Velocious/Haunting Curse Side-by-Side Theoretical Test

Minalan

Xeven wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Why am I bothering to argue with the best sorc on all of NA? I'm just an ignorant peon compared to you, what do I know?

You said I was "terrible at PvP" because I said things that you didn't want to hear. I said I was a top NA sorc, and I am. I don't care if you wan't to hear that either.

Now I'm the "best sorc NA". Clever.

Haunting is actually pretty damn good. Deal with it.

No, you're wrong. And I've told you why. You apparently havent read any of it because it disagrees with you.

I read the OP, and extended the courtesy of looking everything over carefully. I've already explained why those 'numbers' aren't indicative of a real PVP fight where your opponent is blocking, dodging, and purging constantly. I've already explained why a haunted curse debuff won't spend twelve seconds on anyone with a Templar in their group.

A 3.5 second curse is not dodgeable, blockable, and it's twice as hard to purge, especially when paired with a CC, or timed when someone is in mist form. It can even pull a nightblade out of a four second cloak before he escapes.

The nerf is huge for PVP. You'll find that I'm right. I'll be here when you figure it out. I'm not the 'best sorc on NA' or anything, but I have fun and know what I'm doing and talking about.

Thornen

Minalan wrote: »

A 3.5 second curse forces stamina builds to use some defensive CD's instead of a non stop litany of animation cancelled crit rushes, tremorscale, and melee attacks.

You can land a 3.5 second curse on someone in mist form, and time it so that it explodes when they finally come out of it.

You can hit a stealth ganker, and force him out of his 4 second cloak before he escapes for good. He's long gone in six seconds.

A 3.5 second curse sometimes hits templars, a 6 and a 12 second explosion will NEVER land on them. They will be purged. Every. Single. Time.

People in groups with templars will have their curses purged for them, a tiny fraction of people will ever be hit by the 'echo explosion' at 12 seconds.

A 3.5 second VC keeps pressure on a permanent block tank. You know the guys who tank 40 people forever because of terrible block mechanics design? Resto staff heavy attacks, magicka poison, and unblockable curse. They eventually die. Nerfing VC is a BUFF to them.

There are SO many reasons to keep a 3.5 second velocious curse, I can't expect someone who doesn't play the class in PVP to understand how bad this change ruins our day to day gameplay. I DO. I know what I'm talking about.

Curse is our ONE ability that can't be blocked or dodge rolled, how is it a good thing that we can only do TWO in a 12 second period instead of THREE?

You must be absolutely horrible at PVP if you think this is a buff.

Xeven wrote: »

I'm not even talking about PvE. I'm talking about PvP. Many arguments can be made as to why Haunting is actually better than Velocious in PvP.

If you can't think of any, you're not trying.

100% what this guy said, the curse changes pretty much trashcan an entire playstyle.

HoloYoitsu

@OP, what staff are you using to test that, are you taking the 8% single target dmg boost from fire on the PTS into account?

@Xeven so why not just combine haunting & Daedric prey into one instead of deleting Velocious curse from the game, which kills dual wield as you acknowledge. Sorcs have every right to be mad about this change.

Show me one other class that is forced so hard into only having one viable weapon/play style this patch.

Xeven

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

@OP, what staff are you using to test that, are you taking the 8% single target dmg boost from fire on the PTS into account?

@Xeven so why not just combine haunting & Daedric prey into one instead of deleting Velocious curse from the game, which kills dual wield as you acknowledge. Sorcs have every right to be mad about this change.

Show me one other class that is forced so hard into only having one viable weapon/play style this patch.

No, he isn't. He's also not including the fact that the Haunting build will likely be running Inner Light, which is 10% crit and 7% magicka, while the Velocious build likely will not be. Every theoretical test shown here has actually favored Velocious, yet it still loses in a rotation DPS scenario. Imagine the difference when we add Inner Light?

I'm not defending the removal of Velocious, I'm simply stating that Haunting is actually really good, for many many reasons.

