PTS Feedback Thread for Dragonknight Balance Improvements

Belicourt

It'd be cool if ferocious leap had a combustion component where if there were a minimum of two flame dots on the opponent they combustion for x damage. : D i know this has been said before in one form or another, but maybe now there is a good place for it. @ZOS_RichLambert @Wrobel @ZOS_BrianWheeler also resource management, the biggest problem imo with the class. Do you guys plan on doing anything with that?

OrphanHelgen

Woeler wrote: »

KaiDynasty wrote: »

As someone say, a dk execute is useless, and a real DK don't want it, same devs.
What a magicka DK must have to be on pair to otehr classes is:
1- *DoTs that apply MAJOR DEFILE, they want magicka DK rely on DoTs to pressure an enemy, but in the current state of the game, they are useless. They get cleanse, they get OUTHEALED, this is not possible! If I put 3 dots on an enemy (and I am using 3 skill slots just to pressure 1 enemy), they must do something, but right now, they get outhealed by everything. Major Defile is what Magicka dk need, PVP will be influenced, PVE won't be touched because major defile is useless on mobs!
2- COAGULATING BLOOD still need to be reviewed, I don't know with what, but since DK already have a BAD healing, i don't get why make it worse, we already spend a lot of magicka to use basic skills, and ok a DK with bad regeneration will get a good heal, but, after i heal my self, where is my magicka? I won't be able to heal again my self for a while (YEAH I HAVE ULT AND POTS EVERY 45 SEC), so for 45 secs I won't be able to do damage and heal, i just can hope to hold block for 45 seconds.. guys and ZOS, this is how it will be the things.. You really want to force a class to run out of resources to get a heal and then don't be able to get back resources to continue the fight?This is jjust a mechanic that is good to think about it, but in practice isn't possible.
Rework coagulating dragonblood for something else (I won't ask 0 cost on a heal, because is insane and it means endless heals when on low magicka, there are many options, HoT, heal that scale on max pool (magicka or health), heal that have a basic value + a % value based on missing magicka or health, heal that cleans and ignore cyrodiil debuff. choose or make a new one but that is decent, not a troll, I DON'T WANT A COPY OF BoL).
@Woeler @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RichLambert
I doubt you will make changes in time.. but keep these advices, because is what a mDK lack.

God how many times do I have to state this: I AM NOT A ZOS EMPLOYEE, STOP MENTIONING ME.

@Woeler take it as a compliment I would love to be mentioned like that XD
Sorry for tagging you again, thought it would be funny XD

MaxwellC

@Joy_Division
Yeah after seeing the amount of 'attention' we're getting from the forums I kinda felt that @Wrobel was just blowing smoke up our butts. I would've loved to see my class play like it used to or have abilities that I felt could now be worth slotting on both variants (stam/mag). I only play DK and I've been playing them for a long time at-least since craglorn came out till now.

The class is getting boring at-least in-comparison to what it was before, I remember dynamic ulti being a huge thing but man those were fun days watching my standard of might (200 ultimate) recharge in a minute was a great sight. I definitely hate that they made major defile 30% on our ultimate imo it needs to have a specific debuff like 'Scorched Defile' where it applies 50% like it used to since it's an ultimate and should be unique.

Obviously Flames of oblivion AoE is what I will continue to end with. The fight isn't over and I want this skill to return to it's former glory minus the magicka drain just add something like increased DoT damage (DK DoTs only) with the crit we already receive and it'l be even better.

leepalmer95

@Woeler

I'm laughing me ass off.

Your name is like a combination of wrobel and wheeler. Your the ultimate dev

ZoM_Head

ManDraKE wrote: »

- More useful ultimates: all templar ultimates are useless for a stamplar, we need something. Maybe a stam morph of cresent sweep.'"

"Crescent Sweep (Radial Sweep morph): This morph now deals Physical Damage instead of Magic Damage." As per PTS 2.7.2 patch notes.

Just to show you, how quickly Zenimax reponds to requests for Templars, yet here are the mDKs screaming since Imperial City update (1 year and several months ago) and our bread and butter heal was ignored. Not to mention the passives that never got any sort of update/revision/tweak since launch of ESO, we are approching 3 years now. Yet all other 3 classes got tweaked/changed passives, skills and ultimates.

Its funny how they claim that they love "all classes equally" where they favour mTemplars for PvE and PvP and stamNBs with 1 second shot 3 proc set builds with zero counters in PvP.

Really makes me wonder what to do with my character:



That is 3,800+ hours played, now im not sure if i will dedicate this character to PvE only and grind an easy mode templar for PvP, or still have some hope that the mDK can be viable in PvP once again.

