Miat's PVP Alerts Addon

Enslaved

1. Equip IG
2. Spam shields
3. ???????
4. Profit

Here, I invented a stealth counterplay.

Kutsuu

Derra wrote: »

Kutsuu wrote: »

3. Run around with a shield up, recasting it every 6s. Yeah I know this is a pain but preventing crits on the gank opener stop it dead most of the time. It's even better if you're a sorc with defensive rune, because you will be given time to CC break the stealth opener before they can CC break defensive rune and incap you.

Proper gankers will use a cc immunity potion when attempting to attack a sorc with defensive rune. That skill is absolutely useless against a competent player.

Because this game is overflowing with proper gankers. Don't make me laugh. Too late.

Seriously, at least half or more of my AP income is from people who are attempting to gank but don't know what they are doing. Defensive rune smacks them right in the face.

Kutsuu

Dorrino wrote: »

While i'm still here.

Kutsuu wrote: »

I think the assassin play style which is usually characterized by being a no compromises glass cannon who is very bursty but also very fragile should be a viable build.

I think there's a misnomer here:) Your statement sounds like the build idea is to have high burst with a trade-off in a form of being easy to kill. But 'the scissor's are invisible'. You can't kill something that you can't see. This fact alone turns high burst/ low survivability "assassin" archetype into high burst/high survivability "Im-a-god" archetype.

I personally don't have problems with the first one, but i do find the latter one to be quite detrimental to the game, especially considering its ease to play.

Ok so you can't see them in stealth when neither of you are engaged in combat. This is again pretty standard for assassin classes. As soon as they come out of stealth to attack you, and considering you are somewhere above potato level in order to counter any future attempts to use cloak, this is the situation where they are fragile. Idk about you, but on any of my builds I can drop a 18k HP ganker in 1-2 seconds depending on the combo used.

The average ganker kills one person then dies, respawns and rinse repeats, because it is actually pretty challenging to stay alive after revealing yourself.

Arthg

Kutsuu wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Kutsuu wrote: »

3. Run around with a shield up, recasting it every 6s. Yeah I know this is a pain but preventing crits on the gank opener stop it dead most of the time. It's even better if you're a sorc with defensive rune, because you will be given time to CC break the stealth opener before they can CC break defensive rune and incap you.

Proper gankers will use a cc immunity potion when attempting to attack a sorc with defensive rune. That skill is absolutely useless against a competent player.

Because this game is overflowing with proper gankers. Don't make me laugh. Too late.

Seriously, at least half or more of my AP income is from people who are attempting to gank but don't know what they are doing. Defensive rune smacks them right in the face.

Sounds like a self-defeating argument.
Nobody cares for incompetent gankers.
The issue is counterplaying gankers that know what they're doing - and for instance use an immunity pot against defensive rune.

If no counterplay exists against them, then, yes something is broken (which in my eyes doesn't even remotely justify using the addon).

Derra

Kutsuu wrote: »

The average ganker kills one person then dies, respawns and rinse repeats, because it is actually pretty challenging to stay alive after revealing yourself.

Since when was the average player ever relevant to balancing discussions?

But you can turn this around pretty easily. An average ganker will still ravage other average players. What makes no sense in discussing is an average or bad ganker attempting to murder a good player and failing in the attempt to make a point.

That just exposes you´re on an agenda.

Enslaved

So, because average ganker can kill average player, let's all use cheat addon.

What a great excuse!

What is next, addon that instant heal you when you are hit by a ganker?
Maybe an addon that gives you predator view so you can see anyone in stealth?

Pitiful.

Dorrino

Kutsuu wrote: »

As soon as they come out of stealth to attack you, and considering you are somewhere above potato level in order to counter any future attempts to use cloak, this is the situation where they are fragile. Idk about you, but on any of my builds I can drop a 18k HP ganker in 1-2 seconds depending on the combo used.

