Velocious/Haunting Curse Side-by-Side Theoretical Test

jakeedmundson

Wondering how this would affect a lightning/heavy attack build.

I can't use pts because i'm on console... anyone want to give that a shot?
Instead of using force pulse and frag between curse blasts... just hold heavy attack and see what the numbers look like?
I stopped using the "frag out" build because i hate dealing with the sustain issues... just a personal preference i guess.

a heavy attack build seemed to have comparable dps output with zero sustain problems... but i relied on velocious curse for that build to work well. I think it added around 5 to 6k dps on average for me... maybe more.

AshTal

I tend to use a healing staff in PvP rather than a destro staff because it gives me burst healing without needing a pet and curse is one of my offensive abilities now like looks like its going to be garbage but I would need to swap out weapon to get a replacement attack

In PvE I see it being all but useless against all but world boss and maybe delve fights because nothing else lasts 12 seconds. I will never need to cast it more than once. I don't like the change.

Finisherofwar

Haunting is replacing the good morph of curse when it should be replacing the pet morph of curse that no one cares about. This way sorcs can keep their main pvp burst.

Vifen

For all those sceptics out there:

The difference in DPS is in the fact that you don't stay idle in between curses: no one spams *only* curse
(otherwise yes, it was a major nerf to your playstyle)

less cast time -> more damage

For 1 sec of curse cast time you do 11k
For 1 sec of haunted cast time you do 22k

You save time casting the skill over a long enough period (>24 sec) + doing other damage in that saved up time = more DPS

I calculated that even if crushing shock did 1.34k (5 time less) damage instead of 7.5k, Haunted would still be better.
So for PvE it is actually a buff !


This post was actually very insightful. For PvP I sure don't mind having more control over my burst (and the pressure is better if the test hold true (more dps)) so the only real argument against it that I see now is that it can be even easier to purge.

Unpurgable curse?

EDIT: It would be great if someone could test dps rotation in a real situation with the usual mag sorc rotation.

stevepdodson_ESO888

Minalan wrote: »

Xeven wrote: »

I'm not the OP, however the OP makes a good point which I expanded on. Haunting isn't terrible, its just different. Nobody wants to hear that though.

Denial... river in Egypt.

Why am I bothering to argue with the best sorc on all of NA? I'm just an ignorant peon compared to you, what do I know?

Denial...something you hit with dehammer

Pinja

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Pinja wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

Digiman wrote: »

lygerseye wrote: »

Alpheu5 wrote: »

Image-Free Breakdown

Parameters

• Critical chance is taken out of consideration to standardize numbers
• Weaving is taken out of consideration to standardize timing
• Crystal Fragments reliably procs every 4 abilities cast
• Abilities are cast at a rate of one per second
• Parses are 24 seconds long
• No Damage-Over-Time abilities are used

Damage Values:

• Velocious/Haunting Curse - 11,000 damage
• Force Pulse - 7,500 damage
• Crystal Fragments Proc - 18,000 damage

Parse Info (Live):

• Velocious Curse explosions: 6
• Force Pulse casts: 15
• Crystal Fragment casts: 4

Curse Damage: 66,000
Total Damage: 250,500
DPS: 10,437.50

Parse Info (U13):

• Velocious Curse explosions: 4
• Force Pulse casts: 18
• Crystal Fragment casts: 5

Curse Damage: 44,000
Total Damage: 269,000
DPS: 11,208.33

So, in short, using fewer Curses allows for more DPS from other skills, correct? Doesn't it then also reason that by eliminating the use of Curse altogether, your DPS will go even higher?

Great, you've now proven that the Curse skill is useless in any form.

QFT

This guy sums up the problem, they gutted an ability to force us into using it less often. In short its become incredibly weakened and the sorcerer is relying on other abilities to compensate.

That isn't a buff or its gutting of a central playstyle.

No. The post you quoted is woefully inaccurate.

Curse in the form provides lower DPS than live Velocious but significantly more Damage Per Cast. Since globals share the same cooldown, you will not gain higher DPS by removing PTS Curse from your rotation.

Know, No?

In 'simplifying' things this thread even omitted the actual calculation of animation timing... In the plainest sense all animations notated are instant cast magical abilities which should give them the same frequency of frag procs.
Meaning that Damage output will be decided by the fluctuation of higher damage abilities which is curse.
To all so mention,
A.Curse damage is more reliable the FP.
B.Frag bursts aren't consistent, & better adapted to the old quicker refreshing curse.
C.Haunting saves you from pausing the damage of 1 curse animation frame, but it's a whole curse lost that 1 FP won't equal 2.

