What do you think of Crown Crates? -- New Poll for PTS Implementation

ldzlcs065

Neutral: I have NOT tested the crates, and my feelings are neutral, noncommital, or do not apply.

Mandragora wrote: »

ldzlcs065 wrote: »

Whatzituyah wrote: »

ldzlcs065 wrote: »

Kendaric wrote: »

ldzlcs065 wrote: »

With that said, I'm a little bit surprised that so many people who seem haven't and will not try these things come here to show their unhappiness. However, even with these 11 pages of which most are complaints, I somehow have the feeling that the majority of players will just show indifference on this topic, and that even for those who dislike this idea, not many of them hate it to an extent that they will quit or unsub. So to be frank I don't think I will see ZOS change its opinion towards this mechanism.

Well, a good number of people used the videos that were posted, others already have experience with these scam crates from other games and yet others don't like them on principle.
And, of course, not everybody has access to the PTS to test them.

In fact, I've seen others' experience and expericed such crates (not always scam IMO) from other games. And my stance is always like: I only complain when the game's maker fails to offer good game content or service, not when they fail to offer a good environment? When I feel don't like the environment, I quit but don't complain, because complaining about the environment sounds like that I'm dictating how other players should play this game, that thought makes me feel no good.

@ldzlcs065 Does anything get done by just quiting? Your favorite game goes down a dark path and you don't want to try to save it? I know its only opinions of what could "save" and what could "kill" a game but in my opinion we could be seeing what may possibly kill it. Complaining is feedback whether the developers like it or not...

Well fist I want you know that I'm not against any of these negative feedback. I'm just posting my opinion which might be different from yours. Basically, no matter which path the eso will go, I will only view it as a path I like or a path I dislike, but not a darker or brighter path. I've experienced such things before. In fact, I played WOW for many years before I turned to ESO. Now I think WOW has taken a completely different path than at its beginning, which have frustrated many old players. But even though WOW don't interest me anymore, I don't think there should be anybody to be responsible for this as long as WOW still attracts many new players and I still hope WOW do good in the future. I think it's just a difference in values so I just post my opinion to clarify the base of my previous post but not to trigger another debate.

And just for your information, this comment is not towards crown crates or status quo of eso, because I don't believe eso is undergoing or will undergo any drastic change in environment due to crown crates or any other reasons. The motive for my posting is some inconsistency I'm feeling, I see a lot of negative feedbacks here and in several posts in PTS, but other than this places I've seen literally no talking about this topic. So I think the truth is: majority of people show indifference towards this idea, a bunch of people is actively against this idea and a few people like this idea.

They lock down any other thread, so you cannot see any other activity.
And you probably do not care about the game - the players, who write here do.
And I don't care about others buying/not buying crates - it is completely different problem - it is a problem of players, who gave a lot of money for cosmetics to support the game and now they are told to gamble for everything they could miss.

I have my own grunge - I didn't test it - because what would be the difference? It is what it is - enough for me to read the description.
And I don't like it, because I was the player who asked for return of a scholar outfit, and a few weeks later Matt Firor said, that basically that those players, who asked for old cosmetic like scholars outfit, will have to gamble for it.

And yes, you can say, that I can still play the game - yes, I can still play any other game, where I don't like such feature, but I cannot support those devs anymore.

Well, I agree that people who take time to criticize this game show their concern to this game. And I also think people who think those who don't do so don't care about this game just show their arrogance.

snakester320

Negative: I have NOT tested the crates, and I dislike the idea/direction and/or I dislike what I have read.

I find it all a bit amusing .. I was against this type of dirty disgusting tactics from the announcement .. Yet once again we have a poll where the majority of ppl are against it and ZOS clearly don't give 2 Sh.ts about the community by sitting on there hands saying nothing and pushing forward with this money grab .. Can't wait to see what's the next tactic after they sucked there whales ( idiots ) dry of money to raise revenue to make content that HAS substance .. Yes I've stopped subbing my self and find myself visiting for a hour or 2 just to take away the boredom of not much released in the last few months.. Hate to say it ZOS but keep pulling this bullsh.t with your customers and you will be stuck begging for players for your broke arse company and game!

Eocosa

Negative: I have NOT tested the crates, and I dislike the idea/direction and/or I dislike what I have read.

Admittedly I have NOT tested them here, but am going off what I read and previous experience with boxes and am not really a fan of them.

I would MUCH rather they just cycle though previous items and sell them at their full price when they're around and take the chance I miss them again then having the perpetual tease in front of me.

Granted I don't know if the data speaks for itself for them and they've seen a larger profit from the crates, if so I am still against them, but can appreciate there incentive to do it if people buy tons of them.

