Morrowind...and ESO+

ljb2k5_ESO

dimensional wrote: »

old_mufasa wrote: »

SaRuZ wrote: »

It's an "Expansion Pack." NOT a DLC. Stop being a cheap ass and buy it.

Who the hell is being cheap.. we are spending 179.00 a year playing this game.. more then the you free loaders are paying just for your one time purchases..

This statement is so sad. Imagine feeling this entitled.

When people pay for something they ARE entitled you dolt. L2Language.

DaveMoeDee

Lord_Empyrean wrote: »

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

Lord_Empyrean wrote: »

I was thinking the same thing i just started playing and enjoy the sub with all it's perks. I played in WOW for ages and let me tell you an expansion was not just one swath of land it was an entire map with several zoned areas. That is certainly worthy of an expansion. Even in Ultima Online it was not just one capital and several towns it was huge pieces of land like the size of two or three regular zones in the game today.

Since we know very little I am waiting to see what it is first. Still enjoying the content and haven't scratched the surface yet. Haven't even started trials or capped my CP.

Is one class (not interested) one city, one raid and new PVP worth $40...it actually isn't. Not for people subscribing. Just starting on the DLC's and from what is mentioned thus far in there marketing this is just another DLC; or to be generous several DLC's in one. Warden DLC Storyline, Battle Grounds DLC and Morrowind DLC.

This game for it's age has tons of content but what is being offered is what should be coming out anyways. As a corporation they must feed the board and investors. It's the world we live in.

Eventually when i get all my shinnies on the current game or am enticed by more information i may take the plunge but unlike other expansions over the 20 years i have been playing this is not very enticing.

The game is great as it is and I am thoroughly enjoying it.

Cya!

I have to disagree. If someone is paying $15/month for crafting bags, $40 does not seem like much for a new class and the amount of new narrative included and Battlegrounds. I have no idea where you get the "one city" from, as number of cities is an absurd way to measure content. Subbers already think what they have been receiving is worth $180/year (and we have only been receiving about 3 DLC a year anyway), so $40 is not an unreasonable amount for them to spend on the game for that amount of additional content.

The price of the Morrowind DLC has never been the issue. It has always been the bait and switch. ZOS marketed ESO+ as guaranteeing that players would always have access to the entire game, then they reneged on that claim and coined the phrases "crown store DLC" and "chapter." People are annoyed less with Morrowind than with the false advertisement that left them owning no DLC after paying a lot and also not having Morrowind.

I wouldn't get hung up on land masses. Who cares how many landmasses are in a DLC/expansion? What matters is the content within the geography. People also keep mentioning nonsense like the geographic size of Morrowind being large even though ZOS already mentioned you can't access a large portion of it where the volcano is.

SO we disagree to agree. $40 is not worth an Expansion/DLC when it should be included. If you think size doesn't matter you are wrong.



Bottom line they need more money and we have to shell it out. Many MMO's go this way which leads to lost sunscriptions and failure. ESO is not immune to this. Give the customers garbage and you get garbage the PS4 expansion is lukewarm at best and not even cross platform, so they need to recoup that failure. We have both versions in this house and the world is empty in comparison to PC. As far as Morrowind I will make that decision when I find out more about this upcoming DLC. I am not against a good money sink and supporting a game studio but don't advertise something and back out of it. It's pretty simple.

Unlike others I am not upset just sympathetic to the cry and understand it fully!

Cya!

It isn't included. That is reality. So the question is whether that much content is worth $40 to someone willing to pay $150 for crafting bags. I would guess, "Yes."

I get that some feel betrayed by the bait and switch, but before crafting bags, people were essentially paying $45 for each DLC. One quarter they paid $45 in sub money and got just 2 dungeons. The next two quarters they paid $90 total for nothing. They are paying $135 just for crafting bags over 9 months. $40 is small change. Don't conflate the moral argument with the value. Many (former) subbers do not want to pay the $40 out of principle, not because Morrowind isn't worth it to them.

Jollygoodusername

Let's share some information with one another about who and how to contact the 'execs' from Zenimax with our mutual disgust. If there's one thing I've learned in my years of corporate servitude and management, it's that big wigs HATE to be bothered by angry customers and will literally hire teams of mitigation representatives, known as customer support in many cases, to keep them at bay.

