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Again can we actually balance dark deal already.
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leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Do you actually believe the bs you are spreading around here?
yes, the truth and facts have that impact. So sorry if you thought otherwise, it will be ok.
I would love to see it proved though: all it takes to really see how the divide would play out is to make a PVE cyrodil. You know that one thing that really scares all the PVP players:What will they do when there are no PVE players to pick on.
The answer is easy enough, the PVP players will quit and the rest wont notice.
Man i stop reading my thread for a few hours and randoms like this appear.
This is nothing to do with pve, a nerf to dark deal won't nerf pve. Now as this is about pvp which it's clear you have 0 clue about, it's clear to everyone else as well so you likely deluded.
Also on the topic on nerf affecting the other side of the game, can we get regen back while blocking please? That was nerfed in pvp because zos though't tanking was too easy in pve. Works both ways you random.Shad0wfire99 wrote: »My only issue with it is that most stam sorcs use it while under effect of shuffle or hurricane. Basically, they get half invisibility which makes me harder to notice them using their skills and react in split second
wow. then you need to turn the brightness on your monitor or tv up. that giant AOE is huge. yugggggge as trump would say.
Instead of answering only to posts that suits you how about u answer one simple question. Why do stam sorcs run with the absolute minimum possible regen and put everything into dmg and still be able to sustain better than any other class?My only issue with it is that most stam sorcs use it while under effect of shuffle or hurricane. Basically, they get half invisibility which makes me harder to notice them using their skills and react in split second
wow. then you need to turn the brightness on your monitor or tv up. that giant AOE is huge. yugggggge as trump would say.
Instead of answering only to posts that suits you how about u answer one simple question. Why do stam sorcs run with the absolute minimum possible regen and put everything into dmg and still be able to sustain better than any other class?
Probably because PvP is all about burst damage. If you can't burst your opponent down quickly, you're probably dead anyway. This is why almost everyone wears heavy armor, which is an actual problem.
Yes PVP is all about burst dmg and people run in heavy armor to get survivability and just use procs to one shot people. Thats a general problem with cyro.
But the point is that stam sorcs CAN sustain in long fights even with the minimum regen possible. Why is that?
Stamsorc can sure, but why? Answer that question. It's not the 3 to 4 casts worth of magicka pool we have. It has nothing to do with the class itself does it? It's broader problem from an armor set and Stamsorc just happens to be able to benefit from it more than others.
Stam sorcs can use ANY heavy armor set and sustain better than any other class by putting everything into dmg. No need for black rose or anything that helps their sustain. Thats the issue. They are completely ignoring sustain cause they just can. Even fengrush said that who is the person that was asking for stam sorc buffs more than anyone.
Heavy armor is the issue... I mean, that's what you just said right? This is what I've been saying. Fix heavy armor maybe?
My mDK can largely ignore [recovery] sustain because of the magicka returns she gets from the way she is built.
I really don't see why the sustain part is an issue, all classes can dps and sustain (whether it be from recovery or another source of resource returns)it if built correctly. The road they take to get there might be different, but in the end the result is the same.
Thats the issue. Thats what im trying to say. They dont build with sustain in mind. They dont need black rose. They dont need regen or cost reduction or serpent mundus. They completely ignore sustain. They put EVERYTHING into dmg and they are good to go. And its not just an issue with heavy armor cause if it was then every other class would be able to do it the same way but they cant. Other classes may need to disengage or run black rose to get more sustain. Sorcs dont need to do that.
My mDK relies on people hitting her or being nearby for sustain, so I don't completely agree with the disengage on that point, and I also will rarely hit DD in pvp combat with out disengaging to en extent anyway
But mDKs are running a sustain set whether that is desert rose or lich or seducer or anything else. So they build for sustain. I cant possibly see how a mDK with 600 regen can run into a fight and sustain forever with 5 rattlecage 5 burning spellweave thief and full spell dmg on jewellery. Actually mDK is the perfect example of how class balance should be. mDK are balancing sustain dmg and survivability and thats the main reason they are struggling in the first place. No other class has to do that.
I am in agreement re mDK but to me it's just a glaring example of the armor being the issue and not the skill.
As a medium wearing Stam sorc I can't sustain on dark deal. I have to move, I have to use magic to keep surge up, conserve to keep streak available when I need it.
