Official Discussion Thread for "ESO Welcomes Crown Crates"

FLambda

Banana wrote: »

So I'm assuming fire and air themes come after this one

No, I believe it's going by the Birthsigns. November is the Atronach (so it's a bit belated). December is, fittingly enough, the Thief.

Drayven_Indoril

I can't even get the Dark Brotherhood chest motif. I can't even find it to buy. So let me assure you my odds of getting the storm atronach wolf is zilch. Everything else does nothing for me. I hope this doesn't mean that they are trying to drum up money to stay afloat. I like this game and hope it stays around.

MarrazzMist

I'll buy 1 or 2 crates. I'll go to some quite place so no-one can't see me, open them, and get nice pile of potions 'cos RNG has never liked me.

For me crates are no biggie one way or another. Out of curiosity I may buy a few every season. I'm subscriber and have lots of unused crowns. I definitelly do not need any extra crates as a reward for subbing!

sebban

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

This is the official discussion thread for the blog article ESO Welcomes Crown Crates. This Thursday, we'll be introducing the first season of Crown Crates to the ESO Crown Store. Check out the article for all the details.

Worst news ever.

I guess I'll cancel my ESO plus now. Wont spend any more money on this game.

j3crow

Mercutio wrote: »

In the hope that the devs are watching this thread, I'd like to highlight two issues related to the Crown Crates and then offer a solution.

1) Consumer Goodwill. Much like 'political capital', consumer goodwill is a finite, if non tangible, resource. I would say you have burned through a good bit of your accumulated stock with the release of Crown Crates. While I suspect the spread sheet will show this as a good short term move, long term I think you cooked the golden goose.

2) Product Toxicity. Even if I saw something in the Crown Crates that I greatly desired, I would be too ashamed to show it to the public. So why bother?

Proffered Solution

1. Give one Crown Crate a month to subscribers of ESO Plus
2. Have Crown Crates drop in the game world. Something small like 0.3%.
3. Have one weekend a year where everything ever offered is put on sale in your Crown Shop.

If you did this you would reap the following benefits:

1. Plausible deniability for consumers who wish to spend a good deal on Crown Crates but are now too embarrassed to admit to doing so.
2. Increased value of the ESO Plus optional subscription.
3. The start of Consumer Good Will regeneration once people know that they will have the chance to buy the items they truly desire at some point in the future.
4. The Collector demographic, which I imagine is highly profitable, will be saved.

Lastly, there needs to be communication from on high. Moses needs to descend the mountain and tell us what is what. For example, if the company is in the red and this is a last ditch effort to keep it afloat I know all reasonable people would be much more sympathetic. In fact, I would buy some of the damn crates if that is what it took.

No disrespect is intended towards Ms. @ZOS_GinaBruno - she is a wonderful, charming community moderator who does an outstanding job. But we need a staff member higher up the chain to come to the forums and speak plainly. This would be seen as a sign of respect to the community and would help humanize your company in its hour of need. Silence is not your ally - it truly is exacerbating the situation. What people can imagine is usually far worse than the facts of the matter.

As for me, I plan to continue to support TESO with a sub and occasional direct purchase from the Crown Store. But as I am a Collector, i.e. I 'gotta have them all', and can no longer have them all through direct purchase, I will be spending much less.

I wish all of the dev team the absolute best. ESO is still the best MMORPG on the market, hands down. I wish I understood the motivation behind this strategy, though. You certainly don't "owe" me or any other consumer an explanation, but in doing so the medicine would be far easier to swallow.

Happy Holidays to everyone at ESO and to the Community Members that make these forums such a fun and informative place to visit.

This post says everything. I wish my own post about this subject was as articulate

sebban

Recremen wrote: »

Friendly reminder that adding in a gamble-for-content feature is exactly equivalent with ZOS saying "we are perfectly content with people spending money and not getting anything out of it". Every detail about the gambling boxes is a business psych trick to squeeze cash out of you without any promise that you're even getting the very cosmetic items that are supposed to keep this damn game afloat. The "gems" are just the latest in a list of refinements to make gambling more appealing. It is nothing more than fair banking, and is designed not even to let you actually buy what you wanted in the first place, but to increase the amount you are willing to spend before giving up.


