What do you think of Crown Crates? -- New Poll for PTS Implementation

hrothbern

Other: My feelings are more complex than the above sentiments. (Comment below.)

lordrichter wrote: »

hrothbern wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

FireCowCommando wrote: »

4% positive, 17% neutral, 77% negative.

100% a feature that took a huge amount of hours of coding, artwork, and game developer design to decide how to implement this system.

There is at least a small chance that ZoS will take the Crown Crate failure to heart, and change the way they plan to introduce housing into the game, but i doubt it.

That 4% is what ZOS probably calls a "good start". Once Crates are introduced, that 4% will grow handsomely as new players just consider it normal for a cheap knock-off MMO to offer them, and a way for them to pay to catch up to those older players that remain.

I worked for more than 30 years in a global industrial B2B service business, and got regular trainings, mostly Business to Consumer tweaked to B2B and "completed" with interesting B2B cases, because so little is available on Service Business to Business.
And that marketing knowledge is also a bit dusty....


but from what I remember, any positive user acceptance percentage below 15% is real bad,
and 3 or 4% is in the zone of a so called "fatal error".

Yeah, but you have to remember that ZOS looks at their customer base and sees a bunch of people moving in and out of the game. They leave and come back. New people join the game. Old people leave the game. A lot of churn. They expect it. My thought is that they can afford to annoy their current base because a year from now, the base will be different. If they introduce the Crown Crates in November 2016, by November 2017 the base will be much more happy with them, and looking for more.

As with Buy 2 Play, the player demographics will shift to a place where the base supports Crown Crates.

I do not assume that ZOS/Bethesda Marketing is dumb or stupid. There is no other reason for them to drive Crown Crates like it is the second coming. If they thought this would spiral them out of business, they would not be ramming these things through no matter what. I have no background in marketing, but I have to look at it like this.

This is why I expect a transition to F2P in the next few months. This opens the door for new players, Crown Crate friendly players, to join the community. Crown Crates will give them a perfect opportunity to collect all the Bling they did not get when ZOS was being "unreasonable" and charging for the game. If we do not buy Crown Crates, and even if we do, ZOS will bring in players that will buy them and not complain.

Good that you outlined this F2P element in the Crown Crate discussion.
It matters.

Nice challenge for Matt and his team to keep the no doubt dazzling marketing presentations about growth etc from affecting an enjoyable community

Infinite12

Theso polls are useless. Zenimax is going to do whatever they want no matter what you say.

Ilsabet

Negative: I have NOT tested the crates, and I dislike the idea/direction and/or I dislike what I have read.

After having caught up on the last 3-4 pages of this thread...

Of course you can always ignore this feature and not buy the crown crates. That's the sensible thing to do.

But when the only way to not lose is to not participate, it makes you wonder why the feature is in the game at all.

IrishGirlGamer

Neutral: I have NOT tested the crates, and my feelings are neutral, noncommital, or do not apply.

UrQuan wrote: »

AmberLaTerra wrote: »

Morimizo wrote: »

I received a reply to my earlier response from Petyr at ZOS:

"Thank you for the feedback. I'll pass this along to the dev team. I appreciate you sharing it with me, it shows that you WERE very passionate about the game."

I responded,


Fixed the quote.


Petyr, to be very clear about why this devious selling tactic is so disheartening, I would have quite happily purchased many of the items available on the new Crown Gem part of the store had they been offered as straight-up purchases; like I have for the past year and a half (check your records, I'm sure you'll find my investment to be significant). But it wasn't enough apparently, and I need to be fooled out of giving more money, and not necessarily (edit: not likely) getting what I desired. How long will it be before Skill Lines and DLCs find their way into these crates? It doesn't have to be "pay to win" items, these crates will limit variety in all aspects of the game, not just cosmetics/aesthetics.


Whoever green-lighted this decision is someone I will never support again, and that is not an RNG box, you may consider that an absolute.


I feel great sympathy for those who have to be on the front line defending this filth. Please know that my ire is not meant for customer service representatives or the fine folks developing the actual game content. It is completely reserved for the gold-sickness-stricken stockholder-sycophant managers that think it's perfectly fine to gouge their player base of every coin, without any guarantee of them actually receiving what they wanted in return. It's thievery, and may Sheogorath himself come up with a most fitting curse for the remainder of their existence. Something akin to being transformed into a block of Colovian cheddar and being eternally gnawed on by skeevers...

Unfortunately I must say in reply to my long e-mail about cancling my sub and listing the reasons why these crates are bad and sever ways how they could be made bearable (only costing 100 crowns with a sure mount within 2500 crowns and so forth) if we indeed have to suffer them though stating over all just not adding them at all would be the ideal solution. I got the exact same reply from Petyr so I must assume it may just be the cookie cutter answer.

I hope I am wrong but it looks like that is all it is.

Well, for what it's worth the reply I got from Petyr was definitely not a cookie-cutter answer. I think they are reading the feedback in emails (and hopefully the feedback on the forums too). Whether the people on the crown crate team are actually making any changes based on that feedback is anybody's guess.

I hope you are right. Really.

Infinite12 wrote: »

Theso polls are useless. Zenimax is going to do whatever they want no matter what you say.

I really disagree with this. Expressing an opinion is not always a waste of time. Sometimes enough voices can change a game, effect a political arena, topple a government, end a wrongful practice.

If it was just a few voices saying this is wrong, then that would be one thing. Yet even that would demonstrate the majority does not agree. But when a majority speaks out against something, and Zenimax continues anyway, they do so with the knowledge that they are acting in their own interests and not in the interest of their players.

Kuningatar

Negative: I have tested the crates, and I do not want this feature to be implemented in the game.

GhostwalkerLD wrote: »

verenkutoja wrote: »

From the previous threads;

verenkutoja
✭✭
No, don't ever add these into the game.
Personally in response to this and other repeated behaviours from Zenimax, I have cancelled my subscription. I will not support such treatment of the player base and I certainly will not support 'gamble boxes'

In the future if something worthy of my attention were released, I might return, but right now? It looks pretty grim. I have cancelled by subscription once before shortly after the game switch to B2P due to the fact that Zenimax repeatedly lied claiming they would never come off the subscription model, so this is just a repeat of their usual lies and crap.

That and I opened a ticket asking for help with something, in spite of being perfectly reasonable and not at all abusive or profane, my ticket were set to 'solved' repeatedly without being given any answer to it. Even when I told them point blank "You can not just set a ticket to solved and assume its solved, I want a human response." - never got one until I cancelled my subscription and filed a new ticket explaining exactly why I cancelled. That to be honest were the last straw that I could tolerate.

--

verenkutoja
✭✭
No, don't ever add these into the game.
People want 'citation' as proof that Zenimax ever said they would not come off the subscription model, firstly that is not even really relevant to this thread, it were just something I brought up as one of my personal grievances. But you want citation? I can not pull up any videos, any forum posts, or anything like that. I am sure those opposed to my opinion will claim this proves I am wrong, but seriously.. keep deluding yourself, you really think Zenimax is not and has not lied and does not continue to lie?

Get a clue. They are a corporation. Corporations in large are almost exclusively dishonest and deceptive, its the 'modus operandi' for business practices.

Come on, I give people more credit than that. I can not believe anyone would be so blind as to not see it, you know the way they always word things in such a way that shines them in an unquestioningly positive light no matter what happens or what is done? You know how they keep saying We have no 'plans' at this time to/for - That is it, right there. That is the dishonesty, that is the deception. You know what people think and thought when they read that.