And quite honestly especially since I am a moderate-good pvp player and not a great one, going against the meta, taking time to use DD gets me killed if I don't take the time to move away. If someone can't kill me before I get off two of them, standing the to toe, it wasn't dark deal that caused them to fail.
Regardless of my higher than normal (it seems) sustain DD isn't enough to be my panic skill. I use vigor for that, and I break off to DD for Stam when I can. I favor pots.
I think if heavy armor wasn't so strong in general this would be a non issue. Which is why I think asking for it to be nerfed is the wrong course of action, addressing heavy armor is.
But that is how it's mean't to be. A skill should HELP with your sustain and not be ALL of your sustain.
Becausde currently a stam sorc can throw on heavy, any 5x heavy set not even a sustain one just a full dmg one and then go full dmg on everything else and have the best sustain open world in the game. That is just bad game design. Every other class has to build for sustain in some way. Stam sorc run around in heavy with 600~ regen....
Also will people stop bringing in things like cloak/wings etc... Offensive/ defensive abilities?
That is in no way relevant to the discussion on a sustain skill that is over performing.PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...1 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭DRXHarbinger wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »DRXHarbinger wrote: »Do you think that that knights on the battlefield cried for nerfs when guns entered the picture, or did they adapt.
Actually, in many places, they did. They didn't get what they wanted, though. There's probably a lesson in that somewhere.
I didn't write that????
No, it was Dev. Apparently the quote tags screwed up again. Sorry I didn't catch it before going for coffee.0 -
Sigtric✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »Do you actually believe the bs you are spreading around here?
yes, the truth and facts have that impact. So sorry if you thought otherwise, it will be ok.
I would love to see it proved though: all it takes to really see how the divide would play out is to make a PVE cyrodil. You know that one thing that really scares all the PVP players:What will they do when there are no PVE players to pick on.
The answer is easy enough, the PVP players will quit and the rest wont notice.
Man i stop reading my thread for a few hours and randoms like this appear.
This is nothing to do with pve, a nerf to dark deal won't nerf pve. Now as this is about pvp which it's clear you have 0 clue about, it's clear to everyone else as well so you likely deluded.
Also on the topic on nerf affecting the other side of the game, can we get regen back while blocking please? That was nerfed in pvp because zos though't tanking was too easy in pve. Works both ways you random.Shad0wfire99 wrote: »My only issue with it is that most stam sorcs use it while under effect of shuffle or hurricane. Basically, they get half invisibility which makes me harder to notice them using their skills and react in split second
wow. then you need to turn the brightness on your monitor or tv up. that giant AOE is huge. yugggggge as trump would say.
Instead of answering only to posts that suits you how about u answer one simple question. Why do stam sorcs run with the absolute minimum possible regen and put everything into dmg and still be able to sustain better than any other class?My only issue with it is that most stam sorcs use it while under effect of shuffle or hurricane. Basically, they get half invisibility which makes me harder to notice them using their skills and react in split second
wow. then you need to turn the brightness on your monitor or tv up. that giant AOE is huge. yugggggge as trump would say.
Instead of answering only to posts that suits you how about u answer one simple question. Why do stam sorcs run with the absolute minimum possible regen and put everything into dmg and still be able to sustain better than any other class?
Probably because PvP is all about burst damage. If you can't burst your opponent down quickly, you're probably dead anyway. This is why almost everyone wears heavy armor, which is an actual problem.
Yes PVP is all about burst dmg and people run in heavy armor to get survivability and just use procs to one shot people. Thats a general problem with cyro.
But the point is that stam sorcs CAN sustain in long fights even with the minimum regen possible. Why is that?
Stamsorc can sure, but why? Answer that question. It's not the 3 to 4 casts worth of magicka pool we have. It has nothing to do with the class itself does it? It's broader problem from an armor set and Stamsorc just happens to be able to benefit from it more than others.
Stam sorcs can use ANY heavy armor set and sustain better than any other class by putting everything into dmg. No need for black rose or anything that helps their sustain. Thats the issue. They are completely ignoring sustain cause they just can. Even fengrush said that who is the person that was asking for stam sorc buffs more than anyone.
Heavy armor is the issue... I mean, that's what you just said right? This is what I've been saying. Fix heavy armor maybe?