We must fully reject gambling as a means of content delivery.

We must fully reject a gambling addition to a perfectly functional cash shop.

We must fully reject exclusive, high quality content being used to incentivize gambling.



We must embrace direct purchase of content as the only means of delivery.

We must embrace direct purchase as the only acceptable feature in a cash shop.

We must embrace honest, clear pricing for goods and services.

QFT

Abeille

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_JessicaFolsom

I'm pinging you because I like you.

I will repeat it again. PLEASE, reconsider the addition of non-themed collectibles as crate exclusives.
No, "they are just recolors" do not cut it. Them being just recolors is exactly why they SHOULDN'T go in the crates.
Look at the people making suggestions! You would have almost no opposition to the crates if you just made this change. DO NOT PUT NON-THEMED COLLECTIBLES IN THE CRATES.

If it is too late now, CONSIDER SELLING THEM DIRECTLY DURING THIS CRATE'S OFF-SEASON. If people want to gamble for them and try to get them for cheaper than they usually go for and before everybody else, they can go for the Atronach Crates.

Please, reconsider.

Tyrion87

I am sure of two things that will happen after release of the Crown Crates tomorrow:

1) People, who will spend many Crowns on the Crates and won't get anything what they wanted, will come to this forum just to start countless threads about how ZOS has cheated them and how they lost their money for nothing.

2) People, who will be lucky enough to get the exclusives, especially atro mounts, will not be using them or will not enjoy using them because of the fear that others will judge them as whales or spendthrifts.

Mark my words!

TheForseti

People, ZOS doesn't give two farts what you say. They're just waiting until the mountains of cash come in from these crates and bury their desks, and then they won't even be able to see their computer monitors. Make no mistake though, they will make absurd amounts of money from these crates. They're just following a proven formula that 17,000 other games have already cashed out on. Don't hate the player (ZOS), hate the game (monetary capitalism/profit motive).

Rosveen

TheForseti wrote: »

Don't hate the player (ZOS), hate the game (monetary capitalism/profit motive).

I can do both just fine. "But everybody does it!" isn't an excuse.

Docmandu

Next up, chests that require Crown Keys to unlock!

Abeille

Rosveen wrote: »

TheForseti wrote: »

Don't hate the player (ZOS), hate the game (monetary capitalism/profit motive).

I can do both just fine. "But everybody does it!" isn't an excuse.

This awakens my inner mom.

"If everybody was jumping off a bridge, would you too?" :P

Rosveen

Abeille wrote: »

Rosveen wrote: »

TheForseti wrote: »

Don't hate the player (ZOS), hate the game (monetary capitalism/profit motive).

I can do both just fine. "But everybody does it!" isn't an excuse.

This awakens my inner mom.

"If everybody was jumping off a bridge, would you too?" :P

What's with you and mom-like behavior today? :P

And no, I would not. I'd stand on the riverbank and shake my head at those madmen. Celebrating New Life by jumping into freezing water, them Nords be crazy.

Abeille

Rosveen wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

Rosveen wrote: »

TheForseti wrote: »

Don't hate the player (ZOS), hate the game (monetary capitalism/profit motive).

I can do both just fine. "But everybody does it!" isn't an excuse.

This awakens my inner mom.

"If everybody was jumping off a bridge, would you too?" :P

What's with you and mom-like behavior today? :P

And no, I would not. I'd stand on the riverbank and shake my head at those madmen. Celebrating New Life by jumping into freezing water, them Nords be crazy.

I started playing Overwatch and I only played as Mercy and Ana, so...

And yes, they are going to catch a cold! Stay inside and eat your chicken soup, dearie.

Rosveen

Abeille wrote: »

Rosveen wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

Rosveen wrote: »

TheForseti wrote: »

Don't hate the player (ZOS), hate the game (monetary capitalism/profit motive).

