Again can we actually balance dark deal already.
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Brutusmax1mus✭✭✭✭✭
✭You will never get a dark deal off on me. I encourage you to go full damage, zero sustain. Then in 8 seconds you're out of the resource needed to kill me. I'll bash you over and over and then cc you. It's Balance for good players, for baddies it's a strong skill bc you suck at countering things. L2p6 -
Isellskooma✭✭✭✭Brutusmax1mus wrote: »You will never get a dark deal off on me. I encourage you to go full damage, zero sustain. Then in 8 seconds you're out of the resource needed to kill me. I'll bash you over and over and then cc you. It's Balance for good players, for baddies it's a strong skill bc you suck at countering things. L2p
Nah I swear I bash like 10 times and they pull it off, also I even gapclose to bash and they pull it off.1 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭EldritchPenguin wrote: »
Balance changes are not some kind of slippery slope that leads to everyone fighting naked with sticks and no abilities. Nobody here is asking for that. Claiming that someone who makes a nerf thread is advocating for that is little more than a scare tactic. People advocating for balance changes--especially people advocating for one balance change--are not evildoing gremlins who are trying to steal all of your fun away. They just want to make the game more fair.Why don't we just remove all skills and fight naked, you would get your perfect balance that you always wanted
Balance is what makes the mettle of the player matter. Without balance, somebody can win a fight when they choose their class or equip their gear, rather than on the battlefield.
Since Magicka is not equivalent to Stamina, the other morph is not equivalent, either. Stamina is far more important to a Magicka build than the inverse, since Stamina is what we use to roll dodge and break free, which are absolutely imperative to surviving PvP.Why only Dark Deal? Seems a little one sided considering the other morph restores the equivalent in magicka.
Sure, a Magicka Sorcerer can use Dark Conversion to keep attacking, but that's a little underwhelming compared to a Stamina Sorcerer who can use Dark Deal to keep attacking and roll dodging and breaking free.
Excepting that magicka is far more important for THIS PARTICULAR stamina class to keep crit surge up and our escape skill.
All in all this argument for nerfing DD always boils down to "with heavy armor and proc and blah and bleh and womp womp"
Dark Deal isn't the problem. Look to the things people are whining about that makes them think it is a problem.
Oh please. You cast surge once every half a minute ffs and streak is still a utility skill which u dont spam either. All the other stam builds are doing fine without streak so u can stop pretending that streak is the only thing that helps u escape. And yes the issue with dark deal is that with any heavy armor allows u to completely ignore sustain cause u get magicka back from constitution. So u tell me how u fix it. Do you make constitution useless and affect every other heavy armor build in the game or do u simply adjust dark deal to have some sort of risk involved with it like it was supposed to work in the first place. You know, maybe actually costing u magicka when its bashed. I mean after all u tried to cast it and u failed.
This is awesome. Heavy/Constitution is clearly the issue you folks have and want to nerf something else because of it.
Don't ruin other heavy armor users because it makes DD OP? How about don't ruin DD for non heavy users and adjust the actual issue. I don't run a heavy armor stam sorc and you want one of my resource skills nerfed because some do? That is asinine.
If you are running medium armor then u should have better stamina sustain so u dont need to rely on dark deal. If you absolutely rely on DD to sustain ur stamina on a medium armor build then maybe u should change ur build. I mean other medium armor builds dont have DD. And i dont want it nerfed. I want it to work as intended. If you try to cast dark deal and u fail then it should cost you magicka. If u dont get bashed then it wont affect you.Edited by pieratsos on December 21, 2016 5:56PM0 -
Dev✭✭✭✭Sugaroverdose wrote: »what's your interest here?
My interest is simple: To stop the 3% of the player base from ruining the game any further. To hopefully convince ZOS that they dont need PVP, and more to the point that they would be better off removing that feature.
Once PVP is gone, they can focus the resources on parts of the game that actually matter, and brings the majority of the paying audience.
1 -
Shad0wfire99✭✭✭✭✭
✭Shad0wfire99 wrote: »Shad0wfire99 wrote: »Why only Dark Deal? Seems a little one sided considering the other morph restores the equivalent in magicka.
Why don't we just remove all skills and fight naked, you would get your perfect balance that you always wanted
Because the other morph has some risk involved even if its not bashed. Thats the whole design behind the skill. Risk/reward. Draining ur stamina can get u killed if u are not careful. Draining ur magicka to fill up ur stam has absolutely no risk involved and u are free to spam it.
Really? Using all your magicka to spam DD leaves you with no ability to streak escape. That's a risk. Not being able to do anything but watch the animation of DD for its duration leaves you vulnerable to being DPSd down. That's a risk.
