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Official Discussion Thread for "ESO Welcomes Crown Crates"
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TerraDewBerry✭✭✭✭✭
✭Ahnastashia wrote: »lordrichter wrote: »rmerlb16_ESO wrote: »lordrichter wrote: »They make nothing selling Crown Crates.
They make money from us in four ways. They sell the initial game license, they sell Crowns, they sell ESO Plus subscriptions, they sell merchandise in the Bethesda ESO Store.
With Crowns, it does not matter what you purchase in the Store, or if you purchase anything at all. What Crown Crates do is deplete Crown reserves and encourage purchase of additional Crowns.
That's a contradiction there. You say yourself that crown crates will encourage the purchase of additional Crowns. Then looks to me that selling Crown Crates does allow them to make money.
They make money selling Crowns, not Crown Crates. All that matters, at the end of the day, is how much revenue they make from the Crowns they sell. Not how many Crown Crates.
Edit: With my ESO Plus Crowns, I can buy 45 Crown Crates during a year and not have to buy a single additional Crown. This nets ZOS absolutely no extra revenue from me. None. Zip. Were I to do this, the Crown Crates would simply be part of my ESO Plus subscription.
I won't be using my ESO Plus Crowns for this, just to be clear.
If they see a significant increase in crown purchases and also many crown crate purchases, I'm going to say I believe they will see the connection, and will see the introduction of crown crates as a "huge success". If however, they do not see an increase in crown purchases and little to no crown crate purchases, I would think that would be a message that their crown crates failed. Am I wrong here?
We've been giving them feedback for years and they ignore it,why would they start now?
Yup, I get that, but nothing speaks as loudly as your wallet... so, let your wallet do your talking. My wallet will be saying "oh %$#^ NO" to crown crates.
Edited by TerraDewBerry on November 30, 2016 2:09AM6 -
Lykanus✭✭✭
We've been giving them feedback for years and they ignore it,why would they start now?
The point is, if the crates are being boycotted, they would make more money with selling the items direct in the crown store, as those items would be in demand, if they were reachable or at least the price known that needs to be paid for.
If they now dont get money out of them, they will change it - it would be just plain a marketing strategy that they need to follow to make revenue of those items, if they are unsellable in a crate, they will be sold somewhere were they actually get bought.
Edited by Lykanus on November 30, 2016 2:09AM4 -
Abeille✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Ahnastashia wrote: »lordrichter wrote: »rmerlb16_ESO wrote: »lordrichter wrote: »They make nothing selling Crown Crates.
They make money from us in four ways. They sell the initial game license, they sell Crowns, they sell ESO Plus subscriptions, they sell merchandise in the Bethesda ESO Store.
With Crowns, it does not matter what you purchase in the Store, or if you purchase anything at all. What Crown Crates do is deplete Crown reserves and encourage purchase of additional Crowns.
That's a contradiction there. You say yourself that crown crates will encourage the purchase of additional Crowns. Then looks to me that selling Crown Crates does allow them to make money.
They make money selling Crowns, not Crown Crates. All that matters, at the end of the day, is how much revenue they make from the Crowns they sell. Not how many Crown Crates.
Edit: With my ESO Plus Crowns, I can buy 45 Crown Crates during a year and not have to buy a single additional Crown. This nets ZOS absolutely no extra revenue from me. None. Zip. Were I to do this, the Crown Crates would simply be part of my ESO Plus subscription.
I won't be using my ESO Plus Crowns for this, just to be clear.
If they see a significant increase in crown purchases and also many crown crate purchases, I'm going to say I believe they will see the connection, and will see the introduction of crown crates as a "huge success". If however, they do not see an increase in crown purchases and little to no crown crate purchases, I would think that would be a message that their crown crates failed. Am I wrong here?
I will repeat something that @lordrichter said to me a month ago.
Regardless of what happens, the first news we get regarding the Crown Crates will surely contain the expression "huge success".
