Again can we actually balance dark deal already.

Isellskooma

Edziu wrote: »

MaxwellCrystal wrote: »

Lol people still think stam DK is strong, let me say something real quick.
How are we strong? Do we DoT you down in PvP because last time I check DoTs are one rally vigor combo away from being ignored, one shield away from laughing, and one purge away from slapping whoever is applying said DoTs in the face.

Wait let me guess, it's because our ultimate regen... oh wait we lost that a while ago... hmm oh I know it's helping hands that gives 5% of your max stam... oh wait never mind because with that logic I'd need 50k stamina in order to get 2.5k stamina back from a skill that is our only spammable (igneous shield) and it costs around 4k magicka.

We got some good healing received passives but that doesn't keep you alive mate, we're probably the weakest class unless we run heavy armor with no sustain; Then we're the weakest/'tankiest' class with still no sustain. Yet again I find it we're the class built around a sustain concept yet we do not have the best sustain because of well... logic.

problem with stam dk is mainly because of proc sets combined to black rose and mostly perm block and just finishing others by thos eproc sets while being a tank

That's the problem with dks, they're only good cause of sets, dks them selfs are weak. Put on 2h/bow(medium) dk against the NB, both with equal skill and the Nightblade will always win.

pieratsos

xRIVALENx wrote: »

Why only Dark Deal? Seems a little one sided considering the other morph restores the equivalent in magicka.

Why don't we just remove all skills and fight naked, you would get your perfect balance that you always wanted

Because the other morph has some risk involved even if its not bashed. Thats the whole design behind the skill. Risk/reward. Draining ur stamina can get u killed if u are not careful. Draining ur magicka to fill up ur stam has absolutely no risk involved and u are free to spam it.

MaxwellC

@Edziu
Ok but anyone can do that and that's the point; before the increase of proc sets we still didn't have anything yet people wanted to make a claim that we're "Top of the PvP food-chain", here I'm looking wtf are they smoking because I'd to test it. Anyone can perma block while they wear you down using heroic slash,etc just for procs to kick in.

Edziu

MaxwellCrystal wrote: »

@Edziu
Ok but anyone can do that and that's the point; before the increase of proc sets we still didn't have anything yet people wanted to make a claim that we're "Top of the PvP food-chain", here I'm looking wtf are they smoking because I'd to test it. Anyone can perma block while they wear you down using heroic slash,etc just for procs to kick in.

Isellskooma wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

MaxwellCrystal wrote: »

Lol people still think stam DK is strong, let me say something real quick.
How are we strong? Do we DoT you down in PvP because last time I check DoTs are one rally vigor combo away from being ignored, one shield away from laughing, and one purge away from slapping whoever is applying said DoTs in the face.

Wait let me guess, it's because our ultimate regen... oh wait we lost that a while ago... hmm oh I know it's helping hands that gives 5% of your max stam... oh wait never mind because with that logic I'd need 50k stamina in order to get 2.5k stamina back from a skill that is our only spammable (igneous shield) and it costs around 4k magicka.

We got some good healing received passives but that doesn't keep you alive mate, we're probably the weakest class unless we run heavy armor with no sustain; Then we're the weakest/'tankiest' class with still no sustain. Yet again I find it we're the class built around a sustain concept yet we do not have the best sustain because of well... logic.

problem with stam dk is mainly because of proc sets combined to black rose and mostly perm block and just finishing others by thos eproc sets while being a tank

That's the problem with dks, they're only good cause of sets, dks them selfs are weak. Put on 2h/bow(medium) dk against the NB, both with equal skill and the Nightblade will always win.

in this case yes then, at 1st step we need wait until finally this proc sets nerf then it will be more visible what this dk is missing to not be a slacker on pvp without proc sets and to no need to be a damn annyoin tank to not die

EDIT: and with proc sets nerf will be also less QQ about NB's or stam sorcs bursting with stacked proc sets to just 1shot also without hide

ConeOfSilence

Why is it always the same few PvP players who come on the forum wanting this nerfed or that nerfed but as usual as long it isn't the class they are using. Dark Deal isn't even a skill that deals any damage and they still want it nerfed. Some of you guys need to go outside and get some sunshine every now and then, geez.