Its intentionally and intelligently deceptive too. Screw your player base over and make sure to word things in such a way that you can claim you are not responsible and surely some white knights will rise up to defend your company because they are apparently not wise enough to figure out what is actually going on.

I myself have emails from them in which they point blank told me back when I were fearing the worst for the game (near its launch) that they had no 'plans' to abandon the subscription model and it were working quite well for them and were successful. They literally said this point blank to me. Shortly thereafter? Game goes B2P.

You seriously think that were not planned? Honestly?

You are idealistic and naïve if you believe so. This were planned from the start.

Promise all this amazing stuff, spin everything in such an incredibly positive light, and get die hard fans hyped so that they pony down on your €110 collectors edition, so that they stay subscribed until the very end, the very end which by the way just happened to coincidentally coincide just a few months with the timing of their console launch and then open a crown store that offers everything (including a recoloured version of the 'exclusive senche mount' and even the then exclusive and no longer exclusive mudcrab pet) to screw your early supporters over extra hard and give everyone else the chance to get basically the same thing, of course for money.

Its all incredibly and intentionally, intelligently manipulative. If you can not see it, you are blind.

If you still love the game, good for you. I never disliked the game to be honest, I just dislike Zenimax' business practices.

You can keep defending them until the very end, it will find you in the same place as everyone else. Screwed with your butt in the air, sore, and wondering what happened and how it all went wrong.

To be perfectly honest, lately I am just fed up with mmos in general. "Back in the day" the mmo industry produced quality games with very few bugs and good game play. They actually tried. Now? Now they have fools (I am one of those fools) that fall for their hype and pay for something before its released, even PAY TO BETA TEST FOR THEM which is ridiculous. Nothing is how it used to be and the business model that mmos currently push is not sustainable, its killing the industry.

NOTE: the citation for them promising to not come off the subscription model were later found here


I stand by all I have said. This is an intelligent design, nothing they have done have been by chance or 'coincidence', Zenimax have actively and intelligently and repeatedly screwed their customer base over, lied to them outright, and abused the good faith of their players time and time again, offering their fake smiles and 'happy' customer support in response while giving no real solution to the problem.

Same tired dance of other mmos. I still think I was a fool to have hope in Zenimax and expect something better.

That pretty much sums it up perfectly. And I'm very sad to read that news post about the monthly sub fee and plans, and all the things that they said and I remember thinking at the time, "Oh, FINALLY, an MMO that gets it..."

And now we can look back now and see them breaking every single one of those statements, one right after another, even after paying lip service to the fact that doing so "goes against every principle we feel the ESO game should be based on." All of it summed up so neatly in that article.

Bravo. Now I'm even more depressed. Arghhh...

That were my problem. I had the foolish expectation based off the fact that this were Zenimax' first mmo that they would somehow do things differently since they did not have the experience of other companies. At first I shrugged all the things that went wrong with the beta off, all the bugs, all the problems, all the complaints as being "they are a company new to mmos, its only natural they make mistakes. They have no experience, they are growing." that were incredibly naïve of me because now looking back, its clear that they had all this planned as an eventuality.

Maybe they originally intended to stay on the subscription model, maybe they did not; it hardly matters. If they did intend to, they had a plan already set up for if the subscription model failed to pull in the numbers they 'wanted' (which does not have to be enough numbers to be successful or sustainable even, just whether or not the numbers netted them a significant profit over costs) - if they did not intend to, then they still had everything planned in advance.

The point is the way things have progressed flawlessly from one lie and broken promise to another is evidence that every single move they have made have been something they had premeditated from the start. At literally no point have they been caught 'unawares' by anything that happened, that might not be such a bad thing if it did not prove the fact that their practices are so utterly deceptive, manipulative, and downright dishonest and disrespectful to the player/customer base.

I can understand why you are depressed, I am too. I regret dropping over €100 on that collectors edition and staying subbed until they changed everything to "Tamriel Unlimited" 6 months later, I regret literally everything I did. But you know? Pick up the pieces and moved on.

I moved to a new mmo where I am happy right now and having fun. They now have my subscription money for ESO + the extra money I spend for little nicknacks here and there and Zenimax? They will get nothing more from me.

They are liars, cheats, and frauds. Just straight out.

Cazzy

Negative: I have tested the crates, and I do not want this feature to be implemented in the game.

verenkutoja wrote: »

GhostwalkerLD wrote: »

verenkutoja wrote: »

From the previous threads;

verenkutoja
✭✭
No, don't ever add these into the game.
Personally in response to this and other repeated behaviours from Zenimax, I have cancelled my subscription. I will not support such treatment of the player base and I certainly will not support 'gamble boxes'

In the future if something worthy of my attention were released, I might return, but right now? It looks pretty grim. I have cancelled by subscription once before shortly after the game switch to B2P due to the fact that Zenimax repeatedly lied claiming they would never come off the subscription model, so this is just a repeat of their usual lies and crap.

That and I opened a ticket asking for help with something, in spite of being perfectly reasonable and not at all abusive or profane, my ticket were set to 'solved' repeatedly without being given any answer to it. Even when I told them point blank "You can not just set a ticket to solved and assume its solved, I want a human response." - never got one until I cancelled my subscription and filed a new ticket explaining exactly why I cancelled. That to be honest were the last straw that I could tolerate.

--

verenkutoja
✭✭
No, don't ever add these into the game.
People want 'citation' as proof that Zenimax ever said they would not come off the subscription model, firstly that is not even really relevant to this thread, it were just something I brought up as one of my personal grievances. But you want citation? I can not pull up any videos, any forum posts, or anything like that. I am sure those opposed to my opinion will claim this proves I am wrong, but seriously.. keep deluding yourself, you really think Zenimax is not and has not lied and does not continue to lie?

Get a clue. They are a corporation. Corporations in large are almost exclusively dishonest and deceptive, its the 'modus operandi' for business practices.

Come on, I give people more credit than that. I can not believe anyone would be so blind as to not see it, you know the way they always word things in such a way that shines them in an unquestioningly positive light no matter what happens or what is done? You know how they keep saying We have no 'plans' at this time to/for - That is it, right there. That is the dishonesty, that is the deception. You know what people think and thought when they read that.

Its intentionally and intelligently deceptive too. Screw your player base over and make sure to word things in such a way that you can claim you are not responsible and surely some white knights will rise up to defend your company because they are apparently not wise enough to figure out what is actually going on.

I myself have emails from them in which they point blank told me back when I were fearing the worst for the game (near its launch) that they had no 'plans' to abandon the subscription model and it were working quite well for them and were successful. They literally said this point blank to me. Shortly thereafter? Game goes B2P.

You seriously think that were not planned? Honestly?

You are idealistic and naïve if you believe so. This were planned from the start.

Promise all this amazing stuff, spin everything in such an incredibly positive light, and get die hard fans hyped so that they pony down on your €110 collectors edition, so that they stay subscribed until the very end, the very end which by the way just happened to coincidentally coincide just a few months with the timing of their console launch and then open a crown store that offers everything (including a recoloured version of the 'exclusive senche mount' and even the then exclusive and no longer exclusive mudcrab pet) to screw your early supporters over extra hard and give everyone else the chance to get basically the same thing, of course for money.

Its all incredibly and intentionally, intelligently manipulative. If you can not see it, you are blind.

If you still love the game, good for you. I never disliked the game to be honest, I just dislike Zenimax' business practices.

You can keep defending them until the very end, it will find you in the same place as everyone else. Screwed with your butt in the air, sore, and wondering what happened and how it all went wrong.