They have no problem saying that ESO "welcomes" them while the feedback is overwhelmingly negative. They will have no problem saying they were a success even if they don't sell like they expected (although given the history of this kind of scam in MMOs, they will sell).Just so that everyone knows, my Altmer still can't have black hair. About a dozen of Altmer NPCs in the game have black hair. Just saying.
Meet my characters:Command: Do the thing.
Zadarri, Khajiit Fist of Thalmor: The thing was done, as commanded.
Durza gra-Maghul, Orc blacksmith: The thing was done perfectly, in the most efficient way.
Tegwen, Bosmer troublemaker: You can't prove I didn't do the thing.
Sings-Many-Songs, Argonian fisher: Sure, I'll do the thing... Eventually. Maybe.
Aerindel, Altmer stormcaller: After extensive research, I've come to the conclusion that doing the thing would be a waste of resources.
Liliel, Dunmer pyromancer: Aerindel said I shouldn't do the thing. Something about "resources".
Gyda Snowcaller, Nord cryomancer: I will find a way to do it that won't waste resources and make Aerindel proud of me.
Beatrice Leoriane, Breton vampire: I persuaded someone else into doing the thing. You are welcome, dear.
Sahima, Redguard performer: Doing the thing sounds awfully unpleasant and really not my problem.
Ellaria Valerius, Imperial priestess: I'll pray to the Eight for the thing to be done, if it is Their will.9 -
Lykanus✭✭✭They have no problem saying that ESO "welcomes" them while the feedback is overwhelmingly negative. They will have no problem saying they were a success even if they don't sell like they expected (although given the history of this kind of scam in MMOs, they will sell).
There you are right, the will sell, however the main community isnt the usual mmo community, so the outcome _could_ be different.
Its all a matter of how many players have an own will to not be blinded by some marketing and withstand the temptation and see what it really is: a gamble where the customers only lose.
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Abeille✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭They have no problem saying that ESO "welcomes" them while the feedback is overwhelmingly negative. They will have no problem saying they were a success even if they don't sell like they expected (although given the history of this kind of scam in MMOs, they will sell).
There you are right, the will sell, however the main community isnt the usual mmo community, so the outcome _could_ be different.
Its all a matter of how many players have an own will to not be blinded by some marketing and withstand the temptation and see what it really is: a gamble where the customers only lose.
You have a lot of faith in the community and that's a really nice thing to see, especially in such a horrible day Just so that everyone knows, my Altmer still can't have black hair. About a dozen of Altmer NPCs in the game have black hair. Just saying.
Meet my characters:Command: Do the thing.
Zadarri, Khajiit Fist of Thalmor: The thing was done, as commanded.
Durza gra-Maghul, Orc blacksmith: The thing was done perfectly, in the most efficient way.
Tegwen, Bosmer troublemaker: You can't prove I didn't do the thing.
Sings-Many-Songs, Argonian fisher: Sure, I'll do the thing... Eventually. Maybe.
Aerindel, Altmer stormcaller: After extensive research, I've come to the conclusion that doing the thing would be a waste of resources.
Liliel, Dunmer pyromancer: Aerindel said I shouldn't do the thing. Something about "resources".
Gyda Snowcaller, Nord cryomancer: I will find a way to do it that won't waste resources and make Aerindel proud of me.
Beatrice Leoriane, Breton vampire: I persuaded someone else into doing the thing. You are welcome, dear.
Sahima, Redguard performer: Doing the thing sounds awfully unpleasant and really not my problem.
Ellaria Valerius, Imperial priestess: I'll pray to the Eight for the thing to be done, if it is Their will.6 -
ListerJMC✭✭✭✭✭
✭My 2 cents... I'm not impressed that you've kept a lot of things exclusive. I mean I expected for you to keep the atronach themed items exclusive, but non-themed items as well? Why not give people the opportunity to directly purchase them before putting them in the crates if you really must put them there? Would that really make less $?
