloud in the world) would struggle with that....what players are asking for here is unfeasible and i think ZOS is figuring that out after exhausting all other options.

I think they will try to re-work some of the code to try and relieve some of it, by re-factoring how those cals work, but its a band-aid solution....they will come to the conclusion its simply not feasible on that scale...in PVE you don't have 300+ people all in one place spamming skills which is why PVE for the most part isn't that bad, but in PVP? those are every day conditions and i'll be suprised if they can make that work.

I'll stay in Azura's until then, atleast the game can be played and works there when they bring back CP.

Joy_Division

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

So since the removal of CP didn't improve anything, it's safe to say ZOS has no idea why the lag is so bad.

That's depressing.

@SneaK

this is NOT TRUE. Right now there are 5-6 times as many players in Cyrodiill then there are normally. Heck my PVE Guild that NEVER PVP's ever had 400 members in Cyrodiil last night trying to get Allaince skills unlocked for trials.

the fact there was easily over 300 players at Ash last night and I (nor any of my PVE guildies) ever dropped below 35 FPS or saw any pings higher then 120 is HUGE.

This means once the double XP event is over and Cyrodiil populations go back to normal, if they decide to stay no-cp the lag will be completely gone, and whatever small incremental code changes they have been doing over the last year may infact be being held back by CP calculations.

Sometimes its just not possible hardware wise to calculate some stuff.

I don't know if your familiar with Project Discovery, Folding@Home/Team Helix, and Team Starfire, but these are gigantic distributed computer projects where everyone from your neighbors desktop computer, to some super computer own by the government donate CPU cycles to solve complex problems to finding cures for diseases and all other sorts of things. These things would not be possible without a gigantic cluster of donated CPU cycles from hundreds of millions of computers world wide.

The Champion System is a very ambitious project from ZOS. I think they may have underestimated how much CPU horsepower you would need to do all those calculations. I myself just looking at everything it has to calculate just for one person per sec and then times that by server population....I don't think they could buy a server cluster large enough to do all that and still remain in business....you would almost need folks to donate CPU cycles to solve it...I'll even go one step farhter and say Microsoft's Azure Cloud(the largest Could computer cluster in the entire world) would not be able to claculate what ZOS is doing with the CP system.

You attack one person with Crushing Shock and you got

1. Base Damage - 50%
2. Spell Resistance - Spell Penetration = X
3. X- % in Elemental Defender = X
4. If DOT applies then X - Elemental Defender % - Thick Skinned %
5. If Also a Crit then Crit damage + Crit increase % - Crit Resistance
6. Damage taken = Y

Vs without CP you got

1. Base Damage - 50%
2. Spell Resistance - Spell Pentration = X
3. If X is a Crit then Crit damage modifier - Crit Resist = Damage taken = Y

thats twice as many calcs, and I may be missing some in the CP system that adds even more....such as the various passives that happen when certain conditions are true that also must be run through the same ring.

I fully believe it is NOT technologically feasible to perform all the Calcs the CP system adds to the game and remain profitable.Even if they change the way they are calculated, it will make little difference. The hardware is simply not there yet, and the CP system was a very ambitious project in the first place. If CPU's were there it would be groundbreaking. ZOS would have to quadruple their server infrastructure, which would probably cost them millions per year thus putting them in the red.

I fully believe outside of a distributed computing model(is everyone here going to leave their PC on 24/7 and donate CPU cycles to ZOS to solve these math calcs?) that we are 5-6 generations away in CPU architecture (Intel is moving away from Silicon after the 7nm process next year) before something like the CP system can function on the scale they want it too at a reasonable cost.

Todd Howard hinted with TES6 they are a few years away from having the tech needed to do the game they want. The CP system sadly IMO is in the same boat. CPU can only service so many requests at one time, and even without the CP calcs the server is probably close to its max, adding more on that gives these stupid 700+ lag pings it just can't do that many calcs for that many people at once as long as CP is involved.

