What do you think of Crown Crates? -- New Poll for PTS Implementation

jeevin · October 2016

Negative: I have NOT tested the crates, and I dislike the idea/direction and/or I dislike what I have read.

lordrichter wrote: »

GhostwalkerLD wrote: »

One can only hope that everyone pays attention... @ZOS_GinaBruno , @ZOS_MattFiror , et al. But the fact that we still have yet to get a dev response in this thread, and we never had a real dev response in our OTHER Crown Crate thread which got well over 100+ pages... well.. I'm not holding my breath.

They. Have. Nothing. To. Say.

Actually I think they'll be saying,'$Ca-ching!$'

GhostwalkerLD · October 2016

Negative: I have tested the crates, and I do not want this feature to be implemented in the game.

jeevin wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

GhostwalkerLD wrote: »

One can only hope that everyone pays attention... @ZOS_GinaBruno , @ZOS_MattFiror , et al. But the fact that we still have yet to get a dev response in this thread, and we never had a real dev response in our OTHER Crown Crate thread which got well over 100+ pages... well.. I'm not holding my breath.

They. Have. Nothing. To. Say.

Actually I think they'll be saying,'$Ca-ching!$'

I tried to laugh. I really did. I even tried to do just a wry smirk.

But no. All I can manage is a sigh, a shake of my head, and a question "Why do I even log in anymore..?"

If I didn't have such good friends on the game I would have already uninstalled it by now. *sigh*

You speak the truth, and I know it.. but still..

Bleh.

jeevin · October 2016

Negative: I have NOT tested the crates, and I dislike the idea/direction and/or I dislike what I have read.

GhostwalkerLD wrote: »

jeevin wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

GhostwalkerLD wrote: »

One can only hope that everyone pays attention... @ZOS_GinaBruno , @ZOS_MattFiror , et al. But the fact that we still have yet to get a dev response in this thread, and we never had a real dev response in our OTHER Crown Crate thread which got well over 100+ pages... well.. I'm not holding my breath.

They. Have. Nothing. To. Say.

Actually I think they'll be saying,'$Ca-ching!$'

I tried to laugh. I really did. I even tried to do just a wry smirk.

But no. All I can manage is a sigh, a shake of my head, and a question "Why do I even log in anymore..?"

If I didn't have such good friends on the game I would have already uninstalled it by now. *sigh*

You speak the truth, and I know it.. but still..

Bleh.

You log in because the game can be freakin awesome at times and yeah some of the community rocks. But the company behind it(not saying the devs here) has gone to greedy ***. It's a shame that the greedy *** in charge of companies like Zenimax need to chase the dollar so hard that all morality goes out the window.

hrothbern · October 2016

Other: My feelings are more complex than the above sentiments. (Comment below.)

I saw some posts on triple AAA

Bear in mind:
Who invented that category ???
Not the operational key people, with a high knowledge base, delivering good quality and most important: high loyalty to their product !
(and that is not necessarily the customer !!! but as it goes... including the continuity of the company profile.... it is most of the time the best customers can wish for)

It is an invention of Stock Exchange analysts that need that word for their Company Value assessment and their advice to buy or sell.

So please no AAA for me
Just a enthusiast and stable team of dedicated, knowledgable and loyal operational people at the ZOS studio's is the most important for me.

Beancounters should be no more than the necessary evil to keep control over your money.
With marketing as the necessary evil to prevent you from ending up in dead alleys and muddy water.

This Crown Crate initiative, the way it is shaped, is all about the balance of power between Operational people and the necessary evils of today's corporate company behaviour.

The professional mistake is that those evil do-ers launched flawed suggestions that could in this case not be defended (for whatever reason) by the key operational people of ZOS.
Causing damage to our game and our community.

And that is what is really upsetting me.

Slurg · October 2016

Negative: I have tested the crates, and I do not want this feature to be implemented in the game.

lordrichter wrote: »

GhostwalkerLD wrote: »

One can only hope that everyone pays attention... @ZOS_GinaBruno , @ZOS_MattFiror , et al. But the fact that we still have yet to get a dev response in this thread, and we never had a real dev response in our OTHER Crown Crate thread which got well over 100+ pages... well.. I'm not holding my breath.

They. Have. Nothing. To. Say.

Sure they do. About housing! Now we can get super excited about housing and forget all about how awful those crown crates are. Maybe it's the paranoia but I don't think the "Look- over here, shiny housing!" timing was a coincidence.

Elsonso · October 2016

Negative: I have tested the crates, and I do not want this feature to be implemented in the game.

Slurg wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

GhostwalkerLD wrote: »

One can only hope that everyone pays attention... @ZOS_GinaBruno , @ZOS_MattFiror , et al. But the fact that we still have yet to get a dev response in this thread, and we never had a real dev response in our OTHER Crown Crate thread which got well over 100+ pages... well.. I'm not holding my breath.

They. Have. Nothing. To. Say.

Sure they do. About housing! Now we can get super excited about housing and forget all about how awful those crown crates are. Maybe it's the paranoia but I don't think the "Look- over here, shiny housing!" timing was a coincidence.

Uhm. I think you are vastly misunderstanding how excited the forum will be about Housing. At least, in terms of positive excitement. There is nothing in Housing for the forums but another extended "beat up on ZOS" session. At this point in the life of ESO, ZOS is pretty much incapable of making a change like Housing without taking the game further down the Cash Store road. On top of that, if you think that Crown Crates will have nothing to do with housing, and will not revive the whole Crown Crate rant, you have not been paying attention.

