Morrowind...and ESO+

Vindold · May 2017

Galwylin wrote: »

Do DLCs exist any more and if so, what are they like? If you want and example of WoW expansion I can tell you the last one I played. It had around six new zones (maybe more), a huge number of dungeons, they made changes to existing zones, the pushed the storyline forward, added new abilities to all characters, I believe it had a few raids but they continue to add those as the storyline progresses and raised the level cap. That is a typical WoW expansions. There's no way in hell Morrowind is an expansion. Its barely an extension.

Yes, there will be DLCs:

ESO: Morrowind, our first Chapter release, in June
A dungeon-based DLC in the third quarter
A content-based DLC in the fourth quarter

Proof: http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/2017/02/01/welcome-to-2017

Some information about WoW for those who haven't played it, just for comparison...

So, good thing about WoW is that all cool stuff in game like mounts or gear(transmogrification) can be aqquired by playing the game, playing, not paying. Yes you have to buy an Expansion and WoW don't have DLCs, BUT, Expansions offer new class, lvl cap -> abilities -> new balance\class mechanics changes for good or ill, many dungeons, 1 raid, then every ~3-4 months they release a new content with a new zone, Raid and ~1-2 Dungeons + a bit of story quests and maybe new Daily quests, new Gear, new Mounts and all this is for free, just pay for your sub with GOLD, yeah with in game currency, that's right or pay with cash and for ex. for Russia WoW sub is much more cheaper than ESO+, like 50% cheaper. Also, you can now buy stuff from WoW in game store for Gold, yes it's damn expensive, but you can.
That is a good thing about WoW. Bad thing is that you will probably have a feeling that you should invest your free time only in WoW because you've paid for a month, time is running out and you should hurry up (dungeons\raids refresh each week), so at this point ESO is better.

This is normal to pay with $$$ for Expac and Morrowind is kind of an Expac, new class after all, new story line and a big chunk of land, bigger than Orsinium, BUT Morrowind should have Dungeons(not public) as well, not just Trial. If ZOS are planing to Update Morrowind Content in the next 'Chapter' or with DLCs, that's fine by me(well, depends on how good Morrowind will be..I'm playing just for Morrowind, nostalgia after all), but such updates will not be for free, there is nothing for free in this game.
You guys are playing one of the most expensive(trust me, I've played a lot) MMO ever so you shouldn't be surprised at all.

FoulSnowpaw · May 2017

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

An ESO Plus membership will not grant you access to The Elder Scroll Online: Morrowind content. As this is an entirely new Chapter of ESO, you'll need to purchase one of the five editions. If you already own ESO, though, you can purchase the Morrowind Upgrade or the Morrowind Collector's Edition Upgrade directly from online stores (The Elder Scrolls Online Store, Steam Store, Xbox Store, or PlayStation Store).

Makes sense somewhat. Imagine having ESO plus and you create a Warden(exclusively for Morrowind purchase).
IF or after your plus subscription runs out would your Warden character be locked? Pretty much.

BUT I feel the dlc overall should still be purchasable with crowns, for crowns are pretty much still real money.
AND ZOS should've clarified the Morrowind purchase details a little better; that the dlc is only accessible with direct purchase

"Access to all DLC Game Packs available in the Crown Store", quoting from the store for ESO+... probably why TESO is not adding Morrowind dlc to the Crown Store.... well that's disappointing. Because it's not in the crown store, plus members are not given access to Morrowind.

Just my outlook on this.

Tulach · May 2017

Wow I just found out about this. Ive been ESO plus since they launched it. I was under the impression that all future content was included as that really was the only reason for doing that over buying little content packs instead. I dont mind paying for a game at all. I paid for my Everquest Sub for what 15+ years and had no issue with it. I do however have an issue with a company telling you all future content is included with your sub then it isnt.

The thin veil they are calling this an expansion or new Chapter or whatever to protect that false promise of including all future content with ESO plus membership is nonsense. DLC means downloadable content, for my $40 i dont see them sending me anything in the mail or otherwise. Time to cancel my sub buy all the DLC content whatever that means now with all the crowns i have and just purchase future DLC stuff with the crowns I have remaining.