Sure at 10.5s of full contact you may've gained 1k damage with haunting, but at 12s your down about 10k from when the third curse would've gone off. Don't sound bite the results.

If you're really bad at your rotation I guess what you say is true. Haunting Curse is a DPS increase no matter Frag procs or not, because you apply it at the same time as your Liquid Lightning and your Elemental Blockade. So you always prioritize Frags in an Haunting Curse rotation, because Curse is used as a DoT. Usually you never had 3 V. Curses in your normal rotation anyway, it was always 2. (LL > Blockade > Curse > 3 weaves > Curse > 2 weaves > restart).

A. True. But Haunting is still just as reliable as Velocious is, with more room for lag/human error.
B. How? Haunting Curse is used as a DoT. You cast Frags as soon as they are available, they are still prioritized, but not at the expense of Curse and a brief shift in the timing of your rotation.
C. The second damage pulse isn't lost, its still there, its the whole point of Haunting Curse, the recast.

There always were 2 Curses in a perfectly timed rotation. That doesn't change with Haunting Curse. You can a global cool down and you keep the damage of the second curse, allowing for an extra Force Pulse weave (extra chance to proc Ilambris).
Squeezing in a third V.Curse into the current live rotation is a DPS loss. I've outlined the sorc rotation just above. If you add in an extra weave and an extra Curse you lose uptime on your 2 highest DPS skills: Liquid Lightning and Elemental Blockade. So if you did use 2 extra globals (1 for FP weave, 1 for Curse cancelled with bar swap), you'd lose 2 seconds uptime on both DoTs in each rotation, resulting in a tremendous DPS loss.

"If you're really bad at your rotation" ya your going to need 'that rotation' & second ward for human error. What time with curse is lost on the back bar? If your doing the build right, it's on the damage bar. Even if you need to run the second ward which I guess your doing, put LL on the back bar because your rotating V.curse in more often. Stack curse first, take out the third weave to add extra curse & your doing more damage with VC. Even with this one narrow build your trying to tailor the effectiveness of HC around. Lighting Staff, DW elegence, & PVP sorcs do better with VC.
The fact the you don't even understand what I mean when I say burst time the frag in B. means that your one of the more 'casual' players who've never set foot in cyrodiil as a sorc. When your going for player kills you don't throwout blatant trash damage, you stack the crystal with the explosion so your opponent will be down 4 the execute damage. Frags timeout after 4s, so if you procked it on the start of HC's 6s your not doing it.
Another thing in this

(LL > Blockade > Curse > 3 weaves > Curse > 2 weaves > restart)

overly simplified 'rotation' your not even properly timing the LL & missing about 4-6s of up time on it, which is one whole it. Granted this your example of the old rotation, but plainly said if you were running it this way you were running it wrong. Further presenting that this whole change was centered around noobs who didn't know how to properly run a rotation.

Betheny

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Betheny wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

you will not gain higher DPS by removing PTS Curse from your rotation.

But you will gain higher DPS by replacing its sorry ass with another, better skill.

No. snip

*edit*

Actually I'm not going to clue you in to what and why. Haha.

Hafgar_W

Xeven wrote: »

Jsmalls wrote: »

I see names like @Xeven trying to defend this change, and I've read all they had to say, but I honestly just don't see what possible benefit this could have FOR PvP. None.

I'm really not. I freaked out just like everyone else when I read the patch note. I'm only saying that haunting is actually really good.

Basically there are two types of opponents in Cyrodiil. Ones you can burst down with a single combo, and the ones you're going to have a prolonged fight with.

I don't need Velocious to kill the first type, and 3.5 seconds on Velocious isn't much of an advantage vs the second type.

After trying it out on pts and realizing how awesome an extra front slot along with a lot more cooldowns to spare on other things, it's actually not all that bad.

Try it. You might like it.

I, for one, will certainly try the new curse out. I will admit that I almost freaked out when I saw the change, but then again, I am just the negate magic guy

However, I'm curious what you are replacing that front bar slot with. Is it Magelight? A burst ability? CC? More specifically, I would like to know what you are replacing it with when running solo or just tagging along with the zerg. Also, is the new curse still unblockable and working as intended?

