So they did it, they screwed up crafting material collecting

driosketch

Well it took them a while to get Orsinium nodes right. They used to be craft level only, and 9 out 10 were still void rather than ruby tier. I see they are leaving a 25% chance for the old zone scale tier recipes in. They could do a similar thing, 50% level, 25% craft, and 25% zone.

Starter plus first zones from the three alliances would be iron, second zones steel, and so on till ebony in the fifth zone. Every other zone would be ruby, just remove/convert the other sub CP 150 mats. We are getting to the point, with each cap raise, to have the first 100 CP blown through.

So for example, a new character would find 100% maple in Glenumbra. A level 20 with no craft would find 75% oak in Desaan, 25% maple. And a max crafter, CP10+ character would find 100% ruby ash in Craglorn.

Also, rework ruby so it's 10 mats every 10 CP, so there's enough of a sink to give them some value. And maybe let players continue to craft higher levels with lower materials, make a 160CP iron armor piece if they like, though it would cost a crazy amount of ore.

OrphanHelgen

when did you ever go to a low level zone with your high level character and farmed mats?

Holycannoli

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

when did you ever go to a low level zone with your high level character and farmed mats?

Every once in a while when one of my alts needed a gear upgrade.

VerboseQuips

I am wondering whether it will still be possible to get provisioning recipes of any level. I am a collector of everything so I'd like to be able to finish my collection.

Banana

I don't think I've ever farmed low level mats. If I needed them id just buy them. I like the change

Holycannoli

Banana wrote: »

I don't think I've ever farmed low level mats. If I needed them id just buy them. I like the change

You were able to buy them because people were able to find them in the world. They won't be able to anymore.

smacx250

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

when did you ever go to a low level zone with your high level character and farmed mats?

Regularly. My main crafts for a bunch of leveling characters that otherwise don't want or need to deal with crafting or farming mats. My main can (currently) gather mats much quicker and more efficiently than the characters being crafted for - it is high level so it doesn't need to waste time fighting, has CPs that increase node return, and skills to increase movement speed. It has everything unlocked so it can go anywhere to get whatever it needs. It can farm ahead of the character's lvl so that it can craft gear at the mat inflection point for the greatest efficiency. This is actually my #1 issue with One Tamriel. I'm actively farming low lvl zones now to build up a stock for the transition. I *hope* that the writ change will be able to sustain what I need once it becomes live, but I can't wait for that mechanism to build up a stock for an immediate need - the RNG will make it take forever (months, in the case of clothier).

Runefang

Definitely looking forward to this change hitting the consoles. Will make farming mats for my 160cp gear easy.

STEVIL

Qbiken wrote: »

I don´t want to rely on lowlevel players to get the gear I want. I want 100% control of that.
.

Qbiken wrote: »

So relying on RNG to get the mats i want if doing serveys....rng isn´t that appriciated by eso-players is my experience

@Qbiken

With every major and even most medium changes to the game, THE WAY THINGS WERE DONE YESTERDAY changes for some. Everytime they alter skills, add new sets, change traits - someone, somewhere has to alter how they do things.
Happens all the time in a living game.

Doesn't mean folks cannot get the same or similar results or be as good... just they o=ften have to accomplish it differently.

So, for those who have a very strict set of how they do thinsg now, they may have to change things a bit.

By the time one adds in the sum total of the following PREFERENCES for exactly how they want their crafting to work the number of systems that support it all becomes rather small.
ALL MY CHARACTER ARE MAXED CRAFTERS
I WANT TO FARM LOWER MATS
I DONT WANT ANY RNG JUST CERTAINTY
I DONT WANT TO BUY THEM.

The overall change being put in place will help the vast number of players in the games in the new world.

In the new Tamriel there is no longer any link between location and level.
in the new Tamriel there is frequently cases where character skp over many tiers of "materials" needed.
In the new Tamriel every zone is built for not just one-and-done passerby play like it used to be, but for ongoing repeatable use and with reasons to return and replay the content because of the way sets are deployed.
In the new Tamriel, the "population" of new materials is linked to and determined by the charcater in play because the mats acquired are linked to the characters acquiring them, tieing the supply to the demand in an ongoing smooth way.
In the new Tamriel, all of these things fit together into a greater whole.

if that means certain character bukds and activites will change to adapt to the new world, then its just like every time a set changes or traits change or a thing gets balanced and the meta shifts... a few people adjust but everyone gets better served by the final product.

