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Again can we actually balance dark deal already.
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starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »
*Snorts*
Sorcs have been hilariously powerful from time to time.
Magica, yeh. STAM sorc (which this thread is on about) were incredibly weak before 1T. No class passives helped them and we all used boundless storm, the magica morph of hurricane (it was crappy thundering presence back then).
So not sure what you're snorting at.
I'm talking about Stamsorcs. I've been messing around with stam and hybrid sorc builds since 1.5. They didn't explode before 1Tam, but they've been pretty impressive a couple times along the way.1 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Sugaroverdose wrote: »I've actually complained about HA changes since they were applied on PTS, HA should be for tanking, so block cost reduction(PvE side) and CC break cost reduction (PvP side) should be as HA passives instead of damage+infinite sustain in specific builds.
To be clear - i've played heavy magplar those time.
Personally, the thing about HA that bugs me right now is Wrath and proc sets. Mostly Proc sets.
It's kinda cool that you can take HA, go into combat, and actually connect with some force. But, Proc sets, man. Ugh.0 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Shad0wfire99 wrote: »My only issue with it is that most stam sorcs use it while under effect of shuffle or hurricane. Basically, they get half invisibility which makes me harder to notice them using their skills and react in split second
wow. then you need to turn the brightness on your monitor or tv up. that giant AOE is huge. yugggggge as trump would say.
Instead of answering only to posts that suits you how about u answer one simple question. Why do stam sorcs run with the absolute minimum possible regen and put everything into dmg and still be able to sustain better than any other class?My only issue with it is that most stam sorcs use it while under effect of shuffle or hurricane. Basically, they get half invisibility which makes me harder to notice them using their skills and react in split second
wow. then you need to turn the brightness on your monitor or tv up. that giant AOE is huge. yugggggge as trump would say.
Instead of answering only to posts that suits you how about u answer one simple question. Why do stam sorcs run with the absolute minimum possible regen and put everything into dmg and still be able to sustain better than any other class?
Probably because PvP is all about burst damage. If you can't burst your opponent down quickly, you're probably dead anyway. This is why almost everyone wears heavy armor, which is an actual problem.
Yes PVP is all about burst dmg and people run in heavy armor to get survivability and just use procs to one shot people. Thats a general problem with cyro.
But the point is that stam sorcs CAN sustain in long fights even with the minimum regen possible. Why is that?0 -
bryanhaas✭✭✭✭Kinda confused about this thread, missed the plague of immortal sorcs in pvp.PS4 NA AD GM formerly known as GM of "The Children of the Void"
9 trait crafter I do all the things (Yes I mean ALL the things ;0).
Price list: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1FTV7ACtmEpQQwsEiHVcrBxC0zKaj6LKvc3An7dGG2t0/edit?usp=sharing
Youtube: MaulochBaal https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCRav05_8nWGvlTrfBBefaEw/featured0 -
bryanhaas✭✭✭✭DRXHarbinger wrote: »Lol its a 2.5k heal in pvp....really? You're crying over that. Even dragon blood gives more of a heal. Maybe stop standing around spamming bow attacks hoping it'll work. Keep on them with crushing shock and they'll never get to use it. Stam users should be in thier face anyway and just bash.
Let me guess the real issue is you're scared of hurricane. Maybe nerf that as well while we're at it.
It might be more than 2.5k, mine in PVE is around 8,800 so shouldn't that be 4,400 in PVP? In any event Sorcs are not dominating PVP though so does not really matter.PS4 NA AD GM formerly known as GM of "The Children of the Void"
9 trait crafter I do all the things (Yes I mean ALL the things ;0).
Price list: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1FTV7ACtmEpQQwsEiHVcrBxC0zKaj6LKvc3An7dGG2t0/edit?usp=sharing
Youtube: MaulochBaal https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCRav05_8nWGvlTrfBBefaEw/featured2 -
Dev✭✭✭✭As someone who enjoys both types of content, there is no room for this nonsense. Which playerbase is bigger doesn't matter. ESO was designed around an AvAvA war and there will always be both types of content to suit that.
Your math has data behind it that is so incomplete it is laughable. And RE the bit I bolded, you're saying PVP players have no right to discount PVE when you're doing the same thing in the opposite direction.
No, the entire game was not based on AvAvA, and no matter how many times a PVP player wants to believe it, will not make it true.
It is a PVE game which has PVP elements because there are people silly enough to want CoD with swords. Basically an executive said to another, "how can we maximize the audience?", and some one made the mistake of saying PVP. Now several years later, i wonder if they realized exactly how much PVP cost them in both players leaving as well as time spent needlessly in dev cycles.
The issues are that PVP players are causing issues in the PVE side, constantly act as if the entire game should center on them, and more to the point tend to act as if the PVE players only exist to give them AP. They act as if they are some grand champion of balance, saving all of us when they are in fact the worst thing to happen to this game.
Do you think that that knights on the battlefield cried for nerfs when guns entered the picture, or did they adapt. Chain mail was replaced by plate when archery became mainstream, and plate was replaced by Kevlar.
Somehow i doubt the last thoughts of the fallen were: "Guns are too op, nerf em, urggh"
2 -
Sigtric✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Shad0wfire99 wrote: »My only issue with it is that most stam sorcs use it while under effect of shuffle or hurricane. Basically, they get half invisibility which makes me harder to notice them using their skills and react in split second
wow. then you need to turn the brightness on your monitor or tv up. that giant AOE is huge. yugggggge as trump would say.
Instead of answering only to posts that suits you how about u answer one simple question. Why do stam sorcs run with the absolute minimum possible regen and put everything into dmg and still be able to sustain better than any other class?My only issue with it is that most stam sorcs use it while under effect of shuffle or hurricane. Basically, they get half invisibility which makes me harder to notice them using their skills and react in split second
wow. then you need to turn the brightness on your monitor or tv up. that giant AOE is huge. yugggggge as trump would say.