I can't say I welcome these crates at all, and I really hope this doesn't hinder the development of actual game content as others have predicted
. PC NA & EU || Mammoth Guilds - Victory or Valhalla || Altmer sorcerer main
"Wood Elves aren't made of wood. Sea Elves aren't made of water. M'aiq still wonders about High Elves."6 -
WhiteCoatSyndrome✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭As I promised here, I have cancelled my sub. Starting Thursday when the Crates hit I will be taking the promised week-long vacation from ESO. Haven't decided whether or not to count the forums in that, but if no one hears from me until the Thursday after next you'll know why.#proud2BAStarObsessedLoony
PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!
A useful explanation for how RNG works
How to turn off the sustainability features (screen dimming, fps cap) on PC
Loremaster’s Archive now open for questions!9 -
Recremen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Customer reviews are now pouring in after seeing that they are still planning on implementing the gambling boxes! Let's take a look at what players are saying.
Edited by Recremen on November 30, 2016 4:22AMMen'Do PC NA AD Khajiit
Grand High Illustrious Mid-Tier PvP/PvE Bussmunster13 -
Toorlokviing✭✭✭if i buy any of these crown crates..im going to get so many dupes due to having bought almost all the retired crown store items. i know everyone likes to flame something they dont like but i know i will at least spend 5k crowns on these just to see what i get.Edited by Toorlokviing on November 30, 2016 4:28AM2 -
MissBizz✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Toorlokviing wrote: »if i buy any of these crown crates..im going to get so many dupes due to having bought almost all the retired crown store items. i know everyone likes to flame something they dont like but i know i will at least spend 5k crowns on these just to see what i get.
@Toorlokviing in the pts version (which is sounds like will be the same items for the first season) only 33% of items were past items... So even if you owned a ton of crown store stuff your chances weren't exactly stellar. Especially because some of the past items were in the tier just below apex.. so they were pretty rare.
Go for it, just thought I'd let ya know about that. When they were first announced (before pts) I thought the same thing.Lone Wolf HelpFor the solo players who know, sometimes you just need a hand.PC | NA | AD-DC-EP | Discord8 -
j3crow✭✭✭I am against WoW being B2P + Subscription AND having a cash shop on top of it, hence why I've never played it. Unturned is F2P from a small developer. It isn't a large studio with multiple revenue sources on three major platforms. CS:GO also has a $15 price point, skins can drop directly, and you can buy what you want directly from the Steam marketplace without having to gamble.
Whether the skin is gambling-only or bought with cash, it's still just a skin. It makes zero difference to your gameplay.
That isn't my argument. At all. I don't care what's in the crates. I have no need to obtain a specific mount in order to make my ESO experience complete. I do, however, care about what gambling crates do to game ecosystems. They have demonstrated time and time again to be an exploitative, insulting method of fleecing customers by waving the best collectibles and that oh so elusive "you might get it in only a few tries" possibility in the player's faces. ESO is buy to play, has DLC, an optional subscription service, and an in-game store. And I'm fine with all of that. Companies DO need to make money. But they shouldn't be willing to make it so blatantly at the expense of the customer experience. Meaningful content updates and communication with the players keeps MMO's alive. Crate systems turn them into gambling simulators that limp on in some form of purgatorial type existence. The focus always ends up being what can be made "crate exclusive" instead of "how can we introduce fresh and exciting content?"
The above exactly.
I think what a lot of people who are not worried about crown crates miss, is that the problem isn't the crates themselves. Those of us who have been playing these things awhile, have prior experience with titles that end up pursuing this kind of bussiness model. The game becomes a storefront for gambling with very poor odds, and development resources are commited to filling these lottery boxes with exclusive items, instead of quality content for the game.
