PTS Feedback Thread for Dragonknight Balance Improvements

Adenoma · January 2017

I can see using rattle cage if I were in a CP campaign. In no-CP I'm having a hard time imagining not running Seducer/BSW/Bloodspawn. And in CP it's hard to imagine not running Tava's/BSW/Bloodspawn. Especially considering that cDB will scale with the increased spell power from BSW and the Silks of the Sun won't affect it.

Stalwart385 · January 2017

Areloth wrote: »

Stalwart385 wrote: »

Looks like its bugged. I'm getting the base heal no matter what my health is.

Not a good setup but 2k SD and 28.5 Mag is giving me a 6.5k base heal outside cyrodil. That is with 50 blessed and 50 quick recovery.

Can it still crit?

Yes

caperon · January 2017

Stalwart385 wrote: »

Areloth wrote: »

Stalwart385 wrote: »

Looks like its bugged. I'm getting the base heal no matter what my health is.

Not a good setup but 2k SD and 28.5 Mag is giving me a 6.5k base heal outside cyrodil. That is with 50 blessed and 50 quick recovery.

Can it still crit?

Yes

So lets say its 3k base in cyro up to 7-8k for a dd build in cyro with the ability to crit, seems ok. If you really build for it can be really good now I think, specially if you use igneous before.

Kilandros · January 2017

Areloth wrote: »

Stalwart385 wrote: »

Looks like its bugged. I'm getting the base heal no matter what my health is.

Not a good setup but 2k SD and 28.5 Mag is giving me a 6.5k base heal outside cyrodil. That is with 50 blessed and 50 quick recovery.

Can it still crit?

yeah

Armitas · January 2017

Stalwart385 wrote: »

Looks like its bugged. I'm getting the base heal no matter what my health is.

Not a good setup but 2k SD and 28.5 Mag is giving me a 6.5k base heal outside cyrodil. That is with 50 blessed and 50 quick recovery.

Thanks for posting. Assuming you are not bugged toward 33% that is a really solid heal.

Stalwart385 · January 2017

caperon wrote: »

Stalwart385 wrote: »

Areloth wrote: »

Stalwart385 wrote: »

Looks like its bugged. I'm getting the base heal no matter what my health is.

Not a good setup but 2k SD and 28.5 Mag is giving me a 6.5k base heal outside cyrodil. That is with 50 blessed and 50 quick recovery.

Can it still crit?

Yes

So lets say its 3k base in cyro up to 7-8k for a dd build in cyro with the ability to crit, seems ok. If you really build for it can be really good now I think.

Yeah, looks like 7-8k is the high end with a crit and really low health. Running quick numbers, thats not really better than a 25-30k health build running gDB. Hope we can test it better before it goes live. Big difference is it can allow you to ignore max health and stack mag. Not sold yet, but the skill is setup well now.

lucky_Sage · January 2017

Neighbor wrote: »

Stalwart385 wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Neighbor wrote: »

The good: Coagulating Blood should finally be good

The bad: All of the other problems DKs face still exist.

The ugly: Heavy Armor, Trainee, and Desert Rose all getting massive nerfs. There isn't anything for mDK's to actually wear.

Black Rose + Sun

Rattlecage is a good set also. You can run that with black rose, desert rose, bloodthorn, seducer, or anything like that really.

Wearing Rattlecage on a DK just feels wrong to me. We literally get a skill that gives us major sorcery already. Isn't it easier for you to just run Molten Weapons?

@Neighbor

I really like rattlecage on my dk I like the free slot I like it better than BSW. I'm just wondering if light armor is going to be better next update than heavy armor

Sharee · January 2017

5 pieces heavy armor, 4% quick recovery, 5% blessed
35985 magicka
28622 health
2013 spell damage
major mending up
(i hope i didn't forget some source of + healing)

Flat heal value in cyrodiil 5391. Crit was 8356(will vary with your crit values ofc).
Heal scales with both max health and max magicka pools(magicka seems to matter more).
Heal does not scale with max health, this was my mistake (used structured entropy to increase HP and forgot it also increased magicka due to MG passive - thats why the heal went up)

Stamden · January 2017

lucky_Sage wrote: »

lucky_Sage wrote: »

Vanzen wrote: »

WINGS !!!!

How is it possible that this nerf isnt causing the uproar it should.

Dont you realise that Vs sorc it will be hell ?!

cause no one uses that crappy spell anymore cause its a god awful

Neighbor wrote: »

Stalwart385 wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Neighbor wrote: »

The good: Coagulating Blood should finally be good

The bad: All of the other problems DKs face still exist.

The ugly: Heavy Armor, Trainee, and Desert Rose all getting massive nerfs. There isn't anything for mDK's to actually wear.

Black Rose + Sun

Rattlecage is a good set also. You can run that with black rose, desert rose, bloodthorn, seducer, or anything like that really.

Wearing Rattlecage on a DK just feels wrong to me. We literally get a skill that gives us major sorcery already. Isn't it easier for you to just run Molten Weapons?