Instead of answering only to posts that suits you how about u answer one simple question. Why do stam sorcs run with the absolute minimum possible regen and put everything into dmg and still be able to sustain better than any other class?
Probably because PvP is all about burst damage. If you can't burst your opponent down quickly, you're probably dead anyway. This is why almost everyone wears heavy armor, which is an actual problem.
Yes PVP is all about burst dmg and people run in heavy armor to get survivability and just use procs to one shot people. Thats a general problem with cyro.
But the point is that stam sorcs CAN sustain in long fights even with the minimum regen possible. Why is that?
Stamsorc can sure, but why? Answer that question. It's not the 3 to 4 casts worth of magicka pool we have. It has nothing to do with the class itself does it? It's broader problem from an armor set and Stamsorc just happens to be able to benefit from it more than others.
Stormproof: Vibeke - 50 EP mDragonknight | Savi Dreloth - 50 EP Magsorc | Sadi Dreloth - 50 EP Magblade | Sigtric Stormaxe - 50 EP Stamsorc | Valora Dreloth - 50 EP Magplar | Sigtric the Unbearable 50 EP Stam Warden
Scrub: Chews-on-Beavers - 50 EP DK Tank | Vera the Wild - 50 EP magicka Warden | Sigtric the Axe - 50 EP Dragonknight Crafter | Sigtric the Blade - 50 EP Lost Nightblade | Sigtric the Savage - 50 EP magicka Templar | Vibeka Shadowblade - 50 Ep Stealthy Ganky Nightblade |
Show Me Your Dunmer
[/center]1 -
Shad0wfire99✭✭✭✭✭
✭Shad0wfire99 wrote: »My only issue with it is that most stam sorcs use it while under effect of shuffle or hurricane. Basically, they get half invisibility which makes me harder to notice them using their skills and react in split second
wow. then you need to turn the brightness on your monitor or tv up. that giant AOE is huge. yugggggge as trump would say.
Instead of answering only to posts that suits you how about u answer one simple question. Why do stam sorcs run with the absolute minimum possible regen and put everything into dmg and still be able to sustain better than any other class?My only issue with it is that most stam sorcs use it while under effect of shuffle or hurricane. Basically, they get half invisibility which makes me harder to notice them using their skills and react in split second
wow. then you need to turn the brightness on your monitor or tv up. that giant AOE is huge. yugggggge as trump would say.
Instead of answering only to posts that suits you how about u answer one simple question. Why do stam sorcs run with the absolute minimum possible regen and put everything into dmg and still be able to sustain better than any other class?
Probably because PvP is all about burst damage. If you can't burst your opponent down quickly, you're probably dead anyway. This is why almost everyone wears heavy armor, which is an actual problem.
Yes PVP is all about burst dmg and people run in heavy armor to get survivability and just use procs to one shot people. Thats a general problem with cyro.
But the point is that stam sorcs CAN sustain in long fights even with the minimum regen possible. Why is that?
Stamsorc can sure, but why? Answer that question. It's not the 3 to 4 casts worth of magicka pool we have. It has nothing to do with the class itself does it? It's broader problem from an armor set and Stamsorc just happens to be able to benefit from it more than others.
Ding! We have a winner!
XBox NA2 -
Wollust✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭As someone who enjoys both types of content, there is no room for this nonsense. Which playerbase is bigger doesn't matter. ESO was designed around an AvAvA war and there will always be both types of content to suit that.
Your math has data behind it that is so incomplete it is laughable. And RE the bit I bolded, you're saying PVP players have no right to discount PVE when you're doing the same thing in the opposite direction.
No, the entire game was not based on AvAvA, and no matter how many times a PVP player wants to believe it, will not make it true.
It is a PVE game which has PVP elements because there are people silly enough to want CoD with swords. Basically an executive said to another, "how can we maximize the audience?", and some one made the mistake of saying PVP. Now several years later, i wonder if they realized exactly how much PVP cost them in both players leaving as well as time spent needlessly in dev cycles.
The issues are that PVP players are causing issues in the PVE side, constantly act as if the entire game should center on them, and more to the point tend to act as if the PVE players only exist to give them AP. They act as if they are some grand champion of balance, saving all of us when they are in fact the worst thing to happen to this game.
Do you think that that knights on the battlefield cried for nerfs when guns entered the picture, or did they adapt. Chain mail was replaced by plate when archery became mainstream, and plate was replaced by Kevlar.
Somehow i doubt the last thoughts of the fallen were: "Guns are too op, nerf em, urggh"
Do you actually believe the bs you are spreading around here?Susano'o
Zerg Squad2 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Shad0wfire99 wrote: »My only issue with it is that most stam sorcs use it while under effect of shuffle or hurricane. Basically, they get half invisibility which makes me harder to notice them using their skills and react in split second
wow. then you need to turn the brightness on your monitor or tv up. that giant AOE is huge. yugggggge as trump would say.
Instead of answering only to posts that suits you how about u answer one simple question. Why do stam sorcs run with the absolute minimum possible regen and put everything into dmg and still be able to sustain better than any other class?My only issue with it is that most stam sorcs use it while under effect of shuffle or hurricane. Basically, they get half invisibility which makes me harder to notice them using their skills and react in split second
wow. then you need to turn the brightness on your monitor or tv up. that giant AOE is huge. yugggggge as trump would say.
Instead of answering only to posts that suits you how about u answer one simple question. Why do stam sorcs run with the absolute minimum possible regen and put everything into dmg and still be able to sustain better than any other class?
Probably because PvP is all about burst damage. If you can't burst your opponent down quickly, you're probably dead anyway. This is why almost everyone wears heavy armor, which is an actual problem.
Yes PVP is all about burst dmg and people run in heavy armor to get survivability and just use procs to one shot people. Thats a general problem with cyro.
But the point is that stam sorcs CAN sustain in long fights even with the minimum regen possible. Why is that?
