What do you think of Crown Crates? -- New Poll for PTS Implementation

snakester320

Negative: I have NOT tested the crates, and I dislike the idea/direction and/or I dislike what I have read.

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

Eiagra wrote: »

Miaura wrote: »

I think ZOS should really stop here and think they have a very special kind of community, like they have said they have, that they have said they want to have, that they want to cater for and sort of "work with" in developing future content, yes?
@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_KaiSchober @ZOS_JessicaFolsom

A very good point, this.

I've noticed that things have gone very, very quiet in regards to this feature and its news. It should be noted that doesn't mean the players have stopped being concerned about it... but I'm wondering what the developers are doing at this point in regards to the feature, since it seems there has essentially been no further communication since Sept 27th on the official discussion thread. I guess there's still a lot of work being done internally.

Its the old "Stick your head in the sand" tactic. The only other tactic for a generally hated feature/announcement is to keep blasting away with your ads and pretend all is fine.

We'll see if this approach to handling negative feedback is going to work for them. Whats unfortunate for those of us against it is that they dont need it to be "widely" accepted amongst the player population for it to be widely successful. All they need is the demographic theyre hoping to score with with these crates. The whales.

As Ive said elsewhere. The targets of this new business model isnt to get everyone to open their wallets and spend hundreds of dollars. Its to get the few that can easily outspend the many to open their wallets. The idea is that 1 player can outspend X amount of average spending players. And at the end of the week. month, quarter and year their profits will blow up.

All well and good but there profits off the whales will eventually dry up and I'm sure decent content cannot be funded by the whales alone and how long before ppl just turn around and say " really you going to push crap at me that has 2 dungeons and some gear" like shadows of the hist..as sad as it will be to see the likes of this game die ( and it will with these disgusting methods ) I can't help but laugh and count down the time due to these stupid choices made by ZOS and certain marketing ppl ..

BuddyAces

snakester320 wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

Eiagra wrote: »

Miaura wrote: »

I think ZOS should really stop here and think they have a very special kind of community, like they have said they have, that they have said they want to have, that they want to cater for and sort of "work with" in developing future content, yes?
@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_KaiSchober @ZOS_JessicaFolsom

A very good point, this.

I've noticed that things have gone very, very quiet in regards to this feature and its news. It should be noted that doesn't mean the players have stopped being concerned about it... but I'm wondering what the developers are doing at this point in regards to the feature, since it seems there has essentially been no further communication since Sept 27th on the official discussion thread. I guess there's still a lot of work being done internally.

Its the old "Stick your head in the sand" tactic. The only other tactic for a generally hated feature/announcement is to keep blasting away with your ads and pretend all is fine.

We'll see if this approach to handling negative feedback is going to work for them. Whats unfortunate for those of us against it is that they dont need it to be "widely" accepted amongst the player population for it to be widely successful. All they need is the demographic theyre hoping to score with with these crates. The whales.

As Ive said elsewhere. The targets of this new business model isnt to get everyone to open their wallets and spend hundreds of dollars. Its to get the few that can easily outspend the many to open their wallets. The idea is that 1 player can outspend X amount of average spending players. And at the end of the week. month, quarter and year their profits will blow up.

All well and good but there profits off the whales will eventually dry up and I'm sure decent content cannot be funded by the whales alone and how long before ppl just turn around and say " really you going to push crap at me that has 2 dungeons and some gear" like shadows of the hist..as sad as it will be to see the likes of this game die ( and it will with these disgusting methods ) I can't help but laugh and count down the time due to these stupid choices made by ZOS and certain marketing ppl ..

And that's what happens all the damn time. Less money is actually bought in over the long run because of the amount of people that do leave. It's a cycle that happens in every single MMO that does this. Many of us on the forums have been trying to say this is exactly what happens EVERY TIME.

Elsonso

Negative: I have tested the crates, and I do not want this feature to be implemented in the game.

So. 2.6.9! Today's patch introduces phase 1 of the Crown Crate introduction.

The new Sooper Dooper Ambrosia is out. The one to create an in-game version of the new OP Crown Experience Scroll. This is one of the prizes to get people to purchase the Crown Crates, and they said they would be looking into what changes they needed to put into the game to allow crafting similar items.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

• We will also take another look at Crown Crate potions, food, XP scrolls, etc. with an eye towards boosting their effectiveness and/or duration. This may entail us adding new recipes to allow crafters to make similar items.

Insane grind for that in-game version, though. Might as well have just said it is only available once per year, on a random day, only at the stroke of midnight, from a random vendor.


I admit that I did have a moment when I thought that "Apothecary’s Parcels" were a renamed Crown Crate.

JimT722

Negative: I have NOT tested the crates, and I dislike the idea/direction and/or I dislike what I have read.

lordrichter wrote: »

So. 2.6.9! Today's patch introduces phase 1 of the Crown Crate introduction.

The new Sooper Dooper Ambrosia is out. The one to create an in-game version of the new OP Crown Experience Scroll. This is one of the prizes to get people to purchase the Crown Crates, and they said they would be looking into what changes they needed to put into the game to allow crafting similar items.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

• We will also take another look at Crown Crate potions, food, XP scrolls, etc. with an eye towards boosting their effectiveness and/or duration. This may entail us adding new recipes to allow crafters to make similar items.