There're 3 problems with this:

1. Window of opportunity while they are out of cloak is 3-4 sec at most.
2. 18hp gankers have 1.3+ mag regen and up to 3k stam regen. Their low hp is easily compensated by chaining cloaks with dodges and cloaks again.
3. As you've been telling us the ganker had to oneshot to actually gank. So now you need to kill a high regen chain cloaking target while you're dead:) Which, i think, is quite a challenge.

PS. Some people for some reason keep using the argument 'b-but you can easily kill them if they out of cloak'', as if your glass cannon ganker even fights you when out of stealth:) They don't. If they fail their oneshots or got revealed they won't fight you at all. They run away constantly dodging and cloaking (and purging the mark).

Kutsuu

Arthg wrote: »

Kutsuu wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Kutsuu wrote: »

3. Run around with a shield up, recasting it every 6s. Yeah I know this is a pain but preventing crits on the gank opener stop it dead most of the time. It's even better if you're a sorc with defensive rune, because you will be given time to CC break the stealth opener before they can CC break defensive rune and incap you.

Proper gankers will use a cc immunity potion when attempting to attack a sorc with defensive rune. That skill is absolutely useless against a competent player.

Because this game is overflowing with proper gankers. Don't make me laugh. Too late.

Seriously, at least half or more of my AP income is from people who are attempting to gank but don't know what they are doing. Defensive rune smacks them right in the face.

Sounds like a self-defeating argument.
Nobody cares for incompetent gankers.
The issue is counterplaying gankers that know what they're doing - and for instance use an immunity pot against defensive rune.

If no counterplay exists against them, then, yes something is broken (which in my eyes doesn't even remotely justify using the addon).

Counter play has been discussed ad nauseum in this thread. I use it on my non-ganker builds to farm gankers because they're easy APs. I still get ganked when 2 or more of them hit me with the same opener.

Dorrino wrote: »

Kutsuu wrote: »

As soon as they come out of stealth to attack you, and considering you are somewhere above potato level in order to counter any future attempts to use cloak, this is the situation where they are fragile. Idk about you, but on any of my builds I can drop a 18k HP ganker in 1-2 seconds depending on the combo used.

There're 3 problems with this:

1. Window of opportunity while they are out of cloak is 3-4 sec at most.
2. 18hp gankers have 1.3+ mag regen and up to 3k stam regen. Their low hp is easily compensated by chaining cloaks with dodges and cloaks again.
3. As you've been telling us the ganker had to oneshot to actually gank. So now you need to kill a high regen chain cloaking target while you're dead:) Which, i think, is quite a challenge.

PS. Some people for some reason keep using the argument 'b-but you can easily kill them if they out of cloak'', as if your glass cannon ganker even fights you when out of stealth:) They don't. If they fail their oneshots or got revealed they won't fight you at all. They run away constantly dodging and cloaking (and purging the mark).

Now you're going to tell me there are no counters to cloak, right? No way to stop them from going invisible, or reveal them while invisible? What's with all the skilled nightblades that advocate removing cloak from your bar all together because of the plethora of powerful counters available to everyone? Not that I agree with them, because we still have people like you who choose not to counter it and complain instead.

Again, your scenario where you died to a ganker while you had a shield and radiant magelight up because of a bugged double selene proc is FAR from a common gank scenario. If a ganker is stupid enough to attack you while you have radiant and a shield up, and you have any kind of reasonable reaction time, they SHOULD be toast. But you're saying that you let them cloak up and run away. When you have radiant magelight on your bar! You realizing that you can cast radiant on someone who is not in stealth (within 12m of you) and it will prevent them from stealthing for 6 seconds right?

Dorrino

Kutsuu wrote: »

Now you're going to tell me there are no counters to cloak, right? No way to stop them from going invisible, or reveal them while invisible? What's with all the skilled nightblades that advocate removing cloak from your bar all together because of the plethora of powerful counters available to everyone? Not that I agree with them, because we still have people like you who choose not to counter it and complain instead.