Not really its not. Not by a long shot. You cant possibly saying that a stam build that is out of magicka is the same as a magicka build without stamina. Thats just absurd. Magicka on stam builds is used for utility. Stamina on magicka build is used for surviving. You cant afford to be out of stamina and thats not really debatable especially on a magicka sorc that can be one shotted the second their shields drop. And that usually happens when u are CCed and cant break free. A stam sorc can use magicka however he feels. Whether its for dark deal, streak or surge. If u are out of magicka but full on stamina u are not going to die. There is no risk involved for a stam sorc casting dark deal cause they are not losing their magicka even if they are bashed. And getting bashed on a build as mobile as stam sorc isnt that easy. Im sure if there was actually a risk involved with casting it and they couldnt rely on it for sustain then they wouldnt run 600 regen on full dmg setups.
So, what I'm hearing is that Dark Deal isn't the problem, not being able to break free with magicka is.
No, what u are hearing is that draining ur stamina to fill up ur magicka is gonna get u killed. Thats why there is a risk involved with the other morph and thats why dark conversion and dark deal are not the same. Keep trying. You'll get it eventually.
Can you read? I never said they were the same. I said not being able to break free with your highest resource pool was the problem. Keep being a salty forum warrior, I'm sure your life will feel complete eventually.
Thats still dumb cause i never said that the problem is with dark conversion. I said the problem is that DD is OP and ur solution is to change something to bring dark conversion on par with DD?
Looks like that answers my question.
XBox NA0 -
Sugaroverdose✭✭✭✭✭
So you actually don't have interest, you just PvE guy who complains every time when people talk about balance cause you don't know what it is but it forces you to...OMG Change Your Rotation And Gear, instead of just giving "relax play with never changed rotation and 100% learned mob spawns and timed mechanics".Sugaroverdose wrote: »what's your interest here?
My interest is simple: To stop the 3% of the player base from ruining the game any further. To hopefully convince ZOS that they dont need PVP, and more to the point that they would be better off removing that feature.
Once PVP is gone, they can focus the resources on parts of the game that actually matter, and brings the majority of the paying audience.
And next time when you say "3%" give, numbers which ZoS published, if you don't have them, then don't dumb anyone with info which your imagination creates.
[Edit to remove bait]Edited by [Deleted User] on December 21, 2016 8:41PM1 -
Sigtric✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭EldritchPenguin wrote: »
Balance changes are not some kind of slippery slope that leads to everyone fighting naked with sticks and no abilities. Nobody here is asking for that. Claiming that someone who makes a nerf thread is advocating for that is little more than a scare tactic. People advocating for balance changes--especially people advocating for one balance change--are not evildoing gremlins who are trying to steal all of your fun away. They just want to make the game more fair.Why don't we just remove all skills and fight naked, you would get your perfect balance that you always wanted
Balance is what makes the mettle of the player matter. Without balance, somebody can win a fight when they choose their class or equip their gear, rather than on the battlefield.
Since Magicka is not equivalent to Stamina, the other morph is not equivalent, either. Stamina is far more important to a Magicka build than the inverse, since Stamina is what we use to roll dodge and break free, which are absolutely imperative to surviving PvP.Why only Dark Deal? Seems a little one sided considering the other morph restores the equivalent in magicka.
Sure, a Magicka Sorcerer can use Dark Conversion to keep attacking, but that's a little underwhelming compared to a Stamina Sorcerer who can use Dark Deal to keep attacking and roll dodging and breaking free.
Excepting that magicka is far more important for THIS PARTICULAR stamina class to keep crit surge up and our escape skill.
All in all this argument for nerfing DD always boils down to "with heavy armor and proc and blah and bleh and womp womp"
Dark Deal isn't the problem. Look to the things people are whining about that makes them think it is a problem.
Oh please. You cast surge once every half a minute ffs and streak is still a utility skill which u dont spam either. All the other stam builds are doing fine without streak so u can stop pretending that streak is the only thing that helps u escape. And yes the issue with dark deal is that with any heavy armor allows u to completely ignore sustain cause u get magicka back from constitution. So u tell me how u fix it. Do you make constitution useless and affect every other heavy armor build in the game or do u simply adjust dark deal to have some sort of risk involved with it like it was supposed to work in the first place. You know, maybe actually costing u magicka when its bashed. I mean after all u tried to cast it and u failed.
This is awesome. Heavy/Constitution is clearly the issue you folks have and want to nerf something else because of it.
Don't ruin other heavy armor users because it makes DD OP? How about don't ruin DD for non heavy users and adjust the actual issue. I don't run a heavy armor stam sorc and you want one of my resource skills nerfed because some do? That is asinine.