I am more then happy to spend money on the game and for cosmetics (I sub and still buy crowns), but if I wanted to actually gamble with my real $$$ I'd much rather do it for real $$$ instead of the off chance I get a mount or something I want.

I will add, and I know MANY people may disagree with me on this, but if you can sell the crates ingame for gold I'd be a bit more content with that as it allows those with less game time and more $$$ to offer these items and the risk/reward to those with more game time on their hands who may not spend $$$ or are unable to on these crates.

Not only does this offer more incentive to buy the crates for people who may want gold instead, but it even opens up some crown store items to people who will/can not buy crowns.

snakester320

Negative: I have NOT tested the crates, and I dislike the idea/direction and/or I dislike what I have read.

redspecter23 wrote: »

I've tested the crates for 5 days now. No apex mount which is the only thing I really wanted. Just over 300 gems so I'm not even able to buy it outright after 26,000 crowns which is at least 5 times more expensive than any other mount released so far. Nearly every box I open now is just a duplicate of a low tier collectible so basically 5 gems. This is an extremely negative feeling when opening a crate and should NOT be what ZoS intends.

Every crate opened should be exciting and worth the price you paid to buy it. The current implementation leaves you paying 400 crowns for 5 gems at a time to finally get to 400 to get that mount you wanted. At the end of the grind, you have a massive credit card bill and still don't feel like using the mount because it doesn't represent any accomplishment. You might as well just ride around on a big fat moneybag because that's what people will see instead of a very cool looking mount.

THIS ! Just to remind the players who agree with these crates and intend to spend money on these..They are clearly set up to drain your bank account.. The only winner here is ZOS ... You are NOT going to get that Mount or rare item you want for anything less than FAR MORE than what you would pay for it in the crown store outright...Yet there are so many ways to secure solid revenue to produce solid content ( THEY SCREWED THAT UP )..What seems to amuse me the most does this not sound/feel like a desperate company desperate to rip money off whoever to keep there game alive??

Lysette

Negative: I have NOT tested the crates, and I dislike the idea/direction and/or I dislike what I have read.

snakester320 wrote: »

I find it all a bit amusing .. I was against this type of dirty disgusting tactics from the announcement .. Yet once again we have a poll where the majority of ppl are against it and ZOS clearly don't give 2 Sh.ts about the community by sitting on there hands saying nothing and pushing forward with this money grab .. Can't wait to see what's the next tactic after they sucked there whales ( idiots ) dry of money to raise revenue to make content that HAS substance .. Yes I've stopped subbing my self and find myself visiting for a hour or 2 just to take away the boredom of not much released in the last few months.. Hate to say it ZOS but keep pulling this bullsh.t with your customers and you will be stuck begging for players for your broke arse company and game!

This is not aiming at whales - whales like to buy stuff, not to gamble for it. They are willing to spend money but they want the items immediately - NOW, not eventually somewhere in future, if it all. This is not about whales - this is to target gambling addicts and to get people, who are prone to get addicted to it into the matter. This is far worse than catering to whales. And it is aimed at collectors, which are not happy, if they cannot complete their collection - it is a way to get even more money out of them than ever before. It is a scam.

wayfarerx

Negative: I have NOT tested the crates, and I dislike the idea/direction and/or I dislike what I have read.

Lysette wrote: »

snakester320 wrote: »

I find it all a bit amusing .. I was against this type of dirty disgusting tactics from the announcement .. Yet once again we have a poll where the majority of ppl are against it and ZOS clearly don't give 2 Sh.ts about the community by sitting on there hands saying nothing and pushing forward with this money grab .. Can't wait to see what's the next tactic after they sucked there whales ( idiots ) dry of money to raise revenue to make content that HAS substance .. Yes I've stopped subbing my self and find myself visiting for a hour or 2 just to take away the boredom of not much released in the last few months.. Hate to say it ZOS but keep pulling this bullsh.t with your customers and you will be stuck begging for players for your broke arse company and game!

This is not aiming at whales - whales like to buy stuff, not to gamble for it. They are willing to spend money but they want the items immediately - NOW, not eventually somewhere in future, if it all. This is not about whales - this is to target gambling addicts and to get people, who are prone to get addicted to it into the matter. This is far worse than catering to whales.

This is true. If ZOS wanted whales they could just put the fancy new mounts in the store, price them at 30k crowns and call it done. The crown crate system is designed to entice people to spend more than they otherwise would on crown items, it relies on deliberately keeping customers in the dark about how they are spending their money and what they can expect in return.

Sou_rou

Other: My feelings are more complex than the above sentiments. (Comment below.)

Other.

Positives: ZOS gets money. Some people get some special item.

I probably won't buy any. I'm not fond of lotteries. The special item would have to be very special. I'd rather pay for the item I want than buy a bunch of chances to not-win it and end up with items I either can't use or don't want. (Are unwanted items BoE or BoP? If BoP, I'm less likely to buy even if there is a very special item.)