Stamsorc can sure, but why? Answer that question. It's not the 3 to 4 casts worth of magicka pool we have. It has nothing to do with the class itself does it? It's broader problem from an armor set and Stamsorc just happens to be able to benefit from it more than others.
Stam sorcs can use ANY heavy armor set and sustain better than any other class by putting everything into dmg. No need for black rose or anything that helps their sustain. Thats the issue. They are completely ignoring sustain cause they just can. Even fengrush said that who is the person that was asking for stam sorc buffs more than anyone.0 -
Sigtric✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭As someone who enjoys both types of content, there is no room for this nonsense. Which playerbase is bigger doesn't matter. ESO was designed around an AvAvA war and there will always be both types of content to suit that.
Your math has data behind it that is so incomplete it is laughable. And RE the bit I bolded, you're saying PVP players have no right to discount PVE when you're doing the same thing in the opposite direction.
No, the entire game was not based on AvAvA, and no matter how many times a PVP player wants to believe it, will not make it true.
It is a PVE game which has PVP elements because there are people silly enough to want CoD with swords. Basically an executive said to another, "how can we maximize the audience?", and some one made the mistake of saying PVP. Now several years later, i wonder if they realized exactly how much PVP cost them in both players leaving as well as time spent needlessly in dev cycles.
The issues are that PVP players are causing issues in the PVE side, constantly act as if the entire game should center on them, and more to the point tend to act as if the PVE players only exist to give them AP. They act as if they are some grand champion of balance, saving all of us when they are in fact the worst thing to happen to this game.
Do you think that that knights on the battlefield cried for nerfs when guns entered the picture, or did they adapt. Chain mail was replaced by plate when archery became mainstream, and plate was replaced by Kevlar.
Somehow i doubt the last thoughts of the fallen were: "Guns are too op, nerf em, urggh"
So, that little story line in the game.. you know the one where a daedric prince is using the ongoing 3 alliance war to his benefit to slip in and try to bring Nirn into Oblivion has nothing to do with the PVE game?
That War in Cyrodiil is the darn background the main story line sits on. It's why we choose a faction, and fight for their leader and people. It's why this very same MAIN story line...Has an entire series of quests set up to tell the 3 leaders to knock off their nonsense and come together to defeat Molag Bal. Up until this point they are largely focused on the WAR IN CYRODIIL and advancing their agenda towards the throne.
Every time you start to spew words into this and other nerf threads it just shows your blatant ignorance.
FWIW I for one believe that PVP balancing should only take affect inside Cyrodiil and not change skills in PVE, as I play both kinds of content.
Stormproof: Vibeke - 50 EP mDragonknight | Savi Dreloth - 50 EP Magsorc | Sadi Dreloth - 50 EP Magblade | Sigtric Stormaxe - 50 EP Stamsorc | Valora Dreloth - 50 EP Magplar | Sigtric the Unbearable 50 EP Stam Warden
Scrub: Chews-on-Beavers - 50 EP DK Tank | Vera the Wild - 50 EP magicka Warden | Sigtric the Axe - 50 EP Dragonknight Crafter | Sigtric the Blade - 50 EP Lost Nightblade | Sigtric the Savage - 50 EP magicka Templar | Vibeka Shadowblade - 50 Ep Stealthy Ganky Nightblade |
Show Me Your Dunmer
[/center]0 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭DRXHarbinger wrote: »Do you think that that knights on the battlefield cried for nerfs when guns entered the picture, or did they adapt.
Actually, in many places, they did. They didn't get what they wanted, though. There's probably a lesson in that somewhere.0 -
Sigtric✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Shad0wfire99 wrote: »My only issue with it is that most stam sorcs use it while under effect of shuffle or hurricane. Basically, they get half invisibility which makes me harder to notice them using their skills and react in split second
wow. then you need to turn the brightness on your monitor or tv up. that giant AOE is huge. yugggggge as trump would say.
Instead of answering only to posts that suits you how about u answer one simple question. Why do stam sorcs run with the absolute minimum possible regen and put everything into dmg and still be able to sustain better than any other class?My only issue with it is that most stam sorcs use it while under effect of shuffle or hurricane. Basically, they get half invisibility which makes me harder to notice them using their skills and react in split second
wow. then you need to turn the brightness on your monitor or tv up. that giant AOE is huge. yugggggge as trump would say.
Instead of answering only to posts that suits you how about u answer one simple question. Why do stam sorcs run with the absolute minimum possible regen and put everything into dmg and still be able to sustain better than any other class?
Probably because PvP is all about burst damage. If you can't burst your opponent down quickly, you're probably dead anyway. This is why almost everyone wears heavy armor, which is an actual problem.
Yes PVP is all about burst dmg and people run in heavy armor to get survivability and just use procs to one shot people. Thats a general problem with cyro.
But the point is that stam sorcs CAN sustain in long fights even with the minimum regen possible. Why is that?
Stamsorc can sure, but why? Answer that question. It's not the 3 to 4 casts worth of magicka pool we have. It has nothing to do with the class itself does it? It's broader problem from an armor set and Stamsorc just happens to be able to benefit from it more than others.
Stam sorcs can use ANY heavy armor set and sustain better than any other class by putting everything into dmg. No need for black rose or anything that helps their sustain. Thats the issue. They are completely ignoring sustain cause they just can. Even fengrush said that who is the person that was asking for stam sorc buffs more than anyone.
Heavy armor is the issue... I mean, that's what you just said right? This is what I've been saying. Fix heavy armor maybe?
My mDK can largely ignore [recovery] sustain because of the magicka returns she gets from the way she is built.
I really don't see why the sustain part is an issue, all classes can dps and sustain (whether it be from recovery or another source of resource returns)it if built correctly. The road they take to get there might be different, but in the end the result is the same.