If you are running medium armor then u should have better stamina sustain so u dont need to rely on dark deal. If you absolutely rely on DD to sustain ur stamina on a medium armor build then maybe u should change ur build. I mean other medium armor builds dont have DD. And i dont want it nerfed. I want it to work as intended. If you try to cast dark deal and u fail then it should cost you magicka. If u dont get bashed then it wont affect you.
My issue is people trying to nerf X when Y is the problem. DD is far from OP in itself, it just because spammable to a great extent because of constitution. That seems to be what every ones argument for this is.
Supposing a bash does still make it cost magicka, constitution is still going to make it not really matter.
As a medium armored stam sorc you are correct my sustain is better, but that doesn't mean changing the skill wont affect me. My Stam sorc is my main PVE toon as well as PVP now. I use it quite a bit more in PVE.
Also regardless of magic cost on bash or not, that's the perfect time for you to nuke the crap out of them, as they can't do anything else during the duration. Is why I've stopped using it during pvp combat unless I've created enough distance between me and the aggressor, or just wait for the fight to end and use it to top off and quickly get back in combat with the next target.
Stormproof: Vibeke - 50 EP mDragonknight | Savi Dreloth - 50 EP Magsorc | Sadi Dreloth - 50 EP Magblade | Sigtric Stormaxe - 50 EP Stamsorc | Valora Dreloth - 50 EP Magplar | Sigtric the Unbearable 50 EP Stam Warden
Scrub: Chews-on-Beavers - 50 EP DK Tank | Vera the Wild - 50 EP magicka Warden | Sigtric the Axe - 50 EP Dragonknight Crafter | Sigtric the Blade - 50 EP Lost Nightblade | Sigtric the Savage - 50 EP magicka Templar | Vibeka Shadowblade - 50 Ep Stealthy Ganky Nightblade |
Show Me Your Dunmer
[/center]0 -
TequilaFire✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Sugaroverdose wrote: »what's your interest here?
My interest is simple: To stop the 3% of the player base from ruining the game any further. To hopefully convince ZOS that they dont need PVP, and more to the point that they would be better off removing that feature.
Once PVP is gone, they can focus the resources on parts of the game that actually matter, and brings the majority of the paying audience.
And they say PvP crowd is toxic, nothing more toxic than trying to get someone's game mode deleted.
You still haven't figured out it is the same handful of thread creators not the majority of PvP players that cry because they get killed and have to blame it on skills to be nerfed instead of just shrugging off being killed because their ego can't handle it.
Edited by TequilaFire on December 21, 2016 6:10PM6 -
psychotic13✭✭✭✭✭
✭Just make it a decent heal, then us magsorcs will run it and no one moans about the regen problem with stamsorcs1 -
Autolycus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yet it's so easy to counter and can easily be used against them just by interrupting and throwing a little burst.
Wait... you mean I have to bash?! I quit.3 -
Wollust✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Can't we just remove people like you?
You mean all these PVP crying threads wasnt just the attempt? The way PVP players have been acting in this thread, it is clear that they think that the entire game should be based for the 3%... and that they want all the PVE players to quit.
Your sense of entitlement is strong, but the justification for any is non-existent.
Zos, at the end of the day you will need to decide which audience pays you the most. It is clear that the two sides are not compatible, and until there is a clear division between the two, this game will always fall short.
I don't give a f about what whatever numbers you start dreaming of and what not. At the end of the day, I am not only better at PvP but also most likely vastly superior at PvE and I'll be laughing about toxic people like you trying to force people to only play how they themselves want.
How about you start accepting that elder scrolls online is not only PvE but also PvP? And that one part of the game has more balance issues due to its nature? Let people enjoy the game the way they want. Idiots trying to enforce their own playstyle (doesn't matter if PvP or PvE) are unneeded.
Try to get some understanding for each other. It helps a lot making the game more enjoyable.Susano'o
Zerg Squad3 -
Sigtric✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yet it's so easy to counter and can easily be used against them just by interrupting and throwing a little burst.
Wait... you mean I have to bash?! I quit.
lol
Stormproof: Vibeke - 50 EP mDragonknight | Savi Dreloth - 50 EP Magsorc | Sadi Dreloth - 50 EP Magblade | Sigtric Stormaxe - 50 EP Stamsorc | Valora Dreloth - 50 EP Magplar | Sigtric the Unbearable 50 EP Stam Warden
Scrub: Chews-on-Beavers - 50 EP DK Tank | Vera the Wild - 50 EP magicka Warden | Sigtric the Axe - 50 EP Dragonknight Crafter | Sigtric the Blade - 50 EP Lost Nightblade | Sigtric the Savage - 50 EP magicka Templar | Vibeka Shadowblade - 50 Ep Stealthy Ganky Nightblade |
Show Me Your Dunmer
[/center]0 -
Sigtric✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Can't we just remove people like you?
