PTS Feedback Thread for Templar Balance Improvements

Brrrofski

technohic wrote: »

For you Stamplars; is it at least useable? I know its not great but I am considering going that route just for a change in play style of turtle up and heal then use spell power build up from heavy to lash out. Probably would be better off leveling up my stamblade, but I don't wanna.

No. You can't sustain in heavy.

If you don't wear heavy, gankblades, destro ult, proc sets, spriggan and spinners just melts you. You're just a roll monkey until you die. Duels and 1v1/1v2 it's fun. More than that and you have no chance.

Qbiken

Remove magickasteal. It´s horrible for the sustain.

technohic

Brrrofski wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

For you Stamplars; is it at least useable? I know its not great but I am considering going that route just for a change in play style of turtle up and heal then use spell power build up from heavy to lash out. Probably would be better off leveling up my stamblade, but I don't wanna.

No. You can't sustain in heavy.

If you don't wear heavy, gankblades, destro ult, proc sets, spriggan and spinners just melts you. You're just a roll monkey until you die. Duels and 1v1/1v2 it's fun. More than that and you have no chance.

Ah well. Guss I just turtle and RD away.

VigilantLance

I don't see the point to this thread. Is there an active dev reading this feedback? It doesn't appear easily when you perform a search for it. Thank goodness google is more competent then the actual page built in search.

I don't see any correspondence beyond the occasional moderation through the pages.

Will there be any adjustments or is this page more of a faux formality?

Stamplars need urgent attention. They are lowest on the stamina totem pole. While these changes don't directly affect stamina Templar builds, they are still left unaddressed. This is after months of supposed balancing.

templesus

technohic wrote: »

For you Stamplars; is it at least useable? I know its not great but I am considering going that route just for a change in play style of turtle up and heal then use spell power build up from heavy to lash out. Probably would be better off leveling up my stamblade, but I don't wanna.

Useable? Yes. But that isn't the point we are making. Compared to the OTHER stamina classes, we are vastly underperforming. Our passive are the worst, abilities are the worst, ultimates are the worst, and sustain is BY FAR the worst.

OdinForge

VigilantLance wrote: »

I don't see the point to this thread. Is there an active dev reading this feedback? It doesn't appear easily when you perform a search for it. Thank goodness google is more competent then the actual page built in search.

I don't see any correspondence beyond the occasional moderation through the pages.

Will there be any adjustments or is this page more of a faux formality?

They've used these threads from PTS in the past to listen to feedback and adjust. The one that comes to mind to me was Dark Brotherhood PTS where they removed the CC from reverb bash, and everyone asked them to change it back.

They responded in the thread and reverted the change. I'm sure it won't be easy for them to change something as drastic as Stamplar though, it takes them a while to get balance changes into play. If they haven't put serious thought into something as big as Stamplar, they probably won't do it during PTS now.

My guess is we who play Stamplar are going to have to wait a while, or take a break and come back later.

Syiccal

I do alright on my stamplar in heavy I get melted in medium
just need to combine it with 2h + s/s and bloodspawn I also use s/s ult on back bar so when I'm out resources I can heal up without blocking and just weave light attacks to get stam back while taking no dmg for 7 seconds
it seems to work although I get alot of hate for it there isn't much else I found that works
also got make sure I don't spam hell out of jabs and only use them when I land dizzying swing or dawnbreaker of smite.
also I'm sacrificing some dmg for sustain by having 1 enchant ad recovery and serpent stone

HaloGod

I think reducing the damage of radiant was not the right way to adjust the skill. The issue in PvP is that people cast it at full health hoping that someone else will do enough damage while casting that the target gets in to execute range. It isn't even effective until under 30% compared to other DPS, and some players under 10%. I think an ideal fix to me would prevent the skill from being cast until a player is under 30%. I think the easier change is just not scale the damage until 30% (but have a steeper curve so that the same damage applies now when a target is actually in execute range). That will hopefully prevent the radiant spamming that is so common in PvP.

evedgebah

I must mirror the sentiment that removing the stun from Blazing spear hurt a lot, but not only from PVP, in PVE, this skill was great at hitting enemy casters in back lines of mobs in settings such as Dragonstar or Maelstrom Arena while also being useable for AOE damage. The versatility over Javelin was great, also, it would stun some enemies that were immune to knock-back. I don't always want to charge at my target to stun them as with Toppling Charge.