Isellskooma

ConeOfSilence wrote: »

Why is it always the same few PvP players who come on the forum wanting this nerfed or that nerfed but as usual as long it isn't the class they are using. Dark Deal isn't even a skill that deals any damage and they still want it nerfed. Some of you guys need to go outside and get some sunshine every now and then, geez.

I main a NB, break cloak again, nerf incap, nerf siphoning attacks.

STEVIL

First law of Nerf-o-Dynamics (sig)

Sigtric

pieratsos wrote: »

xRIVALENx wrote: »

Why only Dark Deal? Seems a little one sided considering the other morph restores the equivalent in magicka.

Why don't we just remove all skills and fight naked, you would get your perfect balance that you always wanted

Because the other morph has some risk involved even if its not bashed. Thats the whole design behind the skill. Risk/reward. Draining ur stamina can get u killed if u are not careful. Draining ur magicka to fill up ur stam has absolutely no risk involved and u are free to spam it.

Really? Using all your magicka to spam DD leaves you with no ability to streak escape. That's a risk. Not being able to do anything but watch the animation of DD for its duration leaves you vulnerable to being DPSd down. That's a risk.

Sigtric

Hey @TARAFRAKA may I buy you a drink to enjoy with your popcorn?

TARAFRAKA

Sigtric wrote: »

Hey @TARAFRAKA may I buy you a drink to enjoy with your popcorn?

...are you hitting on me?

Cause it's working.

EldritchPenguin

xRIVALENx wrote: »

Why don't we just remove all skills and fight naked, you would get your perfect balance that you always wanted

Balance changes are not some kind of slippery slope that leads to everyone fighting naked with sticks and no abilities. Nobody here is asking for that. Claiming that someone who makes a nerf thread is advocating for that is little more than a scare tactic. People advocating for balance changes--especially people advocating for one balance change--are not evildoing gremlins who are trying to steal all of your fun away. They just want to make the game more fair.

Balance is what makes the mettle of the player matter. Without balance, somebody can win a fight when they choose their class or equip their gear, rather than on the battlefield.

xRIVALENx wrote: »

Why only Dark Deal? Seems a little one sided considering the other morph restores the equivalent in magicka.

Since Magicka is not equivalent to Stamina, the other morph is not equivalent, either. Stamina is far more important to a Magicka build than the inverse, since Stamina is what we use to roll dodge and break free, which are absolutely imperative to surviving PvP.

Sure, a Magicka Sorcerer can use Dark Conversion to keep attacking, but that's a little underwhelming compared to a Stamina Sorcerer who can use Dark Deal to keep attacking and roll dodging and breaking free.

pieratsos

Sigtric wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

xRIVALENx wrote: »

Why only Dark Deal? Seems a little one sided considering the other morph restores the equivalent in magicka.

Why don't we just remove all skills and fight naked, you would get your perfect balance that you always wanted

Because the other morph has some risk involved even if its not bashed. Thats the whole design behind the skill. Risk/reward. Draining ur stamina can get u killed if u are not careful. Draining ur magicka to fill up ur stam has absolutely no risk involved and u are free to spam it.

Really? Using all your magicka to spam DD leaves you with no ability to streak escape. That's a risk. Not being able to do anything but watch the animation of DD for its duration leaves you vulnerable to being DPSd down. That's a risk.

Not really its not. Not by a long shot. You cant possibly saying that a stam build that is out of magicka is the same as a magicka build without stamina. Thats just absurd. Magicka on stam builds is used for utility. Stamina on magicka build is used for surviving. You cant afford to be out of stamina and thats not really debatable especially on a magicka sorc that can be one shotted the second their shields drop. And that usually happens when u are CCed and cant break free. A stam sorc can use magicka however he feels. Whether its for dark deal, streak or surge. If u are out of magicka but full on stamina u are not going to die. There is no risk involved for a stam sorc casting dark deal cause they are not losing their magicka even if they are bashed. And getting bashed on a build as mobile as stam sorc isnt that easy. Im sure if there was actually a risk involved with casting it and they couldnt rely on it for sustain then they wouldnt run 600 regen on full dmg setups.