In general, in my experience, when the mats being harvested are RELEVANT to the character, players harvest more. many player i know of when they got sent due to quests to zones with "off scale mats" they didn't bother to harvest them at all even though they harvested all the time in casual play in zones where they were able to get "relevant" mats.

Some wont be a happy, no matter what ZOS does or doesn't do, but changing how you harvest or acquire lower tier mats in a few cases is a lot less of a burden than say those folks who "had to" recraft all gold high end gear after trait changes a few months ago.

IIRC the hue and cry screwed it up game before last over was SORC SHIELDS AND SURGE NERF - but the sorc class did not die, wasn't removed for lack of play etc.

IIRC the last hue and cry end of game was poisons especially when they got a 30% to 60% boost mid-PTS - only now to see poisons hardly mentioned ever and the game still running.

IMO the next one (as i respond to the thread titled "So they did it, they screwed up crafting material collecting" ) will be the death of crafting hue and cry.

This direction... i agree with the other poster, is good for the overall game play.

Some wont like it - as is always the case.

Day three of playtest and the sun is still shining.

PS: i still believe they SHOULD remove the lower limit of crafting materials tie to gear level, allowing you to keep clicking the "-" when you craft gear to make lower level gear from mats than you can now. This is similar to what they did with runestones (removing the upper limit) and IMO suits the more open world play than the narrow range of levels tied to each material does. i dont think its absolutely necessary or broken if they dont but feel it would serve the world better if they do. keep the same minimum amount of mats spent but allow lower results for the narrow niche edge cases.

Teridaxus

So eu toons copied over...
I don't own wrothgar and crafting writs still requiere void materials while i only seem to be able to farm rubedite everywhere instead of a split of 50 50.

STEVIL

mzapkeneb18_ESO wrote: »

So eu toons copied over...
I don't own wrothgar and crafting writs still requiere void materials while i only seem to be able to farm rubedite everywhere instead of a split of 50 50.

Recommend you report it in PTS or on PTS forum for other misc systems official thread.

Teridaxus

STEVIL wrote: »

mzapkeneb18_ESO wrote: »

So eu toons copied over...
I don't own wrothgar and crafting writs still requiere void materials while i only seem to be able to farm rubedite everywhere instead of a split of 50 50.

Recommend you report it in PTS or on PTS forum for other misc systems official thread.

Huh this thread was in the general forums last time i checked.
I guess they moved it.

Kelces

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

when did you ever go to a low level zone with your high level character and farmed mats?

I did, just yesterday. Who wouldn't? Your riding speed, stamina and carrying capacity are probably far better than that of your new character.

Banana wrote: »

I don't think I've ever farmed low level mats. If I needed them id just buy them. I like the change

You certainly won't be happy about the prices though...

GilGalad

mzapkeneb18_ESO wrote: »

So eu toons copied over...
I don't own wrothgar and crafting writs still requiere void materials while i only seem to be able to farm rubedite everywhere instead of a split of 50 50.

Steal stuff, launder and deconstruct it. There you have your voidstone, nightwood, etc. you can easily farm 3 stacks in 10 minutes. Also works with low level mats, if you have a low level char, since stolen goods scale with the character level up to CP 140.

disintegr8

I suspect that if you do have a need for lower level materials, you would just reset your skills so that your CP160 character is say level 1 blacksmith and he can go and harvest you starter zone for a while. From my understanding he would be picking up 50/50 iron ore/rubedite ore.

If you want to stock up on next level materials, simply put another point into his blacksmith line and go harvest that level area (or even the same area) and so on and so forth. It just means that you can't simply go out and do it spontaneously but have to maybe plan a little better and think about it.

It would be easier if you could pick and choose which skills you want to respec, like you can with champion points, as having to reallocate all of them on every respec is a pain but at least it is a way round the issue. It is another reason to have alts that don't need to be leveled up in crafting all of the time.

Hopefully the change will put more lower level material in the market place as it has really dried up since the introduction of crafting bags. I know I have 600 or more of most crafting materials and could not have done that without the crafting bag, presumably other have collected them as well which has stopped them coming into the economy.

Piedpiperman

I with agree with Holicanoli completely!

They have destroyed the crafting system all because you cannot collect the lower level materials you need to craft lower level armor and weapons.