To be perfectly honest, lately I am just fed up with mmos in general. "Back in the day" the mmo industry produced quality games with very few bugs and good game play. They actually tried. Now? Now they have fools (I am one of those fools) that fall for their hype and pay for something before its released, even PAY TO BETA TEST FOR THEM which is ridiculous. Nothing is how it used to be and the business model that mmos currently push is not sustainable, its killing the industry.

NOTE: the citation for them promising to not come off the subscription model were later found here


I stand by all I have said. This is an intelligent design, nothing they have done have been by chance or 'coincidence', Zenimax have actively and intelligently and repeatedly screwed their customer base over, lied to them outright, and abused the good faith of their players time and time again, offering their fake smiles and 'happy' customer support in response while giving no real solution to the problem.

Same tired dance of other mmos. I still think I was a fool to have hope in Zenimax and expect something better.

That pretty much sums it up perfectly. And I'm very sad to read that news post about the monthly sub fee and plans, and all the things that they said and I remember thinking at the time, "Oh, FINALLY, an MMO that gets it..."

And now we can look back now and see them breaking every single one of those statements, one right after another, even after paying lip service to the fact that doing so "goes against every principle we feel the ESO game should be based on." All of it summed up so neatly in that article.

Bravo. Now I'm even more depressed. Arghhh...

That were my problem. I had the foolish expectation based off the fact that this were Zenimax' first mmo that they would somehow do things differently since they did not have the experience of other companies. At first I shrugged all the things that went wrong with the beta off, all the bugs, all the problems, all the complaints as being "they are a company new to mmos, its only natural they make mistakes. They have no experience, they are growing." that were incredibly naïve of me because now looking back, its clear that they had all this planned as an eventuality.

Maybe they originally intended to stay on the subscription model, maybe they did not; it hardly matters. If they did intend to, they had a plan already set up for if the subscription model failed to pull in the numbers they 'wanted' (which does not have to be enough numbers to be successful or sustainable even, just whether or not the numbers netted them a significant profit over costs) - if they did not intend to, then they still had everything planned in advance.

The point is the way things have progressed flawlessly from one lie and broken promise to another is evidence that every single move they have made have been something they had premeditated from the start. At literally no point have they been caught 'unawares' by anything that happened, that might not be such a bad thing if it did not prove the fact that their practices are so utterly deceptive, manipulative, and downright dishonest and disrespectful to the player/customer base.

I can understand why you are depressed, I am too. I regret dropping over €100 on that collectors edition and staying subbed until they changed everything to "Tamriel Unlimited" 6 months later, I regret literally everything I did. But you know? Pick up the pieces and moved on.

I moved to a new mmo where I am happy right now and having fun. They now have my subscription money for ESO + the extra money I spend for little nicknacks here and there and Zenimax? They will get nothing more from me.

They are liars, cheats, and frauds. Just straight out.

I've done the same. Playing Dragon Age: Inquisition again - the DLC is awesome!

RAGUNAnoOne

Other: My feelings are more complex than the above sentiments. (Comment below.)

IrishGirlGamer wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

AmberLaTerra wrote: »

Morimizo wrote: »

I received a reply to my earlier response from Petyr at ZOS:

"Thank you for the feedback. I'll pass this along to the dev team. I appreciate you sharing it with me, it shows that you WERE very passionate about the game."

I responded,


Fixed the quote.


Petyr, to be very clear about why this devious selling tactic is so disheartening, I would have quite happily purchased many of the items available on the new Crown Gem part of the store had they been offered as straight-up purchases; like I have for the past year and a half (check your records, I'm sure you'll find my investment to be significant). But it wasn't enough apparently, and I need to be fooled out of giving more money, and not necessarily (edit: not likely) getting what I desired. How long will it be before Skill Lines and DLCs find their way into these crates? It doesn't have to be "pay to win" items, these crates will limit variety in all aspects of the game, not just cosmetics/aesthetics.


Whoever green-lighted this decision is someone I will never support again, and that is not an RNG box, you may consider that an absolute.


I feel great sympathy for those who have to be on the front line defending this filth. Please know that my ire is not meant for customer service representatives or the fine folks developing the actual game content. It is completely reserved for the gold-sickness-stricken stockholder-sycophant managers that think it's perfectly fine to gouge their player base of every coin, without any guarantee of them actually receiving what they wanted in return. It's thievery, and may Sheogorath himself come up with a most fitting curse for the remainder of their existence. Something akin to being transformed into a block of Colovian cheddar and being eternally gnawed on by skeevers...

Unfortunately I must say in reply to my long e-mail about cancling my sub and listing the reasons why these crates are bad and sever ways how they could be made bearable (only costing 100 crowns with a sure mount within 2500 crowns and so forth) if we indeed have to suffer them though stating over all just not adding them at all would be the ideal solution. I got the exact same reply from Petyr so I must assume it may just be the cookie cutter answer.

I hope I am wrong but it looks like that is all it is.

Well, for what it's worth the reply I got from Petyr was definitely not a cookie-cutter answer. I think they are reading the feedback in emails (and hopefully the feedback on the forums too). Whether the people on the crown crate team are actually making any changes based on that feedback is anybody's guess.

I hope you are right. Really.

Infinite12 wrote: »

Theso polls are useless. Zenimax is going to do whatever they want no matter what you say.

I really disagree with this. Expressing an opinion is not always a waste of time. Sometimes enough voices can change a game, effect a political arena, topple a government, end a wrongful practice.

If it was just a few voices saying this is wrong, then that would be one thing. Yet even that would demonstrate the majority does not agree. But when a majority speaks out against something, and Zenimax continues anyway, they do so with the knowledge that they are acting in their own interests and not in the interest of their players.

Sorry to say this but have you seen the poll and discussion about AOE caps? History is doomed to repeat itself...

jeevin

Negative: I have NOT tested the crates, and I dislike the idea/direction and/or I dislike what I have read.

RAGUNAnoOne wrote: »

IrishGirlGamer wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

AmberLaTerra wrote: »

Morimizo wrote: »

I received a reply to my earlier response from Petyr at ZOS:

"Thank you for the feedback. I'll pass this along to the dev team. I appreciate you sharing it with me, it shows that you WERE very passionate about the game."

I responded,


Fixed the quote.


Petyr, to be very clear about why this devious selling tactic is so disheartening, I would have quite happily purchased many of the items available on the new Crown Gem part of the store had they been offered as straight-up purchases; like I have for the past year and a half (check your records, I'm sure you'll find my investment to be significant). But it wasn't enough apparently, and I need to be fooled out of giving more money, and not necessarily (edit: not likely) getting what I desired. How long will it be before Skill Lines and DLCs find their way into these crates? It doesn't have to be "pay to win" items, these crates will limit variety in all aspects of the game, not just cosmetics/aesthetics.


Whoever green-lighted this decision is someone I will never support again, and that is not an RNG box, you may consider that an absolute.


I feel great sympathy for those who have to be on the front line defending this filth. Please know that my ire is not meant for customer service representatives or the fine folks developing the actual game content. It is completely reserved for the gold-sickness-stricken stockholder-sycophant managers that think it's perfectly fine to gouge their player base of every coin, without any guarantee of them actually receiving what they wanted in return. It's thievery, and may Sheogorath himself come up with a most fitting curse for the remainder of their existence. Something akin to being transformed into a block of Colovian cheddar and being eternally gnawed on by skeevers...