You mean all these PVP crying threads wasnt just the attempt? The way PVP players have been acting in this thread, it is clear that they think that the entire game should be based for the 3%... and that they want all the PVE players to quit.
Your sense of entitlement is strong, but the justification for any is non-existent.
Zos, at the end of the day you will need to decide which audience pays you the most. It is clear that the two sides are not compatible, and until there is a clear division between the two, this game will always fall short.
I don't give a f about what whatever numbers you start dreaming of and what not. At the end of the day, I am not only better at PvP but also most likely vastly superior at PvE and I'll be laughing about toxic people like you trying to force people to only play how they themselves want.
How about you start accepting that elder scrolls online is not only PvE but also PvP? And that one part of the game has more balance issues due to its nature? Let people enjoy the game the way they want. Idiots trying to enforce their own playstyle (doesn't matter if PvP or PvE) are unneeded.
Try to get some understanding for each other. It helps a lot making the game more enjoyable.
Hey man, there's no need for actual logic around here!
Stormproof: Vibeke - 50 EP mDragonknight | Savi Dreloth - 50 EP Magsorc | Sadi Dreloth - 50 EP Magblade | Sigtric Stormaxe - 50 EP Stamsorc | Valora Dreloth - 50 EP Magplar | Sigtric the Unbearable 50 EP Stam Warden
Scrub: Chews-on-Beavers - 50 EP DK Tank | Vera the Wild - 50 EP magicka Warden | Sigtric the Axe - 50 EP Dragonknight Crafter | Sigtric the Blade - 50 EP Lost Nightblade | Sigtric the Savage - 50 EP magicka Templar | Vibeka Shadowblade - 50 Ep Stealthy Ganky Nightblade |
Show Me Your Dunmer
[/center]1 -
EldritchPenguin✭✭✭✭✭
The way I see it, it's more like two problems that compound each other. The way Dark Deal functions is that interrupting it refunds their Magicka, which means that you can only delay the skill instead of outright countering it. Constitution means that the only way to prevent someone from casting Dark Deal is by constantly spamming interrupts.EldritchPenguin wrote: »
Balance changes are not some kind of slippery slope that leads to everyone fighting naked with sticks and no abilities. Nobody here is asking for that. Claiming that someone who makes a nerf thread is advocating for that is little more than a scare tactic. People advocating for balance changes--especially people advocating for one balance change--are not evildoing gremlins who are trying to steal all of your fun away. They just want to make the game more fair.Why don't we just remove all skills and fight naked, you would get your perfect balance that you always wanted
Balance is what makes the mettle of the player matter. Without balance, somebody can win a fight when they choose their class or equip their gear, rather than on the battlefield.
Since Magicka is not equivalent to Stamina, the other morph is not equivalent, either. Stamina is far more important to a Magicka build than the inverse, since Stamina is what we use to roll dodge and break free, which are absolutely imperative to surviving PvP.Why only Dark Deal? Seems a little one sided considering the other morph restores the equivalent in magicka.
Sure, a Magicka Sorcerer can use Dark Conversion to keep attacking, but that's a little underwhelming compared to a Stamina Sorcerer who can use Dark Deal to keep attacking and roll dodging and breaking free.
Excepting that magicka is far more important for THIS PARTICULAR stamina class to keep crit surge up and our escape skill.
All in all this argument for nerfing DD always boils down to "with heavy armor and proc and blah and bleh and womp womp"
Dark Deal isn't the problem. Look to the things people are whining about that makes them think it is a problem.
Oh please. You cast surge once every half a minute ffs and streak is still a utility skill which u dont spam either. All the other stam builds are doing fine without streak so u can stop pretending that streak is the only thing that helps u escape. And yes the issue with dark deal is that with any heavy armor allows u to completely ignore sustain cause u get magicka back from constitution. So u tell me how u fix it. Do you make constitution useless and affect every other heavy armor build in the game or do u simply adjust dark deal to have some sort of risk involved with it like it was supposed to work in the first place. You know, maybe actually costing u magicka when its bashed. I mean after all u tried to cast it and u failed.
This is awesome. Heavy/Constitution is clearly the issue you folks have and want to nerf something else because of it.
Don't ruin other heavy armor users because it makes DD OP? How about don't ruin DD for non heavy users and adjust the actual issue. I don't run a heavy armor stam sorc and you want one of my resource skills nerfed because some do? That is asinine.
If you are running medium armor then u should have better stamina sustain so u dont need to rely on dark deal. If you absolutely rely on DD to sustain ur stamina on a medium armor build then maybe u should change ur build. I mean other medium armor builds dont have DD. And i dont want it nerfed. I want it to work as intended. If you try to cast dark deal and u fail then it should cost you magicka. If u dont get bashed then it wont affect you.