Housing could have been the single most important PVE base game feature in the game, and could have been a feature that topped other games out there. We now kow that ZOS is capable of excellence, and ZOS is capable of making a Housing system that is so good that it would outshine the rest of the game. We won't get that Housing. We will get the housing that is the single most important Crown Store feature they have ever released, and they will put no more effort into spit and polish than they think is necessary for it to sell in the Store. Like Appearance Change, but more expensive.

Just a simple prediction. I want to be surprised that I am wrong, but, well, not likely.

Slurg · October 2016

Negative: I have tested the crates, and I do not want this feature to be implemented in the game.

lordrichter wrote: »

Slurg wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

GhostwalkerLD wrote: »

One can only hope that everyone pays attention... @ZOS_GinaBruno , @ZOS_MattFiror , et al. But the fact that we still have yet to get a dev response in this thread, and we never had a real dev response in our OTHER Crown Crate thread which got well over 100+ pages... well.. I'm not holding my breath.

They. Have. Nothing. To. Say.

Sure they do. About housing! Now we can get super excited about housing and forget all about how awful those crown crates are. Maybe it's the paranoia but I don't think the "Look- over here, shiny housing!" timing was a coincidence.

Uhm. I think you are vastly misunderstanding how excited the forum will be about Housing. At least, in terms of positive excitement. There is nothing in Housing for the forums but another extended "beat up on ZOS" session. At this point in the life of ESO, ZOS is pretty much incapable of making a change like Housing without taking the game further down the Cash Store road. On top of that, if you think that Crown Crates will have nothing to do with housing, and will not revive the whole Crown Crate rant, you have not been paying attention.

Housing could have been the single most important PVE base game feature in the game, and could have been a feature that topped other games out there. We now kow that ZOS is capable of excellence, and ZOS is capable of making a Housing system that is so good that it would outshine the rest of the game. We won't get that Housing. We will get the housing that is the single most important Crown Store feature they have ever released, and they will put no more effort into spit and polish than they think is necessary for it to sell in the Store. Like Appearance Change, but more expensive.

Just a simple prediction. I want to be surprised that I am wrong, but, well, not likely.

No, I think you are misunderstanding what I said. I have seen and posted in some of the housing hype threads - some people are totally excited and thanking ZOS for listening to them and making housing available for gold and allowing them to craft items. The distraction is actually working on some people.

I know they aren't giving us this feature completely for free. You don't need to talk down to me but if it makes you feel good, whatever. I am reserving my judgement for actually seeing what is introduced but fully expect there to be a crown store component. I would prefer that they allow us to just buy the items outright but that is not what I expect to happen.

hrothbern · October 2016

Other: My feelings are more complex than the above sentiments. (Comment below.)

Slurg wrote: »

No, I think you are misunderstanding what I said. I have seen and posted in some of the housing hype threads - some people are totally excited and thanking ZOS for listening to them and making housing available for gold and allowing them to craft items. The distraction is actually working on some people.

@Slurg ,

you say: "The distraction is actually working on some people". ???

Do you mean:
ahhhh poor souls.... the opinion of those people does not count... because they fall for the plotting and scheming of ZOS.

Who gave you the right, the entitlement, to marginalise people that have not the same opinion as you !!!

BruceLeeroy91 · October 2016

Negative: I have NOT tested the crates, and I dislike the idea/direction and/or I dislike what I have read.

DYSEQTA wrote: »

BruceLeeroy91 wrote: »

Simple solution, don't freaking buy them, use some self control.

Congratulations on completely missing the point of why these are being added to the game and why they are so terrible. They are predatory, exploitative, and socially irresponsible. They prey on those who are psychologically predisposed to addiction which is an inherent lack of self control. It is psychological manipulation of those with a weakness in this regard. The inherent anonymity of online gaming for most people compounds the problem.

Is crack or ice OK just because you don't feel the need to take it? Are cigarette companies justified in selling addictive, known harmful products to consumers? This is exactly like cigarettes. An industry allowed to continue when it is known to be both harmful and addictive. This is the reason i believe that marketing practices of online gaming companies need to be taken to consumer protection authorities for a closer look, as this is big tobacco all over again.

Try thinking about someone other than yourself for a moment of your life.

Lolol ha, there have forever in the history of humanity been temptations and harmful addictions. And addicts have always been there to ruin the good fun of others. However your solution of take it away because it's mean is silly and childish. And then to try to turn the attacks personal are even more childish. Yea it is predatory, and yea some people will gamble away a bunch of money. However, much more important than a whole load of people complaining is the same amount of people learning to show some self control and restraint when these boxes inevitably go live. Avoid the boxes like the plague as I plan to do, if the boxes don't sell they will go away. If they do sell then fine, let the people who want to buy them fund ZOS and the game that I still enjoy the heck out of. It's cosmetic when it comes down to it.

Look at overwatch, the game released with loot crates and no one is complaining over there, albeit you can grind the same cosmetic items but it is still the same idea.

Get over yourself thinking you are so high and mighty defending gambling addicts on the forums.

Elsonso · October 2016

Negative: I have tested the crates, and I do not want this feature to be implemented in the game.

Slurg wrote: »

No, I think you are misunderstanding what I said. I have seen and posted in some of the housing hype threads - some people are totally excited and thanking ZOS for listening to them and making housing available for gold and allowing them to craft items. The distraction is actually working on some people.

I know they aren't giving us this feature completely for free. You don't need to talk down to me but if it makes you feel good, whatever. I am reserving my judgement for actually seeing what is introduced but fully expect there to be a crown store component. I would prefer that they allow us to just buy the items outright but that is not what I expect to happen.