Ender1310 · May 2017

More so then the money I feel a little duped. All future content. It would be different if they specified. Maybe I would not have subbed. Now if I unsubscribe I get none of the content as I would have to buy each dlc. All future content. Ok here's my money. All future content but this. Now I've spent all this sub money thinking it's worth it and if you unsubscribe you have to spend more money without getting your sub back. I feel betrayed and I kind of don't trust them enough to give them my money any more.

Ender1310 · May 2017

Yeah we bought the game. Then paid sub fees since said game came out. We have spent way more money then any of you. Tell subs to support game? We have supported it. That's the point.

Ender1310 · May 2017

All future content. You say this to get my money. I would have not given my money if you did not say this. It's trickery period. I would love to get enough players on board to unsubscribe. Let that revenue drop. I want an apology for being in clear. That's all. An acknowledgment that yeah we were unclear.

Ender1310 · May 2017

Value is not point. Telling me vague things to get my money is. It's duplicitous. You can't see that at all? I would not have subbed.

Ender1310 · May 2017

I see the point with value as pertaining to other games. I am meeting you. But duplicitous advertising is duplicitous advertising. That's my issue. You told me a thing and I feel like I didn't get that thing.

Tandor · May 2017

Ender1310 wrote: »

More so then the money I feel a little duped. All future content. It would be different if they specified. Maybe I would not have subbed. Now if I unsubscribe I get none of the content as I would have to buy each dlc. All future content. Ok here's my money. All future content but this. Now I've spent all this sub money thinking it's worth it and if you unsubscribe you have to spend more money without getting your sub back. I feel betrayed and I kind of don't trust them enough to give them my money any more.

You're covering two very different things.

The argument about Morrowind not being included in the subscription is clearly a valid one in that it relates to a change from the position where all future DLCs were included in the subscription. However, it was always the case that DLCs were only included for as long as you subscribed, so the fact that you have to spend more money (or, of course, use the free crowns you accrued while you subscribed) in order to continue with the DLC while unsubscribed is both unchanged and working as intended.

jkemmery · May 2017

I feel the same way as @Ender1310 about this Morrowind thing. I've been keeping up my gold subscription for, oh, well over a year now, based on the promise that eventually, all of Tamriel would be unlocked to me, and that I've been supporting the game to get to that point. Now, they release new content for the game that's NOT included in my subscription, that I have to PAY EXTRA for, if I want to enjoy it. I've loved this game, but I'm feeling it's time to get out, mostly on principle. I've spent a lot of money on this game, because when there was something in the crown store I wanted, I would buy extra crowns to get it. I feel ZOS has cheated me. It honestly makes me not want to buy any Bethesda games at all anymore. My guess is that eventually the Morrowind content will be included in ESO. Then everyone will feel cheated except those of us who chose not to participate in the first place.

Giraffon · May 2017

So glad I stopped my sub after first year (had to get that Tiger). I've spent just as much money as anyone that's subscribed, because I've purchased all content as it came out. Morrowind is just another DLC as far as I'm concerned. No big deal to me. That said, I think any ESO+ Member that purchases Morrowind should get 3 months free membership with their purchase. That would basically make it free to them and would be a good PR move.

I wonder why their own people can't come up with these ideas. They should give me some free in game stuff for the awesome and free advise I'm providing.

Elsonso · May 2017

Tulach wrote: »

Wow I just found out about this. Ive been ESO plus since they launched it. I was under the impression that all future content was included as that really was the only reason for doing that over buying little content packs instead. I dont mind paying for a game at all. I paid for my Everquest Sub for what 15+ years and had no issue with it. I do however have an issue with a company telling you all future content is included with your sub then it isnt.

The thin veil they are calling this an expansion or new Chapter or whatever to protect that false promise of including all future content with ESO plus membership is nonsense. DLC means downloadable content, for my $40 i dont see them sending me anything in the mail or otherwise. Time to cancel my sub buy all the DLC content whatever that means now with all the crowns i have and just purchase future DLC stuff with the crowns I have remaining.