My issue is people trying to nerf X when Y is the problem. DD is far from OP in itself, it just because spammable to a great extent because of constitution. That seems to be what every ones argument for this is.
Sure, Dark Deal spam wouldn't be possible on the same level without Constitution, but interrupting a skill shouldn't refund the resource used, not for Dark Deal and not for anything else.Lilelle Adlis - Dark Elf Dragonknight
Vaynothah Sailenar - Dark Elf Templar
Sherivah Telvanni - Dark Elf Sorcerer
Nephiah Telvanni - Dark Elf Nightblade0 -
Riga_Mortis✭✭✭✭✭Every time I read a nerf thread I really wish the devs would buff whatever the OP is crying about.XBOX 1X
GT - TAGNUTZ5 -
Sigtric✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭EldritchPenguin wrote: »
The way I see it, it's more like two problems that compound each other. The way Dark Deal functions is that interrupting it refunds their Magicka, which means that you can only delay the skill instead of outright countering it. Constitution means that the only way to prevent someone from casting Dark Deal is by constantly spamming interrupts.EldritchPenguin wrote: »
Balance changes are not some kind of slippery slope that leads to everyone fighting naked with sticks and no abilities. Nobody here is asking for that. Claiming that someone who makes a nerf thread is advocating for that is little more than a scare tactic. People advocating for balance changes--especially people advocating for one balance change--are not evildoing gremlins who are trying to steal all of your fun away. They just want to make the game more fair.Why don't we just remove all skills and fight naked, you would get your perfect balance that you always wanted
Balance is what makes the mettle of the player matter. Without balance, somebody can win a fight when they choose their class or equip their gear, rather than on the battlefield.
Since Magicka is not equivalent to Stamina, the other morph is not equivalent, either. Stamina is far more important to a Magicka build than the inverse, since Stamina is what we use to roll dodge and break free, which are absolutely imperative to surviving PvP.Why only Dark Deal? Seems a little one sided considering the other morph restores the equivalent in magicka.
Sure, a Magicka Sorcerer can use Dark Conversion to keep attacking, but that's a little underwhelming compared to a Stamina Sorcerer who can use Dark Deal to keep attacking and roll dodging and breaking free.
Excepting that magicka is far more important for THIS PARTICULAR stamina class to keep crit surge up and our escape skill.
All in all this argument for nerfing DD always boils down to "with heavy armor and proc and blah and bleh and womp womp"
Dark Deal isn't the problem. Look to the things people are whining about that makes them think it is a problem.
Oh please. You cast surge once every half a minute ffs and streak is still a utility skill which u dont spam either. All the other stam builds are doing fine without streak so u can stop pretending that streak is the only thing that helps u escape. And yes the issue with dark deal is that with any heavy armor allows u to completely ignore sustain cause u get magicka back from constitution. So u tell me how u fix it. Do you make constitution useless and affect every other heavy armor build in the game or do u simply adjust dark deal to have some sort of risk involved with it like it was supposed to work in the first place. You know, maybe actually costing u magicka when its bashed. I mean after all u tried to cast it and u failed.
This is awesome. Heavy/Constitution is clearly the issue you folks have and want to nerf something else because of it.
Don't ruin other heavy armor users because it makes DD OP? How about don't ruin DD for non heavy users and adjust the actual issue. I don't run a heavy armor stam sorc and you want one of my resource skills nerfed because some do? That is asinine.
If you are running medium armor then u should have better stamina sustain so u dont need to rely on dark deal. If you absolutely rely on DD to sustain ur stamina on a medium armor build then maybe u should change ur build. I mean other medium armor builds dont have DD. And i dont want it nerfed. I want it to work as intended. If you try to cast dark deal and u fail then it should cost you magicka. If u dont get bashed then it wont affect you.
My issue is people trying to nerf X when Y is the problem. DD is far from OP in itself, it just because spammable to a great extent because of constitution. That seems to be what every ones argument for this is.
Sure, Dark Deal spam wouldn't be possible on the same level without Constitution, but interrupting a skill shouldn't refund the resource used, not for Dark Deal and not for anything else.
On the other hand I don't waste time trying to counter a stamsorc I am fighting against when they DD by bashing. I counter by nuking them. They are completely vulnerable during the duration of the cast. Best case scenario is they are dead, worst case I've seen at this point is they negated the damage done to them during the duration, at this point I'm still fine because they have not been able to hit my while casting DD.