Glory

NBrookus wrote: »

ebethke_ESO wrote: »

I have been playing lately without reflect because I'm trying to prepare myself for how awful the changes will be. What's the point in running a skill that can reflect basically just crystal fragments, snipe, and poison injection?

You aren't reflecting an animation cancelled invisible poison injection unless you have wings up proactively, which will suck your magicka dry. Or can anticipate when they might work it in, if you are lucky enough to be fighting one or two. And snipe goes right through wings most of the time. Even with its current inadequacies, running without Wings really leaves you vulnerable to range attacks with no counter play.

We'll still be able to reflect overload -- watching a sorc murder themselves is good fun -- but with the nerf to overload I'm not sure if we'll see fewer overload sorcs or more common overload shots because players aren't saving it up.

Then again, why bother when they can weave crushing shock and there's not a damn thing we can do about it: can't reflect it, gap closer doesn't work, no ranged damage of our own and we don't have strong shields or heals to mitigate.

I've been playing around with skills as hilarious as radiant magelight. It's funny, because magelight prevents gank sniping (which is arguably as nice as being able to reflect ganks), provides extra crit (lol), and provides a way to empower skills (like the incoming magicka leap).

I dunno, it just seems like it's getting more and more pointless to use a skill that is buggy and continually nerfed.

Aedaryl

ZoM_Head wrote: »

ManDraKE wrote: »

- More useful ultimates: all templar ultimates are useless for a stamplar, we need something. Maybe a stam morph of cresent sweep.'"

"Crescent Sweep (Radial Sweep morph): This morph now deals Physical Damage instead of Magic Damage." As per PTS 2.7.2 patch notes.

Just to show you, how quickly Zenimax reponds to requests for Templars, yet here are the mDKs screaming since Imperial City update (1 year and several months ago) and our bread and butter heal was ignored. Not to mention the passives that never got any sort of update/revision/tweak since launch of ESO, we are approching 3 years now. Yet all other 3 classes got tweaked/changed passives, skills and ultimates.

Its funny how they claim that they love "all classes equally" where they favour mTemplars for PvE and PvP and stamNBs with 1 second shot 3 proc set builds with zero counters in PvP.

Really makes me wonder what to do with my character:



That is 3,800+ hours played, now im not sure if i will dedicate this character to PvE only and grind an easy mode templar for PvP, or still have some hope that the mDK can be viable in PvP once again.

I'm sorry but it seems you are spending 3.800 hours in roleplay, because saying magicka DK is not VIABLE in PvP is a real joke; you are not the best of the best class by far like old days, but it's call balance.

Your heal is a bit weak yeah, but that's all, stop crying on everyskill pls, dev know dk is good, not enough yet cuz bad heal, but there that's all, there is players making great things in PvP with a magicka DK, you are crying like that because you want to be overpowered, not to be balanced.

You need fix to some spell and a better heal, just that, pls remember

MaxwellC

@Aedaryl
Mag DK easily gets stomped open world PvP especially if solo; now if you're talking about group play oh sure they can preform to a decent degree but nonetheless with the expensive cost of skills and mostly being tied down to 1h/shield and resto or heavy armor 1/h shield and resto in order to survive without having to spam dragon's blood or heal ward since that's not entirely useful as it can miss yourself. Mag DK only has a whip and DoTs for the most part since we're usually pigeon holed in one of those two routes as stated above.

My stam dk does fine solo because of access to vigor and rally which both scales with damage n max stam. The only thing my stam dk doesn't have is a decent class specific skill that does damage. Noxious hits 4k crit on a guard while venom claw hits 5-6k crit. DoTs don't do anything in PvP unless it's poison injection.

Do remember our sustain is based from ultimates but unfortunately that's been changed so we do not have better sustain even though we're suppose to be a class that stands their ground and have the best sustain but you've got sorcerers with the best sustain in the game. I'm sure you love your buffs come next patch but I have yet to see what wrobel has stated time and time again regarding DoTs putting pressure because as far as I've seen I have seen a couple nerfs and a couple buffs.

ZoM_Head

Aedaryl wrote: »

ZoM_Head wrote: »

ManDraKE wrote: »

- More useful ultimates: all templar ultimates are useless for a stamplar, we need something. Maybe a stam morph of cresent sweep.'"

"Crescent Sweep (Radial Sweep morph): This morph now deals Physical Damage instead of Magic Damage." As per PTS 2.7.2 patch notes.