My mDK can largely ignore [recovery] sustain because of the magicka returns she gets from the way she is built.
I really don't see why the sustain part is an issue, all classes can dps and sustain (whether it be from recovery or another source of resource returns)it if built correctly. The road they take to get there might be different, but in the end the result is the same.
Thats the issue. Thats what im trying to say. They dont build with sustain in mind. They dont need black rose. They dont need regen or cost reduction or serpent mundus. They completely ignore sustain. They put EVERYTHING into dmg and they are good to go. And its not just an issue with heavy armor cause if it was then every other class would be able to do it the same way but they cant. Other classes may need to disengage or run black rose to get more sustain. Sorcs dont need to do that.
My mDK relies on people hitting her or being nearby for sustain, so I don't completely agree with the disengage on that point, and I also will rarely hit DD in pvp combat with out disengaging to en extent anyway
But mDKs are running a sustain set whether that is desert rose or lich or seducer or anything else. So they build for sustain. I cant possibly see how a mDK with 600 regen can run into a fight and sustain forever with 5 rattlecage 5 burning spellweave thief and full spell dmg on jewellery. Actually mDK is the perfect example of how class balance should be. mDK are balancing sustain dmg and survivability and thats the main reason they are struggling in the first place. No other class has to do that.
I am in agreement re mDK but to me it's just a glaring example of the armor being the issue and not the skill.
As a medium wearing Stam sorc I can't sustain on dark deal. I have to move, I have to use magic to keep surge up, conserve to keep streak available when I need it.
And quite honestly especially since I am a moderate-good pvp player and not a great one, going against the meta, taking time to use DD gets me killed if I don't take the time to move away. If someone can't kill me before I get off two of them, standing the to toe, it wasn't dark deal that caused them to fail.
Regardless of my higher than normal (it seems) sustain DD isn't enough to be my panic skill. I use vigor for that, and I break off to DD for Stam when I can. I favor pots.
I think if heavy armor wasn't so strong in general this would be a non issue. Which is why I think asking for it to be nerfed is the wrong course of action, addressing heavy armor is.
But that is how it's mean't to be. A skill should HELP with your sustain and not be ALL of your sustain.
Becausde currently a stam sorc can throw on heavy, any 5x heavy set not even a sustain one just a full dmg one and then go full dmg on everything else and have the best sustain open world in the game. That is just bad game design. Every other class has to build for sustain in some way. Stam sorc run around in heavy with 600~ regen....
Also will people stop bringing in things like cloak/wings etc... Offensive/ defensive abilities?
That is in no way relevant to the discussion on a sustain skill that is over performing.
I want to ping on the part I bolded, with a little about what is before and after.
Bad game design? Absolutely agree.
The difference is, I don't believe it is dark deals fault. As I mentioned I think it would be a non issue if the heavy armor issue didn't make it one. You take heavy armor out of the equation and it's a mediocre skill at best. I took the heavy armor passives out of it for my own stam sorc, and I tell you this much, I need it, but it's no where near anything for me to rely on. i have to use my regen and vigor and DD combined to sustain and stay alive.
Address the Heavy Armor issue. That's the problem.
Now there's a couple different ways that could be done. Having been watching the complaints about the current PVP meta, Heavy Armor seems to be OP according to most, for just about everyone who puts it on. Looking at Constitution and Wrath might be the answer.
On the other hand, adding a trigger on DD itself = if using 5pc heavy armor DD, costs more/roots caster/has dimishing returns/idk - that might be an answer too.
All I know is the current call to nerf DD hurts those of us who aren't abusing heavy armor likely being broken or working in ways other than intended to do damage/sustain/live.
Stormproof: Vibeke - 50 EP mDragonknight | Savi Dreloth - 50 EP Magsorc | Sadi Dreloth - 50 EP Magblade | Sigtric Stormaxe - 50 EP Stamsorc | Valora Dreloth - 50 EP Magplar | Sigtric the Unbearable 50 EP Stam Warden
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Show Me Your Dunmer
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acw37162✭✭✭✭✭
✭starkerealm wrote: »
I know of at least two people who run it very effectively, regardless it still exists.
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starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »
I know of at least two people who run it very effectively, regardless it still exists.