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2015/02/intel-forges-ahead-to-10nm-will-move-away-from-silicon-at-7nm/

Last nights test showed me they actually fixed the lighting patch issues, but i think there is a technological barrier with CP....i don't think their is a cluster of CPU on the planet for any less then 2.5 mill per year that will be able to handle those kinda calcs...even Microsoft's Azure Cloud(the largest cloud in the world) would struggle with that....what players are asking for here is unfeasible and i think ZOS is figuring that out after exhausting all other options.

I think they will try to re-work some of the code to try and relieve some of it, by re-factoring how those cals work, but its a band-aid solution....they will come to the conclusion its simply not feasible on that scale...in PVE you don't have 300+ people all in one place spamming skills which is why PVE for the most part isn't that bad, but in PVP? those are every day conditions and i'll be suprised if they can make that work.

I'll stay in Azura's until then, atleast the game can be played and works there when they bring back CP.

All I can say about this is the lag was terrible during 1.5 and it was terrible last night at the EP faction stack @Aleswell TF around midnight EST.

RinaldoGandolphi

@Joy_Division

It appears to me that the lag caused in 1.5 (Lighting patch) has largely been fixed.

With the population we have during this double ap event you wouldn't even be able to play in Cyrodiil at all with cp...you would be sitting with a 900 ping all the time.

This test is going to show ZOS that with normal pvp pops no cp simply scales better.

As I said I doubt they just remove cp all together. Atleast not right away. I think they try to re-factor some of the CP code first and see if they can get acceptable performance that way first. I think stripping CP will be a last resort if all other avenues are exhausted. I'll wait and see.

As long as a non CP campaign exists I don't care if they leave cp or not. As long as I have an option to play no cp on Azura I'm good with them leaving TF if that's what they decide to do

Sigtric

Eleusian wrote: »

Is this event all platforms ?

yes, all platforms all campaigns

Joy_Division

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

@Joy_Division

It appears to me that the lag caused in 1.5 (Lighting patch) has largely been fixed.

With the population we have during this double ap event you wouldn't even be able to play in Cyrodiil at all with cp...you would be sitting with a 900 ping all the time.

This test is going to show ZOS that with normal pvp pops no cp simply scales better.

As I said I doubt they just remove cp all together. Atleast not right away. I think they try to re-factor some of the CP code first and see if they can get acceptable performance that way first. I think stripping CP will be a last resort if all other avenues are exhausted. I'll wait and see.

As long as a non CP campaign exists I don't care if they leave cp or not. As long as I have an option to play no cp on Azura I'm good with them leaving TF if that's what they decide to do

They did not raise the population caps. There was just as many people at the Aleswell faction stack last night as your typical TF faction stack.

You already have your mind made up and made your playstyle preference quite clear, which is fine, but I do not agree with your assessment that after a 24 hour period the test is a success that "proves" anything, especially since you do not have access to the data that ZoS has

Zvorgin

Joy_Division wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

@Joy_Division

It appears to me that the lag caused in 1.5 (Lighting patch) has largely been fixed.

With the population we have during this double ap event you wouldn't even be able to play in Cyrodiil at all with cp...you would be sitting with a 900 ping all the time.

This test is going to show ZOS that with normal pvp pops no cp simply scales better.

As I said I doubt they just remove cp all together. Atleast not right away. I think they try to re-factor some of the CP code first and see if they can get acceptable performance that way first. I think stripping CP will be a last resort if all other avenues are exhausted. I'll wait and see.

As long as a non CP campaign exists I don't care if they leave cp or not. As long as I have an option to play no cp on Azura I'm good with them leaving TF if that's what they decide to do

They did not raise the population caps. There was just as many people at the Aleswell faction stack last night as your typical TF faction stack.