Pinja

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Btw I tried out Haunting Curse now that I finally got access to PTS. I play a dual wield sorc with V.Curse on the back bar on live. So I was already used to having Curse on the back bar etc. Both explosions became unpredictable burst moments. First few tests I'm done took some getting used to. After around 30 minutes of using it in longer fights, I noticed that no one can see the second explosion coming, even if they know it is coming at some point. It much harder to keep track of two 6 sec explosions that just one 3.5 sec explosion. You have more time to set up your burst, you have more time to shield up before bursting, you have a second free explosion. I think that everyone here who is saying its absolute rubbish and that ZOS are pushing pet builds with this change, has simply no idea of what he is talking about and hasn't tested it out. Stop making assumptions, go test it.

Now fun fact. I decided to go into open world PvP with an unmoprhed Curse yesterday night on my DW sorc. Thing is... You don't need Curse to kill squishy guys, lobbies, noobs, bad players, etc. when you 1vX. An empowered frag + endless fury is enough to kill pretty much anyone who's not built correctly. In the longer encounters, well you weren't going to win them in 3.5 seconds either. Once again, here the 6 sec Curse shines simply because you have time to actually shield up while your Curse is up on that dude who's been jesus beaming you from behind that tree, then turn around and quickly burst him down. 1vX on a DW build is pretty much unharmed with a 6 sec Curse. Don't forget that I don't have the auto-recast on live, so a second explosion buys you even more time and more pressure against tougher guys. This was all on a dual wield build that is capable of pulling off 20k Frags.
Then I tried with a destro staff. Basically the same thing. You kill bad players with a Frag, a Force Pulse and a Fury. You don't need Curse for those guys, its a waste of magicka. But we all already knew that, right? Please, tell me you weren't putting Curse on every non-important/non-dangerous guy...

At first, I was pretty mad at this change. Now after actually testing it out I share @Xeven 's position entirely on this new change and am looking forward to it.

Man this argument makes so much sense -_-". Like we magic sorcerers were so overpowered in PvP we don't even need one of our main damage moves right? So HC going to fix something because we were so overpowered right? Really congrats sorcs if you go the full 100yrds on your spec you can still 1vX the trash. Not to say we didn't get better update 12 from the sorry state magic was in, but magic nightblades are still the king of the bomb, & bombs are king of the zerg. While stam still balances over magic in 1v1s. No need for a Curse Nerf just so noobs can match better in PVE, when they'll just suck even worse in PvP with the cost of the rest of us.

To mention how is a static elongated curse harder to miss, when there glowing the entire time. If anything you could be able to say it's finishing damage when you were both oblivious & skillessly ran each other out of resources hitting each others mitigation. That's not timing a burst, & having it consistently last longer does not make it more unpredictable then a quicker VC you can 'sneak' in. It's just enhancing some of the original problems of curse with sorcerers, I could Lazarus some threads & show you. If this curse is seeing better results it's either because somethings new & people were/need (to be) getting better at PvP or are delusionaly optimistic of this loosely implemented Curse Nerf.
@Pinja

Twohothardware

Haunted Curse needs to be a replacement morph for Daedric Prey, the morph NOBODY is actually using. This then gives an option for both PvP and PvE players. Doing it the other way it's nothing more than a solid nerf to MagSorc in PvP because these theoretical DPS tests do not play out in PvP environments where engagements begin and end in less time than it takes for the second explosion of Haunted Curse to even activate.

Yolokin_Swagonborn

Twohothardware wrote: »

Haunted Curse needs to be a replacement morph for Daedric Prey, the morph NOBODY is actually using. This then gives an option for both PvP and PvE players. Doing it the other way it's nothing more than a solid nerf to MagSorc in PvP because these theoretical DPS tests do not play out in PvP environments where engagements begin and end in less time than it takes for the second explosion of Haunted Curse to even activate.

This is the logical solution that almost everyone has come to.

Let's see if ZOS will listen to the community or not. However it troubles me that ZOS, when faced with community opposition, usually doubles down instead of changing course so we will likely see this.


Haunting curse: This ability now takes 12 seconds for the initial explosion but the damage is increased by 100%. It then explodes 30minutes later for 10,000 damage.
Daedric Prey: Increased the pet damage of this ability by 5%.

Minalan

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Twohothardware wrote: »

Haunted Curse needs to be a replacement morph for Daedric Prey, the morph NOBODY is actually using. This then gives an option for both PvP and PvE players. Doing it the other way it's nothing more than a solid nerf to MagSorc in PvP because these theoretical DPS tests do not play out in PvP environments where engagements begin and end in less time than it takes for the second explosion of Haunted Curse to even activate.