The only way is to make a character, run it through to level 50, collecting resources as you go, destroy it and then go through that again.

STEVIL

Piedpiperman wrote: »

I with agree with Holicanoli completely!

They have destroyed the crafting system all because you cannot collect the lower level materials you need to craft lower level armor and weapons.

The only way is to make a character, run it through to level 50, collecting resources as you go, destroy it and then go through that again.

if that alone destroyed the crafting system, then it was sure a lot more fragile than i ever saw it as.

:-)
Mid level mats being acquired in different ways than they were before... thats not the biggest weakening to equipment crafting... that would be predictable, scaled set drops everywhere and scaled gear drops for decon everywhere which just flat out makes getting crafted equip at all much much much less important - especially for those developing characters.

In casual play thru a zone a player will see six delves, three dolmens, and about four-five major quest points and all of them will spawn set pieces most of the time. Add in a smattering of chests and thieves troves and treasure maps and without even trying to farm they will find between 15-20 set pieces divided between three types scaled to their levels at the time of acquisition and with jewels possible. (NOTE TO SELF: Gotta run the main questline and mages and fighters now to see if those items are set-i-fied.) gets even better if they actually take some time to repeat content or run the dungeons. the logic behind paying someone else to far mats for me at these transitional levels, to craft gear that as soon as i level i am finding better in drops, burn quality items etc for gear that i will outlevel quickly... well... it wont take folks long to realize crafted sets you get from other folks (who farmed those mats for you) isnt the thing you do as much anymore.

Rune_Relic

Agree with OP.

I dont buy and sell. I am fully independant....or try to be.
I have 1 main crafter who spend all points and skills focused in to crafting.
I have alts that leave the crafting to the main crafter so they can allocate skill points into the areas they need.
I require 0 gold and can remain free from all the trading hassle.
At least I could.

The whole point of improvements is to INCREASE options/freedom not take them away
1T has taken away my ability to be self sufficient with 0 gold.

Awaits the ....but MMO crap.
I also spent much time crafting for others who wanted 8-9 trait low level gear (FOC) for use or decon.
If I have surplus stuff...and friends with no gold need it ...I craft free goods.
So dont even go there.

I cant decon low level gear with 0 gold value as they return nothing.
You cant be awarded low level gear drops at max level for decon.
You cant go to a specific zone and get mats of a desired level.
All you can do now is buy....so my independence has been stolen.

Now I have to play the 'buy/sell' game instead of just the 'crafting' game
Writ RNG doesnt give me anything but a chance of what I may or may not need.

STEVIL

Rune_Relic wrote: »

Agree with OP.

I dont buy and sell. I am fully independant....or try to be.
I have 1 main crafter who spend all points and skills focused in to crafting.
I have alts that leave the crafting to the main crafter so they can allocate skill points into the areas they need.
I require 0 gold and can remain free from all the trading hassle.
At least I could.

The whole point of improvements is to INCREASE options/freedom not take them away
1T has taken away my ability to be self sufficient with 0 gold.

Awaits the ....but MMO crap.
I also spent much time crafting for others who wanted 8-9 trait low level gear (FOC) for use or decon.
If I have surplus stuff...and friends with no gold need it ...I craft free goods.
So dont even go there.

I cant decon low level gear with 0 gold value as they return nothing.
You cant be awarded low level gear drops at max level for decon.
You cant go to a specific zone and get mats of a desired level.
All you can do now is buy....so my independence has been stolen.

Now I have to play the 'buy/sell' game instead of just the 'crafting' game
Writ RNG doesnt give me anything but a chance of what I may or may not need.

First bold, your ability to be independent with 0 gold and now commerce has not been taken away.
if by "my" you mean your main character crafter they can harvest anything they need anywhere anytime. gear drops, set drops etc always useful. 'Nuff said.

if by "my" you mean all your characters, that crafting for your alts bit, the alts routine casual play harvest even if only drops, gear always at their level now easily gain the mats needed and gear needed for decon sufficient for anything short of excessive recrafting. just in routine quest play my decon has been running like it never has because all the gear is relevent to someone's levels. Even casual harvesting now produces tons of mats. (Now yeah you might shift the "when i craft" a bit... but that is not lost functionality just altered functionality and every time there is a major change to the game someones functionality changes.)

if by "my" you mean your crafter, your alts and however many others you have who need yo to craft for them and for you to provide the mats, the demand for crafted sets is going way down with the scaling set drops, the casual harvest of decon-worthy gear is going up and now even with just casual play and harvest their need for you to provide mats is gonna go way down. heck, as i have said before, the entire "desirability" of crafted sets during the development levels is very much diminished by the scaled set drops flooding into inventories from just routine questing, delving etc.