Horowonnoe

Hmm... i heard on the grapevine that the new version of curse will actually be better.
Some initial dps tests by some people have shown this already.

lygerseye

Xeven wrote: »

lygerseye wrote: »

Dagoth_Rac wrote: »

lygerseye wrote: »

Alpheu5 wrote: »

Image-Free Breakdown

Parameters

• Critical chance is taken out of consideration to standardize numbers
• Weaving is taken out of consideration to standardize timing
• Crystal Fragments reliably procs every 4 abilities cast
• Abilities are cast at a rate of one per second
• Parses are 24 seconds long
• No Damage-Over-Time abilities are used

Damage Values:

• Velocious/Haunting Curse - 11,000 damage
• Force Pulse - 7,500 damage
• Crystal Fragments Proc - 18,000 damage

Parse Info (Live):

• Velocious Curse explosions: 6
• Force Pulse casts: 15
• Crystal Fragment casts: 4

Curse Damage: 66,000
Total Damage: 250,500
DPS: 10,437.50

Parse Info (U13):

• Velocious Curse explosions: 4
• Force Pulse casts: 18
• Crystal Fragment casts: 5

Curse Damage: 44,000
Total Damage: 269,000
DPS: 11,208.33

So, in short, using fewer Curses allows for more DPS from other skills, correct? Doesn't it then also reason that by eliminating the use of Curse altogether, your DPS will go even higher?

Great, you've now proven that the Curse skill is useless in any form.

Dropping Haunting Curse for another Force Pulse would be a DPS loss. The time you spend casting Haunting Curse will get you 22,000 damage. The Force Pulse will only get you 7,500 damage. So you would lose 22,000 - 7,500 = 14,500 damage over 12 seconds. About 1,200 DPS.

And THAT is much closer to what you will get using Haunted because everyone will have ample time to cleanse it away.

The point to my comment was really just that while mathematically it works, it's not real enough testing. There's a saying: Lies, Damn Lies, and Statistics. You can provide all sorts of numbers to support your opinion. The numbers don't lie. I'm not questioning the math. How the numbers were obtained and presented, however, can be problematic.

As insightful as the OP's testing is, it's based on entirely ideal conditions, and several assumptions. I applaud the OP for taking the time to do what they did. Now, if we had another 100 people putting in the same effort to do more testing, adding in other variables, and more "real world" factors, then we can start to paint a picture of what the change will actually bring.

Yes but what about all of the other valid arguments. Like, an open slot on your front bar... More time to set up burst... An extra cooldown. Allowing for inner light front bar is huge.

Now then, the standard sorc burst is shield curse shock shock frag furry. In this scenario your shield is 5 seconds old. That's bad. Dangerous in fact.

With haunting you can pressure longer before the burst and, you have time to reshield before the burst. Not only that, its much harder for your opponent to keep track of two 6 second bombs than it is to keep track of a single 3.5 second bomb. As said above, either curse is hard countered by purge. There is no real argument to be had there.

Many who are against the proposed changes are just trying to understand the reason for the change. ZOS has remained silent on it so far. With a proper explanation, or better yet, a proper demonstration, perhaps this could be the new meta, and there will be great rejoicing. On the surface, however, it just looks like it's killing an old meta without anything new in it's place.

The meta is created by people like the OP. We are still going to be bursting down AD/EP/DC nerds all over Cyrodiil. If you can't see potential, or even start to put together new combos in your head, then you just aren't trying. Most people don't, they watch youtube.

All just another argument for the 100 people testing. You're designing a new build based on some information, a lot of guessing, and the assumption about other people's play styles.

For example: shields. I have them, rarely use them. They became almost useless to me when they got nerfed last time. I'll cast them when I jump into a mob, but have much higher DPS when I don't take the time to refresh them. Dangerous? Yes. But a dead enemy can't hurt you, and I get more out of being mobile (Streak) than taking a hit (Shields).