This is the logical solution that almost everyone has come to.

Let's see if ZOS will listen to the community or not. However it troubles me that ZOS, when faced with community opposition, usually doubles down instead of changing course so we will likely see this.


Haunting curse: This ability now takes 12 seconds for the initial explosion but the damage is increased by 100%. It then explodes 30minutes later for 10,000 damage.
Daedric Prey: Increased the pet damage of this ability by 5%.

Wrong. When PTS-3 hits there will be two pages of pet changes followed by another nerf. Frags this time is my guess.

Then followed by a post by a lead designer, "We made pets even more powerful, I don't understand why everyone is so upset?"

Akimbro

Pinja wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Pinja wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

Digiman wrote: »

lygerseye wrote: »

Alpheu5 wrote: »

Image-Free Breakdown

Parameters

• Critical chance is taken out of consideration to standardize numbers
• Weaving is taken out of consideration to standardize timing
• Crystal Fragments reliably procs every 4 abilities cast
• Abilities are cast at a rate of one per second
• Parses are 24 seconds long
• No Damage-Over-Time abilities are used

Damage Values:

• Velocious/Haunting Curse - 11,000 damage
• Force Pulse - 7,500 damage
• Crystal Fragments Proc - 18,000 damage

Parse Info (Live):

• Velocious Curse explosions: 6
• Force Pulse casts: 15
• Crystal Fragment casts: 4

Curse Damage: 66,000
Total Damage: 250,500
DPS: 10,437.50

Parse Info (U13):

• Velocious Curse explosions: 4
• Force Pulse casts: 18
• Crystal Fragment casts: 5

Curse Damage: 44,000
Total Damage: 269,000
DPS: 11,208.33

So, in short, using fewer Curses allows for more DPS from other skills, correct? Doesn't it then also reason that by eliminating the use of Curse altogether, your DPS will go even higher?

Great, you've now proven that the Curse skill is useless in any form.

QFT

This guy sums up the problem, they gutted an ability to force us into using it less often. In short its become incredibly weakened and the sorcerer is relying on other abilities to compensate.

That isn't a buff or its gutting of a central playstyle.

No. The post you quoted is woefully inaccurate.

Curse in the form provides lower DPS than live Velocious but significantly more Damage Per Cast. Since globals share the same cooldown, you will not gain higher DPS by removing PTS Curse from your rotation.

Know, No?

In 'simplifying' things this thread even omitted the actual calculation of animation timing... In the plainest sense all animations notated are instant cast magical abilities which should give them the same frequency of frag procs.
Meaning that Damage output will be decided by the fluctuation of higher damage abilities which is curse.
To all so mention,
A.Curse damage is more reliable the FP.
B.Frag bursts aren't consistent, & better adapted to the old quicker refreshing curse.
C.Haunting saves you from pausing the damage of 1 curse animation frame, but it's a whole curse lost that 1 FP won't equal 2.

Sure at 10.5s of full contact you may've gained 1k damage with haunting, but at 12s your down about 10k from when the third curse would've gone off. Don't sound bite the results.

If you're really bad at your rotation I guess what you say is true. Haunting Curse is a DPS increase no matter Frag procs or not, because you apply it at the same time as your Liquid Lightning and your Elemental Blockade. So you always prioritize Frags in an Haunting Curse rotation, because Curse is used as a DoT. Usually you never had 3 V. Curses in your normal rotation anyway, it was always 2. (LL > Blockade > Curse > 3 weaves > Curse > 2 weaves > restart).

A. True. But Haunting is still just as reliable as Velocious is, with more room for lag/human error.
B. How? Haunting Curse is used as a DoT. You cast Frags as soon as they are available, they are still prioritized, but not at the expense of Curse and a brief shift in the timing of your rotation.
C. The second damage pulse isn't lost, its still there, its the whole point of Haunting Curse, the recast.

There always were 2 Curses in a perfectly timed rotation. That doesn't change with Haunting Curse. You can a global cool down and you keep the damage of the second curse, allowing for an extra Force Pulse weave (extra chance to proc Ilambris).
Squeezing in a third V.Curse into the current live rotation is a DPS loss. I've outlined the sorc rotation just above. If you add in an extra weave and an extra Curse you lose uptime on your 2 highest DPS skills: Liquid Lightning and Elemental Blockade. So if you did use 2 extra globals (1 for FP weave, 1 for Curse cancelled with bar swap), you'd lose 2 seconds uptime on both DoTs in each rotation, resulting in a tremendous DPS loss.

