PTS Feedback Thread for Dragonknight Balance Improvements

MaxwellC · January 2017

I feel this is interesting... a lot of people here have requested a lot of things but the most common ones are Flames of Oblivion being an AoE with a new effect like increased DoT damage and cDB/gDB scaling off of Max health/Max Mag or Stam (for gDB). Some have requested gDB provide x amount of stamina over time instead of increased stam recovery but the two Flames of Oblivion being an AoE and cDB are consistently talked about yet we do not get an 'outcry' change that @ZOS_RichLambert gave to sorcerers. I feel that isn't fair I mean there's so many people talking about it and requesting it yet no response at all

Master_Kas · January 2017

At this point, it seems like ZOS either are trolling magdks OR afraid that they will be as OP as they once was (which they wont since no dynamic ult and stamreg while blocking).

ZoM_Head · January 2017

Master_Kas wrote: »

At this point, it seems like ZOS either are trolling magdks OR afraid that they will be as OP as they once was (which they wont since no dynamic ult and stamreg while blocking).

OP as before? What do you think magicka templars are like now? Or stamina nightblades?

Correction, since Imperial City update.

Veg · January 2017

@Wrobel Dragon leap cannot be cast while rooted. Rich said that it should break all cc including roots but it doesn't break roots. Trap beast, encase and talons still stop us from using our ultimate.

Master_Kas · January 2017

ZoM_Head wrote: »

Master_Kas wrote: »

At this point, it seems like ZOS either are trolling magdks OR afraid that they will be as OP as they once was (which they wont since no dynamic ult and stamreg while blocking).

OP as before? What do you think magicka templars are like now? Or stamina nightblades?

Correction, since Imperial City update.

Yeah OP like before 1.6

Don't get me wrong, not saying magdk is in a good spot right now. Except in duels.

KaiDynasty · January 2017

Ishammael wrote: »

Adenoma wrote: »

Change burning embers to a HoT, make cDB ignore battle spirit, add a major defile passive to ardent flame, and reduce costs across the board a tiny amount. Boom. I would be happy with that. I miss wings, but I can live without them (I have for a while). I wish inferno were PBAOE (eliminates the issue of purges), but I'm not so naive to hope for that.

In my dreams major/minor expedition is added to wings.

Major defile is on Standard... and is too strong for a spammable anyway. Minor defile sounds about right though.

If burning embers were to become a HoT it would just need to be scaled down a touch. Maybe like Entropy?

Agreed on cDB.

Wings is a HUGE loss to DK. It really is the iconic ability and needs to be fixed.

I don't think players really appreciate yet how much unreflectable crushing shock will change things. Way too strong. It costs next to nothing, gets staff plus passive penetration, and +8% on fire. I bet the tooltip on well-geared sorc is pushing 10k -- an ability which has 40m range and interupts ppl.

Regarding major defile only, it should be a passive but not that grant a 100% proc chance, it should be something like burning light (has a % to proc on damage) or something like that. Minor defile it look an option, but i feel it's not enough, if you want to don't let your dot get outhealing by a major mending + vigor combo (at the moment when i stack 2/3 dots this happen, with minor defile I think it would be the same), so mabye give a chance to apply major defile as passive of ardent flame abilities it would be better, Warmth is the passive that really need a rework, I really don't feel the target snared in pvp, and imo change it to instead apply major defile it would be better, IMO.

Burning embers. it's a hot key, atm this is the only "reliable" heal dks have, if they fix dragon blood, they can do something on embers ofc, like a hot or a small hot + final heal (like rally, mabye tho)

Sugaroverdose · January 2017

Ishammael wrote: »

Adenoma wrote: »

Change burning embers to a HoT, make cDB ignore battle spirit, add a major defile passive to ardent flame, and reduce costs across the board a tiny amount. Boom. I would be happy with that. I miss wings, but I can live without them (I have for a while). I wish inferno were PBAOE (eliminates the issue of purges), but I'm not so naive to hope for that.

In my dreams major/minor expedition is added to wings.

Major defile is on Standard... and is too strong for a spammable anyway. Minor defile sounds about right though.

If burning embers were to become a HoT it would just need to be scaled down a touch. Maybe like Entropy?