"More time to set up a burst..." to me sounds like "More time to have to wait for a skill to go off before I can hit the next target." I don't usually have the luxury of targeting just one enemy at a time. In 3.5 seconds, I'm often already turning and tracking the next player. Now it's a 6 second wait, minimum, and potentially 12. I want a DPS skill I can use in quick succession. HC is not looking like that skill.

Inner Light on my front bar... It already is.

It's too soon to be telling people to move on and embrace the change. They are at least asking for feedback. We'll have to wait to see if - and to whom - they listen. It's still unproven if this is a good change or not, and I will remain skeptical and wait for more data before I make up my mind.

Alpheu5

Xeven wrote: »

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

@OP, what staff are you using to test that, are you taking the 8% single target dmg boost from fire on the PTS into account?

@Xeven so why not just combine haunting & Daedric prey into one instead of deleting Velocious curse from the game, which kills dual wield as you acknowledge. Sorcs have every right to be mad about this change.

Show me one other class that is forced so hard into only having one viable weapon/play style this patch.

No, he isn't. He's also not including the fact that the Haunting build will likely be running Inner Light, which is 10% crit and 7% magicka, while the Velocious build likely will not be. Every theoretical test shown here has actually favored Velocious, yet it still loses in a rotation DPS scenario. Imagine the difference when we add Inner Light?

I'm not defending the removal of Velocious, I'm simply stating that Haunting is actually really good, for many many reasons.

Pretty much this. I trimmed basically every factor to get right down to the basics, including passives, support skills, debuffs, buffs, etc. When I'm done working I may make a second parse comparison with a full arsenal at play.

Please bear in mind, I made this initially to see if the difference in DPS for PvE would be staggering side-by-side. I'm obligated to say that I was pleasantly surprised.

Mayrael

Lol... Haunting curse better than velicious? In what fkn way? Maybe in PvE but for PvP its a nerf worse than shields change. Its a fkn nightmare for a mag sorc.

Why should I choose Haunting Curse over Daedric Pray? I get nothing in return. Like what? Second free hit? Pff I can recast one skill every 6s. Curse was great skill, no one ever did complain about it and suddenly its nerfed... Ty ZoS. Y its a nerf, and almost 50% dmg nerf. This skill is like a dot, now between ticks you have almost 2x bigger gap, so yeah its hell of a nerf. Not only for damage but also as a utility to build burst, to break cloak, to bring perma blockers down...

What things sorc have now for pvp? Frags and executioner? An additional shield (as anyone can have dampen magic, its as strong as hardened when in full light)? No thank you... Im leaving this ship, Ive wasted enough time and money here.

zerosingularity

I think there are 2 heated sides to the argument, and some people are forgetting that there are PvP specifics and PvE specifics.

PvE - Proven to be more dps with the new change (mathematically and easier rotation, and more variety for skill-bar locations)

PvP - Useless vs Templar, but what about other classes? If a Templar is present then it is a 1vX situation (x can be any number > 1) so any complaints are moot, balance should be done in PvP on a 1v1 or 3v3 or 40v40 situation, never a 1vX situation.


This sound about right? Also try to keep from spreading misinformation, and specify your context as PvP or PvE please. There are impressionable young players on these forums who might get the wrong idea upon seeing information they don't have enough experience in to see as false or incorrect.

Xsorus

I basically came to same conclusion; I would basically backbar Curse and put Inner Light on my main bar. My Crit would increase and i'd gain more magicka which is always nice.

Dymence

@Xeven

Just give up man, I've tried already but the emotional masses won't look at the change objectively. You can bring as many facts up as you want, it'll just be disregarded by their feelings.

Minalan

Dymence wrote: »

@Xeven

Just give up man, I've tried already but the emotional masses won't look at the change objectively. You can bring as many facts up as you want, it'll just be disregarded by their feelings.

My concern is that this is going to turn into a PVP versus PVE fight.

Where PVE players want the superior rotation 'haunting' variant. I don't dispute this, but then I don't PVE either outside of VMA.