Sigtric

EldritchPenguin wrote: »

xRIVALENx wrote: »

Why don't we just remove all skills and fight naked, you would get your perfect balance that you always wanted

Balance changes are not some kind of slippery slope that leads to everyone fighting naked with sticks and no abilities. Nobody here is asking for that. Claiming that someone who makes a nerf thread is advocating for that is little more than a scare tactic. People advocating for balance changes--especially people advocating for one balance change--are not evildoing gremlins who are trying to steal all of your fun away. They just want to make the game more fair.

Balance is what makes the mettle of the player matter. Without balance, somebody can win a fight when they choose their class or equip their gear, rather than on the battlefield.

xRIVALENx wrote: »

Why only Dark Deal? Seems a little one sided considering the other morph restores the equivalent in magicka.

Since Magicka is not equivalent to Stamina, the other morph is not equivalent, either. Stamina is far more important to a Magicka build than the inverse, since Stamina is what we use to roll dodge and break free, which are absolutely imperative to surviving PvP.

Sure, a Magicka Sorcerer can use Dark Conversion to keep attacking, but that's a little underwhelming compared to a Stamina Sorcerer who can use Dark Deal to keep attacking and roll dodging and breaking free.

Excepting that magicka is far more important for THIS PARTICULAR stamina class to keep crit surge up and our escape skill.


All in all this argument for nerfing DD always boils down to "with heavy armor and proc and blah and bleh and womp womp"


Dark Deal isn't the problem. Look to the things people are whining about that makes them think it is a problem.

Shad0wfire99

pieratsos wrote: »

Sigtric wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

xRIVALENx wrote: »

Why only Dark Deal? Seems a little one sided considering the other morph restores the equivalent in magicka.

Why don't we just remove all skills and fight naked, you would get your perfect balance that you always wanted

Because the other morph has some risk involved even if its not bashed. Thats the whole design behind the skill. Risk/reward. Draining ur stamina can get u killed if u are not careful. Draining ur magicka to fill up ur stam has absolutely no risk involved and u are free to spam it.

Really? Using all your magicka to spam DD leaves you with no ability to streak escape. That's a risk. Not being able to do anything but watch the animation of DD for its duration leaves you vulnerable to being DPSd down. That's a risk.

Not really its not. Not by a long shot. You cant possibly saying that a stam build that is out of magicka is the same as a magicka build without stamina. Thats just absurd. Magicka on stam builds is used for utility. Stamina on magicka build is used for surviving. You cant afford to be out of stamina and thats not really debatable especially on a magicka sorc that can be one shotted the second their shields drop. And that usually happens when u are CCed and cant break free. A stam sorc can use magicka however he feels. Whether its for dark deal, streak or surge. If u are out of magicka but full on stamina u are not going to die. There is no risk involved for a stam sorc casting dark deal cause they are not losing their magicka even if they are bashed. And getting bashed on a build as mobile as stam sorc isnt that easy. Im sure if there was actually a risk involved with casting it and they couldnt rely on it for sustain then they wouldnt run 600 regen on full dmg setups.

So, what I'm hearing is that Dark Deal isn't the problem, not being able to break free with magicka is.

br0steen

Sounds like somebody got killed by a stam sorc and is super salty about it

Sigtric

br0steen wrote: »

Sounds like somebody got killed by a stam sorc and is super salty about it

This is usually the case. I got a /tell from a DC in TF once after I killed him going on about how I was nothing with out dark deal

I hadn't touched the skill once during the fight and only fired it once, standing next to his corpse to top off before running off. Clearly it was the fight winner.

Browiseth

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Browiseth wrote: »

wowser stam sorc has a unique perk

how dare they

I'd be okay with seeing the health restore get halved though, reduced movement speed ehh
maybe a little

Big wow it's 'unique' they also have hurricane and crit surge but are we ignoring them in this situation to prove your 'point'?

Still doesn't change the fact it's over performing. Also every other channel, jabs/sweeps/snipe/flare etc... they all have the channel movement speed slow apart from dark deal.

I literally just agreed with you man, sorry I tried to be funny and sarcastic on the side

idk

Bashev wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Enslaved wrote: »

So sDK have a way to sustain itself with igneous shield. It also provides minor shield and major mending.
NB can use siphoning attacks. sTemp have repentance. So jeah, let's just scr*w sSorc. Remove dark deal, self sustain should be forbidden for that class.