"If you're really bad at your rotation" ya your going to need 'that rotation' & second ward for human error. What time with curse is lost on the back bar? If your doing the build right, it's on the damage bar. Even if you need to run the second ward which I guess your doing, put LL on the back bar because your rotating V.curse in more often. Stack curse first, take out the third weave to add extra curse & your doing more damage with VC. Even with this one narrow build your trying to tailor the effectiveness of HC around. Lighting Staff, DW elegence, & PVP sorcs do better with VC.
The fact the you don't even understand what I mean when I say burst time the frag in B. means that your one of the more 'casual' players who've never set foot in cyrodiil as a sorc. When your going for player kills you don't throwout blatant trash damage, you stack the crystal with the explosion so your opponent will be down 4 the execute damage. Frags timeout after 4s, so if you procked it on the start of HC's 6s your not doing it.
Another thing in this

(LL > Blockade > Curse > 3 weaves > Curse > 2 weaves > restart)

overly simplified 'rotation' your not even properly timing the LL & missing about 4-6s of up time on it, which is one whole it. Granted this your example of the old rotation, but plainly said if you were running it this way you were running it wrong. Further presenting that this whole change was centered around noobs who didn't know how to properly run a rotation.

Pretty much. Like, most of us understand the math in a simplified, theoretical rotation. But the rotation should be centered around blockade and liquid as those should be your highest DPS skills. The haunting curse change is a buff to those who weren't able to maintain 2 curse explosions + a curse cast before refreshing dots on the back bar. And, as much as I would have liked haunting curse to be a buff overall, I'm just not seeing it with testing on the PTS. The only thing that slightly makes up for it is the change to the destro ancient knowledge passive.

Icarus42

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Btw I tried out Haunting Curse now that I finally got access to PTS. I play a dual wield sorc with V.Curse on the back bar on live. So I was already used to having Curse on the back bar etc. Both explosions became unpredictable burst moments. First few tests I'm done took some getting used to. After around 30 minutes of using it in longer fights, I noticed that no one can see the second explosion coming, even if they know it is coming at some point. It much harder to keep track of two 6 sec explosions that just one 3.5 sec explosion. You have more time to set up your burst, you have more time to shield up before bursting, you have a second free explosion. I think that everyone here who is saying its absolute rubbish and that ZOS are pushing pet builds with this change, has simply no idea of what he is talking about and hasn't tested it out. Stop making assumptions, go test it.

Now fun fact. I decided to go into open world PvP with an unmoprhed Curse yesterday night on my DW sorc. Thing is... You don't need Curse to kill squishy guys, lobbies, noobs, bad players, etc. when you 1vX. An empowered frag + endless fury is enough to kill pretty much anyone who's not built correctly. In the longer encounters, well you weren't going to win them in 3.5 seconds either. Once again, here the 6 sec Curse shines simply because you have time to actually shield up while your Curse is up on that dude who's been jesus beaming you from behind that tree, then turn around and quickly burst him down. 1vX on a DW build is pretty much unharmed with a 6 sec Curse. Don't forget that I don't have the auto-recast on live, so a second explosion buys you even more time and more pressure against tougher guys. This was all on a dual wield build that is capable of pulling off 20k Frags.
Then I tried with a destro staff. Basically the same thing. You kill bad players with a Frag, a Force Pulse and a Fury. You don't need Curse for those guys, its a waste of magicka. But we all already knew that, right? Please, tell me you weren't putting Curse on every non-important/non-dangerous guy...

At first, I was pretty mad at this change. Now after actually testing it out I share @Xeven 's position entirely on this new change and am looking forward to it.

They have got to be the worst players in eso if you kill them with one frag and an execute, lol!
I've been playing DW Sorc for quite a while and that just does not happen on the regular in any scenario, and I can crit a 19k crystal frag in Cyrodiil and a 14k execute.
The problem with this equation is that you only hit those crystal frags half the time, velocious was there to amplify that, combine it with usual streak, meteor, frag whatever boom you have a kill.
When running against numerous opponents in pvp it was possible to switch single target with the holy trinity, curse, frag, fury, with haunted it is simply not possible to target more than one person. Furthermore I dont care what anyone haunted is a handy cap. I have tested it on my DW sorc, of course its hard to make any assumptions on how haunted will work when it goes live, but just by looking at and testing it, it is going make life very challenging for DW's in pvp. C'mon frag execute lol!
Also of course it will be easier for staff users they can spam something...