Just to show you, how quickly Zenimax reponds to requests for Templars, yet here are the mDKs screaming since Imperial City update (1 year and several months ago) and our bread and butter heal was ignored. Not to mention the passives that never got any sort of update/revision/tweak since launch of ESO, we are approching 3 years now. Yet all other 3 classes got tweaked/changed passives, skills and ultimates.

Its funny how they claim that they love "all classes equally" where they favour mTemplars for PvE and PvP and stamNBs with 1 second shot 3 proc set builds with zero counters in PvP.

Really makes me wonder what to do with my character:



That is 3,800+ hours played, now im not sure if i will dedicate this character to PvE only and grind an easy mode templar for PvP, or still have some hope that the mDK can be viable in PvP once again.

I'm sorry but it seems you are spending 3.800 hours in roleplay, because saying magicka DK is not VIABLE in PvP is a real joke; you are not the best of the best class by far like old days, but it's call balance.

Your heal is a bit weak yeah, but that's all, stop crying on everyskill pls, dev know dk is good, not enough yet cuz bad heal, but there that's all, there is players making great things in PvP with a magicka DK, you are crying like that because you want to be overpowered, not to be balanced.

You need fix to some spell and a better heal, just that, pls remember

Running 5 light 1 and 1.

5 Burning + 5 sun (DW), resto on back bar. Sorry, i do not do heavy and kite around and around with talons/petrify and mist form and build ulti with tavas and shuffle. That is not what a DK does really, its a shame that is a viable setup IMO.

Its not just the heal that does not exsist, it is also the DOTS ( i use both engulfing and burning embers) and they barely do enough damage compared to 1 templar in heavy with vampires bane or cripple from a NB or even a bleed for DW/2H axe.

I run nearly 3.4K spell dmg fully buffed (+400 from sun). I do not role play, never did before and no reason to start. I am also not "crying" about anything, clearly you do not play a DK in a SOLO open world in light armour to get hit with meta stamina builds or even the meta magcka builds of mNBs and mTemplars and shield stacking sorcs.

You say "balance", the mDK has been the most unbalanced class since update 5, and there are numerous threads about it.

But i guess it is your opinion.

Stamden

Aedaryl wrote: »

ZoM_Head wrote: »

ManDraKE wrote: »

- More useful ultimates: all templar ultimates are useless for a stamplar, we need something. Maybe a stam morph of cresent sweep.'"

"Crescent Sweep (Radial Sweep morph): This morph now deals Physical Damage instead of Magic Damage." As per PTS 2.7.2 patch notes.

Just to show you, how quickly Zenimax reponds to requests for Templars, yet here are the mDKs screaming since Imperial City update (1 year and several months ago) and our bread and butter heal was ignored. Not to mention the passives that never got any sort of update/revision/tweak since launch of ESO, we are approching 3 years now. Yet all other 3 classes got tweaked/changed passives, skills and ultimates.

Its funny how they claim that they love "all classes equally" where they favour mTemplars for PvE and PvP and stamNBs with 1 second shot 3 proc set builds with zero counters in PvP.

Really makes me wonder what to do with my character:



That is 3,800+ hours played, now im not sure if i will dedicate this character to PvE only and grind an easy mode templar for PvP, or still have some hope that the mDK can be viable in PvP once again.

I'm sorry but it seems you are spending 3.800 hours in roleplay, because saying magicka DK is not VIABLE in PvP is a real joke; you are not the best of the best class by far like old days, but it's call balance.

Your heal is a bit weak yeah, but that's all, stop crying on everyskill pls, dev know dk is good, not enough yet cuz bad heal, but there that's all, there is players making great things in PvP with a magicka DK, you are crying like that because you want to be overpowered, not to be balanced.

You need fix to some spell and a better heal, just that, pls remember

mDK is a pain in the ass to play in open world PvP. It is not an enjoyable experience at all, and there is no reason to put yourself through that misery when you can make a mag Temp or mag Sorc.

Glory

Aedaryl wrote: »

ZoM_Head wrote: »

ManDraKE wrote: »

- More useful ultimates: all templar ultimates are useless for a stamplar, we need something. Maybe a stam morph of cresent sweep.'"

"Crescent Sweep (Radial Sweep morph): This morph now deals Physical Damage instead of Magic Damage." As per PTS 2.7.2 patch notes.

Just to show you, how quickly Zenimax reponds to requests for Templars, yet here are the mDKs screaming since Imperial City update (1 year and several months ago) and our bread and butter heal was ignored. Not to mention the passives that never got any sort of update/revision/tweak since launch of ESO, we are approching 3 years now. Yet all other 3 classes got tweaked/changed passives, skills and ultimates.