Negatives...

The obsessive person risk (or gambling addict risk or completionist risk): Some people may spend insane amounts of money trying to get some special content and end up in financial trouble--and possibly their families too. (In another game, they offered a special item in their equivalent of the crates during one event. Quite a few people got the item with less than 100 crate-equivalents. One guy spent a whole day opening the thousands of dollars worth of crate-equivalents he bought and didn't get the item. The upside was, everyone knew his handle and he became a legend.)

EDIT: The only reason I'm camping places like Cambray Hills/Wolf Camp is because I'm a completionist and want the skulls and motifs for the achievement. I'm not enough of a completionist that I'd pay a bundle of real-world or in-game money to get either.

The disappointment risk: People will get mad because they spent $100 or $200 or $1000 and didn't get some special item and spam the forums for weeks. (Happened in the same game, but not from crazy guy.)

The "free-lunch crowd" risk: People will get mad because there's an item in the crate that isn't available in free-to-play. (Fact: MMOs cost money to build and run. Fact: TANSTAFL. Opinion: OtherPlayer bought crates and gets a prettier non-com pet, costume, motif, hair style, whatever is NOT a substantial in-game advantage--get over it.)

Opportunity cost: Time spent coding, testing and maintaining this could have been spent on fixes and other enhancements that might be (subjective) more popular with the player base and (subjective) less controversial. It's also another place for stuff to break in maintenance. These statements are true for any new feature, except the subjective parts.

Conclusion: I'm not going to quit playing ESO because of this feature. I probably won't use it. I won't be mad at people who do use it unless ZOS starts putting significant in-game advantage into them. (Note that "significant" is subjective too.)

Kuningatar

Negative: I have tested the crates, and I do not want this feature to be implemented in the game.

-deleted- double posted for some reason without meaning to

Kuningatar

Negative: I have tested the crates, and I do not want this feature to be implemented in the game.

Bouldercleave wrote: »

verenkutoja wrote: »

JimT722 wrote: »

verenkutoja wrote: »

GhostwalkerLD wrote: »

Solus wrote: »

I have seen gambling/RNG boxes implemented into games that are blocked by a pay wall and i have never thought it was a good idea. In the past i have participated, and it was a very disappointing experience for me. I havent personally tested these out, however i have read feedback from people that have. They get 5000 crowns a day to test this feature out. basically what one person said was: (I'm paraphrasing here)

" I do not get anything even close to being worth 400 crowns. Just a bunch of potions and stuff i would not use."

I understand the desire to make more money ZOS, and I'm one of those people that bought every DLC, AND i pay monthly. Just so i outright own everything, and i get the extra perks of being a plus member. So i have paid someone's paycheck myself, personally. I also buy mounts, occasionally an experience scroll pack when I want to grind for CP, among other things.

You dont need this kind of deception, this magic trick kind of trickery, in your game. It would maybe be one thing if im GUARENTEED one yellow item, and one purple, one blue and a handful of normal items with one crate. And it would have to all be things I've yet to unlock. (what i mean is, mounts, skins, colors, ECT. nothing game changing, all cosmetic) If were to just get stuff i either,

A/ wouldnt use

or

B/ already have

It would make it extremely pointless to implement. Sure you'll get the suckers. But do you really want to associate with companies that take advantage of your uninformed, not overly smart and/or impulsive portion of your fan/customer base?

I would hope not, i have more faith in you than that.

You might have more faith in them, but I think the majority of us don't, because this isn't the first time they've done something like this. It is, however, the first time they've done it while flagrantly ignoring (and not even acknowledging) any of the legitimate concerns raised on their OWN FORUMS, including in the thread where they specifically requested feedback on these crates.

No, they have ignored concerns before.

There were a lot of people quite frustrated about them going B2P years back (however long) - that were a whole fiasco where the forums were on fire with people angry about them blatantly lying as they had said in the past they would absolutely never drop the subscription model and boasted on and on about how "paying a monthly subscription will ensure quality content at a good pace!"

All the hype were just designed to trick people into sticking with them long enough for them to fund (from the PC players) the console launch, once they did that they no longer cared whether the die-hard fans that had founded the game stayed or not, they had a new fountain of wealth.

This is more or less the same situation, but sooner or later it will bite them in the rear.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say about console launch as it was supposed to release a few months after PC. It was delayed because the developers felt it wasn't ready.

What I have noticed is the shift in the relationship between the company and developers. I remember when eso had no dye system. People wanted it and ZOS decided to implement it to make their players happy. The company today decided to expand it for costumes and added a ridiculous dye stamp system.

The game has turned its focus from keeping people playing to support the game to generating as much profit as it can. They will implement whatever method they can to achieve this and I doubt it will bite them.