Hopefully, I am wrong. I would like nothing more than to see a demonstration of the excellence that I know the studio is capable of, done in such a manner that allows all players access to meaningful parts of the system without spending a lot of Crowns. Heck, I would just be happy if they rolled out excellence in a game system.

Let us also remember that, when Housing rolls out, there will be questions and, very likely, concerns. ZOS is not going to tell us everything. They will diligently fail to address any questions or concerns, choosing to remain completely silent, for weeks. They have taken and perfected the art of silence. If there is something bad in Housing, this will fester. Crown Crates are a raw open wound that will not heal in time. They will come up.

DYSEQTA · October 2016

Negative: I have NOT tested the crates, and I dislike the idea/direction and/or I dislike what I have read.

BruceLeeroy91 wrote: »

DYSEQTA wrote: »

BruceLeeroy91 wrote: »

Simple solution, don't freaking buy them, use some self control.

Congratulations on completely missing the point of why these are being added to the game and why they are so terrible. They are predatory, exploitative, and socially irresponsible. They prey on those who are psychologically predisposed to addiction which is an inherent lack of self control. It is psychological manipulation of those with a weakness in this regard. The inherent anonymity of online gaming for most people compounds the problem.

Is crack or ice OK just because you don't feel the need to take it? Are cigarette companies justified in selling addictive, known harmful products to consumers? This is exactly like cigarettes. An industry allowed to continue when it is known to be both harmful and addictive. This is the reason i believe that marketing practices of online gaming companies need to be taken to consumer protection authorities for a closer look, as this is big tobacco all over again.

Try thinking about someone other than yourself for a moment of your life.

...And addicts have always been there to ruin the good fun of others. However your solution of take it away because it's mean is silly and childish...Get over yourself thinking you are so high and mighty defending gambling addicts on the forums.

So I am being high and mighty by trying to ruin the fun of repeatedly spending AU$4.26 to get a potion? Or hundreds of dollars to get an exclusive mount? You have now gone from being self centered to being the proverbial fool. Congratulations.

nimander99 · October 2016

Negative: I have tested the crates, and I do not want this feature to be implemented in the game.

Slurg wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

Slurg wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

GhostwalkerLD wrote: »

One can only hope that everyone pays attention... @ZOS_GinaBruno , @ZOS_MattFiror , et al. But the fact that we still have yet to get a dev response in this thread, and we never had a real dev response in our OTHER Crown Crate thread which got well over 100+ pages... well.. I'm not holding my breath.

They. Have. Nothing. To. Say.

Sure they do. About housing! Now we can get super excited about housing and forget all about how awful those crown crates are. Maybe it's the paranoia but I don't think the "Look- over here, shiny housing!" timing was a coincidence.

Uhm. I think you are vastly misunderstanding how excited the forum will be about Housing. At least, in terms of positive excitement. There is nothing in Housing for the forums but another extended "beat up on ZOS" session. At this point in the life of ESO, ZOS is pretty much incapable of making a change like Housing without taking the game further down the Cash Store road. On top of that, if you think that Crown Crates will have nothing to do with housing, and will not revive the whole Crown Crate rant, you have not been paying attention.

Housing could have been the single most important PVE base game feature in the game, and could have been a feature that topped other games out there. We now kow that ZOS is capable of excellence, and ZOS is capable of making a Housing system that is so good that it would outshine the rest of the game. We won't get that Housing. We will get the housing that is the single most important Crown Store feature they have ever released, and they will put no more effort into spit and polish than they think is necessary for it to sell in the Store. Like Appearance Change, but more expensive.

Just a simple prediction. I want to be surprised that I am wrong, but, well, not likely.

No, I think you are misunderstanding what I said. I have seen and posted in some of the housing hype threads - some people are totally excited and thanking ZOS for listening to them and making housing available for gold and allowing them to craft items. The distraction is actually working on some people.

I know they aren't giving us this feature completely for free. You don't need to talk down to me but if it makes you feel good, whatever. I am reserving my judgement for actually seeing what is introduced but fully expect there to be a crown store component. I would prefer that they allow us to just buy the items outright but that is not what I expect to happen.

Lets not forget that housing could be a DLC, I kinda doubt that... It'll most likely be base game patch to Morrowind DLC next late Feb or early March, but the time and effort spent with it could easily make it a purchasable DLC (I'm not saying I'm against that, I think a fair exchange is the crux of business).

BTW, I wanted to post this, so I might as well do it here: An in game book worth reading.

House Hlaalu Philosophy of Trade

If you want to understand the essential philosophy of House Hlaalu, examine its coat of arms. Behold the scale: it represents balance, trade, and compromise. These essential concepts influence everything the House seeks to accomplish and directs its activities.
Strive for balance in all things. When the scale tips to one side or the other, someone or something gets short-changed. When someone gets short-changed, unpredictability and strife unbalance the world around us. This idea must be embraced by every member of the House. To achieve freedom from greed, from want, and from strife, all parties in any exchange must find balance.
Trade is the House's weapon, its tool, and its way. The House thrives when value and profit flows between supply and demand. House Hlaalu seeks to maintain open trade with anyone who would engage in honest business. Not even a lowly Ashlander with gold or goods in hand would be turned away. This policy protects and empowers the House. The greatest defense remains a wall built of gold, and many foes have broken against the profitable walls of House Hlaalu.
The most honorable conclusion to any conflict is compromise. When two parties seeking balance come together in any exchange, compromise becomes the natural conclusion. Anything can be achieved if both the left hand and the right hand work together. Not everyone is reasonable, however. Sometimes others must be coaxed into compromise. For that, the House Hlaalu Guard stands ready.

