Again can we actually balance dark deal already.

leepalmer95

That skill is just so stupid. The skill literally makes all stam sorc ignore the sustain aspect of the game.

Because 5k heal and 5k stamina per cast is so 'balanced'.

It's the only channel type skill in the game they doesn't have the slow when casting it.

Reduce the stamina return by 25% and the heal by half. 5k heal per cast? Nah, the stupid amount of stamina it returns is already strong enough. If it has to have a heal make it small and a secondary effect and not a capable main heal for sorc's they have surge, vigor and rally available anyway.

Add the snare when cast like every other channel has in the game so people actually have a chance to interrupt it despite the fact it casts too annoyingly quick oh and they can shuffle dodge your interrupt. Because allowing RNG to stop the rewarding of good game play mechanics is such good game design. People actually waste stam to bash things only for them to be dodged, the skill not interrupted and the basher charged stamina.

If a dark deal is bashed then the magicka should be taken away and not returned. Seem stupid that someone bashes them and the sorc can just break free and go right back too spamming dark deal.


Maybe with these changes stam sorc will finally remember that building for sustain is an actual thing in the game and not just throw on 5 heavy and infinitely sustain with the best sustain the game. Because overbuff dark deal got is just stupid.

Imagine if a mag dk could throw on 5 heavy and then spec into 100% full dmg, the rage of people would be amazing it would be nerfed in the week. Not sure why stam sorc hasn't been nerfed yet likely because all the bad meta kids who google 'Most OP build in X patch' every time because they need all the broken advantages they can get to try and be relevant in pvp all rerolled one and haven't come off it since and forum warrior defend it.



Honestly some of the balancing changes in this game, do they even test them?

Metafae

Nah. Don't nerf this, buff that.

susmitds

Metafae wrote: »

Nah. Don't nerf this, buff that.

No, OP things need nerfs. Power creep too much.

leepalmer95

susmitds wrote: »

Metafae wrote: »

Nah. Don't nerf this, buff that.

No, OP things need nerfs. Power creep too much.

Exactly.

Browiseth

wowser stam sorc has a unique perk

how dare they

I'd be okay with seeing the health restore get halved though, reduced movement speed ehh
maybe a little

leepalmer95

Browiseth wrote: »

wowser stam sorc has a unique perk

how dare they

I'd be okay with seeing the health restore get halved though, reduced movement speed ehh
maybe a little

Big wow it's 'unique' they also have hurricane and crit surge but are we ignoring them in this situation to prove your 'point'?

Still doesn't change the fact it's over performing. Also every other channel, jabs/sweeps/snipe/flare etc... they all have the channel movement speed slow apart from dark deal.

Mojmir

It should be in mages skill line and both morphs. It should also replace symmetry.

MaxwellC

I think it's funny how sorcs have better sustain than the class who is built around sustain and 'standing their ground'... guess DKs will never have the best sustain and well we already lost our standing ground thanks to ulti regen nerf.

GreenSoup2HoT

At least make it so when Dark Deal is interrupted the cost of attempting to cast Dark Deal is used. Its stupid how i can interrupt a stam sorc consistently and they just wait till they have immunity to spam cast it.


This is why Black Rose and Constitution in general are an issue. This is why Red Guards are an issue. You don't need to build for sustain to have immense sustain. You just stack damage upon damage with maximum stamina and be rewarded sustain. At least on my Imperial in Medium i have to sacrifice for regen using regen drinks.

This game is far from balanced. If you play a stamina redguard your just playing easy mode at this point. Bonus points if you use Black Rose on a DK or Sorc.

I really hope the meta completely changes next patch. Im tired of this whole more damage=better heals game we are playing. How about give better heals to those with more sustain. Give those max stat users some drawbacks.

Bobby_V_Rockit

Gtfo with that nerf talk, it only casts 3-4 times before magicka is drained anyway

noxpox

Mojmir wrote: »

It should be in mages skill line and both morphs. It should also replace symmetry.

Yea, don't fix it, just give it to everyone. You Sir should apply for a job @ ZOS.

Acrolas

The skill is only as good as your magicka pool. Same with a magicka sorç, only as good as the stamina pool.

Necropotence makes it more powerful for stam, but then you have a stam user running a 100% magicka set which has its own drawbacks. And you have to sustain the pet.

This is the problem with nerf threads. We don't need forum meltdowns every single time somebody discovers a different tank/sustain build in PVP. Tank/sustain builds in PVP are killing, what? Tens of people every year?

Overpowered is when you're dying every single time to something no matter what. Not stalemates.

AzraelKrieg

Did someone call for a Nerf?