Again, your scenario where you died to a ganker while you had a shield and radiant magelight up because of a bugged double selene proc is FAR from a common gank scenario. If a ganker is stupid enough to attack you while you have radiant and a shield up, and you have any kind of reasonable reaction time, they SHOULD be toast. But you're saying that you let them cloak up and run away. When you have radiant magelight on your bar! You realizing that you can cast radiant on someone who is not in stealth (within 12m of you) and it will prevent them from stealthing for 6 seconds right?

1. You can't spam shields on a stam class.
2. You can't radiant if you're cc-ed.
3. They most likely are faster than you.
4. The whole time you're dead, remember?:)

Kutsuu

Dorrino wrote: »

Kutsuu wrote: »

Now you're going to tell me there are no counters to cloak, right? No way to stop them from going invisible, or reveal them while invisible? What's with all the skilled nightblades that advocate removing cloak from your bar all together because of the plethora of powerful counters available to everyone? Not that I agree with them, because we still have people like you who choose not to counter it and complain instead.

Again, your scenario where you died to a ganker while you had a shield and radiant magelight up because of a bugged double selene proc is FAR from a common gank scenario. If a ganker is stupid enough to attack you while you have radiant and a shield up, and you have any kind of reasonable reaction time, they SHOULD be toast. But you're saying that you let them cloak up and run away. When you have radiant magelight on your bar! You realizing that you can cast radiant on someone who is not in stealth (within 12m of you) and it will prevent them from stealthing for 6 seconds right?

1. You can't spam shields on a stam class.
2. You can't radiant if you're cc-ed.
3. They most likely are faster than you.
4. The whole time you're dead, remember?:)

Oh you're not Derra - You just sound like him, guess it was easy to confuse the two. Stam builds have easier options to stuff gank attempts, I don't even run Radiant magelight on my stamsorc because it's not necessary to avoid getting ganked. ~26k life, keeping a major ward buff up, and a SnB bar to travel on are typically enough for me. YMMV depending on your build and what you are using. If you're running around playing a glass cannon in medium armor with 21k HP and no radiant magelight, yeah gankers are going to eat you alive. As will anyone else with a bursty build.

For your #2 Keep in mind that Radiant Magelight prevents the CC from stealth attacks, and you have ~1/2 a second to prevent the incap CC. Reacting is counter play...

Like I've said in probably half a dozen or more posts in this thread, I do think there needs to be changes to burst damage. It's not cool to die in <1 second. Even considering the fact that you CAN build to avoid ever dying in <1 second to a single player, you shouldn't have to build that way to be successful in PVP. However, you can't just take away all the burst damage without doing something about recovery. It's already at a point where two skilled players fighting will often result in a stalemate or at the very least a drag out 5+ minute fight until someone makes a mistake. Keep reducing burst damage without doing something about recovery/defense, and you just stop fights from ending.

Dorrino

Kutsuu wrote: »

If you're running around playing a glass cannon in medium armor with 21k HP and no radiant magelight, yeah gankers are going to eat you alive. As will anyone else with a bursty build.

21k hp, 2400 crit res, 21k resist. Minor protection. If this constitutes a 'glass cannon' i think we have a problem.

Kutsuu wrote: »

For your #2 Keep in mind that Radiant Magelight prevents the CC from stealth attacks, and you have ~1/2 a second to prevent the incap CC. Reacting is counter play...

If the ganker tries to get in stealth he does not cc you from stealth:) He cc's you out of stealth, thus radiant does nothing.

Kutsuu wrote: »

Like I've said in probably half a dozen or more posts in this thread, I do think there needs to be changes to burst damage. It's not cool to die in <1 second. Even considering the fact that you CAN build to avoid ever dying in <1 second to a single player, you shouldn't have to build that way to be successful in PVP. However, you can't just take away all the burst damage without doing something about recovery. It's already at a point where two skilled players fighting will often result in a stalemate or at the very least a drag out 5+ minute fight until someone makes a mistake. Keep reducing burst damage without doing something about recovery/defense, and you just stop fights from ending.