PVP players want the short duration and more flexible 'Velocious' variant to deliver more unblockable and undodgable damage in PVP. You can't credibly dispute this either. Three in 12 seconds is better than two.

Why not do both? Leave Velicious Curse, and change the pet variant into 'haunting'.

leepalmer95

Minalan wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

@Xeven

Just give up man, I've tried already but the emotional masses won't look at the change objectively. You can bring as many facts up as you want, it'll just be disregarded by their feelings.

My concern is that this is going to turn into a PVP versus PVE fight.

Where PVE players want the superior rotation 'haunting' variant. I don't dispute this, but then I don't PVE either outside of VMA.

PVP players want the short duration and more flexible 'Velocious' variant to deliver more unblockable and undodgable damage in PVP. You can't credibly dispute this either. Three in 12 seconds is better than two.

Why not do both? Leave Velicious Curse, and change the pet variant into 'haunting'.

Exactly.

hedna123b14_ESO

Alpheu5 wrote: »

Xeven wrote: »

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

@OP, what staff are you using to test that, are you taking the 8% single target dmg boost from fire on the PTS into account?

@Xeven so why not just combine haunting & Daedric prey into one instead of deleting Velocious curse from the game, which kills dual wield as you acknowledge. Sorcs have every right to be mad about this change.

Show me one other class that is forced so hard into only having one viable weapon/play style this patch.

No, he isn't. He's also not including the fact that the Haunting build will likely be running Inner Light, which is 10% crit and 7% magicka, while the Velocious build likely will not be. Every theoretical test shown here has actually favored Velocious, yet it still loses in a rotation DPS scenario. Imagine the difference when we add Inner Light?

I'm not defending the removal of Velocious, I'm simply stating that Haunting is actually really good, for many many reasons.

Pretty much this. I trimmed basically every factor to get right down to the basics, including passives, support skills, debuffs, buffs, etc. When I'm done working I may make a second parse comparison with a full arsenal at play.

Please bear in mind, I made this initially to see if the difference in DPS for PvE would be staggering side-by-side. I'm obligated to say that I was pleasantly surprised.

From my parses around a 20% dps increase from spamming curses over 12 seconds or doing curse and force pulse...

NightbladeMechanics

Xeven wrote: »

I didn't say it was a buff, I said it wasn't as bad as everyone is making it out to be. I am a well know top NA sorc with nothing to prove.

I can understand you are butthurt because they gutted DW sorc. Don't take it out on me.

I can tell you this though, backbaring curse has made my build hit an order of magnitude harder. I don't mind the change - yet. Only time will tell.

Backbarring curse to accommodate Inner Light is an old school way of maximizing sorc burst... And aren't you that sorc who won't duel without Immov pots and Overloads from behind the big AD groups in open world? His name is longer but similar. I can't remember exactly but I remember him being pretty salty when he died.

I'm still undecided about how I feel about the Curse change myself, but it's a pretty objective fact that a 6 second wait will reduce burst opportunities and make the combo more predictable. Overall it limits options and makes the class more predictable, but I suppose that's the direction ZOS is taking the whole game. My gut tells me I prefer the way it is on live -- I've no problem shielding back up while my Curse is ticking before comboing -- but I'll need to see when the patch goes through. Overall, I scratch my head and ask "Why?" at this one.

Betheny

And what happens to your DPS if you take the slot Haunting Curse takes up and replace it with another skill you don't have to cast repeatedly, like a nice DOT.

Alpheu5

Betheny wrote: »

And what happens to your DPS if you take the slot Haunting Curse takes up and replace it with another skill you don't have to cast repeatedly, like a nice DOT.

Using the same numbers as before:

• Velocious Curse - 3,142.86 damage per second over 3.5 seconds per cast.
• Haunting Curse - 1,833.33 damage per second over 12 seconds per cast.