Insane grind for that in-game version, though. Might as well have just said it is only available once per year, on a random day, only at the stroke of midnight, from a random vendor.


I admit that I did have a moment when I thought that "Apothecary’s Parcels" were a renamed Crown Crate.

They are lucky I have loved and played The elder scrolls series to death since Morrowind. I just keep coming back. Their decisions with their marketing direction has really soured my respect for them as a company. I suspect they will ruin their ability to release quality content, and that in time will kill this game for me. Or it will go free to play, that will kill it just as effectively.

People, say no to crown crates. It's not worth it.

jeevin

Negative: I have NOT tested the crates, and I dislike the idea/direction and/or I dislike what I have read.

JimT722 wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

So. 2.6.9! Today's patch introduces phase 1 of the Crown Crate introduction.

The new Sooper Dooper Ambrosia is out. The one to create an in-game version of the new OP Crown Experience Scroll. This is one of the prizes to get people to purchase the Crown Crates, and they said they would be looking into what changes they needed to put into the game to allow crafting similar items.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

• We will also take another look at Crown Crate potions, food, XP scrolls, etc. with an eye towards boosting their effectiveness and/or duration. This may entail us adding new recipes to allow crafters to make similar items.

Insane grind for that in-game version, though. Might as well have just said it is only available once per year, on a random day, only at the stroke of midnight, from a random vendor.


I admit that I did have a moment when I thought that "Apothecary’s Parcels" were a renamed Crown Crate.

They are lucky I have loved and played The elder scrolls series to death since Morrowind. I just keep coming back. Their decisions with their marketing direction has really soured my respect for them as a company. I suspect they will ruin their ability to release quality content, and that in time will kill this game for me. Or it will go free to play, that will kill it just as effectively.

People, say no to crown crates. It's not worth it.

ESO marketing is souring my whole experience with the game. I hate seeing Crowns, Crown Gems and frickin store advertising. I pay to play already. The Crown Store has taken over the game. I'm back playing through Skyrim again as the remaster has rekindled my love for the single player Elder Scrolls games. There's still so many Elder Scroll tropes missing from ESO and the scale and immersion is way better in the single player games.

Hamiltonmath

Neutral: I have NOT tested the crates, and my feelings are neutral, noncommital, or do not apply.

Guys they have to make some money somewhere. I won't be purchasing them, but they don't even offer a competitive advantage. Everything is cosmetic. Hell, they even are putting the aetheric ambrosia in the game. Honestly looking forward to finding something new.

JimT722

Negative: I have NOT tested the crates, and I dislike the idea/direction and/or I dislike what I have read.

Hamiltonmath wrote: »

Guys they have to make some money somewhere. I won't be purchasing them, but they don't even offer a competitive advantage. Everything is cosmetic. Hell, they even are putting the aetheric ambrosia in the game. Honestly looking forward to finding something new.

Spending hundreds of dollars wading through crap for the few items you want. Money well spent? These are of horrible value, and are made to psychologically manipulate people into overspending.

They aren't abandoning the direct price market for the consumer. Don't be fooled.

Elsonso

Negative: I have tested the crates, and I do not want this feature to be implemented in the game.

Hamiltonmath wrote: »

Guys they have to make some money somewhere. I won't be purchasing them, but they don't even offer a competitive advantage. Everything is cosmetic. Hell, they even are putting the aetheric ambrosia in the game. Honestly looking forward to finding something new.

Saying that they have to make money, does not imply that anything they do to make money is OK. Why don't they sell Mary Kay Cosmetics in the Crown Store, since it is all cosmetic?

Of course they have to make money. No one reasonably thinks that they should not be making money. A lot of people, myself included, think they are so lacking in the ability to make money that Crown Crates looks like a wonderful idea to them.

Hamiltonmath

Neutral: I have NOT tested the crates, and my feelings are neutral, noncommital, or do not apply.

JimT722 wrote: »

Hamiltonmath wrote: »

Guys they have to make some money somewhere. I won't be purchasing them, but they don't even offer a competitive advantage. Everything is cosmetic. Hell, they even are putting the aetheric ambrosia in the game. Honestly looking forward to finding something new.

Spending hundreds of dollars wading through crap for the few items you want. Money well spent? These are of horrible value, and are made to psychologically manipulate people into overspending.

They aren't abandoning the direct price market for the consumer. Don't be fooled.

So, they are exploiting people's gambling issues? Sounds like the people need to get some help.

Hamiltonmath

Neutral: I have NOT tested the crates, and my feelings are neutral, noncommital, or do not apply.

JimT722 wrote: »

Hamiltonmath wrote: »

Guys they have to make some money somewhere. I won't be purchasing them, but they don't even offer a competitive advantage. Everything is cosmetic. Hell, they even are putting the aetheric ambrosia in the game. Honestly looking forward to finding something new.

Spending hundreds of dollars wading through crap for the few items you want. Money well spent? These are of horrible value, and are made to psychologically manipulate people into overspending.

They aren't abandoning the direct price market for the consumer. Don't be fooled.

And who are you to say they are of horrible value?

JimT722

Negative: I have NOT tested the crates, and I dislike the idea/direction and/or I dislike what I have read.

Hamiltonmath wrote: »

JimT722 wrote: »

Hamiltonmath wrote: »

Guys they have to make some money somewhere. I won't be purchasing them, but they don't even offer a competitive advantage. Everything is cosmetic. Hell, they even are putting the aetheric ambrosia in the game. Honestly looking forward to finding something new.