I can do both just fine. "But everybody does it!" isn't an excuse.

This awakens my inner mom.

"If everybody was jumping off a bridge, would you too?" :P

What's with you and mom-like behavior today? :P

And no, I would not. I'd stand on the riverbank and shake my head at those madmen. Celebrating New Life by jumping into freezing water, them Nords be crazy.

I started playing Overwatch and I only played as Mercy and Ana, so...

And yes, they are going to catch a cold! Stay inside and eat your chicken soup, dearie.

No chickens in sight, I'm afraid, but I have borscht. Pretty good for sore throat too.

Zyrudin

Mercutio wrote: »

In the hope that the devs are watching this thread, I'd like to highlight two issues related to the Crown Crates and then offer a solution.

1) Consumer Goodwill. Much like 'political capital', consumer goodwill is a finite, if non tangible, resource. I would say you have burned through a good bit of your accumulated stock with the release of Crown Crates. While I suspect the spread sheet will show this as a good short term move, long term I think you cooked the golden goose.

2) Product Toxicity. Even if I saw something in the Crown Crates that I greatly desired, I would be too ashamed to show it to the public. So why bother?

Proffered Solution

1. Give one Crown Crate a month to subscribers of ESO Plus
2. Have Crown Crates drop in the game world. Something small like 0.3%.
3. Have one weekend a year where everything ever offered is put on sale in your Crown Shop.

If you did this you would reap the following benefits:

1. Plausible deniability for consumers who wish to spend a good deal on Crown Crates but are now too embarrassed to admit to doing so.
2. Increased value of the ESO Plus optional subscription.
3. The start of Consumer Good Will regeneration once people know that they will have the chance to buy the items they truly desire at some point in the future.
4. The Collector demographic, which I imagine is highly profitable, will be saved.

Lastly, there needs to be communication from on high. Moses needs to descend the mountain and tell us what is what. For example, if the company is in the red and this is a last ditch effort to keep it afloat I know all reasonable people would be much more sympathetic. In fact, I would buy some of the damn crates if that is what it took.

No disrespect is intended towards Ms. @ZOS_GinaBruno - she is a wonderful, charming community moderator who does an outstanding job. But we need a staff member higher up the chain to come to the forums and speak plainly. This would be seen as a sign of respect to the community and would help humanize your company in its hour of need. Silence is not your ally - it truly is exacerbating the situation. What people can imagine is usually far worse than the facts of the matter.

As for me, I plan to continue to support TESO with a sub and occasional direct purchase from the Crown Store. But as I am a Collector, i.e. I 'gotta have them all', and can no longer have them all through direct purchase, I will be spending much less.

I wish all of the dev team the absolute best. ESO is still the best MMORPG on the market, hands down. I wish I understood the motivation behind this strategy, though. You certainly don't "owe" me or any other consumer an explanation, but in doing so the medicine would be far easier to swallow.

Happy Holidays to everyone at ESO and to the Community Members that make these forums such a fun and informative place to visit.

I would add to this two suggestions:

First:
Keep ESO Plus as it is, but add another modality, for example called ESO Plus Light or something of the sort, which is cheaper, still has access to all DLC, but has less extra crowns and a limited craft bag (won't suggest a number).
It would increase the income for the ongoing development of the game and give a chance for players who may be hesitant to commit to a subscription to try the experience of DLC and craft bag usage for a cheaper deal. I am sure most of them would eventually upgrade to ESO Plus.

Second:
Regularly show teasers and hints towards the next development stage in the game. Follow a discipline of communication with the community about what is coming next, even if you want to hold the secrets on what it actually is.
Ex: A screenshot of Vvardenfell without naming the area and teasing us with some of the features of what's next to come.

The first suggestion will revitalize your subscription base. The second will keep people interested, because they know that you are still developing ESO

Kendaric

Abeille wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_JessicaFolsom

I'm pinging you because I like you.