Liquid Lightning is approximately in the 2.7k range, give or take a few hundred, and Wall of Elements hovers around 2k (more with flame). If you already have both of these skills slotted and you want a replacement for Haunting, your options are fairly underwhelming since a lot of the remaining DoTs have relatively low damage values, but their higher tick count is more fitting for a build that uses "X% chance when dealing damage" type sets.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I can't remember if the Master Destruction Staff increased just the initial damage from Destructive Reach/Clench or the DoT as well. If it does affect the DoT, it could very well be that it does more damage over 12 seconds than Haunting.

Betheny

Alpheu5 wrote: »

Betheny wrote: »

And what happens to your DPS if you take the slot Haunting Curse takes up and replace it with another skill you don't have to cast repeatedly, like a nice DOT.

Using the same numbers as before:

• Velocious Curse - 3,142.86 damage per second over 3.5 seconds per cast.
• Haunting Curse - 1,833.33 damage per second over 12 seconds per cast.

Liquid Lightning is approximately in the 2.7k range, give or take a few hundred, and Wall of Elements hovers around 2k (more with flame). If you already have both of these skills slotted and you want a replacement for Haunting, your options are fairly underwhelming since a lot of the remaining DoTs have relatively low damage values, but their higher tick count is more fitting for a build that uses "X% chance when dealing damage" type sets.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I can't remember if the Master Destruction Staff increased just the initial damage from Destructive Reach/Clench or the DoT as well. If it does affect the DoT, it could very well be that it does more damage over 12 seconds than Haunting.

It would make sense to simply replace Haunting Curse with a real DOT. The skill Haunting Curse is wasting a slot there.

NightbladeMechanics

Xeven wrote: »

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

@OP, what staff are you using to test that, are you taking the 8% single target dmg boost from fire on the PTS into account?

@Xeven so why not just combine haunting & Daedric prey into one instead of deleting Velocious curse from the game, which kills dual wield as you acknowledge. Sorcs have every right to be mad about this change.

Show me one other class that is forced so hard into only having one viable weapon/play style this patch.

No, he isn't. He's also not including the fact that the Haunting build will likely be running Inner Light, which is 10% crit and 7% magicka, while the Velocious build likely will not be. Every theoretical test shown here has actually favored Velocious, yet it still loses in a rotation DPS scenario. Imagine the difference when we add Inner Light?

I'm not defending the removal of Velocious, I'm simply stating that Haunting is actually really good, for many many reasons.

For isolated PvE parse reasons perhaps, but that's irrelevant. PvEers care about parses. As long as every class's end game parses line up decently, they will be happy. PvPers care about mechanics.

The rework of Velocious Curse slows the play style of open world magicka sorc tremendously and hinders sorcs' ability to react to changes in fights, reprioritize targets, and apply pressure to tankier dudes. That alone should have nixed Haunting on the drawing board, yet here we are...

Also, who doesn't run sorc without Major Prophecy from IL front bar or pots these days in PvP? Serious question. Your point about crit is irrelevant, as it should be part of every competitive build to be honest.

Ishammael

Can wings reflect crushing shock again?

FriedEggSandwich

zerosingularity wrote: »

I think there are 2 heated sides to the argument, and some people are forgetting that there are PvP specifics and PvE specifics.

PvE - Proven to be more dps with the new change (mathematically and easier rotation, and more variety for skill-bar locations)

PvP - Useless vs Templar, but what about other classes? If a Templar is present then it is a 1vX situation (x can be any number > 1) so any complaints are moot, balance should be done in PvP on a 1v1 or 3v3 or 40v40 situation, never a 1vX situation.


This sound about right? Also try to keep from spreading misinformation, and specify your context as PvP or PvE please. There are impressionable young players on these forums who might get the wrong idea upon seeing information they don't have enough experience in to see as false or incorrect.

Templars are not the only ones that purge; I've had fights with mageblades that purge my every curse. I liked using velocious curse to follow NBs as they tried to stealth away. Now NBs have a full 6s to get behind LoS instead of 3.5s, I'll never find them.