@Solariken 's idea to make Radiant's damage scale based upon range is brilliant. If it worked like reverse of the Archery Passive. It would fix the utilization from "safe spots" in PVP (backs or zergs, towers, cliffs, keep walls), while forcing PVE players to stand closer to bosses and in more dangerous positions to see similar numbers as before.

Eclipse's reworks does not address the primary concerns with the skill interacting with CC immunity (also as many others mentioned).

Hasty Prayer is lots of fun. I'm trying to maximize its utility, but I used to love the skill back in 1.X and am excited to try it in a full raid scenario.

Ritual of Rebirth restricts my actions too much still, and block-canceling out of it for one reason or another makes me sad. Also, it just cannot compare to other ultimates outside of specific PVP scenarios where you absolutely need to get people through a wall of damage alive (and here, Barrier worked great for this and was nerfed for having the same purpose).

Restoring Aura's new ability is interesting and more useful than before, but still lackluster, since Magickasteal will be applied in most raid scenarios by other means. In PVP, I can see it being more useful, but have not had chance to test it in large battles.

usmcjdking

technohic wrote: »

For you Stamplars; is it at least useable? I know its not great but I am considering going that route just for a change in play style of turtle up and heal then use spell power build up from heavy to lash out. Probably would be better off leveling up my stamblade, but I don't wanna.

No. Our spammable is a 1 second non-targeted conal channel that misses more than it hits due to it being dodgeable and strongly affected by lag.

Akimbro

Alcast wrote: »

It is funny that when people talk about TEMPLARS all they think of is Magicka Templars. There used the be smth called "Stamina Templars" a long time ago......but I guess people have forgotten about that setup..

The only thing that bothers me on Magplar is the nerf to Radiant Destruction. Crippels magicka Templars for PvE and does change ZERO in PvP. Because we all know RANGE is the problem, not the damage.

That seems to be the commonality with this update. Proc set crits, etc...

They're not addressing the real issues at hand. And they say they play their own game...

Ashamray

evedgebah wrote: »

Hasty Prayer is lots of fun. I'm trying to maximize its utility, but I used to love the skill back in 1.X and am excited to try it in a full raid scenario.

I'm going to take 2H for back bar with Forward Momentum (8 sec root\snares imm.) and this new Hasty thing. Pots for immovable and 50 seconds of Major Expedition (or even combo with Accelerating Drain buff for 20s - Minor Expedition) might be really funny.

THEDKEXPERIENCE

If you're gonna take a Magplar's most fun skill down 21% why not buff the triple fireball by 21%? Magplar's don't have any sort of useful ranged instant cast non-channel. Have you ever tried to use dark flare without standing behind 11 people? Darn near impossible.

Throw us a bone.

Also, please don't nerf BoL as a few have suggested. I'd be willing to wager it's the main reason most people chose to roll a Templar years ago. Nerfing RO is annoying but nerfing BoL would be straight up mean.

Alcast

Radiant Destruction, what is the problem? Range.
Sure damage is high, which is totally fine. But why am I able to execute people from almost 50 Meters away? That is what makes this skill so annoying ot fight against.

This is somewhat an older Video where I tried to showcase what the RANGE of this skill can cause.
The video here is only a showcase.
The 21% Damage nerf will NOT matter at all in PVP, but kind of "nerf" the templar in PvE.

And no, "blocking" is not an option, you are dead before you can block or LoS
https://youtu.be/8Q8v-oTHPio

So.....
Did we want a damage nerf? > No
Did we want a range nerf? > Yes

Reverb

Kept my mouth shut until I actually tried it out, now I can speak with first-hand knowledge. I do not like the stun removal from Blazing Spear, this was a horrible change. Was this part of Wroble's Templar House idea? To remove the only viable cc from the class? As both an idea and an execution, it is terrible. Really, horribly bad.

a1i3nz

Just leave blazing spear alone. Nerf the beam idc (tbh I'd prefer a distance nerf huh) but not our only decent stun. I hope that's what they get out if this thread.

And buff the stamplar. It's pretty sad atm

Nifty2g

Alcast wrote: »

Radiant Destruction, what is the problem? Range.
Sure damage is high, which is totally fine. But why am I able to execute people from almost 50 Meters away? That is what makes this skill so annoying ot fight against.