You forgot the huge heal and restored stats the DK gets when dropping an ult.

What is wrong with you? It is 2016 almost 2017 and the update is 2.6. For 200 ultimate you restore 35% from your resources. The heal is reduced by battle spirit. So you receive 18% from your max health.

It's 70%

Might want to dbl check that. Thx.

STEVIL

Shad0wfire99 wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Sigtric wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

xRIVALENx wrote: »

Why only Dark Deal? Seems a little one sided considering the other morph restores the equivalent in magicka.

Why don't we just remove all skills and fight naked, you would get your perfect balance that you always wanted

Because the other morph has some risk involved even if its not bashed. Thats the whole design behind the skill. Risk/reward. Draining ur stamina can get u killed if u are not careful. Draining ur magicka to fill up ur stam has absolutely no risk involved and u are free to spam it.

Really? Using all your magicka to spam DD leaves you with no ability to streak escape. That's a risk. Not being able to do anything but watch the animation of DD for its duration leaves you vulnerable to being DPSd down. That's a risk.

Not really its not. Not by a long shot. You cant possibly saying that a stam build that is out of magicka is the same as a magicka build without stamina. Thats just absurd. Magicka on stam builds is used for utility. Stamina on magicka build is used for surviving. You cant afford to be out of stamina and thats not really debatable especially on a magicka sorc that can be one shotted the second their shields drop. And that usually happens when u are CCed and cant break free. A stam sorc can use magicka however he feels. Whether its for dark deal, streak or surge. If u are out of magicka but full on stamina u are not going to die. There is no risk involved for a stam sorc casting dark deal cause they are not losing their magicka even if they are bashed. And getting bashed on a build as mobile as stam sorc isnt that easy. Im sure if there was actually a risk involved with casting it and they couldnt rely on it for sustain then they wouldnt run 600 regen on full dmg setups.

So, what I'm hearing is that Dark Deal isn't the problem, not being able to break free with magicka is.

Actually in some/many cases elusive mist is a magica break free iirc.

pieratsos

Shad0wfire99 wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Sigtric wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

xRIVALENx wrote: »

Why only Dark Deal? Seems a little one sided considering the other morph restores the equivalent in magicka.

Why don't we just remove all skills and fight naked, you would get your perfect balance that you always wanted

Because the other morph has some risk involved even if its not bashed. Thats the whole design behind the skill. Risk/reward. Draining ur stamina can get u killed if u are not careful. Draining ur magicka to fill up ur stam has absolutely no risk involved and u are free to spam it.

Really? Using all your magicka to spam DD leaves you with no ability to streak escape. That's a risk. Not being able to do anything but watch the animation of DD for its duration leaves you vulnerable to being DPSd down. That's a risk.

Not really its not. Not by a long shot. You cant possibly saying that a stam build that is out of magicka is the same as a magicka build without stamina. Thats just absurd. Magicka on stam builds is used for utility. Stamina on magicka build is used for surviving. You cant afford to be out of stamina and thats not really debatable especially on a magicka sorc that can be one shotted the second their shields drop. And that usually happens when u are CCed and cant break free. A stam sorc can use magicka however he feels. Whether its for dark deal, streak or surge. If u are out of magicka but full on stamina u are not going to die. There is no risk involved for a stam sorc casting dark deal cause they are not losing their magicka even if they are bashed. And getting bashed on a build as mobile as stam sorc isnt that easy. Im sure if there was actually a risk involved with casting it and they couldnt rely on it for sustain then they wouldnt run 600 regen on full dmg setups.

So, what I'm hearing is that Dark Deal isn't the problem, not being able to break free with magicka is.

No, what u are hearing is that draining ur stamina to fill up ur magicka is gonna get u killed. Thats why there is a risk involved with the other morph and thats why dark conversion and dark deal are not the same. Keep trying. You'll get it eventually.

Shad0wfire99

pieratsos wrote: »

Shad0wfire99 wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Sigtric wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

xRIVALENx wrote: »

Why only Dark Deal? Seems a little one sided considering the other morph restores the equivalent in magicka.