Its funny how they claim that they love "all classes equally" where they favour mTemplars for PvE and PvP and stamNBs with 1 second shot 3 proc set builds with zero counters in PvP.

Really makes me wonder what to do with my character:



That is 3,800+ hours played, now im not sure if i will dedicate this character to PvE only and grind an easy mode templar for PvP, or still have some hope that the mDK can be viable in PvP once again.

I'm sorry but it seems you are spending 3.800 hours in roleplay, because saying magicka DK is not VIABLE in PvP is a real joke; you are not the best of the best class by far like old days, but it's call balance.

Your heal is a bit weak yeah, but that's all, stop crying on everyskill pls, dev know dk is good, not enough yet cuz bad heal, but there that's all, there is players making great things in PvP with a magicka DK, you are crying like that because you want to be overpowered, not to be balanced.

You need fix to some spell and a better heal, just that, pls remember

Thanks for your useful and well versed contribution to a PTS thread about the state of Dragonknights. It is obvious your opinion is justified through facts and practice and not just anecdotes about other players while you put down other people.



/s

RoamingRiverElk

So. .. I'm looking at the thread title...

I assume that based on the overall changes like the wings and Trainee nerf and the buffs to sorcs and templars, the currently OP Magicka DKs - The True Terror of Cyrodiil - have now been brought down enough to their rightful place in class balance?

Cinbri

ZoM_Head wrote: »

ManDraKE wrote: »

- More useful ultimates: all templar ultimates are useless for a stamplar, we need something. Maybe a stam morph of cresent sweep.'"

"Crescent Sweep (Radial Sweep morph): This morph now deals Physical Damage instead of Magic Damage." As per PTS 2.7.2 patch notes.

Just to show you, how quickly Zenimax reponds to requests for Templars, yet here are the mDKs screaming since Imperial City update (1 year and several months ago) and our bread and butter heal was ignored. Not to mention the passives that never got any sort of update/revision/tweak since launch of ESO, we are approching 3 years now. Yet all other 3 classes got tweaked/changed passives, skills and ultimates.

Its funny how they claim that they love "all classes equally" where they favour mTemplars for PvE and PvP and stamNBs with 1 second shot 3 proc set builds with zero counters in PvP.

Really makes me wonder what to do with my character:



That is 3,800+ hours played, now im not sure if i will dedicate this character to PvE only and grind an easy mode templar for PvP, or still have some hope that the mDK can be viable in PvP once again.

You maybe don't know or just prefer to ignore the fact that templars were stomped into ground since IC till Thieves Guild dlc, became literally extincted class and all templars were mass-rerolling in frustration, maybe you also missed how it ended that templar feedback thread then became 90 page full rage thread where 99% of zos' responses were "Unappropriate comments were removed".
I didn't give up on Templar back then and kept fighting for them, theorycrafting tons of feedback and suggestion, and watching how every next major updates those suggestions were implemented and reported bugs started to be fixed, one by one, slow but unevitable (and already know that in Update14 will happen the same). And I enjoy how from worst class it becoming one of the best.
Wana your beloved class to be great - do something worth for it, beside wining, like I trying to do. Or, well, just give up and roll "easy-mode templars" and enjoy hard work of people like me.
P.S.: and your example is just showing your ignorance: stamplars were asking about revamp of Crescent Sweep since IC, same as DK were asking to get magicka-based Ferocius Leap. Maybe you missed patchnotes of your own class, but both of those suggestions were made.

ZoM_Head

Cinbri wrote: »

ZoM_Head wrote: »

ManDraKE wrote: »

- More useful ultimates: all templar ultimates are useless for a stamplar, we need something. Maybe a stam morph of cresent sweep.'"

"Crescent Sweep (Radial Sweep morph): This morph now deals Physical Damage instead of Magic Damage." As per PTS 2.7.2 patch notes.

Just to show you, how quickly Zenimax reponds to requests for Templars, yet here are the mDKs screaming since Imperial City update (1 year and several months ago) and our bread and butter heal was ignored. Not to mention the passives that never got any sort of update/revision/tweak since launch of ESO, we are approching 3 years now. Yet all other 3 classes got tweaked/changed passives, skills and ultimates.

Its funny how they claim that they love "all classes equally" where they favour mTemplars for PvE and PvP and stamNBs with 1 second shot 3 proc set builds with zero counters in PvP.

Really makes me wonder what to do with my character:



That is 3,800+ hours played, now im not sure if i will dedicate this character to PvE only and grind an easy mode templar for PvP, or still have some hope that the mDK can be viable in PvP once again.