Spending hundreds of dollars wading through crap for the few items you want. Money well spent? These are of horrible value, and are made to psychologically manipulate people into overspending.

They aren't abandoning the direct price market for the consumer. Don't be fooled.

So, they are exploiting people's gambling issues? Sounds like the people need to get some help.

At a casino they will gladly cash in your pay check. Just like ZOS, casinos are counting on this level of irresponsibility. This is a Video Game not a casino.

Will most be this stupid. Of course not. Still don't condone it.

UrQuan

Negative: I have tested the crates, and I do not want this feature to be implemented in the game.

JimT722 wrote: »

Hamiltonmath wrote: »

JimT722 wrote: »

Hamiltonmath wrote: »

Guys they have to make some money somewhere. I won't be purchasing them, but they don't even offer a competitive advantage. Everything is cosmetic. Hell, they even are putting the aetheric ambrosia in the game. Honestly looking forward to finding something new.

Spending hundreds of dollars wading through crap for the few items you want. Money well spent? These are of horrible value, and are made to psychologically manipulate people into overspending.

They aren't abandoning the direct price market for the consumer. Don't be fooled.

So, they are exploiting people's gambling issues? Sounds like the people need to get some help.

At a casino they will gladly cash in your pay check. Just like ZOS, casinos are counting on this level of irresponsibility. This is a Video Game not a casino.

Will most be this stupid. Of course not. Still don't condone it.

Except that casinos are more ethical, because casinos will tell you the odds.

WhiteCoatSyndrome

Negative: I have NOT tested the crates, and I dislike the idea/direction and/or I dislike what I have read.

UrQuan wrote: »

Except that casinos are more ethical, because casinos will tell you the odds.

Also, one goes to the casino specifically to gamble; that's the point of that establishment. I don't know about anyone else but I joined ESO to play in Tamriel, not to gamble. Playing in Tamriel should be the point of THIS establishment.

JimT722

Negative: I have NOT tested the crates, and I dislike the idea/direction and/or I dislike what I have read.

The very stupid dye stamp system just made sense to me. The stupidity that are dye stamps came with her from SWTOR, another game she worked on. They are different but there are similarities. They both suck in my opinion. Can't wait to see what's next.

Eiagra

Negative: I have NOT tested the crates, and I dislike the idea/direction and/or I dislike what I have read.

lordrichter wrote: »

So. 2.6.9! Today's patch introduces phase 1 of the Crown Crate introduction.

The new Sooper Dooper Ambrosia is out. The one to create an in-game version of the new OP Crown Experience Scroll. This is one of the prizes to get people to purchase the Crown Crates, and they said they would be looking into what changes they needed to put into the game to allow crafting similar items.

I noticed that, also. Kinda groaned inwardly. As someone who's made a sort of goal to eventually 100% recipes, having the Ambrosia recipe was a big chunk I didn't want to worry about again. Now not only do I have to get the stupid recipe again, I have to get some upgrade for it so I can learn the uber version.

Instantly, the old recipe has become obsolete.

WhiteCoatSyndrome

Negative: I have NOT tested the crates, and I dislike the idea/direction and/or I dislike what I have read.

Eiagra wrote: »

Instantly, the old recipe has become obsolete.

Second your sentiments @Eiagra. There is also the added 'bonus' that new players who want the recipe will ALSO have to go through that horrid Provisioning Writ grind twice. And they're the ones likely to need/want it! I know my CP 600+ characters don't...

AlienSlof

Negative: I have tested the crates, and I do not want this feature to be implemented in the game.

I don't need more xp, so I'm likely not going to bother with it at all. Just as I'm not going to buy scam crates. I don't need any of that junk that will fill up my inventory, just on the off-chance that I get something shiny. I love shiny things, but I can live without them.

EQBallzz

Negative: I have NOT tested the crates, and I dislike the idea/direction and/or I dislike what I have read.

wayfarerx wrote: »

ZOS_MattFiror wrote:

The Elder Scrolls Online was designed and developed to be a premium experience: hundreds of hours of gameplay, tons of depth and features, professional customer support – and a commitment to have ongoing content at regular intervals after launch.”

Source.

That's why I joined the beta, that's why I'm still here today. One of my favorite franchises, a premium experience, an escape from all the F2P-cash-shop-gamble-box nonsense that plagues gaming.

And yet here we are.

Anyone who's played an MMO before knows that, eventually, the developer will jump the shark and screw the game up and it will be time to move on. I'm happy that ESO has gone this long without turning me away, but I had hoped I would be here much longer. There is still so much of Tamriel to explore.

However this last week has been the first time in three years that I've actually made plans for what to do if I need to cancel my sub. I've got some crowns saved up, I could pick up the existing DLCs and possibly a couple more. I could still log in and hang out with friends. I could live without the crafting bag. I could take my money and start working through the backlog of games that have come out recently that I skipped or didn't play much because I was playing ESO.

I don't want to leave, I like it here, but it's going to be really hard justifying sending money to a company that intends to base it's business model off impulsive sales to uninformed customers. It's not honest. I'm not sure how I'm supposed to tell my son "No, those F2P cash shop games are a scam, they will only rip you off," and then turn around and log into ESO: Ethics Violation Unlimited.