I will repeat it again. PLEASE, reconsider the addition of non-themed collectibles as crate exclusives.
No, "they are just recolors" do not cut it. Them being just recolors is exactly why they SHOULDN'T go in the crates.
Look at the people making suggestions! You would have almost no opposition to the crates if you just made this change. DO NOT PUT NON-THEMED COLLECTIBLES IN THE CRATES.

If it is too late now, CONSIDER SELLING THEM DIRECTLY DURING THIS CRATE'S OFF-SEASON. If people want to gamble for them and try to get them for cheaper than they usually go for and before everybody else, they can go for the Atronach Crates.

Please, reconsider.

Not to mention that several, if not most, new items are not "just recolors", if they stick to the PTS implementation.

User_Name

Without having paid too much attention to the debate, I feared that crown crates would contain a set amount of gold which would cause inflation and exclusive non-cosmetic gear.

If Crown Crates solely contain cosmetic stuff and consumables comparable to what's in the game (e.g. no tri-stat food with double bonus etc.), what is the issue?

Jim_Pipp

It's so nice to see people really trying to offer solutions to make crown crates work for both ZOS and the players.

I haven'the noticed anyone mention the simplest solution (imho).

Scale the gems you get refunded up to the point that you can guarantee 4000/5000 crowns worth of crates could always return enough gems to get your choice of apex mount.

Some people will gamble and get lucky and get their reward sooner, most of us would keep a few items so have to buy more crates to get the item we want. Some people will be disciplined and buy x number of crates, turn it all into gems and get their mount for 4000/5000 crowns. It would still make a shed load of cash, but reduce the rng related despair.

Enodoc

User_Name wrote: »

If Crown Crates solely contain cosmetic stuff and consumables comparable to what's in the game (e.g. no tri-stat food with double bonus etc.), what is the issue?

Dev resources over time being filtered more and more into Crates, and not into content. Also, a bunch of mounts/pets being exclusive to Crates despite the fact that many people would buy them if they were released separately.

Yuls

Enodoc wrote: »

Dev resources over time being filtered more and more into Crates, and not into content.

Of course it would take exactly the same time and ressources to make new things for the "normal" crown store. Not to mention that there's different departments, and it's highly unlikely that the combat team is now puzzling some new costumes together. (Well, otherwise it would explain some of the costume issues, at least...)

User_Name

Enodoc wrote: »

Dev resources over time being filtered more and more into Crates, and not into content. Also, a bunch of mounts/pets being exclusive to Crates despite the fact that many people would buy them if they were released separately.

Well okay, I agree that it's a problem if dev time is allocated to this when the game still has a lot of huge issues, especially in PVP where it seems like more issues are added, rather than old ones fixed.

I can also agree that gambling is unsympathetic, and that Zenimax uses knowledge of consumers and "whales" to exploit their weakness and generate a profit. But what company doesn't exploit its consumers, through false "optimistic" advertising etc.? Lotteries are as popular as ever, and when have you ever had a McDonald's burger that looked even remotely like the one on the photo? To me, these are conditions of modern consumerist society, and it's up to the individual to ward oneself against impulsive desires to consume, even though there are so many companies screaming at you to buy their products all day long. Gambling is unsympathetic business practice, but I don't think it's going to end any time soon anywhere in the world, so ultimately it would seem the sensible solution is to start to not care at all what random cosmetic junk money can buy, even if your neighbor just got a cat with cooler lightnings than yours. In fact, when you see that "cool" lightning cat, you might actually start to feel a little sorry for the guy for not being able to resist the urge to buy useless crap, and in turn that might make you question your own desires to get one too. The only value these items have is the one you choose to ascribe to it, seeing that the items themselves have no functional purpose whatsoever.