I think that the bottom line is that the ESO Plus/DLC/Crown Store/Crown Crates business model is not sustainable without changes.

It is not unusual for MMO games to have expansions, and that is really the model that ZOS is using with Morrowind, no matter what they call them, what people think of it, and what people get for the money. It is not unusual for expansions to be an "extra charge", and not available in the cash store or via subscription. Going this direction is familiar to both the players and the studio/publisher.

As a long term subscriber to whatever subscription plan they have offered, I have always expected them to do an expansion to the game. Even when they said they were not going to go that route. I have never expected that the expansion would be covered by subscription. I always expected that I would be spending $30-60 for the expansion through an additional purchase. This expectation is simply based on the fact that Bethesda (publisher) is used to selling "boxes" and it is natural for them to go in that direction.

So, none of this is terribly surprising to me. What does surprise me is the frequency at which they intend to roll out these expansions. With a one year cycle, it means that Chapter content will never be more than a "large DLC pack", simply because there is a limit to what they can do in a year, while also making three quarterly DLCs every year. I expected that it would be 18 months to 2 years between expansions so that they would have a lot more content in them.

None of this is part of my ESO Plus subscription calculation. I have always said that the way to deal with ESO Plus is that, when someone subscribes, they get what they are paying for on that day. This significantly reduces the chance of being disappointed by changes in the future. If someone is depending on them adding to the subscription benefits (new DLC) during the term of the subscription in order to justify the subscription, I question whether they should be subscribing.

If someone wants to take the risk and bet on them releasing DLC worth paying for, estimate the cost of that DLC content, and do some sort of expense-return calculation to justify a subscription, that is fine. However, nothing in the future is guaranteed, even stuff that is "promised", so depending on future DLC is a big risk, and one that really needs to be accepted before subscribing.

MakoFore wrote: »

i pay not half that much a year to ZOS and i spend 2 hours a day having a great old time. no not everything is perfect- they need help- but as a contributor to the game- i feel it my duty to be a part of that- thru constructive criticism, support- and yes- financial support. if you think that s too much to ask- then you area broke ass

I do not feel it is my obligation to pay ZOS money. Now that I have access to the game, I maintain that it is a free to play game and there is no obligation for me to pay them any more money. Every penny I now spend on the game is because what I am getting from them is greater than what I am paying them. The moment that balance changes, I will simply stop spending my money, whether I continue to play or not. From that point on, I play for free until the balance changes.

ESO is one of the top 10 best computer games I have ever played, and as such I am still getting a lot more from this game than I have paid them. ZOS does not get my money, time, or feedback through altruism.

Azyle1 · May 2017

No one understands how Xpacs work do they?

It's an MMO. WoW charges $60 or w/e for every big Xpac. What is the issue here?

Just because people don't understand how MMO's work doesn't make it "evil".

Edit: I'm reading through posts and people are freaking out.

You realize that other MMO's (WoW, FFXIV for example) charge $15 a month just to play (mandatory) and THEN charge you for the xpac. ESO plus really gives you a lot of nice extra things for paying, that the Devs really do not have to do. There is a difference here between DLC and a major Xpac.

majulook · May 2017

IMHO now that they are creating Expansions that are not included with ESO+, the new DLC's may not be all that impressive.

F7sus4 · May 2017

P3ZZL3 wrote: »

That's it, I'm done. Have fun folks but I'm certainly not paying for this.

Allow me to quickly remind you, who/what you are according to ZOS:

Galwylin · May 2017

Azyle1 wrote: »

It's an MMO. WoW charges $60 or w/e for every big Xpac. What is the issue here?

Maybe you should go back and read exactly what you get with a WoW expansion. Because even if you buy Morrowind, you still don't get the future DLCs promised without subscribing. So for the price of an expansion plus a subscription and we still don't get a fraction of what you do with a WoW expansion. And that's assuming these promises last longer than the last ones. How can we be sure we aren't going to have to shell out another $40 for the rest of this "expansion". We don't. It still isn't clear exactly what they consider a DLC. Shadows of the Hist type? What if you don't buy Morrowind and just subscribe. Are these promised DLCs still out of your reach because you didn't buy Morrowind. We don't know a whole lot so all we have to go on is the past actions of ZOS and they don't speak favorably.