I miss the days when you could slap it on a non-tank and be fine... also when you didn't have to micromanage Siphoning Attacks.1 -
Dev✭✭✭✭TequilaFire wrote: »With due respect you are so wrong. I can't even remember the last time that me or anyone in my PvP guild said let's go hunting PvE players at quest hubs.
While i am glad your guild doesn't do that, it doesn't mean that it doesn't happen.Like i said stop spreading ur bs to avoid urself further embarrassment cause you clearly have no idea about what u are talking about.
While streak is very nice, it is not what i would say defines the entirety of the class. Yes, every class has some sustain, but on sorcs its everywhere. I have played Mag and Stam templars and NB, and they do not have the same level. Altmer Mag temp with channeled focus is pretty close, but still ran out of resources.A good PVP player who can constantly adapt to its opponent (cause u know its not always the same) im prety sure will be able to maintain a simple rotation in PVE and just follow some mechanics.
For a good player, sure.... do you have any idea on how many bad PVP players there are?
Sorry but i laugh when i see a dps in full heavy taunting the mob off the tank and dropping.
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leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭TequilaFire wrote: »With due respect you are so wrong. I can't even remember the last time that me or anyone in my PvP guild said let's go hunting PvE players at quest hubs.
While i am glad your guild doesn't do that, it doesn't mean that it doesn't happen.Like i said stop spreading ur bs to avoid urself further embarrassment cause you clearly have no idea about what u are talking about.
While streak is very nice, it is not what i would say defines the entirety of the class. Yes, every class has some sustain, but on sorcs its everywhere. I have played Mag and Stam templars and NB, and they do not have the same level. Altmer Mag temp with channeled focus is pretty close, but still ran out of resources.A good PVP player who can constantly adapt to its opponent (cause u know its not always the same) im prety sure will be able to maintain a simple rotation in PVE and just follow some mechanics.
For a good player, sure.... do you have any idea on how many bad PVP players there are?
Sorry but i laugh when i see a dps in full heavy taunting the mob off the tank and dropping.
Well to be honest most of those 'bad pvp players' are pve players running around in a zerg try to get vigor or such.
The sorc's sustain passives aren't the problem with stam sorc's dark deal is.
Say a 20% stamina per cast reduction which is roughly 4k or 4.2k around there as well as a 40% healing reduction which is around 3k per cast, it's a sustain skill and not a heal stam sorc already have access to vigor/rally and crit surge for heals they don't need 5k everything they spam dark deal for resources.
Also make it so if someone bashes the dark deal they lose the magicka cost of it, because currently there is no risk for spamming it and it's all reward.
That saying i'd still like some sort of channel snare it's it's near impossible to interrupt it on a mag dk, mag nb or magplar because of how mobile stam sorc are and the fact it's actually worse for you if you do bash it. You bash it for 2k stamina the stam sorc gets a free break and and continues casting and regains more stam.
PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...0 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »TequilaFire wrote: »With due respect you are so wrong. I can't even remember the last time that me or anyone in my PvP guild said let's go hunting PvE players at quest hubs.
While i am glad your guild doesn't do that, it doesn't mean that it doesn't happen.Like i said stop spreading ur bs to avoid urself further embarrassment cause you clearly have no idea about what u are talking about.
While streak is very nice, it is not what i would say defines the entirety of the class. Yes, every class has some sustain, but on sorcs its everywhere. I have played Mag and Stam templars and NB, and they do not have the same level. Altmer Mag temp with channeled focus is pretty close, but still ran out of resources.A good PVP player who can constantly adapt to its opponent (cause u know its not always the same) im prety sure will be able to maintain a simple rotation in PVE and just follow some mechanics.
For a good player, sure.... do you have any idea on how many bad PVP players there are?
Sorry but i laugh when i see a dps in full heavy taunting the mob off the tank and dropping.
Well to be honest most of those 'bad pvp players' are pve players running around in a zerg try to get vigor or such.
The sorc's sustain passives aren't the problem with stam sorc's dark deal is.
Say a 20% stamina per cast reduction which is roughly 4k or 4.2k around there as well as a 40% healing reduction which is around 3k per cast, it's a sustain skill and not a heal stam sorc already have access to vigor/rally and crit surge for heals they don't need 5k everything they spam dark deal for resources.