You can't do anything about this without major revision of the whole combat system. 1v1 is not about skill starting at some level. It's not even about the gear. It's purely about lining up the burst and hope than this time everything connects. Rinse/repeat.

Kutsuu

Dorrino wrote: »

Kutsuu wrote: »

If you're running around playing a glass cannon in medium armor with 21k HP and no radiant magelight, yeah gankers are going to eat you alive. As will anyone else with a bursty build.

21k hp, 2400 crit res, 21k resist. Minor protection. If this constitutes a 'glass cannon' i think we have a problem.

Kutsuu wrote: »

For your #2 Keep in mind that Radiant Magelight prevents the CC from stealth attacks, and you have ~1/2 a second to prevent the incap CC. Reacting is counter play...

If the ganker tries to get in stealth he does not cc you from stealth:) He cc's you out of stealth, thus radiant does nothing.

Kutsuu wrote: »

Like I've said in probably half a dozen or more posts in this thread, I do think there needs to be changes to burst damage. It's not cool to die in <1 second. Even considering the fact that you CAN build to avoid ever dying in <1 second to a single player, you shouldn't have to build that way to be successful in PVP. However, you can't just take away all the burst damage without doing something about recovery. It's already at a point where two skilled players fighting will often result in a stalemate or at the very least a drag out 5+ minute fight until someone makes a mistake. Keep reducing burst damage without doing something about recovery/defense, and you just stop fights from ending.

You can't do anything about this without major revision of the whole combat system. 1v1 is not about skill starting at some level. It's not even about the gear. It's purely about lining up the burst and hope than this time everything connects. Rinse/repeat.

I am not sure if you're trying to troll or what, but let me try to be more clear. Using Radiant Magelight on a player even if they aren't currently in stealth puts a 6 second debuff on them that prevents them from going invisible. You'll see a blue ball floating over them when it's applied successfully. What I do on my magplar when fighting nightblades is recast Radiant magelight regularly throughout the fight so that they can't use cloak. It's a strategic choice - you either wait and let them cloak and try to reveal them, or you prevent them from cloaking by "spending" a GCD on it. I especially do this when I see them cast a shade because they're likely to teleport to it then immediately cloak sometime in the very near future. I am saying this in response to your point that gankers are god mode because they are able to cloak during a fight.

If you happen to be open to running radiant on your travel bar, then your stats are plenty enough to survive ganks in combination with alertness (being able to react before the incap hits) - though most gankers won't touch you if you have radiant up unless you're already fighting several other people. I'd probably worry if you aren't going to run with radiant. Yeah, again, I agree with you that it isn't the best situation when you have to build your character to counter gankers... but at least it's an option and makes QoL go up a lot while out in Cyrodiil. The big benefit to me is that they tend to be easy kills when you can survive the initial gank attempt, and they are a great source of enjoyable rage tells.

And yeah, that's what I keep saying. Without a major revision to the combat system the burst damage is sorta necessary. People need to be able to burst each other rapidly from 100-0, because they can recover so fast from X-100 with little counter to the recovery. If you have CC immunity, for example immediately following an unsuccessful burst attempt, you can hold block and spam your heals (or dodge cancel casts of heals) and there just isn't much someone can do to prevent you from recovering. Magicka builds have more counters to dodge than stam builds do, so they do somewhat have the opportunity to counter someone who rolls around casting heals. So what you have is this dynamic where the vast majority of damage that doesn't outright kill your target is irrelevant.

Dorrino

Kutsuu wrote: »

I am not sure if you're trying to troll or what, but let me try to be more clear.

I can assure you i got better things to do than to troll people on the internet.

Kutsuu wrote: »

Using Radiant Magelight on a player even if they aren't currently in stealth puts a 6 second debuff on them that prevents them from going invisible.

1. It's 3 sec, not 6 sec.

2. My experience tells me that it applies its 'revealed' debuff only if the target was in stealth/invis when radiant was casted. Can we have a 3rd party confirmation that it prevents the targets from using cloak even if the target was not in cloak when it was casted?

Kutsuu wrote: »

You'll see a blue ball floating over them when it's applied successfully.