Mojmir

noxpox wrote: »

Mojmir wrote: »

It should be in mages skill line and both morphs. It should also replace symmetry.

Yea, don't fix it, just give it to everyone. You Sir should apply for a job @ ZOS.

So it's ok for only one class to have the best resource management with low penalty? I guess I found the stamsorc.

Calboy

I'm not stam sorc and IMO it's fine. If anything add a snare while being channelled.

starkerealm

Calboy wrote: »

I'm not stam sorc and IMO it's fine. If anything add a snare while being channelled.

They took off the snare because it made the ability unusable. As is, you can't block, attack, or sprint while channeling. It's useful, but still pretty limited.

leepalmer95

Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »

Gtfo with that nerf talk, it only casts 3-4 times before magicka is drained anyway

Which is 20k stamina where you can tri pot and gain another 20k stamina, by the time the first 20k stamina is gone your already full magicka again anyway.

Acrolas wrote: »

The skill is only as good as your magicka pool. Same with a magicka sorç, only as good as the stamina pool.

Necropotence makes it more powerful for stam, but then you have a stam user running a 100% magicka set which has its own drawbacks. And you have to sustain the pet.

This is the problem with nerf threads. We don't need forum meltdowns every single time somebody discovers a different tank/sustain build in PVP. Tank/sustain builds in PVP are killing, what? Tens of people every year?

Overpowered is when you're dying every single time to something no matter what. Not stalemates.

Why considering heavy gives mag regen it' things like tri pots means it's very easy to cast it 4 times for 20k stamina and have full magicka before you use that 20k.

I have no idea why your bringing in necropotence for a stam sorc. Like what are you even on about now.

All a stam sorc has to do to have infinite sustain is put on ANY 5x heavy set. They don't even need to use broken black rose.

Tank/sustain builds are killing 10 people every year? Im sorry what? Have you even pvp'ed for the last 5 months? Tank builds do the same or even more damage than most glass cannon builds.

Overpowered is when it's overpeforming as a skill. As i have 1 of each magicka and stamina of each class i can 100% say that it's over performing as a sustain skill. 1 Dark deal is the same stamina as 5x light attacks of a nb, it's the same as 2-3 casts of igneous for helpings hands...

This is the problem when white knight forum warriors roll into thread to defend things they use without a care for balance. They don't even get facts right and just start posting useless stuff. Like really? Necro and a pet on a stam sorc? Have you even played stam sorc?

lucky_Sage

MaxwellCrystal wrote: »

I think it's funny how sorcs have better sustain than the class who is built around sustain and 'standing their ground'... guess DKs will never have the best sustain and well we already lost our standing ground thanks to ulti regen nerf.

what magickdk should have the best sustain in game wow. why would they give sustain to a class built around DoTs and has no movement.

if a magdk didn't need stsuatin like stamsorcs they could have 5k spell damage lol

EldritchPenguin

Acrolas wrote: »

This is the problem with nerf threads. We don't need forum meltdowns every single time somebody discovers a different tank/sustain build in PVP. Tank/sustain builds in PVP are killing, what? Tens of people every year?

The problem with this argument is that people are using stuff like Black Rose, Viper, and Tremorscale together to make a build that's very durable, has fantastic sustain, and can still hit like a truck loaded with anvils. Dark Deal makes this a whole lot worse, because when they run low on stamina for perma-blocking, they can just cast Dark Deal and get right back to it. Bonus points if they're a Redguard.

The problem with tank/sustain builds as they stand is that all they need to do to get phenomenal sustain is run Black Rose (which provides a substantial amount of damage on its own) and Dark Deal (which only needs one slot on one bar and provides a hefty heal on top of its stamina return), neither of which is a big price to pay for the massive payoff they grant in return.

starkerealm

...or you could just bash them while they're channeling... or use Venom Arrow. Just a thought.

Aletheion

Calboy wrote: »

I'm not stam sorc and IMO it's fine. If anything add a snare while being channelled.

It used to. The snare was removed quite some time ago because the complaint was being destroyed while casting it.

-Aletheion

GreenSoup2HoT

starkerealm wrote: »

...or you could just bash them while they're channeling... or use Venom Arrow. Just a thought.

doesn't change the fact that no magicka is wasted while being interrupted. all your granted is a free cc break with immunity to spam dark deal some more. the only time that would work is if that sorc does not have enough stam to cc break but thats easy to avoid with the way dark deal works. just stay above 50% stam and your good to go.

that is one of the arguments this thread is having right now. there is no draw backs to spam cast dark deal. there is no worry that you may get interrupted and waste your magicka.

EldritchPenguin

starkerealm wrote: »

...or you could just bash them while they're channeling... or use Venom Arrow. Just a thought.