As someone who spends money in these things, I very much appreciated that ZOS was setting a different tone, instead of following a cheap, exploitive Asian market bussiness model. I felt like they were attempting to court my patronage in the long-term and they understood that for the western consumer, that means something. That earns brand loyalty, and for those of us who can afford to spend, we'll spend gladly in a market that is adding value to the transaction and dealing with us honestly.
My impression has changed, now. It demonstrates to me how very little understanding that ZOS has for its consumer base. ESO was developing a niche culture by breaking with the cheap, throw-away bussiness trends seen in other games. It was refreshing. I was buying extra when I could, because I wanted to support the company and the product.
As a middle aged, retiree who loves these games and spends money on them, consumerism is my culture. I reward 'good deals' and 'fair practices'. ZOS just lost favor with me with a market scheme like this. I don't view them with the same respect I had before. They're proving that they are not a refreshing change to the industry, and they are not trying to develope a long term relationship with me as a customer. They are in fact, just like their competitors and are only interested in short-money, quarter to quarter. They adopted the schemes of other companies, thinking that their customers would be as accepting as others, never realizing that all the games who chose this path, could actually be fairing better had they focused on quality, long term relationships with the player base. Even PWE with Neverwinter, that has a nefarious reputation with their bussiness model, has made a lot of changes to their marketing plan. They restructred a lot of the orginal pricing, made a lot more accessible in-game, and have added increasing value to their premium service. They did this as a matter of lessons learned the hard way.
I would suggest that ZOS communicates to this issue, both to reaffirm commitment to the development of game content, as well as reassure the customer base that these crates will be a lot more rewarding than as oringially implemented.Edited by j3crow on November 30, 2016 5:14AM10 -
Towerdragon✭✭✭Congratulations this is the most vague post ever we are all curious what was change from PTS was anything changed please give us more information2 -
bellanca6561n✭✭✭✭✭
✭The concept of a soul is an unsupportable fictional construct based in groundless wish fulfillment and the inability of individuals to accept the proven destiny of all mortal creatures.
I'm happy to see that Zenimax Online Studios shares my view.2 -
shadoza✭✭✭This thread is extremely toxic. I am guessing that if anyone, other than myself, were happy to see the crates coming, they certainly would not share it here.
I have a question regarding the Crown Gems.
The article says : Any Crown Gems you earn can then be used to purchase the collectible items of your choosing from the current Crown Crate season.
Can I assume that the Crown Gems earned will carry over to other seasons?1 -
Please reconsider this! I have several consumables I got from limited time bundles I don't need. Some of them can't even put in bank for some reason. I mean, what should I do with Crown Lessons Pack when all my characters have their riding maxed.ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »2 -
Rosveen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
I DID pass on the Turquoise Nixad waiting for the Orchid. And now we lost the wolves too. ;(ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »There will be some new, non-themed items exclusive to Crown Crates, yes. These are largely going to be re-skins of existing items, though. You will be able to purchase these with Crown Gems, and they will be priced lower than the themed Apex-level mounts.
This is even worse news than the storm atronach mounts being exclusive.
It is worse news to me too. I actually wanted some of those reskins more than I wanted atronach stuff. But it sounds like the only way I'll be able to buy them now is if they introduce a new option to purchase crown gems directly, because I'm not doing the gamble and exchange thing.
If only...
But then it wouldn't be a gamble like intended.
I really wish ZOS still posted the Crown Store Showcase today. Waiting until tomorrow to find out if the mount I want is Crown Crate Exclusive or not will be torture.
I'm not holding on to any hopes there.
On the bright side, I finally gave up on waiting for the red wolf mount a little while back and bought the regular one. I actually love it! It actually fits the character I bought it for perfectly and I'm really glad I picked it.
I almost passed on the Turquoise Nixad, which is my absolute favourite pet, because I was waiting for the Orchid Nixad. The Orchid Nixad was one of the Crate-exclusive pets on the PTS.
I would still buy the Orchid Nixad if it came out through direct purchase, but I would hate myself forever if I passed on the Turquoise Nixad for it knowing now that it will be forever away from my grasp.