The gambling aspect might actually be illegal in some countries if we weren't talking about digital assets/prizes, but at the end of the day consumers can choose not to buy. Crown Store items are not a necessity, they are solely vanity items; and while it sure is exploitation to take advantage of a select group of consumers' weakness, I do think that the ones that have an uncontrollable desire to have it all are 1) a minority, 2) the ones with the actual issue, no offense meant. And I do think Zenimax is well aware of that when taking advantage of that specific weakness for their own monetary gain, and it *is* bad, but not something that actually has an effect on anything in-game. As such it wont affect me at all, but yeah of course I feel sorry that they do this to the ones who feel they must have everything that these crates can possibly contain, and it does reflect negatively on Zenimax as a company, but the game is hardly coming to an end because of it, really.

If crown crates had contained gold I would have been furious, but that's an entirely different thing. This is "just" exploitation of a narrow group of consumers, but it wont affect the game as such in my view.

Enodoc

Yuls wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

Dev resources over time being filtered more and more into Crates, and not into content.

Of course it would take exactly the same time and ressources to make new things for the "normal" crown store. Not to mention that there's different departments, and it's highly unlikely that the combat team is now puzzling some new costumes together. (Well, otherwise it would explain some of the costume issues, at least...)

Indeed. But the question was "what's the issue", and without finding someone's very detailed post, that's was the best I could come up with In the long run, I think it's that the money will go in that direction, meaning the combat team writing team, etc will just get smaller over time.

NewBlacksmurf

Again... @ZOS_GinaBruno your new links to every article since October is not accessible using the iPhone due to the redirects.
Possibly you all could post the actual article here with the link

Alucardo

Woeler wrote: »

So while I am not against any of this. It does take quite the nerve using the word "welcomes" in the title of this article. Really? Does it look like it is being welcomed? If I'd get such a welcome somewhere I'd be sure not to let the door hit me on the way out.

I have defended these crates, and I still don't really care they are there. But with such an outcry on the forums you dare say they are welcomed? If you want to make the impression that you do not read what your community thinks at all, well, congratulations, you hit it spot on.

Your marketing strategy keeps baffling me. It's almost an insult.

I had to log two accounts just to give this comment more than one agree. Worth it.

Wollust

Still sad that those amazing mounts are in those *** crates

Erlex

Fudly_budly

Hey. I sure didn't buy the big $$$ tiger mount and won't spend a penny/crown here either but I would like to extend a big "Thank You!!!" to all of you who will be whipping out the CC. Keep those lights on ZOS and quarterly earnings up.
I did finally buy Orsinium when it was 75% off using my discounted crowns. The DLC cost me about $3.20 which makes up for the "bait and switch" you did with the Thieves Troves.
All-in-all I got a year of gaming for about $69 and still have 5000 crowns.
Not to bad. Cheers!

Tyrion87

Wollust wrote: »

Still sad that those amazing mounts are in those *** crates

Yes, that is the problem. If they were released for direct purchase, I would even consider buying them all (and I know many would do the same which means profit for ZOS).

But since they are well guarded by RNGesus, I won't have it cause I won't buy a single crown crate for sure. Never.

NBrookus

Zyrudin wrote: »

First:
Keep ESO Plus as it is, but add another modality, for example called ESO Plus Light or something of the sort, which is cheaper, still has access to all DLC, but has less extra crowns and a limited craft bag (won't suggest a number).
It would increase the income for the ongoing development of the game and give a chance for players who may be hesitant to commit to a subscription to try the experience of DLC and craft bag usage for a cheaper deal. I am sure most of them would eventually upgrade to ESO Plus.

Second:
Regularly show teasers and hints towards the next development stage in the game. Follow a discipline of communication with the community about what is coming next, even if you want to hold the secrets on what it actually is.
Ex: A screenshot of Vvardenfell without naming the area and teasing us with some of the features of what's next to come.

The first suggestion will revitalize your subscription base. The second will keep people interested, because they know that you are still developing ESO

I'd go the other direction. <$15/month is very cheap for the sub. Movie night for me & hubbie costs more than both our subs. Instead, make an ESO Max subscription and add Crown Gems or extra crowns or a housing upgrade or similar.

100% agreement on your second point. Surprise is all well and good, but teasers would be great. Look at the excitement the random patch notes @ZOS_GinaBruno posts generates.