Agreed on cDB.

Wings is a HUGE loss to DK. It really is the iconic ability and needs to be fixed.

I don't think players really appreciate yet how much unreflectable crushing shock will change things. Way too strong. It costs next to nothing, gets staff plus passive penetration, and +8% on fire. I bet the tooltip on well-geared sorc is pushing 10k -- an ability which has 40m range and interupts ppl.

Currently burning embers is a way to damage on zero magicka staying alive, don't think it's good idea to rework them before giving sustain.

MaxwellC wrote: »

@Sugaroverdose actually no there were 3 players over 260CP but if you want a even better video I will give you that. The point of the video is that even out numbered and everyone focused on me those players were not competent or classed correctly to deal with me. They had 1 maxed CP player there and 2 healers no one stunned me consistently or slowed me consistently.

Edited: to remove videos here's a link to my profile where you can look up videos on me fighting and judge the performance http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/Maxwell/videos
Reasoning: I felt I was being too arrogant as this is about DK changes I should only be focused on that but instead got focused on getting my point across instead of looking for ways to promote the much needed changes the DK class as a whole needs.

You're not focused in those vid' you've dodged ~5 attack in start, and get damage from around 6 which actually didn't even get half of your health

Just your vid http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/Maxwell/video/25414828 this video actually shows why mDK berform bad: just because everyone around are overbuffed, everyone have insane heal even without being healer, stamsorcs also have infinite sustain, etc. Again, it's other classes who should be nerfed, not mDK buffed.

Kilandros · January 2017

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

Currently burning embers is a way to damage on zero magicka staying alive, don't think it's good idea to rework them before giving sustain.

lol what does this even mean?

MaxwellC · January 2017

@KaiDynasty
It can't be a thing mate and that's something I will hold true to. Minor defile would have to be a ability applied to fiery breath/noxious breath or obsidian shard/stone giant (which would make these abilities used more often). Having it as a passive would create a great deal of balance issues and I feel that just those 4 abilities should have it if applied more so the obsidian shard/stone giant as noxious n fiery breath both have a debuff/buff on them.

Burning embers can just heal the amount it's suppose to heal but this time overtime when they fix dragon's blood that is (both versions).

I will preach again... Flames of Oblivion needs to be an AoE that provides increased DoT damage (DK specific not all around) while giving us our critical buffs n applying flame damage. It was the soul of dragon knights back then and unfortunately it was taken away from us. @ZOS_RichLambert @Wrobel Please I've been tagging you guys forever since we hadn't had a response regarding our outcry in this thread, in my thread regarding flames of oblivion specifically, and in many other DK related threads. A large majority wants this ability to be an AoE again as it has great properties for both variant mag/stam when it comes to PvP and PvE content.

MaxwellC · January 2017

When DKs were beats to be afraid of... brings a tear to my eye

Jeez... just seeing my old flames of oblivion AoE in action... the chills.

https://youtu.be/fq-gGNYBe3I

Sugaroverdose · January 2017

Kilandros wrote: »

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

Currently burning embers is a way to damage on zero magicka staying alive, don't think it's good idea to rework them before giving sustain.

lol what does this even mean?

This stuff means that you can use them as way to healout on vipertremoscale *** without spending half of magicka to outheal damage from sets

Kilandros · January 2017

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

Currently burning embers is a way to damage on zero magicka staying alive, don't think it's good idea to rework them before giving sustain.

lol what does this even mean?

This stuff means that you can use them as way to healout on vipertremoscale *** without spending half of magicka to outheal damage from sets

You don't really play mDK do you? In a 1v1 scenario, yes, Embers is reliable. But in open world PvP where people are kiting/LOSing you while you have a couple of people spamming snipe from 40m away? Nahhh not so much.

Sugaroverdose · January 2017

Kilandros wrote: »

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

Currently burning embers is a way to damage on zero magicka staying alive, don't think it's good idea to rework them before giving sustain.

lol what does this even mean?

This stuff means that you can use them as way to healout on vipertremoscale *** without spending half of magicka to outheal damage from sets

You don't really play mDK do you? In a 1v1 scenario, yes, Embers is reliable. But in open world PvP where people are kiting/LOSing you while you have a couple of people spamming snipe from 40m away? Nahhh not so much.