Azyle1 · May 2017

Galwylin wrote: »

Azyle1 wrote: »

It's an MMO. WoW charges $60 or w/e for every big Xpac. What is the issue here?

Maybe you should go back and read exactly what you get with a WoW expansion. Because even if you buy Morrowind, you still don't get the future DLCs promised without subscribing. So for the price of an expansion plus a subscription and we still don't get a fraction of what you do with a WoW expansion. And that's assuming these promises last longer than the last ones. How can we be sure we aren't going to have to shell out another $40 for the rest of this "expansion". We don't. It still isn't clear exactly what they consider a DLC. Shadows of the Hist type? What if you don't buy Morrowind and just subscribe. Are these promised DLCs still out of your reach because you didn't buy Morrowind. We don't know a whole lot so all we have to go on is the past actions of ZOS and they don't speak favorably.

It doesn't matter. It is how the model works. I never said ZoS does it well. It is an Xpac. You have to pay like how every other MMO does it. I'm not going to compare content, because we will have to see how this pans out. But saying, "It may not have that much content" doesn't matter because from how the model works... its pretty common.

Trust me, I have played all the WoW Xpacs and I'm sure this won't be on that level. But, it is the business model they chose to go with and it works.

ShotStride · May 2017

I'm honestly content with paying $40 for Morrowind if there is enough content to justify it. I just think if they included a couple of months of ESO+ that it would have a ton more value for the $40 price tag.

Morgha_Kul · May 2017

Honestly, I have NO PROBLEM paying for expansions. When Morrowind came out (the original), I had to pay for Tribunal, and I had to pay for Bloodmoon.

You can't expect to get major expansions for free. Frankly, I'm surprised they gave us so much for free as it is.

Ender1310 · May 2017

Okay. Lots of focus on value. I get it. Not going to go into value. That is not why the tears. Tears are because of ethos. I subbed because I honestly thought (and I am not alone) all future content meant all future content. If I in sub after falsely being promised all future content I get none of it. Making the moneys that I have doled out pointless. Can we stop with value? If you tell me hey these beans turn into a magick bean stalk and instead they turn in to a tree we're you honest with me when you sold them?

Elsonso · May 2017

Ender1310 wrote: »

Okay. Lots of focus on value. I get it. Not going to go into value. That is not why the tears. Tears are because of ethos. I subbed because I honestly thought (and I am not alone) all future content meant all future content. If I in sub after falsely being promised all future content I get none of it. Making the moneys that I have doled out pointless. Can we stop with value? If you tell me hey these beans turn into a magick bean stalk and instead they turn in to a tree we're you honest with me when you sold them?

You are correct that value is subjective.

However, let me be honest about "all future content." Any company that, after less than a year, decides to pack in the subscription business model and roll out a cash store business model cannot really be trusted with statements about "all future content". At what point does someone start thinking that, this time, they really mean it when they say they are going to do something, long term?

Yolokin_Swagonborn · May 2017

Ender1310 wrote: »

Okay. Lots of focus on value. I get it. Not going to go into value. That is not why the tears. Tears are because of ethos. I subbed because I honestly thought (and I am not alone) all future content meant all future content. If I in sub after falsely being promised all future content I get none of it. Making the moneys that I have doled out pointless. Can we stop with value? If you tell me hey these beans turn into a magick bean stalk and instead they turn in to a tree we're you honest with me when you sold them?

A lot of people feel ZOS isn't keeping its promises or being honest with us. That is the main issue, not the amount of money they are charging.

To everyone who is saying "Dude its just $40" ask yourself why you can't buy it with crowns. Since its slightly bigger than wrothgar, and wrothgar was 3000 crowns, this should be 4500 or something.