I wrote an addon that puts large blue 'REVEALED' letters in the mid of your screen when this happens:)

Kutsuu wrote: »

What I do on my magplar when fighting nightblades is recast Radiant magelight regularly throughout the fight so that they can't use cloak. It's a strategic choice - you either wait and let them cloak and try to reveal them, or you prevent them from cloaking by "spending" a GCD on it. I especially do this when I see them cast a shade because they're likely to teleport to it then immediately cloak sometime in the very near future. I am saying this in response to your point that gankers are god mode because they are able to cloak during a fight.

1. As i said we need a confirmation it indeed works like this. My experience says otherwise, but i might be wrong.

2. Nightblade will cc you and THEN go to cloak, thus making radiant spam more or less pointless (see above about 3 sec duration).

Kutsuu wrote: »

If you happen to be open to running radiant on your travel bar, then your stats are plenty enough to survive ganks in combination with alertness (being able to react before the incap hits) - though most gankers won't touch you if you have radiant up unless you're already fighting several other people. I'd probably worry if you aren't going to run with radiant. Yeah, again, I agree with you that it isn't the best situation when you have to build your character to counter gankers... but at least it's an option and makes QoL go up a lot while out in Cyrodiil.

Most ranged ganks start with bow heavy. Having radiant on your bars will reduce its damage by 50%, but will do nothing to the following ambush+incap.

Kutsuu wrote: »

And yeah, that's what I keep saying. Without a major revision to the combat system the burst damage is sorta necessary. People need to be able to burst each other rapidly from 100-0, because they can recover so fast from X-100 with little counter to the recovery.

This implies you need to kill targets sooner than later. Which is discussable.

Kutsuu wrote: »

If you have CC immunity, for example immediately following an unsuccessful burst attempt, you can hold block and spam your heals (or dodge cancel casts of heals) and there just isn't much someone can do to prevent you from recovering.

Then don't prevent their recovery and start from there? You sound like someone who doesn't want let people to get up if they got stunned on the mount:)

Yiko

Kutsuu wrote: »

I don't know if you realize this, but there have been ways to kill players in under 1 second since beta throughout every single patch and moment of time until today. Don't act like this is some new mechanic.

I've never pretended that this is a new mechanic. It's just that most of the methods have been nerfed in the past, as 1 second kills aren't healthy for the game, both out of stealth and especially from in stealth.

Wrecking Blow into Take Flight + Heavy Attack + Executioner? Wrecking Blow lost its stun. How often do you see Wrecking Blow these days?

In 1.6, ganking saw an era of ganks similar to now. Battle spirit didn't reduce damage by quite as much IIRC, and impen trait wasn't commonly used. People with 2,000+ CP played gankers. Imagine how hard they hit for. ZOS quickly realized how cancerous an uncapped CP system could be, because the damage was too high (read: 100-0 1s kills) on top of the low % damage reduction from Battle Spirit on top of all of the other benefits. Both were changed. CP capped at 500 IIRC and Battle Spirit changed from 20% damage reduction to 50% damage reduction.

Proxy Det's single target damage could hit for ~10k+ crits on Impen users in a certain patch, maybe around Orsinium. That was nerfed significantly. I think they also changed it to no longer benefit from the DOT CP, though I could be mistaken.

Magicka builds using Dawnbreaker of Smiting could hit people harder than stam does now before its change to physical damage. Obviously that was changed.

Proc sets can no longer crit on PTS. Another nerf for potential 100-0 in 1 second.

Most of what I listed above was performed out of stealth, so at least people could react. My point is that historically these methods of 100-0 in ~1 second have been addressed. For any of these things listed previously, you could have said, "Well, run more health." but that completely neglects the fundamental issue of balance.

Now the main topic of discussion is the % damage modifier, guaranteed crit, and built-in stun stealth mechanics.
The only reason I've been given why these should exist in the PVP environment are that it makes the 100-0 in 1s gank playstyle possible. Well, that playstyle shouldn't exist for the sake of balance. Stop equating gank with 100-0 in 1s. Start equating it with engaging at your discretion from stealth.