@Neighbor

I really like rattlecage on my dk I like the free slot I like it better than BSW. I'm just wondering if light armor is going to be better next update than heavy armor

I don't think running light armor is ever ideal in open world PvP on a class with lackluster mobility and no escape. However, it seems like the "I am going to outsustain you and kill you" builds are getting hit super hard this patch (Black Rose, Desert Rose, Trainee, Heavy armor as a whole).

So unfortunately, I think we are going to have to go with light armor and try to burst people down, which on a DK is easier said then done.

Stalwart385 · January 2017

Sharee wrote: »

5 pieces heavy armor, 4% quick recovery, 5% blessed
35985 magicka
28622 health
2013 spell damage
major mending up
(i hope i didn't forget some source of + healing)

Flat heal value in cyrodiil 5391. Crit was 8356(will vary with your crit values ofc).
Heal scales with both max health and max magicka pools(magicka seems to matter more).

Oh wow that base jumped up nicely. That looks a little better.

Sigtric · January 2017

Coag definitely sounding better

Gonna have to try it

Belicourt · January 2017

I hit 10k heal in. Cyro. My health was low ( dont remember where) 2.3k sd and 36k mag.

Zeuq · January 2017

Lol at all of you thinking coagulating is bad
wtf?
lol

NBrookus · January 2017

Put together a quick setup. 5 heavy +1 +1 (Rattlecage + Trainee + Grothdarr.. prob not ideal but for testing purposes.)

2650 spell dmg
33600 max magicka
24100 max health (outside cyro)
50 points in Blessed (15.4%)
50 points in Quick Recovery (10.5%)

Both screen shots at full health. These tooltip values aren't bad.

Without igneous:

With igneous:

Another setup with more max magicka, less spell damage but realistic recovery numbers. Rattlecage + Spinners + Grothdarr, still 5+1+1

2180 spell dmg
38400 max mag
18800 max health (non Cyro)
same CP

Without igneous:

With igneous:

With those two trial setups, the heal numbers really aren't that far off despite some pretty different stat numbers. This makes me think that there is some wide latitude for building for health/max Mag/spell damage but still getting a similar heal. While the heal is no BoL, when combined with Power Lash and Burning Embers heals, it seems pretty solid on paper.

Xvorg · January 2017

NBrookus wrote: »

Put together a quick setup. 5 heavy +1 +1 (Rattlecage + Trainee + Grothdarr.. prob not ideal but for testing purposes.)

2650 spell dmg
33600 max magicka
24100 max health (outside cyro)
50 points in Blessed (15.4%)
50 points in Quick Recovery (10.5%)

Both screen shots at full health. These tooltip values aren't bad.

Without igneous:

With igneous:

Another setup with more max magicka, less spell damage but realistic recovery numbers. Rattlecage + Spinners + Grothdarr, still 5+1+1

2180 spell dmg
38400 max mag
18800 max health (non Cyro)
same CP

Without igneous:

With igneous:

With those two trial setups, the heal numbers really aren't that far off despite some pretty different stat numbers. This makes me think that there is some wide latitude for building for health/max Mag/spell damage but still getting a similar heal. While the heal is no BoL, when combined with Power Lash and Burning Embers heals, it seems pretty solid on paper.

Just keep volatile up to get 12% extra healing.

NBrookus · January 2017

Xvorg wrote: »

NBrookus wrote: »

Put together a quick setup. 5 heavy +1 +1 (Rattlecage + Trainee + Grothdarr.. prob not ideal but for testing purposes.)

2650 spell dmg
33600 max magicka
24100 max health (outside cyro)
50 points in Blessed (15.4%)
50 points in Quick Recovery (10.5%)

Both screen shots at full health. These tooltip values aren't bad.

Without igneous:

With igneous:

Another setup with more max magicka, less spell damage but realistic recovery numbers. Rattlecage + Spinners + Grothdarr, still 5+1+1

2180 spell dmg
38400 max mag
18800 max health (non Cyro)
same CP

Without igneous:

With igneous:

With those two trial setups, the heal numbers really aren't that far off despite some pretty different stat numbers. This makes me think that there is some wide latitude for building for health/max Mag/spell damage but still getting a similar heal. While the heal is no BoL, when combined with Power Lash and Burning Embers heals, it seems pretty solid on paper.

Just keep volatile up to get 12% extra healing.

I don't think Burning Heart will give you anything extra when using CDB, since CDB is in the same tree and should proc the passive anyway?

Grumble_and_Grunt · January 2017

DB Healed better when scaled of missing magicka...

Sigtric · January 2017

Grumble_and_Grunt wrote: »

DB Healed better when scaled of missing magicka...

It might have scaled higher but was very unreliable. I'd rather have a solid heal I know I can get at any time.

Grumble_and_Grunt · January 2017

@Sigtric reliable but not effective, a reliable 4/5k heal for the cost isn't even much better than it is on live. Magicka DK are always low on magicka for most part, embers being the primary heal and DB the burst heal.