Jollygoodusername

Just cancelled my subscription as well. Spent all my saved up and now useless crowns on crate casino. >_< Can't even log into the damned NA server and these guys have the audacity to ask me for more $$.

Vulture051

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Hm.
Happy to pay if the content is humungous.
If I find out, however, that I'm being charged for a new Orsinium plus a class I'm not playing, we're gonna have a problem.
Expansion looks good so far, so keep it up!

That's more or less what you're getting. Technically the land is 40% larger but with how surface area is calculated 40% is not going to feel or look a whole lot bigger.

It's a dlc not a bloody expansion. Hell even they aren't calling it an expansion. They're calling it a "chapter" because calling it a dlc means ESO+ gets it for free and calling it an expansion would be blatant horse****.

ashenb14_ESO

FlaviusVoyage wrote: »

Expansion, DLC, what is the difference? Both include additional content.

The dif? you have to pay cash for expantions, dlc you can get with a sub or by buying it outright....and you can buy it with crowns saved up from a sub, zos wont let you buy morrowind with crowns because they want your cash money, more of it if you have sub and own the dlc already...

in short, they are nerfing all current classes, and forcing you to buy dlc..i mean an expansion to gain access to an un-nerfed class and all the map content... who wouldnt consider spending 40-60-80bucks on top of their sub to gain access to the one class that wont force you to spend 90% of your attack time doing heavy attacks to regen....

it should be great, after all, zos can do no wrong...ask the fanbois...

kinda waiting for them to make the whole game as hard as gaining Vet Ranks was.... that would make the game soooo much better *eyeroll*

dovakiin5574

What I'm hearing is.... "I bought this house, I get furniture for free when I pay the furnisher $15 a month. Because of this, I think I am entitled to get a porch added on for free as well." Guys.... It's a game, you signed up for it and poured out your money for it. You should know the terms before signing up for anything. One thing I will say personally is: I think Morrowind is well worth the money and ESO+ is also still going to be worth it. Just my two cents anyways

ashenb14_ESO

GawdSB wrote: »

lololol

Why am I subscribed to ESO+ if you can just put *** outside the scope of what I get and don't get.

as the buy above you makes pretty clear, you shoudnt be able to buy the dlc with crowns, shouldnt be able to buy the expantion(and cant)with crowns, sure, they are bought with real money, but who cares, thats money zos already has, not new money you should be required to give them for the expantion.....thats why the 7500 crowns i have saved up should never be useable to buy the expantion...

if they make future dlc(not expantions) require morrowind or later expantions, they can put even more pressure on players to give them more cash(since....this stuff shouldnt be in the crown store...it dosnt generate direct revenue for them....)

lovely...

https://youtu.be/fK5D32QGsy0

Jacozilla

Malamar1229 wrote: »

Joe wants to buy a collector's Ball that is priced at 8 bucks. Joe spends an hour arguing/haggling with the seller to bring the price down to 6 bucks. Joe is happy that he thinks he saved 2 bucks. Minimum wage is Joe's state is 8 bucks/hour. Joe is actually in the deficit by 6 bucks.


FFS we are talking about a price that is equivalent to a case of Mountain Dew, 2 bags of Dorritos, and 2 hours of a late night spank-per-view program.

39 pages over like 40 bucks FFS

Yes - FFS, we get it that you are not a principled person. To you, as long as the fiscal impact is relatively low enough, people are free to rip off, scam, and/or treat you in whatever way and you'll happily lap it up. Ok, good - FFS we get it. You enjoy this for some FFS reason.

Other people though care less about whether it is a cup of coffee or a vending machine purchase - being misled, if at all - I am not saying it was or was not, but open to how it could be interpreted that way when ZOS implied at least fairly indirectly that all future content was included with ESO+

If they had just said the keyword of all 'current' content, this would be a total non-issue. But it is there for all to see historically - they literally said all 'future' content, and hence left themselves open to at least the reasonable interpretation that is being debated now.

Do I think expacs are completely normal? Of course they are! Do I think ZOS marketing was amateurish in stating the ESO+ benefits they way they did? Yes of course. One simple word - all CURRENT content is included for free for ESO+ subs would have made the entire thing a non-issue.