We'll see how it goes in the end, but I'm concerned that this is the end for me.

I couldn't agree with you more and I'm way ahead of you. I started ESO in early beta and tested the game religiously. I must have played the first 15 levels a dozen times and it never got old because I loved the game. Like you, I took what they said seriously and felt it was something that set the game apart from most other MMOs on the market that were embracing F2P/B2P and I was looking for something different. I bought a CE of the game and paid a sub until the cash shop debacle was implemented.

I have already left long ago because they have ceased to be the game they said it would be. The crown boxes are merely conclusive evidence that the game has long since jumped the shark and is on the path to it's demise. It's pretty sad because there was so much about the game that was good. Moved to P99 for classic EQ experience and finding that even with dated graphics..EQ is still king of the MMO genre. They just got so much right..and with P99 you don't even have to pay anything or deal with obnoxious cash shops or casino boxes. You want an item in game for stats or cosmetics you go find it in game or buy from another player (with in game currency). What a concept.

Taternater

I opened 105 boxes and got 2 storm mounts and 910 gems that included gems from converting consumables. Regarding the odds, from that sample the odds of getting a storm mount is 2% and one acquires gems at a rate that matches that 2% since 910 is enough for 2 storm mounts.

Actually many games with cash shops have crates with random stuff in them and are doing well. WoW had something similar with real life trading card packs that would randomly have a code for a random mount or pet in game. WoW's still going strong, and so are several other games with such items.

Recremen

Negative: I have tested the crates, and I do not want this feature to be implemented in the game.

Taternater wrote: »

I opened 105 boxes and got 2 storm mounts and 910 gems that included gems from converting consumables. Regarding the odds, from that sample the odds of getting a storm mount is 2% and one acquires gems at a rate that matches that 2% since 910 is enough for 2 storm mounts.

Actually many games with cash shops have crates with random stuff in them and are doing well. WoW had something similar with real life trading card packs that would randomly have a code for a random mount or pet in game. WoW's still going strong, and so are several other games with such items.

Other games doing it doesn't make it right, especially for this game which markets itself on customization, and for which cosmetics are one of the chief moneymakers. Things should be offered in the store only, all of this gambling is incredibly customer-unfriendly.

Delta1038

Neutral: I have tested the crates, and my feelings are neutral, noncommital, or do not apply.

More or less indifferent, I think they are just fine and they work. I am fine if they keep them and grow or if they got rid of them. I spent some money on them, liked what I got, didn't cry about not getting a storm mount. Might spend some more on them later if I feel like it but as it stands nothing jumps out at me. So all in all I am fine with them.

JKorr

Negative: I have tested the crates, and I do not want this feature to be implemented in the game.

Taternater wrote: »

I opened 105 boxes and got 2 storm mounts and 910 gems that included gems from converting consumables. Regarding the odds, from that sample the odds of getting a storm mount is 2% and one acquires gems at a rate that matches that 2% since 910 is enough for 2 storm mounts.

Actually many games with cash shops have crates with random stuff in them and are doing well. WoW had something similar with real life trading card packs that would randomly have a code for a random mount or pet in game. WoW's still going strong, and so are several other games with such items.

Read the threads where people are tracking what items were received and the odds they're attempting to track. You were lucky.

EQBallzz

Negative: I have NOT tested the crates, and I dislike the idea/direction and/or I dislike what I have read.

JKorr wrote: »

Taternater wrote: »

I opened 105 boxes and got 2 storm mounts and 910 gems that included gems from converting consumables. Regarding the odds, from that sample the odds of getting a storm mount is 2% and one acquires gems at a rate that matches that 2% since 910 is enough for 2 storm mounts.

Actually many games with cash shops have crates with random stuff in them and are doing well. WoW had something similar with real life trading card packs that would randomly have a code for a random mount or pet in game. WoW's still going strong, and so are several other games with such items.

Read the threads where people are tracking what items were received and the odds they're attempting to track. You were lucky.

I think many people are missing the bigger picture. Some people make a distinction between a cash shop where you can straight up buy items and a cash shop that sells casino boxes and forces you to gamble. There really isn't much of a distinction IMO. Casino boxes are nothing more than a natural evolution of the cash shop.

When a game company starts offering players the option to circumvent the game itself for cash..they have already bought into the concept that the gameplay is secondary to cash flow. Once the cash flow is the primary directive it's only natural they would want to increase that cash flow with gambling. This is the devious nature of these cash shop games. The fact that "WoW does it, too" doesn't justify it.

The next thing to expect after casino boxes (and is already in full swing) will be content that just centers around more and more cash shop purchases and gambling. No longer can you expect good, compelling gameplay or content unless it comes engineered to make you spend or gamble more and more money even if you pay for ESO plus.

So this entire system is backwards IMO. Instead of having a compelling game that makes you want to pay for it like subs used to do..you get a shell of a game that you have to spend ever increasing amounts of money on to make compelling. Spoiler alert..it never will be.

Elsonso

Negative: I have tested the crates, and I do not want this feature to be implemented in the game.

EQBallzz wrote: »

So this entire system is backwards IMO. Instead of having a compelling game that makes you want to pay for it like subs used to do..you get a shell of a game that you have to spend ever increasing amounts of money on to make compelling. Spoiler alert..it never will be.