Khyras · May 2017

ZOS apologists make me wanna puke my guts out. If they said "all future content" it means just that, otherwise they would of said "all furure content except expansions" . They didnt, hence it means they lied and its not all future content, stop justifying their dishonesty while they are ruthlessly milking their playerbase and with such an obvious scam even *** could see through it.

LadyLavina · May 2017

Khyras wrote: »

ZOS apologists make me wanna puke my guts out. If they said "all future content" it means just that, otherwise they would of said "all furure content except expansions" . They didnt, hence it means they lied and its not all future content, stop justifying their dishonesty while they are ruthlessly milking their playerbase and with such an obvious scam even *** could see through it.

This 100%

Elsonso · May 2017

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Ender1310 wrote: »

Okay. Lots of focus on value. I get it. Not going to go into value. That is not why the tears. Tears are because of ethos. I subbed because I honestly thought (and I am not alone) all future content meant all future content. If I in sub after falsely being promised all future content I get none of it. Making the moneys that I have doled out pointless. Can we stop with value? If you tell me hey these beans turn into a magick bean stalk and instead they turn in to a tree we're you honest with me when you sold them?

A lot of people feel ZOS isn't keeping its promises or being honest with us. That is the main issue, not the amount of money they are charging.

To everyone who is saying "Dude its just $40" ask yourself why you can't buy it with crowns. Since its slightly bigger than wrothgar, and wrothgar was 3000 crowns, this should be 4500 or something.

Simple. They don't want ESO Plus Crowns to be used to buy Morrowind. They want to be able to do pre-order bonuses, like the Collector's Edition. They want to be able to sell copies of the game for $100 by including maps, books, and figures. They like to sell "boxes".

JasonSilverSpring · May 2017

Khyras wrote: »

ZOS apologists make me wanna puke my guts out. If they said "all future content" it means just that, otherwise they would of said "all furure content except expansions" . They didnt, hence it means they lied and its not all future content, stop justifying their dishonesty while they are ruthlessly milking their playerbase and with such an obvious scam even *** could see through it.

I am not an apologist. I am not a fan of the change but they gave us nearly six months notice. So, in my opinion there is no scam.

People have had plenty of time to change or cancel subscription. ESO+ is for current content not future content. No one has ever had to subscribe in advance for DLC content.

I am sure part of it was to drive up revenue and part of it was the fact that there would be issues with losing access to Warden if someone let ESO+ expire.

DragonBound · May 2017

LadyLavina wrote: »

Khyras wrote: »

ZOS apologists make me wanna puke my guts out. If they said "all future content" it means just that, otherwise they would of said "all furure content except expansions" . They didnt, hence it means they lied and its not all future content, stop justifying their dishonesty while they are ruthlessly milking their playerbase and with such an obvious scam even *** could see through it.

This 100%

We are not apologists everyone that has seen my posts in the forums knows for a fact that I did not like the sound of many changes in the pts, but this entire morrowind should be included in eso plus is still nonsense, they never lied about this. This is an official an expansion the issue is many of you are not interested in battlegrounds or a new class, and that is ok but you must remember it costs quite a bit of money to add all that content with a new class and battlegrounds so you must buy the entire package to get it.

That is just the way it is and making 50 posts about it will not change it, they cannot make that for free so you have to accept it or find something else to play.

Linaleah · May 2017

corrosivechains wrote: »

Maybe you should go back and read exactly what you get with a WoW expansion. Because even if you buy Morrowind, you still don't get the future DLCs promised without subscribing. So for the price of an expansion plus a subscription and we still don't get a fraction of what you do with a WoW expansion. And that's assuming these promises last longer than the last ones. How can we be sure we aren't going to have to shell out another $40 for the rest of this "expansion". We don't. It still isn't clear exactly what they consider a DLC. Shadows of the Hist type? What if you don't buy Morrowind and just subscribe. Are these promised DLCs still out of your reach because you didn't buy Morrowind. We don't know a whole lot so all we have to go on is the past actions of ZOS and they don't speak favorably.

you don't get to play WoW at all without subscribing. so the main difference is that you can keep playing ESo without paying for subscription, while in WoW - subscription is mandatory. moreover, THEY HAVE CONFIRMED OVER A MONTH AGO, that all future DLC will NOT require morrowind. you will STILL have acess to 3 DLC packs a year, even if you never buy morrowind or any other expansion

Khyras · May 2017

Morrowind "expansion" is basically DLC + new class and battlegrounds. What they should have done/ should do is allow people to buy DLC for crowns and sell new class separately for money only, to people who find it interesting enough to buy it.