Kuningatar · October 2016

Negative: I have tested the crates, and I do not want this feature to be implemented in the game.

lordrichter wrote: »

GhostwalkerLD wrote: »

One can only hope that everyone pays attention... @ZOS_GinaBruno , @ZOS_MattFiror , et al. But the fact that we still have yet to get a dev response in this thread, and we never had a real dev response in our OTHER Crown Crate thread which got well over 100+ pages... well.. I'm not holding my breath.

They. Have. Nothing. To. Say.

They have nothing to say because they know they screwed the pooch on this one. As much as others want to say "Its not their faults, they just man the forums and are the messengers who have to deal with the actions of their masters, woe is them!" they are still guilty by association of supporting a company that is systematically and intelligently screwing its customer/player base over repeatedly.

This kind of annoys me when people say "its not the fault of the customer service", yeah. It kind of is. Even if not directly, they indirectly support such a thing, they have the choice when looking for a job to work for such a company and what they are willing to personally put up with while employed for that company. Personally for me? If I worked for a company that started doing stuff I knew was intentionally deceptive and dishonest and I could see it happening and had no questions about it? I would quit in a heartbeat and find a new job. Why? Because I have standards. My personal code and dignity is worth more than a paycheck, but I guess some people do not feel so.

Whatever their reasons may be, they are guilty by association. Therefore they have nothing to say here because what can the company say when they have already been called out so many times so blatantly by so many people here that totally 100% realize what they are doing? For most of us at this point there can be no question of what is happening. For a lot of us it were the last straw. (such as myself)

As for housing? I could not care less. Chances are very slim after giving the game a second chance that I will ever give this game another chance with my subscription money because I have already done this dance with other companies (SOE, Cryptic, etc) and nothing ever changes, they just forge on the warpath while stupidly proclaiming how 'successful' and 'wonderful' their game/plans/everything is while their player/customer base basically tells them "NO ITS NOT" and in many cases, customers leave in huge chunks due to mounting frustration.

Its really not a sustainable model that the MMO market is primarily run by right now. This is one huge reasons that the MMO market is so poor at the moment. Everyone trying to get the 'whales' to pay for their absurd crap while neglecting any of the player/customer base that might have actually been loyal/started loyal.

They will figure it out in time. Thing is, by time they do it will be too late. Heck, maybe they already have. Maybe this were a ship they knew were doomed to sink anyway and so they are just going to salvage as much as they possibly can out of it before it all implodes in on itself all together. Judging by the crap they have done over the past year, I would not be too surprised if that were the case.

GhostwalkerLD · October 2016

Negative: I have tested the crates, and I do not want this feature to be implemented in the game.

lordrichter wrote: »

Slurg wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

GhostwalkerLD wrote: »

One can only hope that everyone pays attention... @ZOS_GinaBruno , @ZOS_MattFiror , et al. But the fact that we still have yet to get a dev response in this thread, and we never had a real dev response in our OTHER Crown Crate thread which got well over 100+ pages... well.. I'm not holding my breath.

They. Have. Nothing. To. Say.

Sure they do. About housing! Now we can get super excited about housing and forget all about how awful those crown crates are. Maybe it's the paranoia but I don't think the "Look- over here, shiny housing!" timing was a coincidence.

Uhm. I think you are vastly misunderstanding how excited the forum will be about Housing. At least, in terms of positive excitement. There is nothing in Housing for the forums but another extended "beat up on ZOS" session. At this point in the life of ESO, ZOS is pretty much incapable of making a change like Housing without taking the game further down the Cash Store road. On top of that, if you think that Crown Crates will have nothing to do with housing, and will not revive the whole Crown Crate rant, you have not been paying attention.

Housing could have been the single most important PVE base game feature in the game, and could have been a feature that topped other games out there. We now kow that ZOS is capable of excellence, and ZOS is capable of making a Housing system that is so good that it would outshine the rest of the game. We won't get that Housing. We will get the housing that is the single most important Crown Store feature they have ever released, and they will put no more effort into spit and polish than they think is necessary for it to sell in the Store. Like Appearance Change, but more expensive.

Just a simple prediction. I want to be surprised that I am wrong, but, well, not likely.

We can only hope.. *sighs* I just can't trust anything they say in these videos anymore, since they have a well-established history of doing the complete opposite upon the actual release of whatever new shiny feature they're implementing, or finding some other way to monetize it. We already know the "in game gold only" myth that people are perpetrating on the forums is already debunked, we've seen the datamined crown crate/crown store housing related items already!

Cambruin · October 2016

Other: My feelings are more complex than the above sentiments. (Comment below.)

I feel every game, or at least every MMO requires a gambling mechanic. Crown Crates are exactly that. I also feel that they should contain either fluff or convenience. I'm talking pets, mounts, costumes, motifs, ... as well as consumables, crafting ingredients, recipes, ... Above all; the crates should be a money sink. I'm talking currency required to unlock specific gear, I'm talking ingame gold. Any kind of ingame currency will do.

So all in all, I'm perfectly fine with the Crown Crates. Except for one thing; they should not cost actual crown points.