You already have your mind made up and made your playstyle preference quite clear, which is fine, but I do not agree with your assessment that after a 24 hour period the test is a success that "proves" anything, especially since you do not have access to the data that ZoS has

It definitely felt more stable last night on PS4 and there were some intense 3 way Zerg fights going on around Aleswell. I thought small scale PvP felt more balanced and less gank friendly.

ut.nakladacprb19_ESO

Seriously would be nice to fix that constant crash to login screen that's happening right now, crashes every 20 minutes, makes for really unplesant gaming experience.

toekster

Zvorgin wrote: »

PvP with no CP is a lot of fun so far, I'm a fan.

than go play azura and leave TF for ppl who like cp!!!!

mateoz

If they want to solve the main pvp lag problem they should just read this article :

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/256376/eso-performance-and-lag-technical-discussion

It is from 1 year ago and explain the real problem with ESO. The answer is already on the forum and its not CP

ZOS should contact this guy

Zvorgin

toekster wrote: »

Zvorgin wrote: »

PvP with no CP is a lot of fun so far, I'm a fan.

than go play azura and leave TF for ppl who like cp!!!!

I'm actually on console but will consider the non-cp campaign after this test week. PvP with CP & high pop is better than PvP with no CP and a low pop.

SoulScream

I have played on the AZ NA no CP camp for a long time and it has lagged before this test. I recently switched to TF NA CP before the test and it lags at least twice as bad as my experience in AZ. It's a little worse now during the test. It's not all sunshine and rainbows on AZ no CP but maybe this test can help CP campaigns have less lag. Both servers are the worst for me in the evening. Really big battles can kick me to log in with no error and this is another thing that happens much more on CP. My experience so far!

SneaK

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

So since the removal of CP didn't improve anything, it's safe to say ZOS has no idea why the lag is so bad.

That's depressing.

@SneaK

this is NOT TRUE. Right now there are 5-6 times as many players in Cyrodiill then there are normally. Heck my PVE Guild that NEVER PVP's ever had 400 members in Cyrodiil last night trying to get Allaince skills unlocked for trials.

the fact there was easily over 300 players at Ash last night and I (nor any of my PVE guildies) ever dropped below 35 FPS or saw any pings higher then 120 is HUGE.

This means once the double XP event is over and Cyrodiil populations go back to normal, if they decide to stay no-cp the lag will be completely gone, and whatever small incremental code changes they have been doing over the last year may infact be being held back by CP calculations.

Sometimes its just not possible hardware wise to calculate some stuff.

I don't know if your familiar with Project Discovery, Folding@Home/Team Helix, and Team Starfire, but these are gigantic distributed computer projects where everyone from your neighbors desktop computer, to some super computer own by the government donate CPU cycles to solve complex problems to finding cures for diseases and all other sorts of things. These things would not be possible without a gigantic cluster of donated CPU cycles from hundreds of millions of computers world wide.

The Champion System is a very ambitious project from ZOS. I think they may have underestimated how much CPU horsepower you would need to do all those calculations. I myself just looking at everything it has to calculate just for one person per sec and then times that by server population....I don't think they could buy a server cluster large enough to do all that and still remain in business....you would almost need folks to donate CPU cycles to solve it...I'll even go one step farhter and say Microsoft's Azure Cloud(the largest Could computer cluster in the entire world) would not be able to claculate what ZOS is doing with the CP system.

You attack one person with Crushing Shock and you got

1. Base Damage - 50%
2. Spell Resistance - Spell Penetration = X
3. X- % in Elemental Defender = X
4. If DOT applies then X - Elemental Defender % - Thick Skinned %
5. If Also a Crit then Crit damage + Crit increase % - Crit Resistance
6. Damage taken = Y

Vs without CP you got

1. Base Damage - 50%
2. Spell Resistance - Spell Pentration = X
3. If X is a Crit then Crit damage modifier - Crit Resist = Damage taken = Y

thats twice as many calcs, and I may be missing some in the CP system that adds even more....such as the various passives that happen when certain conditions are true that also must be run through the same ring.

I fully believe it is NOT technologically feasible to perform all the Calcs the CP system adds to the game and remain profitable.Even if they change the way they are calculated, it will make little difference. The hardware is simply not there yet, and the CP system was a very ambitious project in the first place. If CPU's were there it would be groundbreaking. ZOS would have to quadruple their server infrastructure, which would probably cost them millions per year thus putting them in the red.