This is my biggest concern. While some people are comfortable and shrug this off with comments that include words like "customization" and "optional", or even prefer games that do it, the bottom line for me is what you said.

My feeling is that a good game studio has the resources, talent, and business insight to make a game that can generate revenue. They can have a cash shop just to have a cash shop. For all of the other studios, it is cash shop or go home.

I am not completely sure that it is possible for any studio to do this with a new game, given the current nature of the gaming market. ZOS managed to make a new game that was pretty good, but it was not that good, and this did nothing but demonstrate that ZOS is definitely not the studio to prove it can be done.

Edit (last para got lost): What concerns me is that a game I like is trapped with a studio that I do not think has what it takes to make the game better. My fear is that we will quickly see it start to coast, only to be overshadowed by a new "average MMO with Cash Shop" game from ZOS in a couple years.

theher0not

Negative: I have tested the crates, and I do not want this feature to be implemented in the game.

I had 600 crowns to spare so I tried one, it is not as bad as I thought but it is still awefull.

Esquire1980g_ESO

Negative: I have NOT tested the crates, and I dislike the idea/direction and/or I dislike what I have read.

lordrichter wrote: »

EQBallzz wrote: »

So this entire system is backwards IMO. Instead of having a compelling game that makes you want to pay for it like subs used to do..you get a shell of a game that you have to spend ever increasing amounts of money on to make compelling. Spoiler alert..it never will be.

This is my biggest concern. While some people are comfortable and shrug this off with comments that include words like "customization" and "optional", or even prefer games that do it, the bottom line for me is what you said.

My feeling is that a good game studio has the resources, talent, and business insight to make a game that can generate revenue. They can have a cash shop just to have a cash shop. For all of the other studios, it is cash shop or go home.

I am not completely sure that it is possible for any studio to do this with a new game, given the current nature of the gaming market. ZOS managed to make a new game that was pretty good, but it was not that good, and this did nothing but demonstrate that ZOS is definitely not the studio to prove it can be done.

Edit (last para got lost): What concerns me is that a game I like is trapped with a studio that I do not think has what it takes to make the game better. My fear is that we will quickly see it start to coast, only to be overshadowed by a new "average MMO with Cash Shop" game from ZOS in a couple years.

The problem is with all of this is, sooooo many studios are doing this now that it seems natural to anyone who hasn't played MMORPGs as long as we have. Therefore, it's now the accepted norm with these newer players. /sarcasm, "hey casuals can catch up by just dropping some cash, so no harm, no foul".

People keep saying that it's not P2W just because it doesn't affect the PART of the game they play. I strongly disagree even with cosmetics. It may not be P2W with PVP but it sure is with collectors and anyone who RPs. Funny how a lot of MMORPG players miss that RP part of the name, itself. And that RP part is just as important to a part of the playerbase with P2W items are to the PVP part of a playerbase. And, the RP, cosmetic, PVE part of the playerbase dwarfs those that stick to PVP and are the most vocal about P2W.

Doesn't matter anyway as studios find out they can sell P2W with the cosmetic portion of the game, they'll figure it out sooner or later that the PVP players will, and have, go this route as well. They mostly all have and this one will follow suit as well.

Players need to figure out that MMORPGs are changing. The studios are going to cash grabs/gambling for pixels and the players are making private servers and games to counter. EQ makes that statement very clearly in his post. As more and more players go to these private servers, then the studios almost have to counter with more and more cash grabs/gambling. It's a never ending battle for "truth, justice, and the American way".

I, too have went to a private server, only I started my own to make darn good and sure that I NEVER see these things in that game. As for studios thinking their dev teams are going to pull them thru due to shear numbers, I know that we have what would be TWO (2) SOE complete expansions on our test server right now. This includes 2 new planets that dwarf the areas in these games, 4 new dungeons, 9 new species (for players), 3 more professions added to the 32 that there are now in a complete skill box game, added PVP opportunities, and many other additions, ALL FOR COMPLETLY FREE, no lockboxes, no subs, no nothing.

And the sad part of this is? Gaming studios have done this to themselves.

Prof_Bawbag

Esquire1980g_ESO wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

EQBallzz wrote: »

So this entire system is backwards IMO. Instead of having a compelling game that makes you want to pay for it like subs used to do..you get a shell of a game that you have to spend ever increasing amounts of money on to make compelling. Spoiler alert..it never will be.

This is my biggest concern. While some people are comfortable and shrug this off with comments that include words like "customization" and "optional", or even prefer games that do it, the bottom line for me is what you said.

My feeling is that a good game studio has the resources, talent, and business insight to make a game that can generate revenue. They can have a cash shop just to have a cash shop. For all of the other studios, it is cash shop or go home.

I am not completely sure that it is possible for any studio to do this with a new game, given the current nature of the gaming market. ZOS managed to make a new game that was pretty good, but it was not that good, and this did nothing but demonstrate that ZOS is definitely not the studio to prove it can be done.

Edit (last para got lost): What concerns me is that a game I like is trapped with a studio that I do not think has what it takes to make the game better. My fear is that we will quickly see it start to coast, only to be overshadowed by a new "average MMO with Cash Shop" game from ZOS in a couple years.