On to the battlegrounds: NO MMORPG IN HISTORY, NOT EVEN F2P ONES, HAS EVER REQUIRED FROM THEIR PLAYERS TO BUY EXPANSION/DLC TO BE ABLE TO PLAY BGs!!!! Either battlegrounds were there on launch or were later introduced for free to players who bought the game and paid subscription. What we have here with ESO is this: You bought the game+ paid sub since launch and you cannot play BGs unless you pay for "expansion". And some people have the nerve to even try to justify this BS.

They can get away with this for one reason only: players allow them to get away with it and many even justify their immoral, dishonest behavior . This F2P style fleecing has been going on from the launch of this game ( paywall for imperial race + 1 gold for a horse or 7 k gold if you dont pay real money - REALLY)?
Morrowind is just a continuation of that policy and the game has suffered for it because significant number of players have left the game because of it and, more recently, unsubbed and ZOS apologists are complicit in this by making stupid, completely unjustified excuses for them. Wtf do you care if people are dissatisfied with Morrowind being unpurchasable with crowns, you did not pay for their sub nor is the money from the sales going into your pocket, do you have stock options in Bethesda or something?

Should you not demand more for your money instead of less, should you not be on the side of your fellow players who possibly cannot afford both sub and buying "expansion" , instead of fighting on the side of greedy publishers, who don't even care if you exist or not and would sell their own mother for extra profit.

Game industry has become more and more greedy and we the players as a whole get the increasingly worse, low quality, low content, unfinished and increasingly buggy AND more expensive games because of people like you and i for one am sick of it and sick of you and your idiotic excuses.

Elsonso · May 2017

Khyras wrote: »

On to the battlegrounds: NO MMORPG IN HISTORY, NOT EVEN F2P ONES, HAS EVER REQUIRED FROM THEIR PLAYERS TO BUY EXPANSION/DLC TO BE ABLE TO PLAY BGs!!!! Either battlegrounds were there on launch or were later introduced for free to players who bought the game and paid subscription

That is not what is happening here. Say what you want about Bethesda Softworks, but they know how to sell games, and they are damned good at it.

Khyras wrote: »

Morrowind is just a continuation of that policy and the game has suffered for it because significant number of players have left the game because of it and, more recently, unsubbed and ZOS apologists are complicit in this by making stupid, completely unjustified excuses for them. Wtf do you care if people are dissatisfied with Morrowind being unpurchasable with crowns, you did not pay for their sub nor is the money from the sales going into your pocket, do you have stock options in Bethesda or something?

It is easy to get caught up in the current hysteria, so I am sure it seems that way right now. However, there is really nothing in this update that is going to be driving the bulk of the players away from the game. Quite the opposite, there is every reason to expect that it will attract new players to the game and existing player adoption will be good. Morrowind will sell a lot, both new and upgrade.

Why? Two reasons. ESO is already a successful title. ZOS has taken the game from being a punching bag to being a successful MMORPG. Some people have a hard time wrapping their head around that concept

, but it is one reason why Morrowind will be successful.

While Morrowind is described as optional, and it is, the fact that it is bundled with the base game means that Morrowind replaces Tamriel Unlimited as the brand leader. Every player that purchases the lastest version of ESO, instead of last year's Gold Edition of ESO, or the 2015 Tamriel Unlimited version of ESO, gets both the base game and Morrowind. This is why Morrowind is not a DLC. It is almost not an expansion. It is closer to a brand new version of the base game. Before long, it won't be that the Morrowind players have an optional expansion to the base game. Instead, it will be that the Tamriel Unlimited/Gold Edition people have a limited version of Morrowind.