If the intent behind them is to sincrease revenue, then increase the pricing of your DLCs. I personally find your B2P approach way too lowcost. I bought the game for under 10€ and my 60-day sub costs me 14.95€ Playing LotRO had me spending 35+€ for a mere 60 days. I don't know about others, but I'm certainly willing to pay a lot more than what I'm paying now.
Another approach could be awarding us Crown Keys. Simply award ESO Plus members a certain amount of keys for every month they sub. The keys being the only way to open a crate. You could even have the crates as low % drop rates from group content, but the crate still requiring a key that can only be gotten by being a subscriber.
Either way, I understand the desire and need to make money, but I'm convinced there's better ways to earn it.

So please Zenimax. I fully understand the need to be profitable. The more money you make, the better the game will be. But one of the reasons I play thís game and no other is because of the company behind it. You had a terrible launch, but no company that I know of managed to turn things around as well as you guys have. There's enthousiasm here, there's some genuine tender, loving, care for the product. It makes you stand out. To me it elevates this company and the product to a whole new level. I'm not saying you're flawless, I'm not saying the game is without flaws, but it's an "honest" product. So please do resort to the dishonest approach taken by other companies. You are better than that, you are better than them.
ESO deserves better, you guys deserve better and so do we, the community.

ldzlcs065 · October 2016

Neutral: I have NOT tested the crates, and my feelings are neutral, noncommital, or do not apply.

Personally, I love cosmetics but only love them to a certain degree. So if ZOS raise the drop rate I might be trying these crates and otherwise I will pay no attention to them.

With that said, I'm a little bit surprised that so many people who seem haven't and will not try these things come here to show their unhappiness. However, even with these 11 pages of which most are complaints, I somehow have the feeling that the majority of players will just show indifference on this topic, and that even for those who dislike this idea, not many of them hate it to an extent that they will quit or unsub. So to be frank I don't think I will see ZOS change its opinion towards this mechanism.

Kendaric · October 2016

Negative: I have tested the crates, and I do not want this feature to be implemented in the game.

ldzlcs065 wrote: »

With that said, I'm a little bit surprised that so many people who seem haven't and will not try these things come here to show their unhappiness. However, even with these 11 pages of which most are complaints, I somehow have the feeling that the majority of players will just show indifference on this topic, and that even for those who dislike this idea, not many of them hate it to an extent that they will quit or unsub. So to be frank I don't think I will see ZOS change its opinion towards this mechanism.

Well, a good number of people used the videos that were posted, others already have experience with these scam crates from other games and yet others don't like them on principle.
And, of course, not everybody has access to the PTS to test them.

Whatzituyah · October 2016

Neutral: I have NOT tested the crates, and my feelings are neutral, noncommital, or do not apply.

ldzlcs065 wrote: »

Personally, I love cosmetics but only love them to a certain degree. So if ZOS raise the drop rate I might be trying these crates and otherwise I will pay no attention to them.

With that said, I'm a little bit surprised that so many people who seem haven't and will not try these things come here to show their unhappiness. However, even with these 11 pages of which most are complaints, I somehow have the feeling that the majority of players will just show indifference on this topic, and that even for those who dislike this idea, not many of them hate it to an extent that they will quit or unsub. So to be frank I don't think I will see ZOS change its opinion towards this mechanism.

@ldzlcs065 Thats because its technically not allowed to say they will quit or unsub on the forums as far as Community Rules go! I bet if you asked people to PM how they really feel you will get a different response. But I am not going to go deep in that since conspiracy is also against the rules.

Its almost as if any feedback willing to trigger a response in a negative way to show you mean it gets you in trouble here.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/60843/community-rules#latest

You just can't win any negative feedback is frowned upon and how can something be constructive if their are no positives? Kinda like these crown crates.

ldzlcs065 · October 2016

Neutral: I have NOT tested the crates, and my feelings are neutral, noncommital, or do not apply.

Whatzituyah wrote: »

ldzlcs065 wrote: »

Personally, I love cosmetics but only love them to a certain degree. So if ZOS raise the drop rate I might be trying these crates and otherwise I will pay no attention to them.

With that said, I'm a little bit surprised that so many people who seem haven't and will not try these things come here to show their unhappiness. However, even with these 11 pages of which most are complaints, I somehow have the feeling that the majority of players will just show indifference on this topic, and that even for those who dislike this idea, not many of them hate it to an extent that they will quit or unsub. So to be frank I don't think I will see ZOS change its opinion towards this mechanism.

@ldzlcs065 Thats because its technically not allowed to say they will quit or unsub on the forums as far as Community Rules go! I bet if you asked people to PM how they really feel you will get a different response. But I am not going to go deep in that since conspiracy is also against the rules. Its almost as if any feedback willing to trigger a response in a negative way to show you mean it gets you in trouble here.

Is that so? well, I do see some post suggesting quit or unsub but most just don't mention it. But nevermind, I mainly get my feelings based on in game communication and zone/guild chat.

Whatzituyah · October 2016

Neutral: I have NOT tested the crates, and my feelings are neutral, noncommital, or do not apply.

@ldzlcs065 I will not confirm or deny my feeling towards this idea. Simply because I can't skip around the truth with suggesting.

ldzlcs065 · October 2016

Neutral: I have NOT tested the crates, and my feelings are neutral, noncommital, or do not apply.

Kendaric wrote: »

ldzlcs065 wrote: »

With that said, I'm a little bit surprised that so many people who seem haven't and will not try these things come here to show their unhappiness. However, even with these 11 pages of which most are complaints, I somehow have the feeling that the majority of players will just show indifference on this topic, and that even for those who dislike this idea, not many of them hate it to an extent that they will quit or unsub. So to be frank I don't think I will see ZOS change its opinion towards this mechanism.