FriedEggSandwich

Ishammael wrote: »

Can wings reflect crushing shock again?

Yeah I'd relinquish that perk if the curse change was reverted for pvp. I might be in the minority though.

Minalan

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

Can wings reflect crushing shock again?

Yeah I'd relinquish that perk if the curse change was reverted for pvp. I might be in the minority though.

Nope; I'd agree to it as well.

Two force pulses woven simultaneously with light attacks takes down wings. Zap/weave. Zap/weave. Frag.

Wings are extremely strong, but they aren't OP as they are. They require perfect timing to keep up.

Edit: on the positive side I expect to see magicka DK's out there with ice staves blocking those new force pulses. So it's going to be all right for you guys.

Xsorus

I'll backbar it and replace it with Frost Clench, ruin peoples days with that *** *grin*

kyle.wilson

While in a straight dps role this would make since.
But when running solo, quickly killing someone can be key.
With VC you can set the curse, force pulse, and usually by this time frags is about to pop, use mages wrath then frags.

That's a lot of instant damage that the new skill wont have. VC has been my 1 skill to put proctatos in the defensive almost immediately after they try the gank.

The change may be the best skill ever for PVE or zerg play. but for solo and dueling, I don't see it.
But at least pulse wont be reflected in my face by every dk.

Thornen

zerosingularity wrote: »

I think there are 2 heated sides to the argument, and some people are forgetting that there are PvP specifics and PvE specifics.

PvE - Proven to be more dps with the new change (mathematically and easier rotation, and more variety for skill-bar locations)

PvP - Useless vs Templar, but what about other classes? If a Templar is present then it is a 1vX situation (x can be any number > 1) so any complaints are moot, balance should be done in PvP on a 1v1 or 3v3 or 40v40 situation, never a 1vX situation.


This sound about right? Also try to keep from spreading misinformation, and specify your context as PvP or PvE please. There are impressionable young players on these forums who might get the wrong idea upon seeing information they don't have enough experience in to see as false or incorrect.

I don't think you understand how this actually affects pvp, we already have to fit our burst into a 6 second window due to shield nerfs, now we won't even be able to do that.

Jsmalls

I think it's more than obvious to everyone that haunting is Superior in PvE... (Really boring though...)

But for PvP... As numerous Sorcerers in this thread have stated it's an absolute nightmare... The timing involved to correctly anticipate said burst and the following burst 12 seconds later would be awful. God forbid you have more than one target on you as well... That would be borderline impossible to take advantage of.

Zos has stated this change goes into the simplify category. Well in my opinion it becomes much more difficult of a skill to use correctly, and much more easily counterable.

The idea is to make it "easier" for players of all skill levels to use... Well being once of those higher skilled players I can tell you I'll have that other player dead before his curse even goes off, so you're not helping them with this change. And this players can barely keep track of their six second shield, you really don't need to be adding another skill that they'll have to time out 6 seconds after they cast it. Hell even I would have a hard time keeping track of that through CCs, heals, and purges.

I see names like @Xeven trying to defend this change, and I've read all they had to say, but I honestly just don't see what possible benefit this could have FOR PvP. None.

As @Minalan has stated there are various reasons why it's an obvious nerf FOR PVP. It crushes build diversities, it lessens burst opportunity, lessens pressure which increases pressure on us, and we don't really have other "viable" skills to replace its reliability.

The OBVIOUS compromise would be to change daedric prey to haunting and keeping velicious. That way you give PvE'ers their superior and easier rotation. And you also give PvP'ers their simpler burst combination. Which is what Zos claims to set out to do.

Otherwise you're making it harder for one side and easier for the other.

Yolokin_Swagonborn

So we are supposed to take a theoretical parse for PvE that increases DPS by a whopping 771 as proof that this change is a good one? So what is that around 3kDPS over a 2 minute fight? Excuse me while I pick my jaw up from the floor.

Is this real life?