The independence of the vast majority of character in play is going UP and in a big way precisely because of the things you and others are complaining about.

"The whole point of improvements is to INCREASE options/freedom not take them away"

No.

The whole point of improvements and updates is to make the game work better. Sometimes for the gam,e to work better, some previous ways to get things done have to change. happens most every time they do an update.

and every time there is someone here or there who yells and screams and preaches doom of the game or the sub-game and so on and so forth... and every time... after a short bit in play once the transitions work out... it moves on to be seen as "yeah, overall this works."

Thing about this time is the crafters aren't looking at "need to spend gazillions to regold a new type of gear" just chaning operations.

Like i have said, i think they still need some adjustments... easiest is to remove the lower cap for mat use... so basically every node your master crafter ever harvests will be useful for crafting any level gear for you, for you alt or for anyone.

But some people seem to like having many inventory slots consumed so... if that isn't sufficient... they can also add farms/mines in select areas where you can "harvest" lower tier mats but leave the totalit of the nodes scaling in tact.

they already added lower level packs into writ payouts.

But by far IMO the biggest impact to crafting for equip is the devaluation of it in general by the increase in drop-set availability and variety. its just not as crucial to have these crafted sets during development periods where they will be obsolete very quickly compared to the next drop set you find at a higher level.

its a double whammy - demand for crafted sets in the developing levels is going down and gear drops and nodes will provide more than sufficient mats for what crafting is chosen anyway.

IMO the biggest issue is not how can you change up things to keep mats for crafting lower level gear... but more like you wont be asked to craft as much at that level and they will have their own mats - or gear to decon. crafter characters who spent a lot of time crafting gear for developing characters likely need to pick-up a hobby to help fill that soon-to-be-free time. I hear macrame is quite relaxing.

hingarthuub17_ESO

What a ridiculous change. So my master level crafter, who I spent the time and effort in leveling up, unlearns how to farm mats because of my level? What master level ANYTHING loses their abilities to do anything in their chosen field?

I honestly don't understand the rationale behind this. This seems to be one of the more uninspired changes I've recently seen.

Please .. just fix this.

STEVIL

hingarthuub17_ESO wrote: »

What a ridiculous change. So my master level crafter, who I spent the time and effort in leveling up, unlearns how to farm mats because of my level? What master level ANYTHING loses their abilities to do anything in their chosen field?

I honestly don't understand the rationale behind this. This seems to be one of the more uninspired changes I've recently seen.

Please .. just fix this.

how would you feel, @hingarthuub17_ESO, about a click box under your crafting skill that let you set which tier you wanted to harvest. So your master crafter could set it to like tier 6 under cloth if you wanted to farm kresh, get light armor drops at chap-10 for decon, harvest surveys at kresh level etc?

Set to your max by default but allow you to change each craft individually when you wish.

Would that be a good enough fix?

hingarthuub17_ESO

That sounds like a wonderful idea.

smacx250

hingarthuub17_ESO wrote: »

That sounds like a wonderful idea.

Credit to @Dominoid for the original suggestion:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/3334130/#Comment_3334130

Holycannoli

smacx250 wrote: »

hingarthuub17_ESO wrote: »

That sounds like a wonderful idea.

Credit to @Dominoid for the original suggestion:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/3334130/#Comment_3334130

and I responded that same day that it's the best suggestion I've heard yet. If they do it soon I may even log in before 2017.

DomesticatedKagouti

Yeah, this is ridiculous. I'm a roleplayer. part of what I do is use my master crafter to make costumes for all sorts of lower level characters, both for friends and for myself, in a variety of styles. The fact that I have to use valuable spaces to create and destroy harvesters is absolutely ridiculous. 50/50 drop rate for character level/former zone level mats would be just fine, if one can't pick and choose what level of material drops.

bryanhaas

Holycannoli wrote: »

All harvest nodes now scale to your combat level or applicable crafting passive rank.