You maybe don't know or just prefer to ignore the fact that templars were stomped into ground since IC till Thieves Guild dlc, became literally extincted class and all templars were mass-rerolling in frustration, maybe you also missed how it ended that templar feedback thread then became 90 page full rage thread where 99% of zos' responses were "Unappropriate comments were removed".
I didn't give up on Templar back then and kept fighting for them, theorycrafting tons of feedback and suggestion, and watching how every next major updates those suggestions were implemented and reported bugs started to be fixed, one by one, slow but unevitable (and already know that in Update14 will happen the same). And I enjoy how from worst class it becoming one of the best.
Wana your beloved class to be great - do something worth for it, beside wining, like I trying to do. Or, well, just give up and roll "easy-mode templars" and enjoy hard work of people like me.
P.S.: and your example is just showing your ignorance: stamplars were asking about revamp of Crescent Sweep since IC, same as DK were asking to get magicka-based Ferocius Leap. Maybe you missed patchnotes of your own class, but both of those suggestions were made.

Yes i remember, it was the same with the other classes as well, specifically the stamina NBs in PvP. I have not fully given up, the mDK is still my class to go to and the class i will forever play and support. Just a massive shame on what's going on with this class since IC kicked in, i mean if a developer can not adjust a simple self heal skill for Cyrodiil for nearly 1.5 years...kind depressing.

If you looked at my previous posts here on this thread, i didnt start "complaining" till this page. I posted my thoughts what the class needs compared to other classes. If i do complain, its about Zenimax not adressing several major issues for a long time really.

Cinbri

ZoM_Head wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

ZoM_Head wrote: »

ManDraKE wrote: »

- More useful ultimates: all templar ultimates are useless for a stamplar, we need something. Maybe a stam morph of cresent sweep.'"

"Crescent Sweep (Radial Sweep morph): This morph now deals Physical Damage instead of Magic Damage." As per PTS 2.7.2 patch notes.

Just to show you, how quickly Zenimax reponds to requests for Templars, yet here are the mDKs screaming since Imperial City update (1 year and several months ago) and our bread and butter heal was ignored. Not to mention the passives that never got any sort of update/revision/tweak since launch of ESO, we are approching 3 years now. Yet all other 3 classes got tweaked/changed passives, skills and ultimates.

Its funny how they claim that they love "all classes equally" where they favour mTemplars for PvE and PvP and stamNBs with 1 second shot 3 proc set builds with zero counters in PvP.

Really makes me wonder what to do with my character:



That is 3,800+ hours played, now im not sure if i will dedicate this character to PvE only and grind an easy mode templar for PvP, or still have some hope that the mDK can be viable in PvP once again.

You maybe don't know or just prefer to ignore the fact that templars were stomped into ground since IC till Thieves Guild dlc, became literally extincted class and all templars were mass-rerolling in frustration, maybe you also missed how it ended that templar feedback thread then became 90 page full rage thread where 99% of zos' responses were "Unappropriate comments were removed".
I didn't give up on Templar back then and kept fighting for them, theorycrafting tons of feedback and suggestion, and watching how every next major updates those suggestions were implemented and reported bugs started to be fixed, one by one, slow but unevitable (and already know that in Update14 will happen the same). And I enjoy how from worst class it becoming one of the best.
Wana your beloved class to be great - do something worth for it, beside wining, like I trying to do. Or, well, just give up and roll "easy-mode templars" and enjoy hard work of people like me.
P.S.: and your example is just showing your ignorance: stamplars were asking about revamp of Crescent Sweep since IC, same as DK were asking to get magicka-based Ferocius Leap. Maybe you missed patchnotes of your own class, but both of those suggestions were made.

Yes i remember, it was the same with the other classes as well, specifically the stamina NBs in PvP. I have not fully given up, the mDK is still my class to go to and the class i will forever play and support. Just a massive shame on what's going on with this class since IC kicked in, i mean if a developer can not adjust a simple self heal skill for Cyrodiil for nearly 1.5 years...kind depressing.

If you looked at my previous posts here on this thread, i didnt start "complaining" till this page. I posted my thoughts what the class needs compared to other classes. If i do complain, its about Zenimax not adressing several major issues for a long time really.

I understand frustration regarding Dragoblood, since it is 100% same as Eclipse: both were greatest class skills, after IC they became one of the weakest, and in U13 they might become ever worse. From suggestion to remove cap of Eclipse to actual removal of it passed almost 2 years! but it was done in the end.
But, well, I believe it just require long feedback posts regarding each problematic skill with long list of undeniable arguments in there supported by hard data. My templar experience already proved that zos won't be able to ignore it forever (as I said - I already got hint that our suggestions from current pts might be implemented in U14 [as it will contain major changes too], and for that reason we must not hesitate to share our vision of possible solutions non-stop).