Make the ability a lot less effective and give a lot less utility in PvP and fighting non-boss mobs to give 3k more theoretical DPS to long boss fights in PvE. It feels like this entire post going out on a limb just trying really hard to to justify a really unnecessary, unwanted, and unneeded change.

More insidiously, this post is attempting to sway PvE'ers away from the "Keep Classic Curse" side of the argument by leading them to believe that this will somehow boost their DPS. But it really won't in the big picture.

But there is much more to PvE than long boss fights. Think of the questers, roamers and other people that also enjoy the sorc class. Think of that trash pack where curse used to be a fire and forget skill you could use multiple times instead of once.

Will waiting a full 6 seconds for curse to explode will help them kill random mobs faster? - or even kill that pesky skeever that you accidentally aggro'd on the way to your favorite crafting station?

Not only hardcore PvE'ers and hardcore PvP'ers use curse. This change reduces usability and utility for explorers, questers, pretty much everyone except people that like to stand in a blob DPSing a glowing ghost for 3 minutes while it utters ominous phrases at you.

This also doesn't address the strongest argument that this change is unneeded in the first place and a slight DPS increase in one specific situation does not justify the sheer amount of utility, pressure, and burst this removes from the current curse

I'm glad that the proposed change has at least one positive but highly situational and theoritical benefit for one playstyle but that doesn't erase the huge list of negatives this change would cause to a variety of affected playstyles.



New Curse is New Coke. Don't mess with a classic.

Xeven

Jsmalls wrote: »

I see names like @Xeven trying to defend this change, and I've read all they had to say, but I honestly just don't see what possible benefit this could have FOR PvP. None.

I'm really not. I freaked out just like everyone else when I read the patch note. I'm only saying that haunting is actually really good.

Basically there are two types of opponents in Cyrodiil. Ones you can burst down with a single combo, and the ones you're going to have a prolonged fight with.

I don't need Velocious to kill the first type, and 3.5 seconds on Velocious isn't much of an advantage vs the second type.

After trying it out on pts and realizing how awesome an extra front slot along with a lot more cooldowns to spare on other things, it's actually not all that bad.

Try it. You might like it.

hedna123b14_ESO

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

So we are supposed to take a theoretical parse for PvE that increases DPS by a whopping 771 as proof that this change is a good one? So what is that around 3kDPS over a 2 minute fight? Excuse me while I pick my jaw up from the floor.

Is this real life?

Make the ability a lot less effective and give a lot less utility in PvP and fighting non-boss mobs to give 3k more theoretical DPS to long boss fights in PvE. It feels like this entire post going out on a limb just trying really hard to to justify a really unnecessary, unwanted, and unneeded change.

More insidiously, this post is attempting to sway PvE'ers away from the "Keep Classic Curse" side of the argument by leading them to believe that this will somehow boost their DPS. But it really won't in the big picture.

But there is much more to PvE than long boss fights. Think of the questers, roamers and other people that also enjoy the sorc class. Think of that trash pack where curse used to be a fire and forget skill you could use multiple times instead of once.

Will waiting a full 6 seconds for curse to explode will help them kill random mobs faster? - or even kill that pesky skeever that you accidentally aggro'd on the way to your favorite crafting station?

Not only hardcore PvE'ers and hardcore PvP'ers use curse. This change reduces usability and utility for explorers, questers, pretty much everyone except people that like to stand in a blob DPSing a glowing ghost for 3 minutes while it utters ominous phrases at you.

This also doesn't address the strongest argument that this change is unneeded in the first place and a slight DPS increase in one specific situation does not justify the sheer amount of utility, pressure, and burst this removes from the current curse

I'm glad that the proposed change has at least one positive but highly situational and theoritical benefit for one playstyle but that doesn't erase the huge list of negatives this change would cause to a variety of affected playstyles.



New Curse is New Coke. Don't mess with a classic.

In PvE the currse changes raises the DPS during those 12 seconds by around 20% for PvE...a significant change for sure...