Matt Firor says people are concerned the game will be put on a slippery slope to p2w. This is his argument for the complaints against buy 2 play. He made the same arguments for crown crates.

The decision to going buy 2 play was sold as freedom to pay for the game as we choose. Crown Crates adding rng to payments goes against this. This is the slippery slope most were concerned with. What will they hit us with next?

Looking at where this game is going after 2.5 years is depressing. People keep asking me why I still play eso, and that question is getting difficult to answer.

"Delayed to release a few months after PC", yeah. Quite convenient the way that worked out, was it not? Convenient almost like they knew it would happen.

That is my point. Everything they have done would seem once its scrutinized to have been done quite intelligently, everything have been lead with a specific plan in mind and a knowledge of what they would do in the future. Every single press release were carefully tailored with lies and untruths in order to keep the hype train alive long enough for people to support this game until it went B2P and all of this other crap and they had a different fount of money to count on.

But they used the people who founded this game, people like myself who foolishly spend over €100,00 on a collectors edition and stayed subscribed through the whole fiasco up until the B2P move - They used us and then they more or less cast us off to the side, giving away the previously 'collectors edition exclusive' mudcrab for instance, then the senche mount that were supposedly a "thank you" for the loyal subscribers who got screwed up the butt by Zenimax, which they just threw a new skin on and then sold on the market for crowns.

That is the thing. You can deny it all you want, you can say it is not so, but it will not make it any less true. What they have done have all been planned out. There is not a single moment that Zenimax have been caught off guard by anything that happened, this tells me that their deception and underhandedness have been entirely intelligent and they knew good and well what they were doing.

SO - they had a business model and a game plan all along and executed it you say? Of course they did. Every business out there does the exact same thing. There is ZERO chance of getting the funding and investors needed for an endeavor like this without a rock solid business model and plan of execution.

You may not like the business model, you may not like the plan, direction, execution, or even the company itself. But if this (as you say) was their business plan all along, they executed it flawlessly.

You feel used? Well, welcome to life. You now have a seat at the big peoples table. I'm sorry to sound harsh, but any seller of consumer goods looks at their client base as only one thing - an open wallet.

The consumer will answer with their wallet - ALWAYS. You know this, and they know this. If you disagree with them or their direction - stop paying. If you disagree with them strongly enough, stop playing.

It really is just that simple.

Me thinks you missed or just happened to 'overlook' the many times I have stated that I did pull my money out of this game and cancelled my subscription/will no longer buy any crowns and took my sub money to other mmos, but whatever.

snakester320

Negative: I have NOT tested the crates, and I dislike the idea/direction and/or I dislike what I have read.

Lysette wrote: »

snakester320 wrote: »

I find it all a bit amusing .. I was against this type of dirty disgusting tactics from the announcement .. Yet once again we have a poll where the majority of ppl are against it and ZOS clearly don't give 2 Sh.ts about the community by sitting on there hands saying nothing and pushing forward with this money grab .. Can't wait to see what's the next tactic after they sucked there whales ( idiots ) dry of money to raise revenue to make content that HAS substance .. Yes I've stopped subbing my self and find myself visiting for a hour or 2 just to take away the boredom of not much released in the last few months.. Hate to say it ZOS but keep pulling this bullsh.t with your customers and you will be stuck begging for players for your broke arse company and game!

This is not aiming at whales - whales like to buy stuff, not to gamble for it. They are willing to spend money but they want the items immediately - NOW, not eventually somewhere in future, if it all. This is not about whales - this is to target gambling addicts and to get people, who are prone to get addicted to it into the matter. This is far worse than catering to whales. And it is aimed at collectors, which are not happy, if they cannot complete their collection - it is a way to get even more money out of them than ever before. It is a scam.

aimed at collectors or whales the outcome will become the same ppl will realise there getting screwed and YES the whales will be the only ones supporting the game and the dlc will get worse and worse till the game ultimately dies!!

Lysette

Negative: I have NOT tested the crates, and I dislike the idea/direction and/or I dislike what I have read.

snakester320 wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

snakester320 wrote: »

I find it all a bit amusing .. I was against this type of dirty disgusting tactics from the announcement .. Yet once again we have a poll where the majority of ppl are against it and ZOS clearly don't give 2 Sh.ts about the community by sitting on there hands saying nothing and pushing forward with this money grab .. Can't wait to see what's the next tactic after they sucked there whales ( idiots ) dry of money to raise revenue to make content that HAS substance .. Yes I've stopped subbing my self and find myself visiting for a hour or 2 just to take away the boredom of not much released in the last few months.. Hate to say it ZOS but keep pulling this bullsh.t with your customers and you will be stuck begging for players for your broke arse company and game!