Why don't we just remove all skills and fight naked, you would get your perfect balance that you always wanted

Because the other morph has some risk involved even if its not bashed. Thats the whole design behind the skill. Risk/reward. Draining ur stamina can get u killed if u are not careful. Draining ur magicka to fill up ur stam has absolutely no risk involved and u are free to spam it.

Really? Using all your magicka to spam DD leaves you with no ability to streak escape. That's a risk. Not being able to do anything but watch the animation of DD for its duration leaves you vulnerable to being DPSd down. That's a risk.

Not really its not. Not by a long shot. You cant possibly saying that a stam build that is out of magicka is the same as a magicka build without stamina. Thats just absurd. Magicka on stam builds is used for utility. Stamina on magicka build is used for surviving. You cant afford to be out of stamina and thats not really debatable especially on a magicka sorc that can be one shotted the second their shields drop. And that usually happens when u are CCed and cant break free. A stam sorc can use magicka however he feels. Whether its for dark deal, streak or surge. If u are out of magicka but full on stamina u are not going to die. There is no risk involved for a stam sorc casting dark deal cause they are not losing their magicka even if they are bashed. And getting bashed on a build as mobile as stam sorc isnt that easy. Im sure if there was actually a risk involved with casting it and they couldnt rely on it for sustain then they wouldnt run 600 regen on full dmg setups.

So, what I'm hearing is that Dark Deal isn't the problem, not being able to break free with magicka is.

No, what u are hearing is that draining ur stamina to fill up ur magicka is gonna get u killed. Thats why there is a risk involved with the other morph and thats why dark conversion and dark deal are not the same. Keep trying. You'll get it eventually.

Can you read? I never said they were the same. I said not being able to break free with your highest resource pool was the problem. Keep being a salty forum warrior, I'm sure your life will feel complete eventually.

pieratsos

Sigtric wrote: »

EldritchPenguin wrote: »

xRIVALENx wrote: »

Why don't we just remove all skills and fight naked, you would get your perfect balance that you always wanted

Balance changes are not some kind of slippery slope that leads to everyone fighting naked with sticks and no abilities. Nobody here is asking for that. Claiming that someone who makes a nerf thread is advocating for that is little more than a scare tactic. People advocating for balance changes--especially people advocating for one balance change--are not evildoing gremlins who are trying to steal all of your fun away. They just want to make the game more fair.

Balance is what makes the mettle of the player matter. Without balance, somebody can win a fight when they choose their class or equip their gear, rather than on the battlefield.

xRIVALENx wrote: »

Why only Dark Deal? Seems a little one sided considering the other morph restores the equivalent in magicka.

Since Magicka is not equivalent to Stamina, the other morph is not equivalent, either. Stamina is far more important to a Magicka build than the inverse, since Stamina is what we use to roll dodge and break free, which are absolutely imperative to surviving PvP.

Sure, a Magicka Sorcerer can use Dark Conversion to keep attacking, but that's a little underwhelming compared to a Stamina Sorcerer who can use Dark Deal to keep attacking and roll dodging and breaking free.

Excepting that magicka is far more important for THIS PARTICULAR stamina class to keep crit surge up and our escape skill.


All in all this argument for nerfing DD always boils down to "with heavy armor and proc and blah and bleh and womp womp"


Dark Deal isn't the problem. Look to the things people are whining about that makes them think it is a problem.

Oh please. You cast surge once every half a minute ffs and streak is still a utility skill which u dont spam either. All the other stam builds are doing fine without streak so u can stop pretending that streak is the only thing that helps u escape. And yes the issue with dark deal is that with any heavy armor allows u to completely ignore sustain cause u get magicka back from constitution. So u tell me how u fix it. Do you make constitution useless and affect every other heavy armor build in the game or do u simply adjust dark deal to have some sort of risk involved with it like it was supposed to work in the first place. You know, maybe actually costing u magicka when its bashed. I mean after all u tried to cast it and u failed.

Dev

There is nothing wrong with the skill, and if anything this shows how there would be no pleasing the PVP audience!

On one hand they cry against proc sets because they get killed too fast...then on the other they cry when there is a long fight and someone else has better sustain... Seriously there is no pleasing them and it is ridicules. There is no such thing as a Goldilocks PVP, and cyrodil is not Burger King, you cant have it your way!