Armitas

Cinbri wrote: »

Wana your beloved class to be great - do something worth for it, beside wining,

We all do, and have done for far over a year. Now were all just tired and angry pissed off. This was supposed to be our update, but the biggest change we were anticipating is a joke, and we got a huge unexpected nerf on top of it. Other classes ask for stuff and it gets done, DK's ask for stuff and we get nerfs or hare brained schemes that they insultingly consider a buff.

Chadwikid

Cinbri wrote: »

Wana your beloved class to be great - do something worth for it, beside wining,

There is a 20 page document to the delves with a detailed breakdown of the issues that plague mDK and an almost innumerable number of suggestions on how to go about fixing them. It was put together with the help of all of the remaining PvP mDk's, myself included, the most vocal and visible and probably one of if not the best, mDK left in the game. Out of all those suggestions ONE was implemented. The rest of this nonsense is indeed some nonsense that ZoS just pulled out of the bum.

That's not to mention a year and a half of complaining and suggestions. Countless upon countless mDk threads about the same things over and over. Asking every PTS for help. Videos highlighting problems. Not to mention the raw statistical numbers that some have posted here in this thread showing the massive difference in mDK in PvP versus any other class.

Then we get told flat out we are getting buffed this patch. they are going to fix us. Promises were made and then we get this steaming pile of horse dung, and you have the nerve to come in here and tell us that we are whining. GTFO kid.

If you don't have anything helpful to add to this conversation then don't add anything

Cinbri

Armitas wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

Wana your beloved class to be great - do something worth for it, beside wining,

We all do, and have done for far over a year. Now were all just tired and angry pissed off. This was supposed to be our update, but the biggest change we were anticipating is a joke, and we got a huge unexpected nerf on top of it. Other classes ask for stuff and it gets done, DK's ask for stuff and we get nerfs or hare brained schemes that they insultingly consider a buff.

It is frustrating and happening for all classes almost every major update, however we can't deny with all those sneak peaks and developer's section of notes and some changes of long-standing problems that ZOS from full-ignorance mode started slowly shifting to partly listening community, very very slowly but still it happening. I would prefer not to see that small intention to be ruined.
P.S.: I love new Ferocius Leap. My teammate in open-world build can deal AoE damage that can crit me in full heavy impenetrable armor for 10k damage, CC and apply damage shield on caster.

Zakor

Cinbri wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

Wana your beloved class to be great - do something worth for it, beside wining,

We all do, and have done for far over a year. Now were all just tired and angry pissed off. This was supposed to be our update, but the biggest change we were anticipating is a joke, and we got a huge unexpected nerf on top of it. Other classes ask for stuff and it gets done, DK's ask for stuff and we get nerfs or hare brained schemes that they insultingly consider a buff.

It is frustrating and happening for all classes almost every major update, however we can't deny with all those sneak peaks and developer's section of notes and some changes of long-standing problems that ZOS from full-ignorance mode started slowly shifting to partly listening community, very very slowly but still it happening. I would prefer not to see that small intention to be ruined.

Maybe they started listening but I actually don't want to fight another year for the next needed change. Sorcs complain, sorcs get *** done. Temps complain, bam changed. Dks complain.....silence...They don't even communicate with us in here which could calm things down a bit. At this point they act like they don't care. They said they would look at cdb again. Why don't talk to us in here then? Post suggestions, get feedback, THATS how you should run PTS. Not like: We patch every week and ignore you.

Even with the recent "increase" the communication from ZOS is bad...like VERY bad.

FloppyTouch

NBrookus wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

Wings is a HUGE loss to DK. It really is the iconic ability and needs to be fixed

Buffs this patch:
5% whips
Flame leap that is still underwhelming
Volatile Armor
Stonefist (meh)

Nerfs:
Wings
Standard
Heavy armor
Trainee
DW

Irrelevant:
Chains
Inferno
Iron Skin

Jury is out pending open world play:
CDB

Overall, I don't feel buffed.

Agreed I feel they nerfed us even more this is not a buff in any way and I just don't see how some of these people view this as balance or a buff they nerfed an already dead class is pvp even more. WE NEED A F$&King HEAL FIX CDB.

kookster

PTS Dragon blood doesnt help against gankers. If you are full on resources which is typically when a ganker attacks and they hit you, now you are low or dead, if not dead then you are probably about to die. But now since your only mDK heals are heals based off attacking after they end and a instant heal based off magika gone you cant really heal, and you will most likely die, every time.