Unfortunately I must say in reply to my long e-mail about cancling my sub and listing the reasons why these crates are bad and sever ways how they could be made bearable (only costing 100 crowns with a sure mount within 2500 crowns and so forth) if we indeed have to suffer them though stating over all just not adding them at all would be the ideal solution. I got the exact same reply from Petyr so I must assume it may just be the cookie cutter answer.

I hope I am wrong but it looks like that is all it is.

Well, for what it's worth the reply I got from Petyr was definitely not a cookie-cutter answer. I think they are reading the feedback in emails (and hopefully the feedback on the forums too). Whether the people on the crown crate team are actually making any changes based on that feedback is anybody's guess.

I hope you are right. Really.

Infinite12 wrote: »

Theso polls are useless. Zenimax is going to do whatever they want no matter what you say.

I really disagree with this. Expressing an opinion is not always a waste of time. Sometimes enough voices can change a game, effect a political arena, topple a government, end a wrongful practice.

If it was just a few voices saying this is wrong, then that would be one thing. Yet even that would demonstrate the majority does not agree. But when a majority speaks out against something, and Zenimax continues anyway, they do so with the knowledge that they are acting in their own interests and not in the interest of their players.

Sorry to say this but have you seen the poll and discussion about AOE caps? History is doomed to repeat itself...

Aoe caps don't cost real money. Hundreds of $$. Crown Crates show the minds at the top of Zos are morally bankrupt and condone(enforce?) predatory business practices. Big difference in my opinion.

IrishGirlGamer

Neutral: I have NOT tested the crates, and my feelings are neutral, noncommital, or do not apply.

RAGUNAnoOne wrote: »

IrishGirlGamer wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

AmberLaTerra wrote: »

Morimizo wrote: »

I received a reply to my earlier response from Petyr at ZOS:

"Thank you for the feedback. I'll pass this along to the dev team. I appreciate you sharing it with me, it shows that you WERE very passionate about the game."

I responded,


Fixed the quote.


Petyr, to be very clear about why this devious selling tactic is so disheartening, I would have quite happily purchased many of the items available on the new Crown Gem part of the store had they been offered as straight-up purchases; like I have for the past year and a half (check your records, I'm sure you'll find my investment to be significant). But it wasn't enough apparently, and I need to be fooled out of giving more money, and not necessarily (edit: not likely) getting what I desired. How long will it be before Skill Lines and DLCs find their way into these crates? It doesn't have to be "pay to win" items, these crates will limit variety in all aspects of the game, not just cosmetics/aesthetics.


Whoever green-lighted this decision is someone I will never support again, and that is not an RNG box, you may consider that an absolute.


I feel great sympathy for those who have to be on the front line defending this filth. Please know that my ire is not meant for customer service representatives or the fine folks developing the actual game content. It is completely reserved for the gold-sickness-stricken stockholder-sycophant managers that think it's perfectly fine to gouge their player base of every coin, without any guarantee of them actually receiving what they wanted in return. It's thievery, and may Sheogorath himself come up with a most fitting curse for the remainder of their existence. Something akin to being transformed into a block of Colovian cheddar and being eternally gnawed on by skeevers...

Unfortunately I must say in reply to my long e-mail about cancling my sub and listing the reasons why these crates are bad and sever ways how they could be made bearable (only costing 100 crowns with a sure mount within 2500 crowns and so forth) if we indeed have to suffer them though stating over all just not adding them at all would be the ideal solution. I got the exact same reply from Petyr so I must assume it may just be the cookie cutter answer.

I hope I am wrong but it looks like that is all it is.

Well, for what it's worth the reply I got from Petyr was definitely not a cookie-cutter answer. I think they are reading the feedback in emails (and hopefully the feedback on the forums too). Whether the people on the crown crate team are actually making any changes based on that feedback is anybody's guess.

I hope you are right. Really.

Infinite12 wrote: »

Theso polls are useless. Zenimax is going to do whatever they want no matter what you say.

I really disagree with this. Expressing an opinion is not always a waste of time. Sometimes enough voices can change a game, effect a political arena, topple a government, end a wrongful practice.

If it was just a few voices saying this is wrong, then that would be one thing. Yet even that would demonstrate the majority does not agree. But when a majority speaks out against something, and Zenimax continues anyway, they do so with the knowledge that they are acting in their own interests and not in the interest of their players.

Sorry to say this but have you seen the poll and discussion about AOE caps? History is doomed to repeat itself...

I hear you. There have been lot of valid points raised and some of them have been completely ignored by Zenimax. They have even promised us some changes that have never occurred. I get that.

But while a protest against an action may fail to change the action; silence guarantees it will never change.

Mercutio

Neutral: I have NOT tested the crates, and my feelings are neutral, noncommital, or do not apply.

Rosveen wrote: »

Milvan wrote: »

There is two discussions going on on PTS, there is another topic here in general discussion that ende up in just blatant and shallow hate and yet we need another topic about these boxes? Did someone tell you guys that they are cosmetic and not mandotory to buy at all? I mean they don't affect any gameplay mechanic at all?

For the eight and our yet to be born lord and savior Talor, this is why there is always a interplanar demon thing trying to destroy Nirn. You guys makes me want to destroy Nirn too XD

For some of us, video games are about more than just combat. Character customization, also in its visual aspect, is a huge part of modern RPGs - even more so when it comes to MMORPGs, which are a social experience by nature. If you think cosmetics don't matter, ask yourself why so many people, even those who never roleplay, spend hours in character creation instead of pressing "randomize", naming the char Sjapfjfbwj and jumping straight into the game.

Well said. I spend hours on customization. I suppose it is the main part of the game for me, actually. I understand that some players simply don't get that, that they are happy to just wear the vanilla armor they make. More power to them. But ESO offers a variety of play styles and options and us 'cosmetic players' have a very valid concern about seeing something super cool and not being able to purchase it directly.

Like most here I could spend two or three hundred a month to "catch them all", but I refuse to do so on principle if nothing else.

The crates aren't a deal breaker for me, but if the worst case scenario comes true I will be very disappointed.

Mercutio

Neutral: I have NOT tested the crates, and my feelings are neutral, noncommital, or do not apply.

lordrichter wrote: »

Yeah, but you have to remember that ZOS looks at their customer base and sees a bunch of people moving in and out of the game. They leave and come back. New people join the game. Old people leave the game. A lot of churn. They expect it. My thought is that they can afford to annoy their current base because a year from now, the base will be different. If they introduce the Crown Crates in November 2016, by November 2017 the base will be much more happy with them, and looking for more.

As with Buy 2 Play, the player demographics will shift to a place where the base supports Crown Crates.

I do not assume that ZOS/Bethesda Marketing is dumb or stupid. There is no other reason for them to drive Crown Crates like it is the second coming. If they thought this would spiral them out of business, they would not be ramming these things through no matter what. I have no background in marketing, but I have to look at it like this.

This is why I expect a transition to F2P in the next few months. This opens the door for new players, Crown Crate friendly players, to join the community. Crown Crates will give them a perfect opportunity to collect all the Bling they did not get when ZOS was being "unreasonable" and charging for the game. If we do not buy Crown Crates, and even if we do, ZOS will bring in players that will buy them and not complain.

I just want to say that this is the best post in the thread so far. I disagree with you about the timing of F2P but agree it is an inevitability. Other than that, 100% spot on, rational, and hyperbole-free. Kudos.

Mercutio

Neutral: I have NOT tested the crates, and my feelings are neutral, noncommital, or do not apply.

If the skeleton mounts are locked behind the Crown Crates that will suck.

Mercutio

Neutral: I have NOT tested the crates, and my feelings are neutral, noncommital, or do not apply.