If people kite and los you effectively you can't do anything, mobility isn't mdk strong part.
About snipe wings still reflect those, force shock nerf is bad, but still it's one of ways to teach people not to snipe you.

Xvorg · January 2017

Veg wrote: »

@Wrobel Dragon leap cannot be cast while rooted. Rich said that it should break all cc including roots but it doesn't break roots. Trap beast, encase and talons still stop us from using our ultimate.

Just read the description to the changes done to backlash to understand that Wrobel just care about one class in this game.

Kilandros · January 2017

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

Currently burning embers is a way to damage on zero magicka staying alive, don't think it's good idea to rework them before giving sustain.

lol what does this even mean?

This stuff means that you can use them as way to healout on vipertremoscale *** without spending half of magicka to outheal damage from sets

You don't really play mDK do you? In a 1v1 scenario, yes, Embers is reliable. But in open world PvP where people are kiting/LOSing you while you have a couple of people spamming snipe from 40m away? Nahhh not so much.

If people kite and los you effectively you can't do anything, mobility isn't mdk strong part.
About snipe wings still reflect those, force shock nerf is bad, but still it's one of ways to teach people not to snipe you.

My point is that if we had a heal that wasn't dependent upon the target being right in front of us it wouldn't be as big a deal with people LOSing and kiting us. You clearly don't play mDK.

Xvorg · January 2017

MaxwellC wrote: »

When DKs were beats to be afraid of... brings a tear to my eye Jeez... just seeing my old flames of oblivion AoE in action... the chills.
https://youtu.be/fq-gGNYBe3I

Though I support the return of FOO to what it used to be... IDK how will be the synergy between it and EoS.

Nevertheless, I think the combo boundless storm + EoS in a sorc will be always stronger.

MaxwellC · January 2017

@Xvorg
There are plenty of counters to players using eye of the storm. I typically fossilize and wait a few seconds or if they're on top of me I hold block and cc them while healing through it. Others can mitigate with ultimates like nova or negate and veil. I really want Flames of oblivion back as an AoE like the thought of it's return has me excited.

Xvorg · January 2017

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

Currently burning embers is a way to damage on zero magicka staying alive, don't think it's good idea to rework them before giving sustain.

lol what does this even mean?

This stuff means that you can use them as way to healout on vipertremoscale *** without spending half of magicka to outheal damage from sets

You don't really play mDK do you? In a 1v1 scenario, yes, Embers is reliable. But in open world PvP where people are kiting/LOSing you while you have a couple of people spamming snipe from 40m away? Nahhh not so much.

If people kite and los you effectively you can't do anything, mobility isn't mdk strong part.
About snipe wings still reflect those, force shock nerf is bad, but still it's one of ways to teach people not to snipe you.

Wings do not reflect snipe because they are as bugged as hell.

Currently wings are used to reflect destro reach or a stupid sorc spaming frags at a mDK. Since you can't see the snipes, you cannot use it reactively. And being proactive leaves you with zero magicka.

Evenmoar, the good archers count 2 missippies after they see a dk spamming wings, hit snipe, weave a light attack, poison inject and dodge roll, so, if the mdk received at least 2 hits when wings were up before your combo, and you are lucky, your poison inject and your LA are projectiles 3-4 (reflected), then your snipe hit is a clear one. Obviously if the mdk got moar than 2 hits you can connect the whole combo in some cases. And dodgeroll prevents you from being hurt from your own attacks.