The problem is with all of this is, sooooo many studios are doing this now that it seems natural to anyone who hasn't played MMORPGs as long as we have. Therefore, it's now the accepted norm with these newer players. /sarcasm, "hey casuals can catch up by just dropping some cash, so no harm, no foul".

People keep saying that it's not P2W just because it doesn't affect the PART of the game they play. I strongly disagree even with cosmetics. It may not be P2W with PVP but it sure is with collectors and anyone who RPs. Funny how a lot of MMORPG players miss that RP part of the name, itself. And that RP part is just as important to a part of the playerbase with P2W items are to the PVP part of a playerbase. And, the RP, cosmetic, PVE part of the playerbase dwarfs those that stick to PVP and are the most vocal about P2W.

Doesn't matter anyway as studios find out they can sell P2W with the cosmetic portion of the game, they'll figure it out sooner or later that the PVP players will, and have, go this route as well. They mostly all have and this one will follow suit as well.

Players need to figure out that MMORPGs are changing. The studios are going to cash grabs/gambling for pixels and the players are making private servers and games to counter. EQ makes that statement very clearly in his post. As more and more players go to these private servers, then the studios almost have to counter with more and more cash grabs/gambling. It's a never ending battle for "truth, justice, and the American way".

I, too have went to a private server, only I started my own to make darn good and sure that I NEVER see these things in that game. As for studios thinking their dev teams are going to pull them thru due to shear numbers, I know that we have what would be TWO (2) SOE complete expansions on our test server right now. This includes 2 new planets that dwarf the areas in these games, 4 new dungeons, 9 new species (for players), 3 more professions added to the 32 that there are now in a complete skill box game, added PVP opportunities, and many other additions, ALL FOR COMPLETLY FREE, no lockboxes, no subs, no nothing.

And the sad part of this is? Gaming studios have done this to themselves.

I'm not disputing anything you've wrote prior to this, but i have no idea why you'd use the part I've highlighted as some sort of stick to beat gaming studios over the head with. What people do in their free time is usually done because they earn the resources to do those things elsewhere i.e. having a job. There are people out there in other lines of work that charge for a service that others can do small scale for next to nothing because it's a hobby for the latter party. Hell, someone could randomly just go out in their car and ferry others around FOR FREE in their spare time because they enjoy the company and driving. Doesn't mean proper Taxi drivers are gouging people. Do I think gaming studios are now in the habit of fleecing their customers? Yes. Do I think everything they do is morally right? No, but by the same token they need to charge something otherwise the business goes under, no one is able to feed themselves and a host of other obvious nonsense.

Don't take the above that I agree with the pricing policy and some of the selling methods most games now employ, because i don't, but there are things they need to charge us for. Like those 4 dungeons you highlighted that are free. Devs just can't make that particular content and charge nothing. Rather than give you a list of what I think is worth my cash, it would just be easier to say I agree with everything CD Projekt Red have had to say on the matter. I also understand MMO devs have to charge for items that the likes of CD Projekt Red wouldn't charge us for as to maintain the servers and keep paying their staff.

DYSEQTA

Negative: I have NOT tested the crates, and I dislike the idea/direction and/or I dislike what I have read.

lordrichter wrote: »

So. 2.6.9! Today's patch introduces phase 1 of the Crown Crate introduction.

See you later guys. It's been fun. Time to uninstall.

Esquire1980g_ESO

Negative: I have NOT tested the crates, and I dislike the idea/direction and/or I dislike what I have read.

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

Esquire1980g_ESO wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

EQBallzz wrote: »

So this entire system is backwards IMO. Instead of having a compelling game that makes you want to pay for it like subs used to do..you get a shell of a game that you have to spend ever increasing amounts of money on to make compelling. Spoiler alert..it never will be.

This is my biggest concern. While some people are comfortable and shrug this off with comments that include words like "customization" and "optional", or even prefer games that do it, the bottom line for me is what you said.

My feeling is that a good game studio has the resources, talent, and business insight to make a game that can generate revenue. They can have a cash shop just to have a cash shop. For all of the other studios, it is cash shop or go home.

I am not completely sure that it is possible for any studio to do this with a new game, given the current nature of the gaming market. ZOS managed to make a new game that was pretty good, but it was not that good, and this did nothing but demonstrate that ZOS is definitely not the studio to prove it can be done.

Edit (last para got lost): What concerns me is that a game I like is trapped with a studio that I do not think has what it takes to make the game better. My fear is that we will quickly see it start to coast, only to be overshadowed by a new "average MMO with Cash Shop" game from ZOS in a couple years.

The problem is with all of this is, sooooo many studios are doing this now that it seems natural to anyone who hasn't played MMORPGs as long as we have. Therefore, it's now the accepted norm with these newer players. /sarcasm, "hey casuals can catch up by just dropping some cash, so no harm, no foul".

People keep saying that it's not P2W just because it doesn't affect the PART of the game they play. I strongly disagree even with cosmetics. It may not be P2W with PVP but it sure is with collectors and anyone who RPs. Funny how a lot of MMORPG players miss that RP part of the name, itself. And that RP part is just as important to a part of the playerbase with P2W items are to the PVP part of a playerbase. And, the RP, cosmetic, PVE part of the playerbase dwarfs those that stick to PVP and are the most vocal about P2W.

Doesn't matter anyway as studios find out they can sell P2W with the cosmetic portion of the game, they'll figure it out sooner or later that the PVP players will, and have, go this route as well. They mostly all have and this one will follow suit as well.