Please excuse the repost I am making. It is from the original thread and I am resharing on the chance that the devs did not see it there but may see it here:

I'm not sure why ESO would make this move and risk alienating their most passionate fans when there is a really simple, easy to implement pair of fixes that would erase the majority of complaints, at least for us Cosmetics Players:

1) Make any Crown Crate Only Cosmetic available in the store six months later.

The whales and gamblers will still want to purchase the Crown Crates because six months is a long time in gaming, and they will have half a year to be the coolest kids on the block with the shiny new toy. Those of us who do not like the Crown Crates but are heavily invested in the cosmetic aspects of the game will be placated in the knowledge that down the road we will be able to purchase said item(s).

No matter the polish of the advertising or spin, some of us (a great deal by the size of this thread) will simply never find the concept appealing. My children love "blind bags". I do not. I don't gamble, never have.

Like many adults, if I want something I am accustomed to just buying it. And I have bought a good bit from the cash shop in ESO. I actually look forward to seeing what the new items will be each month and I set aside part of my entertainment budget to obtain the new mounts/costumes etc. that appeal to me. Why would you want to implement a system that lessens my desire to spend money on your products?

2) Implement an annual weekend where everything that has been released in the store or Crown Crates, except for items introduced in the past six months, is made available for purchase.

Even if the prices were doubled, say 5000 Crowns for a mount instead of 2500, people who missed out on an item they really, really want would be able to obtain it. This would create a massive amount of good will on your company's end in addition to making a ton of money. Perhaps the sale could coincide with whatever sales quarter you would desire to show increased revenue?

Maybe it could also be a Christmas like event where, in addition to buying for ourselves, we could buy for others as presents.
New players to the game would not feel like they are going to be forever missing out on cool content. It would in effect erase the cosmetic castes of Veteran Player vs. New Player. Speaking as a Veteran Player myself, I have no problem with new players being able to get the same items I have. It's more money for ESO and would enhance retention rates. Win/win.

It is my sincere hope that you will give my ideas some consideration. They seem to me to offer you the Crown Crate profits you understandably desire while also acknowledging and resolving a major source of customer dissatisfaction.

Esquire1980g_ESO

Negative: I have NOT tested the crates, and I dislike the idea/direction and/or I dislike what I have read.

Well, here's the response I got from the buy 3 get 1 free month email. ("Please be advised that the names have changed to protect the innocent" and I have blanked out our MMORPG name, site, and links)


Subject


Buy 3 month, get 1 month free!



Response By (Petyr) (10/03/2016 06:58 PM)



Greetings,



Thank you for the feedback on the Crown Crates. You've definitely made up your mind, and it looks like you've got yourself set on a good path for your future.



I, for one, am a fan of the saying, "If what you want isn't out there, make your own." and it looks like you and yours are on your way to something big. I hope, truly, that this works out for you.



I wish you all the best and I hope you are a huge success.



Thanks,



Petyr



Elder Scrolls Online

ZeniMax Online Studios



Customer By XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX



I regret that I can not take your up on your offer. It seems that ZOS has made a fundamental miss-read of their playerbase. Not uncommon with MMORPG studios tho. (1st one I was involved with was SOE's CU/NGE/C6CD.)




Did it ever occur to your company that you had the last AAA MMORPG without lockboxes and that was/is a large part of your customers wants/likes/what they were willing to put up with? Probably not. I was willing to put up with the lag issues with your engine, I was even willing to put up your store, inflating prices in same, and your creating a false sense of immediate buying via your developers simply taking things out of the store, However, I am not willing to put up with gambling with real currency for pixels. And for the record, I was not the only one who left ESO high and dry, but I took my entire guild with me. Your industry seems replete in destroying your own industry with these things. I have spoken with my states AG offices and I am fully aware that there has been and is now a movement, via Gov't regulators, to now get involved in your industries practices with some litigation already been filed and more to come, using existing statutes that prohibit "online gambling" of any sort.




So what is our guild doing now, since ESO was the last AAA MMORPG out there without lockboxes? We're making our own game. I invite your marketing, developers, in fact anyone with an interest to check out exactly what your new competition is. Feel free to pass this invite along to whomever you deem fit as the invite is to your entire employee base. Go to www.XXXXXXXXXXXX. Grab an old copy of Star Wars Galaxies from ebay, other sites that are listed on our forums, and come enjoy the fun. All with no sub, no store, and I can certainly tell you with this server anyway, NEVER any lockboxes. ALL COMPLETELY FREE to the end user.




While we may be a little slower on additions to the game, you can see here that we will get the job done. XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXPatchNotes.html We don't have to develop housing and add it to the game, it's already there which we've added many more houses for our players to have a "CHOICE" of, some of them with crafting bonuses. And you can be assured that you'll never see deco items in a lockbox. All are crafter made to increase the in-game economy and replayability of this MMORPG.




And please don't sit back on your existing laurels of graphics and voice overs as these are being worked on as we speak also. XXXXXXXXXXlinkXXXXXXXXXXX for graphics and I happen to have a 32 track studio right outside my house so this server is kind of unique in that aspect. Our developers are currently involved with many aspects including modifying the client to accept voice-overs. It may be a little slow coming, but like all the other patch notes, it will get done and into the game.




Our small section of MMORPGs are a little unique also as our 9 independent servers are mostly open-sourse and sharing via GIT the fruits of our labor with the other servers. That ends up as being not limited to our specific 4 person dev team, but all the other 4-10 person devs teams that are out there with the other 9 servers in operation. So our team ends up probably as large in numbers as yours, all donating their time due to situations like this where AAA MMORPGS are no longer acceptable to our playerbase and all the others that are following your path(s).




This is what you and others in your industry have created. You are causing your own competition which by agreement with IP and code holders HAVE to be non-profit. Daybreak (formerly SOE) has not only embraced emulators, they are actively working with them. There are talks starting to take place on releasing the existing client code for sale, via the company who did it originally, so we're not even limited to people that can find the old disks after that takes place. BTP? Only that company doesn't have the cost of running servers and all their sales end up as pure profit over and above the cost of providing a download. There was a time when ZOS/Beth embraced and cashed in on this community as well. Skyrim held a large part of it's success and replayability via the "modding community" so you guys used free devs to increase your playerbase as well.




And while AAA Studios continue to "shoot themselves in the foot" via their own marketing plans and development teams, we end up in a situation that I, for one, never expected. Having to curse your actions and thank you for them at the same time. As your playerbase go down, ours go up.




If any of your dev/marketing team wants to see 1st hand what you have created, have them register on our forums with a name I should understand (as we have all the problems with spammers that I'm sure you do as well). And I will personally give them the nickel tour, including our non-public development forums.

*********
I thank Petyr and ZOS for their kind response. I have to admit I never expected one.

Elsonso

Negative: I have tested the crates, and I do not want this feature to be implemented in the game.

Mercutio wrote: »

I just want to say that this is the best post in the thread so far. I disagree with you about the timing of F2P but agree it is an inevitability. Other than that, 100% spot on, rational, and hyperbole-free. Kudos.

I have learned from ZOS. The phrase "a few months" can be anything from 3 months to years. I get to declare victory whenever they decide to do it.

Mercutio wrote: »

1) Make any Crown Crate Only Cosmetic available in the store six months later.

I think that "exclusive" Crown Crate items work better when they start with a brief one time only Crown Store appearance and then spend the rest of the life in Crown Crates. This gives people who do not want to gamble the opportunity to get items without Crown Crates, and also follows the same policy as all other limited offers. (Disclaimer: This should not be interpreted as an endorsement of Crown Crates)

Mercutio wrote: »

2) Implement an annual weekend where everything that has been released in the store or Crown Crates, except for items introduced in the past six months, is made available for purchase.