Glory · January 2017

Woeler wrote: »

KaiDynasty wrote: »

As someone say, a dk execute is useless, and a real DK don't want it, same devs.
What a magicka DK must have to be on pair to otehr classes is:
1- *DoTs that apply MAJOR DEFILE, they want magicka DK rely on DoTs to pressure an enemy, but in the current state of the game, they are useless. They get cleanse, they get OUTHEALED, this is not possible! If I put 3 dots on an enemy (and I am using 3 skill slots just to pressure 1 enemy), they must do something, but right now, they get outhealed by everything. Major Defile is what Magicka dk need, PVP will be influenced, PVE won't be touched because major defile is useless on mobs!
2- COAGULATING BLOOD still need to be reviewed, I don't know with what, but since DK already have a BAD healing, i don't get why make it worse, we already spend a lot of magicka to use basic skills, and ok a DK with bad regeneration will get a good heal, but, after i heal my self, where is my magicka? I won't be able to heal again my self for a while (YEAH I HAVE ULT AND POTS EVERY 45 SEC), so for 45 secs I won't be able to do damage and heal, i just can hope to hold block for 45 seconds.. guys and ZOS, this is how it will be the things.. You really want to force a class to run out of resources to get a heal and then don't be able to get back resources to continue the fight?This is jjust a mechanic that is good to think about it, but in practice isn't possible.
Rework coagulating dragonblood for something else (I won't ask 0 cost on a heal, because is insane and it means endless heals when on low magicka, there are many options, HoT, heal that scale on max pool (magicka or health), heal that have a basic value + a % value based on missing magicka or health, heal that cleans and ignore cyrodiil debuff. choose or make a new one but that is decent, not a troll, I DON'T WANT A COPY OF BoL).
@Woeler @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RichLambert
I doubt you will make changes in time.. but keep these advices, because is what a mDK lack.

God how many times do I have to state this: I AM NOT A ZOS EMPLOYEE, STOP MENTIONING ME.

lol poor Woeler...

Ishammael wrote: »

Wings is a HUGE loss to DK. It really is the iconic ability and needs to be fixed.

I don't think players really appreciate yet how much unreflectable crushing shock will change things. Way too strong. It costs next to nothing, gets staff plus passive penetration, and +8% on fire. I bet the tooltip on well-geared sorc is pushing 10k -- an ability which has 40m range and interupts ppl.

I have been playing lately without reflect because I'm trying to prepare myself for how awful the changes will be. What's the point in running a skill that can reflect basically just crystal fragments, snipe, and poison injection?

Xvorg · January 2017

MaxwellC wrote: »

@Xvorg
There are plenty of counters to players using eye of the storm. I typically fossilize and wait a few seconds or if they're on top of me I hold block and cc them while healing through it. Others can mitigate with ultimates like nova or negate and veil. I really want Flames of oblivion back as an AoE like the thought of it's return has me excited.

Of course there are a lot of counters to EoS, talons + banner is one of them, fossilize. What I am concerned about is the synergy between that ulti and a supposed FOO (which is paper seems strong). Nevertheless, if ZoS replies that they don't want to change it, we could telle them that Sorcs already have that synergy and nobody complains about.

Just think how much dmg they are going to do with a lit staff, boundless and eos.

MaxwellC · January 2017

@Xvorg
I rarely see sorcs running that when they use eye of the storm, they usually spam hard ward, nightblades spam sap essence, templars spam breath of life, and mag dks well they spam deep breath.
If zos says they can't because of having a class act similar well my answer to that is to take away hurricane since that wasn't a sorcerer move nor does it fit sorcerers who are built around mobility while we're suppose to stand our ground. Hurricane is a stand your ground ability and thus shouldn't be applied to sorcerers from the get go.

NBrookus · January 2017

ebethke_ESO wrote: »

I have been playing lately without reflect because I'm trying to prepare myself for how awful the changes will be. What's the point in running a skill that can reflect basically just crystal fragments, snipe, and poison injection?

You aren't reflecting an animation cancelled invisible poison injection unless you have wings up proactively, which will suck your magicka dry. Or can anticipate when they might work it in, if you are lucky enough to be fighting one or two. And snipe goes right through wings most of the time. Even with its current inadequacies, running without Wings really leaves you vulnerable to range attacks with no counter play.

We'll still be able to reflect overload -- watching a sorc murder themselves is good fun -- but with the nerf to overload I'm not sure if we'll see fewer overload sorcs or more common overload shots because players aren't saving it up.

Then again, why bother when they can weave crushing shock and there's not a damn thing we can do about it: can't reflect it, gap closer doesn't work, no ranged damage of our own and we don't have strong shields or heals to mitigate.