I'm still going to buy the items I like from the crown store, but I will never buy a crown crate no matter how attractive its contents are because gambling is a shameful and unethical method of conning us out of our money.7 -
Esquire1980g_ESO✭✭✭Another good MMO implodes from within. F2P is the absolute worst development that ever happened to MMOs.Edited by Esquire1980g_ESO on November 30, 2016 6:56AM3 -
Kram8ion✭✭✭✭✭So I only play one toon kajiit
Am I going to end up getting argonian head stuff that is no use?
These are basic details
ps4eu
Kramm stam man kittyblade2 -
Pandorii✭✭✭✭✭
✭So I only play one toon kajiit
Am I going to end up getting argonian head stuff that is no use?
These are basic details
This is what bothers me most of all about the crown crates (though there's plenty to be annoyed about). Why have race or gender exclusive cosmetic items in the crown crates? Why have horse improvement scrolls when some players might have them maxed out? They're literally pumping us with items that many of us will never use. It can be worth 1 million crowns, but if I don't have a character that can use it, it's garbage.11 -
Valethar✭✭✭✭SNAFU - ESO released
TARFU - Tamriel Unlimited
FUBAR - One Tamriel
BOHICA - Crown CratesResistance is not futile! Say no to the Greed Collective™. Boycott Crown Crates.0 -
Kram8ion✭✭✭✭✭Will crown crate releases become the new cancer to be scorned by others?ps4eu
Kramm stam man kittyblade2 -
Kram8ion✭✭✭✭✭Let's face it boycotting totally is not going to be a realistic outcome
Curiosity will win over but luck will decide for many if it's a once bitten twice shy experience
If people take the dive then tell us how deep the water is here
ps4eu
Kramm stam man kittyblade0 -
FLambda✭✭✭
Which is, of course, precisely the point.omfg all what people talk about mounts..
its useless consumables bundles with lottery of 0.3% chance to get a mount
its 99.3% consumables crates
Yeah, this just enforces negative stereotypes, and #racism!Callous2208 wrote: »@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RichLambert No one gives a *** about these scam boxes. Now that this fiasco is out of the way, can we get some info on upcoming expansions and other meaningful content? Watching a khajiit throw me worthless consumables while I *** away good money doesn't keep me interested in your game. Similar practices are why I left other MMO's. Show me screens of upcoming zones and features and stfu about cash shop, scam box bs. Can I safely assume the added income you get from lottery loving peasants will lead to bigger and better content updates? Can I get an eso live or article detailing non cash shop related plans for the future?Edited by FLambda on November 30, 2016 8:07AMRemember: there's no such thing as the Universal Standard of Descriptional Qualifications and Metrics.
The Wisdom of M'aiq the Liar:- You wish to become a lich? It's very easy, my friend. Simply find the heart of a lich, combine it with the tongue of a dragon, and cook it with the flesh of a well-ridden horse. This combination is certain to make you undead.
- M'aiq prefers to adventure alone. Others just get in the way. And they talk, talk, talk.
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timidobserver✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Ahnastashia wrote: »lordrichter wrote: »rmerlb16_ESO wrote: »lordrichter wrote: »They make nothing selling Crown Crates.
They make money from us in four ways. They sell the initial game license, they sell Crowns, they sell ESO Plus subscriptions, they sell merchandise in the Bethesda ESO Store.
With Crowns, it does not matter what you purchase in the Store, or if you purchase anything at all. What Crown Crates do is deplete Crown reserves and encourage purchase of additional Crowns.
That's a contradiction there. You say yourself that crown crates will encourage the purchase of additional Crowns. Then looks to me that selling Crown Crates does allow them to make money.
They make money selling Crowns, not Crown Crates. All that matters, at the end of the day, is how much revenue they make from the Crowns they sell. Not how many Crown Crates.