Stormproof: Vibeke - 50 EP mDragonknight | Savi Dreloth - 50 EP Magsorc | Sadi Dreloth - 50 EP Magblade | Sigtric Stormaxe - 50 EP Stamsorc | Valora Dreloth - 50 EP Magplar | Sigtric the Unbearable 50 EP Stam Warden
Scrub: Chews-on-Beavers - 50 EP DK Tank | Vera the Wild - 50 EP magicka Warden | Sigtric the Axe - 50 EP Dragonknight Crafter | Sigtric the Blade - 50 EP Lost Nightblade | Sigtric the Savage - 50 EP magicka Templar | Vibeka Shadowblade - 50 Ep Stealthy Ganky Nightblade |
Show Me Your Dunmer
[/center]3 -
Dev✭✭✭✭
NB have stealth abilities DK have defensive abilities templars have healing abilities and sorcs excel in mobility genius, not ignoring sustain.
No, sorcs excel at resource regen. Look at the abilities, and see how many of them are based on resource management.- Absorption field: Health recovery
- c-frags: cost reduction
- dark deal/conversion: direct resource swapping
- Passive: Unholy knowledge: resource cost reduction
- Passive: blood magic: health recovery
- Passive: Persistence : increases duration, which means less recasting, which is resource conservation
- Unstable clanfear: Chunk health recovery
- twilight matriarch: used to be a magicka recovery, was nerfed into another health recovery..
- bound armor/armaments: max stat increase
- empowered ward: magicka recovery
- Passive: rebate: Magicka recovery for when a pet leaves
- Passive: power stone: reduced ult cost
- Passive: daedric protection: increased health/stamina recovery
- Passive: expert summoner: increased health
- Overload: this is the best ultimate for ultimate point conservation: you only use 64 ult per light attack. (basically turns ultimate into a third 'main stat'
- endless fury: recovers magicka
- Power/Crit surge: Health recovery
- Passive: capacitor: increased magicka recovery
Now off the top of my head, there is only one set of abilities that prevents moving, the templar ultimate Rite of passage & its morphs. So considering that there is effectively very few if even more then the one ability that will 'lock' you in place, how would 'Mobility' be the best trait?
Do you mean streak, which was already nerfed into an exponential cost increases? If sorcs were 'supposed' to be mobile, the cost increase would seem counter-productive.
Sorcs excel at resource management and mobility isnt even a thing in this game. instead of putting the recovery in gear, they spend the skill points and slots needed. Also for what it is worth, if they added a witch mother's brew equivalent for stam, i would use that. Just because we have a lot of resource management, doesn't mean that we cannot run out especially when we have to carry PVPers in pledges/trials...
Perhaps if people actually knew what a sorc's main strengths were, there wouldn't be such confusion.0 -
Dev✭✭✭✭Do you actually believe the bs you are spreading around here?
yes, the truth and facts have that impact. So sorry if you thought otherwise, it will be ok.
I would love to see it proved though: all it takes to really see how the divide would play out is to make a PVE cyrodil. You know that one thing that really scares all the PVP players:What will they do when there are no PVE players to pick on.
The answer is easy enough, the PVP players will quit and the rest wont notice.1 -
the_man_of_steal✭✭✭You can bash the Dark Deal Animation.... just pay attention. It is not a fast animation at all... Look at a stam sorc's feet not his hands. The black bars appear when the sorc presses dark deal.. his hands start to wave a second after.Edited by the_man_of_steal on December 21, 2016 9:42PM0
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Sigtric✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭the_man_of_steal wrote: »You can bash the Dark Deal Animation.... just pay attention.
paying attention involves effort. good luck :P
Stormproof: Vibeke - 50 EP mDragonknight | Savi Dreloth - 50 EP Magsorc | Sadi Dreloth - 50 EP Magblade | Sigtric Stormaxe - 50 EP Stamsorc | Valora Dreloth - 50 EP Magplar | Sigtric the Unbearable 50 EP Stam Warden
Scrub: Chews-on-Beavers - 50 EP DK Tank | Vera the Wild - 50 EP magicka Warden | Sigtric the Axe - 50 EP Dragonknight Crafter | Sigtric the Blade - 50 EP Lost Nightblade | Sigtric the Savage - 50 EP magicka Templar | Vibeka Shadowblade - 50 Ep Stealthy Ganky Nightblade |
Show Me Your Dunmer
[/center]1 -
TequilaFire✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Do you actually believe the bs you are spreading around here?
yes, the truth and facts have that impact. So sorry if you thought otherwise, it will be ok.
I would love to see it proved though: all it takes to really see how the divide would play out is to make a PVE cyrodil. You know that one thing that really scares all the PVP players:What will they do when there are no PVE players to pick on.
The answer is easy enough, the PVP players will quit and the rest wont notice.
With due respect you are so wrong. I can't even remember the last time that me or anyone in my PvP guild said let's go hunting PvE players at quest hubs. Heck we usually aren't anywhere near the questing areas as that is not where the action is.
The only change to that is when they made three towns in Cyro that used to be hubs capturable.
Edited by TequilaFire on December 21, 2016 9:42PM2 -
Sigtric✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭TequilaFire wrote: »Do you actually believe the bs you are spreading around here?
yes, the truth and facts have that impact. So sorry if you thought otherwise, it will be ok.
I would love to see it proved though: all it takes to really see how the divide would play out is to make a PVE cyrodil. You know that one thing that really scares all the PVP players:What will they do when there are no PVE players to pick on.
The answer is easy enough, the PVP players will quit and the rest wont notice.
With due respect you are so wrong. I can't even remember the last time that me or anyone in my PvP guild said let's go hunting PvE players at quest hubs. Heck we usually aren't anywhere near the questing areas as that is not where the action is.
The only change to that is when they made three towns in Cyro that used to be hubs capturable.
The FACT is that doesn't suit their argument so they choose not to believe it.