Xvorg · January 2017

MaxwellC wrote: »

@Xvorg
I rarely see sorcs running that when they use eye of the storm, they usually spam hard ward, nightblades spam sap essence, templars spam breath of life, and mag dks well they spam deep breath.
If zos says they can't because of having a class act similar well my answer to that is to take away hurricane since that wasn't a sorcerer move nor does it fit sorcerers who are built around mobility while we're suppose to stand our ground. Hurricane is a stand your ground ability and thus shouldn't be applied to sorcerers from the get go.

We all agree that Hurricane is ZoS Frankenstein, but it was a solution to a problem stamsorcs had. It was a good solutions... a bit OP, but in general broughyt back a class that was crap.

Can we have some love in the same form? As I've mentioned here, I want any kind of defile (minor/major) with an easy access. 250 Ulti to get major defile in stationary attack, that MUST be casted where you are standing, is a mock to all DKs.

Negate, Attronach, Nova, Elemental Rage, Meteor have their 28 mts range. And only Nova costs the same than SoM

Joy_Division · January 2017

Xvorg wrote: »

Veg wrote: »

@Wrobel Dragon leap cannot be cast while rooted. Rich said that it should break all cc including roots but it doesn't break roots. Trap beast, encase and talons still stop us from using our ultimate.

Just read the description to the changes done to backlash to understand that Wrobel just care about one class in this game.

You are confusing sorcerers for templars.

Or did you need read the new Curse and blazing Spear changes?

Xvorg · January 2017

Joy_Division wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Veg wrote: »

@Wrobel Dragon leap cannot be cast while rooted. Rich said that it should break all cc including roots but it doesn't break roots. Trap beast, encase and talons still stop us from using our ultimate.

Just read the description to the changes done to backlash to understand that Wrobel just care about one class in this game.

You are confusing sorcerers for templars.

Or did you need read the new Curse and blazing Spear changes?

Nope, I was just looking at the way he refers to the change. The change to whip does not "open up a lot of exciting possibilities" for mDKs.

Now, about what they are really doing... IDK.

Armitas · January 2017

ebethke_ESO wrote: »

I have been playing lately without reflect because I'm trying to prepare myself for how awful the changes will be. What's the point in running a skill that can reflect basically just crystal fragments, snipe, and poison injection?

Same. Not even poison injection because it can be cast with 0 animation whatsoever.

OrphanHelgen · January 2017

Would like to add, that every class that is good in AOE situations, will be even better next patch due to free minor vulnerability on adds, which again raise the cap between magicka and stamina.

KaiDynasty · January 2017

Guys talk about magicka DK, not about other classes, there are 3 other threads to talk about them.

Airyus · January 2017

NBrookus wrote: »

Neighbor wrote: »

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

Neighbor wrote: »

CubanRay wrote: »

@MaxwellC GDB is completely useless as it is right now,maybe meh imo ,well at least they increased the AP so I guess is vigor or nothing,as a newish I am I thought this game is good when I started but the more you play the more you realize how broken it is.
I don't know why but I have the feeling that this patch is going to rip stamina builds.

The problem with GDB is also the stam bonus is the same one as stam pots, making the bonus pretty useless.

Unmorphed dragons blood is your best option, save the skill point.

Not playing a DK is your best option, save the time and effort.

Yeah. Unless you love the class.

Or are a masochist.

Or they are actually the same thing.

Can confirm. Same same.

Joy_Division · January 2017

Xvorg wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Veg wrote: »

@Wrobel Dragon leap cannot be cast while rooted. Rich said that it should break all cc including roots but it doesn't break roots. Trap beast, encase and talons still stop us from using our ultimate.

Just read the description to the changes done to backlash to understand that Wrobel just care about one class in this game.

You are confusing sorcerers for templars.

Or did you need read the new Curse and blazing Spear changes?

Nope, I was just looking at the way he refers to the change. The change to whip does not "open up a lot of exciting possibilities" for mDKs.

Now, about what they are really doing... IDK.

Well, he has said things such as "Don't worry DKs, your buffs are coming" before the Thieve's Guild and similar glowingly optimistic utterances before this patch.

I just stopped taking them seriously. But all those "incoming DK Overlord" prognosticators still take what he says seriously.