Edit: With my ESO Plus Crowns, I can buy 45 Crown Crates during a year and not have to buy a single additional Crown. This nets ZOS absolutely no extra revenue from me. None. Zip. Were I to do this, the Crown Crates would simply be part of my ESO Plus subscription.
I won't be using my ESO Plus Crowns for this, just to be clear.
If they see a significant increase in crown purchases and also many crown crate purchases, I'm going to say I believe they will see the connection, and will see the introduction of crown crates as a "huge success". If however, they do not see an increase in crown purchases and little to no crown crate purchases, I would think that would be a message that their crown crates failed. Am I wrong here?
I will repeat something that @lordrichter said to me a month ago.
Regardless of what happens, the first news we get regarding the Crown Crates will surely contain the expression "huge success".
They have no problem saying that ESO "welcomes" them while the feedback is overwhelmingly negative. They will have no problem saying they were a success even if they don't sell like they expected (although given the history of this kind of scam in MMOs, they will sell).
Mounts and pets probably don't take a lot of development resources to create. The margin for success is probably pretty low. All they need is for a small amount of people to go all out.V16 Uriel Stormblessed EP Magicka Templar(main)
V16 Derelict Vagabond EP Stamina DK
V16 Redacted Ep Stam Sorc
V16 Insolent EP Magicka Sorc(retired)
V16 Jed I Nyte EP Stamina NB(retired)0 -
Mercutio✭✭✭✭In the hope that the devs are watching this thread, I'd like to highlight two issues related to the Crown Crates and then offer a solution.
1) Consumer Goodwill. Much like 'political capital', consumer goodwill is a finite, if non tangible, resource. I would say you have burned through a good bit of your accumulated stock with the release of Crown Crates. While I suspect the spread sheet will show this as a good short term move, long term I think you cooked the golden goose.
2) Product Toxicity. Even if I saw something in the Crown Crates that I greatly desired, I would be too ashamed to show it to the public. So why bother?
Proffered Solution- Give one Crown Crate a month to subscribers of ESO Plus
- Have Crown Crates drop in the game world. Something small like 0.3%.
- Have one weekend a year where everything ever offered is put on sale in your Crown Shop.
If you did this you would reap the following benefits:- Plausible deniability for consumers who wish to spend a good deal on Crown Crates but are now too embarrassed to admit to doing so.
- Increased value of the ESO Plus optional subscription.
- The start of Consumer Good Will regeneration once people know that they will have the chance to buy the items they truly desire at some point in the future.
- The Collector demographic, which I imagine is highly profitable, will be saved.
Lastly, there needs to be communication from on high. Moses needs to descend the mountain and tell us what is what. For example, if the company is in the red and this is a last ditch effort to keep it afloat I know all reasonable people would be much more sympathetic. In fact, I would buy some of the damn crates if that is what it took.
No disrespect is intended towards Ms. @ZOS_GinaBruno - she is a wonderful, charming community moderator who does an outstanding job. But we need a staff member higher up the chain to come to the forums and speak plainly. This would be seen as a sign of respect to the community and would help humanize your company in its hour of need. Silence is not your ally - it truly is exacerbating the situation. What people can imagine is usually far worse than the facts of the matter.
As for me, I plan to continue to support TESO with a sub and occasional direct purchase from the Crown Store. But as I am a Collector, i.e. I 'gotta have them all', and can no longer have them all through direct purchase, I will be spending much less.
I wish all of the dev team the absolute best. ESO is still the best MMORPG on the market, hands down. I wish I understood the motivation behind this strategy, though. You certainly don't "owe" me or any other consumer an explanation, but in doing so the medicine would be far easier to swallow.
Happy Holidays to everyone at ESO and to the Community Members that make these forums such a fun and informative place to visit.Edited by Mercutio on November 30, 2016 8:13AMThe problem with arguing with a jackass is that they never stop braying.
*
#DwemerLife29
. There will also be some human/elf/orc only things like the aurbical tattoos.