Also make it so if someone bashes the dark deal they lose the magicka cost of it, because currently there is no risk for spamming it and it's all reward.
That saying i'd still like some sort of channel snare it's it's near impossible to interrupt it on a mag dk, mag nb or magplar because of how mobile stam sorc are and the fact it's actually worse for you if you do bash it. You bash it for 2k stamina the stam sorc gets a free break and and continues casting and regains more stam.
Thats not what he meant. What he says is that sorc as a class is defined by their sustain in PVP and not by their mobility. He has never done PVP btw. Dont try to argue with him. He is just gonna respond you with PVP should be removed from the game cause only 3% of the players PVP. And his proof of that is a report that shows 30% of the people never made it past lvl 10.0 -
MaxwellC✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@pieratsos
You don't play a DK, don't ever mention us in your argument again. Scales n talons do not hold your ground, sorry we stop being able to do that when dynamic ulti regen was gone but ofc you know that... oh wait.
Scales are still broken as it reflects damage but 2/10 times I'll receive the damage while reflecting it (happened today on my mag dk) so I just removed it off my bar entirely again. Talons is cool but that doesn't kill people so ofc I'm not gonna spam it consistently trying to pop my power lash.
Stam DK: These skills do not benefit us at all, the scales use to when we could reflect comets (including skorias) but nope we cannot anymore. Only skills useful imo in PvP for a stam DK are. Igneous shield, Corrosive armor, and Fossilize; I would say noxious breath but the debuff doesn't apply all the time + it literally misses the target when it's right in front of them.不動の Steadfast - Unwavering
XBL Gamer Tag - Maxwell
XB1 Maxwell Crystal - NA DC CP 800+ Redguard Stamina DK
XB1 Max Crystal - NA DC CP 800+ Brenton Magicka DK
PC Maxwell-Crystal - NA DC - CP 200+ Brenton Magicka DK 「Retired」Band Camp statements: To state "But this one time I saw X doing X... so that justifies X" Refers to the Band camp statement.
Coined by Maxwell1 -
Phica_Lovic✭✭✭✭No.
It's not a channel, it's a 1-second delay.PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!
Phica -Max CP - Lvl 50 Argonian Sorc Healer since launch0 -
Phica_Lovic✭✭✭✭Also, sorcs dont have vigor and rally if that's not their build.PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!
Phica -Max CP - Lvl 50 Argonian Sorc Healer since launch0 -
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Phica_Lovic wrote: »No.
It's not a channel, it's a 1-second delay.
It's a channel...Phica_Lovic wrote: »Also, sorcs dont have vigor and rally if that's not their build.
But thats like saying no stam class has rally or vigor -_-
Everyone who has a basic idea of pvp uses rally and vigor. If you don't they you have no clue what your doing, they are a must for open world pvp.PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...0 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »Phica_Lovic wrote: »No.
It's not a channel, it's a 1-second delay.
It's a channel...
It's a one second cast time. That is, oddly enough, different from a channeled ability. As far as I can remember, sorcs don't have any channeled abilities. Hell, there aren't many in the game. Spells with cast time? Sure, it's got those. But, not many channeled abilities.0 -
DRXHarbinger✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭OK I see the issue here. The magika cost needs to come at the start and not at the end. If you have hurricane and surge up and someone is just bashing you whilst you bash DD you still gain stamina whilst surge keeps you alive lol.PC Master Race
1001CP
8 Flawless Toons, all Classes.
Master Angler
Dro-M'artha Destroyer (at last)
Tamriel Hero
Grand Overlord
Every Skyshard
Down With BOP!0 -
NoFlash✭✭✭That skill and hurricane dots too stronk. At least halve it in pvp.Daggerfall Covenant
The Ninja Squirrels0 -
ObsidianMichi✭✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »
But thats like saying no stam class has rally or vigor -_-
Everyone who has a basic idea of pvp uses rally and vigor. If you don't they you have no clue what your doing, they are a must for open world pvp.
So... now every Stamina build must equip a two-hander and vigor or they don't know what they're doing? What?2 -
Ashamray✭✭✭✭✭It's not often easy to interrupt Dark Deal: it's really fast cast, but I don't want it to be nerfed.