The heal based on missing magicka was imo much better. On paper the change looked OP, but in reality I would prefer they revert to the previous change.

I feel like too many people QQ on forums without testing (not assuming is the case with you) and now this change has had a negative effect on the skill once again, the missing magicka heal was agreed awkward, but in combat, under the usual scenarios a magicka DK faces, it synergised really well, now it's poop again.

Really need to wait on the fix for the 33% missing health to see how well it heals with this included, then it perhaps may be the DB we were all wishing for, but can not test that atm since most have their DB already IV and therefore not able to see.

Chadwikid · January 2017

Do we have any actual numbers when at low health in cyrodil with a standard setup?

Xvorg · January 2017

NBrookus wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

NBrookus wrote: »

Put together a quick setup. 5 heavy +1 +1 (Rattlecage + Trainee + Grothdarr.. prob not ideal but for testing purposes.)

2650 spell dmg
33600 max magicka
24100 max health (outside cyro)
50 points in Blessed (15.4%)
50 points in Quick Recovery (10.5%)

Both screen shots at full health. These tooltip values aren't bad.

Without igneous:

With igneous:

Another setup with more max magicka, less spell damage but realistic recovery numbers. Rattlecage + Spinners + Grothdarr, still 5+1+1

2180 spell dmg
38400 max mag
18800 max health (non Cyro)
same CP

Without igneous:

With igneous:

With those two trial setups, the heal numbers really aren't that far off despite some pretty different stat numbers. This makes me think that there is some wide latitude for building for health/max Mag/spell damage but still getting a similar heal. While the heal is no BoL, when combined with Power Lash and Burning Embers heals, it seems pretty solid on paper.

Just keep volatile up to get 12% extra healing.

I don't think Burning Heart will give you anything extra when using CDB, since CDB is in the same tree and should proc the passive anyway?

good point

Stamden · January 2017

Chadwikid wrote: »

Do we have any actual numbers when at low health in cyrodil with a standard setup?

Due to the rank IV bug I don't think we can actually get any real numbers. But it looks like the base heal is around 3-4k in Cyrodiil. Hopefully with lower health having an impact the heal becomes significantly stronger, because right now this is not that different than it is on live.

Areloth · January 2017

Do I understand that skill correctly?
You have a fix heal which scales to your max magicka and spelldamage.
Lets just say this flat value is 10.000
This value can be increased by up to 33% depending on my missing health?
So if I am really on low HP the heal would be max. 13.333, correct?

And it can still crit?
Means I get like 66% more + 12% volatile + 5% other cps = 8.333 in cyrodiil crit?
Well, I play light armor and have 4800 spelldamage and 42.000 Magicka and not that much HP, so this is pretty much the best what could happen to light armor burst dks?

If I play it on my dualwield bar I don't need a defensive bar anymore? Dual wield +destro hello!

usmcjdking · January 2017

Good change to CDB. Good change to leap not going through roots as well.

I think MDK overlord will be a thing, but that's more of a function of Heavy Armor still being blatantly OP than MDK.

HoloYoitsu · January 2017

Chadwikid · January 2017

Neighbor wrote: »

Chadwikid wrote: »

Do we have any actual numbers when at low health in cyrodil with a standard setup?

Due to the rank IV bug I don't think we can actually get any real numbers. But it looks like the base heal is around 3-4k in Cyrodiil. Hopefully with lower health having an impact the heal becomes significantly stronger, because right now this is not that different than it is on live.

If it's hitting a base number of 3-4K before scaling then I don't see how it can not be better. I'm lucky if I get 5k almost dead on love. It can now crit as well. The question is, will it be better enough.

Veg · January 2017

Dragon blood change isnt crazy. Im getting the same healing from it as i do on live. Only difference is now im not missing 38k health to get my 8-9k heal. Now im only missing 15k health.

MrGorv · January 2017

Nice changes for both of morphs there. Good job, ZOS. Thank you.

Adenoma · January 2017

Just a reminder for all the testers - rank IV (which I assume most are using) doesn't add in the up to 33% of missing health. So you can assume that those heals will be a little larger than they currently are.

KaiDynasty · January 2017

ZOS said the heal must be used when it was needed. When the flat value is 8k (buffed by major mending), in cyro is 4k, at full health, when you are at 50% of health (and you have 27k of health) this means you can 33% of 13500 = 4450 health (not buffed by major mending, 5700 buffed).
5700 + 4000 = 9k health at 50% of life, so 13 500 + 9 = 22500 health, this is a good buff IMO, considering you are at 50% of life, out of execute range and without major vitality active and the 12% healing received extra from draconic power passives, so.. using the math it doesn't seem bad, a crit can go for 13500 at 50% of life (27k max health), i don't understand the complains, it is a reliable heal right now, and to say the true i prefer this then a heal that could troll me if i got ganked..