But however you feel or believe, my opinion and that is all it is - personal opinion for me only - is that at minimum ZOS left themselves wide open to criticism and reasonable contrary interpretation of what they hell they meant when they said all ESO+ subs would include all 'future' content. (and what the heck a DLC was when there was no prior existing expac called an expac to distinguish their marketing mumbo of DLC vs expac)

So FFS OP, yea - if your wallet is big enough, and the impact therefore small enough to you - a case of mountain dew - we get it, rip you off and you are totally fine. Small peanuts, who cares.

But also FFS - it just makes you look stupid and non-principled to those that object to how they are treated vs how much fiscal impact that treatment has.

Excabor

Jollygoodusername wrote: »

Let's share some information with one another about who and how to contact the 'execs' from Zenimax with our mutual disgust. If there's one thing I've learned in my years of corporate servitude and management, it's that big wigs HATE to be bothered by angry customers and will literally hire teams of mitigation representatives, known as customer support in many cases, to keep them at bay.

Try this :
A class action, class suit, or representative action is a type of lawsuit where one of the parties is a group of people who are represented collectively by a member of that group.

Wolfshead

Come on people get off your high horse about this if this would have be World of Warcraft you guys would not even dare act like cry babys take World of Warcraft you have pay them a subscribe and guess what you have pay for expansion as well when new one come out the dont get expansion for free in WoW.

So why would ESO gave us Free copy of morrowind for you what pay a subscribe? Serious you pay same if not more money play WoW but you dont see people there whine about so honest people get with program other you buy morrowind or you dont for fact is that it is cost everyone real money to buy morrowind no matter you paying for subscribe or not.

Jollygoodusername

Wolfshead wrote: »

Come on people get off your high horse about this if this would have be World of Warcraft you guys would not even dare act like cry babys take World of Warcraft you have pay them a subscribe and guess what you have pay for expansion as well when new one come out the dont get expansion for free in WoW.

So why would ESO gave us Free copy of morrowind for you what pay a subscribe? Serious you pay same if not more money play WoW but you dont see people there whine about so honest people get with program other you buy morrowind or you dont for fact is that it is cost everyone real money to buy morrowind no matter you paying for subscribe or not.

Even with a free account I quit playing WoW due to the ridiculous expansions. The quality was gone after WotLK to the point that I couldn't be bothered to install a free Panda expansion...don't even recall the name it was so long ago. Difference here is that I paid $140 for this game and a sub, then another $77 for sub while I wasn't even playing >_< I mean I literally supported them without having played ESO. Its been a year now and I only have a lvl 26 character and 1% content completion, not even main story done yet. BUT I do enjoy the music, atmosphere of Tamriel and love exploring the land. Still not worth paying for another DLC that's been renamed 'chapter' in lieu of expansion.

zakriel

I've bought the gold edition of the game last year on a steam sale. I've enjoyed the game so much that i've decided to support them with my subscription, even thou i had all the dlc from the start. I've found the crowns i received worthless, as for me nothing in the crown store seems interesting (or worthy to spend the crowns on). I'm not a long time player like most of the people who subbed since day 1, but i can understand their point.

My suggestion is the following: don't give the expansion free for eso+ members, but let them buy it with crowns. (ex.: 3500-5000 crown should be a reasonable price, as it requires 3 months of sub, which is roughly 45 euro)

That way they can keep their subs (longer duration= more money) and maybe give a chance for other players who never payed for it a chance to try it out (maintaining the illusion of not paying for it).

Personally ,i've cancelled my sub the moment they announced the "morrowind-modell" and stopped playing till it is somehow solved. (even thou i enjoyed the game, its not hard to live without it )

Oh, and the only 2 reason Wow players are willing to pay for an expansion :
1 you can pay subscrption via ingame gold, which is relatively easy to farm. (Making the craftingbag like that would decimate sub numbers, i can garantee that)
2 they are getting minor patches and like 2 raids (which they payed for by buying the expansion in the first place) and 0 extra content ( "dlc") till the next one.