I find this to be an interesting idea. (Disclaimer: This should not be interpreted as an endorsement of Crown Crates)

Esquire1980g_ESO wrote: »

And while AAA Studios continue to "shoot themselves in the foot" via their own marketing plans and development teams, we end up in a situation that I, for one, never expected. Having to curse your actions and thank you for them at the same time. As your playerbase go down, ours go up.

My comment regarding this is that "AAA Studios" do not do things like this. For me, it is part of the definition. That definition might not be shared universally, but a AAA Studio should be capable of making money without measures like ZOS is taking with the Store, even if doing it for "fun". I do not consider ZOS to be a AAA Studio, no matter what they might think. I do not think they can make a AAA game, and ESO is not a AAA game. It is a very good game, but it is not a AAA game.

Esquire1980g_ESO

Negative: I have NOT tested the crates, and I dislike the idea/direction and/or I dislike what I have read.

lordrichter wrote: »

Mercutio wrote: »

I just want to say that this is the best post in the thread so far. I disagree with you about the timing of F2P but agree it is an inevitability. Other than that, 100% spot on, rational, and hyperbole-free. Kudos.

I have learned from ZOS. The phrase "a few months" can be anything from 3 months to years. I get to declare victory whenever they decide to do it.

Mercutio wrote: »

1) Make any Crown Crate Only Cosmetic available in the store six months later.

I think that "exclusive" Crown Crate items work better when they start with a brief one time only Crown Store appearance and then spend the rest of the life in Crown Crates. This gives people who do not want to gamble the opportunity to get items without Crown Crates, and also follows the same policy as all other limited offers. (Disclaimer: This should not be interpreted as an endorsement of Crown Crates)

Mercutio wrote: »

2) Implement an annual weekend where everything that has been released in the store or Crown Crates, except for items introduced in the past six months, is made available for purchase.

I find this to be an interesting idea. (Disclaimer: This should not be interpreted as an endorsement of Crown Crates)

Esquire1980g_ESO wrote: »

And while AAA Studios continue to "shoot themselves in the foot" via their own marketing plans and development teams, we end up in a situation that I, for one, never expected. Having to curse your actions and thank you for them at the same time. As your playerbase go down, ours go up.

My comment regarding this is that "AAA Studios" do not do things like this. For me, it is part of the definition. That definition might not be shared universally, but a AAA Studio should be capable of making money without measures like ZOS is taking with the Store, even if doing it for "fun". I do not consider ZOS to be a AAA Studio, no matter what they might think. I do not think they can make a AAA game, and ESO is not a AAA game. It is a very good game, but it is not a AAA game.

I have to admit that I /agree with you way more than I don't, but........, I would consider ZOS a AAA Studio.

It is true that this is their 1st MMORPG but they have some very seasoned vets in top positions. Some almost as long as Koster has been around. I would also consider ESO a AAA game. They have done some very good things in ESO. The skillpoint system, their raid system, open worlds (instead of hallways), etc, all of which I really liked and give them credit for. Story is pretty top-notch as well but I'm personally not one of those that believe story is the end all/be all of a good game and one that makes for ANY amount of retention. It takes end game and "living in the world" to create retention in player's minds (and wallets). It is amazing to me that these lockboxes defeat any and all of that notion of "living in the world" (as it takes a boat load of cash to keep up) aspect so they have to know what the result of their hard labor is going to be.

I'm also as sure that these seasoned dev vets know that what they are doing now is a mistake. They were around to watch all the other MMORPGs step on their own feet. They were around to watch the F2P games head to the dumper in the amounts of playerbase and have to increase pricing on the "whales" just to keep the servers turned on. I believe they know, all to well, what is the outcome of these deals really are. I would think that these guys are either getting overturned in the decision making process or they're in some sort of panic mode.

There has to be a reasoning that we're not aware of and they are not going to make us aware of any of it, either. For supposition, I would imagine that ESO is not living up to expectation(s) or they have some rather large balloon payments that are coming due quite quickly. All this marketing towards systems that do nothing except "the search for more money" seems like a bit of panic, to me anyway.

Sad to see this happen to another game but it's not the 1st I've said had so much potential but continues to not know their own playerbase. I believe you played Galaxies, under SOE, too, didn't you? I rode SWG down to the very end and I have no needs or wants to see that happen all over again and watch another game gasp for breath, for a few years, and finally take it's last.

Elsonso

Negative: I have tested the crates, and I do not want this feature to be implemented in the game.

Esquire1980g_ESO wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

Mercutio wrote: »

I just want to say that this is the best post in the thread so far. I disagree with you about the timing of F2P but agree it is an inevitability. Other than that, 100% spot on, rational, and hyperbole-free. Kudos.

I have learned from ZOS. The phrase "a few months" can be anything from 3 months to years. I get to declare victory whenever they decide to do it.

Mercutio wrote: »

1) Make any Crown Crate Only Cosmetic available in the store six months later.

I think that "exclusive" Crown Crate items work better when they start with a brief one time only Crown Store appearance and then spend the rest of the life in Crown Crates. This gives people who do not want to gamble the opportunity to get items without Crown Crates, and also follows the same policy as all other limited offers. (Disclaimer: This should not be interpreted as an endorsement of Crown Crates)

Mercutio wrote: »

2) Implement an annual weekend where everything that has been released in the store or Crown Crates, except for items introduced in the past six months, is made available for purchase.

I find this to be an interesting idea. (Disclaimer: This should not be interpreted as an endorsement of Crown Crates)

Esquire1980g_ESO wrote: »

And while AAA Studios continue to "shoot themselves in the foot" via their own marketing plans and development teams, we end up in a situation that I, for one, never expected. Having to curse your actions and thank you for them at the same time. As your playerbase go down, ours go up.

My comment regarding this is that "AAA Studios" do not do things like this. For me, it is part of the definition. That definition might not be shared universally, but a AAA Studio should be capable of making money without measures like ZOS is taking with the Store, even if doing it for "fun". I do not consider ZOS to be a AAA Studio, no matter what they might think. I do not think they can make a AAA game, and ESO is not a AAA game. It is a very good game, but it is not a AAA game.

I have to admit that I /agree with you way more than I don't, but........, I would consider ZOS a AAA Studio.

It is true that this is their 1st MMORPG but they have some very seasoned vets in top positions. Some almost as long as Koster has been around. I would also consider ESO a AAA game. They have done some very good things in ESO. The skillpoint system, their raid system, open worlds (instead of hallways), etc, all of which I really liked and give them credit for. Story is pretty top-notch as well but I'm personally not one of those that believe story is the end all/be all of a good game and one that makes for ANY amount of retention. It takes end game and "living in the world" to create retention in player's minds (and wallets). It is amazing to me that these lockboxes defeat any and all of that notion of "living in the world" (as it takes a boat load of cash to keep up) aspect so they have to know what the result of their hard labor is going to be.

I'm also as sure that these seasoned dev vets know that what they are doing now is a mistake. They were around to watch all the other MMORPGs step on their own feet. They were around to watch the F2P games head to the dumper in the amounts of playerbase and have to increase pricing on the "whales" just to keep the servers turned on. I believe they know, all to well, what is the outcome of these deals really are. I would think that these guys are either getting overturned in the decision making process or they're in some sort of panic mode.