Is it me or is every 'nerf this' type thread basically because someone got beat and that person wants ZOS to alter the game so that their build, only their build can win and only when they are playing it. The level of special sea salt flavored snowflake-itis is 9000 and proving weakness.

too bad they never realized that their failure to adapt is the reason for their losses...

If anything this clearly and definitively shows there needs to either be a separation of PVP & PVE or just let PVP die off and remove it.

Wollust

Dev wrote: »

There is nothing wrong with the skill, and if anything this shows how there would be no pleasing the PVP audience!

On one hand they cry against proc sets because they get killed too fast...then on the other they cry when there is a long fight and someone else has better sustain... Seriously there is no pleasing them and it is ridicules. There is no such thing as a Goldilocks PVP, and cyrodil is not Burger King, you cant have it your way!

Is it me or is every 'nerf this' type thread basically because someone got beat and that person wants ZOS to alter the game so that their build, only their build can win and only when they are playing it. The level of special sea salt flavored snowflake-itis is 9000 and proving weakness.

too bad they never realized that their failure to adapt is the reason for their losses...

If anything this clearly and definitively shows there needs to either be a separation of PVP & PVE or just let PVP die off and remove it.

Can't we just remove people like you?

Sigtric

pieratsos wrote: »

Sigtric wrote: »

EldritchPenguin wrote: »

xRIVALENx wrote: »

Why don't we just remove all skills and fight naked, you would get your perfect balance that you always wanted

Balance changes are not some kind of slippery slope that leads to everyone fighting naked with sticks and no abilities. Nobody here is asking for that. Claiming that someone who makes a nerf thread is advocating for that is little more than a scare tactic. People advocating for balance changes--especially people advocating for one balance change--are not evildoing gremlins who are trying to steal all of your fun away. They just want to make the game more fair.

Balance is what makes the mettle of the player matter. Without balance, somebody can win a fight when they choose their class or equip their gear, rather than on the battlefield.

xRIVALENx wrote: »

Why only Dark Deal? Seems a little one sided considering the other morph restores the equivalent in magicka.

Since Magicka is not equivalent to Stamina, the other morph is not equivalent, either. Stamina is far more important to a Magicka build than the inverse, since Stamina is what we use to roll dodge and break free, which are absolutely imperative to surviving PvP.

Sure, a Magicka Sorcerer can use Dark Conversion to keep attacking, but that's a little underwhelming compared to a Stamina Sorcerer who can use Dark Deal to keep attacking and roll dodging and breaking free.

Excepting that magicka is far more important for THIS PARTICULAR stamina class to keep crit surge up and our escape skill.


All in all this argument for nerfing DD always boils down to "with heavy armor and proc and blah and bleh and womp womp"


Dark Deal isn't the problem. Look to the things people are whining about that makes them think it is a problem.

Oh please. You cast surge once every half a minute ffs and streak is still a utility skill which u dont spam either. All the other stam builds are doing fine without streak so u can stop pretending that streak is the only thing that helps u escape. And yes the issue with dark deal is that with any heavy armor allows u to completely ignore sustain cause u get magicka back from constitution. So u tell me how u fix it. Do you make constitution useless and affect every other heavy armor build in the game or do u simply adjust dark deal to have some sort of risk involved with it like it was supposed to work in the first place. You know, maybe actually costing u magicka when its bashed. I mean after all u tried to cast it and u failed.

This is awesome. Heavy/Constitution is clearly the issue you folks have and want to nerf something else because of it.

Don't ruin other heavy armor users because it makes DD OP? How about don't ruin DD for non heavy users and adjust the actual issue. I don't run a heavy armor stam sorc and you want one of my resource skills nerfed because some do? That is asinine.

Sugaroverdose

Sigtric wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Sigtric wrote: »

EldritchPenguin wrote: »

xRIVALENx wrote: »

Why don't we just remove all skills and fight naked, you would get your perfect balance that you always wanted

Balance changes are not some kind of slippery slope that leads to everyone fighting naked with sticks and no abilities. Nobody here is asking for that. Claiming that someone who makes a nerf thread is advocating for that is little more than a scare tactic. People advocating for balance changes--especially people advocating for one balance change--are not evildoing gremlins who are trying to steal all of your fun away. They just want to make the game more fair.