This is not aiming at whales - whales like to buy stuff, not to gamble for it. They are willing to spend money but they want the items immediately - NOW, not eventually somewhere in future, if it all. This is not about whales - this is to target gambling addicts and to get people, who are prone to get addicted to it into the matter. This is far worse than catering to whales. And it is aimed at collectors, which are not happy, if they cannot complete their collection - it is a way to get even more money out of them than ever before. It is a scam.

aimed at collectors or whales the outcome will become the same ppl will realise there getting screwed and YES the whales will be the only ones supporting the game and the dlc will get worse and worse till the game ultimately dies!!

Well, I have a tendency to be a whale, and to me this was a reason to pull out of this game - I neither spent any more money on ESO since they announced these crates nor did I play a lot - I logged in a couple of times, but I have no fun with this game anymore. ZOS killed it for me. I would have ESO+ until next August, but I am not likely to make use of it. I thought at first, I might still be interested to see those provinces, which I haven't seen yet, but in fact my interest is near zero, because there is no future for me in the game. I cannot buy anything without a bad conscience to support a company, which makes design decisions, which are clearly not in the interest of players and abusive of player with a gambling or impulse control disorder. I am tired of the many lies of ZOS, including the "no harm" lie about those RNG crates - they are harmful by concept.

ESO becomes more and more a cash grab instead to be the diamond in the rough, the one MMO, which is different.where one could be proud of being a part of it. But ZOS was cash grabbing from the very start and I should never have given them a 2nd chance. Cash grabbing is one thing, but to do it in an abusive way, just like any other free to play MMO out there, is different. I feel betrayed as customer, disrespected and this is not even just a feeling, it is fact - this poll shows clearly that ZOS is disrespecting their player base. As well with other things, like selling items at high price of low quality and not even fixing that - or even worse, saying they will do and don't - I am so tired of all their lies and bad business ethics.

ZOS's balancing efforts are as well a lie - they are not interested to balance anything, but to swing the meta around in order to sell more style parlor tokens. There is no effort to effectively balance anything, they abuse competitive players by making changes which switch the meta and competitive players are forced to adjust to it or stop being competitive. And this happens pretty much every 3 months, where change is made in order to eliminate the current meta and create a new one, which is unbalanced as well. Wake up, folks, you are abused in many ways. This is not a game you should support - not into that direction, in which ZOS is heading now.

snakester320

Negative: I have NOT tested the crates, and I dislike the idea/direction and/or I dislike what I have read.

Lysette wrote: »

snakester320 wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

snakester320 wrote: »

I find it all a bit amusing .. I was against this type of dirty disgusting tactics from the announcement .. Yet once again we have a poll where the majority of ppl are against it and ZOS clearly don't give 2 Sh.ts about the community by sitting on there hands saying nothing and pushing forward with this money grab .. Can't wait to see what's the next tactic after they sucked there whales ( idiots ) dry of money to raise revenue to make content that HAS substance .. Yes I've stopped subbing my self and find myself visiting for a hour or 2 just to take away the boredom of not much released in the last few months.. Hate to say it ZOS but keep pulling this bullsh.t with your customers and you will be stuck begging for players for your broke arse company and game!

This is not aiming at whales - whales like to buy stuff, not to gamble for it. They are willing to spend money but they want the items immediately - NOW, not eventually somewhere in future, if it all. This is not about whales - this is to target gambling addicts and to get people, who are prone to get addicted to it into the matter. This is far worse than catering to whales. And it is aimed at collectors, which are not happy, if they cannot complete their collection - it is a way to get even more money out of them than ever before. It is a scam.

aimed at collectors or whales the outcome will become the same ppl will realise there getting screwed and YES the whales will be the only ones supporting the game and the dlc will get worse and worse till the game ultimately dies!!

Well, I have a tendency to be a whale, and to me this was a reason to pull out of this game - I neither spent any more money on ESO since they announced these crates nor did I play a lot - I logged in a couple of times, but I have no fun with this game anymore. ZOS killed it for me. I would have ESO+ until next August, but I am not likely to make use of it. I thought at first, I might still be interested to see those provinces, which I haven't seen yet, but in fact my interest is near zero, because there is no future for me in the game. I cannot buy anything without a bad conscience to support a company, which makes design decisions, which are clearly not in the interest of players and abusive of player with a gambling or impulse control disorder. I am tired of the many lies of ZOS, including the "no harm" lie about those RNG crates - they are harmful by concept.

ESO becomes more and more a cash grab instead to be the diamond in the rough, the one MMO, which is different.where one could be proud of being a part of it. But ZOS was cash grabbing from the very start and I should never have given them a 2nd chance. Cash grabbing is one thing, but to do it in an abusive way, just like any other free to play MMO out there, is different. I feel betrayed as customer, disrespected and this is not even just a feeling, it is fact - this poll shows clearly that ZOS is disrespecting their player base. As well with other things, like selling items at high price of low quality and not even fixing that - or even worse, saying they will do and don't - I am so tired of all their lies and bad business ethics.