I fully believe outside of a distributed computing model(is everyone here going to leave their PC on 24/7 and donate CPU cycles to ZOS to solve these math calcs?) that we are 5-6 generations away in CPU architecture (Intel is moving away from Silicon after the 7nm process next year) before something like the CP system can function on the scale they want it too at a reasonable cost.

Todd Howard hinted with TES6 they are a few years away from having the tech needed to do the game they want. The CP system sadly IMO is in the same boat. CPU can only service so many requests at one time, and even without the CP calcs the server is probably close to its max, adding more on that gives these stupid 700+ lag pings it just can't do that many calcs for that many people at once as long as CP is involved.

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2015/02/intel-forges-ahead-to-10nm-will-move-away-from-silicon-at-7nm/

Last nights test showed me they actually fixed the lighting patch issues, but i think there is a technological barrier with CP....i don't think their is a cluster of CPU on the planet for any less then 2.5 mill per year that will be able to handle those kinda calcs...even Microsoft's Azure Cloud(the largest cloud in the world) would struggle with that....what players are asking for here is unfeasible and i think ZOS is figuring that out after exhausting all other options.

I think they will try to re-work some of the code to try and relieve some of it, by re-factoring how those cals work, but its a band-aid solution....they will come to the conclusion its simply not feasible on that scale...in PVE you don't have 300+ people all in one place spamming skills which is why PVE for the most part isn't that bad, but in PVP? those are every day conditions and i'll be suprised if they can make that work.

I'll stay in Azura's until then, atleast the game can be played and works there when they bring back CP.

We live in two different worlds my friend (I'm on console). We regularly have 3 factions pop-locked in a campaign at a time, and hundreds of people in the same area at a time. Last night was no different in terms of lag when in Cyrodiil. We had a group of about 12 people on, and every fight at least 4 of our games would freeze and call for a complete reset. It happens everyday for us.

Try to imagine this please, you're crown of a 12 man group, as soon as the wall comes down and you guys all try to storm a keep, you crash. When you come back you find out that 4 others in your group crashed, the rest were wiped when crown suddenly vanished and was randomly assigned to the next player (who also crashed). You then have to wait for 5-10 minutes for everyone to log back on, and from there you rally, to only have the exact same thing happen to you at the next keep.

I would really like to be enthusiastic about it all, I am happy they are trying something. But honestly, I saw no difference last night with no CP. Also, our lag is not limited to Cyrodiil, it happens everywhere. Which is another indication that this test isn't really honing in on the issue.

@Joy_Division
You mentioned the meteors, I had strange things happening when hit with meteors on console. It would port me all around the map and then land me a couple seconds later where I was hit.

toekster

Zvorgin wrote: »

toekster wrote: »

Zvorgin wrote: »

PvP with no CP is a lot of fun so far, I'm a fan.

than go play azura and leave TF for ppl who like cp!!!!

I'm actually on console but will consider the non-cp campaign after this test week. PvP with CP & high pop is better than PvP with no CP and a low pop.

i understand that, ppl wanna play without cp and ppl wanna play with cp we had something for both so it was good hope they not gonna make this permanent

Takllin

Etaniel wrote: »

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

As a reminder, there is a key difference between FPS loss and Latency.

Please note your FPS and your Latency when reporting any information this week along with the scenario (Chalman milegate, Alessia Bridge, etc.) Platform and Region (NA, EU) you're reporting on.

@ZOS_BrianWheeler
Don't know what you've done with the latency meter though, but it's not accurate at all.
My ping meter stays in my usual numbers ie 100-120 all the time, even in situatiions where there is 1 sec delay. It's not a valid source for latency.

Basically this. I'll always have 100-200 ping and still delays. You can "feel" it and that is what I base my assumptions on. That's not to say FPS is as *** as ever. Several times last night when pushing into a group I would drop below 5 frames. This never happened before the patch either.

Someone from the EP emp group on Trueflame PC NA saying they didn't lag at all at the final emp keep, but myself and several people from that same group talked about it lagging quite a bit. I would also mention that it was not a full three faction stack there. Mostly DC because there was only my AD group plus a few pugs, and a lot of EP died at the lumbermill to my group when the keep was flagged and couldn't get back.