Well, a good number of people used the videos that were posted, others already have experience with these scam crates from other games and yet others don't like them on principle.
And, of course, not everybody has access to the PTS to test them.

In fact, I've seen others' experience and expericed such crates (not always scam IMO) from other games. And my stance is always like: I only complain when the game's maker fails to offer good game content or service, not when they fail to offer a good environment? When I feel don't like the environment, I quit but don't complain, because complaining about the environment sounds like that I'm dictating how other players should play this game, that thought makes me feel no good.

Whatzituyah · October 2016

Neutral: I have NOT tested the crates, and my feelings are neutral, noncommital, or do not apply.

ldzlcs065 wrote: »

Kendaric wrote: »

ldzlcs065 wrote: »

With that said, I'm a little bit surprised that so many people who seem haven't and will not try these things come here to show their unhappiness. However, even with these 11 pages of which most are complaints, I somehow have the feeling that the majority of players will just show indifference on this topic, and that even for those who dislike this idea, not many of them hate it to an extent that they will quit or unsub. So to be frank I don't think I will see ZOS change its opinion towards this mechanism.

Well, a good number of people used the videos that were posted, others already have experience with these scam crates from other games and yet others don't like them on principle.
And, of course, not everybody has access to the PTS to test them.

In fact, I've seen others' experience and expericed such crates (not always scam IMO) from other games. And my stance is always like: I only complain when the game's maker fails to offer good game content or service, not when they fail to offer a good environment? When I feel don't like the environment, I quit but don't complain, because complaining about the environment sounds like that I'm dictating how other players should play this game, that thought makes me feel no good.

@ldzlcs065 Does anything get done by just quiting? Your favorite game goes down a dark path and you don't want to try to save it? I know its only opinions of what could "save" and what could "kill" a game but in my opinion we could be seeing what may possibly kill it. Complaining is feedback whether the developers like it or not...

Sorry its early in the morning what I meant was if the environment is bad you should atleast tell them what you think they are doing wrong in my opinion.

ldzlcs065 · October 2016

Neutral: I have NOT tested the crates, and my feelings are neutral, noncommital, or do not apply.

Whatzituyah wrote: »

ldzlcs065 wrote: »

Kendaric wrote: »

ldzlcs065 wrote: »

With that said, I'm a little bit surprised that so many people who seem haven't and will not try these things come here to show their unhappiness. However, even with these 11 pages of which most are complaints, I somehow have the feeling that the majority of players will just show indifference on this topic, and that even for those who dislike this idea, not many of them hate it to an extent that they will quit or unsub. So to be frank I don't think I will see ZOS change its opinion towards this mechanism.

Well, a good number of people used the videos that were posted, others already have experience with these scam crates from other games and yet others don't like them on principle.
And, of course, not everybody has access to the PTS to test them.

In fact, I've seen others' experience and expericed such crates (not always scam IMO) from other games. And my stance is always like: I only complain when the game's maker fails to offer good game content or service, not when they fail to offer a good environment? When I feel don't like the environment, I quit but don't complain, because complaining about the environment sounds like that I'm dictating how other players should play this game, that thought makes me feel no good.

@ldzlcs065 Does anything get done by just quiting? Your favorite game goes down a dark path and you don't want to try to save it? I know its only opinions of what could "save" and what could "kill" a game but in my opinion we could be seeing what may possibly kill it. Complaining is feedback whether the developers like it or not...

Well fist I want you know that I'm not against any of these negative feedback. I'm just posting my opinion which might be different from yours. Basically, no matter which path the eso will go, I will only view it as a path I like or a path I dislike, but not a darker or brighter path. I've experienced such things before. In fact, I played WOW for many years before I turned to ESO. Now I think WOW has taken a completely different path than at its beginning, which have frustrated many old players. But even though WOW don't interest me anymore, I don't think there should be anybody to be responsible for this as long as WOW still attracts many new players and I still hope WOW do good in the future. I think it's just a difference in values so I just post my opinion to clarify the base of my previous post but not to trigger another debate.

And just for your information, this comment is not towards crown crates or status quo of eso, because I don't believe eso is undergoing or will undergo any drastic change in environment due to crown crates or any other reasons. The motive for my posting is some inconsistency I'm feeling, I see a lot of negative feedbacks here and in several posts in PTS, but other than this places I've seen literally no talking about this topic. So I think the truth is: majority of people show indifference towards this idea, a bunch of people is actively against this idea and a few people like this idea.

BruceLeeroy91 · October 2016

Negative: I have NOT tested the crates, and I dislike the idea/direction and/or I dislike what I have read.

DYSEQTA wrote: »

BruceLeeroy91 wrote: »

DYSEQTA wrote: »

BruceLeeroy91 wrote: »

Simple solution, don't freaking buy them, use some self control.

Congratulations on completely missing the point of why these are being added to the game and why they are so terrible. They are predatory, exploitative, and socially irresponsible. They prey on those who are psychologically predisposed to addiction which is an inherent lack of self control. It is psychological manipulation of those with a weakness in this regard. The inherent anonymity of online gaming for most people compounds the problem.

Is crack or ice OK just because you don't feel the need to take it? Are cigarette companies justified in selling addictive, known harmful products to consumers? This is exactly like cigarettes. An industry allowed to continue when it is known to be both harmful and addictive. This is the reason i believe that marketing practices of online gaming companies need to be taken to consumer protection authorities for a closer look, as this is big tobacco all over again.