ZOS's balancing efforts are as well a lie - they are not interested to balance anything, but to swing the meta around in order to sell more style parlor tokens. There is no effort to effectively balance anything, they abuse competitive players by making changes which switch the meta and competitive players are forced to adjust to it or stop being competitive. And this happens pretty much every 3 months, where change is made in order to eliminate the current meta and create a new one, which is unbalanced as well. Wake up, folks, you are abused in many ways. This is not a game you should support - not into that direction, in which ZOS is heading now.

I can see your logic and this is what I'm saying as well as others YET ZOS seem to have stuck there fingers in there ears and are humming away this will result in the collectors going bye bye and in time whales will slowly swim away and the game will die.. Hence why ppl can disagree with me all they want a free 2 play mmo game is certain death slowly but surely .. For the simple fact they have to drag there revenue for content from somewhere if the can't secure enough we get junk like shadows of the hist.. Now they come up with the disgusting plan to blatantly rip ppl off in order to secure revenue.. I cast my mind back to mass effect 3 multi player with these rng boxes for Microsoft points.. YET even the most hated company in the world had the good sense to allow you to purchase the boxs by either A. Microsoft point or money from psn OR B. Credits earned in game..

Eiagra

Negative: I have NOT tested the crates, and I dislike the idea/direction and/or I dislike what I have read.

Sort of a random thing to point out how just changing a few words turns a "negative" experience into a "positive" one...

Back when WoW was first starting up, they played with the idea of an "Unrested XP Penalty." As I understand it, basically if you didn't "rest" for 8 hours, you got an XP penalty.

And players HATED it.

So, without changing a single thing, they called the unrested XP amount "Normal XP" and turned the normal rested XP into a "Rested XP Bonus."

And players loved it.

But the core system did not change.

One should be careful, then, that a similar spin is not placed on something that is viewed as exploitative of certain players, or of otherwise manipulating the playerbase psychologically.

Education is going to be the largest defense. Look up articles online. Watch some episodes of "Extra Credits" on YouTube. Read gamer and gamedev blogs that have run into stories of what companies have done, and the developers that have had to leave the studio as they were unwilling to compromise their morals. Find what companies have done that worked, that the players loved and felt good about.

Consider both sides of this coin (that the developer needs to financially support the project somehow -- and the playerbase should be treated as people rather than an exploitable resource to psychologically manipulate), then decide how you stand.

I do feel there is a balance to be struck somewhere. I hope somehow it is achieved. For the sake of all who call this game sanctuary...

One other note. Something I feel is important: The reason our voice is so passionate, for or against, is because we care about the game. We want to see it succeed, because it means something to us. It has value.

When we become enveloped by apathy... when we stop caring, and we no longer have a voice... Zenimax, that is when you have lost. That is when both you as a company and we as players have lost.

Callous2208

Negative: I have NOT tested the crates, and I dislike the idea/direction and/or I dislike what I have read.

Skinner boxes are mmo cancer. There is no denying this fact or arguing to the contrary.

MornaBaine

Negative: I have NOT tested the crates, and I dislike the idea/direction and/or I dislike what I have read.

Eiagra wrote: »

Sort of a random thing to point out how just changing a few words turns a "negative" experience into a "positive" one...

Back when WoW was first starting up, they played with the idea of an "Unrested XP Penalty." As I understand it, basically if you didn't "rest" for 8 hours, you got an XP penalty.

And players HATED it.

So, without changing a single thing, they called the unrested XP amount "Normal XP" and turned the normal rested XP into a "Rested XP Bonus."

And players loved it.

But the core system did not change.

One should be careful, then, that a similar spin is not placed on something that is viewed as exploitative of certain players, or of otherwise manipulating the playerbase psychologically.

Education is going to be the largest defense. Look up articles online. Watch some episodes of "Extra Credits" on YouTube. Read gamer and gamedev blogs that have run into stories of what companies have done, and the developers that have had to leave the studio as they were unwilling to compromise their morals. Find what companies have done that worked, that the players loved and felt good about.

Consider both sides of this coin (that the developer needs to financially support the project somehow -- and the playerbase should be treated as people rather than an exploitable resource to psychologically manipulate), then decide how you stand.

I do feel there is a balance to be struck somewhere. I hope somehow it is achieved. For the sake of all who call this game sanctuary...

One other note. Something I feel is important: The reason our voice is so passionate, for or against, is because we care about the game. We want to see it succeed, because it means something to us. It has value.