Players need to figure out that MMORPGs are changing. The studios are going to cash grabs/gambling for pixels and the players are making private servers and games to counter. EQ makes that statement very clearly in his post. As more and more players go to these private servers, then the studios almost have to counter with more and more cash grabs/gambling. It's a never ending battle for "truth, justice, and the American way".

I, too have went to a private server, only I started my own to make darn good and sure that I NEVER see these things in that game. As for studios thinking their dev teams are going to pull them thru due to shear numbers, I know that we have what would be TWO (2) SOE complete expansions on our test server right now. This includes 2 new planets that dwarf the areas in these games, 4 new dungeons, 9 new species (for players), 3 more professions added to the 32 that there are now in a complete skill box game, added PVP opportunities, and many other additions, ALL FOR COMPLETLY FREE, no lockboxes, no subs, no nothing.

And the sad part of this is? Gaming studios have done this to themselves.

I'm not disputing anything you've wrote prior to this, but i have no idea why you'd use the part I've highlighted as some sort of stick to beat gaming studios over the head with. What people do in their free time is usually done because they earn the resources to do those things elsewhere i.e. having a job. There are people out there in other lines of work that charge for a service that others can do small scale for next to nothing because it's a hobby for the latter party. Hell, someone could randomly just go out in their car and ferry others around FOR FREE in their spare time because they enjoy the company and driving. Doesn't mean proper Taxi drivers are gouging people. Do I think gaming studios are now in the habit of fleecing their customers? Yes. Do I think everything they do is morally right? No, but by the same token they need to charge something otherwise the business goes under, no one is able to feed themselves and a host of other obvious nonsense.

Don't take the above that I agree with the pricing policy and some of the selling methods most games now employ, because i don't, but there are things they need to charge us for. Like those 4 dungeons you highlighted that are free. Devs just can't make that particular content and charge nothing. Rather than give you a list of what I think is worth my cash, it would just be easier to say I agree with everything CD Projekt Red have had to say on the matter. I also understand MMO devs have to charge for items that the likes of CD Projekt Red wouldn't charge us for as to maintain the servers and keep paying their staff.

/agree that studios need cash to survive. The problem here is, they got greedy with all their cash grabs/Gambling for pixels and private servers are one of the systemic answers to the original problem. I supported TESO when it was sub (look at the name) and continued even when they went B2P. The last month that I played TESO, the wife and I spent over $100.00 on sub and store. We have no problem paying for something that we like.

However, I, and in fact my entire guild as they canceled with me here, will not support these actions and having played MMORPGs since 2003, I still want a game to play and this one I have control over any and all cash that crosses hands, which is exactly 0. Yes, I use another profession to buy servers, pay connection fees, etc etc etc and it would be so much cheaper for me to just go along with the lockboxes. However, I went that route with Cryptic, seen it 1st hand. They totally ruined a decent game by all of these monetizing efforts that TESO is now copying, right down to the lockboxes (only this time about 4 times the price). I've had more than my share of watching AAA Studios destroy their own game via SOE's NGE and Cryptic's Lockboxes and the rest, et al.

I have no sympathy for these studios, their leads that bring on this type of crap, and don't really care if we are competing with them or not, if they need money, I'm taking players away from them, etc etc etc. The direct causation of why I'm running my servers, and paying the amounts I do to do so, is completely due to their own actions.

In fact, when they sent me a "Hey, come on back and we'll give you free months", I responded with an email that told them exactly what I was doing and planning. I was replied to with "Great, if you can't find what you want, build it yourself" which is exactly what I'm doing.

EDIT, I keep thinking of more stuff;
And, in fact, IMHO the no store, no cosmetics, no guns/weapons/swords/etc sold for real cash makes for a completely different and better game as EVERYTHING above starter level is crafted and sold by...... gasp......... PLAYERS. Make your item, point up dropping your NPC vendor(s) (I have 9 of them set right now and I didn't have to bid on a single one or join a guild), and help the economy of the server in general. And crafters there, know very well that developers are NOT going to compete with them in any way shape of form by selling or dropping better than they can make.

Prof_Bawbag

Esquire1980g_ESO wrote: »

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

Esquire1980g_ESO wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

EQBallzz wrote: »

So this entire system is backwards IMO. Instead of having a compelling game that makes you want to pay for it like subs used to do..you get a shell of a game that you have to spend ever increasing amounts of money on to make compelling. Spoiler alert..it never will be.

This is my biggest concern. While some people are comfortable and shrug this off with comments that include words like "customization" and "optional", or even prefer games that do it, the bottom line for me is what you said.

My feeling is that a good game studio has the resources, talent, and business insight to make a game that can generate revenue. They can have a cash shop just to have a cash shop. For all of the other studios, it is cash shop or go home.

I am not completely sure that it is possible for any studio to do this with a new game, given the current nature of the gaming market. ZOS managed to make a new game that was pretty good, but it was not that good, and this did nothing but demonstrate that ZOS is definitely not the studio to prove it can be done.

Edit (last para got lost): What concerns me is that a game I like is trapped with a studio that I do not think has what it takes to make the game better. My fear is that we will quickly see it start to coast, only to be overshadowed by a new "average MMO with Cash Shop" game from ZOS in a couple years.