Domander

My opinion is that we should take the force shock buff and the dps buff of curse and call it a win.

Izaki

Pinja wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Pinja wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

Digiman wrote: »

lygerseye wrote: »

Alpheu5 wrote: »

Image-Free Breakdown

Parameters

• Critical chance is taken out of consideration to standardize numbers
• Weaving is taken out of consideration to standardize timing
• Crystal Fragments reliably procs every 4 abilities cast
• Abilities are cast at a rate of one per second
• Parses are 24 seconds long
• No Damage-Over-Time abilities are used

Damage Values:

• Velocious/Haunting Curse - 11,000 damage
• Force Pulse - 7,500 damage
• Crystal Fragments Proc - 18,000 damage

Parse Info (Live):

• Velocious Curse explosions: 6
• Force Pulse casts: 15
• Crystal Fragment casts: 4

Curse Damage: 66,000
Total Damage: 250,500
DPS: 10,437.50

Parse Info (U13):

• Velocious Curse explosions: 4
• Force Pulse casts: 18
• Crystal Fragment casts: 5

Curse Damage: 44,000
Total Damage: 269,000
DPS: 11,208.33

So, in short, using fewer Curses allows for more DPS from other skills, correct? Doesn't it then also reason that by eliminating the use of Curse altogether, your DPS will go even higher?

Great, you've now proven that the Curse skill is useless in any form.

QFT

This guy sums up the problem, they gutted an ability to force us into using it less often. In short its become incredibly weakened and the sorcerer is relying on other abilities to compensate.

That isn't a buff or its gutting of a central playstyle.

No. The post you quoted is woefully inaccurate.

Curse in the form provides lower DPS than live Velocious but significantly more Damage Per Cast. Since globals share the same cooldown, you will not gain higher DPS by removing PTS Curse from your rotation.

Know, No?

In 'simplifying' things this thread even omitted the actual calculation of animation timing... In the plainest sense all animations notated are instant cast magical abilities which should give them the same frequency of frag procs.
Meaning that Damage output will be decided by the fluctuation of higher damage abilities which is curse.
To all so mention,
A.Curse damage is more reliable the FP.
B.Frag bursts aren't consistent, & better adapted to the old quicker refreshing curse.
C.Haunting saves you from pausing the damage of 1 curse animation frame, but it's a whole curse lost that 1 FP won't equal 2.

Sure at 10.5s of full contact you may've gained 1k damage with haunting, but at 12s your down about 10k from when the third curse would've gone off. Don't sound bite the results.

If you're really bad at your rotation I guess what you say is true. Haunting Curse is a DPS increase no matter Frag procs or not, because you apply it at the same time as your Liquid Lightning and your Elemental Blockade. So you always prioritize Frags in an Haunting Curse rotation, because Curse is used as a DoT. Usually you never had 3 V. Curses in your normal rotation anyway, it was always 2. (LL > Blockade > Curse > 3 weaves > Curse > 2 weaves > restart).

A. True. But Haunting is still just as reliable as Velocious is, with more room for lag/human error.
B. How? Haunting Curse is used as a DoT. You cast Frags as soon as they are available, they are still prioritized, but not at the expense of Curse and a brief shift in the timing of your rotation.
C. The second damage pulse isn't lost, its still there, its the whole point of Haunting Curse, the recast.

There always were 2 Curses in a perfectly timed rotation. That doesn't change with Haunting Curse. You can a global cool down and you keep the damage of the second curse, allowing for an extra Force Pulse weave (extra chance to proc Ilambris).
Squeezing in a third V.Curse into the current live rotation is a DPS loss. I've outlined the sorc rotation just above. If you add in an extra weave and an extra Curse you lose uptime on your 2 highest DPS skills: Liquid Lightning and Elemental Blockade. So if you did use 2 extra globals (1 for FP weave, 1 for Curse cancelled with bar swap), you'd lose 2 seconds uptime on both DoTs in each rotation, resulting in a tremendous DPS loss.