Balance is what makes the mettle of the player matter. Without balance, somebody can win a fight when they choose their class or equip their gear, rather than on the battlefield.

xRIVALENx wrote: »

Why only Dark Deal? Seems a little one sided considering the other morph restores the equivalent in magicka.

Since Magicka is not equivalent to Stamina, the other morph is not equivalent, either. Stamina is far more important to a Magicka build than the inverse, since Stamina is what we use to roll dodge and break free, which are absolutely imperative to surviving PvP.

Sure, a Magicka Sorcerer can use Dark Conversion to keep attacking, but that's a little underwhelming compared to a Stamina Sorcerer who can use Dark Deal to keep attacking and roll dodging and breaking free.

Excepting that magicka is far more important for THIS PARTICULAR stamina class to keep crit surge up and our escape skill.


All in all this argument for nerfing DD always boils down to "with heavy armor and proc and blah and bleh and womp womp"


Dark Deal isn't the problem. Look to the things people are whining about that makes them think it is a problem.

Oh please. You cast surge once every half a minute ffs and streak is still a utility skill which u dont spam either. All the other stam builds are doing fine without streak so u can stop pretending that streak is the only thing that helps u escape. And yes the issue with dark deal is that with any heavy armor allows u to completely ignore sustain cause u get magicka back from constitution. So u tell me how u fix it. Do you make constitution useless and affect every other heavy armor build in the game or do u simply adjust dark deal to have some sort of risk involved with it like it was supposed to work in the first place. You know, maybe actually costing u magicka when its bashed. I mean after all u tried to cast it and u failed.

This is awesome. Heavy/Constitution is clearly the issue you folks have and want to nerf something else because of it.

Don't ruin other heavy armor users because it makes DD OP? How about don't ruin DD for non heavy users and adjust the actual issue. I don't run a heavy armor stam sorc and you want one of my resource skills nerfed because some do? That is asinine.

I've actually complained about HA changes since they were applied on PTS, HA should be for tanking, so block cost reduction(PvE side) and CC break cost reduction (PvP side) should be as HA passives instead of damage+infinite sustain in specific builds.

To be clear - i've played heavy magplar those time.

Sigtric

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

Sigtric wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Sigtric wrote: »

EldritchPenguin wrote: »

xRIVALENx wrote: »

Why don't we just remove all skills and fight naked, you would get your perfect balance that you always wanted

Balance changes are not some kind of slippery slope that leads to everyone fighting naked with sticks and no abilities. Nobody here is asking for that. Claiming that someone who makes a nerf thread is advocating for that is little more than a scare tactic. People advocating for balance changes--especially people advocating for one balance change--are not evildoing gremlins who are trying to steal all of your fun away. They just want to make the game more fair.

Balance is what makes the mettle of the player matter. Without balance, somebody can win a fight when they choose their class or equip their gear, rather than on the battlefield.

xRIVALENx wrote: »

Why only Dark Deal? Seems a little one sided considering the other morph restores the equivalent in magicka.

Since Magicka is not equivalent to Stamina, the other morph is not equivalent, either. Stamina is far more important to a Magicka build than the inverse, since Stamina is what we use to roll dodge and break free, which are absolutely imperative to surviving PvP.

Sure, a Magicka Sorcerer can use Dark Conversion to keep attacking, but that's a little underwhelming compared to a Stamina Sorcerer who can use Dark Deal to keep attacking and roll dodging and breaking free.

Excepting that magicka is far more important for THIS PARTICULAR stamina class to keep crit surge up and our escape skill.


All in all this argument for nerfing DD always boils down to "with heavy armor and proc and blah and bleh and womp womp"


Dark Deal isn't the problem. Look to the things people are whining about that makes them think it is a problem.

Oh please. You cast surge once every half a minute ffs and streak is still a utility skill which u dont spam either. All the other stam builds are doing fine without streak so u can stop pretending that streak is the only thing that helps u escape. And yes the issue with dark deal is that with any heavy armor allows u to completely ignore sustain cause u get magicka back from constitution. So u tell me how u fix it. Do you make constitution useless and affect every other heavy armor build in the game or do u simply adjust dark deal to have some sort of risk involved with it like it was supposed to work in the first place. You know, maybe actually costing u magicka when its bashed. I mean after all u tried to cast it and u failed.