When we become enveloped by apathy... when we stop caring, and we no longer have a voice... Zenimax, that is when you have lost. That is when both you as a company and we as players have lost.

Have you read articles about Devs leaving a game they worked for over the implementation of these kinds of practices? If possible I would love for you to link them.

MornaBaine

Negative: I have NOT tested the crates, and I dislike the idea/direction and/or I dislike what I have read.

And here, go be depressed now.

http://www.cracked.com/article_18461_5-creepy-ways-video-games-are-trying-to-get-you-addicted.html

JimT722

Negative: I have NOT tested the crates, and I dislike the idea/direction and/or I dislike what I have read.

MornaBaine wrote: »

And here, go be depressed now.

http://www.cracked.com/article_18461_5-creepy-ways-video-games-are-trying-to-get-you-addicted.html

This is the kind of things you expect in a mobile game. Never thought we would see them in ESO.

Nyghthowler

Other: My feelings are more complex than the above sentiments. (Comment below.)

I have played other games that went this route.
First it's innocuous, harmless items.
Then it's things that would be great as drop items, but still no big deal.
Last, everything good in the game depends on paying a *** of money hoping to get anything worth having to progress.

And while all this is happening, the quality of updates keeps diminishing because the devs are focused on making more items for the gambling boxes.

Eiagra

Negative: I have NOT tested the crates, and I dislike the idea/direction and/or I dislike what I have read.

MornaBaine wrote: »

And here, go be depressed now.

http://www.cracked.com/article_18461_5-creepy-ways-video-games-are-trying-to-get-you-addicted.html

Heh, that's one of the first articles I read about all of this. I remember it well.

MercyKilling

Negative: I have NOT tested the crates, and I dislike the idea/direction and/or I dislike what I have read.

BlueViolet wrote: »

I have not tested the crates myself, but my son has been on the PTS to test. Needless to say his results were pitiful. A load of trash and very little else.
I thought this game and Zenimax were better than to introduce this kind of gambling crap garbage into the game. This is Elder Scrolls... it has always been classy, in a league of its own when compared to other series, or even MMO's.

I always thought that this game might serve as a good example to others that you don't NEED to add that kind of rubbish to your game to have a thriving community, and terrific content.
Now, it looks like it is being taken down the road hand in hand with greedy trash games like Neverwinter, STO amongst others.

This is the only MMO game I've played anymore, for last 2 and a bit years. Because it wasn't like those others. It's really disappointing to see what's happening to it. I'm saddened.

I've been hopping around from MMO to MMO after the shutdown of City of Heroes.....and still haven't found a game that even comes close to the fun level that one had. Six years, I subbed to that game. $15 a month, and happily. Even after it went down the F2P road and the introduction of something similar to these loot crates. RNG was kinder to me in that game than any other. I've played a great many games since the closure and can say without a doubt that RNG boxes are the worst kind of drivel ever to hit gaming.

However, this doesn't really bother me as I've stopped logging in months ago, due to trying to find a way to have fun DESPITE the poor design choices this studio seems keen on. Zenimax, stick to single player, non-MMO games please. KTHXBAI.

Brightxdawn

Other: My feelings are more complex than the above sentiments. (Comment below.)

The price is pretty disgusting imo.

mb10

Feels like 90% of players DO NOT want them in game but guess what? ZOS dont care

GhostwalkerLD

Negative: I have tested the crates, and I do not want this feature to be implemented in the game.

Nyghthowler wrote: »

I have played other games that went this route.
First it's innocuous, harmless items.
Then it's things that would be great as drop items, but still no big deal.
Last, everything good in the game depends on paying a *** of money hoping to get anything worth having to progress.

And while all this is happening, the quality of updates keeps diminishing because the devs are focused on making more items for the gambling boxes.

Well put! And rather succinctly so. Yet people still insist that "omg your concerns are inflated, nothing to worry about here" or even worse "if you don't like it, leave."

We DO like this game, that's why we don't want to see it ruined like this!

snakester320

Negative: I have NOT tested the crates, and I dislike the idea/direction and/or I dislike what I have read.

mb10 wrote: »

Feels like 90% of players DO NOT want them in game but guess what? ZOS dont care

A lot don't... I really think there going fail and with certain a name attached to the marking of them and there history it's not looking good for the future of ESO .. With the likes of money hungry company's attached to there resume .. EA ....can only imagine what's next to squeeze money out of players .. Check out heather powers resume .. I'd be worried

Miaura

Negative: I have tested the crates, and I do not want this feature to be implemented in the game.