Derra

Radiant is active around your char for 6 seconds and reveals enemies that cloak/sneak in it´s radius for 3 seconds.
It´s radius is reduced by any stealth passive and setbonus in the game.

Dorrino

Derra wrote: »

Radiant is active around your char for 6 seconds and reveals enemies that cloak/sneak in it´s radius for 3 seconds.
It´s radius is reduced by any stealth passive and setbonus in the game.

Does it reveal people each second or each half a second then?

And does it apply the debuff on a visible target as Kutsuu claims? I just tested in pve and it does not apply the debuff on visible mobs. Might be different in pvp though.

Kutsuu

I play a ganker NB, and I play characters that are built with the pure purpose of baiting and destroying gankers. I don't have some agenda to lie about how radiant magelight works. You can use it preventatively to stop them from stealthing.

Derra

Dorrino wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Radiant is active around your char for 6 seconds and reveals enemies that cloak/sneak in it´s radius for 3 seconds.
It´s radius is reduced by any stealth passive and setbonus in the game.

Does it reveal people each second or each half a second then?

And does it apply the debuff on a visible target as Kutsuu claims? I just tested in pve and it does not apply the debuff on visible mobs. Might be different in pvp though.

I does apply the debuff on players that get pulled out of sneak/invisibility. If someone does not get revealed by it they can run out of range and instantly cloak.
Players that do get revealed can run out of range and cloak after 3 seconds.
Players that do stay in range will get pulled out of cloak for the 6s that magelight is active on the player casting the buff.

You´re both correct you can use the ability to counter cloak on players that stay in range but it fails to counter players that manage to get out of it´s ~7 to 9m range.

Dorrino

Derra wrote: »

I does apply the debuff on players that get pulled out of sneak/invisibility. If someone does not get revealed by it they can run out of range and instantly cloak.

But does it apply the debuff on a player that is NOT cloaking/invis?:)

Johngo0036

The addon is not the answer to the problem, it is a cheat to the problem and has arisen due to the total OP Ness of proc sets.
I understand people using it however i do feel it is cheating,

In 1.5 and 1.6 there were issues with NB's one shotting people from stealth, what happened, Zenni nerfed ALL damage and Healing by 50%,

What does Zenni do a year later, introduce procsets that enable people to do one shots from stealth again...

Zenni YOU need to step up here and relook at proc sets, removing crit from them IS NOT going to work coz even without crit they can still one shot you,

clever alchemist on backbar, viper and velidreth on front bar, heavy attack from stealth without crits will still hit for 21k+...... and a fart in the general direction of the enemy kills them....

You nerfed radiant destruction and a load of skills but have not looked into Incapacitating strike,
it does soo much damage, reduces healing and stuns for 50 ultimate,
The cost of this ultimate needs to be increased to 100 ultimate.
My primary PVP character is a Stam NB so to those NB's out there who want to say anything to me just chill.....

The damage to cost ratio of each ultimate needs to be looked at and balanced, as well as other benefits,
Yes a 5% cost reduction to the destro ultimate is the most stupid change... Just make it Blockable.. LIKE ALL OTHER ULTIMATES.....

Derra

Dorrino wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

I does apply the debuff on players that get pulled out of sneak/invisibility. If someone does not get revealed by it they can run out of range and instantly cloak.

But does it apply the debuff on a player that is NOT cloaking/invis?:)

Nah.

Kutsuu

Dorrino wrote: »

Kutsuu wrote: »

If you happen to be open to running radiant on your travel bar, then your stats are plenty enough to survive ganks in combination with alertness (being able to react before the incap hits) - though most gankers won't touch you if you have radiant up unless you're already fighting several other people. I'd probably worry if you aren't going to run with radiant. Yeah, again, I agree with you that it isn't the best situation when you have to build your character to counter gankers... but at least it's an option and makes QoL go up a lot while out in Cyrodiil.