Try thinking about someone other than yourself for a moment of your life.

...And addicts have always been there to ruin the good fun of others. However your solution of take it away because it's mean is silly and childish...Get over yourself thinking you are so high and mighty defending gambling addicts on the forums.

So I am being high and mighty by trying to ruin the fun of repeatedly spending AU$4.26 to get a potion? Or hundreds of dollars to get an exclusive mount? You have now gone from being self centered to being the proverbial fool. Congratulations.

lol ok I withdraw, I will keep my opinions to myself and enjoy the game

JimT722 · October 2016

Negative: I have NOT tested the crates, and I dislike the idea/direction and/or I dislike what I have read.

BruceLeeroy91 wrote: »

DYSEQTA wrote: »

BruceLeeroy91 wrote: »

DYSEQTA wrote: »

BruceLeeroy91 wrote: »

Simple solution, don't freaking buy them, use some self control.

Congratulations on completely missing the point of why these are being added to the game and why they are so terrible. They are predatory, exploitative, and socially irresponsible. They prey on those who are psychologically predisposed to addiction which is an inherent lack of self control. It is psychological manipulation of those with a weakness in this regard. The inherent anonymity of online gaming for most people compounds the problem.

Is crack or ice OK just because you don't feel the need to take it? Are cigarette companies justified in selling addictive, known harmful products to consumers? This is exactly like cigarettes. An industry allowed to continue when it is known to be both harmful and addictive. This is the reason i believe that marketing practices of online gaming companies need to be taken to consumer protection authorities for a closer look, as this is big tobacco all over again.

Try thinking about someone other than yourself for a moment of your life.

...And addicts have always been there to ruin the good fun of others. However your solution of take it away because it's mean is silly and childish...Get over yourself thinking you are so high and mighty defending gambling addicts on the forums.

So I am being high and mighty by trying to ruin the fun of repeatedly spending AU$4.26 to get a potion? Or hundreds of dollars to get an exclusive mount? You have now gone from being self centered to being the proverbial fool. Congratulations.

How many times have I stated I do not see the fun in them and do not plan on using them. I don't use drugs or alcohol either but I don't think these things should be taken away from the community because of the inability of some to maintain self control. You are obviously (especially when you resort multiple times to nonsensical name calling) feeling like you are up on a high horse fighting against something that should not affect you if you do not want it to. They are not forcing the purchase of these crates on anyone and I am not agreeing with there implementation. However, I just do not agree that they have to be removed because of the unavoidable outcome of some people becoming addicted.

Now that being all said this is still completely 100% speculation as to how these crates will work, so I will save my rage, my unnecessary insults, and my time by not worrying anymore about the crates, and enjoy my game. I sincerely hope you can do the same.

It isn't all speculation. They have been on the pts server. These crown crates aren't being made for the community. It can cost several hundred dollars for an apex reward. While I agree that people should be able to drink or smoke if they want, these don't belong in games. I smoke and even drink or gamble on rare occasions, and I hate the idea of these. Crown crates are not a good thing for the game. I haven't seen a single game not made worse for similar implementations.

Elsonso · October 2016

Negative: I have tested the crates, and I do not want this feature to be implemented in the game.

Whatzituyah wrote: »

@ldzlcs065 Thats because its technically not allowed to say they will quit or unsub on the forums as far as Community Rules go! I bet if you asked people to PM how they really feel you will get a different response.

Actually, it is "legal" to say that you are unsubscribing from ESO Plus. There is nothing in the Community Rules or Terms of Service that explicitly prohibits this. There are plenty of threads out there that discuss unsubscribing, including comments from people willing to say they are doing it. Here is an entire thread on the subject: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/3398693

If the thread, or comment, also touches on leaving the game, or otherwise pulls the thread in that direction, then that is different.

* Goodbye/Quitting Threads: We understand that sometimes people will leave the ESO community, and want to post a “goodbye” or “quitting” thread. Generally, we have found that “goodbye” and “quitting” threads have a tendency to go downhill fast. It is our policy to read the feedback in “goodbye” and “quitting” threads and close them, regardless of whether they are constructive or not.

As for unsubscribing or leaving the game due to Crown Crates, I think this is the wrong thing to do. If you don't like Crown Crates, simply don't buy them. This is what I plan to do, and remind them from time to time that I am doing this. If I unsubscribe, it will be because of the game, not Crown Crates.

I am planning on unsubscribing due to One Tamriel, however, this is delayed due to the fact that I can get some immediate benefit from it. I have characters that can go back and do stuff that was skipped. After that has been exhausted, ESO will be boring because Champion Points make the game scaling too easy. I can either not spend them, or switch to an account that does not have them. If I do the latter, the last thing I want is ESO Plus and the 10% XP boost. (EDIT: Quite simply, the faster I 'level', the quicker I run into the same problems)

verenkutoja wrote: »

They have nothing to say because they know they screwed the pooch on this one.

Dogs aside, they are not saying anything because they really have nothing else to say. They have said everything they intend to say at this point in time. They are going to do Crown Crates, and we know it, so there is no point in repeating that. They have posted what changes they intend to make, and until they make those changes, there isn't much else to say. When people complain that they have not responded, what many of them really mean is that they have not admitted they are wrong and changed their mind. Until ZOS says that, the only thing they can do is repeat what they have already said, or what we already know.

BruceLeeroy91 wrote: »

How many times have I stated I do not see the fun in them and do not plan on using them. I don't use drugs or alcohol either but I don't think these things should be taken away from the community because of the inability of some to maintain self control.