#give some tweaks to the light armor
#repair stoopid skills (Dragonblood, Eclipse, Agony etc)
#make Templars less depended on BoL \ HotD in terms of defenseEdited by Ashamray on December 22, 2016 8:41AMBoadrig, EU PC
Very Balanced
Battleground Beta Testers
Cite's Legacy
Colosseum
Imperial City frequenter
Imperial City feedback and suggestions0 -
Enslaved✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Do you actually believe the bs you are spreading around here?
yes, the truth and facts have that impact. So sorry if you thought otherwise, it will be ok.
I would love to see it proved though: all it takes to really see how the divide would play out is to make a PVE cyrodil. You know that one thing that really scares all the PVP players:What will they do when there are no PVE players to pick on.
The answer is easy enough, the PVP players will quit and the rest wont notice.
You must understand this: When PvP dies, ESO dies.
PvP is what makes ESO a living game.
PvP is a crown of ESO.
All you do in PvE, dungeons, trials, dragonstar, maelstorm... All of that is ment to be done to make you into PvP beast.
I mean, if you already have all gear you desired, in perfect traits, do you go to kill stuff in PvE that are the same every single time or you go to PvP?
And trust me, I am against all heavy nerfs, I have no problem with dark deal at all. But you must understand that this game is all about PvP, and even Zos knows it. As long as there are PvPers, game will have enough population for them to milk.
Once PvP dies, its rip cow, rip ESO.
How they should take care of all PvP balance is quite easy. We already have many skills that behave differently when used on players compared to mobs and NPCs. Spread that to other problematic skills, and it will solve much of our problems. That is the only way to make both PvPers and PvE players satisfied.1 -
FloppyTouch✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Do you actually believe the bs you are spreading around here?
yes, the truth and facts have that impact. So sorry if you thought otherwise, it will be ok.
I would love to see it proved though: all it takes to really see how the divide would play out is to make a PVE cyrodil. You know that one thing that really scares all the PVP players:What will they do when there are no PVE players to pick on.
The answer is easy enough, the PVP players will quit and the rest wont notice.
You must understand this: When PvP dies, ESO dies.
PvP is what makes ESO a living game.
PvP is a crown of ESO.
All you do in PvE, dungeons, trials, dragonstar, maelstorm... All of that is ment to be done to make you into PvP beast.
I mean, if you already have all gear you desired, in perfect traits, do you go to kill stuff in PvE that are the same every single time or you go to PvP?
And trust me, I am against all heavy nerfs, I have no problem with dark deal at all. But you must understand that this game is all about PvP, and even Zos knows it. As long as there are PvPers, game will have enough population for them to milk.
Once PvP dies, its rip cow, rip ESO.
How they should take care of all PvP balance is quite easy. We already have many skills that behave differently when used on players compared to mobs and NPCs. Spread that to other problematic skills, and it will solve much of our problems. That is the only way to make both PvPers and PvE players satisfied.
I'm a pvp player and I have to say ur 100% wrong on the game surviving bc of pvpers. We make up a very small part of the player base. It's a part of the game I was shocked to find out of many hard core npc killers are in the game myself but these try hard elitist dungeons rulers make up a much bigger part of the game
I agree with skills should work differently in pvp then pve this would stop the crying a lot on there side and let ZoS balance things out for just us the pvp playersEdited by FloppyTouch on December 22, 2016 8:46AM3 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Everyone knows dark deal and hurricane need to be nerfed tf does no one pvp?
Judging by the number of hollow diamonds I see running around in PvE zones? Nope. No one.Do you actually believe the bs you are spreading around here?
yes, the truth and facts have that impact. So sorry if you thought otherwise, it will be ok.
I would love to see it proved though: all it takes to really see how the divide would play out is to make a PVE cyrodil. You know that one thing that really scares all the PVP players:What will they do when there are no PVE players to pick on.
The answer is easy enough, the PVP players will quit and the rest wont notice.
You must understand this: When PvP dies, ESO dies.
PvP is what makes ESO a living game.
PvP is a crown of ESO.
All you do in PvE, dungeons, trials, dragonstar, maelstorm... All of that is ment to be done to make you into PvP beast.
I mean, if you already have all gear you desired, in perfect traits, do you go to kill stuff in PvE that are the same every single time or you go to PvP?