Stormproof: Vibeke - 50 EP mDragonknight | Savi Dreloth - 50 EP Magsorc | Sadi Dreloth - 50 EP Magblade | Sigtric Stormaxe - 50 EP Stamsorc | Valora Dreloth - 50 EP Magplar | Sigtric the Unbearable 50 EP Stam Warden
Scrub: Chews-on-Beavers - 50 EP DK Tank | Vera the Wild - 50 EP magicka Warden | Sigtric the Axe - 50 EP Dragonknight Crafter | Sigtric the Blade - 50 EP Lost Nightblade | Sigtric the Savage - 50 EP magicka Templar | Vibeka Shadowblade - 50 Ep Stealthy Ganky Nightblade |
Show Me Your Dunmer
[/center]2 -
bubbygink✭✭✭✭✭To all you heavy armor wearing stam sorcs defending dark deal and saying its not OP, I ask you this: how much stamina regen are you running? I can bet for nearly all of you (and all the smart ones) that it is the absolute minimum regen possible. Why? B/c dark deal is the only sustain you need. How can you not take that as being OP? You don't have to worry about getting stamina regen from anywhere. If you are running ~600 stam regen and are sustaining fine from dark deal then how can you possibly come on here and say its not OP?3 -
TARAFRAKA✭✭✭✭✭My only issue with it is that most stam sorcs use it while under effect of shuffle or hurricane. Basically, they get half invisibility which makes me harder to notice them using their skills and react in split second
wow. then you need to turn the brightness on your monitor or tv up. that giant AOE is huge. yugggggge as trump would say.Edited by TARAFRAKA on December 21, 2016 7:22PM0 -
MaxwellC✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@Edziu
It didn't help because prior to the massive amounts of proc sets coming out with the recent update to all dungeons people would say "This ability synergizes so well with DKs thus they are OP" or something along that line. Any class can outperform a stam DK in a 1v1 scenario but everyone wants to bring up this tank DK as if it's the best, I'm guessing they haven't seen a magplar tank with 68k health hitting 20k thanks to reflective damage.
If anything we should have the best sustain not sorcs; in other words I want my return on stamina to be 10% of my max stamina while having the magicka cost for all DK specific moves to be reduced by 300-400 resource values. They also need to give us back flames of oblivion instead of giving sorcs the version we had for so long but thanks to b.s. it got removed (Excuse was client instability, lol look at the sorcs hurricane, its the same thing just no flame AoE).不動の Steadfast - Unwavering
XBL Gamer Tag - Maxwell
XB1 Maxwell Crystal - NA DC CP 800+ Redguard Stamina DK
XB1 Max Crystal - NA DC CP 800+ Brenton Magicka DK
PC Maxwell-Crystal - NA DC - CP 200+ Brenton Magicka DK 「Retired」Band Camp statements: To state "But this one time I saw X doing X... so that justifies X" Refers to the Band camp statement.
Coined by Maxwell0 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭My only issue with it is that most stam sorcs use it while under effect of shuffle or hurricane. Basically, they get half invisibility which makes me harder to notice them using their skills and react in split second
wow. then you need to turn the brightness on your monitor or tv up. that giant AOE is huge. yugggggge as trump would say.
Instead of answering only to posts that suits you how about u answer one simple question. Why do stam sorcs run with the absolute minimum possible regen and put everything into dmg and still be able to sustain better than any other class?1 -
Sigtric✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭To all you heavy armor wearing stam sorcs defending dark deal and saying its not OP, I ask you this: how much stamina regen are you running? I can bet for nearly all of you (and all the smart ones) that it is the absolute minimum regen possible. Why? B/c dark deal is the only sustain you need. How can you not take that as being OP? You don't have to worry about getting stamina regen from anywhere. If you are running ~600 stam regen and are sustaining fine from dark deal then how can you possibly come on here and say its not OP?
DD is strong but it is one of 6 sorc skills that is actually useful to stamsorc. There is not much in the way at all of skill diversity if you want to run a stam sorc, they all have to use the same skills. Versus other classes that have many more options when it comes to class skill morphs into stamina.
That all said, and considering my ~1500ish regen on my stamsorc, I don't feel it is OP at all, and even with my nearly double amount of regen that what seems to be the norm, I still need DD (sure not quite as often, but I still have to use it)
I run one piece of heavy armor for the undaunted mettle and sometimes I'll pop a second piece on if I am taking an extra beating, but this is rare. I am generally 5/1/1 with full medium passives.
Once again, DD is not the problem here, but since people can't seem to be able to figure out how to deal with it, we get these cryfest threads.