In no manner are Crown Crates and drugs and alcohol equatable at a meaningful level for this discussion.

BruceLeeroy91 wrote: »

Now that being all said this is still completely 100% speculation as to how these crates will work, so I will save my rage, my unnecessary insults, and my time by not worrying anymore about the crates, and enjoy my game. I sincerely hope you can do the same.

We are no where near "100% speculation" anymore regarding how they will work.

BruceLeeroy91 · October 2016

Negative: I have NOT tested the crates, and I dislike the idea/direction and/or I dislike what I have read.

Ok I withdraw ha, I'll have my opinions silently just as easily

But must also point out I did not draw the first comparison to drugs with my discussion, simply continuing the comparison.

Still I withdraw.

GhostwalkerLD · October 2016

Negative: I have tested the crates, and I do not want this feature to be implemented in the game.

JimT722 wrote: »

BruceLeeroy91 wrote: »

DYSEQTA wrote: »

BruceLeeroy91 wrote: »

DYSEQTA wrote: »

BruceLeeroy91 wrote: »

Simple solution, don't freaking buy them, use some self control.

Congratulations on completely missing the point of why these are being added to the game and why they are so terrible. They are predatory, exploitative, and socially irresponsible. They prey on those who are psychologically predisposed to addiction which is an inherent lack of self control. It is psychological manipulation of those with a weakness in this regard. The inherent anonymity of online gaming for most people compounds the problem.

Is crack or ice OK just because you don't feel the need to take it? Are cigarette companies justified in selling addictive, known harmful products to consumers? This is exactly like cigarettes. An industry allowed to continue when it is known to be both harmful and addictive. This is the reason i believe that marketing practices of online gaming companies need to be taken to consumer protection authorities for a closer look, as this is big tobacco all over again.

Try thinking about someone other than yourself for a moment of your life.

...And addicts have always been there to ruin the good fun of others. However your solution of take it away because it's mean is silly and childish...Get over yourself thinking you are so high and mighty defending gambling addicts on the forums.

So I am being high and mighty by trying to ruin the fun of repeatedly spending AU$4.26 to get a potion? Or hundreds of dollars to get an exclusive mount? You have now gone from being self centered to being the proverbial fool. Congratulations.

How many times have I stated I do not see the fun in them and do not plan on using them. I don't use drugs or alcohol either but I don't think these things should be taken away from the community because of the inability of some to maintain self control. You are obviously (especially when you resort multiple times to nonsensical name calling) feeling like you are up on a high horse fighting against something that should not affect you if you do not want it to. They are not forcing the purchase of these crates on anyone and I am not agreeing with there implementation. However, I just do not agree that they have to be removed because of the unavoidable outcome of some people becoming addicted.

Now that being all said this is still completely 100% speculation as to how these crates will work, so I will save my rage, my unnecessary insults, and my time by not worrying anymore about the crates, and enjoy my game. I sincerely hope you can do the same.

It isn't all speculation. They have been on the pts server. These crown crates aren't being made for the community. It can cost several hundred dollars for an apex reward. While I agree that people should be able to drink or smoke if they want, these don't belong in games. I smoke and even drink or gamble on rare occasions, and I hate the idea of these. Crown crates are not a good thing for the game. I haven't seen a single game not made worse for similar implementations.

Well said, it still amazes me how many people don't seem to understand the concept that not only is this not "speculation" (we have them on the PTS server and they've been there for weeks now), but we've seen how these RNG crates/lockboxes have affected every single game they've been put in, without exception causing a drop in overall game quality and a shift in development focus towards "more shinies" for the crates.

Abeille · October 2016

Negative: I have tested the crates, and I do not want this feature to be implemented in the game.

Every day, when I log on my main character, I sigh on relief when I see her pet.
I almost passed on Beryl, my Turquoise Nixad, because I was waiting for the Orchid Nixad, which seem to be a Crown Crate exclusive. Almost.

I imagine people who did pass on certain pet or mount recolor because they were waiting for another one, one that turned out to be a Crown Crate exclusive, probably aren't very happy right now.

UrQuan · October 2016

Negative: I have tested the crates, and I do not want this feature to be implemented in the game.

lordrichter wrote: »

As for unsubscribing or leaving the game due to Crown Crates, I think this is the wrong thing to do. If you don't like Crown Crates, simply don't buy them. This is what I plan to do, and remind them from time to time that I am doing this. If I unsubscribe, it will be because of the game, not Crown Crates.

I can't agree with that at all. The wrong thing to do is to continue to give your money to a company that you know is acting in an unethical manner.

If I know a company is exploiting people (workers, customers, whoever) they don't get my money, period. I won't buy from them, I won't invest in them. For my entire adult life I've worked for a company that literally only exists to improve the lives of it's customers and the communities where it operates. I'm not about to let my money go to a company that I know is being actively predatory and exploitative.

My values and morals are a lot more important to me than any gameplay. I'd be a hypocrite if they weren't. If the implementation of crown crates on live isn't sufficiently changed from the implementation on PTS, I'm out of here because it would be wrong for me to continue to support ZOS.

I'm holding off on making that decision because crown crates don't necessarily have to be exploitative. They could be implemented in a manner that isn't predatory, while still being profitable for ZOS. If they do that then I'll be happy and I'll stick around. I still almost definitely wouldn't buy them, but if they don't make those changes it would be morally and ethically wrong for me to stay. My values dictate how I live every part of my life, if I won't compromise them when I'm making bigger and more important decisions, why would I compromise them for a game?