This is somewhat an older Video where I tried to showcase what the RANGE of this skill can cause.
The video here is only a showcase.
The 21% Damage nerf will NOT matter at all in PVP, but kind of "nerf" the templar in PvE.

And no, "blocking" is not an option, you are dead before you can block or LoS
https://youtu.be/8Q8v-oTHPio

So.....
Did we want a damage nerd? > No
Did we want a range nerf? > Yes

This is what happens when people on the forums make topics over and over with no actual solution with how to balance it, so then you get zos who don't know how to balance it either for the community.

I remember them saying they were completely fine with the damage, I mean we are all fine with the damage, that's not the problem, the problem is how instant ticks are on you, multiple beams are on you. No matter the damage nerf it's not going to fix the issue in PVP cause you will still get those *** who sit at the back while 4 people are hitting you just beaming you.

Bring back the damage, and nerf the range @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RichLambert

ColoredScreams

First of all, I'd like to say I like majority of this patch so far. I think ZOS did well adressing overpowered skills like shuffle, radiant destruction, and hurricane (I'd really like to see a change to dark deal).

But in terms of changes to stamina templar.. well, there wasn't any (except for the nerf to unchained and shuffle, but these were needed for all stam classes). Another patch where stamplars are left underwhelming and the worst stamina class. Biting jabs have been nerfed over and over to the point where they've been diluted to soft, predictable, dodgeable, pokey sticks. The Dawn's Wrath Restoring Spirit passive (the ONLY useful passive or skill under dawn's wrath for stamplars) which grants 4% cost reduction to magicka, stamina, and ultimates is an absolute joke compared to the sorcerers 15% ultimate cost reduction (Power Stone passive) and 5% magicka AND stamina cost reduction (Unholy Knowledge passive). The only sustain stamplars have (repentance) is completely lack luster when compared to dark deal, battle roar, and siphoning attacks. Not to mention you must kill targets in order to gain the sustain, making it completely useless in a 1 vs 1. Stamplars utility in pvp group play is also obsolete if a the healer is already running repentance. Their main skills, biting jabs and javelin, are ridiculously expensive, strain their stamina pool, and make it difficult to recover due to their lack of sustain. Stamina templars also suffer from limited mobility because of rune focus (which is fine) and all of their class ultimates are near useless or obsolete.

Rhaegar75

Just a quick question from a returning players: how are we doing in PTS in comparison to other classes? anyone else hit as badly as templars?

WillhelmBlack

Rhaegar75 wrote: »

Just a quick question from a returning players: how are we doing in PTS in comparison to other classes? anyone else hit as badly as templars?

Just from duelling it's hard to tell, everyone is playing Pet Sorc or Mag DK which are difficult to duel to start with. Magplar is stronger though, I'm not a keen duelist but I could tell I had more sustain and damage remained the same. I could easily sit and tank and not die if I wanted to but duels don't go anywhere doing that.

Radiant still hits a like a truck if that's what you're asking. I don't feel the nerf at all, it will still do really good damage at 45% health but you still need to distance yourself and use its range to your advantage.

potirondb16_ESO

Stemplar do need love, they are mad fun to play but shity when it comes to deal damage and sustain...

1. Could Templar get Major Brutality/Sorcery ?
2. Could Templar proc their own synergie ?
3. Could we do a dps version of Sun Shield (would look good)
4. Could we stop having a timer on the proc from passive for bitting jab?

eserras7b16_ESO

This patch notes are just bad I don't agree with most changes I don't feel like playing my templar after reading this bullthing you've wrote and I could go on but it would be unpolite so i'm going to stop it here. Please hire Alcast or something I don't know who is doing the thinking here but that person is clearly not clever enough or doesn't put enough effort wichever the reason is the result is clear: bad changes, nothing fixed.

GG.... I'm so tired of this

ColoredScreams

forzajuve212 wrote: »

Minor magicka steal is going to be extremely broken in PVP and needs to be reworked or scrapped.