Most ranged ganks start with bow heavy. Having radiant on your bars will reduce its damage by 50%, but will do nothing to the following ambush+incap.

Kutsuu wrote: »

And yeah, that's what I keep saying. Without a major revision to the combat system the burst damage is sorta necessary. People need to be able to burst each other rapidly from 100-0, because they can recover so fast from X-100 with little counter to the recovery.

This implies you need to kill targets sooner than later. Which is discussable.

Kutsuu wrote: »

If you have CC immunity, for example immediately following an unsuccessful burst attempt, you can hold block and spam your heals (or dodge cancel casts of heals) and there just isn't much someone can do to prevent you from recovering.

Then don't prevent their recovery and start from there? You sound like someone who doesn't want let people to get up if they got stunned on the mount:)

Again, there is a 1/2 second delay between the ambush+heavy attack landing and the incap landing. This is enforced by game mechanics - you have 1s between abilities and ambush has a .5s cast time, this allows you to cast incap 1/2 second later at the earliest. You ask for counter play - this is your opportunity. Magelight prevents you from being stunned by the heavy attack, so your counter play is to react quickly and block or dodge the incap. What do you mean by counter play if not something that requires you to act?

Also I don't know what rock you've been living under, but falling off a horse is an unbreakable CC and just about every build out that that isn't a trolltank can kill you during the dismount CC. My Heavy armor 26k HP magplar kills people when they let me knock them off their mount. If you choose to ride your mount with no stamina (keeping it empty with sprint), then you are purposefully putting yourself in a very vulnerable position that ANY PLAYER can capitalize on. Do you really think Nightblade gankers are the only ones who use crouch to surprise people? If you want to be able to defend yourself on your mount, keep a full bar of stamina and be ready to hit the block button - block instantly dismounts you and puts you in the perfect defensive position to avoid death.

KisoValley

Addon works fine and it should reveal all stealthed players in their specific location to make it more balanced against the broken mechanic of stealth imo.

rfennell_ESO

Radiant magelight is very effective at catching stealth gankers.

Effective enough that the functionality of this addon is not needed.

The fact that many just flat out refuse to run radiant is on them.

Minalan

Of course the nightblades want to keep their one shot easy mode kills.

Here's nightblade gameplay right now:
https://youtu.be/x-daxzVxrQI

Lets be honest: The only 'skill' required to gank someone is lining up the teabag after the insta-gank (so many poor nightblades miss the teabag completely).

A nerf to stealth is in order, then do something about the add-on API.

FENGRUSH

Johngo0036 wrote: »

The addon is not the answer to the problem, it is a cheat to the problem and has arisen due to the total OP Ness of proc sets.

You dont need proc sets to insta kill from burst, and you never did. If people think proc sets are the reason someone slams them from stealth they need to go back to theory crafting and learn whats going on with damage.

People have been able to instakill from stealth for awhile. Its a problem with how stealth attacks bonus functions. That needs to be changed. Proc sets just make it easier and quicker to recycle the combo on average targets.

Crown

Johngo0036 wrote: »

The addon is not the answer to the problem, it is a cheat

I find it interesting that so many people are calling the use of this addon a "cheat".

Lets consider what is actually happening: The ESO API provides information. Miat's addon takes that information and makes it visually usable to players.

If you're a trader, and you use either Master Merchant or Tamriel Trader, you're using an addon to take information from the API and seeing that information in a visually usable manner. Are you going to call people using those addons cheaters in the great game of making gold?

You may not like what Miat's addon does to stealth, but there's a very big difference between cheating and visualising information that is readily available.

If ZOS doesn't want players to get that information, it wouldn't be in the API. If ZOS made a mistake by making that information available, then they'll remove it from the API in the next patch.

Dorrino

Minalan wrote: »

Lets be honest: The only 'skill' required to gank someone is lining up the teabag after the insta-gank (so many poor nightblades miss the teabag completely).