The feedback on this and previous poll thread, plus the official PTS test thread is now huge, and not only that but most of it very good/smart/sound feedback. I`ve seen mystery boxes and hatred against them in other games but don´t think I`ve ever seen a community so very set against this type of thing and so intelligent in their feedback, and I`ve played many other games with "mystery" boxes .
I think ZOS should really stop here and think they have a very special kind of community, like they have said they have, that they have said they want to have, that they want to cater for and sort of "work with" in developing future content, yes?
@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_KaiSchober @ZOS_JessicaFolsom

PS. Sry Its late and I`ve a glass of wine by my side, so not at my best at describing things . On a positive note, nothing has been "retiring" from the store with the announcement of last two crown store showcases, if Im right? So peoples feedback of actually wanting to buy things they want, when they can, might have an effect?
And personally I`m very happy to see the Abahs watch turbans arriving this month- was dreading they end up in a box just because there where two of them, sort of "more filler options for box" feel... That is also a very bad thing. That your loyal customers would dread any upcoming items faith, instead of eagerly waiting for them? I really hope you are seriously concidering things like this at ZOS, and reconcidering the boxes.
Would also again like to point out that with all the strong feeling against the boxes, not only is the "joy" of parading in some of the box exlusive items a bit questionable, you are also making some of your old "retired" items "poster items" for these boxes and old buyers who actually loved the items feel horrible using them if the boxes come and really contain these old items.

Eiagra

Negative: I have NOT tested the crates, and I dislike the idea/direction and/or I dislike what I have read.

Miaura wrote: »

I think ZOS should really stop here and think they have a very special kind of community, like they have said they have, that they have said they want to have, that they want to cater for and sort of "work with" in developing future content, yes?
@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_KaiSchober @ZOS_JessicaFolsom

A very good point, this.

I've noticed that things have gone very, very quiet in regards to this feature and its news. It should be noted that doesn't mean the players have stopped being concerned about it... but I'm wondering what the developers are doing at this point in regards to the feature, since it seems there has essentially been no further communication since Sept 27th on the official discussion thread. I guess there's still a lot of work being done internally.

Smashington357

Negative: I have NOT tested the crates, and I dislike the idea/direction and/or I dislike what I have read.

I highly dislike the idea of adding any sort of microtransaction that gains you gear. This game is B2P meaning they have their revenue and they have a cash shop too so adding in gear is just being greedy on their part. I do not care that I "Don't have to buy if i don't want to" ofc i know this and adding it in still bothers me. It tells me this game is going f2P. I mean i know its coming eventually because it's the greediest game model and these devs are greedy.

Elchemist

Negative: I have NOT tested the crates, and I dislike the idea/direction and/or I dislike what I have read.

Make special mounts and costumes more expensive instead of this gambling.

This way ZOS could make money and people can actively work towards those items.

Korah_Eaglecry

Negative: I have NOT tested the crates, and I dislike the idea/direction and/or I dislike what I have read.

Eiagra wrote: »

Miaura wrote: »

I think ZOS should really stop here and think they have a very special kind of community, like they have said they have, that they have said they want to have, that they want to cater for and sort of "work with" in developing future content, yes?
@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_KaiSchober @ZOS_JessicaFolsom

A very good point, this.

I've noticed that things have gone very, very quiet in regards to this feature and its news. It should be noted that doesn't mean the players have stopped being concerned about it... but I'm wondering what the developers are doing at this point in regards to the feature, since it seems there has essentially been no further communication since Sept 27th on the official discussion thread. I guess there's still a lot of work being done internally.

Its the old "Stick your head in the sand" tactic. The only other tactic for a generally hated feature/announcement is to keep blasting away with your ads and pretend all is fine.

We'll see if this approach to handling negative feedback is going to work for them. Whats unfortunate for those of us against it is that they dont need it to be "widely" accepted amongst the player population for it to be widely successful. All they need is the demographic theyre hoping to score with with these crates. The whales.

As Ive said elsewhere. The targets of this new business model isnt to get everyone to open their wallets and spend hundreds of dollars. Its to get the few that can easily outspend the many to open their wallets. The idea is that 1 player can outspend X amount of average spending players. And at the end of the week. month, quarter and year their profits will blow up.

Elsonso

Negative: I have tested the crates, and I do not want this feature to be implemented in the game.

Eiagra wrote: »

Miaura wrote: »

I think ZOS should really stop here and think they have a very special kind of community, like they have said they have, that they have said they want to have, that they want to cater for and sort of "work with" in developing future content, yes?
@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_KaiSchober @ZOS_JessicaFolsom

A very good point, this.

I've noticed that things have gone very, very quiet in regards to this feature and its news. It should be noted that doesn't mean the players have stopped being concerned about it... but I'm wondering what the developers are doing at this point in regards to the feature, since it seems there has essentially been no further communication since Sept 27th on the official discussion thread. I guess there's still a lot of work being done internally.

What are they doing? I think "stay the course" will ultimately sum it up nicely.