It stacks unlimited amounts of time, goes through LoS and walls, and applies to all nearby allies. Currently, if you and a friend are fighting 4 people and the restoring aura debuff is applied, every ally is recieveing 400 magicka per second x 4 enemies, which is 1600 magicka and stacks with your own magicka recovery. In a hypotetical siutation where you are fighting 15 people at once, you will get back 400 magicka per second x 15 enemies, which is 6000 magicka per second for every ally.

This will quite literaly render sustain completely useless if you are playing with a templar as a magicka build.This cannot stand to live without a cap or a complete reversal. Players will be able to run full damage specs with no regard to magicka recovery and you will see absolutely unreal numbers of damage from magicka builds.

Please consider this @Wrobel @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_GinaBruno .

Please do something about this before it goes live. PVP will be ridiculous otherwise. (if it's true)

Paraflex

@ColoredScreams actually that's not true it's working as intended 1 second per 400 mag returned people have been testing this.

Synozeer

Paraflex wrote: »

@ColoredScreams actually that's not true it's working as intended 1 second per 400 mag returned people have been testing this.

That's showing once every 2 seconds though?

Paraflex

Can we talk about Templars in heavy armor for PvP why is it I can sustain and be such a tanky person and we not get changes to Heavy Armor Skill Line

It's to easy for Templars to slap on 5 Heavy and have solid dps or healing in this game.

We should sacrifice dps or healing or sustain if we put on Heavy...make us wear light armor for best performance!

Heavy armor gives Templars such an advantage in every situation.

PvP setups

Tank setup 5 Black Rose 5 Reactive 2 Malubeth

Healer setup 5 transmutation 5 Kags/Seducer/Most things work with Monster sets

DPS setup 5 Kags 5VD/Rattlecage with Monster sets.

Why are Templars so good with any setup in Heavy Armor in any role? This isn't balance this is making Templars the dominant class for PvP.

@ZOS_GinaBruno
@ZOS_BrianWheeler

Please tone down Heavy Armor Templars specifically through Heavy Armor Passives we don't need Mag sustain in Heaven Armor or Wrath for more dps. Remove it....please 8)

timidobserver

Alcast wrote: »

Radiant Destruction, what is the problem? Range.
Sure damage is high, which is totally fine. But why am I able to execute people from almost 50 Meters away? That is what makes this skill so annoying ot fight against.

This is somewhat an older Video where I tried to showcase what the RANGE of this skill can cause.
The video here is only a showcase.
The 21% Damage nerf will NOT matter at all in PVP, but kind of "nerf" the templar in PvE.

And no, "blocking" is not an option, you are dead before you can block or LoS
https://youtu.be/8Q8v-oTHPio

So.....
Did we want a damage nerd? > No
Did we want a range nerf? > Yes

The only thing this post is going to accomplish is convincing them to either nerf the range in addition to the damage, or reduce the damage nerf by 1% and then nerf the range by 50%.

Curragraigue

Alcast wrote: »

It is funny that when people talk about TEMPLARS all they think of is Magicka Templars. There used the be smth called "Stamina Templars" a long time ago......but I guess people have forgotten about that setup..

The only thing that bothers me on Magplar is the nerf to Radiant Destruction. Crippels magicka Templars for PvE and does change ZERO in PvP. Because we all know RANGE is the problem, not the damage.

The thread is to discuss PTS changes to Temps. None of the changes impact Stampler. The fact that they don't is a separate thread issue.

templesus

Curragraigue wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

It is funny that when people talk about TEMPLARS all they think of is Magicka Templars. There used the be smth called "Stamina Templars" a long time ago......but I guess people have forgotten about that setup..

The only thing that bothers me on Magplar is the nerf to Radiant Destruction. Crippels magicka Templars for PvE and does change ZERO in PvP. Because we all know RANGE is the problem, not the damage.

The thread is to discuss PTS changes to Temps. None of the changes impact Stampler. The fact that they don't is a separate thread issue.

Not true, EG nerf affects us. So we have a right to be here. Along with the fact that this thread is about the whole Templar class.

VigilantLance

Curragraigue wrote: »

The thread is to discuss PTS changes to Temps. None of the changes impact Stampler. The fact that they don't is a separate thread issue.

The title of the thread: PTS Feedback Thread for Templar Balance Improvements.

Templar balance... everyone is talking Templar balance.

Go troll elsewhere. You're not a moderator. All templar tanks, stamplars and magplars have the right to be here on this thread.