Stormproof: Vibeke - 50 EP mDragonknight | Savi Dreloth - 50 EP Magsorc | Sadi Dreloth - 50 EP Magblade | Sigtric Stormaxe - 50 EP Stamsorc | Valora Dreloth - 50 EP Magplar | Sigtric the Unbearable 50 EP Stam Warden
Scrub: Chews-on-Beavers - 50 EP DK Tank | Vera the Wild - 50 EP magicka Warden | Sigtric the Axe - 50 EP Dragonknight Crafter | Sigtric the Blade - 50 EP Lost Nightblade | Sigtric the Savage - 50 EP magicka Templar | Vibeka Shadowblade - 50 Ep Stealthy Ganky Nightblade |
Show Me Your Dunmer
[/center]0 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
NB have stealth abilities DK have defensive abilities templars have healing abilities and sorcs excel in mobility genius, not ignoring sustain.
No, sorcs excel at resource regen. Look at the abilities, and see how many of them are based on resource management.- Absorption field: Health recovery
- c-frags: cost reduction
- dark deal/conversion: direct resource swapping
- Passive: Unholy knowledge: resource cost reduction
- Passive: blood magic: health recovery
- Passive: Persistence : increases duration, which means less recasting, which is resource conservation
- Unstable clanfear: Chunk health recovery
- twilight matriarch: used to be a magicka recovery, was nerfed into another health recovery..
- bound armor/armaments: max stat increase
- empowered ward: magicka recovery
- Passive: rebate: Magicka recovery for when a pet leaves
- Passive: power stone: reduced ult cost
- Passive: daedric protection: increased health/stamina recovery
- Passive: expert summoner: increased health
- Overload: this is the best ultimate for ultimate point conservation: you only use 64 ult per light attack. (basically turns ultimate into a third 'main stat'
- endless fury: recovers magicka
- Power/Crit surge: Health recovery
- Passive: capacitor: increased magicka recovery
Now off the top of my head, there is only one set of abilities that prevents moving, the templar ultimate Rite of passage & its morphs. So considering that there is effectively very few if even more then the one ability that will 'lock' you in place, how would 'Mobility' be the best trait?
Do you mean streak, which was already nerfed into an exponential cost increases? If sorcs were 'supposed' to be mobile, the cost increase would seem counter-productive.
Sorcs excel at resource management and mobility isnt even a thing in this game. instead of putting the recovery in gear, they spend the skill points and slots needed. Also for what it is worth, if they added a witch mother's brew equivalent for stam, i would use that. Just because we have a lot of resource management, doesn't mean that we cannot run out especially when we have to carry PVPers in pledges/trials...
Perhaps if people actually knew what a sorc's main strengths were, there wouldn't be such confusion.
Lmao. Dude i told you. You do not do any PVP. You have no idea about what u are talking about. Everything u just said are just abilities and passives that help the class sustain. Newsflash genius every other class has abilities and passives that help sustain. Do you want me to actually start listing them? Every class has something unique. NB has cloak and shadow image that help with stealth, DK has scales talons etc that help holding their ground, templars have purges and heals. Sorc is the only class with minor expedition and yes they have streak. Just because it has been nerfed it doesnt mean that the design of the skill changed. If you actually step foot even for 3 seconds into cyro u would actually see that every sorc mag or stam are using that skill. They excel in mobility thats not even debatable.
Like i said stop spreading ur bs to avoid urself further embarrassment cause you clearly have no idea about what u are talking about.
Oh and i find cute ur last statement considering how many times i carried people in pledges and trials that never PVP. Those people are not called PVPers or PVEers. They are called players who have no idea about how the game works. A good PVP player who can constantly adapt to its opponent (cause u know its not always the same) im prety sure will be able to maintain a simple rotation in PVE and just follow some mechanics.1 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Do you actually believe the bs you are spreading around here?
yes, the truth and facts have that impact. So sorry if you thought otherwise, it will be ok.
I would love to see it proved though: all it takes to really see how the divide would play out is to make a PVE cyrodil. You know that one thing that really scares all the PVP players:What will they do when there are no PVE players to pick on.
The answer is easy enough, the PVP players will quit and the rest wont notice.
Which would lead to the parallel problem that PvE content in Cyrodiil isn't that compelling. The delves are pretty cool, but the quests include literal "kill ten goblins," quests.0 -
Sigtric✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
NB have stealth abilities DK have defensive abilities templars have healing abilities and sorcs excel in mobility genius, not ignoring sustain.
No, sorcs excel at resource regen. Look at the abilities, and see how many of them are based on resource management.- Absorption field: Health recovery
- c-frags: cost reduction
- dark deal/conversion: direct resource swapping
- Passive: Unholy knowledge: resource cost reduction
- Passive: blood magic: health recovery
- Passive: Persistence : increases duration, which means less recasting, which is resource conservation
- Unstable clanfear: Chunk health recovery
- twilight matriarch: used to be a magicka recovery, was nerfed into another health recovery..
- bound armor/armaments: max stat increase
- empowered ward: magicka recovery
- Passive: rebate: Magicka recovery for when a pet leaves
- Passive: power stone: reduced ult cost
- Passive: daedric protection: increased health/stamina recovery
- Passive: expert summoner: increased health
- Overload: this is the best ultimate for ultimate point conservation: you only use 64 ult per light attack. (basically turns ultimate into a third 'main stat'
- endless fury: recovers magicka
- Power/Crit surge: Health recovery
- Passive: capacitor: increased magicka recovery
Now off the top of my head, there is only one set of abilities that prevents moving, the templar ultimate Rite of passage & its morphs. So considering that there is effectively very few if even more then the one ability that will 'lock' you in place, how would 'Mobility' be the best trait?
Do you mean streak, which was already nerfed into an exponential cost increases? If sorcs were 'supposed' to be mobile, the cost increase would seem counter-productive.
Sorcs excel at resource management and mobility isnt even a thing in this game. instead of putting the recovery in gear, they spend the skill points and slots needed. Also for what it is worth, if they added a witch mother's brew equivalent for stam, i would use that. Just because we have a lot of resource management, doesn't mean that we cannot run out especially when we have to carry PVPers in pledges/trials...