Changes I would suggest:
Dragon Blood: Heal for 33% of your missing HP, You also gain Major Fortitude. this ability is not effected by battle spirit.(maybe even lower the % since battle spirit wont effect it anymore)
Green Dragon Blood: Same as Dragon Blood + gives you Major Intellect. (mDK already have a hard time with mag sustain since all our abilities cost so much, this would be a very enticing morph. Or you could have minor of both mag and stam, to appeal to both types )
Coagulated Blood: Same as Dragon Blood + minor vitality, and heal for 2% of your max hp every second for the duration of the ability. (another option would be to drop the vitality and increase the heal over time to like 4%)

I feel like all these changes in one ability would really address most of what we as mDK users are struggling with; sustain issues, no reliable heal. If you are having issues with sustain you can go with green blood(may want to rename it to blue dragon blood?). If you are having big healing issues you can go with coagulated blood.

jpeter88

I still think it comes down to some very small details that will make dks great again, we are not rewriting a book here, just need small tweaks.

1. Reliable heal- claws is a good burst heal but it is very situational. having to swipe and then try to swipe the same target to get a heal is just bad design. make this a HoT, even less of a heal would be better then the current state. dks are build around applying DoTs so why not have a HoT.

2. dragon blood- the heal for missing magicka is a very lazy change. keep it based off missing health with being able to crit would be better. id like them to see a magicka regen passive added to this that stacks with the major intellect you get from pots. this would be a good skill then if claws was made into a dot and give dks some much needed sustain issues.

3. horrible sustain- a slight magicka cost reduction across the board would be plenty to help to sustain imo.

Overall in a PVE stand point dks do very good damage. its just the fact that they have an insanely difficult rotation and the fact that after 2 rotations you are out of magic with 30 seconds until ulti is up. magicka dks are also considered melee in trials having to be close to the target to be effective. having to keep swiping for a heal messes up your rotation especially in most cases with being in light armor for damage u get hit once and you have to heal yourself again. They changed curse in thoughts of simplifying there rotation when sorcsc dont have a long hard to sustain rotation like mag dks. it just showes where there priorities are lol. i dont have any comments on other issues like wings etc because i dont pvp anymore on mag dk but that seems to be another well noted issue. The same goes for FoO being an AoE again, as it stands i dont like the current state that its mainly because the passive spell crit you get from the skill is pointless because you get it from pots and other skills.

MaxwellC

@Cinbri Mate we've been asking for changes since 1.6.5 after they dropped the bomb on us. We've asked for changes longer than ANY class. We've had the most nerfs in the class far more than any so we all get your frustration. Blame ZOS for listening to some feedback while ignoring the majority. Imagine how'd you feel if the old flash Templar ability was given to Mag NBs like what ZOS did with our flames of oblivion (giving it to sorcerers). Our ability was for standing our ground yet the highest mobility/sustain class gets it like wtf was that to us?

BlackMadara

I agree with @Cinbri. A lot of the so called "best" and "original" mDKs in here complain in a very unhelpful manner. No matter how long it's been, no matter how bad it's gotten, it doesn't excuse the whining.

Stay at least semi professional and respectful.

There are buffs this patch.

There are nerfs.

There are head scratchers.

Keep adding useful input if you want to. If you can't in a positive, or at least neutral, manner, them don't say anything at all. Put yourself in a dev's shoes. Would you want to check a tagged post if more than half of them were insults?

Sugaroverdose

Xvorg wrote: »

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

Currently burning embers is a way to damage on zero magicka staying alive, don't think it's good idea to rework them before giving sustain.

lol what does this even mean?

This stuff means that you can use them as way to healout on vipertremoscale *** without spending half of magicka to outheal damage from sets

You don't really play mDK do you? In a 1v1 scenario, yes, Embers is reliable. But in open world PvP where people are kiting/LOSing you while you have a couple of people spamming snipe from 40m away? Nahhh not so much.

If people kite and los you effectively you can't do anything, mobility isn't mdk strong part.
About snipe wings still reflect those, force shock nerf is bad, but still it's one of ways to teach people not to snipe you.

Wings do not reflect snipe because they are as bugged as hell.

Currently wings are used to reflect destro reach or a stupid sorc spaming frags at a mDK. Since you can't see the snipes, you cannot use it reactively. And being proactive leaves you with zero magicka.

Evenmoar, the good archers count 2 missippies after they see a dk spamming wings, hit snipe, weave a light attack, poison inject and dodge roll, so, if the mdk received at least 2 hits when wings were up before your combo, and you are lucky, your poison inject and your LA are projectiles 3-4 (reflected), then your snipe hit is a clear one. Obviously if the mdk got moar than 2 hits you can connect the whole combo in some cases. And dodgeroll prevents you from being hurt from your own attacks.