This is awesome. Heavy/Constitution is clearly the issue you folks have and want to nerf something else because of it.

Don't ruin other heavy armor users because it makes DD OP? How about don't ruin DD for non heavy users and adjust the actual issue. I don't run a heavy armor stam sorc and you want one of my resource skills nerfed because some do? That is asinine.

I've actually complained about HA changes since they were applied on PTS, HA should be for tanking, so block cost reduction(PvE side) and CC break cost reduction (PvP side) should be as HA passives instead of damage+infinite sustain in specific builds.

To be clear - i've played heavy magplar those time.

I am definitely more on board with this.

HA is the problem. HA should be what's dealt with if it is causing imbalance. Not some unrelated skill that the only reason it is OP is because it benefits from something else that is broken.

Dev

Wollust wrote: »

Can't we just remove people like you?

You mean all these PVP crying threads wasnt just the attempt? The way PVP players have been acting in this thread, it is clear that they think that the entire game should be based for the 3%... and that they want all the PVE players to quit.

Your sense of entitlement is strong, but the justification for any is non-existent.

Zos, at the end of the day you will need to decide which audience pays you the most. It is clear that the two sides are not compatible, and until there is a clear division between the two, this game will always fall short.

pieratsos

Shad0wfire99 wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Shad0wfire99 wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Sigtric wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

xRIVALENx wrote: »

Why only Dark Deal? Seems a little one sided considering the other morph restores the equivalent in magicka.

Why don't we just remove all skills and fight naked, you would get your perfect balance that you always wanted

Because the other morph has some risk involved even if its not bashed. Thats the whole design behind the skill. Risk/reward. Draining ur stamina can get u killed if u are not careful. Draining ur magicka to fill up ur stam has absolutely no risk involved and u are free to spam it.

Really? Using all your magicka to spam DD leaves you with no ability to streak escape. That's a risk. Not being able to do anything but watch the animation of DD for its duration leaves you vulnerable to being DPSd down. That's a risk.

Not really its not. Not by a long shot. You cant possibly saying that a stam build that is out of magicka is the same as a magicka build without stamina. Thats just absurd. Magicka on stam builds is used for utility. Stamina on magicka build is used for surviving. You cant afford to be out of stamina and thats not really debatable especially on a magicka sorc that can be one shotted the second their shields drop. And that usually happens when u are CCed and cant break free. A stam sorc can use magicka however he feels. Whether its for dark deal, streak or surge. If u are out of magicka but full on stamina u are not going to die. There is no risk involved for a stam sorc casting dark deal cause they are not losing their magicka even if they are bashed. And getting bashed on a build as mobile as stam sorc isnt that easy. Im sure if there was actually a risk involved with casting it and they couldnt rely on it for sustain then they wouldnt run 600 regen on full dmg setups.

So, what I'm hearing is that Dark Deal isn't the problem, not being able to break free with magicka is.

No, what u are hearing is that draining ur stamina to fill up ur magicka is gonna get u killed. Thats why there is a risk involved with the other morph and thats why dark conversion and dark deal are not the same. Keep trying. You'll get it eventually.

Can you read? I never said they were the same. I said not being able to break free with your highest resource pool was the problem. Keep being a salty forum warrior, I'm sure your life will feel complete eventually.

Thats still dumb cause i never said that the problem is with dark conversion. I said the problem is that DD is OP and ur solution is to change something to bring dark conversion on par with DD?

Sugaroverdose

Dev wrote: »

Wollust wrote: »

Can't we just remove people like you?

You mean all these PVP crying threads wasnt just the attempt? The way PVP players have been acting in this thread, it is clear that they think that the entire game should be based for the 3%... and that they want all the PVE players to quit.

Your sense of entitlement is strong, but the justification for any is non-existent.

Zos, at the end of the day you will need to decide which audience pays you the most. It is clear that the two sides are not compatible, and until there is a clear division between the two, this game will always fall short.

In PvE you mostly can run naked and spam any ability to be competitive, cause mobs are mobs, they don't have any counters to any build, what's your interest here?