@ZOS_BrianWheeler if you want an example of when the latency meter actually moved.. 2/28 morning at around 5:30am EST my group fought against an oceanic DC faction stack at Castle Roebeck and the latency meter shot up to 500. This was also where I was experiencing the FPS drops down to 5 and lower.

Rickter

I was reading around in some of these threads and I came across something that made a little sense: "that there was lag prior to the introduction of CP so why would CP improve server performance"

sounds legit .. .

well lets take is one step further: why was there lag prior to CP? Im wondering how much strain the current way of calculating AP gain is factoring into the server performance. When you look at the break down of how exactly AP is calculated, its pretty in depth:

The level of the person who died (lower level = less AP)
How long since the person died (shorter = less AP with full AP value returning after 5 minutes of no deaths)
The alliance rank of the person being killed (0.5% per alliance rank)
(25% more AP for killing an AR50 Grand Overlord than an AR1 Volunteer)
The campaign buffs that you have (small % for home keeps, and more for each enemy keep owned)
The personal buff that you have (20% for killing a delve boss)

now multiply that by all the people on a server. now tell me this wouldnt affect server performance. Maybe @ZOS_BrianWheeler can take a look at this instead of CP in the next coming weeks

Hurika

FPS seems about the same with enemies around.... 40-60 depending on zerg size and effects being rendered. This is the same as before.

LAG seems generally higher. Varies from 90-1100. Saw a lot of 600+. Abilities would not fire and animations for abilities would not show a decent amount of the time. Abilities failing happened more without CP than with CP during moderate sized encounters.

Armitas

Hurika wrote: »

Abilities would not fire and animations for abilities would not show a decent amount of the time.

That is the biggest difference I noticed. Mist form seems to be the worst, that and weapon swap.

Joy_Division

SneaK wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

So since the removal of CP didn't improve anything, it's safe to say ZOS has no idea why the lag is so bad.

That's depressing.

@SneaK

this is NOT TRUE. Right now there are 5-6 times as many players in Cyrodiill then there are normally. Heck my PVE Guild that NEVER PVP's ever had 400 members in Cyrodiil last night trying to get Allaince skills unlocked for trials.

the fact there was easily over 300 players at Ash last night and I (nor any of my PVE guildies) ever dropped below 35 FPS or saw any pings higher then 120 is HUGE.

This means once the double XP event is over and Cyrodiil populations go back to normal, if they decide to stay no-cp the lag will be completely gone, and whatever small incremental code changes they have been doing over the last year may infact be being held back by CP calculations.

Sometimes its just not possible hardware wise to calculate some stuff.

I don't know if your familiar with Project Discovery, Folding@Home/Team Helix, and Team Starfire, but these are gigantic distributed computer projects where everyone from your neighbors desktop computer, to some super computer own by the government donate CPU cycles to solve complex problems to finding cures for diseases and all other sorts of things. These things would not be possible without a gigantic cluster of donated CPU cycles from hundreds of millions of computers world wide.

The Champion System is a very ambitious project from ZOS. I think they may have underestimated how much CPU horsepower you would need to do all those calculations. I myself just looking at everything it has to calculate just for one person per sec and then times that by server population....I don't think they could buy a server cluster large enough to do all that and still remain in business....you would almost need folks to donate CPU cycles to solve it...I'll even go one step farhter and say Microsoft's Azure Cloud(the largest Could computer cluster in the entire world) would not be able to claculate what ZOS is doing with the CP system.

You attack one person with Crushing Shock and you got

1. Base Damage - 50%
2. Spell Resistance - Spell Penetration = X
3. X- % in Elemental Defender = X
4. If DOT applies then X - Elemental Defender % - Thick Skinned %
5. If Also a Crit then Crit damage + Crit increase % - Crit Resistance
6. Damage taken = Y

Vs without CP you got

1. Base Damage - 50%
2. Spell Resistance - Spell Pentration = X
3. If X is a Crit then Crit damage modifier - Crit Resist = Damage taken = Y

thats twice as many calcs, and I may be missing some in the CP system that adds even more....such as the various passives that happen when certain conditions are true that also must be run through the same ring.