There has to be a reasoning that we're not aware of and they are not going to make us aware of any of it, either. For supposition, I would imagine that ESO is not living up to expectation(s) or they have some rather large balloon payments that are coming due quite quickly. All this marketing towards systems that do nothing except "the search for more money" seems like a bit of panic, to me anyway.

Sad to see this happen to another game but it's not the 1st I've said had so much potential but continues to not know their own playerbase. I believe you played Galaxies, under SOE, too, didn't you? I rode SWG down to the very end and I have no needs or wants to see that happen all over again and watch another game gasp for breath, for a few years, and finally take it's last.

I will agree that they aspire to be a AAA studio, but as an MMO, ESO is not a AAA title, and ZOS is not a AAA studio.

They have the development team for it, yes. They really fell over and took a nap when it came to marketing this game. It is like they expected the game to sell itself, and now they are more interested in F2P marketing. They take shortcuts with development, preferring to build the game in-place, because it is cheaper to do that way. The game is buggy and has performance problems. They have long term problems that are so institutionalized that they are about ready to draw a pension. They dropped all pretense of having AAA quality support for the game, which is not to say that support is bad. It is not AAA.

GhostwalkerLD

Negative: I have tested the crates, and I do not want this feature to be implemented in the game.

lordrichter wrote: »

Esquire1980g_ESO wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

Mercutio wrote: »

I just want to say that this is the best post in the thread so far. I disagree with you about the timing of F2P but agree it is an inevitability. Other than that, 100% spot on, rational, and hyperbole-free. Kudos.

I have learned from ZOS. The phrase "a few months" can be anything from 3 months to years. I get to declare victory whenever they decide to do it.

Mercutio wrote: »

1) Make any Crown Crate Only Cosmetic available in the store six months later.

I think that "exclusive" Crown Crate items work better when they start with a brief one time only Crown Store appearance and then spend the rest of the life in Crown Crates. This gives people who do not want to gamble the opportunity to get items without Crown Crates, and also follows the same policy as all other limited offers. (Disclaimer: This should not be interpreted as an endorsement of Crown Crates)

Mercutio wrote: »

2) Implement an annual weekend where everything that has been released in the store or Crown Crates, except for items introduced in the past six months, is made available for purchase.

I find this to be an interesting idea. (Disclaimer: This should not be interpreted as an endorsement of Crown Crates)

Esquire1980g_ESO wrote: »

And while AAA Studios continue to "shoot themselves in the foot" via their own marketing plans and development teams, we end up in a situation that I, for one, never expected. Having to curse your actions and thank you for them at the same time. As your playerbase go down, ours go up.

My comment regarding this is that "AAA Studios" do not do things like this. For me, it is part of the definition. That definition might not be shared universally, but a AAA Studio should be capable of making money without measures like ZOS is taking with the Store, even if doing it for "fun". I do not consider ZOS to be a AAA Studio, no matter what they might think. I do not think they can make a AAA game, and ESO is not a AAA game. It is a very good game, but it is not a AAA game.

I have to admit that I /agree with you way more than I don't, but........, I would consider ZOS a AAA Studio.

It is true that this is their 1st MMORPG but they have some very seasoned vets in top positions. Some almost as long as Koster has been around. I would also consider ESO a AAA game. They have done some very good things in ESO. The skillpoint system, their raid system, open worlds (instead of hallways), etc, all of which I really liked and give them credit for. Story is pretty top-notch as well but I'm personally not one of those that believe story is the end all/be all of a good game and one that makes for ANY amount of retention. It takes end game and "living in the world" to create retention in player's minds (and wallets). It is amazing to me that these lockboxes defeat any and all of that notion of "living in the world" (as it takes a boat load of cash to keep up) aspect so they have to know what the result of their hard labor is going to be.

I'm also as sure that these seasoned dev vets know that what they are doing now is a mistake. They were around to watch all the other MMORPGs step on their own feet. They were around to watch the F2P games head to the dumper in the amounts of playerbase and have to increase pricing on the "whales" just to keep the servers turned on. I believe they know, all to well, what is the outcome of these deals really are. I would think that these guys are either getting overturned in the decision making process or they're in some sort of panic mode.

There has to be a reasoning that we're not aware of and they are not going to make us aware of any of it, either. For supposition, I would imagine that ESO is not living up to expectation(s) or they have some rather large balloon payments that are coming due quite quickly. All this marketing towards systems that do nothing except "the search for more money" seems like a bit of panic, to me anyway.

Sad to see this happen to another game but it's not the 1st I've said had so much potential but continues to not know their own playerbase. I believe you played Galaxies, under SOE, too, didn't you? I rode SWG down to the very end and I have no needs or wants to see that happen all over again and watch another game gasp for breath, for a few years, and finally take it's last.

I will agree that they aspire to be a AAA studio, but as an MMO, ESO is not a AAA title, and ZOS is not a AAA studio.

They have the development team for it, yes. They really fell over and took a nap when it came to marketing this game. It is like they expected the game to sell itself, and now they are more interested in F2P marketing. They take shortcuts with development, preferring to build the game in-place, because it is cheaper to do that way. The game is buggy and has performance problems. They have long term problems that are so institutionalized that they are about ready to draw a pension. They dropped all pretense of having AAA quality support for the game, which is not to say that support is bad. It is not AAA.

Yeah, that is something that completely boggled my mind the more I noticed it. They have a good game here, a really good game.... but they don't MARKET it like one, and instead seem to have treated it more and more like a niche game, and now like yet another F2P MMO to add to the pile. And considering the way they've treated longstanding problems with the game, as you mentioned, they just seem to have shrugged and went "Oh well, too late now, you get what you get." Makes me wonder how long until this game becomes the Elder Scrolls version of Star Trek Online, complete with constant lock-box development but no real game development except on special occasions.

DYSEQTA

Negative: I have NOT tested the crates, and I dislike the idea/direction and/or I dislike what I have read.

GhostwalkerLD wrote: »

Yeah, that is something that completely boggled my mind the more I noticed it. They have a good game here, a really good game.... but they don't MARKET it like one...And considering the way they've treated longstanding problems with the game, as you mentioned, they just seem to have shrugged and went "Oh well, too late now, you get what you get."...

Addictive game genre + minimum viable product + cash-cow milking apparatus. This is the reality current online gaming business models at the current time. It needs to be stopped and the only ones that can do that are the consumers.

Consumers can only put a stop to it by standing up against it, and that means doing a bit of work to ensure your country's consumer protection agencies, media, and even politicians are made aware of this consumer and law abusive behaviour running rampant right under their noses.

Valethar

Negative: I have tested the crates, and I do not want this feature to be implemented in the game.

They aren't doing this for the 'players', they're doing it because no matter how distasteful the practice is, there are enough whales (I call them sheep) that will run to the store to pay for overpriced recolors and useless filler items (consumables, etc...) for the remote chance that they'll get a shiny.

Sadly, it's the marketing mantra for the current generation of online games. They know they can fleece the sheep, and that they'll have a steady supply, so they aren't going to pass on the opportunity to do so.

The white knight crowd will scream some nonsense about 'content' and 'programmers getting paid'. Everyone else knows better. Gambling boxes don't introduce anything in the way of meaningful content, and last I looked, ZOS wasn't firing people or having trouble paying the bills.

Better to introduce the items in crates to the store itself at reasonable prices, and make the store an actual store. Unfortunately, greed and common sense rarely exist on the same plane.

Kalante

Other: My feelings are more complex than the above sentiments. (Comment below.)

i dont really care. ill never buy one.

Elsonso

Negative: I have tested the crates, and I do not want this feature to be implemented in the game.