Comparing it to wow for me is like saying that "if i buy the expansion, i'm entitled for all the dlc for free till the next one (aka bad quality dlc as you won't pay for it), and i can play the game for free if i play it enough"

This is my personal opinion, thanks for reading it, if you did

klowdy1

Martan wrote: »

I don't see the problem here. World of Warcraft among other MMORPG's requires you to purchase all new expansions along with paying a non-mandatory monthly fee.

It is a mandatory sub, can't play without it.

Huyen

Everyone is still complaining about that they have to buy Morrowind...You want to know what my biggest waste of money is? Its defo not Morrowind, but the damn WoW expansions. 13 euro's a month + 1 65 euro's expansion every 2 years, and the best part: game got worse with every damn expansion. At least in ESO they are adding some much needed stuff like balancing the CP for players with lower CP, and a new class. So stop whining, or get out.

Cpt_Teemo

Beaveri wrote: »

Now I had to cancel my ESO+ membership. Sorry Zeni, it is not giving much value anymore....

Aren't they adding more bank space in with Morrowind ESO + ontop of everything else including the 1500 crowns which is already 15$?

zakriel

klowdy1 wrote: »

Martan wrote: »

I don't see the problem here. World of Warcraft among other MMORPG's requires you to purchase all new expansions along with paying a non-mandatory monthly fee.

It is a mandatory sub, can't play without it.

I've used to play a lot when they implemented the option to buy tokens (subscription) with in-game money. With the auchion house of wow, it takes no time to get the gold (2 days grind with some luck). I've never had to pay for subscription from that point and i usually made enough for 2 months every 3 weeks just by playing the game casually.

Nyladreas

P3ZZL3 wrote: »

Am I right in saying, that the ESO+ players will still get everything - just not the collection edition addons like the bear, horse, gear, etc....

£40.00 for the expansion - after 2 years of ESO Plus Membership.

Edit1: YOU CAN NOT BUY THIS EXPANSION WITH CROWNS!!!! ONLY CASH.

Edit2: Another question @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_MattFiror
You specifically mention, in the ESO+ Purchase page, that I will receive ALL Future DLC Content. How will I be receiving ALL of this future DLC Content, when it's locked behind a paywall being Morrowind. You do not exclude additional content via expansions - so legally - I think you have to provide the Morrowind access from a DLC perspective (Disclaimer - not a lawyer)

Edit3: @ZOS_GinaBruno Has stated there will be an update for ESO+ Subscribers tomorrow. We shall see.


That's it, I'm done. Have fun folks but I'm certainly not paying for this.

Because it's NOT a DLC. It's an EXPANSION . When will you people finally learn to understand the difference?! In case of MORROWIND the TOS page doesn't even refer to it for that simple fact!!!

I'm actually happy people like you are mad and leaving, there's no room for spoonfed people like you who just want everything handed to them because of their sense of entitlement and demotivate hard working people in the process!

Either you support ESO with your sub or you don't! It doesn't entirely entitle you to literally everything ZOS does with their game if not applicable!

What the hell people seriously! You freaking spoiled kids have no F-ing idea how hard and constantly stressful development can be, especially when you're under pressure of both your supervisors and customers. (Yeah I'm mad, and rightfully so!)

I've been a sub since I started playing, I will always continue to do so because it's not only for my own personal gain but also for the support of the entire company and business!

I would gladly buy Morrowind again even if it sucked because the devs deserve it!

Keep it up ZOS and forget about these horrible customers! You guys are doing great and I believe in you! While I do agree the game needs HUGE improvements I trust that you're trying to do the best within your possibilities!

And to you, dear pissed off entitled players, GOOD RIDDANCE!

@P3ZZL3

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_MattFiror I would gladly join you guys if you were hiring and I had more valuable development and IT experience. For the first time in my life I'm finally satisfied with a game for what it has to offer and I fully understand how fresh and in need of tweaking it still is!

Inb4 trolls calling me a Blindfolded Fanboy for genuinely enjoying a game!

zakriel

Huyen wrote: »

Everyone is still complaining about that they have to buy Morrowind...You want to know what my biggest waste of money is? Its defo not Morrowind, but the damn WoW expansions. 13 euro's a month + 1 65 euro's expansion every 2 years, and the best part: game got worse with every damn expansion. At least in ESO they are adding some much needed stuff like balancing the CP for players with lower CP, and a new class. So stop whining, or get out.