"If you're really bad at your rotation" ya your going to need 'that rotation' & second ward for human error. What time with curse is lost on the back bar? If your doing the build right, it's on the damage bar. Even if you need to run the second ward which I guess your doing, put LL on the back bar because your rotating V.curse in more often. Stack curse first, take out the third weave to add extra curse & your doing more damage with VC. Even with this one narrow build your trying to tailor the effectiveness of HC around. Lighting Staff, DW elegence, & PVP sorcs do better with VC.
The fact the you don't even understand what I mean when I say burst time the frag in B. means that your one of the more 'casual' players who've never set foot in cyrodiil as a sorc. When your going for player kills you don't throwout blatant trash damage, you stack the crystal with the explosion so your opponent will be down 4 the execute damage. Frags timeout after 4s, so if you procked it on the start of HC's 6s your not doing it.
Another thing in this

(LL > Blockade > Curse > 3 weaves > Curse > 2 weaves > restart)

overly simplified 'rotation' your not even properly timing the LL & missing about 4-6s of up time on it, which is one whole it. Granted this your example of the old rotation, but plainly said if you were running it this way you were running it wrong. Further presenting that this whole change was centered around noobs who didn't know how to properly run a rotation.

Okay that whole first part: wut? so are you talking about pvp or pve? I'm talking solely of pve. I saw "second ward" and then "liquid lightning" in the same sentence. Tell me you don't do that in pve or pvp please. Otherwise I can't take you seriously. Hence, you gotta learn to read before replying to me: pve or pvp?
I guess I'm a noob yeah. I guess I've never killed anyone in Cyrodiil, or I guess I've never done a duelling tournament. So how exactly can you come these utterly wrong conclusions from a post on the efficiency on Haunting Curse in PvE?
You're calling me a noob at my rotation in PvE as well? Let's see your DPS. With Velocious Curse you only had 2 applications per rotation not 3.

Pinja

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Pinja wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Pinja wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

Digiman wrote: »

lygerseye wrote: »

Alpheu5 wrote: »

Image-Free Breakdown

Parameters

• Critical chance is taken out of consideration to standardize numbers
• Weaving is taken out of consideration to standardize timing
• Crystal Fragments reliably procs every 4 abilities cast
• Abilities are cast at a rate of one per second
• Parses are 24 seconds long
• No Damage-Over-Time abilities are used

Damage Values:

• Velocious/Haunting Curse - 11,000 damage
• Force Pulse - 7,500 damage
• Crystal Fragments Proc - 18,000 damage

Parse Info (Live):

• Velocious Curse explosions: 6
• Force Pulse casts: 15
• Crystal Fragment casts: 4

Curse Damage: 66,000
Total Damage: 250,500
DPS: 10,437.50

Parse Info (U13):

• Velocious Curse explosions: 4
• Force Pulse casts: 18
• Crystal Fragment casts: 5

Curse Damage: 44,000
Total Damage: 269,000
DPS: 11,208.33

So, in short, using fewer Curses allows for more DPS from other skills, correct? Doesn't it then also reason that by eliminating the use of Curse altogether, your DPS will go even higher?

Great, you've now proven that the Curse skill is useless in any form.

QFT

This guy sums up the problem, they gutted an ability to force us into using it less often. In short its become incredibly weakened and the sorcerer is relying on other abilities to compensate.

That isn't a buff or its gutting of a central playstyle.

No. The post you quoted is woefully inaccurate.

Curse in the form provides lower DPS than live Velocious but significantly more Damage Per Cast. Since globals share the same cooldown, you will not gain higher DPS by removing PTS Curse from your rotation.

Know, No?

In 'simplifying' things this thread even omitted the actual calculation of animation timing... In the plainest sense all animations notated are instant cast magical abilities which should give them the same frequency of frag procs.
Meaning that Damage output will be decided by the fluctuation of higher damage abilities which is curse.
To all so mention,
A.Curse damage is more reliable the FP.
B.Frag bursts aren't consistent, & better adapted to the old quicker refreshing curse.
C.Haunting saves you from pausing the damage of 1 curse animation frame, but it's a whole curse lost that 1 FP won't equal 2.

Sure at 10.5s of full contact you may've gained 1k damage with haunting, but at 12s your down about 10k from when the third curse would've gone off. Don't sound bite the results.

If you're really bad at your rotation I guess what you say is true. Haunting Curse is a DPS increase no matter Frag procs or not, because you apply it at the same time as your Liquid Lightning and your Elemental Blockade. So you always prioritize Frags in an Haunting Curse rotation, because Curse is used as a DoT. Usually you never had 3 V. Curses in your normal rotation anyway, it was always 2. (LL > Blockade > Curse > 3 weaves > Curse > 2 weaves > restart).