Valethar wrote: »

They aren't doing this for the 'players', they're doing it because no matter how distasteful the practice is, there are enough whales (I call them sheep) that will run to the store to pay for overpriced recolors and useless filler items (consumables, etc...) for the remote chance that they'll get a shiny.

Sadly, it's the marketing mantra for the current generation of online games. They know they can fleece the sheep, and that they'll have a steady supply, so they aren't going to pass on the opportunity to do so.

The white knight crowd will scream some nonsense about 'content' and 'programmers getting paid'. Everyone else knows better. Gambling boxes don't introduce anything in the way of meaningful content, and last I looked, ZOS wasn't firing people or having trouble paying the bills.

Better to introduce the items in crates to the store itself at reasonable prices, and make the store an actual store. Unfortunately, greed and common sense rarely exist on the same plane.

Just remember that 75% of the people reading this will basically agree with you before they finish the first sentence. The comment about white knights is really unnecessary. The chances of one of them wandering by and reading what you wrote is not too much better than the chance of getting an Apex mount from a Crown Crate.

And... I am caught today wondering what the LAUNCHER would have been like in One Tamriel if they had considered it even half as important to the game as the Crown Crates.

GhostwalkerLD

Negative: I have tested the crates, and I do not want this feature to be implemented in the game.

lordrichter wrote: »

Valethar wrote: »

They aren't doing this for the 'players', they're doing it because no matter how distasteful the practice is, there are enough whales (I call them sheep) that will run to the store to pay for overpriced recolors and useless filler items (consumables, etc...) for the remote chance that they'll get a shiny.

Sadly, it's the marketing mantra for the current generation of online games. They know they can fleece the sheep, and that they'll have a steady supply, so they aren't going to pass on the opportunity to do so.

The white knight crowd will scream some nonsense about 'content' and 'programmers getting paid'. Everyone else knows better. Gambling boxes don't introduce anything in the way of meaningful content, and last I looked, ZOS wasn't firing people or having trouble paying the bills.

Better to introduce the items in crates to the store itself at reasonable prices, and make the store an actual store. Unfortunately, greed and common sense rarely exist on the same plane.

Just remember that 75% of the people reading this will basically agree with you before they finish the first sentence. The comment about white knights is really unnecessary. The chances of one of them wandering by and reading what you wrote is not too much better than the chance of getting an Apex mount from a Crown Crate.

And... I am caught today wondering what the LAUNCHER would have been like in One Tamriel if they had considered it even half as important to the game as the Crown Crates.

I'm glad I wasn't the only person thinking that.... where was this focus and quality before?? If they would put that kind of dedication into the REST OF THE GAME and not just focus it all into polishing these crates, their interface, and items to be so pretty, maybe they wouldn't NEED to resort to these crates to make a profit to begin with?

.. of course, that still wouldn't stop them and I'm confident we'd be dealing with the RNG crates no matter what, but still..

TheValkyn

Negative: I have tested the crates, and I do not want this feature to be implemented in the game.

These crates will make a ton of money. A company has a budgeted amount of resources. As a business person, that has no clue about video games or what players want to play, would you allocate more resources that keep pumping massive gambling funds into your company or would you focus on making a "good" game?

This is the main problem. They will spend more resources making crown crate items than they will actual gameplay elements. EG: SWTOR, DCUO etc.

You need to remember who the game director is. He is not a gamer and he has none of your interests in mind. Remember when he sold us the pile that the game would be a sub only game and how he really believed in that model? Well, guess what? That was a lie to bait you into buying the game only to switch it less than a year later.

Valethar

Negative: I have tested the crates, and I do not want this feature to be implemented in the game.

lordrichter wrote: »

And... I am caught today wondering what the LAUNCHER would have been like in One Tamriel if they had considered it even half as important to the game as the Crown Crates.

Indeed.

Unfortunately for the players, the launcher doesn't offer the opportunity to generate revenue, and the crates do. Since the bean counters actually make all the decisions in game companies these days (an interesting irony, given that the accountants are actually a expense item, not a revenue generator themselves!) we're stuck with decisions such as these.

One would hope that the Dev team would see threads such as this and actually do the right thing, but at this point money has been spent, and the suits and bean counters won't allow it.

Elsonso

Negative: I have tested the crates, and I do not want this feature to be implemented in the game.

Valethar wrote: »

One would hope that the Dev team would see threads such as this and actually do the right thing, but at this point money has been spent, and the suits and bean counters won't allow it.

They (the devs) see them. My guess is that they nod, sigh, and go back to work.

Edit: The people who make the decisions also see them. They chuckle and go back to thinking about new Crown Store items.

WhiteCoatSyndrome

Negative: I have NOT tested the crates, and I dislike the idea/direction and/or I dislike what I have read.

lordrichter wrote: »

And... I am caught today wondering what the LAUNCHER would have been like in One Tamriel if they had considered it even half as important to the game as the Crown Crates.

Second this. There were so many times I missed an announcement in the launcher when it first came out because it got buried under older announcements. And actually having a launcher for the 64 bit version (rather than having to jump over to the 32 bit every time there's an update or get the outdated client error) would be nice.

Vaoh

Negative: I have NOT tested the crates, and I dislike the idea/direction and/or I dislike what I have read.

wayfarerx wrote: »

ZOS_MattFiror wrote:

The Elder Scrolls Online was designed and developed to be a premium experience: hundreds of hours of gameplay, tons of depth and features, professional customer support – and a commitment to have ongoing content at regular intervals after launch.”

Source.

That's why I joined the beta, that's why I'm still here today. One of my favorite franchises, a premium experience, an escape from all the F2P-cash-shop-gamble-box nonsense that plagues gaming.

And yet here we are.

Anyone who's played an MMO before knows that, eventually, the developer will jump the shark and screw the game up and it will be time to move on. I'm happy that ESO has gone this long without turning me away, but I had hoped I would be here much longer. There is still so much of Tamriel to explore.

However this last week has been the first time in three years that I've actually made plans for what to do if I need to cancel my sub. I've got some crowns saved up, I could pick up the existing DLCs and possibly a couple more. I could still log in and hang out with friends. I could live without the crafting bag. I could take my money and start working through the backlog of games that have come out recently that I skipped or didn't play much because I was playing ESO.

I don't want to leave, I like it here, but it's going to be really hard justifying sending money to a company that intends to base it's business model off impulsive sales to uninformed customers. It's not honest. I'm not sure how I'm supposed to tell my son "No, those F2P cash shop games are a scam, they will only rip you off," and then turn around and log into ESO: Ethics Violation Unlimited.

We'll see how it goes in the end, but I'm concerned that this is the end for me.

@ZOS_MattFiror ^^^^pay attention

GhostwalkerLD

Negative: I have tested the crates, and I do not want this feature to be implemented in the game.

One can only hope that everyone pays attention... @ZOS_GinaBruno , @ZOS_MattFiror , et al. But the fact that we still have yet to get a dev response in this thread, and we never had a real dev response in our OTHER Crown Crate thread which got well over 100+ pages... well.. I'm not holding my breath.

Elsonso

Negative: I have tested the crates, and I do not want this feature to be implemented in the game.

GhostwalkerLD wrote: »

One can only hope that everyone pays attention... @ZOS_GinaBruno , @ZOS_MattFiror , et al. But the fact that we still have yet to get a dev response in this thread, and we never had a real dev response in our OTHER Crown Crate thread which got well over 100+ pages... well.. I'm not holding my breath.

They. Have. Nothing. To. Say.