I lol'ed irl. Thank you this this:D

Kutsuu wrote: »

Again, there is a 1/2 second delay between the ambush+heavy attack landing and the incap landing. This is enforced by game mechanics - you have 1s between abilities and ambush has a .5s cast time, this allows you to cast incap 1/2 second later at the earliest. You ask for counter play - this is your opportunity. Magelight prevents you from being stunned by the heavy attack, so your counter play is to react quickly and block or dodge the incap. What do you mean by counter play if not something that requires you to act?

Alrighty. So to summarize this people need to have radiant on both bars and react to 0.5 sec delay between abmush and incap. Gotcha.

Next question. What if they start with melee heavy+incap? Heavy won't stun because radiant, incap will stun. Or even better, dizzying swing from stealth into incap. You wasted 2 slots on your bars for something that won't prevent these type of ganks. What now? How would you git gud in these circumstances?:)

Kutsuu wrote: »

Also I don't know what rock you've been living under, but falling off a horse is an unbreakable CC and just about every build out that that isn't a trolltank can kill you during the dismount CC. My Heavy armor 26k HP magplar kills people when they let me knock them off their mount. If you choose to ride your mount with no stamina (keeping it empty with sprint), then you are purposefully putting yourself in a very vulnerable position that ANY PLAYER can capitalize on. Do you really think Nightblade gankers are the only ones who use crouch to surprise people? If you want to be able to defend yourself on your mount, keep a full bar of stamina and be ready to hit the block button - block instantly dismounts you and puts you in the perfect defensive position to avoid death.

I'm living under the rock which has "let the poor guy get up" inscribed on its bottom:)

Kutsuu

Dorrino wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Lets be honest: The only 'skill' required to gank someone is lining up the teabag after the insta-gank (so many poor nightblades miss the teabag completely).

I lol'ed irl. Thank you this this:D

Kutsuu wrote: »

Again, there is a 1/2 second delay between the ambush+heavy attack landing and the incap landing. This is enforced by game mechanics - you have 1s between abilities and ambush has a .5s cast time, this allows you to cast incap 1/2 second later at the earliest. You ask for counter play - this is your opportunity. Magelight prevents you from being stunned by the heavy attack, so your counter play is to react quickly and block or dodge the incap. What do you mean by counter play if not something that requires you to act?

Alrighty. So to summarize this people need to have radiant on both bars and react to 0.5 sec delay between abmush and incap. Gotcha.

Next question. What if they start with melee heavy+incap? Heavy won't stun because radiant, incap will stun. Or even better, dizzying swing from stealth into incap. You wasted 2 slots on your bars for something that won't prevent these type of ganks. What now? How would you git gud in these circumstances?:)

Kutsuu wrote: »

Also I don't know what rock you've been living under, but falling off a horse is an unbreakable CC and just about every build out that that isn't a trolltank can kill you during the dismount CC. My Heavy armor 26k HP magplar kills people when they let me knock them off their mount. If you choose to ride your mount with no stamina (keeping it empty with sprint), then you are purposefully putting yourself in a very vulnerable position that ANY PLAYER can capitalize on. Do you really think Nightblade gankers are the only ones who use crouch to surprise people? If you want to be able to defend yourself on your mount, keep a full bar of stamina and be ready to hit the block button - block instantly dismounts you and puts you in the perfect defensive position to avoid death.

I'm living under the rock which has "let the poor guy get up" inscribed on its bottom:)

Look at the thread we're in man. Both melee heavy attacks and dizzying swing are almost impossible to use against a Miat's user. You specifically referenced the heavy > ambush > incap gank, even saying that you were running radiant, and I told you what you can do to counter play with your scenario. Deflect all you want.

So what exactly do you expect about the horse thing? Do you think you shouldn't have to keep stam? Be able to CC break the mount falling animation? Like I said it certainly doesn't require a ganker to kill someone who falls off their horse during a ~3 second CC.

FENGRUSH

NedicWildling wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqEq8mxwt2M

Miat's logic... 10/10 would code again.

Also, is this really Miat in the video talking about where is the counterplay etc. ?