Perhaps if people actually knew what a sorc's main strengths were, there wouldn't be such confusion.
Lmao. Dude i told you. You do not do any PVP. You have no idea about what u are talking about. Everything u just said are just abilities and passives that help the class sustain. Newsflash genius every other class has abilities and passives that help sustain. Do you want me to actually start listing them? Every class has something unique. NB has cloak and shadow image that help with stealth, DK has scales talons etc that help holding their ground, templars have purges and heals. Sorc is the only class with minor expedition and yes they have streak. Just because it has been nerfed it doesnt mean that the design of the skill changed. If you actually step foot even for 3 seconds into cyro u would actually see that every sorc mag or stam are using that skill. They excel in mobility thats not even debatable.
Like i said stop spreading ur bs to avoid urself further embarrassment cause you clearly have no idea about what u are talking about.
Oh and i find cute ur last statement considering how many times i carried people in pledges and trials that never PVP. Those people are not called PVPers or PVEers. They are called players who have no idea about how the game works. A good PVP player who can constantly adapt to its opponent (cause u know its not always the same) im prety sure will be able to maintain a simple rotation in PVE and just follow some mechanics.
lol hey @pieratsos you and I are agreeing on something here.
Stormproof: Vibeke - 50 EP mDragonknight | Savi Dreloth - 50 EP Magsorc | Sadi Dreloth - 50 EP Magblade | Sigtric Stormaxe - 50 EP Stamsorc | Valora Dreloth - 50 EP Magplar | Sigtric the Unbearable 50 EP Stam Warden
Scrub: Chews-on-Beavers - 50 EP DK Tank | Vera the Wild - 50 EP magicka Warden | Sigtric the Axe - 50 EP Dragonknight Crafter | Sigtric the Blade - 50 EP Lost Nightblade | Sigtric the Savage - 50 EP magicka Templar | Vibeka Shadowblade - 50 Ep Stealthy Ganky Nightblade |
Show Me Your Dunmer
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pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Shad0wfire99 wrote: »My only issue with it is that most stam sorcs use it while under effect of shuffle or hurricane. Basically, they get half invisibility which makes me harder to notice them using their skills and react in split second
wow. then you need to turn the brightness on your monitor or tv up. that giant AOE is huge. yugggggge as trump would say.
Instead of answering only to posts that suits you how about u answer one simple question. Why do stam sorcs run with the absolute minimum possible regen and put everything into dmg and still be able to sustain better than any other class?My only issue with it is that most stam sorcs use it while under effect of shuffle or hurricane. Basically, they get half invisibility which makes me harder to notice them using their skills and react in split second
wow. then you need to turn the brightness on your monitor or tv up. that giant AOE is huge. yugggggge as trump would say.
Instead of answering only to posts that suits you how about u answer one simple question. Why do stam sorcs run with the absolute minimum possible regen and put everything into dmg and still be able to sustain better than any other class?
Probably because PvP is all about burst damage. If you can't burst your opponent down quickly, you're probably dead anyway. This is why almost everyone wears heavy armor, which is an actual problem.
Yes PVP is all about burst dmg and people run in heavy armor to get survivability and just use procs to one shot people. Thats a general problem with cyro.
But the point is that stam sorcs CAN sustain in long fights even with the minimum regen possible. Why is that?
Stamsorc can sure, but why? Answer that question. It's not the 3 to 4 casts worth of magicka pool we have. It has nothing to do with the class itself does it? It's broader problem from an armor set and Stamsorc just happens to be able to benefit from it more than others.
Stam sorcs can use ANY heavy armor set and sustain better than any other class by putting everything into dmg. No need for black rose or anything that helps their sustain. Thats the issue. They are completely ignoring sustain cause they just can. Even fengrush said that who is the person that was asking for stam sorc buffs more than anyone.
Heavy armor is the issue... I mean, that's what you just said right? This is what I've been saying. Fix heavy armor maybe?
My mDK can largely ignore [recovery] sustain because of the magicka returns she gets from the way she is built.
I really don't see why the sustain part is an issue, all classes can dps and sustain (whether it be from recovery or another source of resource returns)it if built correctly. The road they take to get there might be different, but in the end the result is the same.
Thats the issue. Thats what im trying to say. They dont build with sustain in mind. They dont need black rose. They dont need regen or cost reduction or serpent mundus. They completely ignore sustain. They put EVERYTHING into dmg and they are good to go. And its not just an issue with heavy armor cause if it was then every other class would be able to do it the same way but they cant. Other classes may need to disengage or run black rose to get more sustain. Sorcs dont need to do that.Edited by pieratsos on December 21, 2016 10:11PM0 -
Sigtric✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Shad0wfire99 wrote: »My only issue with it is that most stam sorcs use it while under effect of shuffle or hurricane. Basically, they get half invisibility which makes me harder to notice them using their skills and react in split second
wow. then you need to turn the brightness on your monitor or tv up. that giant AOE is huge. yugggggge as trump would say.
Instead of answering only to posts that suits you how about u answer one simple question. Why do stam sorcs run with the absolute minimum possible regen and put everything into dmg and still be able to sustain better than any other class?My only issue with it is that most stam sorcs use it while under effect of shuffle or hurricane. Basically, they get half invisibility which makes me harder to notice them using their skills and react in split second
wow. then you need to turn the brightness on your monitor or tv up. that giant AOE is huge. yugggggge as trump would say.
Instead of answering only to posts that suits you how about u answer one simple question. Why do stam sorcs run with the absolute minimum possible regen and put everything into dmg and still be able to sustain better than any other class?
Probably because PvP is all about burst damage. If you can't burst your opponent down quickly, you're probably dead anyway. This is why almost everyone wears heavy armor, which is an actual problem.
Yes PVP is all about burst dmg and people run in heavy armor to get survivability and just use procs to one shot people. Thats a general problem with cyro.