Edited by Sigtric on December 21, 2016 7:49PM
Stormproof: Vibeke - 50 EP mDragonknight | Savi Dreloth - 50 EP Magsorc | Sadi Dreloth - 50 EP Magblade | Sigtric Stormaxe - 50 EP Stamsorc | Valora Dreloth - 50 EP Magplar | Sigtric the Unbearable 50 EP Stam Warden
Scrub: Chews-on-Beavers - 50 EP DK Tank | Vera the Wild - 50 EP magicka Warden | Sigtric the Axe - 50 EP Dragonknight Crafter | Sigtric the Blade - 50 EP Lost Nightblade | Sigtric the Savage - 50 EP magicka Templar | Vibeka Shadowblade - 50 Ep Stealthy Ganky Nightblade |
Show Me Your Dunmer
[/center]3 -
Dev✭✭✭✭Sugaroverdose wrote: »So you actually don't have interest, you just PvE guy who complains every time when people talk about balance cause you don't know what it is but it forces you to...OMG Change Your Rotation And Gear, instead of just giving "relax play with never changed rotation and 100% learned mob spawns and timed mechanics".
The typical response i expect from a PVP player: "My play style is better, and everyone else needs to l2p and git gud"
Tell me one ability that hasnt been nerfed or impacted because of the whining from PVP? Good luck because there isnt one. PVP has become a plague to MMOs and does nothing but ruin them.
The fact of the matter is that the more time developers have to spend listening to the crying for nerfs, the less time they spend on something that actually matters.
I did the math with the link below, and while i would prefer to have access to the DBs to create a highly accurate report, the reality is that they have been too quiet on this.Sugaroverdose wrote: »And next time when you say "3%" give, numbers which ZoS published, if you don't have them, then don't dumb anyone with info which your imagination creates.
Link
[Edit to remove bait]Edited by [Deleted User] on December 21, 2016 8:41PM1 -
Sigtric✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Sugaroverdose wrote: »So you actually don't have interest, you just PvE guy who complains every time when people talk about balance cause you don't know what it is but it forces you to...OMG Change Your Rotation And Gear, instead of just giving "relax play with never changed rotation and 100% learned mob spawns and timed mechanics".
The typical response i expect from a PVP player: "My play style is better, and everyone else needs to l2p and git gud"
Tell me one ability that hasnt been nerfed or impacted because of the whining from PVP? Good luck because there isnt one. PVP has become a plague to MMOs and does nothing but ruin them.
The fact of the matter is that the more time developers have to spend listening to the crying for nerfs, the less time they spend on something that actually matters.
I did the math with the link below, and while i would prefer to have access to the DBs to create a highly accurate report, the reality is that they have been too quiet on this.Sugaroverdose wrote: »And next time when you say "3%" give, numbers which ZoS published, if you don't have them, then don't dumb anyone with info which your imagination creates.
Link
As someone who enjoys both types of content, there is no room for this nonsense. Which playerbase is bigger doesn't matter. ESO was designed around an AvAvA war and there will always be both types of content to suit that.
Your math has data behind it that is so incomplete it is laughable. And RE the bit I bolded, you're saying PVP players have no right to discount PVE when you're doing the same thing in the opposite direction.Edited by [Deleted User] on December 21, 2016 8:42PM
Stormproof: Vibeke - 50 EP mDragonknight | Savi Dreloth - 50 EP Magsorc | Sadi Dreloth - 50 EP Magblade | Sigtric Stormaxe - 50 EP Stamsorc | Valora Dreloth - 50 EP Magplar | Sigtric the Unbearable 50 EP Stam Warden
Scrub: Chews-on-Beavers - 50 EP DK Tank | Vera the Wild - 50 EP magicka Warden | Sigtric the Axe - 50 EP Dragonknight Crafter | Sigtric the Blade - 50 EP Lost Nightblade | Sigtric the Savage - 50 EP magicka Templar | Vibeka Shadowblade - 50 Ep Stealthy Ganky Nightblade |
Show Me Your Dunmer
[/center]3 -
Dev✭✭✭✭Why do stam sorcs run with the absolute minimum possible regen and put everything into dmg and still be able to sustain better than any other class?
For the same reason that NBs have better stealth and melee buffs, DKs have better defensive abilities, and templars have better healing:
Each class has a strength and weakness. Think about it in Rock - Paper - scissors, the stam sorc is the rock, and your build is the scissors equals you lose. Those with a 'paper' build made to take out stamsorcs will be killed more easily by the 'scissors' build. Proc sets are the universal level set: Anyone can kill anyone, as much as you may hate it: it is balanced.
This should be an easy concept to understand since most builds in Cyrodil are from youtube. The few players that understand and can conduct their OWN research, shouldn't always have to suffer for the clone army.
If they got rid of classes, then like in all the other Elder Scroll games, every char would be equal, as they would have equal access to all abilities, and it would boil down to simple choice.