I fully believe it is NOT technologically feasible to perform all the Calcs the CP system adds to the game and remain profitable.Even if they change the way they are calculated, it will make little difference. The hardware is simply not there yet, and the CP system was a very ambitious project in the first place. If CPU's were there it would be groundbreaking. ZOS would have to quadruple their server infrastructure, which would probably cost them millions per year thus putting them in the red.

I fully believe outside of a distributed computing model(is everyone here going to leave their PC on 24/7 and donate CPU cycles to ZOS to solve these math calcs?) that we are 5-6 generations away in CPU architecture (Intel is moving away from Silicon after the 7nm process next year) before something like the CP system can function on the scale they want it too at a reasonable cost.

Todd Howard hinted with TES6 they are a few years away from having the tech needed to do the game they want. The CP system sadly IMO is in the same boat. CPU can only service so many requests at one time, and even without the CP calcs the server is probably close to its max, adding more on that gives these stupid 700+ lag pings it just can't do that many calcs for that many people at once as long as CP is involved.

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2015/02/intel-forges-ahead-to-10nm-will-move-away-from-silicon-at-7nm/

Last nights test showed me they actually fixed the lighting patch issues, but i think there is a technological barrier with CP....i don't think their is a cluster of CPU on the planet for any less then 2.5 mill per year that will be able to handle those kinda calcs...even Microsoft's Azure Cloud(the largest cloud in the world) would struggle with that....what players are asking for here is unfeasible and i think ZOS is figuring that out after exhausting all other options.

I think they will try to re-work some of the code to try and relieve some of it, by re-factoring how those cals work, but its a band-aid solution....they will come to the conclusion its simply not feasible on that scale...in PVE you don't have 300+ people all in one place spamming skills which is why PVE for the most part isn't that bad, but in PVP? those are every day conditions and i'll be suprised if they can make that work.

I'll stay in Azura's until then, atleast the game can be played and works there when they bring back CP.

@Joy_Division
You mentioned the meteors, I had strange things happening when hit with meteors on console. It would port me all around the map and then land me a couple seconds later where I was hit.

You are describing what is sometimes called "rubber banding." Meteors have by far been the biggest culprit causing this and I would bet a fair amount of crowns that the much higher use of meteors last night was because people realized ZoS did something more than remove CPs during the last patch. I experienced more rubber-banding and breaking free was taking unnecessarily long to register.

In all I would say that on average, ping and latency issues were on the whole a little better than last night. But just that a little better. The same could be said of all ZoS's efforts since the 1.6 patch...each server calculation reduced have made things a little better. But all of these "littles" do not add up to the huge issue that has plague ESO ever since they put the anti-botting measures in way way back in the summer of 2014: whenever large numbers of people, CPs or no, at the same place on the map, the server performance goes down the toilet; the problem is exacerbated when we are dealing with organized groups.

SoulScream

^ Yes! Cyro has long needed LARGE changes not small.

RinaldoGandolphi

Joy_Division wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

@Joy_Division

It appears to me that the lag caused in 1.5 (Lighting patch) has largely been fixed.

With the population we have during this double ap event you wouldn't even be able to play in Cyrodiil at all with cp...you would be sitting with a 900 ping all the time.

This test is going to show ZOS that with normal pvp pops no cp simply scales better.

As I said I doubt they just remove cp all together. Atleast not right away. I think they try to re-factor some of the CP code first and see if they can get acceptable performance that way first. I think stripping CP will be a last resort if all other avenues are exhausted. I'll wait and see.

As long as a non CP campaign exists I don't care if they leave cp or not. As long as I have an option to play no cp on Azura I'm good with them leaving TF if that's what they decide to do

They did not raise the population caps. There was just as many people at the Aleswell faction stack last night as your typical TF faction stack.

You already have your mind made up and made your playstyle preference quite clear, which is fine, but I do not agree with your assessment that after a 24 hour period the test is a success that "proves" anything, especially since you do not have access to the data that ZoS has

@Joy_Division

I actually want them to keep a CP campaign. I'm a big supporter of player choice and players should be able to play with CP if that's what they want. I'm just not sure they will ever solve the lag problems with them though, but a CP campaign should continue to exist for those who wish to play with them.