My point was that you can play wow without paying real money for a subscription (with in-game gold) and has "free" dlcs, but i'd still prefer to pay monthly for eso (as a supporter) to enjoy the full content (even if i pay more on the long run) if i don't have to cross paywalls like morrowind. (in worse case yearly like in wow)

If you let them force you to pay extra for the expansions even with long sub times, that'll result in more frequent and worse ones later on, just like in wow.

raglau

DoShazarr wrote: »

P3ZZL3 wrote: »

Am I right in saying, that the ESO+ players will still get everything - just not the collection edition addons like the bear, horse, gear, etc....

£40.00 for the expansion - after 2 years of ESO Plus Membership.

Edit1: YOU CAN NOT BUY THIS EXPANSION WITH CROWNS!!!! ONLY CASH.

Edit2: Another question @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_MattFiror
You specifically mention, in the ESO+ Purchase page, that I will receive ALL Future DLC Content. How will I be receiving ALL of this future DLC Content, when it's locked behind a paywall being Morrowind. You do not exclude additional content via expansions - so legally - I think you have to provide the Morrowind access from a DLC perspective (Disclaimer - not a lawyer)

Edit3: @ZOS_GinaBruno Has stated there will be an update for ESO+ Subscribers tomorrow. We shall see.


That's it, I'm done. Have fun folks but I'm certainly not paying for this.

Because it's NOT a DLC. It's an EXPANSION .

Take it you've not been on the PTS beta then?

Cpt_Teemo

praglaud wrote: »

DoShazarr wrote: »

P3ZZL3 wrote: »

Am I right in saying, that the ESO+ players will still get everything - just not the collection edition addons like the bear, horse, gear, etc....

£40.00 for the expansion - after 2 years of ESO Plus Membership.

Edit1: YOU CAN NOT BUY THIS EXPANSION WITH CROWNS!!!! ONLY CASH.

Edit2: Another question @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_MattFiror
You specifically mention, in the ESO+ Purchase page, that I will receive ALL Future DLC Content. How will I be receiving ALL of this future DLC Content, when it's locked behind a paywall being Morrowind. You do not exclude additional content via expansions - so legally - I think you have to provide the Morrowind access from a DLC perspective (Disclaimer - not a lawyer)

Edit3: @ZOS_GinaBruno Has stated there will be an update for ESO+ Subscribers tomorrow. We shall see.


That's it, I'm done. Have fun folks but I'm certainly not paying for this.

Because it's NOT a DLC. It's an EXPANSION .

Take it you've not been on the PTS beta then?

Even if he did, you signed a NDA which can get you in trouble if you hint about facts.

Yolokin_Swagonborn

DoShazarr wrote: »

Because it's NOT a DLC. It's an EXPANSION . When will you people finally learn to understand the difference?!

Never because there is no difference. ZOS just wanted an extra $40.

DoShazarr wrote: »

I would gladly buy Morrowind again even if it sucked because the devs deserve it!

Well, you might get that opportunity! Be careful what you wish for!

Tandor

I'm amazed it's taken 40 pages and 3 months to reach a point where some people still don't get the simple truth of it.

If it's worth it to you, you'll buy Morrowind.

If it isn't, you won't.

If you have a problem with the way ZOS are running things, you'll play something else.

If you don't have a problem with the way ZOS are running things, you'll stay - whether as an ESO+ subscriber or not.

Can we move on now?

Yolokin_Swagonborn

Tandor wrote: »

I'm amazed it's taken 40 pages and 3 months to reach a point where some people still don't get the simple truth of it.

If it's worth it to you, you'll buy Morrowind.

If it isn't, you won't.

If you have a problem with the way ZOS are running things, you'll play something else.

If you don't have a problem with the way ZOS are running things, you'll stay - whether as an ESO+ subscriber or not.

Can we move on now?

No because its an issue of morality. If we just sit idly by and let game companies take advantage of us, more and more games will come out with less and less value. This trend of providing as little value as possible while continuously increasing the costs, micro-pays, pay gates etc is immoral, disgusting and there is rightly a consumer backlash.