Wait, i can already hear the crying: "But if they did that, we would all use the same build"
Sorry, too late for that. is there really a difference between a '1-build' mentality versus 4 '1-build's per class?
The problem is that this is a PVE game, and not PVP, so the inclusion of classes means that some will be weak in certain circumstances.
2 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Sugaroverdose wrote: »So you actually don't have interest, you just PvE guy who complains every time when people talk about balance cause you don't know what it is but it forces you to...OMG Change Your Rotation And Gear, instead of just giving "relax play with never changed rotation and 100% learned mob spawns and timed mechanics".
The typical response i expect from a PVP player: "My play style is better, and everyone else needs to l2p and git gud"
Tell me one ability that hasnt been nerfed or impacted because of the whining from PVP? Good luck because there isnt one. PVP has become a plague to MMOs and does nothing but ruin them.
The fact of the matter is that the more time developers have to spend listening to the crying for nerfs, the less time they spend on something that actually matters.
I did the math with the link below, and while i would prefer to have access to the DBs to create a highly accurate report, the reality is that they have been too quiet on this.Sugaroverdose wrote: »And next time when you say "3%" give, numbers which ZoS published, if you don't have them, then don't dumb anyone with info which your imagination creates.
Link
So you get ur numbers from a link that indicates that 10% of the population never made it out of the wailing prison and that about 30% of the population never made the harbourage quest that is done before lvl10. And you want to be actually taken seriously here?Edited by [Deleted User] on December 21, 2016 8:42PM2 -
Shad0wfire99✭✭✭✭✭
✭My only issue with it is that most stam sorcs use it while under effect of shuffle or hurricane. Basically, they get half invisibility which makes me harder to notice them using their skills and react in split second
wow. then you need to turn the brightness on your monitor or tv up. that giant AOE is huge. yugggggge as trump would say.
Instead of answering only to posts that suits you how about u answer one simple question. Why do stam sorcs run with the absolute minimum possible regen and put everything into dmg and still be able to sustain better than any other class?My only issue with it is that most stam sorcs use it while under effect of shuffle or hurricane. Basically, they get half invisibility which makes me harder to notice them using their skills and react in split second
wow. then you need to turn the brightness on your monitor or tv up. that giant AOE is huge. yugggggge as trump would say.
Instead of answering only to posts that suits you how about u answer one simple question. Why do stam sorcs run with the absolute minimum possible regen and put everything into dmg and still be able to sustain better than any other class?
Probably because PvP is all about burst damage. If you can't burst your opponent down quickly, you're probably dead anyway. This is why almost everyone wears heavy armor, which is an actual problem.
XBox NA0 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭DRXHarbinger wrote: »It's a 5k tooltip.....unless it crits and you're wearing Tbs and on using something that gives major mending you aren't getting a 5k heal in pvp with it.
Never has this skill had a 10k tooltip.
Damn stop raging bro. You mad.
I see 8k on the tooltip, personally. But, again, this is something I've come to expect from the OP.0 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Why do stam sorcs run with the absolute minimum possible regen and put everything into dmg and still be able to sustain better than any other class?
For the same reason that NBs have better stealth and melee buffs, DKs have better defensive abilities, and templars have better healing:
Each class has a strength and weakness. Think about it in Rock - Paper - scissors, the stam sorc is the rock, and your build is the scissors equals you lose. Those with a 'paper' build made to take out stamsorcs will be killed more easily by the 'scissors' build. Proc sets are the universal level set: Anyone can kill anyone, as much as you may hate it: it is balanced.
This should be an easy concept to understand since most builds in Cyrodil are from youtube. The few players that understand and can conduct their OWN research, shouldn't always have to suffer for the clone army.
If they got rid of classes, then like in all the other Elder Scroll games, every char would be equal, as they would have equal access to all abilities, and it would boil down to simple choice.
Wait, i can already hear the crying: "But if they did that, we would all use the same build"
Sorry, too late for that. is there really a difference between a '1-build' mentality versus 4 '1-build's per class?
The problem is that this is a PVE game, and not PVP, so the inclusion of classes means that some will be weak in certain circumstances.
NB have stealth abilities DK have defensive abilities templars have healing abilities and sorcs excel in mobility genius, not ignoring sustain.
You never PVP, you jump on this thread just to be toxic without having any clue about what u are talking about saying that proc sets are good from the game cause it removes player skill and you are bringing up reports that indicates 30% of the population never made it past lvl 10 to justify why PVP should be removed from the game. Do us all a favor and stop spreading bs and just stfu and save urself from further embarrassment.
If you want PVP to be removed just do ur own thread and talk about it there.Edited by pieratsos on December 21, 2016 8:46PM0
This discussion has been closed.