The problem is with all of this is, sooooo many studios are doing this now that it seems natural to anyone who hasn't played MMORPGs as long as we have. Therefore, it's now the accepted norm with these newer players. /sarcasm, "hey casuals can catch up by just dropping some cash, so no harm, no foul".

People keep saying that it's not P2W just because it doesn't affect the PART of the game they play. I strongly disagree even with cosmetics. It may not be P2W with PVP but it sure is with collectors and anyone who RPs. Funny how a lot of MMORPG players miss that RP part of the name, itself. And that RP part is just as important to a part of the playerbase with P2W items are to the PVP part of a playerbase. And, the RP, cosmetic, PVE part of the playerbase dwarfs those that stick to PVP and are the most vocal about P2W.

Doesn't matter anyway as studios find out they can sell P2W with the cosmetic portion of the game, they'll figure it out sooner or later that the PVP players will, and have, go this route as well. They mostly all have and this one will follow suit as well.

Players need to figure out that MMORPGs are changing. The studios are going to cash grabs/gambling for pixels and the players are making private servers and games to counter. EQ makes that statement very clearly in his post. As more and more players go to these private servers, then the studios almost have to counter with more and more cash grabs/gambling. It's a never ending battle for "truth, justice, and the American way".

I, too have went to a private server, only I started my own to make darn good and sure that I NEVER see these things in that game. As for studios thinking their dev teams are going to pull them thru due to shear numbers, I know that we have what would be TWO (2) SOE complete expansions on our test server right now. This includes 2 new planets that dwarf the areas in these games, 4 new dungeons, 9 new species (for players), 3 more professions added to the 32 that there are now in a complete skill box game, added PVP opportunities, and many other additions, ALL FOR COMPLETLY FREE, no lockboxes, no subs, no nothing.

And the sad part of this is? Gaming studios have done this to themselves.

I'm not disputing anything you've wrote prior to this, but i have no idea why you'd use the part I've highlighted as some sort of stick to beat gaming studios over the head with. What people do in their free time is usually done because they earn the resources to do those things elsewhere i.e. having a job. There are people out there in other lines of work that charge for a service that others can do small scale for next to nothing because it's a hobby for the latter party. Hell, someone could randomly just go out in their car and ferry others around FOR FREE in their spare time because they enjoy the company and driving. Doesn't mean proper Taxi drivers are gouging people. Do I think gaming studios are now in the habit of fleecing their customers? Yes. Do I think everything they do is morally right? No, but by the same token they need to charge something otherwise the business goes under, no one is able to feed themselves and a host of other obvious nonsense.

Don't take the above that I agree with the pricing policy and some of the selling methods most games now employ, because i don't, but there are things they need to charge us for. Like those 4 dungeons you highlighted that are free. Devs just can't make that particular content and charge nothing. Rather than give you a list of what I think is worth my cash, it would just be easier to say I agree with everything CD Projekt Red have had to say on the matter. I also understand MMO devs have to charge for items that the likes of CD Projekt Red wouldn't charge us for as to maintain the servers and keep paying their staff.

/agree that studios need cash to survive. The problem here is, they got greedy with all their cash grabs/Gambling for pixels and private servers are one of the systemic answers to the original problem. I supported TESO when it was sub (look at the name) and continued even when they went B2P. The last month that I played TESO, the wife and I spent over $100.00 on sub and store. We have no problem paying for something that we like.

However, I, and in fact my entire guild as they canceled with me here, will not support these actions and having played MMORPGs since 2003, I still want a game to play and this one I have control over any and all cash that crosses hands, which is exactly 0. Yes, I use another profession to buy servers, pay connection fees, etc etc etc and it would be so much cheaper for me to just go along with the lockboxes. However, I went that route with Cryptic, seen it 1st hand. They totally ruined a decent game by all of these monetizing efforts that TESO is now copying, right down to the lockboxes (only this time about 4 times the price). I've had more than my share of watching AAA Studios destroy their own game via SOE's NGE and Cryptic's Lockboxes and the rest, et al.

I have no sympathy for these studios, their leads that bring on this type of crap, and don't really care if we are competing with them or not, if they need money, I'm taking players away from them, etc etc etc. The direct causation of why I'm running my servers, and paying the amounts I do to do so, is completely due to their own actions.

In fact, when they sent me a "Hey, come on back and we'll give you free months", I responded with an email that told them exactly what I was doing and planning. I was replied to with "Great, if you can't find what you want, build it yourself" which is exactly what I'm doing.

EDIT, I keep thinking of more stuff;
And, in fact, IMHO the no store, no cosmetics, no guns/weapons/swords/etc sold for real cash makes for a completely different and better game as EVERYTHING above starter level is crafted and sold by...... gasp......... PLAYERS. Make your item, point up dropping your NPC vendor(s) (I have 9 of them set right now and I didn't have to bid on a single one or join a guild), and help the economy of the server in general. And crafters there, know very well that developers are NOT going to compete with them in any way shape of form by selling or dropping better than they can make.

@Esquire1980g_ESO There's no need to preach to the converted, mate. I agreed with 99% of everything you initially wrote and I do get where you're coming from. I just didn't think something people did in their free time was a fair comparison in this particular instance. The same logic could be applied to almost every job that has some sort of hobbyist following attached to it. Didn't mean for my post to come across as being in full disagreement if that's how you took it.