A. True. But Haunting is still just as reliable as Velocious is, with more room for lag/human error.
B. How? Haunting Curse is used as a DoT. You cast Frags as soon as they are available, they are still prioritized, but not at the expense of Curse and a brief shift in the timing of your rotation.
C. The second damage pulse isn't lost, its still there, its the whole point of Haunting Curse, the recast.

There always were 2 Curses in a perfectly timed rotation. That doesn't change with Haunting Curse. You can a global cool down and you keep the damage of the second curse, allowing for an extra Force Pulse weave (extra chance to proc Ilambris).
Squeezing in a third V.Curse into the current live rotation is a DPS loss. I've outlined the sorc rotation just above. If you add in an extra weave and an extra Curse you lose uptime on your 2 highest DPS skills: Liquid Lightning and Elemental Blockade. So if you did use 2 extra globals (1 for FP weave, 1 for Curse cancelled with bar swap), you'd lose 2 seconds uptime on both DoTs in each rotation, resulting in a tremendous DPS loss.

"If you're really bad at your rotation" ya your going to need 'that rotation' & second ward for human error. What time with curse is lost on the back bar? If your doing the build right, it's on the damage bar. Even if you need to run the second ward which I guess your doing, put LL on the back bar because your rotating V.curse in more often. Stack curse first, take out the third weave to add extra curse & your doing more damage with VC. Even with this one narrow build your trying to tailor the effectiveness of HC around. Lighting Staff, DW elegence, & PVP sorcs do better with VC.
The fact the you don't even understand what I mean when I say burst time the frag in B. means that your one of the more 'casual' players who've never set foot in cyrodiil as a sorc. When your going for player kills you don't throwout blatant trash damage, you stack the crystal with the explosion so your opponent will be down 4 the execute damage. Frags timeout after 4s, so if you procked it on the start of HC's 6s your not doing it.
Another thing in this

(LL > Blockade > Curse > 3 weaves > Curse > 2 weaves > restart)

overly simplified 'rotation' your not even properly timing the LL & missing about 4-6s of up time on it, which is one whole it. Granted this your example of the old rotation, but plainly said if you were running it this way you were running it wrong. Further presenting that this whole change was centered around noobs who didn't know how to properly run a rotation.

Okay that whole first part: wut? so are you talking about pvp or pve? I'm talking solely of pve. I saw "second ward" and then "liquid lightning" in the same sentence. Tell me you don't do that in pve or pvp please. Otherwise I can't take you seriously. Hence, you gotta learn to read before replying to me: pve or pvp?
I guess I'm a noob yeah. I guess I've never killed anyone in Cyrodiil, or I guess I've never done a duelling tournament. So how exactly can you come these utterly wrong conclusions from a post on the efficiency on Haunting Curse in PvE?
You're calling me a noob at my rotation in PvE as well? Let's see your DPS. With Velocious Curse you only had 2 applications per rotation not 3.

No apologies
Even with LL there's still room for improvement if you revolve it around Curse & Cooldowns.
Curse>LL>Block>Weave(x1.5)>Curse>Weave(x3)>Curse>Block>Weave>LL>Curse>Weave(x3)>Curse>Weave>Blockade>Weave>Curse>Weave>LL>Weave>Curse>Weave(x2)>Blockade>Curse>Weave(x3)>Curse>LL>Weave>ect.
Vs.
LL > Blockade > Curse > 3 weaves > Curse > 2 weaves >repeat.

Granted if extented the heavy attack on a weave by .5 your Crystal frequecy goes down 1/45th every 8s but till that 45 sec you gain DPS.

Though if you use the LF morph
Curse>LF>Blockade>Weave>Curse>Weave(x2)>LF>Curse>Blockade>Weave(x2)>Repeat
Witch complements VC pretty nice with off & on 3:6 which doesn't lag to procs with crystals.

With this morph HC hinders as you really only gain two extra weaves at the cost of a whole curse.

Curse>LF>Blockade>Weave>CurseWeave>Weave(x2)>LF>CurseWeave>Blockade>Weave(x2)>Repeat

To note that the change is so trivial on it's ideal build, but skews up everything else. Especially PvP.
Like just add the change to Daedric Pray to improve the morph so it adds 55% pet damage & repeats after 6s.
@Pinja