And trust me, I am against all heavy nerfs, I have no problem with dark deal at all. But you must understand that this game is all about PvP, and even Zos knows it. As long as there are PvPers, game will have enough population for them to milk.
Once PvP dies, its rip cow, rip ESO.
How they should take care of all PvP balance is quite easy. We already have many skills that behave differently when used on players compared to mobs and NPCs. Spread that to other problematic skills, and it will solve much of our problems. That is the only way to make both PvPers and PvE players satisfied.
No one.
I appreciate that you enjoy it, but PvP is still an extreme minority of the playerbase. Most people wander in, make it to Tyro for Vigor, leave, and never return. Hell, ZOS had to stick a critical skill in there to even get people to play at all.
So, no.0 -
Il preface this by saying I don't know anything about PvP.
In pve it's a fine skill it could restore 10k Stam and it wouldn't matter in the long run (ignoring leaderboards). If nerfs need to happen in pvp then make them pvp nerfs, e.g. In Ic and cyrodyl it doesent restore health, in pve it acts as normal.
I'm fairly against nerfing anything I'm of the opinion that buffing the other classes is a better way of nerfing, then no one gets mad and there's a better feeling about changes.Edited by TheRopemaker on December 22, 2016 10:23AM1 -
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »Phica_Lovic wrote: »No.
It's not a channel, it's a 1-second delay.
It's a channel...
It's a one second cast time. That is, oddly enough, different from a channeled ability. As far as I can remember, sorcs don't have any channeled abilities. Hell, there aren't many in the game. Spells with cast time? Sure, it's got those. But, not many channeled abilities.
All skills with cast times have a snare attached to them, snipe, flare etc... dark deal is the only one without it.PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...0 -
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It's not often easy to interrupt Dark Deal: it's really fast cast, but I don't want it to be nerfed.
#give some tweaks to the light armor
#repair stoopid skills (Dragonblood, Eclipse, Agony etc)
#make Templars less depended on BoL \ HotD in terms of defense
Im not sure how any of those # are relevant to the discussion...TheRopemaker wrote: »Il preface this by saying I don't know anything about PvP.
In pve it's a fine skill it could restore 10k Stam and it wouldn't matter in the long run (ignoring leaderboards). If nerds need to happen in pvp then make them pvp nerfs, e.g. In Ic and cyrodyl it doesent restore health, in pve it acts as normal.
I'm fairly against needing anything I'm of the opinion that buffing the other classes is a better way of needing, then no one gets mad and there's a better feeling about changes.
Continually buffing things so that they are equal to already broken things is the reason for the power creep we have today.
Also whats easier? Buffing everything similar to dark deal to make them as strong
Or nerfing the 1 skill that is currently too strong?
If you buffed other class sustain equal to dark deal then everything would run around in 5x heavy damage set and have infinite sustain... not ty i'd like some though't to be put into builds and not just throw on a much dmg as possible.PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...0 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »Phica_Lovic wrote: »No.
It's not a channel, it's a 1-second delay.
It's a channel...
It's a one second cast time. That is, oddly enough, different from a channeled ability. As far as I can remember, sorcs don't have any channeled abilities. Hell, there aren't many in the game. Spells with cast time? Sure, it's got those. But, not many channeled abilities.
All skills with cast times have a snare attached to them, snipe, flare etc... dark deal is the only one without it.
Well, that's not true because Dark Exchange and Dark Conversion also lack roots (I think). I can actually think of two other abilities that both have cast times and lack roots, but in both cases, those actually are channeled abilities.
It's also something that didn't used to be true. The entire Dark stat manipulation family used to have a root associated with them. This was intentionally removed a couple patches back. Before that, these abilities just weren't worth using at all, so the root was removed to bring them up to snuff. (I think the stats may have been adjusted as well, but I don't remember because, when the abilities rooted you there was no reason to slot them.)0 -
Biro123✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Havn't played my stamsorc for a while now..
Just want to add that with redguard, heavy armour and dark deal, he would still run out of stam a lot and that's when deaths happened.. It simply isn't true that you just slap this stuff on and can sustain forever - its very situational.
Lets say its a zerg vs zerg range standoff or siege.. You buff up (hurricane for the resist buff), shuffle, crit surge(which, btw takes more than half your magicka), dark deal - cos you've lost that much stam juts by buffing (magicka now empty)..