Cpt_Teemo

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

I'm amazed it's taken 40 pages and 3 months to reach a point where some people still don't get the simple truth of it.

If it's worth it to you, you'll buy Morrowind.

If it isn't, you won't.

If you have a problem with the way ZOS are running things, you'll play something else.

If you don't have a problem with the way ZOS are running things, you'll stay - whether as an ESO+ subscriber or not.

Can we move on now?

No because its an issue of morality. If we just sit idly by and let game companies take advantage of us, more and more games will come out with less and less value. This trend of providing as little value as possible while continuously increasing the costs, micro-pays, pay gates etc is immoral, disgusting and there is rightly a consumer backlash.

No one if forcing you to buy the extra content, I'd rather pay 40$ for an expansion than 80$ for a chance at a mount in some rng crates imo.

zakriel

Tandor wrote: »

I'm amazed it's taken 40 pages and 3 months to reach a point where some people still don't get the simple truth of it.

If it's worth it to you, you'll buy Morrowind.

If it isn't, you won't.

If you have a problem with the way ZOS are running things, you'll play something else.

If you don't have a problem with the way ZOS are running things, you'll stay - whether as an ESO+ subscriber or not.

Can we move on now?

So if they find out that they can make more money by releasing an expansion every year, you'll gladly admit that you are willing to pay and take the chance away from new players to enter the game by making the entry fee higher. I mean look at MMOs like wow, there are no new players, just people who return to check out a new expansion for 2 months then leave again and the game is empty for 10 months.

Muttsmutt

it's justified. expansion is not dlc. i agree with the decision.
NOW IF THE PATCH ITSELF... was not such a huge nerfhammer...

Tandor

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

I'm amazed it's taken 40 pages and 3 months to reach a point where some people still don't get the simple truth of it.

If it's worth it to you, you'll buy Morrowind.

If it isn't, you won't.

If you have a problem with the way ZOS are running things, you'll play something else.

If you don't have a problem with the way ZOS are running things, you'll stay - whether as an ESO+ subscriber or not.

Can we move on now?

No because its an issue of morality. If we just sit idly by and let game companies take advantage of us, more and more games will come out with less and less value. This trend of providing as little value as possible while continuously increasing the costs, micro-pays, pay gates etc is immoral, disgusting and there is rightly a consumer backlash.

Then if it's an issue of morality, why are you even still here? It's like another poster who resigned over the crown crates, and is back again complaining about how she won't have any more to do with Zenimax or any of its companies or games - and yet she's still posting here about trying out Morrowind.

If these were genuinely held moral principles you guys would be gone. Period. End of.

Yolokin_Swagonborn

Muttsmutt wrote: »

it's justified. expansion is not dlc. i agree with the decision.
NOW IF THE PATCH ITSELF... was not such a huge nerfhammer...

They have no confidence in their content, so they thought "hey, lets just nerf all the existing classes to people HAVE to buy the "DLC" to remain competitive.


Nightblade: Leeching strikes changed so it costs stamina to get stamina back.

Warden: Press a button get stamina and major brutality and ultimate for free.

Here is my full Writeup on it.

At best that is just terrible, hypocritical and inconsistent design. At worst, its an intentional attempt to sell boxes by nerfing the existing classes.

Tandor

zakriel wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

I'm amazed it's taken 40 pages and 3 months to reach a point where some people still don't get the simple truth of it.

If it's worth it to you, you'll buy Morrowind.

If it isn't, you won't.

If you have a problem with the way ZOS are running things, you'll play something else.

If you don't have a problem with the way ZOS are running things, you'll stay - whether as an ESO+ subscriber or not.

Can we move on now?

So if they find out that they can make more money by releasing an expansion every year, you'll gladly admit that you are willing to pay and take the chance away from new players to enter the game by making the entry fee higher. I mean look at MMOs like wow, there are no new players, just people who return to check out a new expansion for 2 months then leave again and the game is empty for 10 months.

The entry fee is the same as it's been for a while now, the cost of the game - half price at the moment according to another thread. New players aren't having anything taken away, they can even buy the Gold Edition at a bargain price with most of the DLCs included, or they can still subscribe and get everything included except Morrowind for which they pay the same price as the rest of us.