AshTal

So far its been a lot more fun. No idea about lag but maybe this is what its like to play without crippling lag and I just think I am doing better not casting spells at empty space.

1 disconnect (then the annoyance of having a 2 hour queue to get back in) but that's it.

Isellskooma

Stamina is literally unplayable unless you run 6 man, mag builds take absolutely no skill.
I have to worry about my healing, I can sustain in non-cp, but can't heal for ***. Hop on my magblade throw on Spinners, Necro and could sustain, be tanky, literally 4 shot Stam builds cause they can't heal through my damage AND NOT HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT HEALING! It's pathetic.

Joy_Division

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

@Joy_Division

It appears to me that the lag caused in 1.5 (Lighting patch) has largely been fixed.

With the population we have during this double ap event you wouldn't even be able to play in Cyrodiil at all with cp...you would be sitting with a 900 ping all the time.

This test is going to show ZOS that with normal pvp pops no cp simply scales better.

As I said I doubt they just remove cp all together. Atleast not right away. I think they try to re-factor some of the CP code first and see if they can get acceptable performance that way first. I think stripping CP will be a last resort if all other avenues are exhausted. I'll wait and see.

As long as a non CP campaign exists I don't care if they leave cp or not. As long as I have an option to play no cp on Azura I'm good with them leaving TF if that's what they decide to do

They did not raise the population caps. There was just as many people at the Aleswell faction stack last night as your typical TF faction stack.

You already have your mind made up and made your playstyle preference quite clear, which is fine, but I do not agree with your assessment that after a 24 hour period the test is a success that "proves" anything, especially since you do not have access to the data that ZoS has

@Joy_Division

I actually want them to keep a CP campaign. I'm a big supporter of player choice and players should be able to play with CP if that's what they want. I'm just not sure they will ever solve the lag problems with them though, but a CP campaign should continue to exist for those who wish to play with them.

That's all fine in theory. But I don't see how ZoS can balance a game that in essence uses three different rulesets (PvE, CP PvP with Battlespirirt, no CP PvP).

What ZoS ought to do is reform CP such that it offers minor benefits in a mostly horizontal progression system and ideally these benefits do not include many server calculations. That would do much to limit the power creep, still offer an incentive to progress our characters (with the added benefit that they would be more unique rather than strictly stronger), limit server calculations, and, most importantly, make it such when balance discussion come up, we are all coming from pretty much the same perspective.

But I know what ZoS will do: throw it hands up in the air and offer the cheapest and laziest "solution" by applying some sort of band-aid fix that it thinks its customer base will accept, which will just have the consequence of dividing us further. So I will point out what I feel are problems with the "easy" solutions suggested to ZoS by the playerbase.

Takllin

Armitas wrote: »

Hurika wrote: »

Abilities would not fire and animations for abilities would not show a decent amount of the time.

That is the biggest difference I noticed. Mist form seems to be the worst, that and weapon swap.

Yes. There is a lot of animations not rendering along with players. At BRK lumber yesterday I pushed into what I thought was an equal number of reds only to be surrounded by 30 others I didn't see until I got there.

Berenhir

Berenhir wrote: »

Latency was good on first day PC EU TF. Made ~700k AP today with a small group playing the map. We only had ping spikes when that Russian banana train circle-zerged Aleswell (PR > 800, normal PR 70-100).

Second day of the nCP test. Latency was worse than it has ever been with CP. Ping spikes up to 8k (sic!) and perma loading screens for half the group. PvP was mostly unplayable. Whatever it was that you changed, revert it. If you didn't change anything, your code and databases are probably a complete mess.

King_Kaboodles

Sweet cyrodill is packed and full of action.

waitwhat

Zvorgin wrote: »

toekster wrote: »

Zvorgin wrote: »

PvP with no CP is a lot of fun so far, I'm a fan.

than go play azura and leave TF for ppl who like cp!!!!