Start pew-pew with the bow.. you're not getting attacked back so no regen to stam or magicka from constitution.. you're not in melee - so no redguard passive... Before you know it stam is half gone - magicka almost enough for another dark deal, but you know yo'll need to rebuff crit-surge soon.. Then you end up in melee and its game over. Youre starting it almost empty in all resources with your buffs needing to be re-applied very soon.
How many fights in Cyro start this way with a ranged standoff..? Its one of those things that seems very strong in small-scale or 1v1's but doesn't scale so well.
Minalan owes me a beer.
PC EU Megaserver
Minie Mo - Stam/Magblade - DC
Woody Ron - Stamplar - DC
Aidee - Magsorc - DC
Notadorf - Stamsorc - DC
Khattman Doo - Stamblade - Relegated to Crafter, cos AD.1 -
Tasear✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭By design and history, sorcerers should have better sustain. It's already increased costs from pass. Before we nerf this we take Templar shards away.0 -
FloppyTouch✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Havn't played my stamsorc for a while now..
Just want to add that with redguard, heavy armour and dark deal, he would still run out of stam a lot and that's when deaths happened.. It simply isn't true that you just slap this stuff on and can sustain forever - its very situational.
Lets say its a zerg vs zerg range standoff or siege.. You buff up (hurricane for the resist buff), shuffle, crit surge(which, btw takes more than half your magicka), dark deal - cos you've lost that much stam juts by buffing (magicka now empty)..
Start pew-pew with the bow.. you're not getting attacked back so no regen to stam or magicka from constitution.. you're not in melee - so no redguard passive... Before you know it stam is half gone - magicka almost enough for another dark deal, but you know yo'll need to rebuff crit-surge soon.. Then you end up in melee and its game over. Youre starting it almost empty in all resources with your buffs needing to be re-applied very soon.
How many fights in Cyro start this way with a ranged standoff..? Its one of those things that seems very strong in small-scale or 1v1's but doesn't scale so well.
Range standoff with ZergVZerg? I thought they just lay down siege and not use any skills. I may be wrong I don't Zerg but that's what i see0 -
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Havn't played my stamsorc for a while now..
Just want to add that with redguard, heavy armour and dark deal, he would still run out of stam a lot and that's when deaths happened.. It simply isn't true that you just slap this stuff on and can sustain forever - its very situational.
Lets say its a zerg vs zerg range standoff or siege.. You buff up (hurricane for the resist buff), shuffle, crit surge(which, btw takes more than half your magicka), dark deal - cos you've lost that much stam juts by buffing (magicka now empty)..
Start pew-pew with the bow.. you're not getting attacked back so no regen to stam or magicka from constitution.. you're not in melee - so no redguard passive... Before you know it stam is half gone - magicka almost enough for another dark deal, but you know yo'll need to rebuff crit-surge soon.. Then you end up in melee and its game over. Youre starting it almost empty in all resources with your buffs needing to be re-applied very soon.
How many fights in Cyro start this way with a ranged standoff..? Its one of those things that seems very strong in small-scale or 1v1's but doesn't scale so well.
1. If you actually played sorc you'd know you don't run out of stamina...
2. It is true you just slap on heavy and dark deal and sustain forever... it is not situational its super easy to pull of with no penalty for being interrupted..
3. I don't zerg... all game mechanics and skill is pointless in zergs anyway that is based off numbers and the numbersof ults people drop at once and irrelevant
4. Surge doesn't take half your magicka... do you even stam sorc? Stop exaggerating numbers and facts for the benefit of your 'point'.
5. Your entire pew pew bow argument is actually just stupid, no one 'pew pews', again zerging is pointless. Your numbers and guesses are completely off. How will you have half stamina before you have another dark deal? What are you casting with your pew pew? Injection doesn't cost much...
All i got from this is you don't or have little idea how to play stam sorc, your a zerger, you exaggerate things and think melee is game over?
Really that is your argument?
PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...0 -
Brrrofski✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I'm confused why this is a PvP vs PvE issue?
Who's using dark deal in PvE? You don't even have to sustain in PvE... Only a sorc tank would use it.1
This discussion has been closed.