Which, as was said above, refunds the Magicka that they spent casting Dark Deal, allowing them to wait until the next time they get CC immunity and then spam it.

leepalmer95

starkerealm wrote: »

...or you could just bash them while they're channeling... or use Venom Arrow. Just a thought.

Assuming they don't shuffle dodge the bash. Or your actually next to them to bash in the first place. Or your not a magicka build and can't afford to spam bashes while they break free and continue spamming dark deal.

Or hope your on your bow bar or use a bow and hope your arrow actually hits before the dark deal finishes because it's very fast.

I've spammed crushing at dark dealing sorc's and even then that doesn't interrupt a lot of the time.

starkerealm

leepalmer95 wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

...or you could just bash them while they're channeling... or use Venom Arrow. Just a thought.

Assuming they don't shuffle dodge the bash.

So their soaking the damage to trigger constitution, but then shuffling to avoid the interrupt. Because, that's how random chance works.

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Or your actually next to them to bash in the first place. Or your not a magicka build and can't afford to spam bashes while they break free and continue spamming dark deal.

Okay, let's see if I follow this theory of yours.

You're fighting a sorc in heavy armor. They use dark deal (1), they use shuffle (2), they use bolt escape (3). So that's half their bar.

When hurt they cast Dark Deal, which costs 1/3 of their magicka pool. Then, when you try to interrupt it, because it has a full second casting time... they dodge it. But, they've been taking hits to refill their pools with the Constitution passive. So, they Dark Deal repeatedly, then get bored of you, and bolt escape away, so they can dark deal again. Except, Bolt Escape costs ~1/3 of their magicka pool, then Dark Deal costs the second 1/3. But, they can't do that, because they were spamming dark deal first. And you have absolutely no way to deal with someone at range?

But, it's all for naught because they can regenerate 12% of their magicka once every 4 seconds if they take damage, because of heavy armor. Which they won't, because of shuffle. But, they're doing it anyway, because they prayed to RNGesus this morning.

As I recall, you're a sorc. If that's true, I can think of a couple methods to play complete havoc with them. Negate Magic, Shattering Prison, hell, Rune Cage, which is stupidly cheap as I recall. You have tools to deal with them.

To say nothing of the simplest solution which is just to burn them down faster than they can respond.

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Or hope your on your bow bar or use a bow and hope your arrow actually hits before the dark deal finishes because it's very fast.

I've spammed crushing at dark dealing sorc's and even then that doesn't interrupt a lot of the time.

That's because, near as I can tell, you still haven't picked a focus. You can kill people through direct damage, or you can burn their resources first. If you want to do the latter, then Crushing is not a fantastic way to go. If you're wanting to do the former... it's iffy.

Or hell, maybe they're just, "PC transfers with thousands of CP." That was your old excuse.

In case this detail escaped you, you're not playing against NPCs in Cyrodiil. Those are living people. They've looked at the meta for the game, and adapted. Now, it's your turn. Adapt... or come on to the forums and claim that life is unfair.

acw37162

What you mean like the ability to spam an instant cast, block castable shield and get what 4 or 5% if your max stam back bidding time time till you have enough Ultimate saved up to top yourself off.

Or

You know get extra magic and stamina back on every attack with a chance to earn even more. Or a magic, stam, and health back.

Or

The ability to repent any corpse even pets proc chance resource generator and NPCs for a massive AOE heal and stamina return.

You mean like those, with the OP nerf all of those bring back something we didn't like back than and begged you change. We were wrong please help us

SnubbS

Wait a minute...



If someone dodges my bash -- I still get charged stam for it? I never knew that lmao.

starkerealm

acw37162 wrote: »

You know get extra magic and stamina back on every attack with a chance to earn even more. Or a magic, stam, and health back.

Who runs Leaching on a non-tank... no, wait, on a tank, right.

DRXHarbinger

Lol its a 2.5k heal in pvp....really? You're crying over that. Even dragon blood gives more of a heal. Maybe stop standing around spamming bow attacks hoping it'll work. Keep on them with crushing shock and they'll never get to use it. Stam users should be in thier face anyway and just bash.

Let me guess the real issue is you're scared of hurricane. Maybe nerf that as well while we're at it.

TARAFRAKA

i swear anytime i see op on forum its related to a nerf or theyre protesting some change because it will ruin how they play.
at this point, when i see that name, i grab popcorn.

Brrrofski

As someone who's played stam sorc since IC, I couldn't believe how strong it was when I took it into PvP for the first time since the buffs. Dark deal is too strong. I don't think it needs a huge nerf though. It is bashable after all. Magica sorcs always interrupt it for instance. Just don't ruin it zos.