But the point is that stam sorcs CAN sustain in long fights even with the minimum regen possible. Why is that?
Stamsorc can sure, but why? Answer that question. It's not the 3 to 4 casts worth of magicka pool we have. It has nothing to do with the class itself does it? It's broader problem from an armor set and Stamsorc just happens to be able to benefit from it more than others.
Stam sorcs can use ANY heavy armor set and sustain better than any other class by putting everything into dmg. No need for black rose or anything that helps their sustain. Thats the issue. They are completely ignoring sustain cause they just can. Even fengrush said that who is the person that was asking for stam sorc buffs more than anyone.
Heavy armor is the issue... I mean, that's what you just said right? This is what I've been saying. Fix heavy armor maybe?
My mDK can largely ignore [recovery] sustain because of the magicka returns she gets from the way she is built.
I really don't see why the sustain part is an issue, all classes can dps and sustain (whether it be from recovery or another source of resource returns)it if built correctly. The road they take to get there might be different, but in the end the result is the same.
Thats the issue. Thats what im trying to say. They dont build with sustain in mind. They dont need black rose. They dont need regen or cost reduction or serpent mundus. They completely ignore sustain. They put EVERYTHING into dmg and they are good to go. And its not just an issue with heavy armor cause if it was then every other class would be able to do it the same way but they cant. Other classes may need to disengage or run black rose to get more sustain. Sorcs dont need to do that.
My mDK relies on people hitting her or being nearby for sustain, so I don't completely agree with the disengage on that point, and I also will rarely hit DD in pvp combat with out disengaging to en extent anywayEdited by Sigtric on December 21, 2016 10:17PM
Stormproof: Vibeke - 50 EP mDragonknight | Savi Dreloth - 50 EP Magsorc | Sadi Dreloth - 50 EP Magblade | Sigtric Stormaxe - 50 EP Stamsorc | Valora Dreloth - 50 EP Magplar | Sigtric the Unbearable 50 EP Stam Warden
Scrub: Chews-on-Beavers - 50 EP DK Tank | Vera the Wild - 50 EP magicka Warden | Sigtric the Axe - 50 EP Dragonknight Crafter | Sigtric the Blade - 50 EP Lost Nightblade | Sigtric the Savage - 50 EP magicka Templar | Vibeka Shadowblade - 50 Ep Stealthy Ganky Nightblade |
Show Me Your Dunmer
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pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Shad0wfire99 wrote: »My only issue with it is that most stam sorcs use it while under effect of shuffle or hurricane. Basically, they get half invisibility which makes me harder to notice them using their skills and react in split second
wow. then you need to turn the brightness on your monitor or tv up. that giant AOE is huge. yugggggge as trump would say.
Instead of answering only to posts that suits you how about u answer one simple question. Why do stam sorcs run with the absolute minimum possible regen and put everything into dmg and still be able to sustain better than any other class?My only issue with it is that most stam sorcs use it while under effect of shuffle or hurricane. Basically, they get half invisibility which makes me harder to notice them using their skills and react in split second
wow. then you need to turn the brightness on your monitor or tv up. that giant AOE is huge. yugggggge as trump would say.
Instead of answering only to posts that suits you how about u answer one simple question. Why do stam sorcs run with the absolute minimum possible regen and put everything into dmg and still be able to sustain better than any other class?
Probably because PvP is all about burst damage. If you can't burst your opponent down quickly, you're probably dead anyway. This is why almost everyone wears heavy armor, which is an actual problem.
Yes PVP is all about burst dmg and people run in heavy armor to get survivability and just use procs to one shot people. Thats a general problem with cyro.
But the point is that stam sorcs CAN sustain in long fights even with the minimum regen possible. Why is that?
Stamsorc can sure, but why? Answer that question. It's not the 3 to 4 casts worth of magicka pool we have. It has nothing to do with the class itself does it? It's broader problem from an armor set and Stamsorc just happens to be able to benefit from it more than others.
Stam sorcs can use ANY heavy armor set and sustain better than any other class by putting everything into dmg. No need for black rose or anything that helps their sustain. Thats the issue. They are completely ignoring sustain cause they just can. Even fengrush said that who is the person that was asking for stam sorc buffs more than anyone.
Heavy armor is the issue... I mean, that's what you just said right? This is what I've been saying. Fix heavy armor maybe?
My mDK can largely ignore [recovery] sustain because of the magicka returns she gets from the way she is built.
I really don't see why the sustain part is an issue, all classes can dps and sustain (whether it be from recovery or another source of resource returns)it if built correctly. The road they take to get there might be different, but in the end the result is the same.
Thats the issue. Thats what im trying to say. They dont build with sustain in mind. They dont need black rose. They dont need regen or cost reduction or serpent mundus. They completely ignore sustain. They put EVERYTHING into dmg and they are good to go. And its not just an issue with heavy armor cause if it was then every other class would be able to do it the same way but they cant. Other classes may need to disengage or run black rose to get more sustain. Sorcs dont need to do that.
My mDK relies on people hitting her or being nearby for sustain, so I don't completely agree with the disengage on that point, and I also will rarely hit DD in pvp combat with out disengaging to en extent anyway
But mDKs are running a sustain set whether that is desert rose or lich or seducer or anything else. So they build for sustain. I cant possibly see how a mDK with 600 regen can run into a fight and sustain forever with 5 rattlecage 5 burning spellweave thief and full spell dmg on jewellery. Actually mDK is the perfect example of how class balance should be. mDK are balancing sustain dmg and survivability and thats the main reason they are struggling in the first place. No other class has to do that.0 -
socivL✭✭✭if you dont have a stam sorc - are you really enjoying your life on planet earth?2 templars - 1 cup1 -
Lord_Eomer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I used it a lot on my stam sorcerer tank and uts perfectly fine in PVE!