I'm actually on console but will consider the non-cp campaign after this test week. PvP with CP & high pop is better than PvP with no CP and a low pop.

A lot of us on PS4 are thinking of going back to Azura's. We really like the fact that magicka builds actually have to worry about their resources and can't just spam heals and shields.

We also like the fact that things matter again. It's no longer just about who has the most destro ults.

waitwhat

lllNutterlll wrote: »

I wonder if all these people that are just finding out they like no CP campaigns know Azura's Star has been a thing for awhile now?

@IIINutterIII Better late than never.

waitwhat

Zvorgin wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

@Joy_Division

It appears to me that the lag caused in 1.5 (Lighting patch) has largely been fixed.

With the population we have during this double ap event you wouldn't even be able to play in Cyrodiil at all with cp...you would be sitting with a 900 ping all the time.

This test is going to show ZOS that with normal pvp pops no cp simply scales better.

As I said I doubt they just remove cp all together. Atleast not right away. I think they try to re-factor some of the CP code first and see if they can get acceptable performance that way first. I think stripping CP will be a last resort if all other avenues are exhausted. I'll wait and see.

As long as a non CP campaign exists I don't care if they leave cp or not. As long as I have an option to play no cp on Azura I'm good with them leaving TF if that's what they decide to do

They did not raise the population caps. There was just as many people at the Aleswell faction stack last night as your typical TF faction stack.

You already have your mind made up and made your playstyle preference quite clear, which is fine, but I do not agree with your assessment that after a 24 hour period the test is a success that "proves" anything, especially since you do not have access to the data that ZoS has

It definitely felt more stable last night on PS4 and there were some intense 3 way Zerg fights going on around Aleswell. I thought small scale PvP felt more balanced and less gank friendly.

I agree.

I tried ganking some blue sorc with Viper and Velidreth, outside ASH last night, PS4 NA Scourge. I timed it wrong and didn't kill him immediately. He healed once and shielded, then we had some pretty engaging and stimulating skirmishing for about 30 seconds.

I didn't manage stam regen as well and so couldn't finish the job, but he couldn't nuke me and he knew he couldn't get too close or heal for days, so he actually had to watch where he walked. He ended up bolt-escaping out of there, and I mounted up and went somewhere else.

THAT was a quality PvP experience. It was exciting and kept me on edge to actually have to--and have the time to--react to the situation. Our resistances from Hardy, Elemental Defender, and Resistant were down, but so was our damage from the Mage stars, so the one-shot meta for both stam and magicka was tempered, and we had to use the space between our ears to figure out what to do.

They key success in removing CP lies in removing the additional resource regeneration. Split-second planning matters now. You can see it in the way we face off. 1v1 encounters seem to eye each other a split second longer, rather than just pounce and spam Ambush/Radiant Oppression/Velocitous Curse until the better resistance to damage stat configuration prevails. Winning without CP takes more thought and thereby introduces more variables into each encounter. More variables means more death at first, and more death can be humbling for players unused to it. Many of us can probably get behind spreading more humility around Cyrodiil.

Lastly, for those still not sold on no CP: Neither the sorc or I could afford to waste resources running to a tree and running/roll-dodging around it. We literally couldn't afford to be cancerous.

@ZOS_MattFiror , @ZOS_GinaBruno , @ZOS_BrianWheeler : Removing CP was masterful, the technical data garnered from this experiment notwithstanding. I let my ego get in the way of trying a no-cp campaign (been in Scourge since level 23) but now I see how great it is for us, the players. It is good for the us to have to think on our feet, rather than just rely on grinding and stat min/maxing. It makes us play closer attention to the nuances the game mechanics, and it will make us more humble.

Remove CP resource regeneration bonuses from all content, even if you have to lessen boss damage and crafted poison effect intensity/durations. Objections from players that content will take longer or that they will have to rebuild or that they will die more do not matter. Players will never want to adapt, and they will hate having to incorporate dying into their overall strategy, but they played the game before CP and they will continue to play regardless. Force them to get better, and they will. Everyone gets past Iudex Gundyr if they don't give up, and everyone who does is better off for it.