If you don't run wings, how can you say that they does not reflect something? I run them and see a lot of snipe spammers killing themselves.

Kilandros wrote: »

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

Currently burning embers is a way to damage on zero magicka staying alive, don't think it's good idea to rework them before giving sustain.

lol what does this even mean?

This stuff means that you can use them as way to healout on vipertremoscale *** without spending half of magicka to outheal damage from sets

You don't really play mDK do you? In a 1v1 scenario, yes, Embers is reliable. But in open world PvP where people are kiting/LOSing you while you have a couple of people spamming snipe from 40m away? Nahhh not so much.

If people kite and los you effectively you can't do anything, mobility isn't mdk strong part.
About snipe wings still reflect those, force shock nerf is bad, but still it's one of ways to teach people not to snipe you.

My point is that if we had a heal that wasn't dependent upon the target being right in front of us it wouldn't be as big a deal with people LOSing and kiting us. You clearly don't play mDK.

Your point should be about CDB in this case, embers does deal not that bad damage and burst heal from them does save asses even when you're not dueling.

Yep, i'm only pretending playing, what could i say vs pro mdk opinion?

Anhedonie

Joy_Division wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Veg wrote: »

@Wrobel Dragon leap cannot be cast while rooted. Rich said that it should break all cc including roots but it doesn't break roots. Trap beast, encase and talons still stop us from using our ultimate.

Just read the description to the changes done to backlash to understand that Wrobel just care about one class in this game.

You are confusing sorcerers for templars.

Or did you need read the new Curse and blazing Spear changes?

Nope, I was just looking at the way he refers to the change. The change to whip does not "open up a lot of exciting possibilities" for mDKs.

Now, about what they are really doing... IDK.

Well, he has said things such as "Don't worry DKs, your buffs are coming" before the Thieve's Guild and similar glowingly optimistic utterances before this patch.

I just stopped taking them seriously. But all those "incoming DK Overlord" prognosticators still take what he says seriously.

It's like reversed psychology. If Wrobel says he's gonna buff DK, then start quoting that dude from the office.

MaxwellC

@Sugaroverdose
There has been countless discussion regarding the DK wings after IC it has been broken lol. I remember making a thread about it when meteors used to be reflect-able but suddenly after the thread got a lot of heat well... meteors don't reflect anymore because it's an ultimate. That was according to someone from ZOS who posted on the forum or stated it on ESO live, funny thing is Overload still reflects and so does the ranged ultimate in the bow category just not meteors.

If you check through-out my history I'm sure you'll find it with people posting videos showing it; I vaguely remember someone showing a video where a crystal frag went through his wings in PvP... so yeah. Each patch notes after it has not suggested or stated that the bug with wings has been fixed.

silverhammer92

Chadwikid wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

Wana your beloved class to be great - do something worth for it, beside wining,

There is a 20 page document to the delves with a detailed breakdown of the issues that plague mDK and an almost innumerable number of suggestions on how to go about fixing them. It was put together with the help of all of the remaining PvP mDk's, myself included, the most vocal and visible and probably one of if not the best, mDK left in the game. Out of all those suggestions ONE was implemented. The rest of this nonsense is indeed some nonsense that ZoS just pulled out of the bum.

That's not to mention a year and a half of complaining and suggestions. Countless upon countless mDk threads about the same things over and over. Asking every PTS for help. Videos highlighting problems. Not to mention the raw statistical numbers that some have posted here in this thread showing the massive difference in mDK in PvP versus any other class.

Then we get told flat out we are getting buffed this patch. they are going to fix us. Promises were made and then we get this steaming pile of horse dung, and you have the nerve to come in here and tell us that we are whining. GTFO kid.

If you don't have anything helpful to add to this conversation then don't add anything

Can you link the document? I'm interested what the suggestions have been back then

Chadwikid

@silverhammer92

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Y7g3egZd5z0Sstn0XKKy7cznavWqoezpfQypLOz7kbY/edit?usp=sharing

caperon

Chadwikid wrote: »

@silverhammer92

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Y7g3egZd5z0Sstn0XKKy7cznavWqoezpfQypLOz7kbY/edit?usp=sharing

To be honest, some of the changes are inline with this doc, like flame leap, increased whip damage, hardened armor changes, hell even is proposed there to make dragon blood it scale of magicka. I think that ZOS intention was good and they listen more than we think, but they missed the shot and in general they are like 6 month too slow in make changes.