So now our high level, max level crafters can't collect the materials needed to craft lower level gear. This is exactly what I was afraid of. Your blacksmith is cp531 and 50 blacksmithing? He's never, ever going to be able to collect lower level ore/ingots again. You have a new character you're leveling and want your blacksmith to make him new heavy armor and weapons as levels? He has to collect the ore himself, which possibly means by the time he's collected enough for a full set he may be ready for the next tier. You're probably better off just skipping it all and leveling him straight to 50; it's not like he will need the gear anyway since he will be OP battle scaled.

You want to buy the ingots instead? Good luck, nobody is going to have any for sale. They will become extremely rare.

You want to craft gear for newer players in your guild? You're screwed. You can't collect what they need, they have to. And they only have a limited window where they can, because once they level past that material they'll never be able to get it again.

There was no need for this change. Crafters can't collect resources they used to be able to collect just because they leveled? Wtf kind of crafting system forever locks out the previous lower level resources like that? I'll give you the answer: a lousy kind.

This was OK for Orsinium because we still had the old world to collect resources in. This does not work for the entire world though. There are some very interesting changes in One Tamriel but between this lousy change and the fact that dungeon and trial gear will be bind on pickup, I question if I want to remain here.

(Wtf with dungeon gear not being sellable anymore? Wtf?)

The writs will drop a previous tier of mats when no survey is dropped so the mats will be available although at a higher price. In the end it will probably all balance out the prices from rudebite to iron. maybe 7 to 10 k for a stack of either.

PS4_ZeColmeia

I know the sky is falling and all but that's why you do writs, or the lowbie will have to farm their own mats (20 minutes of stealing and you're done).

Master crafter here and I'm much happier with the 1t system

STEVIL

PS4_ZeColmeia wrote: »

I know the sky is falling and all but that's why you do writs, or the lowbie will have to farm their own mats (20 minutes of stealing and you're done).

Master crafter here and I'm much happier with the 1t system

and yep.

Also, lowbies get lotsa drops at level that can decon etc or set drops that can be worn.

Hluill

So my max-level is going up a Champion-Point Tier soon, a new tier of mats. When she hits this new CP, I won't have enough materials to make her gear. My crafter is a lower level, but on a higher tier crafting. I want the materials BEFORE. If the gear is just two CPS off, my character loses almost ten-percent on damage, which is really interesting because my lower-levels are out damaging her with worse gear.

The wits are ridiculous. They're on another tier too.

The Guild Traders are useless, I went to a dozen different ones and only got fifty ingots for way too much gold.

I have run into this issue several times. This new node tiering has made it worse. I need a RELIABLE source for materials. I haven't found one.

STEVIL

Hluill wrote: »

So my max-level is going up a Champion-Point Tier soon, a new tier of mats. When she hits this new CP, I won't have enough materials to make her gear. My crafter is a lower level, but on a higher tier crafting. I want the materials BEFORE. If the gear is just two CPS off, my character loses almost ten-percent on damage, which is really interesting because my lower-levels are out damaging her with worse gear.

The wits are ridiculous. They're on another tier too.

The Guild Traders are useless, I went to a dozen different ones and only got fifty ingots for way too much gold.

I have run into this issue several times. This new node tiering has made it worse. I need a RELIABLE source for materials. I haven't found one.

Actually a while back i started a different way of doing things. i tried it in anticipation of 1t and have continued it since with developing characters after 1t and it works great.

OLD WAY: As soon as someone reaches new tier, craft gear for them at the new tier. So at lvl 16 get them level 16 crafted gear.

NEW WAY: As someone reaches the end of a tier, use the mats they harvested in casual play all along that tier to craft them new gear for the top of tier. So at lvl 14 i craft level 14 gear for them. That level 14 gear and the now upcoming drop-sets serve them thru the next tier. as they gather mats for regear at end of that one, etc etc. (Problem was the mats gathered and deconned as you go thru the level were basically wasted unless you had other chars coming up or others to craft for.)

With this small change to my preior method of operating, i find it optimizes the changes from 1T and integrated the new flow of mats, the new surge in levelled drop sets and the ongoing drop-gear and scraps for deconning to basically keep the characters fully geared and very amazingly efficiently and economically. Now much fewer wasted mats when you are done - at least so far. i as i progress the developing chars further and "tiers" take more time it might well be that i need less and less crafted anyway.

Liike always happens when a change is made with an update, some "how i did things yesterday" change and new "how i do things now" come to the forefront as players adapt to the living, evolving MMO.

Happens every time.