If it got nerf then Stam Sorcerer tanks will die too!Edited by Lord_Eomer on December 21, 2016 10:33PM0 -
Sigtric✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Shad0wfire99 wrote: »My only issue with it is that most stam sorcs use it while under effect of shuffle or hurricane. Basically, they get half invisibility which makes me harder to notice them using their skills and react in split second
wow. then you need to turn the brightness on your monitor or tv up. that giant AOE is huge. yugggggge as trump would say.
Instead of answering only to posts that suits you how about u answer one simple question. Why do stam sorcs run with the absolute minimum possible regen and put everything into dmg and still be able to sustain better than any other class?My only issue with it is that most stam sorcs use it while under effect of shuffle or hurricane. Basically, they get half invisibility which makes me harder to notice them using their skills and react in split second
wow. then you need to turn the brightness on your monitor or tv up. that giant AOE is huge. yugggggge as trump would say.
Instead of answering only to posts that suits you how about u answer one simple question. Why do stam sorcs run with the absolute minimum possible regen and put everything into dmg and still be able to sustain better than any other class?
Probably because PvP is all about burst damage. If you can't burst your opponent down quickly, you're probably dead anyway. This is why almost everyone wears heavy armor, which is an actual problem.
Yes PVP is all about burst dmg and people run in heavy armor to get survivability and just use procs to one shot people. Thats a general problem with cyro.
But the point is that stam sorcs CAN sustain in long fights even with the minimum regen possible. Why is that?
Stamsorc can sure, but why? Answer that question. It's not the 3 to 4 casts worth of magicka pool we have. It has nothing to do with the class itself does it? It's broader problem from an armor set and Stamsorc just happens to be able to benefit from it more than others.
Stam sorcs can use ANY heavy armor set and sustain better than any other class by putting everything into dmg. No need for black rose or anything that helps their sustain. Thats the issue. They are completely ignoring sustain cause they just can. Even fengrush said that who is the person that was asking for stam sorc buffs more than anyone.
Heavy armor is the issue... I mean, that's what you just said right? This is what I've been saying. Fix heavy armor maybe?
My mDK can largely ignore [recovery] sustain because of the magicka returns she gets from the way she is built.
I really don't see why the sustain part is an issue, all classes can dps and sustain (whether it be from recovery or another source of resource returns)it if built correctly. The road they take to get there might be different, but in the end the result is the same.
Thats the issue. Thats what im trying to say. They dont build with sustain in mind. They dont need black rose. They dont need regen or cost reduction or serpent mundus. They completely ignore sustain. They put EVERYTHING into dmg and they are good to go. And its not just an issue with heavy armor cause if it was then every other class would be able to do it the same way but they cant. Other classes may need to disengage or run black rose to get more sustain. Sorcs dont need to do that.
My mDK relies on people hitting her or being nearby for sustain, so I don't completely agree with the disengage on that point, and I also will rarely hit DD in pvp combat with out disengaging to en extent anyway
But mDKs are running a sustain set whether that is desert rose or lich or seducer or anything else. So they build for sustain. I cant possibly see how a mDK with 600 regen can run into a fight and sustain forever with 5 rattlecage 5 burning spellweave thief and full spell dmg on jewellery. Actually mDK is the perfect example of how class balance should be. mDK are balancing sustain dmg and survivability and thats the main reason they are struggling in the first place. No other class has to do that.
I am in agreement re mDK but to me it's just a glaring example of the armor being the issue and not the skill.
As a medium wearing Stam sorc I can't sustain on dark deal. I have to move, I have to use magic to keep surge up, conserve to keep streak available when I need it.
And quite honestly especially since I am a moderate-good pvp player and not a great one, going against the meta, taking time to use DD gets me killed if I don't take the time to move away. If someone can't kill me before I get off two of them, standing the to toe, it wasn't dark deal that caused them to fail.
Regardless of my higher than normal (it seems) sustain DD isn't enough to be my panic skill. I use vigor for that, and I break off to DD for Stam when I can. I favor pots.
I think if heavy armor wasn't so strong in general this would be a non issue. Which is why I think asking for it to be nerfed is the wrong course of action, addressing heavy armor is.
Stormproof: Vibeke - 50 EP mDragonknight | Savi Dreloth - 50 EP Magsorc | Sadi Dreloth - 50 EP Magblade | Sigtric Stormaxe - 50 EP Stamsorc | Valora Dreloth - 50 EP Magplar | Sigtric the Unbearable 50 EP Stam Warden
Scrub: Chews-on-Beavers - 50 EP DK Tank | Vera the Wild - 50 EP magicka Warden | Sigtric the Axe - 50 EP Dragonknight Crafter | Sigtric the Blade - 50 EP Lost Nightblade | Sigtric the Savage - 50 EP magicka Templar | Vibeka Shadowblade - 50 Ep Stealthy Ganky Nightblade |
Show Me Your Dunmer
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DRXHarbinger✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »That it is a channel that somehow does not snare the user is beyond ridiculous.
But you can do more than 5k dps to anyone in pvp...and they can't attack whilst doing it. I don't see the issue with it.starkerealm wrote: »DRXHarbinger wrote: »Do you think that that knights on the battlefield cried for nerfs when guns entered the picture, or did they adapt.
Actually, in many places, they did. They didn't get what they wanted, though. There's probably a lesson in that somewhere.
I didn't write that????PC Master Race
1001CP
8 Flawless Toons, all Classes.
Master Angler
Dro-M'artha Destroyer (at last)
Tamriel Hero
Grand Overlord
Every Skyshard
Down With BOP!0 -
Wollust✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Do you actually believe the bs you are spreading around here?
yes, the truth and facts have that impact. So sorry if you thought otherwise, it will be ok.
I would love to see it proved though: all it takes to really see how the divide would play out is to make a PVE cyrodil. You know that one thing that really scares all the PVP players:What will they do when there are no PVE players to pick on.
The answer is easy enough, the PVP players will quit and the rest wont notice.
Oh boy you're so delusional it's not even funny.Susano'o
Zerg Squad3
This discussion has been closed.